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Messages - Rama Set

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1
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: A question to our resident Brexiteer
« on: January 12, 2020, 11:04:00 PM »
I guess you missed the part where it was a hypothetical scenario.

A nonsensical hypothetical scenario is just as worthless as a nonsensical but actual scenario.

Thanks for your super valuable input.

2
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: A question to our resident Brexiteer
« on: January 12, 2020, 09:35:10 PM »
I guess you missed the part where it was a hypothetical scenario.

3
I was saying that China were being doofuses for feeling entitled not to learn from terrible mistakes.

4
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: A question to our resident Brexiteer
« on: January 12, 2020, 05:35:07 AM »
So Brexit can be a mistake in the same way that electing HRC could be. Got it.
Honouring Brexit isn't a mistake. That was the will of the people. Nothing else matters.

Then why would HRC be a wrong that needs righting? She was the will of the people. I’m having trouble reconciling your positions.

5
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: January 11, 2020, 09:24:23 PM »

I’ve been thinking about this and I may be being unreasonable, so help me out if I am, but Trump’s “victory” came at a cost of approximately 200 human lives. A genuine tragedy in almost every other context. Most of those lives were taken in direct response to Trump assassinating, probably illegally according to international laws, maybe American too, a general who is largely replaceable. Trump admitted the impeachment partially motivated the act and the rest of the motivation is not very strongly justified at this time. The whole circus seems unnecessary and only makes sense in a way that props up narratives rather than a utilitarian need. If I am right, and please tell me why I’m not, then this seems less a win and more an abhorrent charade.
Where did Trump admit impeachment motivated the taking out of Suleimaini?

So Trump didn't to a media outlet but Trump associates say that was the case as reported by the WSJ.

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Further, the Iranians admitted they are the ones who fired the missile at the plane.

I know.

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How in the world do you lay that on Trump?
I am not saying it was Trump's fault.  What I said and am saying now is that the whole episode cost a lot of lives and for anyone to claim it was a victory isn't making sense to me.  I am open to hearing why others think it was a victory though.

6
I remember reading a quote from the chinese equivalent of Minister of the Environment in the early 2000s, around the time when they were pushing to get a refridgerator in the home of everyone in china.  He was asked about why they weren't learning from the mistakes made by western nations when it came to pollution and he basically said that they were entitled to make the same mistakes that the west made.  With a mentality like that its not hard to understand why change is slow and often painful for humans.
I think he was probably saying "you knew and made those 'mistakes' anyway because of the economic advantages and we're not going to hobble ourselves either".

We could all stop using cars tomorrow ... but we're not going to are we?

At the time they were talking about using fridges that emit CFCs... so no, it wasn't what you were saying.

7
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: A question to our resident Brexiteer
« on: January 11, 2020, 08:35:00 PM »
So Brexit can be a mistake in the same way that electing HRC could be. Got it.

8
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: January 11, 2020, 08:33:37 PM »
Looks like Trump got this one right...

Still #Bernie2020

Got what right?

His deterrence foreign policy approach to Iran.

How is it right?

Deterrence has been established and there isn't a war.

I’ve been thinking about this and I may be being unreasonable, so help me out if I am, but Trump’s “victory” came at a cost of approximately 200 human lives. A genuine tragedy in almost every other context. Most of those lives were taken in direct response to Trump assassinating, probably illegally according to international laws, maybe American too, a general who is largely replaceable. Trump admitted the impeachment partially motivated the act and the rest of the motivation is not very strongly justified at this time. The whole circus seems unnecessary and only makes sense in a way that props up narratives rather than a utilitarian need. If I am right, and please tell me why I’m not, then this seems less a win and more an abhorrent charade.

9
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: A question to our resident Brexiteer
« on: January 11, 2020, 01:49:18 PM »
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And if Clinto had got in, there would just have been an even harder push to the Republicans in this election as the electorate seeked to right that wrong. It'd even out.

Right which wrong? On your view the electorate is infallible and their vote has spoken. The People can not make an incorrect choice.

10
I remember reading a quote from the chinese equivalent of Minister of the Environment in the early 2000s, around the time when they were pushing to get a refridgerator in the home of everyone in china.  He was asked about why they weren't learning from the mistakes made by western nations when it came to pollution and he basically said that they were entitled to make the same mistakes that the west made.  With a mentality like that its not hard to understand why change is slow and often painful for humans.

12
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: January 09, 2020, 08:14:32 PM »
Looks like Trump got this one right...

Still #Bernie2020

Got what right?

His deterrence foreign policy approach to Iran.

How is it right?

13
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: January 09, 2020, 07:13:30 PM »
Looks like Trump got this one right...

Still #Bernie2020

Got what right?

14
A local phenomenon not occurring based on a global model is hardly a sign that the entire enterprise is a farce.

15
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: January 09, 2020, 01:45:47 PM »
The descent in to pedantry.

Ok, catch you next time.

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Wait a minute...

Stating someone is capable of improvement and wishing for the improvement = a personal attack...

I think we might have a clear and concise starting point from which to commence our practice!

No implying that I require improvement is the attack.  Anyway, take care.

16
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: January 09, 2020, 12:53:39 PM »
So, stating it is a "mistake," (and that is the ultimate length and breadth of the Fox comments offered in the video) = wrong in every instance, regardless of extenuating circumstances?

Yes, otherwise you are left having to put words in their mouths.
Incorrect.

You are the one who is putting words into the mouths of every Fox personality offered in the clip.

You need to rewatch the video.

The single most succinct comment made in the clip is the word, "mistake."

Yup, but they don’t say what you think which is “because he will give money to dictators”. They say it’s a mistake for Obama and praise Trump for it.

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I think there is a clear distinction in how/when/why/who is doing the meeting. 

That doesn’t mean that the Fox News hosts thought that. Again, I think it’s a mistake to assume someone’s intention especially when it appears I am projecting my own desires and beliefs on to them.
Yet you are here, making comments on the board, doing exactly that.

No, I’m basing my opinion on what they actually say and when instead of what I think they have said.

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I think they turned out to be pretty forecasters in this instance.

Irrelevant.
Highly relevant.
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Glad we agree.

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You got to pay attention to the whole beast from afar...

No idea what you are talking about. Generally it seems that you haven’t analyzed what is actually said in this clip and when it was said but rather who it was said about and your knowledge of how his administration played out to make a post-hoc analysis. Seems much more likely that Fox, like CNN are just a bunch of corporate shills serving an editorial purpose regardless of the truth.
I think you are capable of improving and wish you would.

Then a personal attack. Why, my dude?

17
And the computer modeling is based on data from observation.

18
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: January 09, 2020, 12:25:52 PM »
So, stating it is a "mistake," = wrong in every instance, regardless of extenuating circumstances?

Yes, otherwise you are left having to put words in their mouths.

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I think there is a clear distinction in how/when/why/who is doing the meeting. 

That doesn’t mean that the Fox News hosts thought that. Again, I think it’s a mistake to assume someone’s intention especially when it appears I am projecting my own desires and beliefs on to them.

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I think they turned out to be pretty forecasters in this instance.

Irrelevant.

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You got to pay attention to the whole beast from afar...

No idea what you are talking about. Generally it seems that you haven’t analyzed what is actually said in this clip and when it was said but rather who it was said about and your knowledge of how his administration played out to make a post-hoc analysis. Seems much more likely that Fox, like CNN are just a bunch of corporate shills serving an editorial purpose regardless of the truth.

19
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: January 08, 2020, 03:51:23 PM »
Afaik all Obama offered Nortk Korea was food. Never cash.

20
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: January 08, 2020, 02:25:01 PM »

Obama was going to meet with Kim-Jong and give him a pallet full of cash.

Trump met with him a couple of times and said no money, except in the exploding bomb coming your way if you keep mouthing off...

So no...not Fox being hypocritical...

Although that would be a valid distinction, Fox was saying that it was wrong to meet a dictator, full stop, so your distinction doesn't really apply.  They were doing it when he was campaigning before he even had a policy in place.

To be honest, for someone who loves to criticize the status quo and offer a position that the entire establishment is corrupt, I have no idea why you think Fox News isn't a part of that.

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