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Messages - Iceman2020

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1
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« on: October 22, 2020, 02:14:25 AM »
Well anything he drops now is going to be a lot less effective, now that he was found duped into (almost) jacking off in a hotel room as part of the next Borat movie...

2
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Low earth orbits, vs. Sun and moon
« on: October 21, 2020, 07:57:36 PM »
It was designed that way to keep the astronauts out of the polar regions where radiation in the Van Allen belt is closer to the earth's surface. (I just googled that, there are a bunch of explanations if you're more curious than that)

EDIT: a huge part of the reason is also just logistics and convenience.

3
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Low earth orbits, vs. Sun and moon
« on: October 21, 2020, 11:35:38 AM »
There is an example diagram of FE's sun epicycle on https://wiki.tfes.org/Sun

Scroll down to the "Rendered Picture of the Sun in Relation to the Earth" section.

I don't really agree that it's an epicycle, however. I didn't come up with that.

Thanks for adding that Tom, when i was searching for 'sun' in the wiki all that came up was the sun topics page which never brought me to that image.

Would you be willing to elaborate a bit for me? The diagram appears to show the sun and moon on the same orbital path (yellow line/circle) with an additional smaller yellow circle around the sun. What is the smaller yellow circle the sun sits on?

Thanks in advance

4
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Low earth orbits, vs. Sun and moon
« on: October 21, 2020, 01:00:15 AM »
Yeah, that's why I went with circle(ish) above, because they couldn't be quiiiite circular if theres the wander from tropic to tropic.

The crux of the question was about why the orbits of different objects take such drastically different shapes (or orbital period, as you've suggested).

But if there's no answer, theres no answer, I'll leave 'er there!

 

5
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Low earth orbits, vs. Sun and moon
« on: October 20, 2020, 09:55:13 PM »
Hmm. I'm having a hard time visualizing what the epicyles of the sun and moon would look like.

I realize it's not the only view out there, but the FAQ says the sun and moon move in circles around the north pole (in the day and night subsection of the page), hence my original question(s) and confusion around different potential mechanisms to explain the orbits of different bodies.

6
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Low earth orbits, vs. Sun and moon
« on: October 20, 2020, 09:17:26 PM »
Can you give me a link that explains the sun/moon epicycles? I've only seen the material from the wiki and similar models on youtube that have the sun and the moon moving in circular(ish) paths around the north pole, moving from tropic to tropic.

7
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Low earth orbits, vs. Sun and moon
« on: October 20, 2020, 06:00:24 PM »
Yeah so I can buy the idea that the shape that plots out above the FE map forms something akin to an encyclical orbit, but that begs the question as to why something that we launched would take that orbital path, while the sun and moon have simpler (near-circular) orbital paths, then the planets have much more complicated epicyclical paths.

Is there a fundamental/physical difference between these bodies? Does their altitude above earth affect the path?

I'll reiterate that I'm not trying to claim detailed knowledge of orbital mechanics, or set up some big 'gotcha' moment. Just saw that synced animation explaining the ISS path and got curious as to how other orbiting bodies would fit into the picture.

Thanks for any additional input

8
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Low earth orbits, vs. Sun and moon
« on: October 20, 2020, 01:44:29 PM »
Made a warning edit about the sound, because you're right, it's awful.

But yeah, that's what I was hoping to learn about.

From my understanding, based on the shape of the orbit of the ISS, there would have to be either some manual driving force to change the ISS' path over the course of multiple orbits, or there is some other force, different to that which controls the path of the sun and moon, to control its path.

I'm not claiming either of those to be right, or the only two options available. Just thought it was a cool video and it piqued my curiosity, so I put here here for alternative explanations and additional context hopefully!

9
Flat Earth Theory / Low earth orbits, vs. Sun and moon
« on: October 20, 2020, 01:07:58 PM »
Just came across this video that shows the orbital path of the ISS in both sphere and flat earth models.

***recommend muting volume so you dont have to hear the ridiculous added sound effects***



It's a pretty cool animation no matter how you look at it!

The downside is that it doesnt show day/night cycles along with the orbital path.

Curious if anyone has tried to model/visualize ISS paths with sun and moon path throughout the seasons?

10
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Terrible Political Memes
« on: October 19, 2020, 02:07:38 PM »
The pills and twitter are a nice touch, but I'm sad Putin doesnt have both his hands on Donny's shoulders...

11
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Tides and water levels on a flat earth
« on: October 18, 2020, 04:57:56 PM »
I'm not saying NGT is incorrect. I'm saying that video makers interpretations of NGT are misleading.

Trying to look at tidal ranges between the Maldives and Alaska proves nothing unless you evaluate the geographic and bathymetric context of those locations.

The bulge of water is small in the deep, broad parts of the ocean. That bulge can basically pile up when narrow, constricted embayments make up the coastline.

12
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Tides and water levels on a flat earth
« on: October 18, 2020, 04:41:37 PM »
I have seen this video. It displays zero understanding of how tides are explained, and the examples provided are extremely flawed. The magnitude of tidal variation is dependent on the geometry and depth of the basin. Shallow fjords and troughs like the Bay of Fundy and Alaskan troughs have high tidal ranges due to their restricted geometry. Their latitude is not important. Examples of coral atolls should have very minimal tides because they are surrounded on all sides by deep water.

The video provides good examples of exactly what is explained within RE.

13
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Tides and water levels on a flat earth
« on: October 18, 2020, 04:01:08 PM »
Thanks for elaborating Jack.

Can you give examples of high tides that dont correspond to the overhead position of the moon?

Or an example of a spring tide when the earth-moon and sun weren't in line?

Your story about Newton is interesting- I'll have to look into that a bit! Definitely would have been a lot easier for him nowadays when we have live video feeds of water levels in ports broadcast for free!

Another interesting aspect of Newtons life to look into though, thanks!

14
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Tides and water levels on a flat earth
« on: October 18, 2020, 03:32:29 AM »
There is absolutely room for a creator, even with all the scientific information available today.

Calling people stupid isnt very nice.

The moon doesnt cause the ocean to expand. In RE, it exerts a constant force which pulls more water towards it than around the peripheral parts of the earth. The earth's rotation causes different parts of the coastlines to enter into that zone of maximum pull force, where more water is located. The reason there is another high tide on the far side of the earth has to do with the lessened strength if gravity, which creates a greater inertial force...basically that water  on the far sideis doing a slightly better job trying to fly off our spinning ball...it just cant do it.

15
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Tides and water levels on a flat earth
« on: October 18, 2020, 02:50:55 AM »
Personally I believe that the correlation between the ~6.5 hour tidal ranges and the rotation of the earth combined with the orbital speed of the moon provide a very strong case for causation.

What would trigger the seafloor heaving and what provides the constant and predictable periodicity to the up and down? Tectonic processes? Something else?

16
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Tides and water levels on a flat earth
« on: October 18, 2020, 01:41:51 AM »
Okay, but what evidence for the heaving is there? How would it work? Is there accompanying seismic activity? What about the correlations between tidal highs and lows with the positions of the moon and sun?


17
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Tides and water levels on a flat earth
« on: October 17, 2020, 11:12:22 PM »
Jack, why do you say the moon has nothing to do with tides, despite the observational data that support that concept, why would Newton have been anti-tide, what data was withheld to him, and by who?

18
Flat Earth Theory / Re: UA and Gravitational Time Dilation
« on: October 17, 2020, 11:07:45 PM »
Tanaka and Honda (2018). Vertical Gravimeter Array Observations and Their Performance in Groundwater‐Level Monitoring

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/2017EA000311

I skimmed through the article above, it's a pretty interesting set up of relative gravimeters both above and below the ground.

A bit above my pay grade, I do more applied work typically, but it's a pretty good example of working to negative external and atmospheric effects. Obviously not perfect, but a good example nonetheless!

19
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Terrible Political Memes
« on: October 17, 2020, 02:08:47 PM »

20
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Sunsets in EA
« on: October 16, 2020, 02:16:43 PM »
As an analogy to explain the observed path of light rays in from the sun in EA, would it be best to think of them like magnetic field lines coming out of a dipole, like a bar magnet?
I don't want to speak with too much confidence (because someone will no doubt jump in with a "gotcha"), but I'm not immediately seeing an issue with thinking of it that way.

what direction(s) is light being emitted from the opposite side of the sun above and away from earths surface? Predominantly upwards?
If we imagine a point light source instead of a large object, then yes - there will be an angle at which all light will start curving up relatively soon, and will thus not be seen by many observers. By extension, this will be true of every point on the Sun's surface.

Ok, thanks Pete. I'll leave it there - that tackles my confusion around that aspect of EA at least.

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