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Messages - JSS

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1
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: October 19, 2020, 04:44:11 PM »
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-tweet-satire-post-twitter-shut-down-defending-biden-2020-10

Quote
Trump appeared to fall for a satirical post which joked that Twitter shut itself down to stop criticism of Joe Biden

President Donald Trump has appeared to fall for a satirical article joking that Twitter closed down its entire network to stop damaging information about Democratic nominee Joe Biden from spreading.

Early Friday morning the president shared an article by "The Babylon Bee" — titled "Twitter Shuts Down Entire Network To Slow Spread Of Negative Biden News" — adding: "Wow, this has never been done in history. This includes his really bad interview last night. Why is Twitter doing this. Bringing more attention to Sleepy Joe & Big T."


This would be funny if this moron wasn't in charge of so many critical things and is clearly just not able to tell reality from fantasy.

2
Flat Earth Theory / Re: UA and Gravitational Time Dilation
« on: October 18, 2020, 05:30:32 PM »
@JSS

Quote
We have extremely precise clocks that can measure the time differences both from changes in altitude and speed.

This is true.  However time isn't real, so you are only measuring with a slide ruler.  The speed at which thermodynamic (yes, including radiometric) processes occur vary with a variety of factors, but time never varies - ever.  The now is the same and simultaneous for all observers.  Look how many irreconcilable paradoxes I just solved!  Relativity is only for children.

What exactly have you solved?

Can you use this solution of yours to calculate the correct frequency adjustments for satellites in Relativistic orbits?

Some new method to data transmission or logic processing or math?

Can you break the speed of light limit? Travel back in 'time' since it doesn't exist?  How?

Science produces results, it gains us understanding of the world and universe around us. Your belief that time isn't real... what are the results of that?

This is why I say what you are talking about is just philosophy. It might be fun to talk about and debate, but it has no bearing on the physical world. It can't produce results, it can't do any work.  Relativity on the other hand, gives us many things, the ability of GPS to function and compensate for time dilation simply being one of them.

3
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: October 18, 2020, 12:17:18 PM »
I am still willing to engage in a bet from someone who will to commit to a T R U M P victory. It doesn't even have to be cash money.

I’d bet you, just because I want to see the trash talk if Biden wins.

That's a good campaign idea for Biden.  "Vote Biden so we can bring back the You're Fired! meme."

4
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« on: October 17, 2020, 09:58:10 PM »
Rudy Guliani has taken down crooked organizations before. If Guliani says that he has sufficient evidence of crimes implicating Biden and his family then there should be concern that he has sufficient evidence of those crimes.

I wish we had that Rudy Guliani today.

I'm not sure who this half senile butt-dialing, hot-micing, lying, ass-kissing Trump sycophant is, but it's not him.

Have you seen him talk lately? He's clearly lost his marbles.

5
Flat Earth Theory / Re: UA and Gravitational Time Dilation
« on: October 17, 2020, 09:19:15 PM »
There are two different measurements being discussed here and the Equivalence Principle only applies to one of them.  I think you are both talking about slightly different things.

What Tom is really talking about in the wiki is the rocket accelerating in space experiment demonstrates time dilation due to velocity time dilation. What is measured in the NIST experiment is gravitational time dilation. Both are predicted by relativity theory and both have been experimentally verified. Unfortunately for the wiki, the rocket experiment involves an acceleration which uniformly affects the whole rocket, so the results by definition do not show equivalence with the NIST experiment because that would require a uniform gravitational field – and gravity on Earth has been experimentally shown to vary with height. Tidal forces must also be absent.

If he read a little farther in that book quoted in the wiki (The Five Ages of the Universe by Fred C. Adams, Greg Laughlin) he would find this described exactly on p122:–
Quote
Einstein showed that the curvature of space caused by a concentration of mass produces a tidal force. Stellar black holes derive a great deal of their infamy from the extreme nature of the tidal forces near their event horizons. But what exactly is a tidal force? The answer is best given by way of an example. If you stand on Earth's surface, your head is slightly farther away from the centre of Earth than your feet. Because of this difference, your feet are being pulled away from your head. Fortunately, this effect is rather small. Because the curvature of space produced by Earth is extremely tiny, the tidal stretching force is about two million times smaller than the force of gravity itself, and we don't notice this extra force as we walk around on Earth's surface.

Yes, that is exactly what I was talking about.   I quoted the formula for calculating those tidal forces below.  If you run this calculation twice, one with a radius of 6357000m and then again at 6357005m you will get a smaller value for the calculation for 5 meters above your head.

The formula for the force of gravity on Earth is... ('G' is the universal gravitational constant, 'M' is the mass of the Earth, 'h' is the distance from the center you are measuring at.)
G M/h^2

You will also get a smaller value if you calculate the g-force inside a rocket but that uses a different formula, thus giving you a way to determine if you are in a rocket or in a gravity well.

To sum up...

You can't tell if you are in a rocket or on a planet using time dilation as both clocks on the ceiling will run the same speed in either location.

You can tell by measuring gravity, the ceiling measurement will not be the same value inside the rocket as on a planet.

6
Flat Earth Theory / Re: UA and Gravitational Time Dilation
« on: October 17, 2020, 07:03:33 PM »
@fisherman

Quote
The reason time dilation happens in the first place

It is my contention that time dilation does not happen, under any circumstances.  The now of all observers is the same, and it matters not how fast you travel or other such things.  There is no time of any kind.  It is a non-real human concept.

Light, as a pressure wave, varies most with the media it is traveling through.  Fictional/conventional concepts like "time" are not involved.  The media is what is different.  Light, as a pressure wave, requires direct interaction with matter in order to be affected in any way. This is experimental fact with no refutation, to the chagrin of the silly relativists who are no less than an entire (fictional) revolution behind in terms of "current" theories in physics.

I am aware my views are unpopular. However, if it is not consistent with experiment - it's junk. There is no time that exists, and no "spacetime" that can in any way be demonstrated or verified experimentally.  The aether on the other hand...  The age of aether-mcarthyism must come to an end.

We have extremely precise clocks that can measure the time differences both from changes in altitude and speed.  Not just one clock or type, but many different kinds and they all agree with each other and give us numbers that match what the theory predicts.  This is strong evidence that time dilation does in fact exist.

Time may or may not exist from a philosophical standpoint, but it certainly exists from a scientific and evidential based one.

7
Flat Earth Theory / Re: UA and Gravitational Time Dilation
« on: October 17, 2020, 04:23:25 PM »
Quote
If the time dilation results are the same between floor and ceiling measurements in an upwardly accelerating rocket ship and floor and ceiling measurements in a room on Earth, then what is your point? The NIST doesn't say that it detected a difference that deviated from the Equivalence Principle which that says results on Earth would be different than an upwardly accelerating rocket ship.

Your argument seems to hinge on your interpretation of the phrase "gravitational potential," which is irrelevant, since the effect would be the same.

You are still missing the point.  I'm not disputing that the NIST experiment is consistent with the equivalence principle.  I am saying it is inconsistent with UA.

According to relativity, clocks "run slower" when there is "more gravity" and "faster" when there is "less gravity".  That's what causes time dilation. If you age faster at the top of the steps than at the bottom, that means there is "less gravity" at the top of the steps. Something that UA says is not possible.

The fact that the same thing happens in an accelerating rocket ship is irrelevant.  It just means that an accelerating rocket ship mimics what happens on earth.  And the NIST experiment shows, that on earth, there is less gravity with higher elevation.

There are two different measurements being discussed here and the Equivalence Principle only applies to one of them.  I think you are both talking about slightly different things.

Tom is correct that a clock on the ceiling of an accelerating rocket ship will have the same time dilation as if the rocket were sitting on the surface the Earth.

The equation for time dilation would use the units ('g' = 9.8m/s for standard Earth acceleration) and distance (lets say the ceiling height is, 'h' = 5 m). 

(Time elapsed at ceiling in seconds) = (Time elapsed at the floor) x (1+gh/c^2)

So one second at the floor will be 1.0000000000000005 seconds at the celling.  This is the same for being on a round Earth or being on a rocket (or Flat Earth under UA) at the same acceleration, you can't tell which you are in simply by measuring time dilation.  The same equation is used in both cases, giving identical results.

On the other hand, measuring the force of acceleration on the ceiling will be different in an accelerating rocket than sitting on the surface of the Earth.  You can tell the difference if you can measure with enough precision.

The formula for the rocket is... ('g' is the acceleration at the floor which would be 9.2m/s in our case and 'h' the height of the ceiling.)

(Force of gravity on the ceiling) = g - g^2 h/c^2

The formula for the force of gravity on Earth is... ('G' is the universal gravitational constant, 'M' is the mass of the Earth, 'h' is the distance from the center you are measuring at.)

G M/h^2

These two equations are clearly not the same, which is why with a sensitive enough gravimeter you can tell the difference between a rocket (or Flat Earth under UA) accelerating at 1G and being in the gravity well of a large round planet.  This is what fisherman seems to be talking about with differences in gravitational potential.

Acceleration and time dilation are somewhat but not completely related.  It took me a LOT of re-reading to remember (and relearn) all of this. 

8
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« on: October 17, 2020, 02:53:26 PM »
Giuliani to release evidence implicating Joe Biden in a pay-for-play corruption scandal 10 days before election.

Yes, I'm sure whatever this is will be vastly more corrupt than all the crap Trump has done in the past 4 years with his hotels and resorts directly funneling taxpayer money into his properties and making the secret service pay to stay at his hotels and letting foreign governments directly bribe him by going to his hotels.

Plus God knows what with whatever foreign bank he owes that 400 million to and... yeah.

Yawn.

Trump is a walking conflict of interest and we are supposed to get riled up about something crazy Giuliani is going to say?  Sure.

9
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« on: October 17, 2020, 01:40:06 AM »
Quote
But don't deny people health care based on risk factors they can't control.  The US healthcare system is a disaster. People shouldn't have to die because a corporation wants more profits.

There already is socialized medicine in the US. It's called medicaid for the poor and medicare for the old. Millions are on it, and use it to get healthcare.

Why should people who can afford healthcare get it too?

Why not?  Other countries manage it.  Why can't the richest country on the planet give all their citizens access to heath care?

Why do you want to deny people health care?  There are plenty of people who can't afford health care but are not old or poor enough to get either medicare or medicaid.  Plenty of people who can afford insurance still go bankrupt due to medical bills that insurance won't cover.

Obamacare expanded Medicaid to younger people but of course, only the blue states enacted it, so if you're in a red state you are out of luck.

Millions are on it, but we still have 30 million people without health care.  In the richest country on the planet.  That is just sad.




10
Ex-Military Member and Benghazi Whistleblower Nick Noe is on board, re-tells the story, and explains what is coming. Says he saw the evidence. Hillary Clinton had Extortion 17 shot down with stinger missile. Treason.

1:00 to 8:00 - His background
8:00 to End - Seal Team Six timeline



Yes, I too get my conspiracy news from YouTube. ::)

Nick Noe.  "Benghazi Whistleblower"  LOL. 

So some random guy on YouTube.  Not a stellar source of credible information here.  I mean, what makes this guy a reliable source of information?  The fact that he's saying what you so desperately want to hear?

The right really is imploding now, got nothing but crazy conspiracy theories to offer.

Has Trump ordered Barr to investigate?  Why not?  Possibly because even Barr wouldn't touch this crapsack?

11
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« on: October 16, 2020, 11:02:33 PM »
mandated DNA tests to determine if you should be charged more for expected complications

Why should anyone have to pay more because of this?  The whole point to insurance is that everyone chips in and the money goes to who needs it.  You are healthy and don't have any genetic problems, well good for you, feel lucky you DON'T need to use it as much as others, don't get upset because you have to 'waste' money on insurance you don't need.

Why have insurance at all if you're just going to force people to pay for their misfortune and bad luck?

Insurance is fundamentally a bet that the insurer will make more money than they'll expend taking care of the collective insured. The betting odds change based on how healthy you are. If the government is paying a cost based on betting, how is it not fair that the government get a better idea of the odds?

If the odds are that a given person will cost more money, then that person should be required to pay a higher cost over time to offset the chance they'll require more money. The most common healthcare problems are often entirely voluntary. Drinking, obesity, reckless driving, smoking, unprotected sex, these are all voluntary items that increase the cost of healthcare to the individual. Why should a taxpayer who chooses none of these things be forced to pay for one who does?

Because this isn't a game.  It's not about keeping score and making sure health care is fair.  Life isn't fair.  It's not fair to be diagnosed with cancer when you're 6.

It's immoral to deny health care to people just because they weren't born to rich parents or fell into the wrong risk group.  Dying because of where you were born? That's not fair.

If you are concerned people are doing unhealthy things and it's not fair they get health care, well tax the things you don't like, you mentioned that before.

But don't deny people health care based on risk factors they can't control.  The US healthcare system is a disaster. People shouldn't have to die because a corporation wants more profits.

I know people in other countries would never have survived to be an adult here because they couldn't have paid for care they needed.  Do they not deserve to live?  Are their lives worthless because their parents were not wealthy? 

I'm sorry if you feel your forced to pay for other peoples health care.  I hope you continue to be forced to pay for others, it's way better than being the one that needs it.  Consider yourself lucky.

You don't want to go down the road of deciding who should get care based on their life choices.  After all, smokers actually cost the government LESS because on average they die early from aggressive cancers and don't live long enough to collect lots of benefits and need years of expensive end of life care.  If you're going to value a life purely on how much the government has to spend on them you might find yourself the one being thrown out into the cold.  Your healthy living is going to be expensive in the long run after all. 

12
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« on: October 16, 2020, 10:24:55 PM »
mandated DNA tests to determine if you should be charged more for expected complications

Why should anyone have to pay more because of this?  The whole point to insurance is that everyone chips in and the money goes to who needs it.  You are healthy and don't have any genetic problems, well good for you, feel lucky you DON'T need to use it as much as others, don't get upset because you have to 'waste' money on insurance you don't need.

Why have insurance at all if you're just going to force people to pay for their misfortune and bad luck?

13
It was more than one team conducting the op according to the discussed claims.



Quote
So are you accepting that O'Neill was on the team that killed Bin Laden?  And that he is still alive?  So he was NOT murdered by Biden?

He may have been involved, but the news article I posted suggested that he may have lied about killing Bin Laden. And the assault team is not necessarily the same team performing the DNA tests and verification and body cleanup.

Yeah.

Come back when you get your story straight and have some actual evidence or proof that the people killed in the helicopter attack were part of the Bin Laden raid.  Old news, and so obviously recycled to try and hurt Biden just before the election. Transparent.

So far you have people "discussing claims".  Pure guesswork and wishful thinking.

Remember all the kids murdered in the basement of the pizza shop? The one it turned out doesn't even have a basement?

The backtracking has already started.  Now you are claiming that the team the killed him is alive but maybe others were involved and those were murdered.  Sure.

14
Flat Earth Community / Re: What happend to other Flat Earth society?
« on: October 16, 2020, 09:45:47 PM »
No idea, but it's happened before and they came back.  Credit card expired without them noticing?  Hard to say.  I don't think they break any of the hosting providers rules.

What's funny is my last post there was replying to someone who asked how long the site would be around, and I said as long as whoever is paying for it keeps writing the checks.

Last activity on the Facebook page was in June, no updates there.  I assume it will be back once things are sorted, and if not, someone in the know will show up here and explain what happened.

15
Why would they need to pick 15 members instead of taking one or two hundred team members?  Are you serious?  How else do you expect them to pick members of a dangerous and vital mission, randomly?

You don't know how the teams involved in this consisted, or any of the names involved. Don't pretend that you do.

I quoted a source saying it was Red team.  The only one here saying Gold was involved is you, with zero evidence.  So don't pretend you know Gold was involved when every document says it was Red.

Quote
Plus one of those team members is alive and talking and saying they know personally that the rest of the team is still alive.

There are a number of article stating that he lied about Osama.

https://www.ibtimes.com/bin-laden-shooter-robert-oneill-misstated-facts-falsely-took-sole-credit-report-1721137

Bin Laden Shooter Robert O’Neill Misstated Facts, Falsely Took Sole Credit: Report

So are you accepting that O'Neill was on the team that killed Bin Laden?  And that he is still alive?  So he was NOT murdered by Biden?

If so it's good to see a little progress is being made here.

16
No, Gold Squadron are not credited, Red Squadron is.  It is false to say they are dead when they were not even the same squadron and members of the team are still alive and talking.

You are seriously desperate for this to be true. Where is your source that it was Gold Squadron?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Osama_bin_Laden

McRaven hand-picked a team drawing from the most experienced and senior operators from Red Squadron, one of four that make up DEVGRU. Red Squadron was coming home from Afghanistan and could be redirected without attracting attention. The team had language skills and experience with cross-border operations into Pakistan. Almost all the Red Squadron operators had ten or more deployments to Afghanistan.

Your quote just says that they hand picked some team members from the Red Squadron. Why would they need to hand pick members from Red Squadron to participate if it was Red Squadron that did it?

The whole operation likely involved multiple teams on some way, not just one, hence selecting from Red Team.

Why would they need to pick 15 members instead of taking one or two hundred team members?  Are you serious?  How else do you expect them to pick members of a dangerous and vital mission, randomly?

You have zero evidence other teams (such as Gold) were involved.  Red is not Gold.

All the documentation states it was Red team that killed Bin Laden.  Gold team was on the helicopter that was shut down.

Different teams.

Plus one of those team members is alive and talking and saying they know personally that the rest of the team is still alive.

This conspiracy theory is founded on lies.  Just like PizzaGate, and will go down in history as another crazy, desperate attempt to smear democrats by the far-right.

17
No. This has nothing to do with this or that platoon name. The government cover-up claims about the Osama Seals were made despite the platoon name. History.com says that the members on board Extraction 17 were part of the DEVGRU that did the Osama raid.

https://www.history.com/news/the-costliest-day-in-seal-team-six-history

The Costliest Day in SEAL Team Six History

"On August 6, 2011, insurgents shot down a Chinook transport helicopter in Afghanistan, killing all 38 people on board, including 15 Navy SEALS from Team Six’s Gold Squadron.

~


Of the 30 Americans killed, 22 were Navy personnel, and 17 were SEALs. These included two bomb specialists and 15 operators in the Gold Squadron of DEVGRU, or Team Six, the highly classified unit that conducted the raid that killed Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden at his compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan the previous May."

There are several squadrons that comprise DEVGRU. They are delineated by colours. Red Squadron carrier out Operation Neptune Spear, not Gold Squadron.  There is no evidence a member of Operation Neptune Spear was killed in that crash.

The government doesn't list out names of Seal Team Six members, so you wouldn't know that no one involved with Osama was killed in the crash.

The fact is that the Gold Squadron of DEVGRU of Seal Team Six are credited as the team that conducted the Bin Laden Raid.

Members of that team were on Extortion 17

Therefore it is false to say that no members of the team that conducted the Osama raid died.

'Operation Neptune Spear' refers to an operation name, not a team name.

No, Gold Squadron are not credited, Red Squadron is.  It is false to say they are dead when they were not even the same squadron and members of the team are still alive and talking.

You are seriously desperate for this to be true. Where is your source that it was Gold Squadron?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Osama_bin_Laden

McRaven hand-picked a team drawing from the most experienced and senior operators from Red Squadron, one of four that make up DEVGRU. Red Squadron was coming home from Afghanistan and could be redirected without attracting attention. The team had language skills and experience with cross-border operations into Pakistan. Almost all the Red Squadron operators had ten or more deployments to Afghanistan.

18
No. This has nothing to do with this or that platoon. The conspiracy about the Osama Seals were made despite the platoon name. History.com says that the members on board Extraction 17 were part of the DEVGRU that did the Osama raid.

https://www.history.com/news/the-costliest-day-in-seal-team-six-history

The Costliest Day in SEAL Team Six History

"On August 6, 2011, insurgents shot down a Chinook transport helicopter in Afghanistan, killing all 38 people on board, including 15 Navy SEALS from Team Six’s Gold Squadron.

~


Of the 30 Americans killed, 22 were Navy personnel, and 17 were SEALs. These included two bomb specialists and 15 operators in the Gold Squadron of DEVGRU, or Team Six, the highly classified unit that conducted the raid that killed Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden at his compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan the previous May."

It's been pointed out to you before that the Seal teams are quite large.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEAL_Team_Six

According to the GAO report on special operations forces, in the fiscal year of 2014, DEVGRU had a total of 1,787 authorized positions, of which 1,342 are military and 445 are civilian

The Seal members on board the downed helicopter were NOT THE SAME people that were on the Bin Laden raid.  This is confirmed by one of the still living members, and he has confirmed the rest are alive too.

They are all still alive. What is dead is this conspiracy theory. How could Obama/Hillary/Biden/Bush have murdered them if they are not dead?

19
None of the members who were on the mission to kill Bin Laden are dead.  The guy who actually shot him is being very public in showing that he is alive and well.  He has confirmed they are ALL alive.

A lot of Seal Team 6 did die. It was the single largest loss of life in the history of the US Navy Seals. Parrot references Extortion 17 in the documents he provided.

And you are again avoiding the fact that none of the people on the Bin Laden raid died in that attack. 

You have no proof or evidence that anyone on the Bin Laden raid was on that helicopter.  And evidence DIRECT from one of the people on it that they were NOT.

Dead wrong.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Afghanistan_Boeing_Chinook_shootdown

For years after the downing of Extortion 17, there were many theories about a possible government cover-up. The official statement from US Central Command states that a Taliban fighter scored a lucky shot with a rocket propelled grenade on the CH-47 Chinook helicopter. It was reported that the Taliban fighters had no information of the helicopter's flight path and that they had been in the right place at the right time. A Department of Defense official asserted that there were no leaks from the Afghans.[citation needed] Doubts about this story were raised by families and other concerned citizens despite the fact that the US Navy SEAL team aboard Extortion 17 had been a different platoon than had carried out the raid that killed Osama bin Laden three months earlier. The theories suggest that there had been leaked information from Afghan forces to the Taliban about the mission, allowing the Taliban to plan and carry out the strike against Extortion 17.[21]

That backs up what I was saying. 

The Seal team on that helicopter were NOT the same team members that killed Bin Laden.  They are still alive.  That is the official word.  It's right there in your quote.  So your conspiracy theory has a massive hole blown in it, from your own source.

despite the fact that the US Navy SEAL team aboard Extortion 17 had been a different platoon than had carried out the raid that killed Osama bin Laden

20
None of the members who were on the mission to kill Bin Laden are dead.  The guy who actually shot him is being very public in showing that he is alive and well.  He has confirmed they are ALL alive.

A lot of Seal Team 6 did die. It was the single largest loss of life in the history of the US Navy Seals. Parrot references Extortion 17 in the documents he provided.

And you are again avoiding the fact that none of the people on the Bin Laden raid died in that attack. 

You have no proof or evidence that anyone on the Bin Laden raid was on that helicopter.  And evidence DIRECT from one of the people on it that they were NOT.

All you have is some falcon trainer guy claiming a bunch of stuff, and the ACTUAL PEOPLE he is saying are dead alive and well and posting and doing interviews.

To sum up, again: None of the Seal team that was on the Bin Laden raid died. They are all still alive. This conspiracy is based on LIES.

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