1

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Why is TFE the right model?

« on: January 22, 2018, 07:20:32 PM »

We have not been "shown to be wrong". It is only wrong if you preconditon certain rationalizations so much as "if this is true and if that is true then Flat Earth is impossible". No direct evidence has been presented to show that the earth is round. It is all rationalization.

The only arguments in favor of a globe we have seen involve numerous assumptions that need to be true for the conclusion to have merit. It seems impossible for you guys to provide direct evidence for a direct conclusion.

Tom, I think you got FET and RET mixed up...

2

Flat Earth Theory / Re: You Can Neither Demonstrate Nor Defend Flat Earth Without Invoking Conspiracy

« on: January 17, 2018, 02:19:51 AM »

That takes five seconds!
Google "SpaceX"!

Yes, relying on NASA's subcontractors is vastly likely to convince people who are skeptical of NASA. Great job!

SpaceX is an independent corporate entity. They have a contract with NASA to send cargo to the ISS, but they run completely independently and launch satellites for people who pay to use their rockets.

3

Flat Earth Theory / Re: What is the source of the sun's energy?

« on: January 16, 2018, 07:28:19 PM »

If you had chemotherapy recently, your hair would have fallen out, which is not what your profile picture (presumably your face) shows.

I doubt she'd update it to show that, I know I wouldn't. I'd stop trying to poke holes in her personal life stories and just discard them as unrelated - that's an area where she has an objective advantage, because she could make up anything and you couldn't prove her wrong.

You should stick to the flat earth discussions, where she can still make stuff up but you can prove her wrong.

True, PickYerPoison, true.

4

Flat Earth Theory / Re: You Can Neither Demonstrate Nor Defend Flat Earth Without Invoking Conspiracy

« on: January 16, 2018, 07:27:31 PM »

Well, to be fair - and I was the only one who said I would do this - the challenge was to demonstrate this fact without relying on government space agencies.

That takes five seconds!
Google "SpaceX"!

5

Flat Earth Theory / Re: What is the source of the sun's energy?

« on: January 16, 2018, 07:24:06 PM »

I fixed Pickel's signature!
"Hi y'all. I am a typical IDIOT girl who does NOT follow the masses and who blindly accepts what is told to me without EVIDENCE. That being said, I don't believe in a lot of facts including evolution, the holocaust, and the globular earth FACT."

6

Flat Earth Theory / Re: What is the source of the sun's energy?

« on: January 16, 2018, 07:22:59 PM »

Kal_9000,

There's a metric crapton of evidence:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

Further reading:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial

"Critics of Holocaust denial also include members of the Auschwitz SS."

"Holocaust denial is widely considered to be antisemitic."

More evidence:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Holocaust_survivors

Unlike you, Wikipedia cites its sources.

Well, of course you can present something as real and factual if you are presented only one side of the story. It is important to hear out all sides and think critically. I am not going to address the holocaust here in much detail because that's a separate debate. What I will say is that if you look at the evidence for yourself without opinionated input, with objectivity, and through a historical context, you'd realize how ambiguous and biased they are. I don't deny that minorities and political enemies in Germany were imprisoned in labor camps and that many died (no evidence for genocide, though). I just see no evidence that Jews were singled out and tortured and killed for being Jews. There are many "holocaust survivors" such as paul rassinier, joseph g burg, and maria van herwaarden who deny the holocaust. Furthermore, the early investigations of the holocaust were performed by the allied nations (international military tribunal), and the declassified Nazi info and holocaust testimony were revealed by anti-Nazi resistance. So, you can't rule out fraudulent practices by the allied nations or by the anti-Nazi resistance. What makes you think that the anti-Nazis of German-occupied territories didn't fake their information in order to slander Nazis and get nations to fight the third Reich? I firmly believe that the allied nations faked the holocaust in order to crush German resistance and to get the Germans to willingly embrace the Versailles agreement again, which is what they essentially did to some extent. Guilt is an effective method in psychological warfare. No, I'm not an anti-Semitic. I just don't accept things from biased investigators and paramilitary groups. I try to think critically for myself.

To quote the Wikipedia article on Holocaust denial,
"Critics of Holocaust denial include the Auschwitz SS"
Do you know what the SS is? Or Auschwitz?

7

Flat Earth Theory / Re: What is the source of the sun's energy?

« on: January 16, 2018, 07:19:56 PM »

Kal_9000,

Calling yourself a "poor little girl" is a way of making yourself look cute so he'll back off.

That was never my intention. If I wanted sympathy, I would've mentioned my recent undergoing of chemotherapy for cancer. But I didn't mention that. Do you know why? Because I don't want pity. No, I don't want him to back off. If I did, I would have politely told him to back off.

Second of all, you're right, he should stop using ad hominem attacks. However, just because he's doing that doesn't make his argument invalid.

Then why would he use ad hominem attacks if his arguments were valid? Ad hominem attacks are used by individuals losing an argument; it's their last weapon of defense.

Advancing Flat Earth Theory is not scientific in any way. Science involves discarding and/or modifying theories that have been proven wrong, not ignoring and faking evidence to support a flawed hypothesis.

That's what we are doing here: modifying flat earth theory and deciding what works and what does not work. and who's faking and ignoring evidence? Do we sometimes ignore claims? Yes. But evidence? And advancing flat earth IS scientific. We haven't had the kind of support and funding that round earth theory has received over the last few hundreds of years. That's the only reason why the spherical earth model seems like the better choice to most.

If you had chemotherapy recently, your hair would have fallen out, which is not what your profile picture (presumably your face) shows.

That CAN be a case where ad hominem attacks are used. They're sometimes also used when the person you're debating is fed up with your bullshit.

No amount of modification to Flat Earth Theory will make it correct, because the core premise is false. In science, we discard theories that have been repeatedly proven to be false.

8

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: why would the government want to hide it if the earth was flat?

« on: January 12, 2018, 07:09:01 PM »

I hear it a lot but I just don't understand, why would the government want to hide the truth from us?

It wouldn't.
Flat Earthers have yet to show how hiding the shape of Earth provides the government/NASA/Illuminati with any money and/or power.

9

Flat Earth Community / Re: Could someone clarify on how globers and flat earthers prove their theory?

« on: January 12, 2018, 05:18:33 PM »

"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."
― Christopher Hitchen

"If it's a quote from someone famous, it must be true!"
― KAL 9000

10

Flat Earth Theory / Re: You Can Neither Demonstrate Nor Defend Flat Earth Without Invoking Conspiracy

« on: January 11, 2018, 11:59:13 PM »

Copy and paste the method used to verify the spherical coordinate calculated distance between locations like New York and Paris please... Thanks!

No need to copy and paste. We can do it right now.

Globe Earth model and Flat Earth polar map agree in one thing: distances from North pole are equal on both.

Latitude of Paris is 48.85 degrees north. It means 5427.8 km from Equator, and 4572.2 km from North pole.
Latitude of New York is 40.73 degrees north. It means 4525.5 km from Equator, and 5474.5 km from North pole.
Angle between their meridians is 2.35 degrees east + 74.00 degrees west = 76.35 degrees.

If Earth is flat we would have simple triangle with two known sides and the angle between them.

Third side would be SQRT(4572.2^2 + 5474.5^2 - 2*4572.2*5474.5*cos(76.35)) = 6249.9 km
If we extend both meridians from North pole to Equator, we have another triangle, with two sides of 10 000 km each and angle between them again 76.35 degrees.
Tetive connecting the two points at Equator is 12 361 km long.

Measured ground speed of subsolar point for equinox shows that circumference of Equator is 24 900 miles, or 40 072 km.
It gives length of 76.35 degrees arc to be 76.35 * 40072 / 360 = 8498.6 km long.

So, arc is nearly 8500 km long, and its tetive is 12 360 km long ?
Can arc be shorter than its tetive ? ? ?
Does Flat Earth model work?

Maybe "perspective" ?
kekeke

This, Tom.

You require unfathomably low standards of what constitutes "proof" for things you agree with, and absurdly high standards of what constitutes "proof" for things you disagree with.

(Thanks for writing out the proof, Macarios.)

11

Flat Earth Theory / Re: You Can Neither Demonstrate Nor Defend Flat Earth Without Invoking Conspiracy

« on: January 11, 2018, 10:32:41 PM »

Copy and paste the method used to verify the spherical coordinate calculated distance between locations like New York and Paris please... Thanks!

Tom, you're dancing around the subject. If you want to know, you can go find it yourself.

12

Flat Earth Theory / Re: You Can Neither Demonstrate Nor Defend Flat Earth Without Invoking Conspiracy

« on: January 11, 2018, 10:02:10 PM »

This statement can be backed up by mathematics. Don't believe me? Check out 3DGeek's comprehensive mathematical proof: https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.0
Got it, Flat Earth dismissed.

Read through the thread. He was unable to show that the distances were accurate.

The distance from New York to Paris is unknown.

13

Flat Earth Theory / Re: You Can Neither Demonstrate Nor Defend Flat Earth Without Invoking Conspiracy

« on: January 11, 2018, 10:00:49 PM »

This statement can be backed up by mathematics. Don't believe me? Check out 3DGeek's comprehensive mathematical proof: https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.0
Got it, Flat Earth dismissed.

Read through the thread. He was unable to show that the distances were accurate.

Actually, he was. You, however, are apparently too stupid to understand that.

14

Flat Earth Theory / Re: You Can Neither Demonstrate Nor Defend Flat Earth Without Invoking Conspiracy

« on: January 11, 2018, 09:56:37 PM »

Evidence: Measured distances between locations are consistent with the Earth being a globe

That statement isn't evidence. Are you saying that we can prove the existence of leprechauns with a sentence?

Hitchen's Razor asserts:

"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."
― Christopher Hitchen

Evidence dismissed.

This statement can be backed up by mathematics. Don't believe me? Check out 3DGeek's comprehensive mathematical proof: https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.0

Oh, yeah, YOU derailed that thread after being proven wrong, and provided us with the immortal:

The distance from New York to Paris is unknown.

"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."
― Christopher Hitchen

Got it, Flat Earth dismissed.

15

Flat Earth Theory / Re: What is the source of the sun's energy?

« on: January 11, 2018, 09:52:53 PM »

StinkyOne,

Probably got some antisemitism going on there, too. The whole denying the holocaust thing.

So, denying something that has zero evidence for it makes me anti-Semitic?

There's a metric crapton of evidence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

Further reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial

"Critics of Holocaust denial also include members of the Auschwitz SS."

"Holocaust denial is widely considered to be antisemitic."

More evidence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Holocaust_survivors

Unlike you, Wikipedia cites its sources.

16

Flat Earth Theory / Re: What is the source of the sun's energy?

« on: January 11, 2018, 09:48:27 PM »

JohnAdams1145,

How civil of you to resort to name-calling / ad hominem attacks on a poor, little girl. You should be ashamed of yourself. Because while I and other flat earth theorists are here trying to answer questions scientifically and to contribute to the scientific endeavor of advancing flat earth theory, you're being a hindrance to our scientific ambitions and a bully. You are therefore an enemy of science and progress.

Let's pick apart this paragraph:

"How civil of you to resort to name-calling / ad hominem attacks on a poor, little girl. You should be ashamed of yourself. Because while I and other flat earth theorists are here trying to answer questions scientifically and to contribute to the scientific endeavor of advancing flat earth theory, you're being a hindrance to our scientific ambitions and a bully. You are therefore an enemy of science and progress."

Calling yourself a "poor little girl" is a way of making yourself look cute so he'll back off. Second of all, you're right, he should stop using ad hominem attacks. However, just because he's doing that doesn't make his argument invalid.

Advancing Flat Earth Theory is not scientific in any way. Science involves discarding and/or modifying theories that have been proven wrong, not ignoring and faking evidence to support a flawed hypothesis.

17

Flat Earth Theory / Re: You Can Neither Demonstrate Nor Defend Flat Earth Without Invoking Conspiracy

« on: January 11, 2018, 09:43:51 PM »

Looking at the world does tell us that the earth is flat.

No, it doesn't. Simply repeating something false doesn't make it true.
Looking at a flat horizon, if you knew absolutely nothing about the world, may lead you to conclude that the earth is flat.

Right. The conclusion is that the earth is flat. So tell us something about the world that shows us otherwise.

Measured distances between locations are consistent with the Earth being a globe, not a circle.

And don't give me the "round-Earth derived distances" excuse either. These distances are measured, not extrapolated!

That seems to be a statement rather than evidence.

Evidence: Measured distances between locations are consistent with the Earth being a globe, not a circle.

Statement: These distances are measured, not extrapolated!

You see, you can measure the distances yourself, and they'll agree with the publicly stated ones.

18

Flat Earth Theory / Re: You Can Neither Demonstrate Nor Defend Flat Earth Without Invoking Conspiracy

« on: January 11, 2018, 06:09:17 PM »

Looking at the world does tell us that the earth is flat.

No, it doesn't. Simply repeating something false doesn't make it true.
Looking at a flat horizon, if you knew absolutely nothing about the world, may lead you to conclude that the earth is flat.

Right. The conclusion is that the earth is flat. So tell us something about the world that shows us otherwise.

Measured distances between locations are consistent with the Earth being a globe, not a circle.

And don't give me the "round-Earth derived distances" excuse either. These distances are measured, not extrapolated!

19

Flat Earth Theory / Re: You Can Neither Demonstrate Nor Defend Flat Earth Without Invoking Conspiracy

« on: January 11, 2018, 01:12:44 AM »

"If one attempts to demonstrate or defend the flat earth model WITHOUT invoking conspiracy theory, one will either concede that they are mistaken, concede that they MAY be mistaken, or inevitably invoke conspiracy theory in order to make up for a lack of scientific observations that can withstand scrutiny."

What about the option of demonstrating or defending the Flat Earth Model and showing evidence that there is, in fact, a Conspiracy?

I think the OP is saying they want this to be completely unrelated to conspiracy theories. You may talk about them in a different thread, but not this one, I guess.

20

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Project ESDR

« on: January 10, 2018, 11:43:19 PM »

The point I was trying to make, although in not the most appropriate way, was that it would be redundant to try to build your own rocket to try to prove the Earth is round when it's been done already by many others. It won't work, primarily because of the degree of proof required by Flat Earthers and the innumerable ad hoc explanations they make for virtually every observation that doesn't conform with their beliefs.

Essentially, your logical argument of "I sent a rocket into space and here are the pictures" would be no different than the argument "look at all the YouTube videos of amateurs who have sent rockets really high and they clearly show curvature" and therefore wouldn't present new evidence to the debate.

No, I'm telling THEM how to do it.