Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - ClaireSmythe

Pages: [1]
1
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Universal Accelerator: A Disinfo Theory
« on: January 26, 2016, 03:19:43 PM »
Does that disinfo-theory even make 1 whit of sense to you?   Seriously? 

If you were to explain it to 10 of your random colleagues, how many of them would you expect to think it made 1 whit of sense?   I would reckon none of them ---- assuming you had the courage to go public with your curiosities. 
Acceleration is not hard to understand. The details may be tricky, but the same is true of anything,

Tachyons???   How much of your effort are you going to waste on this Universal Accelerator nonsense?? 
If you have proof positive that it is nonsense, then I would love to hear it. Otherwise these claims of disinformation are just pointless.
As I said, universal acceleration is not part of my preferred model, but I'm not going to ignore a possibility just because it's different.

You want folks to treat you as a scientist? 
Hm.  Your true game is not that hard to figure out.  I bet $100 is that you here trolling the forums as a work-up towards designing your own disinfo theory. 

Good luck!!
There is a great deal of hypocrisy inherent in a flat earther, whose models are rejected by the scientific community at large for no good reason, to suddenly turn around and claim anyone who proposes a different flat earth model is automatically wrong or trolling.
Do you have anything productive to say? Universal acceleration is problematic, as I have said, but that doesn't mean those problems can't be solved.

2
Flat Earth Community / Re: Antarctica
« on: January 25, 2016, 01:19:46 PM »
Do you have a link to such a model?  I am unable to visualize what you're describing.

You just need to draw a semicircle. The straight line is the Earth, and the arc is the path of the accelerator.

The principle is like the below. It's a round object because it's the only thing I could find on google, but it's clear the same principle will hold. When a flow is interrupted, follow the path of the green dye. it splits for the interruption, and rejoins on the far side at a distance.


3
Flat Earth Community / Re: Antarctica
« on: January 24, 2016, 12:42:03 PM »
OK, got it.  Pursuing the hypothetical you suggest, that UA might be able to speed up motion at the rim: would this mean that apparent gravity would feel stronger there?  Or that UA in the Z axis (up-down) has an effect on motion in the X and Y axes (north-south and east/counterclockwise - west/clockwise) that it does not have at more northerly locations on the disc?
If the effect of acceleration acts in the horizontal direction, it wouldn't have any effect on the downwards force. The accelerator acts in the vertical direction on the Earth, but that wouldn't preclude a side-effect: I've seen many models in which it forms a dome-shape when the accelerator moves to form a single current above the Earth. Its flow was interrupted by the disk.

4
Suggestions & Concerns / Re: Changes to the FAQ
« on: January 23, 2016, 11:12:28 PM »
If my AFET is not up to your standards, then, by all means, do come up with an improved version of FET using ether.
I didn't say that. I said that the community should decide. Once you've written up your FAQ and the people accepted it, it'll be put up on the Wiki with no delay.

Perhaps a good test will be a draft FAQ, and then the community shares what they understood from it: Sandokhan can say if they're accurate. One of the most important functions of an FAQ is to inform clearly and, no offense intended to Sandokhan, but when I look at his posts it's often incredibly hard to work out what's going on.
That could just be the unavoidable effect of advanced science, but in that case it's possible an FAQ format wouldn't be feasible.

5
Flat Earth Community / Re: Antarctica
« on: January 23, 2016, 07:56:51 PM »
We should also remember that there are several maps that include two poles, and that distance is not the only determining factor for how long it takes to complete a journey. It could be that the accelerator for the Earth speeds up motion at the rim, or that rotational forces move faster the further out you are. Jet streams are common knowledge.

I'm new here, can someone tell me what the "accelerator for the Earth" means?
Are you familiar with the model of universal acceleration? The accelerator is simply the cause.

6
I apologise for assuming you were a zeteticist.

There's lots to discuss here, I can't attempt it all at once.

If the footage I showed is fake, there's no need to invent exotic light behaviours for the sun. If such are considered necessary then surely that admits that at least some of those videos are real. have you decided which it is?

How does this refraction model work? Tachyons are postulated to produce a double image but that isn't evident in the polar sun videos. Also, maybe I'm just not smart enough but I can't see how the angles work, and why wouldn't there be some sort of discontinuity or jump between the different modes of light behaviour as the sun recedes and advances, especially as the seasons change. How do we go from 24hr day to 24hr night if the (new) laws of physics are self-consistent? Australia barely gets any darker in June but the wall does. Perhaps these laws vacation in the summer? Even God needs a break now and then.

I'm not a qualified scientist myself, but I'd love to have a sneak preview of your paper on this subject.

I said I was mentioning two possibilities. I don't see why both need to be reconciled, I am not saying both are simultaneously true, just that they're both possible.

There's no point in a detailed paper when I'm dealing with multiple, separate possibilities.

I'm not relying on refraction, for the unification model. That model posits that refractive objects exert a kind of magnetism that affects quantum objects (this magnetism is in fact why they are refractive). There would be no discontinuity in the light, it simply alters the path light takes. The further in light is, less of it can reach the ice wall.
The tachyon model requires some background knowledge. As tachyons move faster than light, you cannot see one approach you. Instead, you see it the moment it reaches you: and then you see two images at once. You see the tachyon's afterimage as it leaves you, and you see the path it took to meet you (In reverse order: the closer photons clearly reach you first). This principle might allow for the Sun to be viewed from two places at once.

7
Flat Earth Community / Re: The fracturing of the Flat Earth community
« on: January 22, 2016, 04:53:07 PM »
The fracturing helps. Different sites end up directed towards different purposes. IFERS was far more focused on the conspiracy aspect of some Flat Earth models, youtubers get the word out and encourage interest, and forums provide a place for discussion and the development of models: while forums like this provide a place to socialize as well.
I don't see what benefit centralizing would give. We have everything we need, and we have the freedom needed to develop.

When the best flat earth model is determined, then a core would be useful: but we will only reach that stage with the freedom needed for people to think, and get the word out.

8
Flat Earth Community / Re: Antarctica
« on: January 22, 2016, 04:47:00 PM »
We should also remember that there are several maps that include two poles, and that distance is not the only determining factor for how long it takes to complete a journey. It could be that the accelerator for the Earth speeds up motion at the rim, or that rotational forces move faster the further out you are. Jet streams are common knowledge.

I don't think distances work properly on the bipolar map either,  and I couldn't see the sun and moon paths working on a bipolar map,   maybe someone has worked it out.     

EA is probably best left to another thread.

I haven't seen anyone who's genuinely tried to analyze which maps are possible, there's typically just a cursory glance at the azimuthal projection that is not claimed to be accurate, with no thought given to subtle rearrangements of the continents. The bipolar possibilities rarely get a look-in, and when they do it's rarely in any detail.
The claim that distances do not work is likely impossible to prove. To try and do so would require proving a number of far trickier propositions.
The one thing I will say is to lose preconceptions. A bipolar map may prove more successful if the cliche of a circular path for the Sun is lost: a figure-8 path would explain midnight suns, and if the Sun's orientation alters it would remain facing the continents.

Regardless, as flight times depend on more than just distance, nothing has been proven.

9

There are multiple explanations, that's all I'm saying. Occam's Razor can't be applied to a fraction of a model; both the possibilities I referred to would have other consequences throughout the earth, it isn't an assumption meant for just one situation.
The evidence for the conjecture is the assumption that the Earth is flat. Find that as unlikely as you want, but to develop a working (and so testable) hypothesis, that's a necessary starting point.

You say there are multiple explanations, but assuming for a moment that the footage is real, what do you think is the simplest, with the most evidence behind it?

By the way I thought zetetic method didn't hold with hypothesising, isn't that true?

Aren't you supposed to take direct evidence only? And unless you go to the location in the videos yourself, surely video is the closest thing to first hand experience?

Or you you have trouble trusting video in general? Do you accuse your friends of fakery when they show you video of last summers bbq or any event you weren't physically present at?

I'm a scientist. The zetetic method still requires a question to be asked: my current question is if the Earth is flat, what rules would have to govern it? I then perform tests to work out whether that makes sense.
The zetetic method and scientific method aren't so different. Round earthers often seem to present a completely irrelevant idea in its place (the idea of trusting only direct observation), which has nothing whatsoever to do with the zetetic method. Zeteticism is about relying on evidence over a hypothesis: it doesn't preclude hypothesizing, it simply means a hypothesis shouldn't be taken as fact, and experiments should be performed without an aim to prove or falsify: they should just be performed. Skepticism and open-mindedness ask also that we be prepared to consider alternatives.
Regardless, I am first and foremost a scientist.

On a conspiracy, the question is motive. Friends would have little reason to pretend they had a bbq, while there are motives from the theological and philosophical, to the financial and political that could theoretically motivate a conspiracy for a flat Earth. Note that I am not saying this is the case, it is only one possibility out of many (and not the one I favor).
At no point have I ever made the claim I trust only that which I see firsthand. All I have said is that if the Earth is flat, then it is possible the video footage may be faked. I don't see why this is a controversial statement.

My favored hypothesis relies on unification. Of the four fundamental forces, there is known to be a connection between electromagnetism and the weak nuclear force. Fundamentally, they are aspects of the same force: the electroweak force. Unification is a holy grail of scientific research and is commonly held to be possible, the details are just unknown. My model posits that a reason for this is that they work under the flawed notion of a round earth.
If the strong nuclear force is modelled as a heightened form of gravity acting on quantum objects (that is: small objects), then we would have matter capable of attracting and repelling photons, in much the same way magnets work. The ice wall, as a refractive object, would likely be able to exert a great force and would alter the path of light.

10
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Universal Accelerator: A Disinfo Theory
« on: January 21, 2016, 09:20:14 PM »
I would never trust anybody who incorporated universal accelaration of the earth.  It makes no sense and it is used by disinformation trolls to sow confusion.
That may be so, but I wouldn't want to reject any possibility.
Certainly, my currently preferred model doesn't involve it, but I feel it's only fair to examine the possibility. It may make no sense in certain formulations, but tachyons would answer many questions.

11
There are a number of possible answers. It is 'proof' of nothing, please disabuse yourself of the notion such proofs exist in true science.

It could be evidence of (not proof of) a law governing the behavior of light that you haven't taken into account, or a tachyon flow causing a split image, or indeed, yes, a conspiracy: a faked image.

Isnt that just desperate conjecture with nothing to back it up?
Whats this new law of light behaviour then?
And honestly, tachyons!? They're an unpopular theoretical particle with no evidence behind it.
And no it's not fake imagery, that's silly. Please don't bring that up without some support from a CGI expert.

Have you heard of Occam's Razor?

There are multiple explanations, that's all I'm saying. Occam's Razor can't be applied to a fraction of a model; both the possibilities I referred to would have other consequences throughout the earth, it isn't an assumption meant for just one situation.
The evidence for the conjecture is the assumption that the Earth is flat. Find that as unlikely as you want, but to develop a working (and so testable) hypothesis, that's a necessary starting point.

12
Flat Earth Community / Re: Antarctica
« on: January 21, 2016, 07:51:08 PM »
We should also remember that there are several maps that include two poles, and that distance is not the only determining factor for how long it takes to complete a journey. It could be that the accelerator for the Earth speeds up motion at the rim, or that rotational forces move faster the further out you are. Jet streams are common knowledge.

13
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Universal Accelerator: A Hypothesis
« on: January 21, 2016, 07:47:04 PM »
Because I am. Now, in the hope of some actual discussion.

Hello.

I'm a scientist working on developing an FE model. While I'm open to being proven wrong, my typical experience of people arguing for RET is that they simply assume their model and the details therein are accurate. While some flat earthers may do the same, round earthers often claim superiority when their discussion tactics rarely are.
My primary concern is in developing a full hypothesis. It is impossible to reasonably test a model until a detailed hypothesis is reached, and so impossible to perform convincing tests without first establishing a model attainable in theory, so that will be my main concern: developing an FE model that could explain all observations and known results.
From this, we can derive and perform tests.

It must be done in this order. There are aspects I prefer of various hypotheses, I'm sorting through them to determine which work. (For example, one hypothesis supposes that Unification is impossible under the globe model, while neatly explaining a flat Earth. If all fundamental forces are linked, as variations in intensity of one another, much is explained. That's a hasty description).

Anyway, that's an introduction to who I am and why I'm here.

Onto the universal accelerator.

In models that explain why we are on the Earth's surface by means of universal acceleration, one key question to ask is what causes acceleration? Answers are rarely detailed, and don't explain, for example, how something may accelerate indefinitely. The energy required would be immense. While Einstein's model allows for unending acceleration, it will still involve getting arbitrarily close to the speed of light, and so would involve vast amounts of energy.
This is true, for conventional particles.
A hypothetical particle is a tachyon. These are particles which travel faster than the speed of light: they are not impossible, because at no point did they break the speed limit, or travel at the speed of light, they have always travelled faster. That 'always' is the key because, as we all know, it takes infinite energy to reach the speed of light. So, as time passes, and tachyons lose energy, they will in fact get faster: they will accelerate.
And this, simply, is it. For the question of what causes universal acceleration, tachyons are an elegant solution.

Those are the direct benefits.

A side-effect, also, is the fact that, as they move faster than light, it is impossible to see a tachyon approach you. Once it does, however, you will see two separate images: the tachyon as it goes away from you, and the 'ghost' of the tachyon going towards you in reverse (the closer parts of its path being visible first, as they're nearer). This duality has many applications, especially in the heavens: an object may be visible in two places at once.

14
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Universal Accelerator: A Hypothesis
« on: January 21, 2016, 07:36:37 PM »

But .. you said that you were open to being proven wrong? Why work with a model you so obviously already know is wrong? That will be a major bias in the development.

Please stop putting words in my mouth, this is my exact problem with discussing with round earthers. I have said absolutely nothing that even begins to come close to this wild speculation of yours. Why are you refusing to discuss the actual hypothesis?

15
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Universal Accelerator: A Hypothesis
« on: January 21, 2016, 07:29:39 PM »

Just a short question for clarification, if I may ask: You're a scientist, but you don't believe in space travel? What kind of scientist are you?

When did I say that?

Please can you try and discuss the hypothesis presented, rather than baseless speculation about the person behind the hypothesis.

16
There are a number of possible answers. It is 'proof' of nothing, please disabuse yourself of the notion such proofs exist in true science.

It could be evidence of (not proof of) a law governing the behavior of light that you haven't taken into account, or a tachyon flow causing a split image, or indeed, yes, a conspiracy: a faked image.

17
Flat Earth Theory / Universal Accelerator: A Hypothesis
« on: January 21, 2016, 07:05:28 PM »
Hello.

I'm a scientist working on developing an FE model. While I'm open to being proven wrong, my typical experience of people arguing for RET is that they simply assume their model and the details therein are accurate. While some flat earthers may do the same, round earthers often claim superiority when their discussion tactics rarely are.
My primary concern is in developing a full hypothesis. It is impossible to reasonably test a model until a detailed hypothesis is reached, and so impossible to perform convincing tests without first establishing a model attainable in theory, so that will be my main concern: developing an FE model that could explain all observations and known results.
From this, we can derive and perform tests.

It must be done in this order. There are aspects I prefer of various hypotheses, I'm sorting through them to determine which work. (For example, one hypothesis supposes that Unification is impossible under the globe model, while neatly explaining a flat Earth. If all fundamental forces are linked, as variations in intensity of one another, much is explained. That's a hasty description).

Anyway, that's an introduction to who I am and why I'm here.

Onto the universal accelerator.

In models that explain why we are on the Earth's surface by means of universal acceleration, one key question to ask is what causes acceleration? Answers are rarely detailed, and don't explain, for example, how something may accelerate indefinitely. The energy required would be immense. While Einstein's model allows for unending acceleration, it will still involve getting arbitrarily close to the speed of light, and so would involve vast amounts of energy.
This is true, for conventional particles.
A hypothetical particle is a tachyon. These are particles which travel faster than the speed of light: they are not impossible, because at no point did they break the speed limit, or travel at the speed of light, they have always travelled faster. That 'always' is the key because, as we all know, it takes infinite energy to reach the speed of light. So, as time passes, and tachyons lose energy, they will in fact get faster: they will accelerate.
And this, simply, is it. For the question of what causes universal acceleration, tachyons are an elegant solution.

Those are the direct benefits.

A side-effect, also, is the fact that, as they move faster than light, it is impossible to see a tachyon approach you. Once it does, however, you will see two separate images: the tachyon as it goes away from you, and the 'ghost' of the tachyon going towards you in reverse (the closer parts of its path being visible first, as they're nearer). This duality has many applications, especially in the heavens: an object may be visible in two places at once.

Pages: [1]