1

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Hey Flat Earthers, Just wondering...

« on: March 02, 2018, 06:58:50 AM »

Your close family lied to you and you are perpetuating that lie here on a forum.

There are no commercial flights that take place within the Antarctic Circle.

There are no commercial flights that fly within a few thousand miles of the Ice Wall.

Dude.
You can literally go there. To the actual South Pole. It's very expensive, because it's niche, to say the least, but there are companies who will take you there.

https://www.polar-quest.com/trips/antarctica/fly-to-the-south-pole

Shouting "fake" and "lies" at everything which doesn't match your world view is not being a skeptic, it's just denial.

Listen, this is certainly not a case of shouting "fake and lies."

The OP made a statement (people on flights from Australia to South America can see Antarctica) that was patently untrue.

How is that untrue? Here's a video of flying from Australia to South America on a commercial jet and seeing Antarctica:

Lots of snow and ice does not equal Antarctica.

It is a fact no commercial flights take place within any portion of Antarctic airspace.

You are flat (pun intended) out wrong as always. Quantas from Sydney to Santiago flies over the antartic coastline. Quantas also offer 13 hour sightseeing flights to Antartica.

2

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Hey Flat Earthers, Just wondering...

« on: March 01, 2018, 03:00:19 PM »

So, how have you established that these expeditions crossed the entirety of Antarctica, rather than, for example, simply following a compass?

You seem very intent on pretending that I'm proposing some sort of conspiracy or whatever. If that floats your boat, so be it, but then you're arguing against a straw man. Not very useful.

Visit this webpage https://gjeldnes.com/the-longest-march/ and you can read all about it. With a bare minimum of effort you will find plenty of documentation of other expeditions crossing over other parts. There is really nothing more to explore in Antartica.

3

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Hey Flat Earthers, Just wondering...

« on: February 28, 2018, 08:51:30 PM »

Pete, you understand that Antarctica has been traversed many times now.
A circumnavigation of the globe has been done via both poles.

Those are some nice opinions you have there.

This got ignored in another thread, so I am giving it another go;

There has been several expeditions to Antartica as I am sure you know Pete, since you mention the research stations. Since Roald Amundsen was the first to reach the South Pole in 1914, Antartica has been crossed on foot, by planes and circumnavigated. No ice wall has hindered these expeditions, and Antartica is surrounded by sea on all sides. No ice wall extends from Antartica making it impossible to circumnavigate, and no "edge" has been found on either side of it.

In 2012 a Norwegian expedition followed Roald Amundsens route to the South Pole starting from Ross Barrier up the Axel Heiberg glacier. From the South Pole they went to Hercules Intlet. The went on foot the entire distance. They started by sea and reached the sea. No extended ice wall was observed, and no "edge" found.

In 2005/2006 Norwegian Rune Gjeldnes went by foot from the Novo Station in Queen Maud land via the South Pole to Terra Nova Bay. Sea at starting point, sea at end point. Again, no extended ice wall observed, and no "edge" found.

Links and references can be provided. Actually; I also have Rune Gjeldnes phone number if you would like debate his observational skills with him.

4

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Feeling of Motion

« on: February 28, 2018, 08:27:21 PM »

Flat earthers say that the earth isn't spinning because we can't feel it spinning. Why can't we feel the earth infinitely accelerating if it is?

You don't feel the earth pushing up against your body?

Tom, can you describe the feeling of earth pushing up against your body? I can’t say I feel that. It feels more like I am pressing against earth.

I am familiar with your chair analogy, but how do you explain the feeling of falling? That feeling differs significantly from the feeling of a object coming towards you at speed. Then again feelings are rather subjective...

5

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Astronauts return from ISS

« on: February 28, 2018, 11:02:36 AM »

I feel that some of the more balanced FE people would try to answer this and maybe try to prove it is a hoax. Sadly it seems that those people are dodging these subjects because they know that the "hoax/conspiracy" policy really isn`t viable. I am still hoping though...

It's interesting because it seems they don't feel the need to provide evidence of a hoax.
They regard the earth being flat as an obvious truth. How they can claim that remains a mystery to me. If it was "obvious" then why do so few people believe it?
But they then see no need to back up claims.
There was very little response to the Falcon Heavy launch on here apart from Pete's "Just 'cos I saw it on the internet, doesn't make it true" article.
And he is correct, but it doesn't make it false either and this wasn't just "on the internet", it was covered by every major news source, witnessed by hundreds of people and tracked by amateur astronomers who verified that it was where Musk claimed it to be.
So I'd say it's up to the FE community to prove that this was faked, and I haven't seen any of them post any credible evidence that it was.
But, as I said, they don't feel the need to. They "prove" themselves right by doing what any conspiracy theorist must do, clinging on to scraps of evidence which show they may be correct and ignoring or dismissing as faked (with no supporting evidence) the tsunami of facts which show them to be wrong.

Isn't the usual response that it's "An obvious fake"?

I have seen that response from a lot of people here, and it is really dissapointing! Some, like Tom and Pete, at least try to engage seriously. However, it seem that wont touch threads like this. They claim to have higher standards in terms of evidence, but it seems that these higher standards only apply to those who disagrees with their view. It`s not that hard to come up with substantial evidence of pictures/videos that have been doctored with.

It is important to engage in this debate, because it is dangerous to ignore people with these beliefs. Sadly, these days it is too easy to misguide people!

6

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Astronauts return from ISS

« on: February 28, 2018, 07:55:39 AM »

Interesting news this morning: http://www.newsweek.com/watch-live-nasa-astronauts-soyuz-roscosmos-iss-land-822523

So, what is TFES thoughts on this?

Our FE friends haven't been posting much recently so I'll step in and field this one for them:

They're actors. Not because there's any evidence of them being actors (sidebar: it must be expensive to find an actor with a masters degrees in applied science on the books at Stanford University) but because any evidence that disagrees with my personal worldview can't be real and has to be the result of a massive conspiracy.

P.S. — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_astronauts_by_name Here's a list of all 560 accomplished, multi-national scientists who """claim""" to have been to space, the vast majority of which are still living and so NASA is currently paying off. Incredible how not one of these people took the infinite fame and money available to them if they were the one to blow it all open.

Well, that would not be a surprising answer based on other posts. However, I feel that some of the more balanced FE people would try to answer this and maybe try to prove it is a hoax. Sadly it seems that those people are dodging these subjects because they know that the "hoax/conspiracy" policy really isn`t viable. I am still hoping though...

7

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Hey Flat Earthers, Just wondering...

« on: February 28, 2018, 07:45:39 AM »

So, if Antarctica is not a ring, where does that leave us?

You provided no reasoning to conclude this. Your friend claims to have seen a very small subsection of the ice wall, and "other than glaciers" (i.e. literally what makes up the ice wall) they couldn't see it.

Why, yes, of course. The other day I fell off the ladder, and other than perceiving a downward acceleration of ~9.8ms^-2 relative to the Earth, I could not perceive any gravity. Given that gravity no longer exists, where does that leave us?

Well Pete, Antartica has been crossed on ski, snowmobiles, by planes and circumnavigated by ships. By now there is actually quite a few people who has done it. Still no reports of an ice wall surrounding the earth. Please read answer the other post in Q & A.

8

Flat Earth Theory / Astronauts return from ISS

« on: February 28, 2018, 07:08:30 AM »

Interesting news this morning: http://www.newsweek.com/watch-live-nasa-astronauts-soyuz-roscosmos-iss-land-822523

So, what is TFES thoughts on this?

9

Flat Earth Theory / Re: This is a serious, curious question.

« on: February 27, 2018, 12:12:32 PM »

Actually, since you state that the ice wall has been circumnavigated many times you also admit that the earth is round. How else could you circumnavigate the ice wall?

"In the ball-Earth model Antarctica is an ice continent which covers the bottom of the ball from 78 degrees South latitude to 90 and is therefore not more than 12,000 miles in circumference. Many early explorers including Captain Cook and James Clark Ross, however, in attempting Antarctic circumnavigation took 3 to 4 years and clocked 50-60,000 miles around. The British ship Challenger also made an indirect but complete circumnavigation of Antarctica traversing 69,000 miles." - 200 Proofs Earth is Not a Spinning Ball

As I have pointed out to you in other posts, you are refering to early explorers. Why do you ignore every explorer that has circumnavigated Antartica since then? There is even a boat race now that circumnavigates Antartica. Without any disrespect to the early explorers, but they did not always know what they were doing! Colombus was a great explorer but he is a prime example of how little they knew about the world at that time. Cook and Ross does not by any means prove your point, nor does it answer my questions.

10

Flat Earth Theory / Re: What is beyond the Ice Wall?

« on: February 27, 2018, 11:32:44 AM »

I would really like if you guys could revert back to the topic of this thread! "What is beyond the ice wall?"

It has been proven what is beyond the ice wall (yes, it does excist when you go in to the Ross Sea in Antartica but it does not go around the world and there is no "edge" beyond). It is more land, more sea in every direction. This has been proven, and if you deny the proof of this then you must prove otherwise.

11

Flat Earth Theory / Re: This is a serious, curious question.

« on: February 27, 2018, 10:40:47 AM »

When you look at. the wall is it a concave or a convex shape and how long is it?

How on Earth do you hope to establish that by simply looking?

By whom

Anyone who wanted to travel there.

and did they not attempt to scale it to see what is beyond?

They did. There are a fair few research stations out there, you know?

How do know it goes around the whole earth?

It has been circumnavigated many times.

There seem to be a lot of claims about this wall with very little evidence.

Yes. I am a big fan of accepting that some things are sufficiently evident as to not require evidence in conversation. For example, I would not demand evidence of you having lungs, or that you have consumed some food within the last 5 months.

I do not quite understand the difference between the ice wall and the "edge"! Is there supposedly an ice wall that extends from Antartica and surrounds the world? Or is the "edge" beyond the ice wall with sea in between? Does the ice wall extend to the "edge"?

There has been several expeditions to Antartica as I am sure you know Pete, since you mention the research stations. Since Roald Amundsen was the first to reach the South Pole in 1914, Antartica has been crossed on foot, by planes and circumnavigated. No ice wall has hindered these expeditions, and Antartica is surrounded by sea on all sides. No ice wall extends from Antartica making it impossible to circumnavigate, and no "edge" has been found on either side of it.

In 2012 a Norwegian expedition followed Roald Amundsens route to the South Pole starting from Ross Barrier up the Axel Heiberg glacier. From the South Pole they went to Hercules Intlet. The went on foot the entire distance. They started by sea and reached the sea. No extended ice wall was observed, and no "edge" found.

In 2005/2006 Norwegian Rune Gjeldnes went by foot from the Novo Station in Queen Maud land via the South Pole to Terra Nova Bay. Sea at starting point, sea at end point. Again, no extended ice wall observed, and no "edge" found.

From the Ross Sea up the Ross Ice Shelf and towards the Axel Heiberg glacier it is about 2800m. Then the glacier takes you another 300m up. It is definately an ice wall, but it does not extend further out from Antartica, and it is not impossible to cross.

The explanation you give here Pete makes no sense at all, so I am eager to learn more from you how this ice wall is supposed to go around the world.

Actually, since you state that the ice wall has been circumnavigated many times you also admit that the earth is round. How else could you circumnavigate the ice wall?

12

Flat Earth Theory / Re: New member with one question for FE members

« on: February 16, 2018, 08:53:48 AM »

Hello,
     My nephew recently has become a believer in a flat earth. Why? I dont know but thats his choice... The question I have is this. Lets say Sir Richard Branson is able to complete construction of and tests of the craft he wants to take average folks into space in the next 5 years. If this happens and a member of the FE society, and by that I mean a member who is well known "around" the globe takes a flight and sees the earth is round, when said person returns to earth and says yes the Earth is indeed round as a marble, would that end this debate for those who think its flat? And one other question I have is since all other planets are round why would it be that the Earth is flat? One FE member a few years back was asked by Elon Musk how did they know that Mars was round and not flat their response was... because we can actually observer Mars and see that Mars is round through a telescope etc.. Now I am not asking any of this trying to be an ass, but asking as an educated fellow who likes to ask questions and have a civil discussion/debate and possibly learn something, even though learning is a tougher task now at 47 as im pretty sure i killed a few brains cells over the years. Thanks for any opinions and remember... she's as round as a marble i bet the farm..

Branson's prototype "exploded" at 45,000 feet. I personally think that no one outside the inner circle (of the few who control space) will ever be allowed to get there to see an expanse as far as the naked eye can look in any direction. Time will tell, but one can be certain that "IF" this happens, it will be auspiciously played out for months on MSM and with a groomed group of passengers and pilots... more than likely the lot of them all wearing Freemason rings (i.e. Apollo astronauts).

Respect

Wow, so many assertions, so little proof. What "inner circle" are you even talking about? Even simple ballistic missiles can make it into space (not orbit) and see what's up there. These are owned by some of the shadiest and worst characters in the world.

How do you know, personally, that they make it into space or otherwise? Aren't you making assertions now?

So, Sydney, the only evidence you will accept is what you experience personally? What is the point of this debate forum then? Why do you even bother to be a part of discussions? Recently I traveled to Sweden, where I went to a pub to watch a televised transmission of my favourite soccer team. I did not experience the match by attending the arena physically, but I personally watched it on TV along side others. Are you saying I cannot trust the result? If I follow your reasoning, the transmission could have been faked. There are so many accounts of launches into space (using the wide meaning of space), but you dismiss everything by saying that if it is not experienced personally you cannot trust them. That is not debating, and it also proves that you do not have an open mind and are more of a closed thinker than any RE debater in here. Many of the RE debaters in here actually acknowledes FE beliefs and engages in a meaningful debate by bringing forth proof that their beliefs might be wrong. You, however in this thread and other, do not show the same courtasy by trying to prove them wrong. You are just denying everything. Try to prove your beliefs and opinions, or at least give an effort to explain meaningfully why you believe what you believe.

13

Flat Earth Theory / Re: The Ice Wall Must Be Very Tall

« on: February 16, 2018, 07:45:33 AM »

The Challenger sailed as far north as Japan in the Pacific, and as far north as Halifax (and London, of course) in the Atlantic. This could hardly be called a circumnavigation of Antarctica for purposes of size comparison.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenger_expedition

Fair enough. What about Captain Cook?

Yes, what about Captain Cook? What did he prove? Since you prefer to use 17th and 18th centrury explorers to prove your standings, that actually paved the way for more recent conclusions, how about Ranulph Fiennes and Charles Burton? How do you expalin that? While you are at it; explain the rather long list of explorers since the 15th century that hav circumnavigated the globe.

14

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Do rockets like SpaceX Falcon Heavy actually reach speeds of approx 17, 500 mph?

« on: February 15, 2018, 01:12:23 PM »

A Physics 122 class presentation states the ISS is @ 226 km.

The state of university edumacation...

Geez, I wonder what their free-body diagram of the ISS would look like....

Any rocket surgeons here willing to tackle that one?

It is actually at 226 miles, not km....maybe that will make it easier for you to understand...or not...

15

Flat Earth Theory / Re: The Ice Wall Must Be Very Tall

« on: February 15, 2018, 08:45:05 AM »

In 1773 Captain Cook became the first modern explorer known to have breached the Antarctic Circle and reached the ice barrier. During three voyages, lasting three years and eight days, Captain Cook and crew sailed a total of 60,000 miles along the Antarctic coastline never once finding an inlet or path through or beyond the massive glacial wall! Captain Cook wrote: “The ice extended east 57 and west far beyond the reach of our sight, while the southern half of the horizon was illuminated by rays of light which were reflected from the ice to a considerable height. It was indeed my opinion that this ice extends quite to the pole, or perhaps joins some land to which it has been fixed since creation.”

On October 5th, 1839 another explorer, James Clark Ross began a series of Antarctic voyages lasting a total of 4 years and 5 months. Ross and his crew sailed two heavily armored warships thousands of miles, losing many men from hurricanes and icebergs, looking for an entry point beyond the southern glacial wall. Upon first confronting the massive barrier Captain Ross wrote of the wall, “extending from its eastern extreme point as far as the eye could discern to the eastward. It presented an extraordinary appearance, gradually increasing in height, as we got nearer to it, and proving at length to be a perpendicular cliff of ice, between one hundred and fifty feet and two hundred feet above the level of the sea, perfectly flat and level at the top, and without any fissures or promontories on its even seaward face. We might with equal chance of success try to sail through the cliffs of Dover, as to penetrate such a mass.”

“Yes, but we can circumnavigate the South easily enough,‟ is often said by those who don't know, The British Ship Challenger recently completed the circuit of the Southern region - indirectly, to be sure - but she was three years about it, and traversed nearly 69,000 miles - a stretch long enough to have taken her six times round on the globular hypothesis.” -William Carpenter, “100 Proofs the Earth is Not a Globe” (78)

Dear Mr. Sydney; Nowadays we actually circumnavigate Antartica for fun http://www.acronautic.com/antartica-cup-ocean-race/

16

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Your map is wrong.

« on: February 14, 2018, 11:04:31 PM »

Radar facilities are based on land, and each one has a range of about 200 miles (320 kilometers). So passenger jets on transoceanic flights do go off the radar map for a period of time — but that doesn't mean nobody's keeping tabs on them. The flight crews use combinations of high-frequency (HF) radio, satellite-based voice communication and text-data networks to report to ATC [air traffic control] the exact time, position and flight level when the crossing begins. They then update ATC with voice or text progress reports at defined geographic locations and time intervals. Airlines file flight plans, and airplanes are expected to arrive at certain points by certain times. When an airplane crew fails to check in at its next checkpoint, that is when an alarm is raised. This case is an extremely rare event, especially with the highly technologically advanced aircraft in the air today.

(Source: Livescience.com)

Entire source is demonstrably INCORRECT AND FALSE based on MH370 results.

If this source was accurate, then MH370 never happens.

MH370 happens because the requirements aren't wide spread, and even now only about 1,000 planes have the tech installed to turn on tracking in the event of an emergency. Because upgrading old planes is relatively expensive when doing a lot of them. Not to mention we have a search area for the MH370 precisely BECAUSE of the checkpoint system. Them not finding anything yet is not evidence the source is inaccurate.

The source is inaccurate and incorrect and it also lays waste to the legitimacy of flightaware and other so-called flight tracking systems, especially south of the Equator.

The MH370 and the written ship logs of Cook, Weddell, Ross, et.al., continue to support the theory that distances across the waters south of the Equator are NOT in line with a globe Earth.

The source is inaccurate and incorrect? You were provided with four other sources that supported this source. Are they also inaccurate and incorrect? How? Other than your personal opinion, can you specify sources that is in support of your claim?

Also, you say that it lays waste to different flight trackers. Well thats a no! If anything it supports them, by confirming a certain flights track.

Are you referring to James Weddells voyage in 1822-24? If so; you then draw a straight historical line between him and MH370. Actually ignoring...well...every piece of updated information in between. Obviously his findings were coherent with FE, but he was certainly not correct. May I remind you that his journey was more than 200 years ago. I dont understand also how MH370 would prove Weddell correct. Can you elaborate?

17

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Your map is wrong.

« on: February 14, 2018, 05:52:49 PM »

Radar facilities are based on land, and each one has a range of about 200 miles (320 kilometers). So passenger jets on transoceanic flights do go off the radar map for a period of time — but that doesn't mean nobody's keeping tabs on them. The flight crews use combinations of high-frequency (HF) radio, satellite-based voice communication and text-data networks to report to ATC [air traffic control] the exact time, position and flight level when the crossing begins. They then update ATC with voice or text progress reports at defined geographic locations and time intervals. Airlines file flight plans, and airplanes are expected to arrive at certain points by certain times. When an airplane crew fails to check in at its next checkpoint, that is when an alarm is raised. This case is an extremely rare event, especially with the highly technologically advanced aircraft in the air today.

(Source: Livescience.com)

Entire source is demonstrably INCORRECT AND FALSE based on MH370 results.

If this source was accurate, then MH370 never happens.

Did you read it? I’m pretty sure it says: «This case is an extremely rare event,...». It happened to MH370, it happened before that tragic accident but hopefully never again. Even so, that case does not support your claim that it is impossible to track flights at the southern hemisphere. It is being done continuosly. Several links have been provided, but you choose to ignore the evidence due to a few rare events that also happens in the northern hemisphere.

18

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Your map is wrong.

« on: February 14, 2018, 04:45:48 PM »

Two flights go missing in the southern hemisphere and it is proof we can't track flights? I guess the thousands of successful flights were just luck. I'm sure it also has nothing to do with the fact that the southern hemisphere has a far larger ratio of water to land than the northern...

No, the proof that we cannot track flights in the Southern Hemisplane is the fact we cannot track flights in the Southern Hemisplane.

There is no documented evidence a flight in the Southern Hemisplane has ever been completely tracked from poit of origin to destination utilizing any software/interface.

The reason we cannot accurately track flights in the Southern Hemisplane is precisely due to the vast expanse of ocean (cost of technology, relative dearth of flights in the region, etc.)

So you want to spam the forum with flight tracking apps that are not capable of tracking southern hemiplane flights?

Did you... did you look at the sites? They were tracking at least a few dozen flights below the equator, meaning they were in the southern hemisphere.

Of course you will se a red line (or whatever indicator of a plane is utilized) at some point on the monitor, but that will invariably drop from the screen as the flight is lost during the day.

Radar facilities are based on land, and each one has a range of about 200 miles (320 kilometers). So passenger jets on transoceanic flights do go off the radar map for a period of time — but that doesn't mean nobody's keeping tabs on them. The flight crews use combinations of high-frequency (HF) radio, satellite-based voice communication and text-data networks to report to ATC [air traffic control] the exact time, position and flight level when the crossing begins. They then update ATC with voice or text progress reports at defined geographic locations and time intervals. Airlines file flight plans, and airplanes are expected to arrive at certain points by certain times. When an airplane crew fails to check in at its next checkpoint, that is when an alarm is raised. This case is an extremely rare event, especially with the highly technologically advanced aircraft in the air today.

(Source: Livescience.com)

19

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Understanding the Psychology (or Mindset) of a Flat Earther

« on: February 14, 2018, 04:19:22 PM »

Technology isn't invented based on the Scientific Method. It is actually invented with a more emperical process closer to to the Zetetic process.

It has to be mindful of the science behind it though.
Planes get off the ground because the science if gravity and lift and drag are well understood and planes are built accordingly.
No-one builds planes based on UA or "Celestial Gravitation".
The fact that airplanes and other technology demonstrably work gives confidence in the underlying science.

"Science theory held us up for years. When we threw out all science, started from experiment and experience, then we invented the airplane." -- The Wright Brothers

"The science of today is the technology of tomorrow." - Edward Teller

Probably not the best person to quote from in this forum, but that every piece of technology we have has its basis in science is a fact. I cannot begin to understand why you have this need to separate different lines of "research" in regards to choosing one above the other. Empiricsm certainly is important, but not valid as a stand alone tool. You cant have one without the other.

20

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Understanding the Psychology (or Mindset) of a Flat Earther

« on: February 14, 2018, 04:06:43 PM »

Technology isn't invented based on the Scientific Method. It is actually invented with a more emperical process closer to to the Zetetic process.

It has to be mindful of the science behind it though.
Planes get off the ground because the science if gravity and lift and drag are well understood and planes are built accordingly.
No-one builds planes based on UA or "Celestial Gravitation".
The fact that airplanes and other technology demonstrably work gives confidence in the underlying science.

"Science theory held us up for years. When we threw out all science, started from experiment and experience, then we invented the airplane." -- The Wright Brothers

"The science of today is the technology of tomorrow." - Edward Teller