1

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Why is the Earth not round

« on: February 23, 2018, 12:21:10 AM »

Could this be the geometry?

edit (of the first video)

2

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Understanding the Psychology (or Mindset) of a Flat Earther

« on: February 20, 2018, 10:08:38 PM »

Somewhat off topic from our already tangential conversation, have you ever considered why the diameter cannot fully be translated into the circumference? At least as far as we know pi has no end.

So? There's limiting behavior that approaches pi. That's what limits and calculus were developed around. This is the same concept as adding 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + ... = 1; you never get there, but you get arbitrarily close.

It's still a far cry from pi = 4, regardless of how you slice it. The ratio gets progressively closer to pi as you increase the size of the circle. (Of course, for all intents and purposes, it is pi at measurable scales)

I didn't ask that in relation to pi=4, just wondering if you ever thought about it or why it is.

3

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Understanding the Psychology (or Mindset) of a Flat Earther

« on: February 20, 2018, 07:12:18 AM »

Somewhat off topic from our already tangential conversation, have you ever considered why the diameter cannot fully be translated into the circumference? At least as far as we know pi has no end.

4

Flat Earth Theory / Re: How a conspiracy theory can go awry and cloud rational thinking

« on: February 18, 2018, 09:49:01 PM »

All of you have likely seen the attached video at some point.

Within this debate section, I thought that it would be a good build on my previous post about Understanding the Psychology and Mindset of a Flat Earther.

I don't believe that Flat Earthers are crazy or nuts. But, what I do believe is that a Conspiracy Mindset of distrust can become so much, that it tends to cloud rational thinking.

Many Round Earthers go out of their way to explain laws of physics or show experiments that do everything to prove that the Earth is Round. But, that's not really going to help; once a mindset is established, your likely not going to change the mind of the Flat Earther, short of a Flat Earther going to space and seeing it for themselves that the Earth is Round. Even then, the push-back will likely be that they were looking through a fish-eyed lens.

There are many Round Earthers on this debate forum that can't understand how a Flat Earther could rationally conclude that the UN/ the US Government/ all of the government agencies of the world/ NASA/ SpaceX/ etc.. have guards posted on Antarctica that are preventing people from being able to see the 150 foot icewall (or the edges of the earth) because it is all part of a concerted vast conspiracy to hide a Flat Earth in order to maximize these agencies profilts and to hide money embezzlement. Of course this is a ridiculous and irrational notion, BUT it won't ever be for a conspiracy theorists Mindset.     

Where are you getting your information from? Our wiki says that there is no Flat Earth Conspiracy and that they are merely mistaken about the earth's shape.

That might sound more palatable but I cannot imagine how it could be true. I mean, if all the photographic or video evidence for a round earth is faked, that is a conspiracy, if it isn't faked, then it is round, right?

5

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Understanding the Psychology (or Mindset) of a Flat Earther

« on: February 16, 2018, 09:01:56 PM »

"Claiming pi=4 is mathematically incorrect no matter how you spin it"

If only that pun was intentional

"I show that in all kinematic situations, π is 4. For all those going ballistic over my title, I repeat and stress that this paper applies to kinematic situations, not to static or geometric situations. I am analyzing the equivalent of an orbit, which is caused by motion and includes the time variable. In that situation, π becomes 4"

BTW I wasn't really arguing, I am new here so I am not familiar with your past posts saying space is quantized.

6

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Understanding the Psychology (or Mindset) of a Flat Earther

« on: February 16, 2018, 08:21:41 PM »

"There's the thread where Tom Bishop denies the continuous representation of space often used in classical physics.

There's the thread where Tom Bishop claims pi = 4 with a fallacious geometric proof, not understanding the difference between limiting areas and perimeters."

Continuous representation of space? Unless I am misunderstanding the point, space is not continuous, it is quantized.

I believe the originator of the pi=4 is this fellow http://milesmathis.com/pi2.html
Might find better info there. Your kneejerk reaction will be "b.s" but this guy has a lot of interesting out of the box thinking.

7

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Sun and Moon Orbit

« on: February 13, 2018, 09:00:34 AM »

Additionally, there needs to be an accounting of the force required to change the velocity of the sun as its orbit changes in the single pole model, no? Since it's traversing a larger circle during a daily orbit during winter, the speed of the sun must gradually accelerate between summer and winter equinox, then decelerate as the circle becomes smaller once again.

Precisely, I tried getting that across in my OP but was afraid the more basic point would be lost, so i deleted it. Yours is nicely more concise.

8

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Sun and Moon Orbit

« on: February 13, 2018, 06:32:00 AM »

Perpendicular isn’t right either.  The arc is at the angle of your latitude.

TY for the correction.

9

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Sun and Moon Orbit

« on: February 13, 2018, 05:51:10 AM »

I realize this question cannot really be answered, well it could but would require some sophisticated mathematical ability which I don't expect most of us have (on either side of the debate).

I also, as I am sure many of us do, wonder how they explain why te sun only appears to arc perpendicular to the surface instead of parallel

10

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Car in Space

« on: February 10, 2018, 09:39:20 AM »

Apparently the FES tweeted this is fake... yet no one in here seems to agree with the FES twitter, who are they representing?

https://www.space.com/39628-flat-earthers-spacex-falcon-heavy-conspiracy.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

11

Flat Earth Theory / Re: New member with one question for FE members

« on: February 10, 2018, 03:33:35 AM »

Branson's craft will only get to the edge of space and come back down again. At the edge of space you are looking down at a circle, and will therefore see some curvature.

See: https://wiki.tfes.org/High_Altitude_Photographs

I am glad you bring this up, it rather annoyed me when talking to FErs that they disputed pictures that indicated a curve because both models would have curved edges, one in 2 dimensions the other in 3 dimensions.

12

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Car in Space

« on: February 09, 2018, 07:43:57 PM »

It seems as though you are insinuating that you think it is false but refuse to actually say it because you cannot justify it. Lets face it, you know it was real but your preconceived belief procludes you from admitting it. The only thing you can do is compartmentalize it so you don't have to address it.

As much as your programming wants you to dismiss it, I believe deep down you know it to be true.

Am I wrong?

Sounds to me like you have a very strong preconceived notion about who I am and how I behave. It completely contradicts my day-to-day behaviour. You are wrong, and would do well to listen to your own advice about breaking out of paradigms.

Pete, I would like to know whether you think the launch was real or not. Do you think the live feed was fake? If I remember, you do seem to be one of the FEers who was more open to the concept of space. (yes, I know that is oddly worded, but I think you know what I mean)

I am undecided as of yet. I have my reasons to doubt it, but doubt is not the default state for me. I'm working through it at my own pace, and it may yet turn out that I'll simply remain undecided about this particular event. You won't hear any pompous and brazen statements from me at this stage - I only do that when I'm fairly strongly convinced of something.

I am pleased that I am wrong, but in light of the scant details you have provided, that was the most accurate assessment I could formulate.

As I mentioned, my paradigm has been repeatedly shattered, at this point, instead of tryint to erect another one, I try to take in as much info as possible and make the best sense of it I can. I cannot imagine any new data that would surprise me anymore.

When I first heard about flat earth, I was skeptical as I am with everything, but I also knew that most conspiracy theories have some elements of truth. Some of my family were into it so I figured I should check it our with an open mind.

I was disappointed this time. I challenge almost every aspect of mainstream science, particularly in physics, so I am fairly predisposed in entertaining typical ideas.

I just want to know what I am missing i.e. how others find it compelling.

13

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Car in Space

« on: February 09, 2018, 04:10:30 AM »

Great contribution Nick.

I really hope that convinces at least one person to reconsider.

14

Flat Earth Theory / Sun and Moon Orbit

« on: February 08, 2018, 08:56:46 PM »

I am sure this has been brought up before but I haven't seen it nor could I find any info on wiki.

What do the Sun and Moon orbit, and why is the Moons orbit relatively circular meanwhile the Suns is quite irregular and eccentric?

For simplicities sake, if we assume Newtonian physics, they have to be acted on by another force in order to change direction (of velocity).

Has anyone taken a stab at explaining this?

We cannot say the Sun and Moon are co-orbitting for the reason of orbital regularity mentioned above, so there must be another mechanism of force.

15

Flat Earth Theory / Re: The International Space Station

« on: February 08, 2018, 08:34:09 PM »

I've already started a thread basically about this same thing. It was stated that it was probably a chunk of debris from the creation of the earth that got caught in the upper atmoplane that just resembles the ISS. I don't think you will get a better explanation than that.

That argument is invalid. You can almost easily predict the transit of the ISS, and i doubt anyone can predict a transit of a chunk of space debris, that just so happends to resemble the ISS perfectly.

I don't see why we couldn't predict their transit...

With all of the satellites and space junk, they HAVE to track it all. It is a national security and indeed 'world security' issue. They have to know if a GPS satellite or comm or spy satellite or finance related satellite will go down.

16

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Car in Space

« on: February 08, 2018, 08:11:28 PM »

And Pete, I'm still waiting to hear why you say you have no opinion, yet dismiss the people who claim they were actually there and tell them that their decision is Zealous and a snappy decision.

I do not dismiss them. I've done anything but that. I said (to paraphrase) "You saw what you saw, and that's fine by me. We might disagree, but there's nothing wrong with disagreeing." You are extremely intent on claiming that I said things I didn't say, and you simply refuse to accept any attempts at clarification. If you're not interested in what I'm actually saying, why ask? Why not just debate your strawman in the comfort and privacy of your own bedroom?

"To be clear, the intention of that post was not to assert that it's false (though you can guess my thoughts on the matter)."

It seems as though you are insinuating that you think it is false but refuse to actually say it because you cannot justify it. Lets face it, you know it was real but your preconceived belief procludes you from admitting it. The only thing you can do is compartmentalize it so you don't have to address it.

As much as your programming wants you to dismiss it, I believe deep down you know it to be true.

Am I wrong?

I have had my entire paradigm wrecked many times, I know it isn't pleasant, it can take a long time to try to piece things back together in another way that makes sense, but we have to be honest with ourself.

I actually find it way more exciting just taking in information and letting the pieces fall where they may.

17

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Car in Space

« on: February 08, 2018, 07:31:09 PM »

Prove that it's not real...

Nice, asking to prove a negative.

Put another way, he's saying prove that the footage and eyewitness accounts are fake. It's not unfalsifiable

The only thing I asked you to prove is that there is in fact a roadster in orbit. Instead of saying "I can't" you'd rather post incorrectly about fallacies.

Many people watched it get put there Rushy, that's the proof. Although to you, that's not enough proof that people watched and recorded it get put there. Because as we said, Even though people have shown proof, Your mindset is that of "If I didn't see it, It's not true"

There was a string of comments between Pete and I that were about his non-opinion and us being "Zealous people" for being able to make a snappy decision about what really happened while we were watching it happen first hand. it was right at the end of page 2, now there's a page 3, and those comments between Pete and I are gone.

Users can edit/remove their own posts. It wasn't moderation/admin. I see your "zealous" posts/quotes in this thread.

I do not yet have an opinion strong enough to bring to the table. That's why I haven't brought one. Unlike some of the more zealous individuals here, I don't make snap decisions about things like this.

ones like this, Junker, Pete and I had 2-3 posts after this one on page 2 that  You see my Zealous Posts/Quotes that were the recent ones of me asking him for a response after the original ones are gone. There were multiple ones after the last post of mine on page 2. I don't know if Pete deleted his posts, but I sure didn't and they're no longer there.

Same here. I thought I was going nuts for a minute.

18

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Car in Space

« on: February 08, 2018, 07:21:57 PM »

Prove that it's not real...

Nice, asking to prove a negative.

Also, Admins who keep deleting comments, Why do you keep doing that?

No one is deleting comments. Sometimes off-topic comments will be split from a thread and moved to another forum/topic. I don't see any recent comments in this thread being split or moved.

Yesterday this thread was 2 pages long when I responded, today I looked through the thread 5 times looking for my post and it wasn't there. About an hour ago I noticed the first response on page 2 was from Pete today, now I look and it is different and my post magically reappeared.

I have no idea what is going on, just letting you know what I am experiencing (I am on my mobile, but I havent seen this on other forums on my mobile).

Regards

19

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Car in Space

« on: February 08, 2018, 06:18:19 PM »

I see Pete has put something on the home page along the lines of "Just because I saw it on the internet, doesn't mean it's true".

To be clear, the intention of that post was not to assert that it's false (though you can guess my thoughts on the matter). It is mostly an appeal to the immense number of people who contacted me (mostly on Facebook and Twitter) to take things with more caution. If, after evaluating the material carefully, they personally decide that it's of value to them, fine. But it's not the "gotcha!" many think it is.

This was in relation to features for the Tesla and not that he doesn't believe Musk in general.

Of course. It was not for one moment my intention to suggest that Wozniak said "omg the Earth is flat!" - merely to point out that corporations don't even trust one another. I provided a link to the source for those who want to read it in its full context.

When you say "though you can guess my thoughts on the matter" do you not find that telling? What I read is that you know other people know that your belief supersedes apparent reality.

In other words, you are almost admitting that your default position is set, regardless of the evidence to the contrary. You HAVE to believe it is somehow a fraud otherwise all of your time invested in this paradigm is for nothing.

I don't say this to belittle you, we all operate on some sort of programming, but once you realize that "my god, I cannot escape my program because anything that challenges it must vis a vis be wrong" it should throw up red flags in your brain.

Let me assume that what I said somehow got past your programming and you got my message, now what do you do? Do you throw away everything FE related? Not necessarily. If you know NASA has lie, and that is true regardless of your FE belief, you must then ask yourself, okay if NASA wasnt lying or covering up a flat earth, what the fuck was NASA lying for or covering up.

Avail yourself to truth, don't assume you have it and make reality conform around it.

20

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Car in Space

« on: February 08, 2018, 07:36:29 AM »

I see Pete has put something on the home page along the lines of "Just because I saw it on the internet, doesn't mean it's true".

To be clear, the intention of that post was not to assert that it's false (though you can guess my thoughts on the matter). It is mostly an appeal to the immense number of people who contacted me (mostly on Facebook and Twitter) to take things with more caution. If, after evaluating the material carefully, they personally decide that it's of value to them, fine. But it's not the "gotcha!" many think it is.

This was in relation to features for the Tesla and not that he doesn't believe Musk in general.

Of course. It was not for one moment my intention to suggest that Wozniak said "omg the Earth is flat!" - merely to point out that corporations don't even trust one another. I provided a link to the source for those who want to read it in its full context.

When you say "though you can guess my thoughts on the matter" do you not find that telling? What I read is that you know other people know that your belief supersedes apparent reality.

In other words, you are almost admitting that your default position is set, regardless of the evidence to the contrary. You HAVE to believe it is somehow a fraud otherwise all of your time invested in this paradigm is for nothing.

I don't say this to belittle you, we all operate on some sort of programming, but once you realize that "my god, I cannot escape my program because anything that challenges it must vis a vis be wrong" it should throw up red flags in your brain.

Let me assume that what I said somehow got past your programming and you got my message, now what do you do? Do you throw away everything FE related? Not necessarily. If you know NASA has lie, and that is true regardless of your FE belief, you must then ask yourself, okay if NASA wasnt lying or covering up a flat earth, what the fuck was NASA lying for or covering up.

Avail yourself to truth, don't assume you have it and make reality conform around it.