The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Theory => Topic started by: Obviously on April 23, 2018, 06:38:49 AM

Title: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Obviously on April 23, 2018, 06:38:49 AM
..and why isn't the FE side "winning" a single thread in the Debate forum?

Scrolling through pages after pages of the forum, I see the remains of many great threads that utterly destroy the FE myth. In most of them all the FE questions, misunderstandings, and objections have been addressed. I get that there are only a few flat-heads left here to reply to forum posts, and we're all very grateful for your efforts, but you'd at least hope to see some threads where the RE side is losing...
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Westprog on April 23, 2018, 07:15:39 AM
..and why isn't the FE side "winning" a single thread in the Debate forum?

Scrolling through pages after pages of the forum, I see the remains of many great threads that utterly destroy the FE myth. In most of them all the FE questions, misunderstandings, and objections have been addressed. I get that there are only a few flat-heads left here to reply to forum posts, and we're all very grateful for your efforts, but you'd at least hope to see some threads where the RE side is losing...

I think you're misunderstanding how it works.

Flat Earth is considered to be a fact. It's the starting point. Any arguments that appear to cast doubt on Flat Earth are inherently flawed.

There's a constant insistence that FE advocates are thinking for themselves and are not willing to just accept propaganda. They say this, but watch how they operate and it works quite differently. Ask a FE advocate what evidence would convince them to change their mind, what experiment could be carried out that would prove the point, and they'll insist that there can be no such evidence. Flat Earth is a fact, not a theory . It can't be disproved.

So the more ingenious the proofs that the Earth is not flat, the more deluded the proponent must be. There is no meeting of minds possible.

Consider the nature of Flat Earth belief. It's a way of getting emotional satisfaction at the expense of understanding the world correctly. It allows a sense of superiority and cleverness from people who don't get such feelings from their normal life. Note how self-satisfied they are, how they almost pity the people who haven't got the same understanding. They won't give up this emotional satisfaction just to be part of the ordinary crowd.

In a way, the people who think they can "win" an argument against a Flat Earth believer are almost equally deluded. That is not going to happen. It's quite possible to function in society as a Flat Earth believer. Nowadays, there are all sorts of people who believe all sorts of things. The number of people who need to accept that the Earth is round in order to do their jobs is quite small - pilots, navigators, surveyors, geographers.

The important point to realise is that if FE believers were susceptible to evidence, they wouldn't be FE believers in the first place.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Tontogary on April 23, 2018, 08:21:40 AM
..and why isn't the FE side "winning" a single thread in the Debate forum?

Scrolling through pages after pages of the forum, I see the remains of many great threads that utterly destroy the FE myth. In most of them all the FE questions, misunderstandings, and objections have been addressed. I get that there are only a few flat-heads left here to reply to forum posts, and we're all very grateful for your efforts, but you'd at least hope to see some threads where the RE side is losing...

I think you're misunderstanding how it works.

Flat Earth is considered to be a fact. It's the starting point. Any arguments that appear to cast doubt on Flat Earth are inherently flawed.

There's a constant insistence that FE advocates are thinking for themselves and are not willing to just accept propaganda. They say this, but watch how they operate and it works quite differently. Ask a FE advocate what evidence would convince them to change their mind, what experiment could be carried out that would prove the point, and they'll insist that there can be no such evidence. Flat Earth is a fact, not a theory . It can't be disproved.

So the more ingenious the proofs that the Earth is not flat, the more deluded the proponent must be. There is no meeting of minds possible.

Consider the nature of Flat Earth belief. It's a way of getting emotional satisfaction at the expense of understanding the world correctly. It allows a sense of superiority and cleverness from people who don't get such feelings from their normal life. Note how self-satisfied they are, how they almost pity the people who haven't got the same understanding. They won't give up this emotional satisfaction just to be part of the ordinary crowd.

In a way, the people who think they can "win" an argument against a Flat Earth believer are almost equally deluded. That is not going to happen. It's quite possible to function in society as a Flat Earth believer. Nowadays, there are all sorts of people who believe all sorts of things. The number of people who need to accept that the Earth is round in order to do their jobs is quite small - pilots, navigators, surveyors, geographers.

The important point to realise is that if FE believers were susceptible to evidence, they wouldn't be FE believers in the first place.

There was a good post about using airline miles and times to prove the flat earth could not exist, and the argument against accepting it came down to that no one knows what any distance on earth is!
This was because distances are calculated on a RE model, therefore if you cannot come up with a way of measuring distances that are independent of a Re model, all measured (and also calculated distances) are false.

I did manage to show a way, using a speed measuring device that is calibrated to the earth (flat or not) and it has since gone very quiet.

Most of the difficult questions are met with a wall of silence, or the argument is sidetracked with some minor point scoring attempts, which detract from the questions asked.

There are some really weird assumptions as well, it was stated by one FEer, that he reserved his opinion of my integrity because he thinks sailors are not honest! (I am a seafarer not a sailor, there is a difference!)

I too am aware of the very few FEers who debate on this forum, so have to question if it is actually a valid forum?

Finally on this point it is rather ironic that FEers are so adamant that their own preconceived ideas mean that any other idea is to be discarded when this very thing is warned about in EnaG chapter 1!
Given the amount of evidence, observations, and carefully collected data, could anyone maintain the world is flat?

“None can doubt that by making special experiments, and collecting manifest and undeniable facts, arranging them in logical order, and observing what is naturally and fairly deducible therefrom, the result must be more consistent and satisfactory than the contrary method of framing a theory or system--assuming the existence and operation of causes of which there is no direct and practical evidence, and which is only claimed to be "admitted for the sake of argument," and for the purpose of giving an apparent and plausible, but not necessarily truthful explanation of phenomena. All theories are of this character.”
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: SiDawg on April 23, 2018, 08:51:10 AM
Yep i'm certain Rowbotham would have been convinced of the globe a long time ago. It's very telling that I haven't ONCE heard someone admit they're wrong on even the most minor of elements, from the "casual saturday morning you tube commentator" to the staunch full attack mode condescending flat earther... just ONCE i'd like to read someone say "hmm yeah good point"

There's a post on you tube where some guy says that people should be able to jump off the earth because the cavendish experiment only measured a very small force. I pointed out to them that the force measured was only between two balls... Still didn't get it! Cue nonsense endless argument and complete failure to accept a very simple "apple = apple, orange = orange" argument.

Not to mention perspective... This is particularly irksome. Some guy called P Brane draws a diagonal line on a side view and proclaims "this is how perspective works" and all the flat earthers post endless comments "wow! Brilliant! Thanks!" ... I mean come on... I've been meaning to post on how perspective ACTUALLY works, but sadly my apartment was flooded. That was one occasion I wish that water DIDN'T always find a level lol But an understanding of perspective, a very very simple concept, very easily explains why you don't get sunrise/sunset if the sun is circling above you. I just want to know I've reached ONE flat earther and it'll make it OK lol  For just one person to say "actually yeah that makes total sense!"

But apparently an alternate theory for sunrise/sunset is about "magnetism bending light"!??! And the only details i get were "pfft you need to read zetetic writings"... Can't find ANYTHING on it anywhere... So we can give very very simple explanations for why they're wrong, but they're allowed to introduce scientifically revolutionary ideas and not provide any links to research or experimental evidence of any type... I'm starting to realise you're right Westprog: i am deluded! It's somewhat addictive though.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Westprog on April 23, 2018, 09:37:26 AM
I'm starting to realise you're right Westprog: i am deluded! It's somewhat addictive though.

I'm not saying that there's no merit in the arguments. It's allowed me to see some interesting topics in detail which help explain just why the global Earth is such an obvious and undeniable fact, rather than a scientific theory which needs propping up. It's also helped me to examine certain psychological states of denial, which are applicable in many other areas. It's good training for arguing a well-presented case.

If the aim is to convert people who believe in a flat Earth, though, it's pointless. Nobody will be convinced by the facts. The p-brane video is an excellent example. There are hundreds of people expressing admiration for what should be considered self-debunking.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Obviously on April 23, 2018, 04:05:20 PM
Yes, and also notice that there isn't a single RE-defender that after reading the wiki, the forums, or watching any of their highly-coveted bullshit youtube videos became convinced that the Earth is flat. Hmmm...
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Pete Svarrior on April 23, 2018, 04:20:06 PM
Yes, and also notice that there isn't a single RE-defender that after reading the wiki, the forums, or watching any of their highly-coveted bullshit youtube videos became convinced that the Earth is flat. Hmmm...
That's a very strange observation. Look, I get you don't like us, but to just outright claim we don't exist... how rude!

Overall, this thread is an excellent illustration of cognitive bias. You think that the debate has been won, so how dare there be people who disagree with you?!. It's a useless line of inquiry, and one that will at best be ignored, and at worst turn into two sides shouting "nuh uh!" over one another.

You've got the threads where the RE'ers seem to be ahead, and those are an absolute party. Then you've got the vast majority of threads that not many people engage with, because they've been discussed to death/the OP is simply lazy, resort to a particularly dishonest rhetoric, or because they've simply been missed. Then you have fantastic morsels like that guy who thought he's proven Texas and Japan are one and the same on the Round Earth and refused to acknowledge that his methodology is bunk. A fair few RE'ers were singing his accolades before the error came to light, too. Strangely enough, those threads are forgotten by those who really want to forget them.

You also mistake a reduction in interest from FE'ers to talk to you for a reduction of FE'ers on this site. These things happen in waves. Eventually, the shitposters will get bored and we'll be back to business as usual. In the meantime, you guys can enjoy your... whatever it is you're doing, and we'll just focus on other forms of outreach.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Westprog on April 23, 2018, 04:38:21 PM
Yes, and also notice that there isn't a single RE-defender that after reading the wiki, the forums, or watching any of their highly-coveted bullshit youtube videos became convinced that the Earth is flat. Hmmm...
That's a very strange observation. Look, I get you don't like us, but to just outright claim we don't exist... how rude!

Overall, this thread is an excellent illustration of cognitive bias. You think that the debate has been won, so how dare there be people who disagree with you?!. It's a useless line of inquiry, and one that will at best be ignored, and at worst turn into two sides shouting "nuh uh!" over one another.

You've got the threads where the RE'ers seem to be ahead, and those are an absolute party. Then you've got the vast majority of threads that not many people engage with, because they've been discussed to death, resort to a particularly dishonest rhetoric, or because they've simply been missed. Then you have fantastic morsels like that guy who thought he's proven Texas and Japan are one and the same on the Round Earth and refused to acknowledge that his methodology is bunk. A fair few RE'ers were singing his accolades before the error came to light, too. Strangely enough, those threads are forgotten by those who really want to forget them.

I think you're missing the fundamental issue. The advocates of the round Earth are, generally, willing to look at various experiments which would reveal evidence supporting or debunking their theories. For example, the claim that the horizon always rises to eye level can be tested, and there's various experiments proposed which will show whether or not this is true. But this is always something driven by the people wishing to test the theories, and to be bound by the results.

Now, I'm perfectly willing to admit that if a particular experiment failed to show a round Earth, given that all such experiments always do show a round Earth, most of us would be somewhat nonplussed. We'd re-examine the details of the experiment. If the experiment were performed by someone else, we'd want to verify that it was performed correctly. But we'd at least accept the idea of designing experiments to reveal the truth, and accepting that the truth is found by performing a series of experiments.

Would we believe historical accounts of experiments performed many years ago using suspect methodology. No, but we'd at least want to re-design the experiments and perform them again.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Pete Svarrior on April 23, 2018, 05:06:07 PM
I think you're missing the fundamental issue. [...]
The latter seems by and large identical to how most Flat Earthers operate, while the former is fairly rare, but easily observed among FE'ers and RE'ers alike. Granted, if you spend too much time looking at loonies on YouTube, you could probably develop a particularly bad opinion of either group. However, if you choose to interpret the world based on such broad generalisations, I would argue that it is you who's missing a fundamental issue.

It is extremely tempting to paint your in-group as the "good guys" and the out-group as the ignorant bunch. It's just not particularly helpful to anyone.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Tumeni on April 23, 2018, 05:23:20 PM
Look, I get you don't like us

Not a question of dislike, merely disagreement.

Overall, this thread is an excellent illustration of cognitive bias. You think that the debate has been won, so how dare there be people who disagree with you?!.

Funny, that seems to be EXACTLY the attitude displayed by Parallax, Bishop, et al ...

Eventually, the shitposters will get bored and we'll be back to business as usual.

What IS 'business as usual' here?
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Pete Svarrior on April 23, 2018, 05:26:47 PM
Not a question of dislike, merely disagreement.
This was aimed at Obviously, specifically. I'd say his recent posts show a pretty clear distaste, mixed with some latent anger.

Funny, that seems to be EXACTLY the attitude displayed by Parallax, Bishop, et al ...
Parallax is a complete newcomer, and one I haven't really seen much of. As such, I'll refrain from commenting. Tom, well, he's always gonna be Tom. We love him just the way he is.

Notably, however, my suggestion that many RE'ers suffer from this mentality is not in any way meant to imply that no FE'ers ever share this problem. That would be crazy.

What IS 'business as usual' here?
Stay awhile and listen. When the peanut gallery calms down a bit, we should be able to go back to having relatively reasoned discussions. It's the atmosphere that's currently still mostly present in boards like PR&S or A&E - ones that don't get trollhammered quite so hard.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Obviously on April 23, 2018, 05:42:25 PM
Stay awhile and listen. When the peanut gallery calms down a bit, we should be able to go back to having relatively reasoned discussions.

Have you read through the forum posts here? Pretty sure every post ends about the same, as I described earlier, and the point of this thread is to point that out. I don't think flatheads are capable of "reasoned discussions". You, for example, never contribute any counter-arguments, just snide remarks that try to show how clever you supposedly are :)
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Obviously on April 23, 2018, 05:47:15 PM
This was aimed at Obviously, specifically. I'd say his recent posts show a pretty clear distaste, mixed with some latent anger.

Of course they do, because these are the only emotions the FE hoax and its followers are worthy of, and this very forum shows why. And this isn't just me, if you haven't noticed: people who pay any attention to you (which is a very small percentage of the population, thank god) are pretty angry at how deaf & dumb you guys are. Given your lack of logic and understanding of basic physics, your comments and this entire website are distasteful indeed.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Tumeni on April 23, 2018, 06:21:41 PM
... Tom, well, he's always gonna be Tom. We love him just the way he is.

Really? What do you think he brings to the table?
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on April 23, 2018, 06:30:38 PM
Stay awhile and listen. When the peanut gallery calms down a bit, we should be able to go back to having relatively reasoned discussions. It's the atmosphere that's currently still mostly present in boards like PR&S or A&E - ones that don't get trollhammered quite so hard.

Be fair, there are enough RE people on here who do want to have some reasoned discussions.
There aren't many FE people engaging and those that do are either off their meds (J-man), probably trolls (Parallax) or Tom who combines a spectacular lack of knowledge with a unshakeable belief in his authority to talk about things he clearly has no understanding or (right now he's dividing days in a year by hours in a day and thinking the fact it's not a whole number means he's just proven Fermat's Last Theorem).
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: SiDawg on April 23, 2018, 11:26:30 PM
So Pete, we can easily put this to the test: are you willing to accept that perspective doesn't work in the way Rowbotham or PBrane draw it? It is not simple a diagonal line drawn in an arbitrary position on a side view?
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: kasai on April 24, 2018, 03:14:47 PM
We've won like 80% of them. But for ignorant round-heads like you, you guys just end up quitting the debate in frustration.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: 9 out of 10 doctors agree on April 24, 2018, 03:18:45 PM
We've won like 80% of them. But for ignorant round-heads like you, you guys just end up quitting the debate in frustration.
Sounds like wishful thinking to me. How about this: you can list threads where the flatties won. For each one, I'll try to find another thread where the round-heads won.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: kasai on April 24, 2018, 03:20:51 PM
We've won like 80% of them. But for ignorant round-heads like you, you guys just end up quitting the debate in frustration.
Sounds like wishful thinking to me. How about this: you can list threads where the flatties won. For each one, I'll try to find another thread where the round-heads won.
People like you kill my braincells
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: kasai on April 24, 2018, 03:28:52 PM
..and why isn't the FE side "winning" a single thread in the Debate forum?

Scrolling through pages after pages of the forum, I see the remains of many great threads that utterly destroy the FE myth. In most of them all the FE questions, misunderstandings, and objections have been addressed. I get that there are only a few flat-heads left here to reply to forum posts, and we're all very grateful for your efforts, but you'd at least hope to see some threads where the RE side is losing...
It's very ignorant for you to even say we lost most. Threads that have been utterly destroyed? You mean threads like a bridge that proves the curvature of the Earth? (Debunked). I mean we have threads like the one in my Signature down below that literally takes the studies of a round-head called Eratosthenes and literally use his "Circumference math" to prove the flat earth. (I recommend reading it) 
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Curious Squirrel on April 24, 2018, 04:04:08 PM
..and why isn't the FE side "winning" a single thread in the Debate forum?

Scrolling through pages after pages of the forum, I see the remains of many great threads that utterly destroy the FE myth. In most of them all the FE questions, misunderstandings, and objections have been addressed. I get that there are only a few flat-heads left here to reply to forum posts, and we're all very grateful for your efforts, but you'd at least hope to see some threads where the RE side is losing...
It's very ignorant for you to even say we lost most. Threads that have been utterly destroyed? You mean threads like a bridge that proves the curvature of the Earth? (Debunked). I mean we have threads like the one in my Signature down below that literally takes the studies of a round-head called Eratosthenes and literally use his "Circumference math" to prove the flat earth. (I recommend reading it)
Such a shame that, as discussed every time Eratosthenes comes up, if you take measurements from any other point, you get different results for the height of the sun. Not to mention that, every time, it's pointed out his experiment by itself proves nothing either way. But I suppose you like to count what amounts to a draw as a win then? Cool.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Spycrab on April 24, 2018, 04:40:58 PM
We speak of 'winning' debates, but really no minds will be changed, by and large. The RE masses will stay ignorant, the FE truthers will stay ignorant as well. We're all too stuck in our beliefs and closed minded to the other side because "they're all idiots. Look at the proof it's obvious we're correct!". So no, flat heads are not admitting they're wrong. Nor are round heads.
However, having a dissenting opinion is good, as it prevents an echo chamber.
Look at the new wave feminism (it is not actually feminism, the values are very different, real feminism is actually quite respectable). They're all about echo chambers, and they've got all sorts of crazy ideas, because no one is there to give them a reality check. They're talking about how "men are pigs and don't have emotions besides uncontrllable rapist lust and all attempts at romance are just weakening the woman's guard so they can rape them, and all men need to be euthanized immeditely" etc. It's untrue, but no one's there to stop them.
Keep it real my flat dudes.

Fun fact: some quick online shopping can get you a high altitude balloon and a wireless camcorder for less than $160. Prove those round/flat earthers wrong for less!
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: 9 out of 10 doctors agree on April 24, 2018, 04:45:29 PM
We've won like 80% of them. But for ignorant round-heads like you, you guys just end up quitting the debate in frustration.
Sounds like wishful thinking to me. How about this: you can list threads where the flatties won. For each one, I'll try to find another thread where the round-heads won.
People like you kill my braincells
What? I was inviting you to back up your statement, what's wrong with that?

In fact, I'll go first: https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=9402.0
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Tontogary on April 25, 2018, 12:53:31 AM
..and why isn't the FE side "winning" a single thread in the Debate forum?

Scrolling through pages after pages of the forum, I see the remains of many great threads that utterly destroy the FE myth. In most of them all the FE questions, misunderstandings, and objections have been addressed. I get that there are only a few flat-heads left here to reply to forum posts, and we're all very grateful for your efforts, but you'd at least hope to see some threads where the RE side is losing...
It's very ignorant for you to even say we lost most. Threads that have been utterly destroyed? You mean threads like a bridge that proves the curvature of the Earth? (Debunked). I mean we have threads like the one in my Signature down below that literally takes the studies of a round-head called Eratosthenes and literally use his "Circumference math" to prove the flat earth. (I recommend reading it)

But the ones where i have asked questions have been mostly ignored by the FEers, such as the magnetism of the earth, the one on why do we see only half of the sun at sunrise or sunsets, the measuring of the angle of dip by a practical means, the examination of the distances quoted in Enag, using airline miles for measuring distances, the movement of heavenly bodies, to name a few.
Each one the FEers have left the debate, or just refused to engage, as they had no answers to the Empirical evidence, experiences, and observatiuons.

If you believe running away is winning, good luck!
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: SiDawg on April 25, 2018, 03:10:11 AM
The only way debates with FE's end is "pfft you RE'ers always use science", or "i can explain that with celestial gravitation or magnetism" or other such complete guesses with absolutely no evidence in the slightest. There's is literally nothing a FE has ever said that doesn't have an answer which can be backed up by copious amount of research, observational evidence, or just plain common sense. When a RE says something a FE can't explain, they just quote a complete guess from some idiot from history and claim no need, desire, or funds to provide evidence. And if that thing is questioned, then the response is just "yeah well i dont know exactly how it works but that's obviously how it works". It's just an intense need to feel superior in knowing something that the rest of the world is apparently "too stupid" to understand. I wonder if the flat earth actually DID take over and become the consensus model (ha!) then these people would have to deny it again and find some OTHER thing to believe in that no one else does.

Take centrifugal force for example... This is not up for debate: the formulas for calculating that are very simple, and very easy to test. Yet i've never heard one flat earther say "oh yeah true, the centrifugal force at the equator is only a fraction of the thing you call gravity". We call this a "debate" but we're often talking about things that are completely NOT open to debate... It's like showing someone an apple and having someone say "yep, nup, that's not an apple". Very frustrating.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: hexagon on April 25, 2018, 07:29:25 AM
The problem of the "debate" is inherent, you have to fail to explain something that is in contradiction to reality. From a physics point of view the only interest of discussing such an idea as the flat earth would be to take this as a gedankenexperiment and to build an alternative theoretical framework around this. This could be quite challenging and entertaining, but also for that you would need at least basic understanding of physics, which is almost never existent on the side of the flat earth believers. And I never so any kind of coherence in their explanations. In the best case they can focus on a single observation and give a kind of alternative explanation for it, but then they need a contradicting explanation for something else. Best example are maybe the maps. The monopole and the duopole models can explain very different different things, but are inherently contradicting each other. 
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Westprog on April 25, 2018, 07:52:49 AM
..and why isn't the FE side "winning" a single thread in the Debate forum?

Scrolling through pages after pages of the forum, I see the remains of many great threads that utterly destroy the FE myth. In most of them all the FE questions, misunderstandings, and objections have been addressed. I get that there are only a few flat-heads left here to reply to forum posts, and we're all very grateful for your efforts, but you'd at least hope to see some threads where the RE side is losing...
It's very ignorant for you to even say we lost most. Threads that have been utterly destroyed? You mean threads like a bridge that proves the curvature of the Earth? (Debunked). I mean we have threads like the one in my Signature down below that literally takes the studies of a round-head called Eratosthenes and literally use his "Circumference math" to prove the flat earth. (I recommend reading it)

But the ones where i have asked questions have been mostly ignored by the FEers, such as the magnetism of the earth, the one on why do we see only half of the sun at sunrise or sunsets, the measuring of the angle of dip by a practical means, the examination of the distances quoted in Enag, using airline miles for measuring distances, the movement of heavenly bodies, to name a few.
Each one the FEers have left the debate, or just refused to engage, as they had no answers to the Empirical evidence, experiences, and observatiuons.

If you believe running away is winning, good luck!

Another one is "This has been fully explained on earlier threads. I'm so tired having to go over it again and again." You go to look at the explanation and it's gibberish.

I'm sure that the FE proponents think that their nonsense about "Celestial perspective" is an explanation for the disappearance of the Sun behind the horizon, and that they've actually explained something. That's why there's no actual arguing going on here. A combination of assertion of things that simply don't exist, and denial of observations beyond reasonable doubt don't leave any room for discussion.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: kasai on April 25, 2018, 07:04:00 PM
We've won like 80% of them. But for ignorant round-heads like you, you guys just end up quitting the debate in frustration.
Sounds like wishful thinking to me. How about this: you can list threads where the flatties won. For each one, I'll try to find another thread where the round-heads won.
People like you kill my braincells
What? I was inviting you to back up your statement, what's wrong with that?

In fact, I'll go first: https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=9402.0
Dude the SpaceX footage is fake it doesn't take a flat earther to realize it either, as long as your ignorance doesn't the best of you, you'd realize how fake the SpaceX footage is, so that thread isn't one that you can say is a winning round earther thread.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: kasai on April 25, 2018, 07:05:36 PM
..and why isn't the FE side "winning" a single thread in the Debate forum?

Scrolling through pages after pages of the forum, I see the remains of many great threads that utterly destroy the FE myth. In most of them all the FE questions, misunderstandings, and objections have been addressed. I get that there are only a few flat-heads left here to reply to forum posts, and we're all very grateful for your efforts, but you'd at least hope to see some threads where the RE side is losing...
It's very ignorant for you to even say we lost most. Threads that have been utterly destroyed? You mean threads like a bridge that proves the curvature of the Earth? (Debunked). I mean we have threads like the one in my Signature down below that literally takes the studies of a round-head called Eratosthenes and literally use his "Circumference math" to prove the flat earth. (I recommend reading it)
Such a shame that, as discussed every time Eratosthenes comes up, if you take measurements from any other point, you get different results for the height of the sun. Not to mention that, every time, it's pointed out his experiment by itself proves nothing either way. But I suppose you like to count what amounts to a draw as a win then? Cool.
You clearly didn't read my thread... I use his exact measurements to prove flat earth.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: TomInAustin on April 25, 2018, 07:08:14 PM
..and why isn't the FE side "winning" a single thread in the Debate forum?

Scrolling through pages after pages of the forum, I see the remains of many great threads that utterly destroy the FE myth. In most of them all the FE questions, misunderstandings, and objections have been addressed. I get that there are only a few flat-heads left here to reply to forum posts, and we're all very grateful for your efforts, but you'd at least hope to see some threads where the RE side is losing...
It's very ignorant for you to even say we lost most. Threads that have been utterly destroyed? You mean threads like a bridge that proves the curvature of the Earth? (Debunked). I mean we have threads like the one in my Signature down below that literally takes the studies of a round-head called Eratosthenes and literally use his "Circumference math" to prove the flat earth. (I recommend reading it)
Such a shame that, as discussed every time Eratosthenes comes up, if you take measurements from any other point, you get different results for the height of the sun. Not to mention that, every time, it's pointed out his experiment by itself proves nothing either way. But I suppose you like to count what amounts to a draw as a win then? Cool.
You clearly didn't read my thread... I use his exact measurements to prove flat earth.

Your evidence was faked, that is obvious.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: kasai on April 25, 2018, 07:12:52 PM
I'm starting to think alot of Round Heads are Liberals, no wonder most of them sound stupid.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: kasai on April 25, 2018, 07:15:55 PM
..and why isn't the FE side "winning" a single thread in the Debate forum?

Scrolling through pages after pages of the forum, I see the remains of many great threads that utterly destroy the FE myth. In most of them all the FE questions, misunderstandings, and objections have been addressed. I get that there are only a few flat-heads left here to reply to forum posts, and we're all very grateful for your efforts, but you'd at least hope to see some threads where the RE side is losing...
It's very ignorant for you to even say we lost most. Threads that have been utterly destroyed? You mean threads like a bridge that proves the curvature of the Earth? (Debunked). I mean we have threads like the one in my Signature down below that literally takes the studies of a round-head called Eratosthenes and literally use his "Circumference math" to prove the flat earth. (I recommend reading it)
Such a shame that, as discussed every time Eratosthenes comes up, if you take measurements from any other point, you get different results for the height of the sun. Not to mention that, every time, it's pointed out his experiment by itself proves nothing either way. But I suppose you like to count what amounts to a draw as a win then? Cool.
You clearly didn't read my thread... I use his exact measurements to prove flat earth.

Your evidence was faked, that is obvious.
My Evidence was fake? Go back and watch the SpaceX stream. Clearly not my evidence, SpaceX provided the evidence for me to prove that fake stream.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Tumeni on April 25, 2018, 07:19:50 PM
I'm starting to think alot of Round Heads are Liberals ...

Only the American ones?
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: 9 out of 10 doctors agree on April 25, 2018, 07:25:42 PM
We've won like 80% of them. But for ignorant round-heads like you, you guys just end up quitting the debate in frustration.
Sounds like wishful thinking to me. How about this: you can list threads where the flatties won. For each one, I'll try to find another thread where the round-heads won.
People like you kill my braincells
What? I was inviting you to back up your statement, what's wrong with that?

In fact, I'll go first: https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=9402.0
Dude the SpaceX footage is fake it doesn't take a flat earther to realize it either, as long as your ignorance doesn't the best of you, you'd realize how fake the SpaceX footage is, so that thread isn't one that you can say is a winning round earther thread.
Believe what you will, the thread went like this:

FE claims it was faked.
RE presses for evidence proving that claim.
FE repeats their assertion without really responding to RE's request.

You want to say that it's a loss for RE? Then give evidence.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Curious Squirrel on April 25, 2018, 07:29:40 PM
..and why isn't the FE side "winning" a single thread in the Debate forum?

Scrolling through pages after pages of the forum, I see the remains of many great threads that utterly destroy the FE myth. In most of them all the FE questions, misunderstandings, and objections have been addressed. I get that there are only a few flat-heads left here to reply to forum posts, and we're all very grateful for your efforts, but you'd at least hope to see some threads where the RE side is losing...
It's very ignorant for you to even say we lost most. Threads that have been utterly destroyed? You mean threads like a bridge that proves the curvature of the Earth? (Debunked). I mean we have threads like the one in my Signature down below that literally takes the studies of a round-head called Eratosthenes and literally use his "Circumference math" to prove the flat earth. (I recommend reading it)
Such a shame that, as discussed every time Eratosthenes comes up, if you take measurements from any other point, you get different results for the height of the sun. Not to mention that, every time, it's pointed out his experiment by itself proves nothing either way. But I suppose you like to count what amounts to a draw as a win then? Cool.
You clearly didn't read my thread... I use his exact measurements to prove flat earth.
I participated in your thread. As well as about a half dozen others that discuss his measurements, and others. His measurements alone do not prove a round or a flat Earth. Period. They can give you A) The approximate circumference of a round Earth or B) The approximate height of the sun on a flat Earth. They prove nothing by themselves either way. However, if you take measurements from other locations and apply the same math, you come up with quite a variable array of sun heights. However the circumference doesn't change. So take your pick.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: 9 out of 10 doctors agree on April 25, 2018, 07:31:27 PM
..and why isn't the FE side "winning" a single thread in the Debate forum?

Scrolling through pages after pages of the forum, I see the remains of many great threads that utterly destroy the FE myth. In most of them all the FE questions, misunderstandings, and objections have been addressed. I get that there are only a few flat-heads left here to reply to forum posts, and we're all very grateful for your efforts, but you'd at least hope to see some threads where the RE side is losing...
It's very ignorant for you to even say we lost most. Threads that have been utterly destroyed? You mean threads like a bridge that proves the curvature of the Earth? (Debunked). I mean we have threads like the one in my Signature down below that literally takes the studies of a round-head called Eratosthenes and literally use his "Circumference math" to prove the flat earth. (I recommend reading it)
Such a shame that, as discussed every time Eratosthenes comes up, if you take measurements from any other point, you get different results for the height of the sun. Not to mention that, every time, it's pointed out his experiment by itself proves nothing either way. But I suppose you like to count what amounts to a draw as a win then? Cool.
You clearly didn't read my thread... I use his exact measurements to prove flat earth.

Your evidence was faked, that is obvious.
My Evidence was fake? Go back and watch the SpaceX stream. Clearly not my evidence, SpaceX provided the evidence for me to prove that fake stream.
Guess what: I've seen their stream, and I can definitely say that if there is evidence in the stream, it's not obvious. If you want me to scrutinize it, give me a place in the video to start with.

Oh, and I have Astronomy Club in twenty minutes, so as an avid Kerbal Space Program player I say: bring it.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Westprog on April 25, 2018, 09:22:00 PM
I'm starting to think a lot of Round Heads are Liberals, no wonder most of them sound stupid.

The people who accept that the Earth is not flat include liberals, conservatives, fascists, communists, nationalists, the apolitical, the very clever, the not clever at all, men, women, children and probably most dolphins. Flat Earth, though it gets a lot of publicity, remains a fringe belief even among fringe beliefs.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: SiDawg on April 26, 2018, 02:09:57 AM
I'm starting to think alot of Round Heads are Liberals, no wonder most of them sound stupid.
Liberals usually make rational decisions based on evidence. Conservatives usually make decisions on fear or adversity to change (hence the need to "conserve")

On the other hand, some times liberals make decisions purely based on empathy, and conservatives some times make decisions based on economics.

So basically, liberals are generally smarter but occasionally make decisions based on emotions, and conservatives are generally stupid but occasionally make decisions based on practicality. But hey that's another HUGE debate...
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: TomInAustin on April 26, 2018, 04:13:19 PM
..and why isn't the FE side "winning" a single thread in the Debate forum?

Scrolling through pages after pages of the forum, I see the remains of many great threads that utterly destroy the FE myth. In most of them all the FE questions, misunderstandings, and objections have been addressed. I get that there are only a few flat-heads left here to reply to forum posts, and we're all very grateful for your efforts, but you'd at least hope to see some threads where the RE side is losing...
It's very ignorant for you to even say we lost most. Threads that have been utterly destroyed? You mean threads like a bridge that proves the curvature of the Earth? (Debunked). I mean we have threads like the one in my Signature down below that literally takes the studies of a round-head called Eratosthenes and literally use his "Circumference math" to prove the flat earth. (I recommend reading it)
Such a shame that, as discussed every time Eratosthenes comes up, if you take measurements from any other point, you get different results for the height of the sun. Not to mention that, every time, it's pointed out his experiment by itself proves nothing either way. But I suppose you like to count what amounts to a draw as a win then? Cool.
You clearly didn't read my thread... I use his exact measurements to prove flat earth.

Your evidence was faked, that is obvious.
My Evidence was fake? Go back and watch the SpaceX stream. Clearly not my evidence, SpaceX provided the evidence for me to prove that fake stream.

Yes it was fake
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Tumeni on April 26, 2018, 04:50:17 PM
Dude the SpaceX footage is fake ...

Which footage? The Falcon Heavy / Tesla? Something else?
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Pickel B Gravel on April 29, 2018, 04:19:54 AM
..and why isn't the FE side "winning" a single thread in the Debate forum?

Scrolling through pages after pages of the forum, I see the remains of many great threads that utterly destroy the FE myth. In most of them all the FE questions, misunderstandings, and objections have been addressed. I get that there are only a few flat-heads left here to reply to forum posts, and we're all very grateful for your efforts, but you'd at least hope to see some threads where the RE side is losing...

Why would we admit we're wrong? And we're not destroyed in debates here. Round earthers take cheap shots and gang up on us that it becomes too tedious and time-consuming to continue the debates.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Tumeni on April 29, 2018, 07:57:11 AM
Round earthers take cheap shots and gang up on us that it becomes too tedious and time-consuming to continue the debates.

Ah, there it is AGAIN. The "I don't have the time for this", or "I'm bored with this conversation" get-out clause.

Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Tontogary on April 29, 2018, 08:44:19 AM
..and why isn't the FE side "winning" a single thread in the Debate forum?

Scrolling through pages after pages of the forum, I see the remains of many great threads that utterly destroy the FE myth. In most of them all the FE questions, misunderstandings, and objections have been addressed. I get that there are only a few flat-heads left here to reply to forum posts, and we're all very grateful for your efforts, but you'd at least hope to see some threads where the RE side is losing...

Why would we admit we're wrong? And we're not destroyed in debates here. Round earthers take cheap shots and gang up on us that it becomes too tedious and time-consuming to continue the debates.

I am pretty sure you are wrong. About the flat earth, as has been proved many times your arguments do not hold up, thats when the FEers usually walk away, and dont play anymore.

I have asked many questions, shown that many of the chapters in EnaG do not stand up to scrutiny, and have very basic errors of principle in them, and really dont prove anything, and i either get ridiculous silly side tracking points, or a wall of silence, or “EnaG was proved to be correct!” With no proof or reason for saying so.

I am pretty sure you are wrong in denying the holocaust. Have you ever been to The site of a Nazi concentration camp? Off topic i know, but if you complain about people taking cheap shots i would suggest changing your signature. That’s inviting all sorts of adverse comments!
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Tumeni on April 29, 2018, 08:53:35 AM
Since we're talking about signatures;

"I am a typical GENIUS girl who does NOT follow the masses and who does NOT blindly accept what is told to me without EVIDENCE"

I'll bet, in your daily life, you take hundreds of things at face value, with no expectation of evidence, and don't give them a second thought. 

You're just cherry-picking the flat-earth vs. globe-earth argument out of all this for the sake of the argument. 
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: JohnAdams1145 on April 29, 2018, 09:50:01 AM
..and why isn't the FE side "winning" a single thread in the Debate forum?

Scrolling through pages after pages of the forum, I see the remains of many great threads that utterly destroy the FE myth. In most of them all the FE questions, misunderstandings, and objections have been addressed. I get that there are only a few flat-heads left here to reply to forum posts, and we're all very grateful for your efforts, but you'd at least hope to see some threads where the RE side is losing...

Why would we admit we're wrong? And we're not destroyed in debates here. Round earthers take cheap shots and gang up on us that it becomes too tedious and time-consuming to continue the debates.

Ah, yes, Pickel B Gravel again. That signature admittedly triggered me the first time I read it, but now I'm used to it. Let's see... You have a rather short memory, right? I dug up a rather engaging thread I had with you https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=8013.60

You got destroyed. Remember? It was you who didn't understand the conservation of energy. It was you who couldn't do the basic calculations for black body radiation from the Sun. It was you who made up some electrolysis junk while we tried to explain to you that the energy just wasn't there (aka not addressing/understanding the argument). We then reduced you to asserting that the water came from somewhere and you didn't really understand where the energy came from (and that there's a water stream in space that we cannot see). Not to mention the many different posts douglips and I had to make explaining that combustion reactions cannot make the Sun as hot as 5700 K.

You also asserted that the Sun is in the atmosphere (wtf?). You don't think a 30-mile wide ball of flaming gas at 5700 K would cause extreme winds? Well, pardon me.

And then I caught you in a lie about a 1595 on the SAT, which I know isn't true.

TL;DR: You got destroyed.

And let's not start on the Holocaust denial...
I am pretty sure you are wrong. About the flat earth, as has been proved many times your arguments do not hold up, thats when the FEers usually walk away, and dont play anymore.
Well said.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Macarios on April 29, 2018, 08:12:12 PM
..and why isn't the FE side "winning" a single thread in the Debate forum?

Scrolling through pages after pages of the forum, I see the remains of many great threads that utterly destroy the FE myth. In most of them all the FE questions, misunderstandings, and objections have been addressed. I get that there are only a few flat-heads left here to reply to forum posts, and we're all very grateful for your efforts, but you'd at least hope to see some threads where the RE side is losing...

Why would we admit we're wrong? And we're not destroyed in debates here. Round earthers take cheap shots and gang up on us that it becomes too tedious and time-consuming to continue the debates.

I'm sorry if some other globers are trying to "win" something.
(Surely, some other flattists are trying the same thing.)

But neither of us are al the same.
I'm here about facts, not about some "victory".

For start, I have one simple question for you:

Meter is defined by French.
They measured distance through meridian near Paris (from Dunkirk to Barcelona) and defined meter as 10 milionth part of distance from pole to Equator.
The measuring was timely and expensive enterprise.
It shows us that North pole is 10 000 kilometers from Equator.

Equator is the line where Sun circulates for Equinox.
It is circle and even Rowbotham confirms that.
That fact is confirmed by observing midnight sun at North pole from March 21 to September 21, and by other factors.

Circumference of Equator is 40 074.5 kilometers.
Radius is 10 000 kilometers.

Why circumference of Equator is not 62 832 kilometers?

(http://i65.tinypic.com/2n6adjc.jpg)
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Westprog on April 29, 2018, 10:15:43 PM
Since we're talking about signatures;

"I am a typical GENIUS girl who does NOT follow the masses and who does NOT blindly accept what is told to me without EVIDENCE"

I'll bet, in your daily life, you take hundreds of things at face value, with no expectation of evidence, and don't give them a second thought. 

You're just cherry-picking the flat-earth vs. globe-earth argument out of all this for the sake of the argument.

That and evolution and the Holocaust. Don't tell me - let me guess. Willing to look beyond what the corrupt media tells her about 9/11 and vaccines as well?

Oh, and crisis actors in mass shootings as well. Anyone smart enough to see through the Holocaust should know that all those dead kids were just fictional.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Spycrab on April 30, 2018, 01:37:31 PM
Since we're on the topic...
I do not wish to insult, but this signature is unfortunate.
Not believing in evolution: wrong but reasonable. It's hard to observe and there's much confusion between the colloquial and scientific meanings of "theory".
Not believing in the globe: wrong but reasonable. It's a flat earth forum after all.
Not believing in the holocaust: wrong and unreasonable. The event was heavily documented and detailed, it was an immense tradgedy, and we need to establish "yes this did happen" so we do not forget the horrors of genocide. Not only that, but to deny it's occurrence it to deny the suffering and death of 6 million people who were starved, oveworked, opressed, burned, and gassed to death for not being Aryan. This is not a matter of 'proof' and 'alternative facts'. It's history.
https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005143 (https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005143)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust)
https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/the-holocaust (https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/the-holocaust)
https://www.britannica.com/event/Holocaust (https://www.britannica.com/event/Holocaust)
http://www.yadvashem.org/holocaust/about.html (http://www.yadvashem.org/holocaust/about.html)
http://endgenocide.org/learn/past-genocides/the-holocaust/ (http://endgenocide.org/learn/past-genocides/the-holocaust/)
Get some reading done.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Westprog on April 30, 2018, 05:38:42 PM
Since we're on the topic...
I do not wish to insult, but this signature is unfortunate.
Not believing in evolution: wrong but reasonable. It's hard to observe and there's much confusion between the colloquial and scientific meanings of "theory".
Not believing in the globe: wrong but reasonable. It's a flat earth forum after all.
Not believing in the holocaust: wrong and unreasonable. The event was heavily documented and detailed, it was an immense tradgedy, and we need to establish "yes this did happen" so we do not forget the horrors of genocide. Not only that, but to deny it's occurrence it to deny the suffering and death of 6 million people who were starved, oveworked, opressed, burned, and gassed to death for not being Aryan. This is not a matter of 'proof' and 'alternative facts'. It's history.
https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005143 (https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005143)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust)
https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/the-holocaust (https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/the-holocaust)
https://www.britannica.com/event/Holocaust (https://www.britannica.com/event/Holocaust)
http://www.yadvashem.org/holocaust/about.html (http://www.yadvashem.org/holocaust/about.html)
http://endgenocide.org/learn/past-genocides/the-holocaust/ (http://endgenocide.org/learn/past-genocides/the-holocaust/)
Get some reading done.

It's worth noting because, while the belief in a flat Earth is relatively harmless, the mode of thinking that it involves is anything but. I'm far from surprised that there's an association with Holocaust denial among flat Earth proponents - not because I think they are necessarily malignant racists, but because they are willing to ignore evidence in order to feel that they've seen past a massive conspiracy.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on April 30, 2018, 06:25:38 PM
What's interesting is Pickel does this thing where she says "there is no evidence for..."
And this is one of those things.
I've seen her say there's "no evidence" for the holocaust.
Recently she said there's "no evidence" for satellites.

Really, Pickel? No evidence at all? And it is noteworthy because it shows the mindset.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: ShowmetheProof on May 01, 2018, 12:43:46 PM
Why would we admit we're wrong? And we're not destroyed in debates here. Round earthers take cheap shots and gang up on us that it becomes too tedious and time-consuming to continue the debates.

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=9466.0
As I assume happened here?  Although, one tiny problem...... it was one-on-one debating!  It was one FE'er, one RE'er, just going at it.  We asked a question. 
You've had since the 21st of April.  You still haven't answered.  There were no cheap shots.  No ganging up on one another.  Just a typical finish to a debate here.  To better explain, I will present a model of that debate.

RE #1:  Proof.
FE #1:  Sly trick, but works.
RE #1:  Rebuttal.
FE #1:  Another trick.
RE#1:  RE #1 Wants proving model.
RE #1: RE #1 Asking again.
FE'ers never post again.  So far.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Tom Bishop on May 01, 2018, 01:21:43 PM
Why would we admit we're wrong? And we're not destroyed in debates here. Round earthers take cheap shots and gang up on us that it becomes too tedious and time-consuming to continue the debates.

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=9466.0
As I assume happened here?  Although, one tiny problem...... it was one-on-one debating!  It was one FE'er, one RE'er, just going at it.  We asked a question. 
You've had since the 21st of April.  You still haven't answered.  There were no cheap shots.  No ganging up on one another.  Just a typical finish to a debate here.  To better explain, I will present a model of that debate.

RE #1:  Proof.
FE #1:  Sly trick, but works.
RE #1:  Rebuttal.
FE #1:  Another trick.
RE#1:  RE #1 Wants proving model.
RE #1: RE #1 Asking again.
FE'ers never post again.  So far.

There are 1000 of you to 1 of us. Pointing out a thread where we do not maintain the conversation will be trivial, and means nothing.

In that thread I referred to previous discussions on the matter. If there is a question beyond that, and I did not see a coherent one I could respond to in that thread, it will go in queue.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Tumeni on May 01, 2018, 01:33:03 PM
There are 1000 of you to 1 of us.

I urge you to ponder why.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on May 01, 2018, 01:39:31 PM
There are 1000 of you to 1 of us.

I urge you to ponder why.
:D

But also it's a ridiculous exaggeration. There are a lot more round earthers on here that flat earth - as you say, funny that!
But this is not a busy board, it takes 10-15 minutes tops to look through the threads which have had new posts each day, maybe a little longer if you're going to reply.
Tom, you need to stop these silly excuses
"There are too many of you!" - yes, you're outnumbered but the board isn't busy enough for that to be a valid excuse
"We don't have any funding" - nor do I, but I've done some simple experiments to show you wrong about things. If you're only interested in experiments the results of which you can personally verify then fine, go do your own experiments and let us see the results so we can review them.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: ShowmetheProof on May 01, 2018, 01:44:11 PM
Why would we admit we're wrong? And we're not destroyed in debates here. Round earthers take cheap shots and gang up on us that it becomes too tedious and time-consuming to continue the debates.

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=9466.0
As I assume happened here?  Although, one tiny problem...... it was one-on-one debating!  It was one FE'er, one RE'er, just going at it.  We asked a question. 
You've had since the 21st of April.  You still haven't answered.  There were no cheap shots.  No ganging up on one another.  Just a typical finish to a debate here.  To better explain, I will present a model of that debate.

RE #1:  Proof.
FE #1:  Sly trick, but works.
RE #1:  Rebuttal.
FE #1:  Another trick.
RE#1:  RE #1 Wants proving model.
RE #1: RE #1 Asking again.
FE'ers never post again.  So far.

There are 1000 of you to 1 of us.

I urge you to read these lines.  As you can see, this was one-on-one.  "It was 1000 to 1!" doesn't work.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: 9 out of 10 doctors agree on May 01, 2018, 02:09:38 PM
In that thread I referred to previous discussions on the matter. If there is a question beyond that, and I did not see a coherent one I could respond to in that thread, it will go in queue.
I asked for a working model, then and there. Is that too much to ask?

You're seeing one tree and missing the forest. The point was that as soon as Round Earth seems to corner you, Flat Earthers scurry away and are never seen again.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: kasai on May 03, 2018, 05:57:37 PM
Round earthers take cheap shots and gang up on us that it becomes too tedious and time-consuming to continue the debates.

Ah, there it is AGAIN. The "I don't have the time for this", or "I'm bored with this conversation" get-out clause.
Yes we don't have time for this because you round heads are so ignorant and kill our brain cells.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: kasai on May 03, 2018, 06:03:02 PM
..and why isn't the FE side "winning" a single thread in the Debate forum?

Scrolling through pages after pages of the forum, I see the remains of many great threads that utterly destroy the FE myth. In most of them all the FE questions, misunderstandings, and objections have been addressed. I get that there are only a few flat-heads left here to reply to forum posts, and we're all very grateful for your efforts, but you'd at least hope to see some threads where the RE side is losing...

Why would we admit we're wrong? And we're not destroyed in debates here. Round earthers take cheap shots and gang up on us that it becomes too tedious and time-consuming to continue the debates. He didn't really understand.... wow! So this means your automatically right?

Ah, yes, Pickel B Gravel again. That signature admittedly triggered me the first time I read it, but now I'm used to it. Let's see... You have a rather short memory, right? I dug up a rather engaging thread I had with you https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=8013.60

You got destroyed. Remember? It was you who didn't understand the conservation of energy. It was you who couldn't do the basic calculations for black body radiation from the Sun. It was you who made up some electrolysis junk while we tried to explain to you that the energy just wasn't there (aka not addressing/understanding the argument). We then reduced you to asserting that the water came from somewhere and you didn't really understand where the energy came from (and that there's a water stream in space that we cannot see). Not to mention the many different posts douglips and I had to make explaining that combustion reactions cannot make the Sun as hot as 5700 K.

You also asserted that the Sun is in the atmosphere (wtf?). You don't think a 30-mile wide ball of flaming gas at 5700 K would cause extreme winds? Well, pardon me.

And then I caught you in a lie about a 1595 on the SAT, which I know isn't true.

TL;DR: You got destroyed.

And let's not start on the Holocaust denial...
I am pretty sure you are wrong. About the flat earth, as has been proved many times your arguments do not hold up, thats when the FEers usually walk away, and dont play anymore.
Well said.
He got "destroyed" because he didn't do the calculations? Well whoop-dee-doo he didn't do the calculations... apparently he got destroyed because he didn't know how or was simply uninterested in your thread. Yeah sure he got destroyed.... Let's just go with that.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: 9 out of 10 doctors agree on May 03, 2018, 06:23:51 PM
He got "destroyed" because he didn't do the calculations?
Well, if you refuse to do your own calculations, and are presented with someone else's calculations, then you must either accept them, find significant fault in them, or concede that you don't understand the equations used.
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Well whoop-dee-doo he didn't do the calculations... apparently he got destroyed because he didn't know how or was simply uninterested in your thread. Yeah sure he got destroyed.... Let's just go with that.
Well, as John stated, it was also the fact that they misunderstood conservation of energy, made up some crap that AP Chemistry students can tell is wrong, and lied about SAT scores.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Westprog on May 04, 2018, 07:39:20 AM
Why would we admit we're wrong? And we're not destroyed in debates here. Round earthers take cheap shots and gang up on us that it becomes too tedious and time-consuming to continue the debates.

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=9466.0
As I assume happened here?  Although, one tiny problem...... it was one-on-one debating!  It was one FE'er, one RE'er, just going at it.  We asked a question. 
You've had since the 21st of April.  You still haven't answered.  There were no cheap shots.  No ganging up on one another.  Just a typical finish to a debate here.  To better explain, I will present a model of that debate.

RE #1:  Proof.
FE #1:  Sly trick, but works.
RE #1:  Rebuttal.
FE #1:  Another trick.
RE#1:  RE #1 Wants proving model.
RE #1: RE #1 Asking again.
FE'ers never post again.  So far.

There are 1000 of you to 1 of us.



I urge you to read these lines.  As you can see, this was one-on-one.  "It was 1000 to 1!" doesn't work.

In fact, the number of people willing to debate against flat Earth nonsense is very small. It's not a very productive use of one's time. The problem that flat Earth advocates have is that they are dealing with intractable facts, not that access to the facts is impossible.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: kasai on May 04, 2018, 06:36:22 PM
He got "destroyed" because he didn't do the calculations?
Well, if you refuse to do your own calculations, and are presented with someone else's calculations, then you must either accept them, find significant fault in them, or concede that you don't understand the equations used.
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Well whoop-dee-doo he didn't do the calculations... apparently he got destroyed because he didn't know how or was simply uninterested in your thread. Yeah sure he got destroyed.... Let's just go with that.
Well, as John stated, it was also the fact that they misunderstood conservation of energy, made up some crap that AP Chemistry students can tell is wrong, and lied about SAT scores.
Well still, lying about SAT scores or not, he didn't get destroyed in the thread you guys have, the common misconception you guys have about us is that we're not getting destroyed in these threads at all, we simply get bored, get frustrated (because you guys are ignorant), or just because it's very exhausting arguing with you guys, it's like arguing with a wall.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: 9 out of 10 doctors agree on May 04, 2018, 07:16:36 PM
Well still, lying about SAT scores or not, he didn't get destroyed in the thread.
You seem to have a different definition of "destroyed". Have you seen the first Trump v. Clinton debate? Trump got "destroyed" in that. Even some the Trump supporters had to admit that.

I consider this word to mean, in the context of a debate, that one person is making points that their opponent has an easy rebuttal to, and/or struggles to make rebuttals to their opponent's points.

How about you? Unless you state your definition of "destroyed", it's a fairly straightforward No True Scotsman fallacy:
"No true scotsmen do X."
"My friend is from Scotland, he does X."
"Then clearly they are not a true scotsman."
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We simply get bored,
Just come back a day later. Boredom will pass.

This really doesn't work as an excuse, since a lot of the time I see FEers "getting bored" with a thread, yet still actively posting in other threads.
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get frustrated (because you guys are ignorant), or just because it's very exhausting arguing with you guys, it's like arguing with a wall.
Kinda how Round Earthers sometimes feel. Do you ever see us randomly leaving just one thread, without commenting about such?
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Pickel B Gravel on May 06, 2018, 05:16:29 PM
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Ah, yes, Pickel B Gravel again. That signature admittedly triggered me the first time I read it, but now I'm used to it. Let's see... You have a rather short memory, right? I dug up a rather engaging thread I had with you https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=8013.60
You got destroyed. Remember?

I didn't get destroyed at all. You completely misrepresented my positions and engaged in such cowardice, resorting to strawman fallacies, ad hominem attacks, and red herring attacks. And you kept doing it even after I requested you to refrain from such.

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It was you who didn't understand the conservation of energy.

Of course I understand it. As I've said on that thread, I haven't provided all the details for the proposed model of the Sun. You take the lack of detail I provide and use it to discredit me and the proposed Sun model. Would you like me to do the same? Alright, the Sun isn't billions of years old because comets still exist, which violates the second law of thermodynamics.

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It was you who couldn't do the basic calculations for black body radiation from the Sun.

I don't believe in the premise that the calculations of black body radiation are based on. And asking you why you believed the sun was a certain temperature doesn't mean I couldn't do the basic calculations.

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It was you who made up some electrolysis junk while we tried to explain to you that the energy just wasn't there (aka not addressing/understanding the argument).

You are absolutely wrong. I have addressed the arguments you've made. You kept making too many assumptions and resorted to ad hominem attacks, red herring attacks, and strawman attacks that it just became pointless to argue. You didn't want to have a meaningful discussion of the proposed scientific theory that I was proposing; you simply wanted to insult, fight with, and misrepresent me.

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We then reduced you to asserting that the water came from somewhere and you didn't really understand where the energy came from (and that there's a water stream in space that we cannot see).

I have stated quite clearly that the water vapor formed into clouds and then reversed back into separate hydrogen and oxygen via natural electrolysis. These separate molecules would then diffuse into the Sun to be recombined into h2o and released back into the atmosphere. The water came from the Sun. I've made this clear.

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Not to mention the many different posts douglips and I had to make explaining that combustion reactions cannot make the Sun as hot as 5700 K.

When have I ever said the Sun was that hot? NEVER.

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You also asserted that the Sun is in the atmosphere (wtf?). You don't think a 30-mile wide ball of flaming gas at 5700 K would cause extreme winds? Well, pardon me.

If the Sun was 5700 k, which I never typed that it was, then it would cause extreme winds. But, again, this is a prime example of you resorting to strawman cowardice by insisting (or assuming) that I accept the Sun to be 5700 k.

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And then I caught you in a lie about a 1595 on the SAT, which I know isn't true.

I didn't lie. I told you that the essay is graded in one-point intervals. You just can't admit you're wrong.

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TL;DR: You got destroyed.

And let's not start on the Holocaust denial...

No, I didn't get destroyed. I did get insulted and misrepresented. I did have to argue with many aggressive round earthers. And the holocaust? Everything I've typed about it has not been disproved. Now WHY is that?
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: Pickel B Gravel on May 06, 2018, 05:20:29 PM
Round earthers take cheap shots and gang up on us that it becomes too tedious and time-consuming to continue the debates.

Ah, there it is AGAIN. The "I don't have the time for this", or "I'm bored with this conversation" get-out clause.

It's not a get-out clause. The round earthers I've come across here are never satisfied with an answer, and they often resort to some form of strawman or red herring cowardice. This question itself refers to flat earth theorists as "flat-heads". If that isn't a derogatory term meant to deride flat earth theorists, then I don't know what is.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: inquisitive on May 06, 2018, 06:06:06 PM
Round earthers take cheap shots and gang up on us that it becomes too tedious and time-consuming to continue the debates.

Ah, there it is AGAIN. The "I don't have the time for this", or "I'm bored with this conversation" get-out clause.

It's not a get-out clause. The round earthers I've come across here are never satisfied with an answer, and they often resort to some form of strawman or red herring cowardice. This question itself refers to flat earth theorists as "flat-heads". If that isn't a derogatory term meant to deride flat earth theorists, then I don't know what is.
Still waiting for you to explain satellite tv.
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: 9 out of 10 doctors agree on May 06, 2018, 07:41:28 PM
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Ah, yes, Pickel B Gravel again. That signature admittedly triggered me the first time I read it, but now I'm used to it. Let's see... You have a rather short memory, right? I dug up a rather engaging thread I had with you https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=8013.60
You got destroyed. Remember?

I didn't get destroyed at all. You completely misrepresented my positions and engaged in such cowardice, resorting to strawman fallacies, ad hominem attacks, and red herring attacks. And you kept doing it even after I requested you to refrain from such.
Could you point me to a few examples?
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It was you who didn't understand the conservation of energy.

Of course I understand it. As I've said on that thread, I haven't provided all the details for the proposed model of the Sun. You take the lack of detail I provide and use it to discredit me and the proposed Sun model. Would you like me to do the same? Alright, the Sun isn't billions of years old because comets still exist, which violates the second law of thermodynamics.
How exactly does that violate the second law again?
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It was you who couldn't do the basic calculations for black body radiation from the Sun.

I don't believe in the premise that the calculations of black body radiation are based on. And asking you why you believed the sun was a certain temperature doesn't mean I couldn't do the basic calculations.
Just curious, but which part of it do you reject?

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It was you who made up some electrolysis junk while we tried to explain to you that the energy just wasn't there (aka not addressing/understanding the argument).

You are absolutely wrong. I have addressed the arguments you've made. You kept making too many assumptions and resorted to ad hominem attacks, red herring attacks, and strawman attacks that it just became pointless to argue. You didn't want to have a meaningful discussion of the proposed scientific theory that I was proposing; you simply wanted to insult, fight with, and misrepresent me.
I really would like to know what arguments of yours didn't get addressed.
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We then reduced you to asserting that the water came from somewhere and you didn't really understand where the energy came from (and that there's a water stream in space that we cannot see).

I have stated quite clearly that the water vapor formed into clouds and then reversed back into separate hydrogen and oxygen via natural electrolysis. These separate molecules would then diffuse into the Sun to be recombined into h2o and released back into the atmosphere. The water came from the Sun. I've made this clear.
Does that answer where the energy comes from, though?
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Not to mention the many different posts douglips and I had to make explaining that combustion reactions cannot make the Sun as hot as 5700 K.

When have I ever said the Sun was that hot? NEVER.
Then why do we see the spectrum that we see?
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And then I caught you in a lie about a 1595 on the SAT, which I know isn't true.

I didn't lie. I told you that the essay is graded in one-point intervals. You just can't admit you're wrong.
And either way the SAT doesn't cover any science or chemistry.
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And the holocaust? Everything I've typed about it has not been disproved. Now WHY is that?
Have you actually tried using Google?
Title: Re: Are flat-heads willing to admit that they are wrong?
Post by: JohnAdams1145 on May 07, 2018, 03:46:07 AM
I didn't lie. I told you that the essay is graded in one-point intervals. You just can't admit you're wrong.

The rest of the stuff in your post isn't worth addressing, as any quick Google search on black-body radiation and basic chemistry will get you those answers. So, since when is the SAT scored out of 1624 points? Yeah, give me a break. Ya lied. Nobody adds the essay to the composite score. I suggest you send me a picture of a College Board score report (no inspect-element tomfoolery), although a screenshot of your score report will definitely win some credibility points. For those who aren't familiar with this issue, Pickel claimed she has a 1595 SAT score, when it's scored on 10-point increments... The essay is scored separately out of 24 points (8 points per scoring criterion). By the way, you shouldn't brag about this, as I'm fairly confident I could get a 1600 on the SAT if I prepared my test-taking skills for a few weeks (it's been a few years), and I know many people who can do the same. Also, I just realized this golden nugget: if she got a 1595 on the SAT, that means she got a 5/24 (or 15/24, but that makes it far less impressive amirite) on the essay LOL.

Hey, perhaps you should actually take a class on thermodynamics and read up on Planck's Law instead of just spouting stuff and claiming to be a member of Mensa... Just a thought... The Dunning-Kruger is strong with this one.




And I'm sorry, but I can't resist this guilt-by-association attack: comets and the Sun == 2nd law of thermodynamics? What are you smoking?
By the way, none of the attacks I used were ad hominem. I merely pointed out that you clearly have not taken and/or passed basic physics, and additionally that you are not truthful about your intelligence --- therefore, your outrageous claims should be taken with an ocean of salt.

Actually, for everyone else, I will address why Pickel's argument is the product of an improperly-trained biological neural network:
1. We know the Sun's surface is about 5778 K. I just chose to floor it to 5700 K. This is confirmed by virtually every trained astronomer, a qualification that Pickel thinks she's somewhere close to (hint: you're not.). A complicated way to see this is through measuring the Sun's spectrum and applying Planck's Law. A simple way is to build a solar scorcher -- by the second law of thermodynamics, one can easily see that the Sun must be at least as hot as the temperature of the object being heated up. If you can't see why, well that's what physics class is for. Of course, pretty much every astronomer also says that the core of the Sun is many millions of K.
2. Now that we know that the Sun is extremely hot, we see that water pretty much doesn't exist at such a temperature -- it decomposes to its constituent elements.
3. Therefore, combustion of hydrogen and oxygen cannot yield any energy in such an environment.

Extra information:
Pickel doesn't even know where the energy to split the water comes from. Even if it were magic and somehow worked, it wouldn't work for the reason given above.


I feel like I've repeated myself enough. Pickel and co cannot accept that they are wrong and need to study a ton more before literally assailing almost all of science. I don't see how this isn't a clear-cut disproof of Pickel's argument. Why, then, won't she admit she's just wrong?