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Other Discussion Boards => Philosophy, Religion & Society => Topic started by: DuckDodgers on December 10, 2013, 02:24:30 AM

Title: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: DuckDodgers on December 10, 2013, 02:24:30 AM
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/09/21836926-george-zimmermans-girlfriend-recants-allegations-he-threatened-her-with-gun#comments

Apparently he never brandished a gun in the dispute with his girlfriend.  She wants him back as well.
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Rushy on December 10, 2013, 02:26:07 AM
I am so tired of hearing about this guy.
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Sean on December 10, 2013, 02:27:01 AM
I am so tired of hearing about this guy.
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Lord Dave on December 10, 2013, 02:38:16 AM
I am so tired of hearing about this guy.
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Yaakov ben Avraham on December 10, 2013, 03:07:40 AM
I'm w/ Irush on this. You would think that a guy that got off the accusations earlier this year would be smart enough to bloody well duck, & stay out of sight for awhile!
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Saddam Hussein on December 10, 2013, 03:43:25 AM
I am so tired of hearing about this guy.

There really is nothing else to say.
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: spoon on December 10, 2013, 03:59:49 AM
If you guys hadn't dragged that thread on at .org for 3 fucking months, maybe you'd be willing to discuss it now.
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: DDDDAts all folks on December 10, 2013, 07:50:55 AM
If that's the case his girl friend should be arrested for wasting police time.
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Yaakov ben Avraham on December 10, 2013, 08:35:28 AM
Datsallfolks, boy, have you said it. Like they don't have enough to deal w/ w/o the idiocy that is Zimmerman getting in the way!
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: DuckDodgers on December 10, 2013, 02:19:28 PM
Right, his girlfriend making a false statement is a direct result of his idiocy...
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Alchemist21 on December 10, 2013, 02:25:34 PM
If Zimmerman has a grain of sense in his brain, he will walk away from her forever.  Who in the right mind would willingly stay with someone who's going to falsely accuse you of pointing a gun at them and call 911 about it.  If the opposite is true and he did point a gun at her, she's an idiot for wanting him back.

Not sure if Zimmerman is the Bad Luck Brian of legal battles...

Or OJ2.
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Yaakov ben Avraham on December 10, 2013, 02:34:04 PM
Duck, I didn't mean that him being an idiot caused her to lie to the police. What I meant was the entire idiocy that surrounds the man generally. Should have written more clearly.
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Sean on December 10, 2013, 04:28:17 PM
He probably did pull a gun on her. Women take back crazy, abusive men all the time.
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: model 29 on December 10, 2013, 05:49:38 PM
Sounds like a psycho girlfriend.  Hopefully she gets charged with filing a false police report, etc, and Zimmerman ejects from that relationship.

A friend of mine got screwed by a similiar psycho girlfriend.  She was blacked out drunk, flipped out and assaulted him, called the cops, and the feminist cops who showed up ignored the marks on his back from being shoved into the dryer because he was too tanned, naturally sided with her story, and arrested him for domestic violence.
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Sean on December 10, 2013, 06:04:02 PM
Women rarely get charged with domestic violence, but that's probably cause men don't bitch and moan about it like women.
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Rama Set on December 10, 2013, 06:08:33 PM
Sounds like a psycho girlfriend.  Hopefully she gets charged with filing a false police report, etc, and Zimmerman ejects from that relationship.

A friend of mine got screwed by a similiar psycho girlfriend.  She was blacked out drunk, flipped out and assaulted him, called the cops, and the feminist cops who showed up ignored the marks on his back from being shoved into the dryer because he was too tanned, naturally sided with her story, and arrested him for domestic violence.

Wow where to begin:

Taking a woman's claim seriously considering the genetic differences between men and women in regards to physical stature, and the long, long, long history of men abusing women, does not make one a feminist.

When you miss a mark on someone because of their tan, this is not ignoring.  Ignoring would be registering that he had marks on his back, and either not thinking anything of it, and/or not acting upon them.

Women rarely get charged with domestic violence, but that's probably cause men don't bitch and moan about it like women.

No, I think it is because men beat on their women more.
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Sean on December 10, 2013, 06:11:53 PM
I've known women who've hit men, none of those men ever called the police. Women bring it on themselves for not leaving the crazy men.
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Rama Set on December 10, 2013, 06:21:09 PM
I've known women who've hit men, none of those men ever called the police.

What's your point? 

Quote
Women bring it on themselves for not leaving the crazy men.

It sounds like a simple solution in theory, but in practice there are many different and complicated issues in place, especially if there are children involved, or financial dependence.
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Sean on December 10, 2013, 06:25:02 PM
My point is men don't bitch and moan about it. They often can't even claim self defense because of the sexist nature of the courts. Lol financial dependence is far too common with women. I want a sugar momma, but it's so Butch easier for women to leech off men.
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Rama Set on December 10, 2013, 06:30:32 PM
My point is men don't bitch and moan about it. They often can't even claim self defense because of the sexist nature of the courts.

Courts are sexist?  Oh, I thought it was you.

 
Quote
Lol financial dependence is far too common with women. I want a sugar momma, but it's so Butch easier for women to leech off men.

Because often men are stupid enough to let a woman leech, but lets say the woman being abused is a stay at home mom.  A worthy reason to be financially dependent.

I think what is most disturbing about your comments is that you think someone complaining of being physically abused is "bitching and moaning".  That's pretty fucked up.
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Sean on December 10, 2013, 06:49:15 PM
My mom had a job. Having babies you cannot support with an abusive partner is always a good idea.
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Sean on December 10, 2013, 06:53:22 PM
Also amusing you somehow think an abusive relationship is a good environment to raise a child as long as mommy gets money
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Rama Set on December 10, 2013, 06:54:14 PM
My mom had a job.

Some do, some don't.  Staying at home as a parent is a valid and worthwhile choice.

Quote
Having babies you cannot support with an abusive partner is always a good idea.

Leaving aside the obvious lack of compassion you are displaying here, perhaps you should consider that you do not always know a partner is abusive before things like pregnancy happen.  You should maybe have a think about how complicated these situations are before you paint them all with the same brush.
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Rama Set on December 10, 2013, 06:55:06 PM
Also amusing you somehow think an abusive relationship is a good environment to raise a child as long as mommy gets money

Not nearly as funny as how you read this in to my comments. 
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Sean on December 10, 2013, 06:56:48 PM
That's exactly what you're saying though...
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Rama Set on December 10, 2013, 06:59:44 PM
Oh yeah?  This should be good.  Where did I say that?
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Sean on December 10, 2013, 07:14:19 PM
If a stay at home mom is financially dependent on a man who abuses her that is justification for her raising a baby with him.
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Yaakov ben Avraham on December 10, 2013, 07:18:01 PM
Rama & I disagree on nearly everything, but I'm w/ him on this. Before anyone puts out a blanket statement re: women in a situation like this, ask, what if it was your sister or daughter?
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Yaakov ben Avraham on December 10, 2013, 07:22:18 PM
I don't think he said anything about it be just or no. He merely said, correctly, that a woman who is financially dependent & has a child might not know how to support herself by herself. That's why many women stay, even though they know they should leave.
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Rama Set on December 10, 2013, 07:25:43 PM
What I was saying was that it is not a straightforward decision to leave someone when they are the parent of your child and your source of money.  Emotionally or logistically.
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: rooster on December 10, 2013, 07:29:41 PM
And it's also not as easy as just leaving. Sometimes the abuse is so psychological that they can't bring themselves to leave, are too scared the man will stalk/more severely hurt her if she does leave, or believe they deserve the abuse.
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Rama Set on December 10, 2013, 07:31:35 PM
And it's also not as easy as just leaving. Sometimes the abuse is so psychological that they can't bring themselves to leave, are too scared the man will stalk/more severely hurt her if she does leave, or believe they deserve the abuse.

Which is not helped by there being actual cases where women have left and were tracked down and killed.

http://www.safehavenshelter.org/what-keeps-women-in-abusive-relationships/
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Sean on December 10, 2013, 07:55:59 PM
What I was saying was that it is not a straightforward decision to leave someone when they are the parent of your child and your source of money.  Emotionally or logistically.

So that of what you were saying. okay.

And it's also not as easy as just leaving. Sometimes the abuse is so psychological that they can't bring themselves to leave, are too scared the man will stalk/more severely hurt her if she does leave, or believe they deserve the abuse.

Which is not helped by there being actual cases where women have left and were tracked down and killed.

http://www.safehavenshelter.org/what-keeps-women-in-abusive-relationships/

I can find a link that shows women have killed men too. :o



Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Rama Set on December 10, 2013, 08:23:37 PM
Where did I say men had not been killed by women?  That is twice in this thread you have put words in my mouth.  Can you find me a link that shows that men's chance of being killed or severely injured goes up by 75% when they try to leave an abusive relationship?  Anyway, I pasted that link because it discusses the myriad reasons why people stay in abusive relationships.
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: DDDDAts all folks on December 10, 2013, 08:24:43 PM
I agree with Rama on this.

But men do get abused in relationships and they often don't tell anyone because it's generally believed only women can be in an abusive and manipulative relationship.

It's not all one sided.
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Sean on December 10, 2013, 08:31:55 PM
I agree with Rama on this too. He has convinced me.
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Sean on December 10, 2013, 08:36:01 PM
I was just being a dick, but there are women who are abused, and just take it, because she "loves him". Then I start to lose a bit of sympathy.

By no means does this make it okay, however. Any man who abuses a woman deserve to be punished.
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Rama Set on December 10, 2013, 08:43:39 PM
I get where you are coming from, but it can be awfully hard to just give up on someone who you love especially since abusers are often in quite a bit of pain themself.
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Sean on December 10, 2013, 09:00:38 PM
Yeah, being in pain isn't an excuse to abuse. They should, in no circumstances, be made out to be the victim.  I know what you mean. It's a lose-lose situation, and it sucks, but of you make the choice to stay because you love that person, I can not feel sorry for you...
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Rama Set on December 11, 2013, 12:06:38 AM
That is your choice. I would urge you to be more compassionate. It usually makes more of a difference than apathy.
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Снупс on December 11, 2013, 04:11:14 AM
@Yaakov: There's no excuse for double-posting when you're making shorter posts like that and you've acknowledged such yourself before. Edit your posts if you have more to add.

Anyway, I agree mostly with Rama here, but I very mildly agree with Sean that men have a much, much harder time arguing abuse. Social stigmas basically pressure men into staying quiet because people expect men to be "tough" and to not show emotion or weakness, plus there are plenty who believe that women can't abuse men and if they do get hit, they should just suck it up. I wouldn't go as far as saying women "bitch and moan" about it; domestic abuse is a serious issue and is not something someone should put up with.

I can't fully understand some women's trains of thought (e.g., Rihanna—he beat her to a pulp and she kept wanting him back!), but I know it's a complicated thing.

All that said, I don't think it's something either sex should have to deal with. As a nice rule of thumb, I just don't hit people period. If I ever slapped or hit a guy I'd see little reason he couldn't do the same back.

So yeah, I don't know what's going on between Zimmerman and his girlfriend, but I think it'd probably be best for both of them if they weren't together, no matter who is the one that's actually to blame.
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Sean on December 11, 2013, 04:41:19 AM
Supes, I said before I was just being a dick before, I will even apologize if anyone was offended. My main points are as follows:

A man should not hit a woman. A woman should also not hit a man, however, physiologically, men do tend to be significantly larger and stronger than a woman. If a woman slapped me, for instance, I don't think it would be okay to pummel her, or even hit her back if I could defend myself without it.

However, I believe if in an abusive relationship, there is no good reason for a woman to stay in it. If she feels she is in danger if she leaves, I think there are ways she can better protect herself. If she stays because "HE'S A GOOD GUY WHEN HE'S NOT BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF ME!"  I refuse to go out of my way to feel sorry for this woman, I am sorry. She made a choice to put up with being beat.
Title: Re: Zimmerman could be innocent
Post by: Yaakov ben Avraham on December 11, 2013, 04:50:11 AM
Well, having been a male in a violent relationship, where she came at me with everything from fists to six inch butcher knives, I can give you personal experience of what its like for a man to be abused, and not know how to deal with it. My ex-wife is from a foreign land, where we lived. Trust me, their courts would have laughed their ass off if I had reported this kind of thing. Hell, the Police would have busted up in my face.

Sadly, in order to protect myself, I had to fight back. I never hurt her seriously, but I was stronger than she, and usually she got the worst end of it, once I had managed to hurt her enough to get the fucking butcher knife away from her. Don't think this isn't something that I don't live with every day, because it is. I was not raised to hit women, ever. The fact that I had to is still a very painful thing for me to accept. But trust me, sometimes, it is necessary.