The Flat Earth Society

Other Discussion Boards => Philosophy, Religion & Society => Topic started by: Lord Dave on December 05, 2016, 07:26:02 AM

Title: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Lord Dave on December 05, 2016, 07:26:02 AM
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/04/politics/gun-incident-fake-news/


Summary: Angry man walks into DC pizzaria cause he thinks fake child sex ring story (about Hillary Clinton) is true.


And, according to the article, alot of places got targeted with that fake news and recieved death threats.  Isn't this fun?  Watching the fucking morons not fact check cause they can't handle the truth walk around with guns.



Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet on December 05, 2016, 08:31:33 AM

Quote
Watching the fucking morons not fact check cause they can't handle the truth

You're on the FES website! How can this be a surprise?
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Lord Dave on December 05, 2016, 11:12:52 AM

Quote
Watching the fucking morons not fact check cause they can't handle the truth

You're on the FES website! How can this be a surprise?


Plenty of intelligent people here.
But none of them are going to shoot up NASA over it.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on December 05, 2016, 05:29:00 PM
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/04/politics/gun-incident-fake-news/


Summary: Angry man walks into DC pizzaria cause he thinks fake child sex ring story (about Hillary Clinton) is true.


And, according to the article, alot of places got targeted with that fake news and recieved death threats.  Isn't this fun?  Watching the fucking morons not fact check cause they can't handle the truth walk around with guns.

Don't you think it's interesting that they keep referring to this story as "fake news?" When has any scandal ever been so thoroughly overlooked without any actual journalistic effort or media attention whatsoever? Unless you like censorship and propaganda I implore you to not fall for this manufactured divide between what is real, and fake, news.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Lord Dave on December 05, 2016, 07:01:11 PM
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/04/politics/gun-incident-fake-news/ (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/04/politics/gun-incident-fake-news/)


Summary: Angry man walks into DC pizzaria cause he thinks fake child sex ring story (about Hillary Clinton) is true.


And, according to the article, alot of places got targeted with that fake news and recieved death threats.  Isn't this fun?  Watching the fucking morons not fact check cause they can't handle the truth walk around with guns.

Don't you think it's interesting that they keep referring to this story as "fake news?" When has any scandal ever been so thoroughly overlooked without any actual journalistic effort or media attention whatsoever? Unless you like censorship and propaganda I implore you to not fall for this manufactured divide between what is real, and fake, news.
Plenty of times.
We just don't hear about it because it's not news.

Also: What are you saying?  That it's not fake?  that fake news doesn't exist?
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on December 05, 2016, 07:46:45 PM
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/04/politics/gun-incident-fake-news/ (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/04/politics/gun-incident-fake-news/)


Summary: Angry man walks into DC pizzaria cause he thinks fake child sex ring story (about Hillary Clinton) is true.


And, according to the article, alot of places got targeted with that fake news and recieved death threats.  Isn't this fun?  Watching the fucking morons not fact check cause they can't handle the truth walk around with guns.

Don't you think it's interesting that they keep referring to this story as "fake news?" When has any scandal ever been so thoroughly overlooked without any actual journalistic effort or media attention whatsoever? Unless you like censorship and propaganda I implore you to not fall for this manufactured divide between what is real, and fake, news.
Plenty of times.
We just don't hear about it because it's not news.

Also: What are you saying?  That it's not fake?  that fake news doesn't exist?

There are things that are just click bait, bullshit websites built just to scam an advertising penny out of you. There's "The Onion" style websites that are purposefully and understood to be satirical websites. 

But this story, isn't just some article on just ONE website that people are spamming and sharing without checking the facts on. This is being reported on and investigated all across the alternative news spectrum. Mainstream media isn't and won't touch it, and the only way to minimize the efforts of the people trying to connect the dots and find the truth of the matter is to VERY publicly call the story "fake news"

There is nothing Fake about it. It isn't fabricated out of pure imagination. There is plausibility to it, facts that are hard to account for. Connections made at high levels, connections made on the ground in Haiti. To just call it "fake," or believe it to be because it seems to bizarre and disgusting to be real is absurd.

I wish, and sincerely hope, it is fake. But to see such a backlash by the MSM against even the notion, is unique. 

There are no journalists anymore, just AP scripts and teleprompter readers.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Lord Dave on December 05, 2016, 08:15:50 PM
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/04/politics/gun-incident-fake-news/ (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/04/politics/gun-incident-fake-news/)


Summary: Angry man walks into DC pizzaria cause he thinks fake child sex ring story (about Hillary Clinton) is true.


And, according to the article, alot of places got targeted with that fake news and recieved death threats.  Isn't this fun?  Watching the fucking morons not fact check cause they can't handle the truth walk around with guns.

Don't you think it's interesting that they keep referring to this story as "fake news?" When has any scandal ever been so thoroughly overlooked without any actual journalistic effort or media attention whatsoever? Unless you like censorship and propaganda I implore you to not fall for this manufactured divide between what is real, and fake, news.
Plenty of times.
We just don't hear about it because it's not news.

Also: What are you saying?  That it's not fake?  that fake news doesn't exist?

There are things that are just click bait, bullshit websites built just to scam an advertising penny out of you. There's "The Onion" style websites that are purposefully and understood to be satirical websites. 

But this story, isn't just some article on just ONE website that people are spamming and sharing without checking the facts on. This is being reported on and investigated all across the alternative news spectrum. Mainstream media isn't and won't touch it, and the only way to minimize the efforts of the people trying to connect the dots and find the truth of the matter is to VERY publicly call the story "fake news"

There is nothing Fake about it. It isn't fabricated out of pure imagination. There is plausibility to it, facts that are hard to account for. Connections made at high levels, connections made on the ground in Haiti. To just call it "fake," or believe it to be because it seems to bizarre and disgusting to be real is absurd.

I wish, and sincerely hope, it is fake. But to see such a backlash by the MSM against even the notion, is unique. 

There are no journalists anymore, just AP scripts and teleprompter readers.

>_>
So you think that just because it's being passed around and that you THINK it's "plasuable" that Hillary Clinton is running a child sex ring in a pizzaria?

What "Facts" are you saying are hard to disprove?  I mean, how do you even KNOW they're facts?
What makes this story somehow "probable" but the clickbait bullshit not?
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on December 05, 2016, 08:56:58 PM
Either you're interested or concerned enough to do your own research, or you're not. I have no desire to handhold or do it for you.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Blanko on December 05, 2016, 08:59:48 PM
Obvious false flag is obvious
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Lord Dave on December 05, 2016, 09:23:42 PM
Either you're interested or concerned enough to do your own research, or you're not. I have no desire to handhold or do it for you.
One can prove anything by researching on the internet.

Fortunately, someone already went and "researched" that story.  It was false.  Unless, of course, the gun toting man just couldn't find the secret passage switch.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 05, 2016, 09:57:38 PM
Actually, if one looks at the investigation on Reddit and 4Chan, there is some compelling evidence that the Clintons are involved with people who traffic children. Who proved it to be "fake news"? Did these reporters even investigate the evidence and allegations?
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet on December 05, 2016, 10:30:12 PM
Actually, if one looks at the investigation on Reddit and 4Chan, !?!

Running a child sex ring from the basement of a pizzaria, that doesn't have a basement!
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on December 05, 2016, 10:42:12 PM
Actually, if one looks at the investigation on Reddit and 4Chan, !?!

Running a child sex ring from the basement of a pizzaria, that doesn't have a basement!

The pizza place is just one part of the story. The Pizza as in Pizzagate is about a lot more than that.

No one has proven this stuff to be false, and as Tom said, there is enough indirect evidence where a full scale investigation would really help to clear it up. But instead, we get told it's fake news by the same "news" corporations already shown to be in collusion with these politicians. Don't forget folks, propaganda is legal in the USA.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet on December 05, 2016, 11:05:47 PM
Actually, if one looks at the investigation on Reddit and 4Chan, !?!

Running a child sex ring from the basement of a pizzaria, that doesn't have a basement!

The pizza place is just one part of the story. The Pizza as in Pizzagate is about a lot more than that.

No one has proven this stuff to be false, and as Tom said, there is enough indirect evidence where a full scale investigation would really help to clear it up. But instead, we get told it's fake news by the same "news" corporations already shown to be in collusion with these politicians. Don't forget folks, propaganda is legal in the USA.

Yes the pizza (basement) place is one part of the story, and is demonstrably false.

Reddit banned the story, so they're in on it, the BBC reported on it (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-38156985), so they are in on it, Reuters are in on it (http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-reddit-abuse-idUKKBN13P2J6).
But the conspiracy nuts want an investigation, and because the are nuts, they won't get one, so that proves you are right, am I right?
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: George on December 05, 2016, 11:15:00 PM
Snopes has a good article on the story:

http://www.snopes.com/pizzagate-conspiracy/

Extensive debunking of the conspiracy theorists' claims, as well as highlighting the dishonesty behind the websites that pushed the story to begin with.  It's funny how the people who are so sharp that the government's lies can never get past them prove to be far more gullible when it comes to alt-news websites telling them what they want to hear.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: trekky0623 on December 05, 2016, 11:26:15 PM
> Multiple sources debunk a conspiracy theory.

Why won't anyone investigate this injustice???
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 06, 2016, 01:06:28 AM
Snopes leans left, and it is itself a "fake news site" when it comes to things that are politically-related. There is a significant body of evidence that the Clintons are involved with some very shady people. There is a lot more evidence than the Snopes or the Washington Post would dare publish.

The link does not mention the Clinton's involvement with Laura Silsby, a convicted human trafficker, their numerous visits to Jeffry Epstein's pedophile island, another convicted trafficker; or when Bill Clinton was president interfered with a legal case against a pedo ring by declaring that it wasn't pedophilia if the children had clothes on.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: garygreen on December 06, 2016, 01:34:56 AM
would anyone care to provide some sources for any of these claims?
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: George on December 06, 2016, 01:37:08 AM
Snopes leans left

Reality leans left.

would anyone care to provide some sources for any of these claims?

No!  Do your own research!
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Boots on December 06, 2016, 01:45:40 AM
Well I don't much care for the Clintons but right off the bat a red flag goes up for me, because as much as I don't like them I really find it hard to believe they would be involved in any type of pedophile shenanigans. Also, putting the onus on the Clintons and/or the law enforcement to prove these stories false seems a little backwards. Whatever happened to innocent till proven guilty? I would say the onus is on the accusers to prove the story true.

TheTruthIsonHere robbed a bank yesterday. No-one has proven this statement false, therefore I think it's clear an investigation needs to be launched to clear this up.

 I know i know, it's different because there is supposedly enough evidence available to warrant an investigation. Well, I can't stand how the media tries to manipulate us instead of informing us, but the sites providing this so-called evidence are even worse than the mainstream media IMHO.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Fortuna on December 06, 2016, 05:30:32 AM
Snopes has a good article on the story:

http://www.snopes.com/pizzagate-conspiracy/

Extensive debunking of the conspiracy theorists' claims, as well as highlighting the dishonesty behind the websites that pushed the story to begin with.  It's funny how the people who are so sharp that the government's lies can never get past them prove to be far more gullible when it comes to alt-news websites telling them what they want to hear.

I think it has more to do with the fact that people are just fed up with media sources like Huffington Post, NY Times, The Washington Post, Vice, NPR, Reuters etc... being so blatantly biased, and practically engaging in fake news reporting themselves. It's not just an anti-Trump crusade either because they shunned Bernie too. Mainstream media in America has almost no credibility now, except with Hillary supporters who will gladly accept any support their side gets whether it is legitimate or not. So, stories like this are meant to be a "fuck you" to the establishment. For example, one of my friends on Facebook doesn't actually believe this story is true, yet he still posts stories about it to get at his liberal friends. And I don't really blame this type of protesting either. The left in the US has become boundlessly hypocritical.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: rooster on December 06, 2016, 02:04:05 PM
Whoa, don't be putting NPR in with those others.

NPR is legit. I wouldn't say they've done any "fake news reporting." They only have a perceived left bias because they share stories and opinion pieces from people around the world. If you read or listen to them then you'd see they're actually pretty objective with their reporting.

Hell, I listened to a bit about Ben Carson last night and everyone was being supportive and optimistic.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: garygreen on December 06, 2016, 06:04:01 PM
NPR is legit.

i highly recommend pbs newshour, too.  i think they do an impeccable job of being non-partisan.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: trekky0623 on December 06, 2016, 09:53:54 PM
Whoa, don't be putting NPR in with those others.

NPR is legit. I wouldn't say they've done any "fake news reporting." They only have a perceived left bias because they share stories and opinion pieces from people around the world. If you read or listen to them then you'd see they're actually pretty objective with their reporting.

Hell, I listened to a bit about Ben Carson last night and everyone was being supportive and optimistic.

Reuters is fine as well. It's my preferred source of news. I think Hollocron just has a bias against reality.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: George on December 06, 2016, 10:15:06 PM
There's an interesting article (http://www.vox.com/2016/8/16/12484644/media-donald-trump) from a few months ago that attempts to explain why most of the media is so firmly anti-Trump.  The part about how Trump lies in a way that's considered unacceptable in political journalism is of particular note.  Also, in more recent news about news:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXQyaUkg6eA
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Fortuna on December 07, 2016, 04:36:28 AM
Whoa, don't be putting NPR in with those others.

NPR is legit. I wouldn't say they've done any "fake news reporting." They only have a perceived left bias because they share stories and opinion pieces from people around the world. If you read or listen to them then you'd see they're actually pretty objective with their reporting.

Hell, I listened to a bit about Ben Carson last night and everyone was being supportive and optimistic.

NPR doesn't post fake news, but they are heavily left leaning. The opinion pieces they share reflect their own opinions as well. Billy Bob doesn't have to write his own content for him to show bias. All you have to do is look at his NRA and Drudge Report reposts to see the bias.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 07, 2016, 12:45:27 PM
Reddit used to have a sub dedicated to the investigation of Pizzagate, but was banned due to pressure by the Clinton Foundation. The research has moved to https://voat.co/v/PizzaGate

Here is a good summary of some of the main findings:

https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1467064
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: rooster on December 07, 2016, 01:32:07 PM
NPR doesn't post fake news, but they are heavily left leaning. The opinion pieces they share reflect their own opinions as well. Billy Bob doesn't have to write his own content for him to show bias. All you have to do is look at his NRA and Drudge Report reposts to see the bias.
It's not like they're actually just sharing unedited stories. They take snippets and use it for their own objective reporting or they interview someone with a more conservative opinion. So, like the Ben Carson thing I mentioned - nothing negative was said about Ben Carson. Then I also listened to a Native American give her opinion on why the Dakota Pipeline was the safest and best route. They're informative and very factual. They even hosted their own live fact checking during the Presidential debates.

I think it's more the science articles, sharing personal stories from people in East Asia (ex: people who use meth to make it through a day of work), and international music that makes the right think it's too left. Nothing is actually biased except maybe the people they interview but y'know - that's life. You can't interview robots.

They make it a point to interview people from all walks of life so they maintain a pretty professional stance. They're very proud of it too if you've ever heard one of their fundraising days.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Rama Set on December 07, 2016, 02:18:10 PM
Reddit used to have a sub dedicated to the investigation of Pizzagate, but was banned due to pressure by the Clinton Foundation. The research has moved to https://voat.co/v/PizzaGate

How do you know it was the Clinton foundation's pressure?
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 07, 2016, 04:32:43 PM
Reddit used to have a sub dedicated to the investigation of Pizzagate, but was banned due to pressure by the Clinton Foundation. The research has moved to https://voat.co/v/PizzaGate

How do you know it was the Clinton foundation's pressure?

The sub was closed due to complaints, and it probably wasn't the Trump campaign complaining. The people involved are also complaining loudly in the press about it. It's not too hard to figure out.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Rama Set on December 07, 2016, 04:34:42 PM
The sub was closed due to complaints, and it probably wasn't the Trump campaign complaining. The people involved are also complaining loudly in the press about it. It's not too hard to figure out.

With logic like that, how could one argue?
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: garygreen on December 07, 2016, 05:33:37 PM
Here is a good summary of some of the main findings:

https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1467064

that's an awful summary.  it's just a list of urls.

which handful do you find the most compelling?  what do you consider to be the best evidence?
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on December 07, 2016, 07:37:21 PM
Snopes has a good article on the story:

http://www.snopes.com/pizzagate-conspiracy/

Extensive debunking of the conspiracy theorists' claims, as well as highlighting the dishonesty behind the websites that pushed the story to begin with.  It's funny how the people who are so sharp that the government's lies can never get past them prove to be far more gullible when it comes to alt-news websites telling them what they want to hear.

lol people still using snopes

Here is a good summary of some of the main findings:

https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1467064

that's an awful summary.  it's just a list of urls.

which handful do you find the most compelling?  what do you consider to be the best evidence?

Read it or don't, man. It's nobody elses job to educate you. What are you afraid of? What do you have to lose? Why waste more time chastising the people who have done their research into A VAST CONSPIRACY INVOLVING CHILD SEX TRAFFICKING than the time it takes to do some rudimentary readings and skimming.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 07, 2016, 09:28:36 PM
Here is a good summary of some of the main findings:

https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1467064

that's an awful summary.  it's just a list of urls.

which handful do you find the most compelling?  what do you consider to be the best evidence?

Just read the text on that page in its entirety. If you have any questions about the legitimacy of a claim click on the associated urls.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: George on December 08, 2016, 12:22:12 AM
Snopes has a good article on the story:

http://www.snopes.com/pizzagate-conspiracy/

Extensive debunking of the conspiracy theorists' claims, as well as highlighting the dishonesty behind the websites that pushed the story to begin with.  It's funny how the people who are so sharp that the government's lies can never get past them prove to be far more gullible when it comes to alt-news websites telling them what they want to hear.

lol people still using snopes

Excellent rebuttal.  I completely understand now why that article is wrong and these allegations are actually true.

Also, that Voat page is nothing more than a meaningless jumble of speculation, happenstance, interpreting obvious jokes as serious confessions, general FUD, and the like.  "So?" is the appropriate response to most of these claims.  A number of them aren't even true.  It talks about the ACORN "sting" video from James O'Keefe as if it hadn't already been widely debunked (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACORN_2009_undercover_videos_controversy#Investigations_of_ACORN_and_the_videos) as a carefully edited hoax, and tries to support its claim that the American Psychiatric Association is trying to normalize pedophilia by citing an article (http://joeforamerica.com/2016/11/american-psychiatric-association-states-natural-normal-aroused-children/) which itself cites an article (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/10948796/Paedophilia-is-natural-and-normal-for-males.html) that clearly says no such thing.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: trekky0623 on December 08, 2016, 01:43:18 AM
Reddit used to have a sub dedicated to the investigation of Pizzagate, but was banned due to pressure by the Clinton Foundation. The research has moved to https://voat.co/v/PizzaGate

How do you know it was the Clinton foundation's pressure?

The sub was closed due to complaints, and it probably wasn't the Trump campaign complaining. The people involved are also complaining loudly in the press about it. It's not too hard to figure out.

And as we all know, all human beings are either part of the Trump campaign or the Clinton campaign.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: garygreen on December 08, 2016, 02:13:02 AM
Read it or don't, man. It's nobody elses job to educate you. What are you afraid of? What do you have to lose?

my worldview has no trouble incorporating the notion that there are evil people in the world who do evil things.  spamming urls in an unorganized laundry list is still a poor form of education.  the only reason to present one's argument in such a fashion is to disguise the lack of substance by trying to impress the reader with how many links there are.  honestly, that's why it's written like it is.  i'm supposed to look at it and think "oh wow look at how well-researched this is.  there must be something to this."  not buying it.

a bunch of assorted links about sex rings in norway and "check out this weird painter" and "podesta mentioned some guy in an email once" isn't anything but subterfuge.

Just read the text on that page in its entirety. If you have any questions about the legitimacy of a claim click on the associated urls.

i read a bunch of them.  is there anything in there better than "podesta likes this weird painter"?  i know lots of people who like shitty art.  bfd.

also i love the "code" in the infographic.  it leads to sentences i would've made playing mad-libs in jr. high:
Quote
From: Mary Podesta [mailto:podesta.mary@gmail.com]
Subject: Re: People of color orgy?ing
People of color growing northern CA surely knows and celebrates people of color little boy orgy? Actually what surprises me is that we haven't already served it to you.

On Apr 11, 2015 3:51 PM, "John Podesta" wrote: It's an amazing Ligurian dish made with crushed people of color made into a paste. So stop being so California. JP --Sent from my iPad--

On Apr 11, 2015, at 5:45 PM, Jim Steyer wrote: Hey John, We know you're a true master of cuisine and we have appreciated that for years ... But people of color orgy for the little boy? Mary, plz tell us the straight story, was the orgy actually very tasty? Love to all the Podestas from the Steyers! Cheers, Jim

has it ever occured to y'all that maybe pizza just isn't an uncommon thing to talk about?  and, you know, some people eat and enjoy pizza?  have you people never worked in an office before?  never emailed coworkers about food?  never shared an inside joke with anyone?   

you think it's more likely that they meant "fisting little boy assholes" or whatever?  why?  other than the fact that you saw it in an infographic, what actual, tangible reason do you have for believing that john podesta means "fucking children" instead of the words he actually wrote?  this is the thing i can't wrap my mind around.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on December 09, 2016, 02:59:37 AM
You have your take on the evidence and I have mine.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: trekky0623 on December 09, 2016, 12:13:35 PM
You have your take on the evidence and I have mine.

Linking to a subreddit isn't really presenting us with evidence. It's just a lazy way of avoiding having to defend your position.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Lord Dave on December 09, 2016, 01:35:20 PM
You have your take on the evidence and I have mine.

If you need to interpret evidence, then it becomes opinion, not fact.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on December 09, 2016, 07:11:01 PM
You have your take on the evidence and I have mine.

If you need to interpret evidence, then it becomes opinion, not fact.

Isn't that what prosecutors and scientists do?
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: George on December 09, 2016, 07:59:10 PM
All evidence needs to be interpreted, yes, but these interpretations being drawn here are just wackadoodle.  You really think that having weird art is a sign of guilt?  Or that the authors of these emails couldn't just be joking instead of making serious confessions?
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: trekky0623 on December 09, 2016, 08:22:58 PM
You have your take on the evidence and I have mine.

If you need to interpret evidence, then it becomes opinion, not fact.

Isn't that what prosecutors and scientists do?

Scientists interpret data.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on December 09, 2016, 09:11:52 PM
All evidence needs to be interpreted, yes, but these interpretations being drawn here are just wackadoodle.  You really think that having weird art is a sign of guilt?  Or that the authors of these emails couldn't just be joking instead of making serious confessions?

No, I think it's too much, all together, in concert that paint this as at least plausible.

In me eyes, these allegations are so appalling and disturbing that they are worthy of investigation, if even on an off chance it is true. No stones should be left unturned when it comes to protecting innocent children from these very real predators.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: garygreen on December 09, 2016, 10:03:22 PM
i agree with truthisonhere.  anyone who doesn't like the right kind of art should be subject to search and seizure by the state.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on December 09, 2016, 10:44:13 PM
i agree with truthisonhere.  anyone who doesn't like the right kind of art should be subject to search and seizure by the state.

Anyone who has direct access to children who puts up the type of shit that Alefentis did should be investigated.

You can downplay it all you want to, if art was the extent of it then I'd be inclined to agree with you.

And it's not even to say they should get raided etc... its the point no one is even touching it with a 100ft pole that is disturbing. They refuse to even discuss it in the same frame of reference to other "conspiracy theorist fueled" stories out there. They are outright calling it fake news. They never referred to 9/11 truther articles as fake news before. Why all of a sudden make this distinction. That is the thing that has intrigued most people.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on December 09, 2016, 11:19:56 PM
They never referred to 9/11 truther articles as fake news before. Why all of a sudden make this distinction. That is the thing that has intrigued most people.

Because the "fake news" phenomenon as it exists now did not exist back when 9/11 was big news.

The pervasiveness of social media has provided a new infrastructure for the proliferation of fake news sources at an unprecedented scale. Yes, there have always existed news sources that are biased/unethical. But this STYLE of fake news at this scale is relatively new.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: George on December 10, 2016, 05:00:35 AM
I've found several articles comparing it to other conspiracy theories and discussing why and how in general they spread:

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-38156985

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/12/08/the-satanic-roots-of-pizzagate-how-a-30-year-old-sex-panic-explains-today/

http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/6/13854110/pizzagate-comet-ping-pong-shooting-conspiracy-theory-analysis

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/05/politics/pizza-gate-conspiracy-theories-why-believe/

The mainstream media aren't refusing to cover or investigate this.  They have, in fact, summarized the bulk of the Internet's detective work quite succinctly in most articles discussing this - weird art and weird phrasing in emails.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Pete Svarrior on December 10, 2016, 10:48:51 AM
Because the "fake news" phenomenon as it exists now did not exist back when 9/11 was big news.

The pervasiveness of social media has provided a new infrastructure for the proliferation of fake news sources at an unprecedented scale. Yes, there have always existed news sources that are biased/unethical. But this STYLE of fake news at this scale is relatively new.
To say that they didn't exist, or that this specific flavour of bs news didn't exist, is a bit of a stretch. Naturally, you're completely right that the scale of the spread is unprecedented, but as long as you knew the right e-mail happy people, usenet groups or forums, you'd observe pretty much the same patterns.

I'm not just saying that to be pedantic. I propose the distinction is important, because I believe this surge of popularity of fake news could have been easily predicted and prevented. The mainstream media kept delivering increasingly partisan and tendentious spins on their stories until the lines became blurred. Now, I'm not gonna say that Fox News or CNN caused it all, but they were definitely key players in the decline of journalism.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Lord Dave on December 10, 2016, 11:22:15 AM
You have your take on the evidence and I have mine.

If you need to interpret evidence, then it becomes opinion, not fact.

Isn't that what prosecutors and scientists do?


Fair enough, I retract my statememt.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: trekky0623 on December 10, 2016, 12:39:41 PM
Because the "fake news" phenomenon as it exists now did not exist back when 9/11 was big news.

The pervasiveness of social media has provided a new infrastructure for the proliferation of fake news sources at an unprecedented scale. Yes, there have always existed news sources that are biased/unethical. But this STYLE of fake news at this scale is relatively new.
To say that they didn't exist, or that this specific flavour of bs news didn't exist, is a bit of a stretch. Naturally, you're completely right that the scale of the spread is unprecedented, but as long as you knew the right e-mail happy people, usenet groups or forums, you'd observe pretty much the same patterns.

I'm not just saying that to be pedantic. I propose the distinction is important, because I believe this surge of popularity of fake news could have been easily predicted and prevented. The mainstream media kept delivering increasingly partisan and tendentious spins on their stories until the lines became blurred. Now, I'm not gonna say that Fox News or CNN caused it all, but they were definitely key players in the decline of journalism.

It's less that it didn't exist and more that people just ignored it, that is until the Democrats felt that this fake news may have helped Trump get elected. Then it suddenly becomes big news.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on December 10, 2016, 02:30:50 PM
Because the "fake news" phenomenon as it exists now did not exist back when 9/11 was big news.

The pervasiveness of social media has provided a new infrastructure for the proliferation of fake news sources at an unprecedented scale. Yes, there have always existed news sources that are biased/unethical. But this STYLE of fake news at this scale is relatively new.
To say that they didn't exist, or that this specific flavour of bs news didn't exist, is a bit of a stretch. Naturally, you're completely right that the scale of the spread is unprecedented, but as long as you knew the right e-mail happy people, usenet groups or forums, you'd observe pretty much the same patterns.

I'm not just saying that to be pedantic. I propose the distinction is important, because I believe this surge of popularity of fake news could have been easily predicted and prevented. The mainstream media kept delivering increasingly partisan and tendentious spins on their stories until the lines became blurred. Now, I'm not gonna say that Fox News or CNN caused it all, but they were definitely key players in the decline of journalism.

Agreed on all points. But I think there is slightly more to it than just the scale. The ability to target each person individually with entertainment and news that is tailored to their specific tastes is somewhat new. Before, you knew any story that comes from Channel Such-and-Such is probably left-biased. Any Fwd:Fwd:Fwd:Fwd: chain email from Aunt MildlyRacist is going to have racist overtones. But now many people get a significant portion of their entertainment and news from facebook. Much of which is tailored to your specific user profile, and seems to just pop up from nowhere. Everyone ends up in their own little self-reinforcing bubble of opinion, and it can be difficult to notice that it is happening.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Rama Set on December 10, 2016, 03:13:56 PM
You have your take on the evidence and I have mine.

If you need to interpret evidence, then it becomes opinion, not fact.

Isn't that what prosecutors and scientists do?


Fair enough, I retract my statememt.

But there is a huge difference between interpreting and trying to actively mitigate your bias and interpreting which requires baseless leaps in logic. For example thetruthisonhere cannot clearly state why having a few pieces artwork with odd depictions of children and some emails about pizza with no context means there is a child sex slave ring operating out of a non-existent basement of a pizzeria.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Lord Dave on December 10, 2016, 04:04:49 PM
You have your take on the evidence and I have mine.

If you need to interpret evidence, then it becomes opinion, not fact.

Isn't that what prosecutors and scientists do?


Fair enough, I retract my statememt.

But there is a huge difference between interpreting and trying to actively mitigate your bias and interpreting which requires baseless leaps in logic. For example thetruthisonhere cannot clearly state why having a few pieces artwork with odd depictions of children and some emails about pizza with no context means there is a child sex slave ring operating out of a non-existent basement of a pizzeria.
I know.  I retracted my atatement of interpretation =opinion.  Not that he's wrong.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on December 10, 2016, 06:04:21 PM
Because the "fake news" phenomenon as it exists now did not exist back when 9/11 was big news.

The pervasiveness of social media has provided a new infrastructure for the proliferation of fake news sources at an unprecedented scale. Yes, there have always existed news sources that are biased/unethical. But this STYLE of fake news at this scale is relatively new.
To say that they didn't exist, or that this specific flavour of bs news didn't exist, is a bit of a stretch. Naturally, you're completely right that the scale of the spread is unprecedented, but as long as you knew the right e-mail happy people, usenet groups or forums, you'd observe pretty much the same patterns.

I'm not just saying that to be pedantic. I propose the distinction is important, because I believe this surge of popularity of fake news could have been easily predicted and prevented. The mainstream media kept delivering increasingly partisan and tendentious spins on their stories until the lines became blurred. Now, I'm not gonna say that Fox News or CNN caused it all, but they were definitely key players in the decline of journalism.

It's safe to say journalism is dead in America, and likely in a majority of the world as well.

However, I still don't see how this particular investigation is "fake news." I'm trying to figure out what's "fake" about it. From what I've seen, no one is ever claiming to have a smoking gun, in fact it's pretty clear to anyone viewing the voluminous amounts of circumstance that there is no concrete evidence. You may have read or stumbled onto a clickbait website with a more sensational headline, but for the most part this internet powered investigation isn't being done by any "news" website, real or fake. It's by concerned people. These people that are pouring hours upon hours into this aren't getting paid advertising dollars to spread misinformation.

It seems everyone has abstracted this conversation into what is or isn't journalism, or news. That's just the conversation a pedophile sex ring would want you to have. They want you to remove the people and argue concepts, ignore the potential victims and paint this as a partisan witch hunt. I don't think only Podesta and "democrats" are involved in this, I believe it is vast, and it is not outside the realm of possibility, considering this exact type of scheme has been exposed NUMEROUS times in the past. Their ultimate hope is that people will not be able to see past the outrageousness of the claims to even consider the possibility of it being true. Humans don't want to believe other humans could or would do this... but unfortunately for any potential victims, not everyone operates in the confines of Good Will.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Lord Dave on December 10, 2016, 07:11:18 PM
Because the "fake news" phenomenon as it exists now did not exist back when 9/11 was big news.

The pervasiveness of social media has provided a new infrastructure for the proliferation of fake news sources at an unprecedented scale. Yes, there have always existed news sources that are biased/unethical. But this STYLE of fake news at this scale is relatively new.
To say that they didn't exist, or that this specific flavour of bs news didn't exist, is a bit of a stretch. Naturally, you're completely right that the scale of the spread is unprecedented, but as long as you knew the right e-mail happy people, usenet groups or forums, you'd observe pretty much the same patterns.

I'm not just saying that to be pedantic. I propose the distinction is important, because I believe this surge of popularity of fake news could have been easily predicted and prevented. The mainstream media kept delivering increasingly partisan and tendentious spins on their stories until the lines became blurred. Now, I'm not gonna say that Fox News or CNN caused it all, but they were definitely key players in the decline of journalism.

It's safe to say journalism is dead in America, and likely in a majority of the world as well.

However, I still don't see how this particular investigation is "fake news." I'm trying to figure out what's "fake" about it. From what I've seen, no one is ever claiming to have a smoking gun, in fact it's pretty clear to anyone viewing the voluminous amounts of circumstance that there is no concrete evidence. You may have read or stumbled onto a clickbait website with a more sensational headline, but for the most part this internet powered investigation isn't being done by any "news" website, real or fake. It's by concerned people. These people that are pouring hours upon hours into this aren't getting paid advertising dollars to spread misinformation.

It seems everyone has abstracted this conversation into what is or isn't journalism, or news. That's just the conversation a pedophile sex ring would want you to have. They want you to remove the people and argue concepts, ignore the potential victims and paint this as a partisan witch hunt. I don't think only Podesta and "democrats" are involved in this, I believe it is vast, and it is not outside the realm of possibility, considering this exact type of scheme has been exposed NUMEROUS times in the past. Their ultimate hope is that people will not be able to see past the outrageousness of the claims to even consider the possibility of it being true. Humans don't want to believe other humans could or would do this... but unfortunately for any potential victims, not everyone operates in the confines of Good Will.


One queation:
How do you know what law enforcement has or hasn't investigated?  Do you know every single thing the FBI looks at?
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on December 11, 2016, 09:36:13 PM
What evidence you have that pizzagate is fake?
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Lord Dave on December 11, 2016, 11:02:27 PM
What evidence you have that pizzagate is fake?
It's not my burden of proof to prove it's fake, but yours to prove it's true.

However...
That the evidence presented is circumstantial at best.

How do you know a picture on a wall is the international symbol of pedophiles?
Why would a raid in another country have any relation to Anthony Weiner's laptop?  Said raid would have taken months to setup and could not be done in a few days, not with that many people.

Alot of the evidence presented is coincidental and shallow, requiring the information to be linked without anything to support such a link.  Like those pictures:
No actual proof they're in the pizza joint but even if they are, so what?  Art is weird.  And the ones in the bathroom?  Yeah... that looks like grafiti.  You know, like what's in every bathroom.


Seriously, all this evidence requires you to say they're linked without having proof of a link between them.  Sort of like saying "Because you're on this forum, you MUST be a flat-earther".
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on December 12, 2016, 07:04:14 AM
You must be ok with kid diddling then Dave. Because anyone that looks at this objectively should at least think it's weird enough to where you wouldn't let your kid go there.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on December 12, 2016, 09:04:49 AM
You must be ok with kid diddling then Dave. Because anyone that looks at this objectively should at least think it's weird enough to where you wouldn't let your kid go there.

Yeah! If you don't join TheTruthIsOnHere in making baseless accusations of kid diddling, you must be a kid diddler yourself!

Btw, objectively, the evidence looks like absolutely nothing.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Lord Dave on December 12, 2016, 09:07:01 AM
You must be ok with kid diddling then Dave. Because anyone that looks at this objectively should at least think it's weird enough to where you wouldn't let your kid go there.
Wow... Telling me how I should see the data and what conclusions I shoukd draw.  Fun. 


Of course, even if I believed everything, it woukd still be save for my child to go there.  Why, you ask?  Because the accusations are about an underground child sex ring, not children being taken during business hours and abused in a basement that doesn't exist.


Tell me, how many children have been reported missing from comet ping pong?  What did that lone gunman find?
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Pete Svarrior on December 12, 2016, 12:43:56 PM
Agreed on all points. But I think there is slightly more to it than just the scale. The ability to target each person individually with entertainment and news that is tailored to their specific tastes is somewhat new. Before, you knew any story that comes from Channel Such-and-Such is probably left-biased. Any Fwd:Fwd:Fwd:Fwd: chain email from Aunt MildlyRacist is going to have racist overtones. But now many people get a significant portion of their entertainment and news from facebook. Much of which is tailored to your specific user profile, and seems to just pop up from nowhere. Everyone ends up in their own little self-reinforcing bubble of opinion, and it can be difficult to notice that it is happening.
Yes, that's fair enough. I guess I'd still describe it as "scale" (I think people always filtered the content they view to match their prejudices, it's just much easier now), but that sounds more like a difference in how we describe the phenomenon rather than how we perceive it.

tbh I'm more worried about the response to this issue than the issue itself. In the wake of Trump's victory, many major social media sites promised to crack down on certain types of content. I'm not entirely convinced that Faceless Corporation X will always be unanimous in determining what's true and what isn't. Personally, I'd be much more in favour of protecting fake news under the principle of net neutrality (yeah, I'm stretching the term a bit, but I'm sure you see what I mean) and instead encourage mainstream media to deliver content of much higher quality. If we assume that the decline of mainstream media is a major factor in all this, then hopefully fixing MSM would go some way towards alleviating the problem. Restricting access to alternatives (bullshit as they may be) poses too many risks.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on December 12, 2016, 04:14:29 PM
Anyone without any concern whatsoever about kids being abused has to at least be a sociopath, more likely a psychopath.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Rama Set on December 12, 2016, 04:17:06 PM
Anyone without any concern whatsoever about kids being abused has to at least be a sociopath, more likely a psychopath.

How does thinking a painting is not the same as reality qualify as not being concerned? How is not engaging in a witch hunt the same as being apathetic?
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: trekky0623 on December 12, 2016, 06:09:47 PM
Anyone without any concern whatsoever about kids being abused has to at least be a sociopath, more likely a psychopath.

Won't anyone think of the children???
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on December 12, 2016, 06:13:56 PM
Anyone without any concern whatsoever about kids being abused has to at least be a sociopath, more likely a psychopath.

How does thinking a painting is not the same as reality qualify as not being concerned? How is not engaging in a witch hunt the same as being apathetic?

I almost just had an embolism trying to read that. I'm not asking for a witch hunt, I'm asking for an investigation. And no, I don't know which, if any agencies have seriously investigated this matter. But if James Comey has shown my anything, it's that there is very little interest in prosecuting the rich and powerful either way. 
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Rama Set on December 12, 2016, 06:34:11 PM
Anyone without any concern whatsoever about kids being abused has to at least be a sociopath, more likely a psychopath.

How does thinking a painting is not the same as reality qualify as not being concerned? How is not engaging in a witch hunt the same as being apathetic?

I almost just had an embolism trying to read that. I'm not asking for a witch hunt, I'm asking for an investigation. And no, I don't know which, if any agencies have seriously investigated this matter. But if James Comey has shown my anything, it's that there is very little interest in prosecuting the rich and powerful either way.

An investigation based on terrible evidence is a witch hunt.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Lord Dave on December 12, 2016, 06:51:54 PM
Quote from: TheTruthIsOnHere link=topic=5549.msg108332#msg108332
I'm asking for an investigation. And no, I don't know which, if any agencies have seriously investigated this matter.


You answer the first line with the second yet don't seem to realize it.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on December 12, 2016, 07:42:08 PM
Anyone without any concern whatsoever about kids being abused has to at least be a sociopath, more likely a psychopath.

How does thinking a painting is not the same as reality qualify as not being concerned? How is not engaging in a witch hunt the same as being apathetic?

I almost just had an embolism trying to read that. I'm not asking for a witch hunt, I'm asking for an investigation. And no, I don't know which, if any agencies have seriously investigated this matter. But if James Comey has shown my anything, it's that there is very little interest in prosecuting the rich and powerful either way.

An investigation based on terrible evidence is a witch hunt.

Investigations are meant to discover more evidence. At this point you need to find probable cause. That's generally how things work in America.

Funny though, a lot of people in here championing the right to privacy and protection under the constitution are the same ones who want to lock people up for hate speech and further restrict guns.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Lord Dave on December 12, 2016, 08:05:41 PM
Investigations are meant to discover more evidence. At this point you need to find probable cause. That's generally how things work in America.
.... Aren't you saying that they should already have probable cause?

Regardless, step one in any investigation is to determine if a crime has been committed.  You can't, for example, investigate someone for murder until you know someone was murdered.  Then you need to link that person to the crime.

Quote
Funny though, a lot of people in here championing the right to privacy and protection under the constitution are the same ones who want to lock people up for hate speech and further restrict guns.
Has anyone here actually said "We should lock up Donald Trump and his supporters?"  I mean, HE (and his supporters) said we should lock up Hillary Clinton but I don't know of any wide spread message of the reverse being true.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: George on December 12, 2016, 08:47:33 PM
And who wants to lock people up for hate speech?  I think we're pretty unanimous on that being stupid.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on December 12, 2016, 10:47:32 PM
Threatening retribution for "hate speech" is just one of many tactics to limit our 1st amendment. Labeling any organization that doesn't vomit an AP or Reuters script as "fake news" is just another tactic in the multi-faceted attack on our liberties.

@Dave... You should do some research into human and child trafficking and see how hard it is for people to escape that particularly evil form of slavery. So yes, I believe there is a ton of circumstance, that in my mind illustrate this as probable, thankfully we have a higher standard in our justice system as what is considered probable cause. So you need a survivor to speak up about it, unfortunately, for whatever strange reason (the offenders writing the laws?), child sexual abuse seems to have a relatively short statute of limitations. If only these people had access to a pig farm, would be a great place to destroy any evidence as well.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on December 12, 2016, 11:03:41 PM
Agreed on all points. But I think there is slightly more to it than just the scale. The ability to target each person individually with entertainment and news that is tailored to their specific tastes is somewhat new. Before, you knew any story that comes from Channel Such-and-Such is probably left-biased. Any Fwd:Fwd:Fwd:Fwd: chain email from Aunt MildlyRacist is going to have racist overtones. But now many people get a significant portion of their entertainment and news from facebook. Much of which is tailored to your specific user profile, and seems to just pop up from nowhere. Everyone ends up in their own little self-reinforcing bubble of opinion, and it can be difficult to notice that it is happening.
Yes, that's fair enough. I guess I'd still describe it as "scale" (I think people always filtered the content they view to match their prejudices, it's just much easier now), but that sounds more like a difference in how we describe the phenomenon rather than how we perceive it.

tbh I'm more worried about the response to this issue than the issue itself. In the wake of Trump's victory, many major social media sites promised to crack down on certain types of content. I'm not entirely convinced that Faceless Corporation X will always be unanimous in determining what's true and what isn't. Personally, I'd be much more in favour of protecting fake news under the principle of net neutrality (yeah, I'm stretching the term a bit, but I'm sure you see what I mean) and instead encourage mainstream media to deliver content of much higher quality. If we assume that the decline of mainstream media is a major factor in all this, then hopefully fixing MSM would go some way towards alleviating the problem. Restricting access to alternatives (bullshit as they may be) poses too many risks.

Yep. The solution needs to come from public awareness/education and media accountability, rather than new laws. The overreaction is possibly more dangerous than the original problem. I also wonder if mainstream media and journalism are really declining. It has always been rather bad, but the awareness of how bad it is has increased. Awareness is the first step in fixing it for both mainstream and social media. I have no idea what the second step is though  :-\

Threatening retribution for "hate speech" is just one of many tactics to limit our 1st amendment. Labeling any organization that doesn't vomit an AP or Reuters script as "fake news" is just another tactic in the multi-faceted attack on our liberties.

Nobody here has used either of those tactics though. No one is labelling it fake news just because it didn't came from a mainstream source. It is being labelled fake news because the evidence does not back up the accusations being made. It's as simple as that.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Rama Set on December 13, 2016, 12:01:23 AM
Threatening retribution for "hate speech" is just one of many tactics to limit our 1st amendment. Labeling any organization that doesn't vomit an AP or Reuters script as "fake news" is just another tactic in the multi-faceted attack on our liberties.

Don't be a baby. Criticizing a position is perfectly aligned with liberal free speech. If you like you could defend the legitimacy of your position instead of hiding behind outrage.

Quote
@Dave... You should do some research into human and child trafficking and see how hard it is for people to escape that particularly evil form of slavery. So yes, I believe there is a ton of circumstance, that in my mind illustrate this as probable, thankfully we have a higher standard in our justice system as what is considered probable cause. So you need a survivor to speak up about it, unfortunately, for whatever strange reason (the offenders writing the laws?), child sexual abuse seems to have a relatively short statute of limitations. If only these people had access to a pig farm, would be a great place to destroy any evidence as well.

Human trafficking is insidious therefore probable cause. lol!
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: garygreen on December 13, 2016, 01:48:24 AM
Investigations are meant to discover more evidence.

i don't think that anyone disagrees with you that child slavery is abhorrent and should be investigated, but it's a question of who does the investigating and on what grounds.

private citizens can investigate pizzagate as much as they like.  they're bound only by privacy laws.  journalists and their employers have an especially great incentives to expose such a scheme: prizes, money, and fame.

police require cause to violate a citizens' privacy rights.  this is a good thing.  we should not allow the police to violate a citizen's right to due process because they belong to the 'wrong' political party, associate with the 'wrong' people, or like the 'wrong' art.  of course the police should investigate child molesters.  but they shouldn't do it based on what art you like and the names you mention in your emails.  that's tyranny. 

it's difficult to imagine that children are being abducted and raped as sex slaves in a family pizza restaurant without some direct evidence of the crime.  police investigate missing children and shit like that.  it's a popular restaurant in a busy part of town, not some seedy, back-alley dive bar.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Pete Svarrior on December 13, 2016, 01:04:48 PM
I also wonder if mainstream media and journalism are really declining.
Gut feeling tells me it is declining, mostly through entryism of media like HuffPo and Breitbart. They're not quite fake news, but their journalistic standards are appalling, and yet they get to enjoy mainstream media status. "Real" MSM then followed in their tracks to keep up with shifting audiences. Heck, even MTV is partisan these days.

I think it is that shift in standards that ultimately let people to convince themselves of views like "reality has a well-known liberal bias" (in a genuine way, not just as a satirical quip from Colbert). Polarising ideas sell, and in the current state of MSM not much else matters. In other words, this is all about ethics in journalism.

It has always been rather bad, but the awareness of how bad it is has increased. Awareness is the first step in fixing it for both mainstream and social media. I have no idea what the second step is though  :-\
That's a tough one. Either the "old" or "new" media need to lead the charge in fixing this mess. The push against echo chambers is slowly becoming a non-partisan issue (or so I'd gather from people like Nicholas Kristof (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/10/opinion/sunday/the-dangers-of-echo-chambers-on-campus.html) discussing it).

I think our best bet is hoping that after a bit of infighting in the new media crowd, sensible alternatives will eventually start surfacing and gaining popularity.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Lord Dave on December 13, 2016, 01:29:39 PM
I also wonder if mainstream media and journalism are really declining.
Gut feeling tells me it is declining, mostly through entryism of media like HuffPo and Breitbart. They're not quite fake news, but their journalistic standards are appalling, and yet they get to enjoy mainstream media status. "Real" MSM then followed in their tracks to keep up with shifting audiences. Heck, even MTV is partisan these days.

I think it is that shift in standards that ultimately let people to convince themselves of views like "reality has a well-known liberal bias" (in a genuine way, not just as a satirical quip from Colbert). Polarising ideas sell, and in the current state of MSM not much else matters. In other words, this is all about ethics in journalism.

It has always been rather bad, but the awareness of how bad it is has increased. Awareness is the first step in fixing it for both mainstream and social media. I have no idea what the second step is though  :-\
That's a tough one. Either the "old" or "new" media need to lead the charge in fixing this mess. The push against echo chambers is slowly becoming a non-partisan issue (or so I'd gather from people like Nicholas Kristof (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/10/opinion/sunday/the-dangers-of-echo-chambers-on-campus.html) discussing it).

I think our best bet is hoping that after a bit of infighting in the new media crowd, sensible alternatives will eventually start surfacing and gaining popularity.
*agrees on all points*
The problem with fixing itself is the audience itself.  MSM will go where the money/audience is.  And that audience likes to be told certain things in certain ways.  Changing that is very hard.  Like "Everything you know is wrong.  Accept that" hard.  And even if MSM has a sudden and complete reversal of policy and is 100% purely ethical, they'll just lose audience and become fringe while the other, sensational places will become the new MSM.

We don't want to be told the truth, we just want to be validated.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on December 13, 2016, 03:55:08 PM
We don't want to be told the truth, we just want to be validated.

I want to be told the truth.

I don't think the media will get better because I think it is tightly controlled. The polarization was no accident. If all of a sudden there was true free market ideology applied to the media I don't think it would work, because Americans are already too divided.

I don't have any faith that all of a sudden we will have a Mainstream Media that operates as an unbiased bastion of truth as opposed to the Fourth Estate. No matter how much money you can make selling ads, controlling people's minds is so much more valuable.

Don't be a baby. Criticizing a position is perfectly aligned with liberal free speech. If you like you could defend the legitimacy of your position instead of hiding behind outrage.

I don't understand what you mean when you say criticizing a position/liberal free speech part...

I'm talking about the silencing of people who don't agree with the mainstream. They might think that God Hates Fags or whatever... but I respect their right to be a assholes. Also I'm talking about the people who go online and use their "outrage" (self-righteous indignation and undeservingly-assumed moral highground) to cause people to lose their jobs, friends, essentially their livelihoods, over their opinions. That is a very slippery slope, and within a few decades you will have a population afraid to make even the most mundane of statements for fear of retribution.

I'm all for criticizing people, and each other over opinions, because it at least creates a dialogue.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Lord Dave on December 13, 2016, 05:46:01 PM
We don't want to be told the truth, we just want to be validated.

I want to be told the truth.
You Can't Handle The Truth!

Like seriously, you can't.  You think you can but when the truth comes by you brush it off as lies and go elsewhere.  If it's not YOUR truth, you don't wanna hear it.

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I don't think the media will get better because I think it is tightly controlled. The polarization was no accident. If all of a sudden there was true free market ideology applied to the media I don't think it would work, because Americans are already too divided.
Yes, it's called marketing.

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I don't have any faith that all of a sudden we will have a Mainstream Media that operates as an unbiased bastion of truth as opposed to the Fourth Estate. No matter how much money you can make selling ads, controlling people's minds is so much more valuable.
This is what Marketing and Advertisements do.  The MSM isn't some global conspiracy to control people's minds, it's just a bunch of companies who want to get people to watch their news segments for the advertisement dollars.  Cause there's no problem that can't be dealt with by having enough money.

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I don't understand what you mean when you say criticizing a position/liberal free speech part...

I'm talking about the silencing of people who don't agree with the mainstream. They might think that God Hates Fags or whatever... but I respect their right to be a assholes. Also I'm talking about the people who go online and use their "outrage" (self-righteous indignation and undeservingly-assumed moral highground) to cause people to lose their jobs, friends, essentially their livelihoods, over their opinions. That is a very slippery slope, and within a few decades you will have a population afraid to make even the most mundane of statements for fear of retribution.

I'm all for criticizing people, and each other over opinions, because it at least creates a dialogue.
So... what you're saying is you disapprove of Donald Trump's tweets when he calls out someone as well as anyone who sends death threats to people without proof of guilt (or really any reason at all)?
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on December 13, 2016, 05:54:11 PM
...

I feel like you're not understanding what I'm writing at all.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Lord Dave on December 13, 2016, 06:05:05 PM
...

I feel like you're not understanding what I'm writing at all.


There are three possibilites:
1. You are not expressing your thoughts well.
2. You don't understand me.
3. You can't see your own hypocracy.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on December 13, 2016, 06:31:26 PM
...

I feel like you're not understanding what I'm writing at all.


There are three possibilites:
1. You are not expressing your thoughts well.
2. You don't understand me.
3. You can't see your own hypocracy.

1. I think I've been crystal clear
2. I don't
3. What exactly am I being hypocritical about?

Sorry for calling you a kid diddler but it's no reason to give up on using logic when you're trying to argue with me. I feel at this point you have your mind set to pretty much oppose anything I have to say, regardless how obviously true it is.

The media is controlled, it's not a conspiracy, it's the way it was designed to work. With a tiny amount of rudimentary research, and some critical thinking skills, you would discover this yourself. When MSM "journalists" get caught colluding with political parties, candidates, and government agencies (which is one of the biggest revelations from this "hack") you can no longer pretend to have faith that they are going to hold these same entities accountable.

The media is, first and foremost, a tool/weapon used to influence public opinion. I don't know if there was ever a time that it was a accurate reflection of the will and values of society.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Lord Dave on December 13, 2016, 07:41:06 PM
3. What exactly am I being hypocritical about?
Demanding an investigation that you don't know if it already happened but for some reason think you should know about it. 
Demanding that said investigation find evidence even if none has been found.
Thinking that threatening someone for hate speech is bad but on the flip side, seemingly ok with people threatening others for being accused(without hard evidence) of being sexual pedophiles and running a child sex ring.
Wanting the Truth but only the one where you're right.  None of these "alternative news" sites or redit threads have evidence to back it up nor is anyone able to collaborate stories and facts yet you take these at face value.  But if MSM does the same thing, suddenly it's part of the conspiracy.

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Sorry for calling you a kid diddler but it's no reason to give up on using logic when you're trying to argue with me. I feel at this point you have your mind set to pretty much oppose anything I have to say, regardless how obviously true it is.
Again, you assume your view is true because that's the conclusion you came to.  You can't handle anyone else's "truth" because to you, that's not true.  You are locked in your own bubble of how the world is and nothing, not even the absolute, fully objective truth, will change your view. 

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The media is controlled, it's not a conspiracy, it's the way it was designed to work. With a tiny amount of rudimentary research, and some critical thinking skills, you would discover this yourself. When MSM "journalists" get caught colluding with political parties, candidates, and government agencies (which is one of the biggest revelations from this "hack") you can no longer pretend to have faith that they are going to hold these same entities accountable.

The media is, first and foremost, a tool/weapon used to influence public opinion. I don't know if there was ever a time that it was a accurate reflection of the will and values of society.

This is a big block with lots of ideas so let's break it down.
1. The media is controlled.  This is not some radial idea.  An editor decides what articles to put where.  A producer decides what segments to air when in a news broadcast.  A journalist decides what to write in his article.  This is control.  In fact, any spread of information requires control.  Without it, the flood of raw data would be so massive, it would become noise.  Imagine, if you will, there was no control over the weather forecast.  Instead of having someone tell you it'll be sunny skies and 70 degrees, you get a stream of data about probability rankings based on previous data sets from the supercomputer crunching weather patterns. 

2. The media speaking with political parties is neither new, nor is it damnation on the part of either.  There's some things you don't report.  Not because the people shouldn't know, but because they don't need to know or it'll be taken out of context.  Like "The President had a bad day today and threw a snowglobe against the wall.  He was heard shouting that if he had one more country make a comment, he'd nuke all of Asia."  While this is true, it was made in the heat of the moment, while under the assumption of privacy, so reporting it would cause undue damage when it was just venting frustration without actual intention of using nuclear weapons.  You also want to make sure that what you report isn't going to cause issues that shouldn't be caused.  Like reporting that the US military is loading up for a major offensive at 3pm local time in the Gaza strip at a secret terrorist base.  It's true, it's factual, and reporting it before it happens is going to tip off the people you don't want to tip off.  And finally, you need to actually confirm shit.

3. You can find any truth on the internet you wish.  "a little research" isn't much to go on.  Especially if you exclude traditionally reliable sources of information. 

4. Mass Media is in the business of making sure they get money. That's it.  Money is power.  They use many many many tricks to do that job up to and including psychological manipulation.  Same thing advertisers use. 

5. You wanna know something interesting?  The very things you're saying, don't need to be done by MSM.  They are also done by simple, little websites with a list of "facts".  Ever seen a meme with an incorrect or out of context quote?  Where do you think that comes from?  Mainstream media?
And this is what we call Fake News.  Items that are displayed as truth but have no basis or reliability or even the ability to verify the accuracy yet are presented as absolute truth.  And people who already think something is true, are going to see that fake news and agree with it, regardless of the truth.  I mean, I've got an alt-right website and everything on it is absolutely fake.  I just make shit up and see who uses it as evidence.  The amount of people who do it is staggering.  I mean, heck, look hard enough and you can find links to anyone, right?  So you can imagine how easy it is for me to link Al Gore to satanic rituals in the 1800s that brought about the Civil War.  It's in his name: Gore.  where do you think that came from?  It's cause his great great grandfather was often covered in gore as he bathed in entrails of the poor and the slaves.  I even have a picture of him after he escaped the first attempt on his life:
(https://s29.postimg.org/yggd7gup3/Thaddius_Gore.jpg)
He was wounded in the leg by a musket ball.  His second in command, Quinn, managed to get him to a field hospital far away from the patrols.

My point is, you lack the skills to determine what is objectively true, and what you have decided is true.  You make connections without supporting evidence and what evidence you do get is often unverified.

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The media is, first and foremost, a tool/weapon used to influence public opinion. I don't know if there was ever a time that it was a accurate reflection of the will and values of society.
This is ... well, it's true and not.  Media has many roles including entertainer, informer, and to influence public opinion.  Like passing out information pamphlets about AIDS or the pros and cons of voting for a candidate.  Or even this message board.  This is a form of media.

That being said, media is often a reflection of the will and values of society.  But society is not just one absolute, unchanging thing.  Nor are the sames values and will shared by every single person of that society.  Just ask what's important to each person on this forum.
(And journalism should never be a reflection of the will and values of society.  That's called Bias.)


TLDR:
You think anything against your "truth" is fake.
Media does alot of stuff and requires someone to control the flow of data or we'd be flooded.
You think only big things want to control you cause they're big.

Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on December 13, 2016, 07:54:07 PM
TLDR:
One giant exercise in pots calling kettles black


Well thanks for you diagnosis doctor, please feel free to send the bill to right up your ass.

Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Lord Dave on December 13, 2016, 09:45:55 PM
TLDR:
One giant exercise in pots calling kettles black


Well thanks for you diagnosis doctor, please feel free to send the bill to right up your ass.
lol.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: junker on December 13, 2016, 10:06:28 PM
Let's keep it civil, please. Rules are a bit more relaxed than FE fora, but this is still considered an "upper" so a bit of decency toward each other is expected.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on December 14, 2016, 04:36:01 PM
Let's keep it civil, please. Rules are a bit more relaxed than FE fora, but this is still considered an "upper" so a bit of decency toward each other is expected.

I hear ya Junker, I hope Dave knows I'm just playing with him. My ego's assorted amounts of biases are far too strong for him to ever crack either way ;)
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Lord Dave on December 14, 2016, 04:46:39 PM
Let's keep it civil, please. Rules are a bit more relaxed than FE fora, but this is still considered an "upper" so a bit of decency toward each other is expected.

I hear ya Junker, I hope Dave knows I'm just playing with him. My ego's assorted amounts of biases are far too strong for him to ever crack either way ;)
Doesn't bother me.  I do enjoy an exercise in futility.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on December 14, 2016, 05:15:16 PM
Let's keep it civil, please. Rules are a bit more relaxed than FE fora, but this is still considered an "upper" so a bit of decency toward each other is expected.

I hear ya Junker, I hope Dave knows I'm just playing with him. My ego's assorted amounts of biases are far too strong for him to ever crack either way ;)
Doesn't bother me.  I do enjoy an exercise in futility.
Exercise is exercise ;)
Title: Fake news makes real news
Post by: junker on December 15, 2016, 10:47:08 PM
Speaking of fake news, the mainstream media is really pushing this Russian h@xor story as hard as it can. Apparently Putin was personally involved. Of course, no actual evidence has been presented for this beyond claims from anonymous sources. Oh well, I'm enjoying the "fake news" meme so far.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on December 16, 2016, 12:50:13 AM
Speaking of fake news, the mainstream media is really pushing this Russian h@xor story as hard as it can. Apparently Putin was personally involved. Of course, no actual evidence has been presented for this beyond claims from anonymous sources. Oh well, I'm enjoying the "fake news" meme so far.

Whats really unbelievable is that they believe that a rag tag unorganized group of websites spreading russian-hack fueled "fake news" had more of an influence on the election than the 24/7 news cycles of CNN, MSNBC and all the nationwide surrogates of ABC, NBC and FOX, the biased online blog contingent of Huffington Post, AJ+, Nowthis etc.

Maybe that's something to be said about the credibility or lack thereof of said programming if it's influence can be beaten by Infowars and Brietbart (which I never heard of prior to the election).

Fuck it just blame Russia.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: DuckDodgers on December 16, 2016, 01:15:15 AM
When you just know *insert politician here* is crooked, evil, and generally a bad person and a news story comes along to confirm that, it's going to stick with you. It's going to more solidly make you against said person than any stories stating the oposite could sway you toward them.

I'll readily admit there was virtually no news story that would have swayed me to vote for Trump. However, the stories running against him had me contemplating voting for his biggest opponent.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on December 19, 2016, 02:21:37 AM
What evidence you have that pizzagate is fake?
It's not my burden of proof to prove it's fake, but yours to prove it's true.

I didn't claim it was real. You on the other hand claimed it was fake. The burden of proof is on the one who made the first claim and in this case its you. So what evidence do you have that its fake?

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However...
That the evidence presented is circumstantial at best.

How do you know a picture on a wall is the international symbol of pedophiles?

Well I don't KNOW but you made my point for me. It's an international symbol that the sign coincidentally resemble.

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Why would a raid in another country have any relation to Anthony Weiner's laptop?  Said raid would have taken months to setup and could not be done in a few days, not with that many people.

I haven't researched it to say one way or the other.

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Alot of the evidence presented is coincidental and shallow, requiring the information to be linked without anything to support such a link.  Like those pictures:
No actual proof they're in the pizza joint but even if they are, so what?  Art is weird.  And the ones in the bathroom?  Yeah... that looks like grafiti.  You know, like what's in every bathroom.


Seriously, all this evidence requires you to say they're linked without having proof of a link between them.  Sort of like saying "Because you're on this forum, you MUST be a flat-earther".

Like I said, I haven't researched it thoroughly to say one way or another.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Rama Set on December 19, 2016, 03:24:14 AM
The burden of proof is on the one who made the first claim and in this case its you. So what evidence do you have that its fake?

The pizzagate conspiracy claims that the ring is operated out of Comet Ping Pong's basement.  Comet Ping Pong has no basement.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Lord Dave on December 19, 2016, 01:20:00 PM
I didn't claim it was real. You on the other hand claimed it was fake. The burden of proof is on the one who made the first claim and in this case its you. So what evidence do you have that its fake?
Same that I have that you're not a pedophile.
You can't prove something doesn't exist.  In fact, none of the proofs in this thread have satisfied you.  None could.  Your claim of "Investigate" was refused when you admitted that you don't know if they did investigate or not.   Yet for some reason you continue to act as though it's worth investigating.

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However...
That the evidence presented is circumstantial at best.

How do you know a picture on a wall is the international symbol of pedophiles?

Well I don't KNOW but you made my point for me. It's an international symbol that the sign coincidentally resemble.
Just curious... which picture are you (and I ) referring to?  Do you even KNOW what the symbol looks like?  The picture on the wall in the pizza shop?  Or are you just repeating what you read in a redit thread?

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Why would a raid in another country have any relation to Anthony Weiner's laptop?  Said raid would have taken months to setup and could not be done in a few days, not with that many people.

I haven't researched it to say one way or the other.
I have.
They aren't connected in any way. 

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Alot of the evidence presented is coincidental and shallow, requiring the information to be linked without anything to support such a link.  Like those pictures:
No actual proof they're in the pizza joint but even if they are, so what?  Art is weird.  And the ones in the bathroom?  Yeah... that looks like grafiti.  You know, like what's in every bathroom.


Seriously, all this evidence requires you to say they're linked without having proof of a link between them.  Sort of like saying "Because you're on this forum, you MUST be a flat-earther".

Like I said, I haven't researched it thoroughly to say one way or another.
Exactly.  I've done more research than you.  So maybe you should stop making claims on subjects you admit to knowing nothing about.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on December 19, 2016, 04:21:07 PM
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Why would a raid in another country have any relation to Anthony Weiner's laptop?  Said raid would have taken months to setup and could not be done in a few days, not with that many people.

I haven't researched it to say one way or the other.
I have.
They aren't connected in any way. 

Anthony Weiner was married to Huma Abedin who was vice-chairmen of Clinton's campaign.

Wow, not exactly 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon, is it?
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Lord Dave on December 19, 2016, 04:30:34 PM

Luke, I owe you an apology.
I got you mixed up with TheTruthIsOnHere.  Please disreguard my comments.



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Why would a raid in another country have any relation to Anthony Weiner's laptop?  Said raid would have taken months to setup and could not be done in a few days, not with that many people.

I haven't researched it to say one way or the other.
I have.
They aren't connected in any way. 

Anthony Weiner was married to Huma Abedin who was vice-chairmen of Clinton's campaign.

Wow, not exactly 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon, is it?
Yes.  You've linked Clinton to Weiner via his wife.  Nothing more. It is also irrelevant to the topic at hand.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on December 19, 2016, 05:07:01 PM
It may be irrelevant to that exact topic, but to say Hillary Clinton associates with a larger amount of suspected and convicted pedophiles than the average person wouldn't be wrong.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Lord Dave on December 19, 2016, 05:09:29 PM
It may be irrelevant to that exact topic, but to say Hillary Clinton associates with a larger amount of suspected and convicted pedophiles than the average person wouldn't be wrong.
How many convicted does she socialize with?
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on December 19, 2016, 05:10:09 PM
It may be irrelevant to that exact topic, but to say Hillary Clinton associates with a larger amount of suspected and convicted pedophiles than the average person wouldn't be wrong.
How many convicted does she socialize with?

Um... Anthony Weiner?
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Rama Set on December 19, 2016, 05:16:31 PM
It may be irrelevant to that exact topic, but to say Hillary Clinton associates with a larger amount of suspected and convicted pedophiles than the average person wouldn't be wrong.
How many convicted does she socialize with?

Um... Anthony Weiner?

You seem to be confused about convicted means.  Also, you could very easily be associating with a pedophile and have no idea.  For example, one worked at my son's school and no one had any clue until it was too late.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Lord Dave on December 19, 2016, 05:18:50 PM
It may be irrelevant to that exact topic, but to say Hillary Clinton associates with a larger amount of suspected and convicted pedophiles than the average person wouldn't be wrong.
How many convicted does she socialize with?

Um... Anthony Weiner?
I can't seem to find anything that says he's been convicted of pedophilia.  Alligations about a 15 year old high schooler, but not any convictions.

When was the trial?
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on December 19, 2016, 05:25:13 PM
Ok, there seems to be an inordinate amount of allegations of pedophilia surrounding this group of people. No one would agree?
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Lord Dave on December 19, 2016, 05:30:26 PM
Ok, there seems to be an inordinate amount of allegations of pedophilia surrounding this group of people. No one would agree?
No, just one person.
And it's not even the kind often described in the redit thread but on twitter and skype between Weiner and a consenting underage high school girl.

And even so, the link between Weiner and Clinton is, literally, the wife who left him.  Let me put it this way:
If my employee's husband is having an affair with some random woman I don't know, does that mean I'm allowing it?  I know about it?  I'm ok with it?

The answer is: no.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on December 19, 2016, 09:25:08 PM
Ok, there seems to be an inordinate amount of allegations of pedophilia surrounding this group of people. No one would agree?
No, just one person.
And it's not even the kind often described in the redit thread but on twitter and skype between Weiner and a consenting underage high school girl.

And even so, the link between Weiner and Clinton is, literally, the wife who left him.  Let me put it this way:
If my employee's husband is having an affair with some random woman I don't know, does that mean I'm allowing it?  I know about it?  I'm ok with it?

The answer is: no.

Guess you forgot John and Tony Podesta. Bill Clinton's documented factual trips on Lolita Express with Epstein.

Suspicious suicides and suspected pedophiles. How many of those things have you had associated with you lately? At some point you have to recognize a pattern and not be able to just keep chalking this kind of stuff up to coincidence.
Title: Re: Fake news makes real news
Post by: Lord Dave on December 19, 2016, 09:44:16 PM
Ok, there seems to be an inordinate amount of allegations of pedophilia surrounding this group of people. No one would agree?
No, just one person.
And it's not even the kind often described in the redit thread but on twitter and skype between Weiner and a consenting underage high school girl.

And even so, the link between Weiner and Clinton is, literally, the wife who left him.  Let me put it this way:
If my employee's husband is having an affair with some random woman I don't know, does that mean I'm allowing it?  I know about it?  I'm ok with it?

The answer is: no.

Guess you forgot John and Tony Podesta. Bill Clinton's documented factual trips on Lolita Express with Epstein.

Suspicious suicides and suspected pedophiles. How many of those things have you had associated with you lately? At some point you have to recognize a pattern and not be able to just keep chalking this kind of stuff up to coincidence.

Ah yes, the alleged stuff.  Last time I checked, John Podesta didn't have any criminal record of sexual misconduct, underaged or otherwise.  Nor did Tony.  Not that I know of.

As for the "lolita Express"
well... so far everything is alleged as to the plane itself.   All we have as factual is that Epstein was arrested and had a plea deal for soliciting a girl for underaged sex.  He served 30 months in jail for the plea deal.  Acording to Fox News, they had a lot of evidence but it wasn't really released due to the plea deal.


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/05/13/flight-logs-show-bill-clinton-flew-on-sex-offenders-jet-much-more-than-previously-known.html?refresh=true

Of course, guilt by association is a pretty poor argument. 

But hey, maybe Bill is?  Or maybe Bill just likes sex with legally aged women.  Fuck if I know.  But since Bill Clinton's only act seems to be having been on the same plane as the man multiple times, it's not enough to accuse the Clintons of running an underground, illegal sex ring.