The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Theory => Topic started by: conker on October 19, 2015, 11:06:01 AM

Title: Let's do some science, fellas!
Post by: conker on October 19, 2015, 11:06:01 AM
Originally posted at The Flat Earth Society (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=64594.0#.ViTN-n7hDIU)

The rules of this thread are simple: post a snippet of a FE hypothesis, deduce a consecuence from it (such as "Since the Earth is round , we cant see all the way over to the antipodes."), and design a SIMPLE test procedure to test such prediction from it. REMEMBER: all scientific hypothesis must have power of prediction, and their predictions must must differ from the accepted theories, yet still be consistent with anterior testing.
Be sure to use quotes from the authors, references, and so on. This is your opportunity, FErs, you might get free testing. Hey, you may be even right!
Title: Re: Let's do some science, fellas!
Post by: Disgraced_Shield on October 19, 2015, 03:45:34 PM
Prepare to be either ignored or excoriated.
Title: Re: Let's do some science, fellas!
Post by: geckothegeek on October 19, 2015, 05:41:24 PM
Prepare to be banned if you published anything about a "round earth" anywhere except the debate section.
Title: Re: Let's do some science, fellas!
Post by: junker on October 19, 2015, 07:33:11 PM
Prepare to be either ignored or excoriated.
Please refrain from low content posting in the upper fora. Warned.
Title: Re: Let's do some science, fellas!
Post by: junker on October 19, 2015, 07:34:17 PM
Prepare to be banned if you published anything about a "round earth" anywhere except the debate section.

You've literally been warned and had a short ban for the exact same thing you are doing now. Please refrain from low-content posting in the upper fora. A longer ban will occur next.
Title: Re: Let's do some science, fellas!
Post by: Disgraced_Shield on October 20, 2015, 02:28:22 PM
Prepare to be either ignored or excoriated.
Please refrain from low content posting in the upper fora. Warned.

Having moderated a forum or two myself, I understand the need to keep things constructive and worthwhile.
However, the responses or lack thereof from the targeted members of the community will determine if my comment was 'low content' or a valid warning won't they?

Far be it from me to lock horns with an administrator though.  :)
Title: Re: Let's do some science, fellas!
Post by: Charming Anarchist on October 20, 2015, 04:37:57 PM
snippet of FE hypothesis:  The earth is flat. 

consequence of snippet:  Shills will spend MORE time perpetuating lies in online forums than honest/honorable/intelligent folks will spend sharing truth. 

test:  set up an online forum and tell the truth!
Title: Re: Let's do some science, fellas!
Post by: Pongo on October 20, 2015, 06:17:32 PM
Having moderated a forum or two myself, I understand the need to keep things constructive and worthwhile.
However, the responses or lack thereof from the targeted members of the community will determine if my comment was 'low content' or a valid warning won't they?

No.  This thread is about Conker asking flat-earthers to do work for him, not Conker asking round-earthers to predict whether or not flat-earthers will respond.  While your statement may be true, it's not on topic and therefor, a low-content post. 

To clarify, if I responded to Conker saying that I will get paid this Friday, rocks hurt people when thrown at them, or grass is green, they would all be true statements, but none of them would be on topic.

To note, posting about how you think flat-earthers are going to respond is a huge deterrent to flat-earthers responding.  When three members "low-content bomb" a thread, two mods move in to address it, and one of the a fore mentioned members argues the point... well, you can see how it's going to be daunting to any flat-earther who was even willing to preform Conker's oddly worded and deceptively "simple" litany of tasks.

How about next time we all just wait and see how flat-earthers respond rather than predicting how they respond?
Title: Re: Let's do some science, fellas!
Post by: Disgraced_Shield on October 20, 2015, 09:14:55 PM
Having moderated a forum or two myself, I understand the need to keep things constructive and worthwhile.
However, the responses or lack thereof from the targeted members of the community will determine if my comment was 'low content' or a valid warning won't they?

No.  This thread is about Conker asking flat-earthers to do work for him, not Conker asking round-earthers to predict whether or not flat-earthers will respond.  While your statement may be true, it's not on topic and therefor, a low-content post. 

To clarify, if I responded to Conker saying that I will get paid this Friday, rocks hurt people when thrown at them, or grass is green, they would all be true statements, but none of them would be on topic.

To note, posting about how you think flat-earthers are going to respond is a huge deterrent to flat-earthers responding.  When three members "low-content bomb" a thread, two mods move in to address it, and one of the a fore mentioned members argues the point... well, you can see how it's going to be daunting to any flat-earther who was even willing to preform Conker's oddly worded and deceptively "simple" litany of tasks.

How about next time we all just wait and see how flat-earthers respond rather than predicting how they respond?

Alright. Fair enough. I'll stop being a pecker-head.  ;)
Title: Re: Let's do some science, fellas!
Post by: conker on October 21, 2015, 10:14:47 AM
In clarification, I do not expect you to do those tests, of course. In fact, I will try to perform any tests that are feasible, given my capabilities. To come up with this kind of tests is no easy task, yes, but also a basic pillar of science.
Title: Re: Let's do some science, fellas!
Post by: ISeeColours on November 03, 2015, 03:23:06 PM
Observation: earth looks flat
Hypothese: earth is flat
Further Investigation: earth looks flat from over here too
Hypothese Confirmed: earth is flat
I did a science!
Title: Re: Let's do some science, fellas!
Post by: Disgraced_Shield on November 03, 2015, 03:40:19 PM
Observation: earth looks flat
Hypothese: earth is flat
Further Investigation: earth looks flat from over here too
Hypothese Confirmed: earth is flat
I did a science!

I realize you're trolling, but I suggest looking up the story of the Elephant and the blind men. In short, sometimes you can see the truth, sometimes you can't. Simply 'seeing' a flat earth doesn't necessarily mean the earth is flat, because you're limiting your perception of the truth to your own point of view.

Title: Re: Let's do some science, fellas!
Post by: ISeeColours on November 03, 2015, 04:02:43 PM
I suggest you look up some scientific litterature.
Title: Re: Let's do some science, fellas!
Post by: Disgraced_Shield on November 03, 2015, 06:49:15 PM
I suggest you look up some scientific litterature.

To what end? This forum has proved time and again that scientific literature gets treated the same way as any social data does- interpreted loosely enough to satisfy any ends you like.
Shit, you could probably do a bit of digging and find something to support the theory that the earth is a tetrahedron made of fermented crab apples.

I'm a dedicated round-earther. I don't believe for a second that the earth is flat. All I'm saying by referencing the elephant and blind man story, is that individual perception is not necessarily a firm basis for truth.

Individual observation, or personal interpretation of said observation doesn't necessarily make for scientific data.

Sometimes the truth can't be directly observed.


Title: Re: Let's do some science, fellas!
Post by: ISeeColours on November 03, 2015, 08:31:41 PM
I suggest you look up some scientific litterature.

To what end? This forum has proved time and again that scientific literature gets treated the same way as any social data does- interpreted loosely enough to satisfy any ends you like.
Shit, you could probably do a bit of digging and find something to support the theory that the earth is a tetrahedron made of fermented crab apples.

I'm a dedicated round-earther. I don't believe for a second that the earth is flat. All I'm saying by referencing the elephant and blind man story, is that individual perception is not necessarily a firm basis for truth.

Individual observation, or personal interpretation of said observation doesn't necessarily make for scientific data.

Sometimes the truth can't be directly observed.

Really? Proven huh? Are you one of those who thinks all space travel is faked too?
My first post was not trolling at all, it was sarcasm to imply how flat earthers think science works, just because they don't understand science they get scared of it, I don't blant them. But you can't read every article posted on "I fucking love science" because that's a lot of sci-fi speculations, other science media too. Try gong to a library instead, maybe you'll find some proper science papers there.
Title: Re: Let's do some science, fellas!
Post by: Tintagel on November 04, 2015, 12:04:01 AM
I suggest you look up some scientific litterature.

To what end? This forum has proved time and again that scientific literature gets treated the same way as any social data does- interpreted loosely enough to satisfy any ends you like.
Shit, you could probably do a bit of digging and find something to support the theory that the earth is a tetrahedron made of fermented crab apples.

I'm a dedicated round-earther. I don't believe for a second that the earth is flat. All I'm saying by referencing the elephant and blind man story, is that individual perception is not necessarily a firm basis for truth.

Individual observation, or personal interpretation of said observation doesn't necessarily make for scientific data.

Sometimes the truth can't be directly observed.

Really? Proven huh? Are you one of those who thinks all space travel is faked too?
My first post was not trolling at all, it was sarcasm to imply how flat earthers think science works, just because they don't understand science they get scared of it, I don't blant them. But you can't read every article posted on "I fucking love science" because that's a lot of sci-fi speculations, other science media too. Try gong to a library instead, maybe you'll find some proper science papers there.

Above: evidence that round earthers are so blinded by their own virtiol that they don't even realize when they're arguing with another round earther.
Title: Re: Let's do some science, fellas!
Post by: ISeeColours on November 04, 2015, 07:15:18 AM
I suggest you look up some scientific litterature.

To what end? This forum has proved time and again that scientific literature gets treated the same way as any social data does- interpreted loosely enough to satisfy any ends you like.
Shit, you could probably do a bit of digging and find something to support the theory that the earth is a tetrahedron made of fermented crab apples.

I'm a dedicated round-earther. I don't believe for a second that the earth is flat. All I'm saying by referencing the elephant and blind man story, is that individual perception is not necessarily a firm basis for truth.

Individual observation, or personal interpretation of said observation doesn't necessarily make for scientific data.

Sometimes the truth can't be directly observed.

Really? Proven huh? Are you one of those who thinks all space travel is faked too?
My first post was not trolling at all, it was sarcasm to imply how flat earthers think science works, just because they don't understand science they get scared of it, I don't blant them. But you can't read every article posted on "I fucking love science" because that's a lot of sci-fi speculations, other science media too. Try gong to a library instead, maybe you'll find some proper science papers there.

Above: evidence that round earthers are so blinded by their own virtiol that they don't even realize when they're arguing with another round earther.

Wrong, Earth is flat my friend.
Title: Re: Let's do some science, fellas!
Post by: Pete Svarrior on November 04, 2015, 01:24:42 PM
I'm a dedicated round-earther. I don't believe for a second that the earth is flat.
Ah, good, so you're aware you will never be able to approach the subject scientifically.

Why are you still here?
Title: Re: Let's do some science, fellas!
Post by: Second Opinion on November 04, 2015, 03:17:43 PM
I suggest you look up some scientific litterature.

To what end? This forum has proved time and again that scientific literature gets treated the same way as any social data does- interpreted loosely enough to satisfy any ends you like.
Shit, you could probably do a bit of digging and find something to support the theory that the earth is a tetrahedron made of fermented crab apples.

I'm a dedicated round-earther. I don't believe for a second that the earth is flat. All I'm saying by referencing the elephant and blind man story, is that individual perception is not necessarily a firm basis for truth.

Individual observation, or personal interpretation of said observation doesn't necessarily make for scientific data.

Sometimes the truth can't be directly observed.

Really? Proven huh? Are you one of those who thinks all space travel is faked too?
My first post was not trolling at all, it was sarcasm to imply how flat earthers think science works, just because they don't understand science they get scared of it, I don't blant them. But you can't read every article posted on "I fucking love science" because that's a lot of sci-fi speculations, other science media too. Try gong to a library instead, maybe you'll find some proper science papers there.

Above: evidence that round earthers are so blinded by their own virtiol that they don't even realize when they're arguing with another round earther.

Wrong, Earth is flat my friend.

That is some solid science right there!
I propose the earth is flat because, star charts only work on a "globe", because the actual perspective, is in fact a plane, from what I see.
Title: Re: Let's do some science, fellas!
Post by: Disgraced_Shield on November 05, 2015, 01:26:22 PM
I'm a dedicated round-earther. I don't believe for a second that the earth is flat.
Ah, good, so you're aware you will never be able to approach the subject scientifically.



Couldn't one say the same for any of you? This is where fact and legitimate science, regardless of its aim- take a back seat and our own opinions start to drive the discussion, which really starts to taint the entire thing.
 
I don't agree with you so I'm blind.
You don't agree with me, so you're blind.

I'm a dedicated round-earther because nobody's been able to prove otherwise. I've been given anecdotal and proof of concept evidence, all of which can be refuted at one turn or another.

I'm here because at first I was curious as to the nature of your community. I'm still here because while nobody's been able to convince me that the earth is flat, I'm learning about other things on the side.

I absolutely love how you people dismiss those who disagree with you. "You don't believe, so why are you here? You must be stupid/crazy/a troll."

In reality, your comment about my not being able to approach things scientifically is ironic.  Deeply, hilariously ironic.

If you don't want us here, don't have an entire sub-forum called "Flat earth debate." Debate and discussion are the at the forefront of scientific discovery. Like it or not, myself, and those like me who aren't legitimately trolling you are very, very critical to your cause, and as soon as you stop engaging us, or jump to shut us out and dismiss us, or refuse to answer our questions, any shred of credibility you can hope to have vanishes like the sun on the back side of the globe  ;) True, you end up answering the same, tired old questions every time some round-earth proponent discovers you exist, gets his hackles up, and creates an account, and I'm sorry for that. But you're the ones touting a divergence from accepted theories, and you need to take the time to explain to newcomers, one and all what you think, how you came to think it, and engage their (our) discussion instead of getting defensive and dismissive with "Wtf are you doing here if you don't believe? Shill! Troll!"

Some of you do a spectacular job of handling 'us' and I really and truly enjoy fencing with you.  Some of you don't.

I'm here because I like to learn. I may not be learning that the earth is flat, but damn if I'm not learning a ton about scientific observation and experimentation, as well as gaining a fairly in-depth incite on the mind-set of people who believe in an alternate reality.

'Science' is a multi-faceted reality. Social science is as legitimate a study as geology, astronomy, and biology, and your forum is one hell of a place to learn lessons in so very many fields.
Title: Re: Let's do some science, fellas!
Post by: Pete Svarrior on November 06, 2015, 10:01:59 PM
I have no problem with RE'ers. I have a problem with people who come here and announce in advance that they won't even consider the opposing side - no matter what that side may be. Seriously, what's the point in discussing things when your idea of a discussion is so unilateral?
Title: Re: Let's do some science, fellas!
Post by: Disgraced_Shield on November 07, 2015, 05:41:34 PM
Seriously, what's the point in discussing things when your idea of a discussion is so unilateral?

Isn't yours? You continue to debate with us, which is awesome, I appreciate it- but be honest, regardless of what anyone posts, are you more apt to look at it and say "hmm. Could be" or look for a way to dismiss it as propaganda?

The reality of the situation is, we're doing the exact same thing from different sides of the fence. Like a political argument, neither side has much chance of converting the other, but damn if it isn't fun.  :)
Title: Re: Let's do some science, fellas!
Post by: andruszkow on November 13, 2015, 09:52:58 AM
Except political debates are based in difference of opinion. There's no such thing as difference of opinion with facts. There's true and false. Fact or fiction. You can't have an opinion about that.
Title: Re: Let's do some science, fellas!
Post by: Disgraced_Shield on November 13, 2015, 03:18:24 PM
Except political debates are based in difference of opinion. There's no such thing as difference of opinion with facts. There's true and false. Fact or fiction. You can't have an opinion about that.

You can absolutely have a difference of opinion with fact. It's all in the interpretation.

Fact: The earth appears flat when you look out the window.

Interpretation #1: The earth must be flat.
Interpretation #2: You ain't seein' all of it.


This entire debate is the result of an interpretation of a handful of observations, complete or incomplete. There are basic scientific facts which everyone can agree on- it's the conclusions drawn from those facts which make all the difference.

Example:

Poisson's Spot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arago_spot (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arago_spot)

Fact: Shine a light at a ball, and you get a light spot in the middle of the shadow.

Interpretation #1: This applies to the earth. If it were round, light would bend around the globe and it would never be dark.

Interpretation #2: This does not apply to the earth because specific circumstances of the experiment are not able to be replicated, (Point light source as opposed to a star, smooth surface, and fresnel's equasion has to be exact) and thus has no bearing on the shape of the earth.


Now, that being said- you are correct if you start to drill down and present factual evidence that is irrefutable and not really open to interpretation.

Fact: The circumstances in the Poisson's Spot experiment need to be exact in order for it to be successfuly replicated.

Interpretation #1: 
Interpretation #2: Correct.



Facts the world over, be they political, scientific, economical, or otherwise, will usually be interpreted and possibly spun- to meet the needs of whomever is presented the data.

I'm not arguing with you so much as justifying my analogy.  :)

Title: Re: Let's do some science, fellas!
Post by: Gabesan21 on November 16, 2015, 03:46:13 PM
I would like to see a model of this flat earth in proportional scales. Only to make a few observations about the sun light. Anyone knows how can i find some 3D models that fits well?

Only to explain why: I can make a simple observation of the spherical earth model with a ball and a lantern, to see how works day and night. To do the same thing in flat earth model, i think that is more complex, hardly to make a experiment with real objects. I need to observe in a 3D software.

I'm a believer of spherical earth, but i'm trying to understand how things could work in flat earth. I need some experimental proof. Can you help me? (a simple handly experiments could help too)

Let's do some Science!