The Flat Earth Society

The Flat Earth Society => Suggestions & Concerns => Topic started by: Thork on July 16, 2014, 04:37:29 PM

Title: Membership suggestion
Post by: Thork on July 16, 2014, 04:37:29 PM
Having read some of Daniel's objections to our validity ... why don't we open up membership?

And make it free.

You basically register on this site or facebook app etc, and become part of the list?

I know its a little tricky, but we could allow people to add their names, have the site generate a .pdf membership certificate with their name on, and allow those who register to download their certificate. It will be free. I'm sure people will register friends and family for jokes but so what? It gets us out there. But we can promote it on facebook, etc and get a massive number of people as members.

No £12 fee. If later we want to allow the purchase of T-shirts and flat earth starter packs, we can. I don't know why we don't do this. We could just use a 3rd party vendor to ensure all the merch gets sent out, we'd not even be involved after we set it up.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: Пардисфла on July 16, 2014, 04:39:03 PM
This was something I had always assumed would be handled by the Zetetic Council (possibly with technical assistance from us, once they've decided how to do it). They run the Society, so they should administer the membership. I'm not sure if pizaaplanet is in agreement with that or not.

Anyway, I'm heading to bed right now, so I'll see where this thread is at tomorrow.
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: Thork on July 16, 2014, 04:40:39 PM
I want people's opinions. If I put it in the council forum, I'll be the only one there. Tom is ill and the others aren't around.

If its popular, we can push ahead. :-)
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: junker on July 16, 2014, 04:46:23 PM
I like the idea. Not to refute Daniel's claim of legitimacy (seems like Wikipedia handled that), but because it is an added value for our members. I may be too closely relating the society and the forum, so I understand where Parsifal is coming from. It will certainly require effort from multiple people to be administered efficiently.
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: markjo on July 16, 2014, 05:19:21 PM
What's the point of becoming a member of a FES where none of the members want to discuss FET?  It's like joining an astronomy club where no one wants to talk about looking at the stars.
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: Thork on July 16, 2014, 05:58:21 PM
What's the point of becoming a member of a FES where none of the members want to discuss FET?  It's like joining an astronomy club where no one wants to talk about looking at the stars.
Stop moaning.
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: Ghost of V on July 16, 2014, 06:15:15 PM
It does sound like this site would become more-so a social club than an actual community to discuss the flatness of Earth.
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: Particle Person on July 16, 2014, 06:18:37 PM
It does sound like this site would become more-so a social club than an actual community to discuss the flatness of Earth.

How would a free and basically meaningless membership system make this site any more or less of a social club?
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: Ghost of V on July 16, 2014, 06:28:47 PM
It does sound like this site would become more-so a social club than an actual community to discuss the flatness of Earth.

How would a free and basically meaningless membership system make this site any more or less of a social club?

Signing up on the forum is already pretty much a free membership to TFES, and it's more like a social club than a Flat Earth discussion group already. I disagree with making people pay for a membership to begin with. Maybe we should make every member of the forum a member of TFES? Skeptics and true believers alike.

Off-topic: I think the T-shirt idea is great. I would certainly purchase one.
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: markjo on July 16, 2014, 07:06:40 PM
It does sound like this site would has become more-so a social club than an actual community to discuss the flatness of Earth.
Fixed, because it already happened about 6 months ago.
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: Ghost of V on July 16, 2014, 07:08:22 PM
It does sound like this site would has become more-so a social club than an actual community to discuss the flatness of Earth.
Fixed, because it already happened about 6 months ago.

Just another reason why every member of the forum should be given a TFES membership.
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: Lord Dave on July 16, 2014, 08:30:26 PM
Well, you gotta start somewhere.

It seems like a good enough idea.  Just make sure you have a list of people who do sign up so it's slightly more official.  You should probably put in some clause saying that the members should discuss FET at least once in a while.
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: Thork on July 16, 2014, 08:47:10 PM
Well, you gotta start somewhere.

It seems like a good enough idea.  Just make sure you have a list of people who do sign up so it's slightly more official.  You should probably put in some clause saying that the members should discuss FET at least once in a while.

Why the clause? If you want to be 'a friend of the flat earth society', sign up, download your little certificate if you want... that's it. We could give 'friends of the flat earth society a little square' too. It hurts no one, other than an administrator every once in a while.
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: Lord Dave on July 16, 2014, 11:00:56 PM
Well, you gotta start somewhere.

It seems like a good enough idea.  Just make sure you have a list of people who do sign up so it's slightly more official.  You should probably put in some clause saying that the members should discuss FET at least once in a while.

Why the clause? If you want to be 'a friend of the flat earth society', sign up, download your little certificate if you want... that's it. We could give 'friends of the flat earth society a little square' too. It hurts no one, other than an administrator every once in a while.
I don't think friends count as actual members.
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: jroa on July 16, 2014, 11:10:19 PM
I think a membership register should be voluntary.  Perhaps one of the council members can volunteer to keep up with it and people can send him/her a PM with their choice of information to add to it, such as initials, city, first and/or last name, country, or what ever information that member wants to be displayed on his/her membership.  That council member would then just have to transfer the information from the PM to the list.
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: Pete Svarrior on July 16, 2014, 11:56:18 PM
I don't think friends count as actual members.
Not that we should necessarily be influenced by that, but on the old site, "Friends of the Flat Earth" are the people who paid for their membership packs, while "Associate Members" are the ones who got on the roster free of charge, needing to only send a postcard. (Last I checked, the count of associate members was 5)

I agree that a membership register should be opt-in, but otherwise, I'd be happy to accommodate it from a technical side.

The T-shirt idea comes up every now and then. When we last discussed it, everyone seemed to think it's a good idea. The main reason we're somewhat reluctant is that, frankly, we don't want people to think we're doing this for money, and the easiest way to guarantee we never get this accusation is by not having anything that costs money. But maybe it's time to give those a trial run? I have some friends at TeeGlobe (http://teeglobe.com/) - one of those companies that offer a new t-shirt every day for a period of 48 hours, they're dirt cheap, and they deliver worldwide. I could get in touch with them and see if they'd be willing to put up a design of ours. That way we could at least partially satisfy the initial need for tees among members and potentially get a little bit more attention from the outside world, and depending on how that goes, we could then decide whether or not we want to set up something long-term.

What do people think?
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: jroa on July 17, 2014, 12:09:38 AM
I really like the idea.  I would buy a few.  Since the time line for ordering is short, perhaps we should have a 1 month advanced notice so everyone has time to plan on their purchase?

Anyone artsy fartsy enough to make the design? 
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: markjo on July 17, 2014, 01:38:31 AM
You should probably put in some clause saying that the members should discuss FET at least once in a while.
I don't think that a clause compelling discussion of FET among members is the answer.  Let's face it, if a number of people get together and are genuinely interested in something (whether they actually believe in it or not), then discussion will flow naturally.  The fact there is little to no discussion of FET on a FES web site suggests that few, if any, "members" have any genuine interest in FET.
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: Particle Person on July 17, 2014, 03:15:28 AM
You should probably put in some clause saying that the members should discuss FET at least once in a while.
I don't think that a clause compelling discussion of FET among members is the answer.  Let's face it, if a number of people get together and are genuinely interested in something (whether they actually believe in it or not), then discussion will flow naturally.  The fact there is little to no discussion of FET on a FES web site suggests that few, if any, "members" have any genuine interest in FET.

Or they do, but they got tired of arguing the same topics with people like you repeatedly.
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: markjo on July 17, 2014, 03:28:00 AM
You should probably put in some clause saying that the members should discuss FET at least once in a while.
I don't think that a clause compelling discussion of FET among members is the answer.  Let's face it, if a number of people get together and are genuinely interested in something (whether they actually believe in it or not), then discussion will flow naturally.  The fact there is little to no discussion of FET on a FES web site suggests that few, if any, "members" have any genuine interest in FET.

Or they do, but they got tired of arguing the same topics with people like you repeatedly.
Are you saying that there are no aspects of FET left for FE'ers to discuss among themselves?  Have all the mysteries of FET been solved?  Do all FE'ers agree on the same FE model? 
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: Ghost of V on July 17, 2014, 05:23:02 AM
You should probably put in some clause saying that the members should discuss FET at least once in a while.
I don't think that a clause compelling discussion of FET among members is the answer.  Let's face it, if a number of people get together and are genuinely interested in something (whether they actually believe in it or not), then discussion will flow naturally.  The fact there is little to no discussion of FET on a FES web site suggests that few, if any, "members" have any genuine interest in FET.

Or they do, but they got tired of arguing the same topics with people like you repeatedly.
Are you saying that there are no aspects of FET left for FE'ers to discuss among themselves?  Have all the mysteries of FET been solved?  Do all FE'ers agree on the same FE model?

Most are petty differences. The fundamentals of FET have been solidly rooted in fact since the 1800s.
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: Thork on July 17, 2014, 04:54:58 PM
You should probably put in some clause saying that the members should discuss FET at least once in a while.
I don't think that a clause compelling discussion of FET among members is the answer.  Let's face it, if a number of people get together and are genuinely interested in something (whether they actually believe in it or not), then discussion will flow naturally.  The fact there is little to no discussion of FET on a FES web site suggests that few, if any, "members" have any genuine interest in FET.

Or they do, but they got tired of arguing the same topics with people like you repeatedly.
Are you saying that there are no aspects of FET left for FE'ers to discuss among themselves?  Have all the mysteries of FET been solved?  Do all FE'ers agree on the same FE model? 
Yes, you can leave now. Show's over.
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: Thork on July 17, 2014, 09:43:51 PM
The T-shirt idea comes up every now and then. When we last discussed it, everyone seemed to think it's a good idea. The main reason we're somewhat reluctant is that, frankly, we don't want people to think we're doing this for money, and the easiest way to guarantee we never get this accusation is by not having anything that costs money. But maybe it's time to give those a trial run? I have some friends at TeeGlobe (http://teeglobe.com/) - one of those companies that offer a new t-shirt every day for a period of 48 hours, they're dirt cheap, and they deliver worldwide. I could get in touch with them and see if they'd be willing to put up a design of ours. That way we could at least partially satisfy the initial need for tees among members and potentially get a little bit more attention from the outside world, and depending on how that goes, we could then decide whether or not we want to set up something long-term.

What do people think?
Can you not get your friends at teeglobe to charge their part and not add any extra commission for FES? And if not, could we not donate the money to a worthwhile charity? Save the penguins or some other kinda FES related thing? Maybe a kids charity. That would probably be better.
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: Tom Bishop on July 19, 2014, 04:23:37 PM
I support opening up membership as Thork suggests. Membership isn't meaningless because it's freely given. It is meaningful because that person deliberately chose to become a member of the Flat Earth Society.
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: fappenhosen on July 20, 2014, 03:15:58 AM
There should be three grades of membership:

Bronze £100 - basic. Discourage anyone from taking this through social manipulation/isolation etc
Gold £500 - standard. Fine for most members.
Platinum £5000 - the best. All members should strive for this even though most of them are too weak to ever be able to afford it. Anyone who has an ugly wife will be refused Platinum.

I am already Platinum. I will be in charge of revenue collection.
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: Ghost of V on July 20, 2014, 03:34:27 AM
I will PayPal you a platinum membership.
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: fappenhosen on July 20, 2014, 03:57:16 PM
Do you have an ugly wife?
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: Tau on July 20, 2014, 05:04:35 PM
I think a membership register should be voluntary.  Perhaps one of the council members can volunteer to keep up with it and people can send him/her a PM with their choice of information to add to it, such as initials, city, first and/or last name, country, or what ever information that member wants to be displayed on his/her membership.  That council member would then just have to transfer the information from the PM to the list.

I'd be willing to do this. It's a good idea.

I also support opening up membership. Which makes it a majority vote from the council. I'll go make it official in the board.
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: Tom Bishop on July 22, 2014, 01:47:39 AM
The certificate should be in an Old English font and read something in line with the following:


The Flat Earth Society

By the Authority and Approval of the Zetetic Council

Be it known on this day of ___________ that


_______________________________

Being of Sound Mind and Moral Character,
Having fulfilled all the Society's Requirements
And having Sworn Solemnly to Combat
the Globularist Hersey and all its Dupes and Hirelings
Has been admitted Full Membership and Official Standing in

The Flat Earth Society
 
With all the Rights and Privileges that attach thereto

SOCIETY SEAL                             COUNCIL SIGNATURES
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: Rama Set on July 22, 2014, 01:54:47 AM
I know you are trying to make it sound officious and dramatic, but maybe the word heresy will not help unwanted associations with religious extremism.
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: Particle Person on July 22, 2014, 01:57:42 AM
What about the word hersey?
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: Rama Set on July 22, 2014, 02:22:16 AM
What about the word hersey?

It's a word with decidedly religious connotations. I am pretty confident in saying the the FES prides itself on not deriving its belief from religion, so using the word heresy seems to be a mixed signal.
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: Tau on July 22, 2014, 02:36:06 AM
I'm inclined to agree with Rama. The biggest complaint about the old Official Membership Certificate, as I remember, was its religious connotations. I think we should try to distance ourselves from religion as much as possible. Can we replace Heresy with something else?
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: Particle Person on July 22, 2014, 02:37:43 AM
I would change "dupes and hirelings" as well. That just seems immature.
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: Tau on July 22, 2014, 02:45:08 AM
How about

The Flat Earth Society

By the Authority and Approval of the Zetetic Council

Be it known on this day of ___________ that


_______________________________

Being of Sound Mind and Moral Character,
Having fulfilled all the Society's Requirements
And having Sworn Solemnly to Promote
Flat Earth Theory to the Best of [preferred pronoun] Ability, And
To Combat Globularism in all its Forms,
Has been admitted Full Membership and Official Standing in

The Flat Earth Society
 
With all the Rights and Privileges that attach thereto

SOCIETY SEAL                             COUNCIL SIGNATURES
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: Tom Bishop on July 22, 2014, 02:59:33 AM
Here is a picture to sway the audience:

(http://manonthelam.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Geoge-Bernard-Shaw-Flat-Earth-Society.jpg)

And a quote! --

"We are more gullible and superstitious today than we were in the Middle Ages, and an example of modern credulity is the widespread belief that the Earth is round.  The average man can advance not a single reason for thinking that the Earth is round.  He merely swallows this theory because there is something about it that appeals to the twentieth century mentality."

- George Bernard Shaw
in Everybody's Political What's What (1944)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41pTupdnUpL.jpg)
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: markjo on July 22, 2014, 03:08:00 AM
Just out of curiosity, what exactly are "all the Society's Requirements" that need to be fulfilled in order to be granted membership?  Also, just what "Rights and Privileges" are attached?

And what's wrong with this one:
(https://documents.clubexpress.com/clubs/383871/graphics/Flat_Earth_Society_Membership_Certificate.jpg)
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: Tom Bishop on July 22, 2014, 02:38:31 PM
Just out of curiosity, what exactly are "all the Society's Requirements" that need to be fulfilled in order to be granted membership?

A working computer with at least 64MB of RAM, 233 Mhz Processor, 1.5 GB Disk Space, and 28.8k Modem with internet access.

Quote
Also, just what "Rights and Privileges" are attached?

Members of The Flat Earth Society are granted the privilege of announcing to friends, family, and all who can hear that they are now a standing member of an exclusive group of intellectuals who believe that the earth is flat.

Quote
And what's wrong with this one:

Everything.
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: Thork on July 22, 2014, 04:36:35 PM
I quite like Tom's version.

Heresy (let's spell it right guys) was exactly the charge levelled at Galileo. He was found guilty and subsequently confessed to this crime. Its exactly the right term to use. In fact, we may be able to lift some of Galileo's retraction into part of the certificate wording.

Quote from: Galileo
I ... abandon the false opinion that the Sun was the centre of the universe and immoveable, and that the Earth was not the centre of the same and that it moved, and that I was neither to hold, defend, nor teach in any manner whatever, either orally or in writing, the said false doctrine. I have been judged vehemently suspected of heresy, that is, of having held and believed that the Sun is the centre of the universe and immoveable, and that the Earth is not the centre of the same, and that it does move.

I abjure with sincere heart and unfeigned faith, I curse and detest the said errors and heresies, and generally all and every error. And I swear that for the future I will neither say nor assert in speaking or writing such things as may bring upon me similar suspicion; and if I know any heretic, or one suspected of heresy, I will denounce him.

I Galileo Galilei aforesaid have abjured, sworn, and promised, and hold myself bound as above; and in token of the truth, with my own hand have subscribed the present schedule of my abjuration, and have recited it word by word. In Rome, at the Convent della Minerva, this 22nd day of June,

So the wording is kind of olde wurlde, but it says the things we should be asking. That you renounce your globular assertions, will cease to teach these false opinions and that you pledge to uphold the beliefs of the society. The society is built on tradition, we inherited it. The wording should hark to the core histories of Flat Earth Theory.

Boom. Job done. Lets face it, for a lot of people, its meant to be a bit of fun, and its the kind of thing they expect from a bunch of nut-jobs anyway.

I quite like Tom's first draft. The wording could be tweaked, but the sentiment is about right. :)
 
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: Lord Dave on July 22, 2014, 05:03:42 PM
What if I join then tell everyone the earth is round?
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: Thork on July 22, 2014, 05:08:07 PM
What if I join then tell everyone the earth is round?
Then we will put you under house arrest for the rest of your natural life.
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: jroa on July 22, 2014, 05:45:21 PM
My main complaint with the certificate from the old site is the misuse/lack of commas. 
Title: Re: Membership suggestion
Post by: fappenhosen on July 22, 2014, 10:50:56 PM
I forgot to mention that Platinum members get access to the Members Lounge. Hurry there are limited places!