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Other Discussion Boards => Philosophy, Religion & Society => Topic started by: Rushy on August 10, 2019, 02:12:39 PM

Title: Jeffrey Epstein is Dead
Post by: Rushy on August 10, 2019, 02:12:39 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/us/jeffrey-epstein-dead-by-suicide-found-in-manhattan-jail-cell

His death is an apparent "suicide"...

This is after only a few names have been released, including Prince Andrew of the UK royal family and Bill Richardson, the former governor of New Mexico, each implicated in an international pedophile ring.
Title: Re: Jeffrey Epstein is Dead
Post by: Lord Dave on August 10, 2019, 09:55:22 PM
He tried to kill himself, was put on suicide watch, taken off suicide watch, then killed himself.

Is anyone shocked?  This is either a "hit", a "I promised to keep those people safe to keep molesting girls" or "I'll never survive in prison.... best die by by terms."

With luck, he'll have alot of "blackmail" evidence at his home.
Title: Re: Jeffrey Epstein is Dead
Post by: totallackey on August 11, 2019, 08:46:57 AM
He tried to kill himself, was put on suicide watch, taken off suicide watch, then killed himself.

Is anyone shocked?  This is either a "hit", a "I promised to keep those people safe to keep molesting girls" or "I'll never survive in prison.... best die by by terms."

With luck, he'll have alot of "blackmail" evidence at his home.
Nobody in a US prison who attempts suicide prior to trial is ever taken off suicide watch.
Title: Re: Jeffrey Epstein is Dead
Post by: Lord Dave on August 11, 2019, 09:22:31 AM
He tried to kill himself, was put on suicide watch, taken off suicide watch, then killed himself.

Is anyone shocked?  This is either a "hit", a "I promised to keep those people safe to keep molesting girls" or "I'll never survive in prison.... best die by by terms."

With luck, he'll have alot of "blackmail" evidence at his home.
Nobody in a US prison who attempts suicide prior to trial is ever taken off suicide watch.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/10/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-suicide-watch.html

Well someone didn't get the memo.
Title: Re: Jeffrey Epstein is Dead
Post by: totallackey on August 11, 2019, 11:16:03 AM
He tried to kill himself, was put on suicide watch, taken off suicide watch, then killed himself.

Is anyone shocked?  This is either a "hit", a "I promised to keep those people safe to keep molesting girls" or "I'll never survive in prison.... best die by by terms."

With luck, he'll have alot of "blackmail" evidence at his home.
Nobody in a US prison who attempts suicide prior to trial is ever taken off suicide watch.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/10/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-suicide-watch.html

Well someone didn't get the memo.
Rest assured what I have written is true.
Title: Re: Jeffrey Epstein is Dead
Post by: Lord Dave on August 11, 2019, 12:40:45 PM
He tried to kill himself, was put on suicide watch, taken off suicide watch, then killed himself.

Is anyone shocked?  This is either a "hit", a "I promised to keep those people safe to keep molesting girls" or "I'll never survive in prison.... best die by by terms."

With luck, he'll have alot of "blackmail" evidence at his home.
Nobody in a US prison who attempts suicide prior to trial is ever taken off suicide watch.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/10/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-suicide-watch.html

Well someone didn't get the memo.
Rest assured what I have written is true.

I don't doubt it.  So why was he?
Title: Re: Jeffrey Epstein is Dead
Post by: Rushy on August 11, 2019, 12:53:24 PM
This is what happens when the people running and using an international pedophile ring also happen to be the people running your government, and more importantly, your justice system. Epstein got off easy the first time, clearly this time around the risk was too high and he was suicided by a hit.

It might have been the Trumps, it might have been the Clintons, it might have been any number of his clients. The man was sitting on a web that involves nearly all rich and powerful people in the West. Now, yet again, nothing will happen. The deep state wins again and the common people lose.
Title: Re: Jeffrey Epstein is Dead
Post by: honk on August 11, 2019, 01:54:33 PM
Rest assured what I have written is true.

Do you have a source for that or anything? I absolutely agree that Epstein should have been watched closely at all times, but I've seen nothing about it being a general rule that suicide watch is permanent, which I'd think would have come up in the articles discussing the incident.
Title: Re: Jeffrey Epstein is Dead
Post by: Lord Dave on August 11, 2019, 03:06:23 PM
Huh.

According to this:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/jeffrey-epstein-death-how-cause-die-suicide-watch-jail-victims-sex-trafficking-fbi-question-a9051856.html

Lackey is mostly wrong.
They may keep them on watch until trial but it seems they can take them off with face to face psych eval.  No mention of a trial.
Title: Re: Jeffrey Epstein is Dead
Post by: totallackey on August 11, 2019, 05:17:21 PM
Rest assured what I have written is true.

Do you have a source for that or anything? I absolutely agree that Epstein should have been watched closely at all times, but I've seen nothing about it being a general rule that suicide watch is permanent, which I'd think would have come up in the articles discussing the incident.
Huh.

According to this:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/jeffrey-epstein-death-how-cause-die-suicide-watch-jail-victims-sex-trafficking-fbi-question-a9051856.html

Lackey is mostly wrong.
They may keep them on watch until trial but it seems they can take them off with face to face psych eval.  No mention of a trial.
I am not wrong.

I have written policy/procedure for the IDOC.

I know what policies and procedures require for people who are awaiting trial ( yet to have been formally sentenced), require. These people , if placed on suicide watch, will not be removed from suicide watch.

LD , the article offers nothing because no one will formally state he was removed.
Title: Re: Jeffrey Epstein is Dead
Post by: Lord Dave on August 11, 2019, 05:36:18 PM
Rest assured what I have written is true.

Do you have a source for that or anything? I absolutely agree that Epstein should have been watched closely at all times, but I've seen nothing about it being a general rule that suicide watch is permanent, which I'd think would have come up in the articles discussing the incident.
Huh.

According to this:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/jeffrey-epstein-death-how-cause-die-suicide-watch-jail-victims-sex-trafficking-fbi-question-a9051856.html

Lackey is mostly wrong.
They may keep them on watch until trial but it seems they can take them off with face to face psych eval.  No mention of a trial.
I am not wrong.

I have written policy/procedure for the IDOC.

I know what policies and procedures require for people who are awaiting trial ( yet to have been formally sentenced), require. These people , if placed on suicide watch, will not be removed from suicide watch.

LD , the article offers nothing because no one will formally state he was removed.
The article states the federal policy clearly: that one can be taken off with a proper psych eval.  It does not mention that it must be after trial.  If you can link to the federal policy (not the state policy, which your work would entail) that would be great.

Either way, he was taken off suicide watch and no one cared for about 3 weeks.
Title: Re: Jeffrey Epstein is Dead
Post by: honk on August 11, 2019, 07:35:07 PM
I am not wrong.

I have written policy/procedure for the IDOC.

I know what policies and procedures require for people who are awaiting trial ( yet to have been formally sentenced), require. These people , if placed on suicide watch, will not be removed from suicide watch.

LD , the article offers nothing because no one will formally state he was removed.

So, no, you don't have an actual source, is what you're saying. Even in a case where virtually everyone can see that something shady is going on, you can't resist muddying the waters to puff up how knowledgeable and authoritative you supposedly are.
Title: Re: Jeffrey Epstein is Dead
Post by: totallackey on August 11, 2019, 09:40:37 PM
Rest assured what I have written is true.

Do you have a source for that or anything? I absolutely agree that Epstein should have been watched closely at all times, but I've seen nothing about it being a general rule that suicide watch is permanent, which I'd think would have come up in the articles discussing the incident.
Huh.

According to this:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/jeffrey-epstein-death-how-cause-die-suicide-watch-jail-victims-sex-trafficking-fbi-question-a9051856.html

Lackey is mostly wrong.
They may keep them on watch until trial but it seems they can take them off with face to face psych eval.  No mention of a trial.
I am not wrong.

I have written policy/procedure for the IDOC.

I know what policies and procedures require for people who are awaiting trial ( yet to have been formally sentenced), require. These people , if placed on suicide watch, will not be removed from suicide watch.

LD , the article offers nothing because no one will formally state he was removed.
The article states the federal policy clearly: that one can be taken off with a proper psych eval.  It does not mention that it must be after trial.  If you can link to the federal policy (not the state policy, which your work would entail) that would be great.

Either way, he was taken off suicide watch and no one cared for about 3 weeks.
I am not wrong.

I have written policy/procedure for the IDOC.

I know what policies and procedures require for people who are awaiting trial ( yet to have been formally sentenced), require. These people , if placed on suicide watch, will not be removed from suicide watch.

LD , the article offers nothing because no one will formally state he was removed.

So, no, you don't have an actual source, is what you're saying. Even in a case where virtually everyone can see that something shady is going on, you can't resist muddying the waters to puff up how knowledgeable and authoritative you supposedly are.
You can read the NY TIMES if you care and they will state clearly policies were violated in the case of Epstein.

Yeah, I have sources.

I have referred you to sources.

Choosing to ignore them is on you.

You can access correctional policy and procedure through the web.
Title: Re: Jeffrey Epstein is Dead
Post by: totallackey on August 11, 2019, 09:43:00 PM
Listen to the first two minutes for verification of what I wrote:
https://youtu.be/jMCgMV6Cs10
Title: Re: Jeffrey Epstein is Dead
Post by: totallackey on August 11, 2019, 09:58:49 PM
Look here
https://www.bop.gov/mobile/policy/index.jsp
Look here
https://www.bop.gov/resources/publications.jsp
Maybe this will help to serve all as to what or what I do not know about this subject.

Regardless, these are all definitive sources.
Title: Re: Jeffrey Epstein is Dead
Post by: stack on August 11, 2019, 11:17:46 PM
Look here
https://www.bop.gov/mobile/policy/index.jsp
Look here
https://www.bop.gov/resources/publications.jsp
Maybe this will help to serve all as to what or what I do not know about this subject.

Regardless, these are all definitive sources.

Using the first link did a search on 'suici'

This one came up:

U.S. Department of Justice
        Federal Bureau of Prisons

OPI: CPD/PSB NUMBER: P5324.08 DATE: 4/5/2007
SUBJECT: Suicide Prevention Program
RULES EFFECTIVE: 3/15/2007

Page 13:

d. Watch Termination and Post-Watch Report. Based upon clinical findings, the Program Coordinator or designee will:
     1) Remove the inmate from suicide watch when the inmate is
no longer at imminent risk for suicide, or
     2) Arrange for the inmate’s transfer to a medical referral
center or contract health care facility.
Once an inmate has been placed on watch, the watch may not be terminated, under any circumstance, without the Program Coordinator or designee performing a face-to-face evaluation. Only the Program Coordinator will have the authority to remove an inmate from suicide watch. Generally, the post-watch report should be completed in PDS prior to terminating the watch, or as soon as possible following watch termination, to ensure appropriate continuity of care. Copies of the report will be forwarded to the central file, medical record, psychology file, and the Warden. There should be a clear description of the resolution of the crisis and guidelines for follow-up care.
Title: Re: Jeffrey Epstein is Dead
Post by: Rushy on August 12, 2019, 12:45:31 AM
So Honk and Dave didn't really have to do anything, Lackey proved himself wrong with his own links. Incredible.
Title: Re: Jeffrey Epstein is Dead
Post by: Lord Dave on August 12, 2019, 04:06:57 AM
Thanks lackey.  That was easy.
Title: Re: Jeffrey Epstein is Dead
Post by: totallackey on August 12, 2019, 10:36:35 AM
So Honk and Dave didn't really have to do anything, Lackey proved himself wrong with his own links. Incredible.
Yes.

I apologize the NY TIMES wrote that policy was violated, clearly in direct contradiction to what I wrote.

Yes.

I apologize that Epstein was housed in the SHU, was placed on suicide watch, and that all subsequent written material indicates he was still on suicide watch, a direct contradiction of what I wrote.

Must've missed all that.
Title: Re: Jeffrey Epstein is Dead
Post by: totallackey on August 12, 2019, 09:13:08 PM
In addition to the previous video I posted  ( stating clearly several policies and procedures were violated), it seems AG Barr is not going to let this go:
https://youtu.be/O7yYQ0Iu91U
Title: Re: Jeffrey Epstein is Dead
Post by: Chicken Fried Clucker on August 14, 2019, 05:02:56 AM
No one is going to mention the malfunctioning camera system?

When you have someone that high profile behind bars, there is no excuse for errors and the best of the best deal with it.

Something certainly is wrong here
Title: Re: Jeffrey Epstein is Dead
Post by: honk on August 14, 2019, 02:14:50 PM
The "malfunctioning camera" notion came from an uncorroborated tweet from a random guy on Twitter:

https://heavy.com/news/2019/08/jeffrey-epstein-camera-malfunction/

There's almost certainly nothing to it.

https://www.channel4.com/news/exclusive-met-police-decided-not-to-conduct-full-investigation-into-court-claims-of-sex-trafficking-of-girl-in-prince-andrew-photo

Of course not. Why would they?
Title: Re: Jeffrey Epstein is Dead
Post by: honk on November 17, 2019, 05:47:38 AM
https://news.sky.com/story/prince-andrew-denies-sex-with-17-year-old-i-went-to-pizza-express-that-day-11862902

I would make a Pizzagate joke here or something, but it really isn't funny how nothing will ever happen to this guy no matter how obvious he makes it that he was in up to his neck in Epstein's dirty business.
Title: Re: Jeffrey Epstein is Dead
Post by: Baby Thork on November 17, 2019, 03:33:24 PM
Do you remember having sex with this woman 3 times?
No. I don't remember ever meeting her. Ever.
But there's a photo. You did meet.
I don't remember. My memory isn't so great.
So what were you doing on the 10 of March 2001?
Oh, I remember that like it was yesterday. I took my daughter to Pizza Express in Woking for a party before spending the night at home.
Title: Re: Jeffrey Epstein is Dead
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 17, 2019, 03:52:37 PM
If Epstein was running a blackmail ring to make money, as was rumored, it is possible that Prince Andrew actually is innocent.

Epstein just needs to get the girls close to the victim and have some pictures. Why would he invite his high profile friends to a house and then personally take pictures of them together? Obvious blackmail material. Whether the high profile mark actually went through with it or not, and it's a toss up whether they were even willing, once lawyers start calling them on the girl's behalf, telling them that a girl is claiming rape and there are pictures of them together there is a large chance for a big payout.

Unfortunately Prince Andrew may not actually be rich, despite his title, and couldn't make it go away. The lawyers are probably pushing it and making it public because the Epstein trial brought this to an endgame and they want the Crown to step in and make it go away with money. We should only assume that this girl and her lawyers are also  doing it to other people too. I don't see that they are necessarily honest and good people.
Title: Re: Jeffrey Epstein is Dead
Post by: Baby Thork on November 17, 2019, 04:39:14 PM
Also, Prince Andrew is a shitbag. He's always been a shitbag. He's a deeply unpleasant man.

Why did you go to see Mr Epstein in 2010 after he had been convicted as a sex offender?
Well, I wanted to tell him I couldn't see him any more. In person. Telling him in person, that I don't want to see him in person, is the right thing to do. Better than doing it on the phone.
But you stayed with him at his house for several days.
It was a convenient place to stay.                                          <--- I shit you not, that was his response.
Title: Re: Jeffrey Epstein is Dead
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 17, 2019, 11:25:25 PM
Prince Andrew also said that he was his business partner or something of that nature, and that he was learning a lot from Epstein. I think that much is true.

It could be that Prince Andrew is being specifically targeted because he is a son of the Queen, who controls vast resources. Once Prince Andrew outlived his usefulness in whatever business venture they had together, it was time to go for the gold.

It may have been easier or less risky for Epstein just convince Prince Andrew to take a picture with a girl who "wants a picture with him" than to reveal himself in any manner by offering her services.

If the story is true, on the other hand, and Prince Andrew did do it, I am still fairly certain that they are going all out, contacting police and newspapers and giving interviews, to make it as public as possible so that the Queen is forced to step in. It is quite possible that all of the parties involved are bad people.
Title: Re: Jeffrey Epstein is Dead
Post by: Baby Thork on November 17, 2019, 11:49:09 PM
Prince Andrew also said that he was his business partner or something of that nature, and that he was learning a lot from Epstein. I think that much is true.

It could be that Prince Andrew is being specifically targeted because he is a son of the Queen, who controls vast resources. Once Prince Andrew outlived his usefulness in whatever business venture they had together, it was time to go for the gold.

It may have been easier or less risky for Epstein just convince Prince Andrew to take a picture with a girl who "wants a picture with him" than to reveal himself in any manner by offering her services.

If the story is true, on the other hand, and Prince Andrew did do it, I am still fairly certain that they are going all out, contacting police and newspapers and giving interviews, to make it as public as possible so that the Queen is forced to step in. It is quite possible that all of the parties involved are bad people.

Well being as I am an Englishman and know more about the royals than the average merkin, let me square a few things away.

The Duke of York is the 3rd child of the Queen. He is and has always been pretty unimportant, more so once William and Harry were born. Even less so now William has 3 children. He's 8th in line to the throne now.

He wasn't a business partner of Epstein. The Duke of York doesn't really have many important businesses. His brother Charles has a huge estate to make money from called the Cornish Duchy, but the Duke of York has sod all by comparison. He's not going to be king next. Andrew is actually a business emissary. He is supposed to promote UK businesses around the world, much like an ambassador. But rather than be an ambassador to say India, he's ambassador to everywhere, promoting only business. He's also shit at it. Has always been shit at it. Adds no value whatsoever.

Andrew has a number of personality traits that make him terrible for a public relations job. The first is that he's arrogant. The second is that he is a narcissist. The third is that he's not very bright. The fourth being that he is deeply unpleasant.

He has been hated wherever he has gone. The navy couldn't wait to get rid of him.

I doubt very much anyone is targeting Andrew to get at the Queen. She's bullet proof. And she'd throw him under the bus to protect the dynasty in a heartbeat. There is very little 'gold' in showing the DoY for the arsehole that he is. Everyone already knows he is an arsehole. He's right up there with Meghan Markle for unpopularity amongst the public.
https://www.iheart.com/content/2019-11-04-meghan-markle-prince-andrew-are-most-unpopular-royals-in-new-poll/

Yeah, sorry America, we hate her.

As for forcing the Queen to step in, she's not going to. She has a mantra that Andrew would have done well to adhere to ... "never complain, never explain". She's not going to comment. She never comments. And if Andrew hadn't commented, Twitter wouldn't have been chewing his arse off yesterday.

He isn't going to be prosecuted. He could spend an afternoon shooting commuters at Trafalgar square and he's not going to prison. Its like hoping Tony Blair will be tried for war crimes. It will be deemed "not in the public interest" to pursue such and important person. But the Queen won't be getting involved. She'd let him hang before she'd intervene.
Title: Re: Jeffrey Epstein is Dead
Post by: honk on November 19, 2019, 10:14:13 PM
The linked article basically says that Meghan is popular among young people but unpopular among the old. Are you lumping yourself in with the old people when you say "We hate her"?

More seriously, though, I don't see how anyone would have any leverage to extort Andrew or the royals. The accusation has already been made; the damage is done. They can't put the genie back in the bottle.
Title: Re: Jeffrey Epstein is Dead
Post by: Baby Thork on November 19, 2019, 10:24:20 PM
The linked article basically says that Meghan is popular among young people but unpopular among the old. Are you lumping yourself in with the old people when you say "We hate her"?
Why would we care about the opinions of young people? They don't know anything.  ???


More seriously, though, I don't see how anyone would have any leverage to extort Andrew or the royals. The accusation has already been made; the damage is done. They can't put the genie back in the bottle.
Let's be clear, no one is saying he is a paedophile. Not officially anyway. But he has shown himself to be a complete idiot.

Today, pretty much every charity he is associated with, told him to do one and a university of which he is a patron is under pressure from its student union to ditch him.

Bizarrely, he told the Queen the interview went really well. He might be a pathological liar. But it still doesn't mean he touches children. Only that if he did touch children, he'd lie to you about it.
Title: Re: Jeffrey Epstein is Dead
Post by: totallackey on November 20, 2019, 12:32:57 PM
He's right up there with Meghan Markle for unpopularity amongst the public.
https://www.iheart.com/content/2019-11-04-meghan-markle-prince-andrew-are-most-unpopular-royals-in-new-poll/

Yeah, sorry America, we hate her.
I am looking for someone who actually cares about what the English love or hate...

Will let you know when I find somebody...