The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Theory => Topic started by: dirtysnowball on June 29, 2019, 09:56:45 PM

Title: Lunar eclipses...
Post by: dirtysnowball on June 29, 2019, 09:56:45 PM
Scanning through FE Wiki I found this statement under the section about lunar eclipses

Quote
The shadow object is never seen in the sky because it orbits the sun on the day side of the earth

How can you prove or demonstrate it really exists if the 'shadow object' is never seen in the sky.  Isn't it actually the case that in order to make lunar eclipses possible in FET you have to invent something that will form the shadow across the Moon that we see during a lunar eclipse.  In RE we don't have to invent anything because the shadow object is the Earth itself.
Title: Re: Lunar eclipses...
Post by: spherical on July 02, 2019, 02:38:02 PM
Just to remember, today (July 2nd 2019) the shadow object will be blocking the Sun on the southern hemisphere... question is, where over FE will be the Moon during this event?  I know this forum has members all over the world, so please, if someone sees the Moon away from the Sun, from 4 to 5pm EST, even if you are in China or Australia, even during the night time, please report here.   Also, how can I see this shadow object blocking stars and planets when it is not blocking the Sun?  How can we preview its location? I have a good telescope.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/02/world/solar-eclipse-south-america-scn-trnd/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/02/world/solar-eclipse-south-america-scn-trnd/index.html)
Title: Re: Lunar eclipses...
Post by: Pete Svarrior on July 02, 2019, 03:05:04 PM
the shadow object will be blocking the Sun on the southern hemisphere...
Why are you referring to the moon as "the shadow object"? Are you mixing up solar and lunar eclipses?
Title: Re: Lunar eclipses...
Post by: spherical on July 02, 2019, 03:53:53 PM
the shadow object will be blocking the Sun on the southern hemisphere...
Why are you referring to the moon as "the shadow object"? Are you mixing up solar and lunar eclipses?

You are correct, I am not well versed on FE yet.
Title: Re: Lunar eclipses...
Post by: dirtysnowball on July 02, 2019, 09:22:14 PM
So what then is the 'shadow object' that just happens to put in a sudden appearance in the sky every time there is a lunar eclipse but is invisible at all other times? It seems to be something that flat Earth believers have had to create in order to make lunar eclipses possible.
Title: Re: Lunar eclipses...
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on July 03, 2019, 09:45:36 AM
So what then is the 'shadow object' that just happens to put in a sudden appearance in the sky every time there is a lunar eclipse but is invisible at all other times? It seems to be something that flat Earth believers have had to create in order to make lunar eclipses possible.
It is basically an invention to explain lunar eclipses given that the mainstream science explanation - the moon moving in to earth's shadow - cannot be true in the FE model as both the sun and earth are above the earth's plane. It seems to me the only evidence for the object's existence is the fact that lunar eclipses occur. It reminds me of the scene in the Bear Patrol episode of the Simpsons where an expensive patrol is set up to prevent bears wandering in to town on the basis that a bear did that for the first time in anyone's memory. Homer confidently asserts that the patrol must be working because there are no bears, Lisa points out that it would be just as valid to claim that a rock is keeping tigers away because there are no tigers around.
It seems to be circular reason to claim that a "shadow object" must exist which one can never see and causes lunar eclipses and then when asked what evidence there is for the object existing the evidence is that eclipses occur. It's like me claiming that rainbows are caused not by light refracting and reflecting through water droplets but invisible fairies who come out sometimes when it rains and swarm in circles projecting coloured light, and then presenting the fact that rainbows occur as the evidence for the existence of the fairies.

The Wiki page says that we can't see this object because it's orbiting the sun thus on the daytime side of the disc, but stars are visible during a solar eclipse so that would be a time when the shadow object may be observable and I've not seen any evidence presented that this had happened.
Title: Re: Lunar eclipses...
Post by: dirtysnowball on July 03, 2019, 10:06:26 AM
Isn't it stated quite clearly on the FE Wiki front page that that something should only be believed if it can be demonstrated by first principles?

It is not known that the shadow object exists so by their own definition it should not be believed.
Title: Re: Lunar eclipses...
Post by: Tom Bishop on July 03, 2019, 11:59:00 AM
The shadow on the moon is evidence that there is something casting it. RE also asserts that there is an object near the sun that is casting a shadow.
Title: Re: Lunar eclipses...
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on July 03, 2019, 12:09:51 PM
The shadow on the moon is evidence that there is something casting it. RE also asserts that there is an object near the sun that is casting a shadow.
I don't regard 93 million miles as "close". During a lunar eclipse the moon is in the earth's shadow.
The bit which makes no sense is the fact that no-one has ever observed the shadow object, as I said a solar eclipse would be an opportunity to do this.
Title: Re: Lunar eclipses...
Post by: Tumeni on July 03, 2019, 02:51:34 PM
RE also asserts that there is an object near the sun that is casting a shadow.

Where is it asserted, and by whom, that there is an object (other than Earth) doing this?
Title: Re: Lunar eclipses...
Post by: Tom Bishop on July 03, 2019, 03:50:25 PM
The shadow on the moon is evidence that there is something casting it. RE also asserts that there is an object near the sun that is casting a shadow.
I don't regard 93 million miles as "close". During a lunar eclipse the moon is in the earth's shadow.
The bit which makes no sense is the fact that no-one has ever observed the shadow object, as I said a solar eclipse would be an opportunity to do this.

Some people claim to see an object near the sun during solar eclipse and sometimes at other times. They believe that it's a massive gas giant called Nibiru that is orbiting close to the sun's vicinity and usually stays hidden due to the sun's effect on the sky. There is a community around it.
Title: Re: Lunar eclipses...
Post by: ChrisTP on July 03, 2019, 03:59:05 PM
The shadow on the moon is evidence that there is something casting it. RE also asserts that there is an object near the sun that is casting a shadow.
I don't regard 93 million miles as "close". During a lunar eclipse the moon is in the earth's shadow.
The bit which makes no sense is the fact that no-one has ever observed the shadow object, as I said a solar eclipse would be an opportunity to do this.

Some people claim to see an object near the sun during solar eclipse and sometimes at other times. They believe that it's a massive gas giant called Nibiru that is orbiting close to the sun's vicinity and usually stays hidden due to the sun's effect on the sky. There is a community around it.
Some people claim to see loche ness monsters, big foot and aliens, do the people claiming to see this magical invisible yet not invisible object casting a shadow have any photographic or video evidence or a repeatable way for people to see it for themselves?
Title: Re: Lunar eclipses...
Post by: Tom Bishop on July 03, 2019, 04:14:10 PM
The shadow on the moon is evidence that there is something casting it. RE also asserts that there is an object near the sun that is casting a shadow.
I don't regard 93 million miles as "close". During a lunar eclipse the moon is in the earth's shadow.
The bit which makes no sense is the fact that no-one has ever observed the shadow object, as I said a solar eclipse would be an opportunity to do this.

Some people claim to see an object near the sun during solar eclipse and sometimes at other times. They believe that it's a massive gas giant called Nibiru that is orbiting close to the sun's vicinity and usually stays hidden due to the sun's effect on the sky. There is a community around it.
Some people claim to see loche ness monsters, big foot and aliens, do the people claiming to see this magical invisible yet not invisible object casting a shadow have any photographic or video evidence or a repeatable way for people to see it for themselves?

What makes you think that these people haven't thought to take pictures or video?
Title: Re: Lunar eclipses...
Post by: dirtysnowball on July 03, 2019, 04:19:22 PM
Where are these pictures and videos then?  Lunar eclipses seem to be an area which causes contention between RE and FE.  We say it is easily explained because the Earth simply casts a shadow on the Moon. In the FE world though that can't happen because The Earth, Sun and Moon cannot align themselves in such a way that the Earth can cast a shadow on the Moon. 

So FE have to invent something instead to account for the shadow. Something which no one seems to have seen or found any direct evidence of yet.
Title: Re: Lunar eclipses...
Post by: ChrisTP on July 03, 2019, 04:23:52 PM
The shadow on the moon is evidence that there is something casting it. RE also asserts that there is an object near the sun that is casting a shadow.
I don't regard 93 million miles as "close". During a lunar eclipse the moon is in the earth's shadow.
The bit which makes no sense is the fact that no-one has ever observed the shadow object, as I said a solar eclipse would be an opportunity to do this.

Some people claim to see an object near the sun during solar eclipse and sometimes at other times. They believe that it's a massive gas giant called Nibiru that is orbiting close to the sun's vicinity and usually stays hidden due to the sun's effect on the sky. There is a community around it.
Some people claim to see loche ness monsters, big foot and aliens, do the people claiming to see this magical invisible yet not invisible object casting a shadow have any photographic or video evidence or a repeatable way for people to see it for themselves?

What makes you think that these people haven't thought to take pictures or video?
Denial that it's not real. The same reason all those photos of loche ness monsters are as blurry as the memories from first hand accounts with the monster. People may want to believe it but will subconciously avoid truely finding evidence for it in fear of encountering the truth that it does not exist. At least that is one explanation.

What makes you think these people have thought to do actual research into this object without that subconcious bias? I find it amazing that it's so visibly ellusive yet still manages to block out the sun on a planetary scale.
Title: Re: Lunar eclipses...
Post by: dirtysnowball on July 03, 2019, 05:03:41 PM
You could file all the blurry photos and videos of bigfoot and ghosts into the same folder for the same reason as well but all that is beside the point.  It remains that FE cannot and never will be able to explain as clearly and as obviously as RE can how lunar eclipses happen without having to resort to invention.
Title: Re: Lunar eclipses...
Post by: Tumeni on July 03, 2019, 05:25:46 PM
....  usually stays hidden due to the sun's effect on the sky.

What "effect" would that be?

Why does that effect only occur outwith times of solar eclipse?
Title: Re: Lunar eclipses...
Post by: Tom Bishop on July 03, 2019, 05:30:07 PM
You should go and ask them. I am not involved in that community and wouldn't know what theories they have.
Title: Re: Lunar eclipses...
Post by: spherical on July 03, 2019, 05:42:09 PM
You could file all the blurry photos and videos of bigfoot and ghosts into the same folder for the same reason as well but all that is beside the point.  It remains that FE cannot and never will be able to explain as clearly and as obviously as RE can how lunar eclipses happen without having to resort to invention.

I think history is full of inventions to justify what we could not understand.  Human nature leads us to imagine what and how that contraption could work, so we use our imagination to fulfill the gaps of understanding.  For quite some time, that imaginative answer may works, until we reach a point of better equipment and science when then, we can test such attempt answer over strong fire of technical proof.   This works like that during many millennia, mostly around groups that need some explanation.   For lots of groups an eclipse is a miracle, some god request, a godly communication of some sort.  When we understand what was really happening, all those spiritual explanations for the eclipse disappeared, not at all, some people still see eclipses as a godly event of the universe.

Invention is our brain capacity finding epoxy for the holes in the boat.  It may not work forever, but may save your life during the next couple of days.

The problem with lunar eclipses on FE, is that this big hole in the boat is making water for more than 150 years, the epoxy didn't stick, don't hold water, nobody is fixing that.

The biggest problem of FE explanation for lunar eclipses, it only happens during night time, of course, the shadow object that "covers" the bottom of the moon don't cover the stars light right aside the moon, and don't create the fringe of chromatic dispersion any object in front a light would do.   So, it is an idea, impossible to prove, to test, to duplicate, even to mechanically predict by orbital calculations.  The FE shadow object brings more problems than solutions, like requiring to open new holes in the boat in order to plug the first one, and the glue doesn't stick.

The other problem is that the FE shadow object sometimes is not totally dark... leaves the Moon redish...

(https://assets.atlasobscura.com/article_images/44944/image.jpg)
Title: Re: Lunar eclipses...
Post by: Salviati on July 03, 2019, 06:23:35 PM
The shadow on the moon is evidence that there is something casting it. RE also asserts that there is an object near the sun that is casting a shadow.
I don't regard 93 million miles as "close". During a lunar eclipse the moon is in the earth's shadow.
The bit which makes no sense is the fact that no-one has ever observed the shadow object, as I said a solar eclipse would be an opportunity to do this.

Some people claim to see an object near the sun during solar eclipse and sometimes at other times. They believe that it's a massive gas giant called Nibiru that is orbiting close to the sun's vicinity and usually stays hidden due to the sun's effect on the sky. There is a community around it.

No need to wait for a solar eclipse to see Shadow Object / Antimoon / Nibiru / whatever. There is an optical instrument called a coronagraph that allows you to see objects near the Sun:

(http://blogs.laprensagrafica.com/scientia/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Comet_ISON_LASCO_c3_Nov28_fast_anim.gif)

Here you can see comet ISON approaching the Sun. Comets are very small objects and can go very close to the Sun, yet they are perfecly visible.

Coronagraph was invented in 1930 and is used from since. Short version of the story: no shadow object at all.
Title: Re: Lunar eclipses...
Post by: dirtysnowball on July 03, 2019, 06:42:39 PM
Going back to my original point.. the FE statement about the shadow object never being seen 'because it orbits the Sun on the day side of the Earth'..  What does that even mean given? Surely such an object would actually have to be in orbit (and geostationary orbit at that) in around the Earth and not the Sun in order to be constantly on the day side. 

If you discard the conventional and logical stance of the lunar eclipse, life quickly gets very confusing and difficult to account for.  Of course the FE side will disagree with that statement.
Title: Re: Lunar eclipses...
Post by: dirtysnowball on July 03, 2019, 10:26:45 PM
Quote
No need to wait for a solar eclipse to see Shadow Object / Antimoon / Nibiru / whatever. There is an optical instrument called coronagraph that allow to see objects near the Sun:

I guess this is one of the reasons why flat Earth believers are so discrediting towards modern science and astronomy.

As more and more satellites are launched and are showing us more and more about what is, as well as what isn't actually out there so the stack of evidence against FET is getting greater and greater. Their only defence against it is to dismiss it all as fake or some sort of conspiracy against them.  In the meantime the vast majority of scientists and engineers are looking over their shoulder at them and saying 'whatever...'
Title: Re: Lunar eclipses...
Post by: Tom Bishop on July 03, 2019, 10:38:08 PM
What makes you think that the Nibiru community aren't using coronagraphs to try and find Nibiru?

https://youtu.be/Si8dEhjKa2w (https://youtu.be/Si8dEhjKa2w)

https://youtu.be/vgg-EYhJQ00 (https://youtu.be/vgg-EYhJQ00)

https://youtu.be/llU2UJJqZy4 (https://youtu.be/llU2UJJqZy4)

Many more on YouTube
Title: Re: Lunar eclipses...
Post by: Tumeni on July 04, 2019, 09:09:14 AM
What makes you think that the Nibiru community aren't using coronagraphs to try and find Nibiru?

So you agree that they have not actually found it, then?
Title: Re: Lunar eclipses...
Post by: Salviati on July 04, 2019, 09:33:00 AM
What makes you think that the Nibiru community aren't using coronagraphs to try and find Nibiru?

https://youtu.be/Si8dEhjKa2w (https://youtu.be/Si8dEhjKa2w)

https://youtu.be/vgg-EYhJQ00 (https://youtu.be/vgg-EYhJQ00)

https://youtu.be/llU2UJJqZy4 (https://youtu.be/llU2UJJqZy4)

Many more on YouTube

Ok, I admit they use coronagraph and found what should be found: nothing remarkable.
In the first video I see a coronal mass ejection, in the second I see a still image with a red ball, why didn't they show the whole film? Perhaps because that ball is an artifact of the instrument?
The third is a case of pareidolia (nothing real is visible).
Come on man, if there was a big planet near the sun the images would be much clearer and more obvious.
Title: Re: Lunar eclipses...
Post by: Nefarious on July 04, 2019, 02:16:06 PM
It feels like this conversation got onto a tangent, because I'm not sure what Nibiru has to do with FE at all.
There is a claim that there is an object circling the sun in some version of the FE model that is causing lunar eclipses. What evidence, not including the claim itself, is there to support the existence of this object?
Title: Re: Lunar eclipses...
Post by: dirtysnowball on July 04, 2019, 08:55:13 PM
It seems to me to be a pretty straightforward case this. Lunar eclipses can only occur and do only occur when there is a full Moon. A full Moon occurs when the Earth lies directly between the Sun and the Moon. A shadow always points in the opposite direction to where the source of light is.

So IF the Earth is in orbit around the Sun AND the Moon is in orbit around the Earth at a slightly different inclination to the Earths orbital inclination around the Sun then you would only get lunar eclipses during some months and not others. Also the Earths shadow would always lie opposite the Sun in the sky (the anti-solar point). Hence every day at Sun set the Earths shadow rises. When the Sun rises the Earths shadow sets. This is an exact description of what we see in the sky. Any FE people please say if I'm wrong there.

It is common sense then to suggest that a lunar eclipse is caused when the Moon moves across the Earths (otherwise invisible) shadow.  No need whatsoever for any shadow object as you call it.
Title: Re: Lunar eclipses...
Post by: Bad Puppy on July 05, 2019, 12:41:22 AM
It seems to me to be a pretty straightforward case this. Lunar eclipses can only occur and do only occur when there is a full Moon. A full Moon occurs when the Earth lies directly between the Sun and the Moon. A shadow always points in the opposite direction to where the source of light is.

So IF the Earth is in orbit around the Sun AND the Moon is in orbit around the Earth at a slightly different inclination to the Earths orbital inclination around the Sun then you would only get lunar eclipses during some months and not others. Also the Earths shadow would always lie opposite the Sun in the sky (the anti-solar point). Hence every day at Sun set the Earths shadow rises. When the Sun rises the Earths shadow sets. This is an exact description of what we see in the sky. Any FE people please say if I'm wrong there.

It is common sense then to suggest that a lunar eclipse is caused when the Moon moves across the Earths (otherwise invisible) shadow.  No need whatsoever for any shadow object as you call it.

To expand on this, everyone who can see the moon during a lunar eclipse - regardless of their location on Earth (excluding any parts where the moon is not visible) - will see the exact same shadow on the moon.  That would not be possible with a shadow object between the earth and moon.
Title: Re: Lunar eclipses...
Post by: goldeneagle on July 05, 2019, 07:46:16 AM
What makes you think that the Nibiru community aren't using coronagraphs to try and find Nibiru?

https://youtu.be/Si8dEhjKa2w (https://youtu.be/Si8dEhjKa2w)

https://youtu.be/vgg-EYhJQ00 (https://youtu.be/vgg-EYhJQ00)

https://youtu.be/llU2UJJqZy4 (https://youtu.be/llU2UJJqZy4)

Many more on YouTube


Tom,

Please be sure to go back and refresh yourself with Pete's article on the Home Page entitled: "It's true, I saw it on the Internet".

Posting videos from YouTube tend to fall in this category and are unbecomming of the Zetetic method of learning and deducing. 

Thanks.

Title: Re: Lunar eclipses...
Post by: Bikini Polaris on July 05, 2019, 07:51:59 AM
What makes you think that the Nibiru community aren't using coronagraphs to try and find Nibiru?

https://youtu.be/Si8dEhjKa2w (https://youtu.be/Si8dEhjKa2w)

https://youtu.be/vgg-EYhJQ00 (https://youtu.be/vgg-EYhJQ00)

https://youtu.be/llU2UJJqZy4 (https://youtu.be/llU2UJJqZy4)

Many more on YouTube


Tom,

Please be sure to go back and refresh yourself with Pete's article on the Home Page entitled: "It's true, I saw it on the Internet".

Posting videos from YouTube tend to fall in this category.

Thanks.

Tom you have an incredible capability for understanding how the Moon rotates in the RE model and, at the same time, to propose youtube videos where some smoke making shapes is a hint of existence of something.
Title: Re: Lunar eclipses...
Post by: dirtysnowball on July 05, 2019, 06:00:03 PM
On the subject of YouTube videos there is an uncanny trend among some to give credit to videos that are in support of FET or discredit those which do not.

However we still haven't established how there can be something which orbits the Sun but apparently also always remains on the day side of the Earth.  How can that be possible?