The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Theory => Topic started by: spherical on June 05, 2019, 09:40:56 PM

Title: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: spherical on June 05, 2019, 09:40:56 PM
I found some old threads about Jupiter, but the discussion just bent to teachers, astronomy, etc, not concluding the discussion in a productive way.
My wish here, investigating FE Jupiter, is related to:

1.) Size
2.) Shape
3.) Altitude from FE
4.) Visible rotation
5.) Visible satellites passing in front and back
6.) How the Sun illuminate it and project its satellites shadow over its body
7.) Movement period over FE
8.) Why it changes visible size along the years
9.) Composition based on spectrometry

I wish the discussion stay focused on the subject.
(https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/181215042152-nasa-juno-01-large-169.jpg)
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: sandokhan on June 05, 2019, 10:04:59 PM
Jupiter has the same diameter as that of the Sun, Moon, Black Sun, Shadow Moon. It is discoidal in shape, as are its satellites.

If the Sun orbits at some 12 km above the surface of the Earth, then Jupiter must orbit somewhat at a higher altitude, perhaps some 25 km, if not more.

The RE cannot explain the basic features of Jupiter: its angular momentum and its IR anomalous radiation.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=55860.0
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: stack on June 05, 2019, 10:38:42 PM
Jupiter has the same diameter as that of the Sun, Moon, Black Sun, Shadow Moon. It is discoidal in shape, as are its satellites.

If the Sun orbits at some 12 km above the surface of the Earth, then Jupiter must orbit somewhat at a higher altitude, perhaps some 25 km, if not more.

The RE cannot explain the basic features of Jupiter: its angular momentum and its IR anomalous radiation.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=55860.0

12km = 39k'. I've flown commercially at 42k' and the Sun was still well above me.

If the Sun orbits at some 12 km above the surface of the Earth, I have flown in a commercial flight above the Sun's orbital position? Yet the sun was still well above me? How does that work?

Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: Salviati on June 05, 2019, 10:54:14 PM
If the Sun orbits at some 12 km above the surface of the Earth, then Jupiter must orbit somewhat at a higher altitude, perhaps some 25 km, if not more.

I live exactly at the 45th parallel; in the days of the equinoxes the sun is perpendicular to the equator and at noon I see it at 45 degrees. This means that I am 12 km from the equator. But I am also halfway between the north pole and the equator, which means that I am 12 km from the north pole. So the distance north pole - equator is 24 km. Other 24 km from the equator to the outer edge lead us to the conclusion that the earth's radius is 48 km. Is the earth really so huge? I thought it was much smaller.
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on June 06, 2019, 08:30:37 AM
Jupiter has the same diameter as that of the Sun, Moon, Black Sun, Shadow Moon. It is discoidal in shape, as are its satellites.

If the Sun orbits at some 12 km above the surface of the Earth, then Jupiter must orbit somewhat at a higher altitude, perhaps some 25 km, if not more.

The RE cannot explain the basic features of Jupiter: its angular momentum and its IR anomalous radiation.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=55860.0

12km = 39k'. I've flown commercially at 42k' and the Sun was still well above me.

If the Sun orbits at some 12 km above the surface of the Earth, I have flown in a commercial flight above the Sun's orbital position? Yet the sun was still well above me? How does that work?
You know, I thought you'd got your maths wrong, but you haven't. Commercial airlines do fly above 12km. How they hell do they not hit the sun?! And how come the sun is the same angular size from a plane, in day time it should be absolutely huge from a plane as you'd be pretty close to it.

Coming back to Jupter, if that is about 24km up then we're lucky no weather balloons have hit it as they go far higher than that.

Sandokhan, honestly, what kind of nonsense is this?!
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: Macarios on June 06, 2019, 10:15:41 AM
...
If the Sun orbits at some 12 km above the surface of the Earth, then Jupiter must orbit somewhat at a higher altitude, perhaps some 25 km, if not more.
...

And what if Sun orbits at 7345 km, or 9943 km, or 12541 km?

We know that Sun travels 15 degrees per hour, measured from observer from any place, any time of a day.
If one doesn't believe that, they can go wherever they want and check it out.
Every place on Earth has clear days when Sun is visible to everyone.

Distance from North Pole to Tropic of Cancer is measured to be 7389 km.
It gives the circumference of 46 426 km, which Sun travels in 24 hours on summer solstice.
It is 1934 km per hour.
967 km in 30 min.

Distance from North Pole to Equator is 10 000km.
(At the beginning Metre was defined as 10 millionth part of the distance from North Pole through Paris to Equator.)
It gives the circumference of 62 832 km, which Sun travels in 24 hours on Equinoxes.
It is 2618 km per hour.
1309 km in 30 min.

Distance from North Pole to Tropic of Capricorn is measured to be 12 611 km.
It gives the circumference of 79 237 km, which Sun travels in 24 hours on winter solstice.
It is 3302 km per hour.
1651 km in 30 min.

For Summer Solstice:
standing at Tropic of Cancer at noon you have Sun above your head, and 30 min later Sun is 7.5 degrees and 967 km to the west.
It gives Sun's altitude of 967 / tan(7.5) = 7345 km.

For Equinox:
standing at Equator at noon you have Sun above your head, and 30 min later Sun is 7.5 degrees and 1309 km to the west.
It gives Sun's altitude of 1309 / tan(7.5) = 9943 km.

For Winter Solstice:
standing at Tropic of Capricorn at noon you have Sun above your head, and 30 min later Sun is 7.5 degrees and 1651 km to the west.
It gives Sun's altitude of 1651 / tan(7.5) = 12541 km.

You probably wanted to say 12 000 km for Sun and 25 000 km for Jupiter, but obviously those numbers aren't very useful either.
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: sandokhan on June 06, 2019, 10:45:45 AM
None of you could explain the angular momentum paradox and the IR anomalous radiation of Jupiter.

You haven't done your homework on commercial/military flights. None fly above some 9 km; commercial flights only reach 6-8 km in altitude.

Schauberger-DePalma effect: jet engine levitation

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2044376#msg2044376

Real cruising altitude of commercial aircrafts/astronomical refraction:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2044464#msg2044464


Your numbers amount to nothing at all, since you believe the shape of the Sun is spherical.

Here are the real numbers.

SOLAR DISK: THE IMPOSSIBILITY OF A SPHERICALLY SHAPED SUN

"The atmospheric pressure of the sun, instead of being 27.47 times greater than the atmospheric pressure of the earth (as expected because of the gravitational pull of the large solar mass), is much smaller: the pressure there varies according to the layers of the atmosphere from one-tenth to one-thousandth of the barometric pressure on the earth; at the base of the reversing layer the pressure is 0.005 of the atmospheric pressure at sea level on the earth; in the sunspots, the pressure drops to one ten-thousandth of the pressure on the earth.

The pressure of light is sometimes referred to as to explain the low atmospheric pressure on the sun. At the surface of the sun, the pressure of light must be 2.75 milligrams per square centimeter; a cubic centimeter of one gram weight at the surface of the earth would weigh 27.47 grams at the surface of the sun."

(https://image.ibb.co/fauUJy/photosph.jpg)

Thus the attraction by the solar mass is 10,000 times greater than the repulsion of the solar light. Recourse is taken to the supposition that if the pull and the pressure are calculated for very small masses, the pressure exceeds the pull, one acting in proportion to the surface, the other in proportion to the volume. But if this is so, why is the lowest pressure of the solar atmosphere observed over the sunspots where the light pressure is least?

Because of its swift rotation, the gaseous sun should have the latitudinal axis greater than the longitudinal, but it does not have it. The sun is one million times larger than the earth, and its day is but twenty-six times longer than the terrestrial day; the swiftness of its rotation at its equator is over 125 km. per minute; at the poles, the velocity approaches zero. Yet the solar disk is not oval but round: the majority of observers even find a small excess in the longitudinal axis of the sun. The planets act in the same manner as the rotation of the sun, imposing a latitudinal pull on the luminary.

Gravitation that acts in all directions equally leaves unexplained the spherical shape of the sun. As we saw in the preceding section, the gases of the solar atmosphere are not under a strong pressure, but under a very weak one. Therefore, the computation, according to which the ellipsoidity of the sun, that is lacking, should be slight, is not correct either. Since the gases are under a very low gravitational pressure, the centrifugal force of rotation must have formed quite a flat sun.

If planets and satellites were once molten masses, as cosmological theories assume, they would not have been able to obtain a spherical form, especially those which do not rotate, as Mercury or the moon (with respect to its primary)."


The Sun exhibits a variety of phenomena that defy contemporary theoretical understanding.

Eugene N. Parker


It is not coincidence that the photosphere has the appearance, the temperature and spectrum of an electric arc; it has arc characteristics because it an electric arc, or a large number of arcs in parallel.

British physicist C. E. R. Bruce


It is likely that the problem of the dynamics of the explosions affecting the prominences will only be solved when the electrical conditions obtaining in the chromosphere and inner corona are better understood.

Italian solar astronomer Giorgio Abetti


Observations give a wealth of detail about the photosphere, chromosphere and the corona. Yet we have difficulty in matching the observations with a theory.

Solar Interior & Atmosphere, J.-C. Pecker


The modern astrophysical concept that ascribes the sun’s energy to thermonuclear reactions deep in the solar interior is contradicted by nearly every observable aspect of the sun.

Ralph E. Juergens


(https://image.ibb.co/hkvQrJ/chromo.jpg)

PRESSURE: 10-13 BAR = 0.0000000000001 BAR

The entire chromosphere will then be subjected to the full centrifugal force of rotation, as will the photosphere itself of course.

Completely unexplained by modern science.

Since the gases are under a very low gravitational pressure, the centrifugal force of rotation must have formed quite a flat sun.

NO further recourse can be made for gravity.

Gravity has already balanced out as much as was possible of the gaseous pressure, and still we are left with A VERY LOW PRESSURE.

Solar gravity has balanced out the thermal pressure.

At this point in time the sun will turn into A HUGE GAS CENTRIFUGE WITH NO OUTER CASING, running at some 1,900 m/s.

That is, the solar gases in the photosphere and cromosphere are just standing there, with no explanation by modern science whatsoever.

As if this wasn't enough, we have the huge centrifugal force factor that is exerted each and every second on the photosphere and the cromosphere.

The centrifugal force would cause the sun to collapse into a disk in no time at all.


"However, the gravity is opposed by the internal pressure of the stellar gas which normally results from heat produced by nuclear reactions. This balance between the forces of gravity and the pressure forces is called hydrostatic equilibrium, and the balance must be exact or the star will quickly respond by expanding or contracting in size. So powerful are the separate forces of gravity and pressure that should such an imbalance occur in the sun, it would be resolved within half an hour."


Then, the heliocentrists have to deal with the Nelson effect:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1645824#msg1645824 (the Nelson effect of all the other planets, pulling constantly on the sun's atmosphere, acting permanently, are added to the centrifugal force)

Recourse can be made to the Clayton model equation or even the Lane-Emden equation in order to show that the value for g (computed using the 10-13 bar value in the chromosphere) is much smaller than the centrifugal acceleration.

The Clayton model provides us with the g value: g = 0,0000507 m/s^2 which is much lower than the centrifugal acceleration figure:

P(r) = 2πgr2a2ρ2ce-x2/3M

where a = (31/2M/21/24πρc)1/3

a = 106,165,932.3

x = r/a

M = 1.989 x 1030 kg
central density = 1.62 x 105 kg/m3

G = gr2/m(r)

m(r) = M(r/R)3(4 - 3r/R); if r = R, then M = m(r)

Using P(700,000,000) = 1.0197 x 10-9 kg/m2 value, we get:


g = 0,0000507 m/s2


RATIO


ac/g = 0.0063/0.0000507 = 124.26


Accuracy of the Clayton model:

(https://image.ibb.co/nsZDdy/chro1.jpg)

(https://image.ibb.co/eHYH5d/chro2.jpg)


You are calculating distances to the Sun based on the refractive index of the atmosphere: however, the density of aether/ether increases greatly above some 9 km all the way to the first dome, and of course from the first dome to the Sun.

Here is the real deal concering this issue.

(https://image.ibb.co/ncz5dT/comle2.jpg)

Dr. Stuart D. Bale, UC Berkeley

KORONIUM, the lighter than hydrogen element (ether):

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2057945#msg2057945

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2058259#msg2058259

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2064256#msg2064256

NEWTONIUM, the lighter than hydrogen element (ether):

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2064764#msg2064764

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2065771#msg2065771
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: Pete Svarrior on June 06, 2019, 01:36:08 PM
Just a heads up: throwing the word "investigate" into your thread does not make it FEI.

See https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=10086.0 and https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=10088.0
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: TomInAustin on June 06, 2019, 02:39:39 PM

You haven't done your homework on commercial/military flights. None fly above some 9 km; commercial flights only reach 6-8 km in altitude.


Oh man, you are smoking something good today.  You would have us think that no commercial or military aircraft fly above 29,500 feet or 9km.  Have you ever flown commercial?  Mount Everest is 29,029 feet or 8.84 km.   
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: sandokhan on June 06, 2019, 03:14:09 PM
Mount Everest is 29,029 feet or 8.84 km.   

It can't be.

The height of Mt. Everest has to be lower than the official estimate since the basic triangulation method does not take into account the different refractive indexes for each layer of aether and ether.

https://web.archive.org/web/20170113180348/https://medium.com/@GatotSoedarto/the-deflection-of-light-by-refraction-not-gravity-49b9bd919aba

(https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1600/1*ql_mBFyTqTH8BG2p_jYDUw.jpeg)

Amateur rockets

Actually, the way this altitude is measured is the following: According to RRS member Bill Claybaugh (1996, alleged 50 mile altitude reached), "this altitude was estimated from a image of the entire Black Rock Desert taken near peak using known distances between geographic features".

How do other amateur rocket endeavours measure their claims?

Altitude verification for the rocket will be primarily based on signals from an onboard Trimble GPS receiver.

But in fact satellites orbit at a much lower altitude, and are powered by Tesla's cosmic ray device which is the source of energy for the Biefeld-Brown effect.

An altimeter actually includes an aneroid barometer which measures the atmospheric pressure (actually it measures the effect of the dextrorotatory ether waves). A radar altimeter uses radio signals. Both methods do not take into account the layers of aether which exist above 5 km in altitude which influence both the pressure reading and also the distance travelled by the radar waves.


You are faced with the very same problem that baffled Dr. Stuart D. Bale (UC Berkeley):

(https://image.ibb.co/ncz5dT/comle2.jpg)

If you want anyone to believe you that Mount Everest measures 8.84 km, you must explain the huge temperatures in the solar corona:


KORONIUM, the lighter than hydrogen element (ether):

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2057945#msg2057945

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2058259#msg2058259

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2064256#msg2064256

NEWTONIUM, the lighter than hydrogen element (ether):

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2064764#msg2064764

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2065771#msg2065771
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: Salviati on June 06, 2019, 03:16:52 PM
...
If the Sun orbits at some 12 km above the surface of the Earth, then Jupiter must orbit somewhat at a higher altitude, perhaps some 25 km, if not more.
...

You probably wanted to say 12 000 km for Sun and 25 000 km for Jupiter, but obviously those numbers aren't very useful either.

I assure you that sandokhan meant just 12 Km. Go to the other flat earth society site and read his posts.
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: TomInAustin on June 06, 2019, 04:10:41 PM
Mount Everest is 29,029 feet or 8.84 km.   

It can't be.

The height of Mt. Everest has to be lower than the official estimate since the basic triangulation method does not take into account the different refractive indexes for each layer of aether and ether.

Since aether and ether do not exist and can't be shown to exist the rest of your post is pure bunk.

Since GPS and aircraft have confimed the height of Everest you are on even more shaky ground.
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: sandokhan on June 06, 2019, 04:31:37 PM
But it does exist.

Multiple proofs.

GALAEV ETHER DRIFT EXPERIMENTS:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1722791#msg1722791

GLOBAL/GENERALIZED SAGNAC EFFECT FORMULA:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2117351#msg2117351

ORIGINAL MAXWELL EQUATIONS FEATURING SCALAR/LONGITUDINAL WAVES (ETHER):

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2168036#msg2168036

PROOF OF THE EXISTENCE OF SCALAR/LONGITUDINAL WAVES (papers published in 1903 and 1904 by E.T. Whittaker, one of the top mathematicians of the 20th century):

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1994059#msg1994059

KORONIUM, the lighter than hydrogen element (ether):

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2057945#msg2057945

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2058259#msg2058259

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2064256#msg2064256

NEWTONIUM, the lighter than hydrogen element (ether):

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2064764#msg2064764

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2065771#msg2065771

RUDERFER EXPERIMENT: ABSOLUTE PROOF OF THE EXISTENCE OF ETHER, the first null result in ETHER DRIFT HISTORY

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1846721#msg1846721


Since GPS and aircraft

Amateur rockets

Actually, the way this altitude is measured is the following: According to RRS member Bill Claybaugh (1996, alleged 50 mile altitude reached), "this altitude was estimated from a image of the entire Black Rock Desert taken near peak using known distances between geographic features".

How do other amateur rocket endeavours measure their claims?

Altitude verification for the rocket will be primarily based on signals from an onboard Trimble GPS receiver.

But in fact satellites orbit at a much lower altitude, and are powered by Tesla's cosmic ray device which is the source of energy for the Biefeld-Brown effect.

An altimeter actually includes an aneroid barometer which measures the atmospheric pressure (actually it measures the effect of the dextrorotatory ether waves). A radar altimeter uses radio signals. Both methods do not take into account the layers of aether which exist above 5 km in altitude which influence both the pressure reading and also the distance travelled by the radar waves.


"...the failure of the world's physicists to find such a (satisfactory) theory, after many years of intensive research," says Dirac, "leads me to think that the aetherless basis of physical theory may have reached the end of its capabilities and to see in the Aether a new hope for the future".

Paul Dirac, the Nobel Prize winner in physics in 1933
Scientific American, The Evolution of Physicists Picture of Nature, May 1963


GPS technology was invented by Dr. Friedwardt Winterberg, in 1955, at the age of 26: proposing to put atomic clocks into artificial satellites.

But Dr. Winterberg is also one of the best proponents of the ether theory of the 20th century.


http://zfn.mpdl.mpg.de/data/Reihe_A/44/ZNA-1989-44a-1145.pdf

Substratum Interpretation of the Sagnac and the Aharonov-Bohm effect

Dr. Friedwardt Winterberg

Ph.D., Physics 1955 Max Planck Institute, Goettingen, Germany (Adv: Prof. W. Heisenberg)
1968-Present Professor of physics, University of Nevada Reno
1955-1959 Group leader theoretical physics division at nuclear research reactor in Hamburg, Germany, under President Eisenhower's "Atoms for Peace" program
Elected member International Academy of Astronautics, Paris, France.
Member of American Physical Society.
Recipient of the 1979 Hermann Oberth Gold Medal (the highest award in astronautical research given for his work on nuclear rocket propulsion).
More than 260 single author papers in refereed journals, two books, with many citations, including citations by the NY Times, Scientific American, Physics Today et al., 55 publications since 1992.
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: TomInAustin on June 06, 2019, 05:09:25 PM
But it does exist.



But in fact satellites orbit at a much lower altitude, and are powered by Tesla's cosmic ray device which is the source of energy for the Biefeld-Brown effect.



Continuing to make false claims as if they are fact is not debate.   Links to your own posts are not proof.
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: spherical on June 06, 2019, 08:27:07 PM
If the Sun orbits at some 12 km above the surface of the Earth, then Jupiter must orbit somewhat at a higher altitude, perhaps some 25 km, if not more.

So, one could use that good telescope from Tom Bishop and see children playing with frisbee over Jupiter, right?  He did that over the bay, and it was 48km away.

Just going to numbers, double the distance, half the visual angular size for the same size object.  If the Jupiter has the same size of Sun, and it is only double the distance, we could see Jupiter half the size of the Sun, right Sandoknan?

Numbers again, at some point in Sun's orbit, Jupiter has an angular size of 0°00'49", while the Sun is 0°5', so the real RE angular size of the Sun is 36 times bigger than Jupiter's. RE Jupiter has 1/10 of Sun's diameter.  IF they were the same size, Jupiter should be 36 times further than the Sun.    So, for Jupiter to be actually seen 36 times smaller than the Sun (just grab a telescope and measure), and to be only twice the distance to the Sun, it must be at least 18 times smaller.   So, if the Sun has only 633 meters in diameter (your previous post), than Jupiter should be 35 meters in diameter, that would fit in my back yard... Jupiter moons would be smaller than baseballs.

Resuming, your numbers don't match at all.  Review it. 

(https://cdn.geekwire.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/180607-juno13-630x301.png)
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: spherical on June 06, 2019, 08:38:55 PM
Based on picture posted by Sandokhan, below, "The effect of astronomical refraction is to make a celestial body appear higher in the sky than it otherwise would"... this text constradicts the explanation why we see the Sun rise and set at the horizon on FE.   It is said that the Sun appears to set because atmospheric refraction, when in real it still 18° high, but the picture below says otherwise, so, should I think that when we see the Sun at the horizon, it is even much more under the horizon?  2+2 can't be 3 when necessary, or 5 if required, it is 4 no matter the angle you see it.  Please review your statement.

(https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1600/1*ql_mBFyTqTH8BG2p_jYDUw.jpeg)
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: sandokhan on June 06, 2019, 08:42:32 PM
Between Jupiter and the Sun there is a very dense region of aether/ether.

That is why your numbers are meaningless, unless you know the refractive index of those layers.

In the correct FET, the Sun does set and does rise.
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: markjo on June 06, 2019, 08:50:32 PM
But it does exist.

Multiple proofs.

GALAEV ETHER DRIFT EXPERIMENTS:
Have any of those experiments measured the index of refraction of aether?
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: spherical on June 06, 2019, 09:18:25 PM
Between Jupiter and the Sun there is a very dense region of aether/ether.

Can you please, care to post further details or evidences about this very dense region?
How do you or someone know that?  How it was measured and verified to sustain such statement?
In case this region is proved to exist, what are the physics that change the angular sizes?  refraction again?
If yes, contrary to what FE Wiki says, light from distance appears bigger, several pictures on wiki sustain it.
If there is no solid bases for such very dense region, then it is just a guessing to justify the numbers, a case when 2+2 = 3 by necessity.
Sandokhan, please, you are affirming statements carrying sure seriously certainty, be prepared to show the test results.
Just for you to know me better and not see me as a keyboard crazy teenager, I am a science teacher and astronomer, optical and radiation engineer at a Florida university.
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: sandokhan on June 06, 2019, 09:29:49 PM
Can you please, care to post further details or evidences about this very dense region?
How do you or someone know that?  How it was measured and verified to sustain such statement?


I already have.

KORONIUM, the lighter than hydrogen element (ether):

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2057945#msg2057945

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2058259#msg2058259

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2064256#msg2064256

NEWTONIUM, the lighter than hydrogen element (ether):

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2064764#msg2064764

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2065771#msg2065771

RUDERFER EXPERIMENT: ABSOLUTE PROOF OF THE EXISTENCE OF ETHER, the first null result in ETHER DRIFT HISTORY

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1846721#msg1846721

Here is the true periodic table of the elements published by Mendeleev:

(http://rusphysics.ru/picture/img/mendeleev_big.jpg)

Group 0, line 0: NEWTONIUM

Group 0, line 1: CORONIUM

In 1902, in an attempt at a chemical conception of the ether, he put forward the hypothesis that there are in existence two elements of smaller atomic weight than hydrogen, and that the lighter of these is a chemically inert, exceedingly mobile, all-penetrating and all-pervading gas, which constitutes the “aether.”

"Mendeleev devoted considerable attention to elements occurring before hydrogen in the periodic table. He gave a number of reasons for taking such a possibility seriously: first of all, the discovery of a whole new series of elements, the noble gases, in the closing years of the nineteenth century led him to think that this series could be extended upward to earlier analogues of the first two noble gases, helium and neon. Second, the apparent success of the ether theory in optical physics suggested to him that ether should be identified as a new element, which he chose to call newtonium. Third, ether would have to lack the ability for chemical combination since it was believed to permeate all substances. In addition, the notion of a completely unreactive element had become highly plausible after the discovery of the unreactive noble gases. Mendeleev predicted the existence of two elements lighter than hydrogen, calling them elements x and y, based on numerical relations between atomic weight ratios in a periodic table, which he devised in 1904.
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: spherical on June 06, 2019, 10:11:38 PM
Interesting.  You do realize, of course, Hydrogen has only one electron, right? less than that, no energy wave, no element.  You also do realize that spectroscopy identifies Hydrogen as the most abundant element in the visible universe, right?

Mendeleev assumptions predates the concepts of atomic number and electron configuration, so much improvement to be done on those tables.  Here at university we use to say that assumption is the mother or failure, and it really is.

So, are you saying that Mendeleev table is your proof of the very dense region between Sun and Jupiter ?  Is that your base material for this discussion ?
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: tellytubby on June 07, 2019, 08:33:54 AM
To follow on from what Spherical has said, all elements are identified by the number of protons in the nucleus.

The single electron in the H atom ties in with the single proton that lies in (or represents in this case) the nucleus.

So it is actually physically impossible to have  an element that is lighter than hydrogen. You can't have an atomic nucleus comprising of less than a single proton. To the best of my knowledge anyway. Spherical is that right?
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: sandokhan on June 07, 2019, 10:03:41 AM
An electron is composed of smaller subunits called PREONS:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,30499.msg1278981.html#msg1278981

For those who want to understand and study subquark ether quantum physics:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1401101#msg1401101

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1998110#msg1998110

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1998179#msg1998179
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: tellytubby on June 07, 2019, 10:11:01 AM
Yes and a proton is made up of sub particles called quarks. It is still a proton though and it is the proton or atomic number that defines the element.

A Hydrogen atom nucleus consists of just a single proton and that defines it as the lightest of all the elements.

Unless you can demonstrate how you can have an atomic nucleus made up from less than a single proton?
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: sandokhan on June 07, 2019, 11:22:57 AM
A Hydrogen atom consists of 18 subquarks.

(http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/oc/fig001.gif)

HYDROGEN ATOM: 18 SUBQUARKS - 9 LAEVOROTATORY AND 9 DEXTROROTATORY subquarks

A proton is made up of NINE laevorotatory subquarks - an electron is actually comprised of NINE dextrorotatory subquarks (called now preons).

However, modern science has mistakenly named a SINGLE dextrorotatory subquark as an electron and has ascribed THE TOTAL charge of the NINE corresponding subquarks as the total negative charge of a single electron, thus confusing the whole matter.


Ether = elements made up of NINE (baryons), SIX (mesons), THREE (quarks) and ONE subquark.

(https://www.alliancesforhumanity.com/matter/matter_files/image003.jpg)

(https://www.alliancesforhumanity.com/matter/matter_files/image004.jpg)

A subquark has some 14 billion bosons arranged in strings.

The subquark waves are transversal.

The boson strings are longitudinal.

KORONIUM is a gas at the baryon level (NINE subquarks).

NEWTONIUM is the subquark itself.

Walter Russell, one of Tesla's best friends, created a new periodic table of elements, taking into account the ELEMENTS FORMED BY THE E2, E3 AND E4 subquark configuration. That is, there are plenty of other elements before Hydrogen.

http://www.meta-synthesis.com/webbook/35_pt/russell_1.gif

http://www.meta-synthesis.com/webbook/35_pt/russell_2.gif
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: Baby Thork on June 07, 2019, 12:17:05 PM
Interesting.  You do realize, of course, Hydrogen has only one electron, right? less than that, no energy wave, no element.  You also do realize that spectroscopy identifies Hydrogen as the most abundant element in the visible universe, right?

Define H+ and H- and come back to me about having no electrons means no element.

Some reading you might enjoy ...
http://yourwatermatters.com/water-treatment-guide/hydrogen-whats-the-difference-between-h-h2-h-h-and-oh/
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: spherical on June 07, 2019, 04:40:27 PM
Of course we can discuss that Hydrogen with no electron becomes H+ and that is commonly known as simple "proton", not more hydrogen, the chemical element.  But discussing this will derail the main subject of this thread, about Jupiter.  Lets keep focus.

What is the evidence of a dense substance between Sun and Jupiter that change its visible size?
Some people may confuse the word "evidence" with something written in a paper.

I can write "John is the assassin" and deliver the paper to the judge to incriminate John, that is not considered evidence, except if I can disclose where John hide the body or the weapon with his incriminatory fingerprints.  Evidence and proof is when you can duplicate the experiment, replay several times and obtain the same results, or, when the byproduct of the experience is a non contestable situation, non prima-facie.  For example, empty beer bottles inside your car is not evidence that you are driving under influence, but enough evidence to give authority to the officer to conduct a sobriety test.  A letter delivered to the police saying that someone saw empty bottles inside your car, will not dispatch a cruiser to intercept you in the street, not enough evidence, a picture of you drinking while driving, maybe.  When you read something in a paper, old books, etc, it means nothing, except if you can duplicate that with the correct tools.  Paper hold records of said previous experiments, but not evidence at all about the truth of those experiments, and the scientific validity of it.

What scientific experiments one can do at a lab or at kitchen table and obtain results to prove this very dense substance between Sun and Jupiter?
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: WellRoundedIndividual on June 07, 2019, 05:14:02 PM

Walter Russell, one of Tesla's best friends, created a new periodic table of elements, taking into account the ELEMENTS FORMED BY THE E2, E3 AND E4 subquark configuration. That is, there are plenty of other elements before Hydrogen.

I thought you said someone else made a correct Periodic table. There is more than one correct Periodic table now?
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: tellytubby on June 07, 2019, 06:46:19 PM
Practically all, if not all of Sandokhans links that he includes point to the forum of the 'other' flat earth society. Mostly to his own posts in fact. I assume then he is counting these links as evidence for what he says.  I cannot find any information relating to what he is talking about outside of the flat earth society domain. It is almost as if he has re-invented science and particle physics in particular in his mind so that it conforms to his own flat Earth theory. Anyone can produce some diagrams descriptions with pen and ink but that doesn't in itself prove anything.

What I need is some current and independent sources that support all of this. All such references that I have looked up talk about subquarks as being hypothetical, as in their existence is so far unconfirmed. Or ideas which once were considered but which have long since been discarded in favour of the current standard model.

Quote
Jupiter has the same diameter as that of the Sun, Moon, Black Sun, Shadow Moon. It is discoidal in shape, as are its satellites.

Maybe this is true in flat Earth land but it certainly isn't in the real world. Nowhere near.  And on the subject of flights, I flew to NY and back just over a month ago and we had a real-time display of the aircrafts altitude all the way through the flight.  The maximum altitude we achieved was 41,000ft.  It was shown on all the screens on the backs of all the seats.  No mistaking that.
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: stack on June 07, 2019, 06:55:02 PM
An altimeter actually includes an aneroid barometer which measures the atmospheric pressure (actually it measures the effect of the dextrorotatory ether waves). A radar altimeter uses radio signals. Both methods do not take into account the layers of aether which exist above 5 km in altitude which influence both the pressure reading and also the distance travelled by the radar waves.

You are faced with the very same problem that baffled Dr. Stuart D. Bale (UC Berkeley):

(https://image.ibb.co/ncz5dT/comle2.jpg)

If you want anyone to believe you that Mount Everest measures 8.84 km, you must explain the huge temperatures in the solar corona:

No you don't. Dr Bale's study of solar wind produced by the Sun's corona has literally nothing to do with determining the height of Everest, or Jupiter. And there is no measurement of various 'layers of aether' above or below 5 km of altitude or wherever. You're mixing a whole bunch of random stuff together to create a bucket of slop psuedoscience.
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: sandokhan on June 07, 2019, 07:09:47 PM
Dr Bale's study of solar wind produced by the Sun's corona has literally nothing to do with determining the height of Everest, or Jupiter.

But it does.

This is KORONIUM:

(https://image.ibb.co/mcefQd/kor.jpg)

This is NEWTONIUM:

(http://wwwcdn.skyandtelescope.com/wp-content/uploads/2017-08-25_59a052d4a22b7_infrared_lores.jpg)

Both are lighter than Hydrogen elements.

Both fill the space between the two domes (where Jupiter and the Sun both orbit), along with other etheric elements. Above 5 km, the etheric elements/laevorotatory subquark waves are much denser than are to be found next to the surface of the Earth.

That is why the distances/angular sizes of the planets currently listed by the RE could not possibly be true since we are dealing with a DIFFERENT index of refraction for each such lighter than Hydrogen element.

Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: spherical on June 07, 2019, 08:00:15 PM
Sorry, Koronium and Newtonium do not make part of the only scientifically recognizable Periodic Table of Elements. Those hypothetical elements were dismissed in 1939, sorry.  Koronium and Newtonium does not exist, pictures represent just solar corona. Nothing is lighter than Hydrogen, discuss this is the same as assume caws can fly.

Nice pictures of the 2017 eclipse though.  Solar corona is always beautiful, hot plasma and magnetic fields create fantastic humongous unimaginable loops bigger than Earth.

Still waiting for your solid evidences about this heavy dense region between Sun and Jupiter.

===

Koronium , newtonium - a hypothetical chemical element proposed at the turn of the 19th and 20th century, whose presence was explained by the occurrence of one of the emission lines in the spectrum of the solar corona .

According to Fraunhofer's theory created around 1814, a given set of dark lines in the solar spectrum is associated with a specific element. During the solar eclipse on August 7, 1869, Charles Young and William Harkness discovered in the corona spectrum an emission line of low intensity in its green part. Young identified her as an iron lineNo. 1474 on the Kirchoff scale. This, however, raised doubts, as the presence of iron in the corona should be manifested by the occurrence of several hundred spectral lines. The observations of the eclipse from 1898 made it possible to determine that the wavelength of the mysterious line is 5303 Å. In order to explain it, a hypothesis appeared about the existence of an unknown element that complemented the radiation spectrum of the Sun's corona with its radiation - hence the name of the crowns [1] . The first such presumption is attributed to Dmitry Mendeleev about 1902 (the scholar later proposed a different name for the hypothetical element: newtonium ) [2] .

It was not until 1939 that Walter Grotrian and Bengt Edlén showed that the 5303 Å line is a band forbidden by the radiation of strongly ionized iron atoms (Fe 13+ )


(https://www.esa.int/var/esa/storage/images/esa_multimedia/images/2015/03/solar_corona_viewed_by_proba-2/15310257-1-eng-GB/Solar_corona_viewed_by_Proba-2.png)
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: sandokhan on June 07, 2019, 08:12:03 PM
Those hypothetical elements were dismissed in 1939, sorry.

But they were not, this is the entire crux of the matter.

To this day, modern astronomy cannot explain the necessary huge temperatures in the solar corona (as hot as the core itself):

KORONIUM, the lighter than hydrogen element (ether):

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2057945#msg2057945

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2058259#msg2058259

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2064256#msg2064256

NEWTONIUM, the lighter than hydrogen element (ether):

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2064764#msg2064764

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2065771#msg2065771

A total debunking of magnetic reconnection/Edlen's claims.

Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: Macarios on June 07, 2019, 08:35:42 PM
You haven't done your homework on commercial/military flights. None fly above some 9 km; commercial flights only reach 6-8 km in altitude.

Ok, there is Solar noon on April 11, in Abuja, Nigeria, Sun is 12 km above the ground, directly over head (subsolar point is there).
Latitude 9 degrees north.

At the same moment in Nice, 2400 km to the north there's also Solar noon.
Latitude 43.75 degrees north.

Under what angle at that moment people in Nice see the Sun above the horizon?
Maybe ArcTan(12/2400) = 0.28 degrees?

How come in reality they see it under the angle of [90 - (43.75 - 9)] = 55.25 degrees?

And if they are 20 times farther from Sun, why they don't receive 400 times less energy?

(EDIT: My apologies, 2400 / 12 is not 20, it is 200. People in Nice should receive 40 000 times less energy from Sun at that moment.)

~~~~~

And just one more detail:

SOLAR DISK: THE IMPOSSIBILITY OF A SPHERICALLY SHAPED SUN

Which way is the Sun disk oriented, and why the observer simultaneously positioned elsewhere doesn't see it as ellipse?

~~~~~

Interesting stuff, don't you think?

.
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: sandokhan on June 07, 2019, 08:41:47 PM
The shape of the Sun cannot possibly be spherical:

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=14947.msg194515#msg194515

Your numbers are based on A SPHERICAL Sun (149.6 million km distance), therefore they are worthless.

Convince yourself that the existence of the ether cannot be denied anymore, the RUDERFER experiment:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1846721#msg1846721

Therefore, your numbers, whatever they are, CANNOT BE TRUE: you must account for the index of refraction of the ether.

Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: Macarios on June 07, 2019, 08:47:40 PM
The shape of the Sun cannot possibly be spherical:

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=14947.msg194515#msg194515

Your numbers are based on A SPHERICAL Sun (149.6 million km distance), therefore they are worthless.

Convince yourself that the existence of the ether cannot be denied anymore, the RUDERFER experiment:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1846721#msg1846721

Therefore, your numbers, whatever they are, CANNOT BE TRUE: you must account for the index of refraction of the ether.

My numbers are based on the following:
- Sun 12 km above ground - based on your own claim.
- Distance from Abuja to Nice, 2400 km - based on most common Flat Earth map: Gleason's map.
- April 11 Subsolar point at Solar noon in Abuja - based on local observation regardless the shape of Earth or Sun.
- April 11 Sun elevation of 55.25 degrees in Nice at the moment of Solar noon - based on local observation regardless the shape of Earth or Sun.

If you don't believe it, the next time when subsolar point will be in Abuja is Sep 1. Call people there and in Nice to measure Sun for you.
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: sandokhan on June 07, 2019, 09:04:33 PM
Again, your numbers are based on a spherical Sun, Earth-Sun distance of 149.6 million km.

If those numbers are wrong and the shape of the Sun is different, it means something else is going on.

Here is a similar thread, the effect of ether on the North Star, seen from Alaska and from the equator:

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=9797.msg153989#msg153989

Here is the ultimate proof:

Sirius - Earth distance: less than 50 km:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1795032#msg1795032

Sirius meridian transit points data:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1939662#msg1939662

HOW or WHY does Sirius keep up so precisely with the exponentially increasing rate of precession?

How can Sirius' proper motion stay synched up so precisely with precession, when the rate of precession itself is changing?


If any local force in here the "heliocentrical" solar system drove up the rate of precession, it would NOT also drive up the proper motion of Sirius across the sky.


In the official theory of astrophysics, Sirius is 8.6 LIGHT YEARS from Earth.

THAT IS 81 TRILLION KILOMETERS.

And yet it keeps up precisely with the exponential increase of the rate of precession.


The index of refraction of the ether changes everything: all I have to do, as I have done, is to prove the existence of ether, and your numbers become useless.
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: Macarios on June 07, 2019, 09:10:01 PM
Again, your numbers are based on a spherical Sun, Earth-Sun distance of 149.6 million km.

Are we having conversation here?
Or are you talking with yourself?

I just told you what are my numbers based on.
Literally NONE is based on shape of Earth or Sun.

Read again:
Quote

- Sun 12 km above ground - based on your own claim.
- Distance from Abuja to Nice, 2400 km - based on most common Flat Earth map: Gleason's map.
- April 11 Subsolar point at Solar noon in Abuja - based on local observation regardless the shape of Earth or Sun.
- April 11 Sun elevation of 55.25 degrees in Nice at the moment of Solar noon - based on local observation regardless the shape of Earth or Sun.
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: tellytubby on June 07, 2019, 09:25:52 PM
Following on from your posted images of two solar eclipses showing the solar corona, here is a document concerning a scientific account of the composition of the solar corona.  You can do a search for yourself and you will find that neither your koronium or newtonium 'elements' are mentioned once.

https://mafiadoc.com/the-composition-of-the-solar-corona-solar-wind-and-solar-energetic-_5b838d28097c47e2778b463e.html

You state that your green image shows koronium and the red image shows newtonium. However you would equally get this appearance if you simply imaged a solar eclipse with a red filter and a green filter.  So how do they show evidence of the presence any particular element in the solar corona?

No solar astrophysicist will deny that we still have much to learn about the Sun and its temperature variations across different atmospheric layers.  The underlying reasons why the upper chromosphere is hotter that the lower chromosphere and why the corona gets hotter still is an ongoing area of research.

Ultimately though what all this has to do with Sphericals original question about FE Jupiter I haven't a clue.  Incidentally, I believe you asked about the 'unknown' reasons for internal heating of Jupiter.  This is actually of known origin and is observed in all the giant planets which support multiple moons.
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: sandokhan on June 08, 2019, 04:45:01 AM
The Gleason map is not the correct map at all. The correct FE map is the global Piri Reis map (bipolar map).

North Star, observed on a flat earth, from Alaska and from the equator:

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=9797.msg153989#msg153989

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/5Wu7MrTp3EE/maxresdefault.jpg)

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6a/71/2b/6a712b2ab51ded556c4c9749bfc21886.jpg)

Now, use those numbers/calculations and see what you get.

There is a huge distortion caused by the ether, that is why you cannot just use angles and simple trigonometry to reach a conclusion about the distance to the Sun: you need to know the index of refraction of the ether.

Here is the ultimate proof:

Sirius - Earth distance: less than 50 km:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1795032#msg1795032

Sirius meridian transit points data:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1939662#msg1939662

HOW or WHY does Sirius keep up so precisely with the exponentially increasing rate of precession?

How can Sirius' proper motion stay synched up so precisely with precession, when the rate of precession itself is changing?


If any local force in here the "heliocentrical" solar system drove up the rate of precession, it would NOT also drive up the proper motion of Sirius across the sky.


In the official theory of astrophysics, Sirius is 8.6 LIGHT YEARS from Earth.

THAT IS 81 TRILLION KILOMETERS.

And yet it keeps up precisely with the exponential increase of the rate of precession.
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: stack on June 08, 2019, 07:17:11 AM
The Gleason map is not the correct map at all. The correct FE map is the global Piri Reis map (bipolar map).

Why won't you answer Macarios' question using your preferred map/distance?

There is a huge distortion caused by the ether, that is why you cannot just use angles and simple trigonometry to reach a conclusion about the distance to the Sun: you need to know the index of refraction of the ether.

So then what is the index of refraction of the ether?

And while you're providing that, what is the diameter of the Sun (Which is the same as Jupiter according to you, if I'm not mistaken)?
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: sandokhan on June 08, 2019, 07:39:05 AM
Your pal has to explain this:

Sirius - Earth distance: less than 50 km:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1795032#msg1795032

Sirius meridian transit points data:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1939662#msg1939662

HOW or WHY does Sirius keep up so precisely with the exponentially increasing rate of precession?

How can Sirius' proper motion stay synched up so precisely with precession, when the rate of precession itself is changing?

If any local force in here the "heliocentrical" solar system drove up the rate of precession, it would NOT also drive up the proper motion of Sirius across the sky.

In the official theory of astrophysics, Sirius is 8.6 LIGHT YEARS from Earth.

THAT IS 81 TRILLION KILOMETERS.

And yet it keeps up precisely with the exponential increase of the rate of precession.


There has been virtually no research at all regarding the index of refraction of the ether/aether, since the subject is off-limits in colleges and universities. There are no government/private funds to study this topic.

What matters is to prove the existence of ether, then we know that there will be a distortion due to the different indices of refraction for each layer of ether.


The diameter of the Sun is some 1000 sacred cubits, ~636 meters, as can be readily seen in these images/videos:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1786946#msg1786946
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: stack on June 08, 2019, 08:20:19 AM
Your pal has to explain this:

Irrelevant. Use your map/distances. You have all the data you need. Why are you evading the question?

There has been virtually no research at all regarding the index of refraction of the ether/aether, since the subject is off-limits in colleges and universities. There are no government/private funds to study this topic.

What matters is to prove the existence of ether, then we know that there will be a distortion due to the different indices of refraction for each layer of ether.

If there is no data for the index of refraction of the ether/aether then you would have no idea what the altitude of the Sun, Jupiter, Everest or my plane was. That being the case you can't say with any level of honesty that you know the height/altitude of anything. You have nothing with which to calculate therefore no calculation can be made.
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: sandokhan on June 08, 2019, 08:28:00 AM
I am not evading any question: I have provided ample proofs of the existence of ether. Once the existence of ether is proven, I make the rules.

But we do:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1939818#msg1939818
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: stack on June 08, 2019, 08:50:58 AM
I am not evading any question: I have provided ample proofs of the existence of ether. Once the existence of ether is proven, I make the rules.

But we do:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1939818#msg1939818

You have no idea what the refraction index of ether is yet you cite it as something you can apply. You can't apply data to a calculation when the data doesn't exist. Sorry, that's the rule. Your distance/heights for celestial objects are based on nothing. So I'm afraid they are rendered useless.
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: sandokhan on June 08, 2019, 08:59:58 AM
They are rendered on direct observations, as shown in the images provided.

We know for sure that no aircrafts fly above 9 km, therefore the first dome must be located very close to this altitude, perhaps 10-12 km.

In the FET, the Sun orbits right above the first dome.

If you want anyone to believe you, concerning astronomical distances, you are going to have to join your pal and solve this problem urgently:

Sirius - Earth distance: less than 50 km:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1795032#msg1795032

Sirius meridian transit points data:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1939662#msg1939662

HOW or WHY does Sirius keep up so precisely with the exponentially increasing rate of precession?

How can Sirius' proper motion stay synched up so precisely with precession, when the rate of precession itself is changing?

If any local force in here the "heliocentrical" solar system drove up the rate of precession, it would NOT also drive up the proper motion of Sirius across the sky.

In the official theory of astrophysics, Sirius is 8.6 LIGHT YEARS from Earth.

THAT IS 81 TRILLION KILOMETERS.

And yet it keeps up precisely with the exponential increase of the rate of precession.
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: stack on June 08, 2019, 09:16:32 AM
They are rendered on direct observations, as shown in the images provided.

We know for sure that no aircrafts fly above 9 km, therefore the first dome must be located very close to this altitude, perhaps 10-12 km.

Yes, direct observation = I have personally flown over the first dome then. Somehow we must have gone through the dome.

In the FET, the Sun orbits right above the first dome.

Yes, direct observation = I have personally flown above the Sun through and over the first dome. I don't recall seeing the dome though.

If you want anyone to believe you, concerning astronomical distances, you are going to have to join your pal and solve this problem urgently:

Sirius - Earth distance: less than 50 km:

No I don't. As proven by the fact that you have no idea what the refraction index of ether is yet you cite it as something you can apply. You can't apply data to a calculation when the data doesn't exist. That would mean case closed on your incorrect height non-calculations.
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: sandokhan on June 08, 2019, 09:21:53 AM
Your observations are as useful as are your failed and amateurish beliefs in a spherical Sun.

No, I don't.

But you do.

Unless you explain to your readers why Sirius' proper motion keeps up with the accelerating rate of precession of the Earth, nobody is going to believe you concerning anything you say on these matters.

Sirius - Earth distance: less than 50 km:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1795032#msg1795032

Sirius meridian transit points data:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1939662#msg1939662

HOW or WHY does Sirius keep up so precisely with the exponentially increasing rate of precession?

How can Sirius' proper motion stay synched up so precisely with precession, when the rate of precession itself is changing?

If any local force in here the "heliocentrical" solar system drove up the rate of precession, it would NOT also drive up the proper motion of Sirius across the sky.

In the official theory of astrophysics, Sirius is 8.6 LIGHT YEARS from Earth.

THAT IS 81 TRILLION KILOMETERS.

And yet it keeps up precisely with the exponential increase of the rate of precession.
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: stack on June 08, 2019, 09:36:51 AM
Your observations are as useful as are your failed and amateurish beliefs in a spherical Sun.

No, I don't.

But you do.

Unless you explain to your readers why Sirius' proper motion keeps up with the accelerating rate of precession of the Earth, nobody is going to believe you concerning anything you say on these matters.

Sirius - Earth distance: less than 50 km:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1795032#msg1795032

Sirius meridian transit points data:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1939662#msg1939662

HOW or WHY does Sirius keep up so precisely with the exponentially increasing rate of precession?

How can Sirius' proper motion stay synched up so precisely with precession, when the rate of precession itself is changing?

If any local force in here the "heliocentrical" solar system drove up the rate of precession, it would NOT also drive up the proper motion of Sirius across the sky.

In the official theory of astrophysics, Sirius is 8.6 LIGHT YEARS from Earth.

THAT IS 81 TRILLION KILOMETERS.

And yet it keeps up precisely with the exponential increase of the rate of precession.

Again, no I don't. Sirius has nothing to do with the distance to the Sun or Jupiter which is what we're talking about. And the distances you've arrived at are based upon data from a refraction index of the ether and come to find out that data doesn't exist. There's no such thing. So you are literally just making up the distance to the Sun and Jupiter based from an index that doesn't exist with data that does not exist. So let's try and get the Sun and a planet right before you go spinning off on celestial bodies that are even further away. Baby steps.
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: sandokhan on June 08, 2019, 09:42:06 AM
Again, no I don't. Sirius has nothing to do with the distance to the Sun or Jupiter which is what we're talking about. And the distances you've arrived at are based upon data from a refraction index of the ether and come to find out that data doesn't exist.

But you do: the fact that you CANNOT speaks volumes.

In the FET, Sirius orbits very close to Jupiter and all of the other stars, between the two domes.

The distances are arrived at based on direct observations and the fact that aircrafts cannot and do not fly above 9 km.

EXPLAIN TO YOUR READERS WHY SIRIUS' PROPER MOTION KEEPS UP PRECISELY WITH THE EARTH'S ACCELERATING RATE OF PRECESSION.

There must be a COMMON FIELD of energy connecting the Sun and Sirius for this unbelieavable synchronization. The same field of energy which consists of Koronium and Newtonium and other etheric elements.

Unless you explain to your readers this remarkable paradox, you are done here.
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: spherical on June 08, 2019, 03:24:16 PM
Sandokhan, may be you could teach us how to create your "ether" in a laboratory, and how can we measure the refraction on it.
Please refrain to post a bunch of links from theflatearthsociety.org because I open none, it doesn't make any sense.
Explain in your own words how to conduct such lab experiment, in a clear, concise and practical way, avoid to be verbose about what makes no sense, please.

We are trying here to conduct an investigation about Jupiter, size, satellites, distances, orbital numbers, etc.
You mislead the conversation very easy to other factors, now Sirius, as if it would explain the shadow of Jupiter moons.
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: sandokhan on June 08, 2019, 03:52:17 PM
The ether is latitude dependent.

http://www.orgonelab.org/miller.htm

"The measurements were latitude-dependent as well."

http://www.orgonelab.org/EtherDrift/Galaev.pdf

On page 218, a formula for the latitude dependent ether drift.

The CORIOLIS EFFECT formula used by Michelson and Gale is also latitude dependent (ether drift formula).

The existence of the ether shows that there are latitude dependent indexes of refraction.

This changes everything.

Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: tellytubby on June 08, 2019, 04:07:05 PM
Is this the 'Ether you are talking about?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ether

Also just so that I am clear in my understanding, could you (Sandokhan) please explain precisely what you mean by 'proper motion'

Quote
EXPLAIN TO YOUR READERS WHY SIRIUS' PROPER MOTION KEEPS UP PRECISELY WITH THE EARTH'S ACCELERATING RATE OF PRECESSION.

I know what I understand by proper motion but I want to know what your understanding is as well so I can be sure we are on the same frequency as it were.  I appreciate that this has nothing whatsoever to do with Jupiter but I'm sure we will get back to that eventually once we have cleared up some misunderstandings that seem to be floating around at the moment. Floating around in the 'Aether' no doubt!
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: Macarios on June 08, 2019, 08:58:40 PM
Well, that map also makes the distance between Abuja and Nice to be 2400 km.
I don't see how it makes any difference in the simple trigonometry. :)

BTW, according to surviving fragment of the original Piri Reis you can see that distances between South America and Africa confirm Globe measures.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Piri_reis_world_map_01.jpg/800px-Piri_reis_world_map_01.jpg)
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: spherical on June 14, 2019, 04:40:43 PM
I wish we could continue investigating about Jupiter and its moons.
Anyone has any suggestion about the Jupiter Moons movement observable by telescope?

They appear as moving to one direction in front of Jupiter, even casting a shadow over Jupiter surface, then moving to another direction and disappearing as if behind Jupiter, appearing at the other side of Jupiter and repeating the cycle. 

The speed/time they cross in front of Jupiter diameter is the same they disappear behind it.  Also, the time they take from when reappearing from behind, until they go exactly at the edge in front of Jupiter (time of being away), suggests a 3D motion curvature.  Also, the time each one takes to complete a full turn, or cycle, fits perfectly to an orbital cycle calculation based on the diameter of such movement. Also, the "away" distance and time from Jupiter is exactly the same on both sides.

Is there any way we could discuss it and try to fit this thing into FE point of view?

(https://maas.museum/app/uploads/sites/6/2015/02/Jupiter-Moons.NL_.Stellarium.jpg)
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: TomInAustin on August 13, 2019, 05:44:01 PM

You haven't done your homework on commercial/military flights. None fly above some 9 km; commercial flights only reach 6-8 km in altitude.



How did I miss this?  Oh right, I don't look at your links normally, but this gem, as proof of how high airliners fly from your link...

"real cruising altitude of aircrafts is around 7,500 ft; on board measurement using an altimeter"

An altimeter used in a pressurized aircraft to see how high it's flying.  Now that is funny.

Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: Zonk on August 14, 2019, 04:37:26 AM
Quote
None of you could explain the angular momentum paradox and the IR anomalous radiation of Jupiter.

You haven't done your homework on commercial/military flights. None fly above some 9 km; commercial flights only reach 6-8 km in altitude.

As a former military pilot, I can assure you I have flown at 45,000 feet , which is
~ 13.5 KM.  Now, either I am part of the conspiracy, or the manufacturers of the altimeters and the air traffic controllers are, or the theory is hokum.
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: Baby Thork on August 14, 2019, 09:55:33 PM
Now, either I am part of the conspiracy, or the manufacturers of the altimeters and the air traffic controllers are, or the theory is hokum.
Or you are telling lies. There is always that option. You'd hardly be the first 'astronaut', 'fighter pilot', 'Antarctic explorer' or 'deity' to visit this site. But for every fighter pilot we have about 500 liars. I'm not inclined to believe your fantastical claims, purely on a statistical basis you understand.
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: newhorizons on August 14, 2019, 10:38:58 PM
Lies, lies and more lies... why are the FE movement so obsessed by people telling lies?..  what does Zonk or any member on here FE or not have to gain by lying about anything? That would not be constructive to any discussion.

I flew to NY and back from the UK in April and during both flights the information system on the back of the seat showed that we flew at a maximum altitude of 41,000 ft. Norwegian Airlines flights DI7015 and 7014 respectively.  I have no reason to doubt that. Nor did anyone else on the flight. Why should we?
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: TomInAustin on August 15, 2019, 03:47:00 PM
Lies, lies and more lies... why are the FE movement so obsessed by people telling lies?..  what does Zonk or any member on here FE or not have to gain by lying about anything? That would not be constructive to any discussion.

I flew to NY and back from the UK in April and during both flights the information system on the back of the seat showed that we flew at a maximum altitude of 41,000 ft. Norwegian Airlines flights DI7015 and 7014 respectively.  I have no reason to doubt that. Nor did anyone else on the flight. Why should we?

I have over 900 skydives and I know what 15,000 AGL looks like.     I assure you when I am flying commercial I can tell we are way higher than 15k feet.  Of course, I could be lying? 
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: Zonk on August 15, 2019, 04:35:09 PM
Now, either I am part of the conspiracy, or the manufacturers of the altimeters and the air traffic controllers are, or the theory is hokum.
Or you are telling lies. There is always that option. You'd hardly be the first 'astronaut', 'fighter pilot', 'Antarctic explorer' or 'deity' to visit this site. But for every fighter pilot we have about 500 liars. I'm not inclined to believe your fantastical claims, purely on a statistical basis you understand.

Then every pilot on the planet, private, commercial, military, are liars.  Not one truth teller among them.  This makes sense to you?
Title: Re: Investigating FE Jupiter
Post by: newhorizons on August 15, 2019, 07:45:30 PM
Quote
EXPLAIN TO YOUR READERS WHY SIRIUS' PROPER MOTION KEEPS UP PRECISELY WITH THE EARTH'S ACCELERATING RATE OF PRECESSION.

Looking back on this discussion, Sandokhan never did explain what his understanding of proper motion is. So... if you are still out there somewhere (in the aether) then what is proper motion exactly in the context of stars?