# The Flat Earth Society

## Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Investigations => Topic started by: ICanScienceThat on June 05, 2019, 06:53:01 PM

Title: GPS and the Orbital Coriolis Effect
Post by: ICanScienceThat on June 05, 2019, 06:53:01 PM
So why should these observations provide evidence to SBR about the Earth being flat? Because they can be equally accounted for using RET as described above as well.

Correct.

However, now that you have mentioned the sun's declination, you are going to have to explain this.

This is the orbital CORIOLIS EFFECT formula:

dto = 4AvosinΦcosδ/Rc2 = 4AΩosinΦcosδ/c2

R = 150,000,000 km and A = Lh

Cosδ is the sun's declination factor; however, on the day of the spring or autumn equinox, cosδ = 1.

Please explain to your readers why the orbital CORIOLIS EFFECT is not being registered by the GPS satellites.

This is the question that none of the physicists in the world can answer without resorting to MLET (modified Lorentz ether theory).

Light beams in an interferometer in rotation will be subjected to the Coriolis effect (a deflection of the beams) and to the Sagnac effect (variable velocity).

Rotation: either the Earth rotates around its own axis, or the ether drift rotates above the surface of the Earth.

There are two Coriolis effects: rotational and orbital.

Rotational effect: due to the Coriolis force of rotation of the Earth.

Orbital effect: due to the Coriolis force of rotation while in orbit around the Sun.

Here is how the rotational Coriolis effect is derived:

https://www.ias.ac.in/article/fulltext/pram/087/05/0071

Here is how the orbital Coriolis effect is derived:

http://www.conspiracyoflight.com/Michelson-Gale/Michelson_1904.pdf

The Coriolis effect formula involves AN AREA and the ANGULAR VELOCITY.

GPS satellites record/register ONLY the rotational Coriolis force.

In fact, GPS functions even because the orbital Coriolis force is not being registered.

https://web.archive.org/web/20170808104846/http://qem.ee.nthu.edu.tw/f1b.pdf

This is an IOP article.

The author recognizes the earth's orbital Coriolis is missing whereas the earth's rotational Coriolis is not.

He uses GPS and a link between Japan and the US to prove this.

In GPS the actual magnitude of the Sagnac correction
due to earth’s rotation depends on the positions of
satellites and receiver and a typical value is 30 m, as the
propagation time is about 0.1s and the linear speed due
to earth’s rotation is about 464 m/s at the equator. The
GPS provides an accuracy of about 10 m or better in positioning.
Thus the precision of GPS will be degraded significantly,
if the Sagnac correction due to earth’s rotation
is not taken into account. On the other hand, the orbital
motion of the earth around the sun has a linear speed of
rotation. Thus the present high-precision GPS would be
entirely impossible if the omitted correction due to orbital
motion is really necessary.

In an intercontinental microwave link between Japan and
the USA via a geostationary satellite as relay, the influence
of earth’s rotation is also demonstrated in a high-precision
time comparison between the atomic clocks at two remote
ground stations.
In this transpacific-link experiment, a synchronization
error of as large as about 0.3 µs was observed unexpectedly.

Meanwhile, as in GPS, no effects of earth’s orbital motion
are reported in these links, although they would be
easier to observe if they are in existence. Thereby, it is evident
that the wave propagation in GPS or the intercontinental
microwave link depends on the earth’s rotation, but
is entirely independent of earth’s orbital motion around
the sun or whatever. As a consequence, the propagation
mechanism in GPS or intercontinental link can be viewed
as classical in conjunction with an ECI frame, rather than
the ECEF or any other frame, being selected as the unique
propagation frame. In other words, the wave in GPS or the
intercontinental microwave link can be viewed as propagating
via a classical medium stationary in a geocentric
inertial frame.

The calculations performed for the LISA space antenna/satellite prove that the orbital Coriolis effect is 30 times greater than the rotational Coriolis effect in that case.

Faced with these facts, relativists have denied (believe it or not) that the satellites actually orbit the Sun.

"The motion of the earth's orbit is also a sagnac effect. We should see light path distance differentials caused by the orbit just like we see if for earth's rotation.

The orbital path is simply longer and nothing else.

The earth - sun orbital frame is a sagnac rotating frame.

The Sagnac correction for the earth's rotation is applied because as the light moves toward the receiver, the receiver rotates with the earth changing the distance the signal travels.

In the same light, if the unit had been at the equator at noon, then it should see the full effect of the Sagnac effect of the earth's revolution around the sun.
In other words, assume a satellite is low on the horizon in the east at the equator.

We should measure a sagnac correction for the earth's rotation on its axis and a sagnac correction of the earth's rotation/revolution around the sun.
If sagnac is true for the earth's rotation, then light travels at one speed c. the speed of light cannot be increased by circular motion and presumably not by linear motion either.

If light travels at one speed c, then as the earth moves in it's revolution loop at 30k/s, while light moves c through space, the unit at the equator at noon would move with the earth' rotation and the earth's revolution cutting the distance the signal must travel to meet the unit.
The earth is rotating at 1000 mph. This shows up in GPS as c+v and c-v as you would expect with Sagnac.

All that is fine.

When the satellite emits at c, the earth rotates the receiver at v and so a correction is needed.

This is all OK.

Now, the earth is revolving around the sun at 67000 mph, as we are told by the heliocentrists.

Let's say the unit is at the equator and the satellite is low on the horizon in the east at noon.

That means the unit is traveling at the orbital speed of the earth at 67,000 MPH.

The satellite emits at one speed c in space. While the light travels through space toward the unit at c, the unit moves with the earth at 67,000 MPH. The unit cuts the distance that the light must travel.

This is not being seen by any experiements nor GPS."

Certainly this is interesting. The Ching-Chuan Su article is arguing that they've come up with a modified version of ether that can explain what we've come to accept as relativity. I'll want to swing back to this and take a closer look at that.

As to the more relevant claims about Sagnac effect on the Earth's orbit and how it affects GPS signals... From an inertial frame attached to the Sun, the Earth is moving at some 67,000 mph which result in a measurable difference in the travel time of light going in opposite directions. However, the Earth and its satellites do not operate in the's Sun's frame of reference. They operate in the Earth's where that linear speed is zero. I gather that you do not support relativity, but this is what relativity says. You don't have to agree with it, I'm just explaining what the theory says.

To observe the Sagnac effect, we need the light to go around in opposite directions in a rotating frame of reference. The Earth's orbit around the Sun is a rotating frame of reference, and it rotates at 1.9x10-6 rpm or 0.041 degrees per hour. For the Sagnac equation, we'll want rad per sec or 1.99x10-7. That sounds tiny, but when we multiply this by the area the light makes in the loop, we could get a significant result. When you apply this to a standard ring laser gyro, the area would probably be too small to affect anything, but we're talking about using satellites as our ring, so the area should be huge.

Now if we actually had light making these loops in opposite directions, applying the Sagnac equation would be pretty trivial. The Ching-Chuan Su paper doesn't show that part, so we'd have to follow their links to see the source material for it. Sandokhan, if you'd care to follow that up a bit more and find out exactly how the author works this part out, I'd like to hear more about that. I may decide to dig into it some more on my own, but no promises there.

My initial reaction is that GPS doesn't involve loops. It involves a broadcast of light from the satellite to the receiver. Both the satellite and the receiver on Earth are in orbit together around the Sun and thus share that exact same 67,000 mph speed relative to the Sun. The satellite orbiting the Earth has a relative speed. The Earth's rotation beneath the satellite creates a relative speed. Their shared orbit around the Sun does not. This is a fairly easy situation to resolve under Special Relativity.
Title: Re: GPS and the Orbital Coriolis Effect
Post by: sandokhan on June 05, 2019, 07:11:38 PM
This is a fairly easy situation to resolve under Special Relativity.

You might want to inform the scientists who worked on the LISA space antenna.

Given the entire cost of the project, they actually had to provide definite answers regarding both the rotational and the orbital Coriolis effect (they called it the Sagnac effect).

Believe or not, they found out that the orbital Coriolis effect is 30 times greater than the rotational Coriolis effect, notwithstanding your notes on STR.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1983786#msg1983786 (four consecutive messages)

Moreover, the missing orbital Coriolis effect + the missing solar gravitational potential = the hypotheses of the Ruderfer experimet are fulfilled:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1846721#msg1846721

As for STR, here are the fake experiments which lead to its fame:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg865008#msg865008

Most definitely STR is false.

Here is the celebrated RAILGUN EXPERIMENT carried out by one of the top scientists in the world, Dr. Peter Graneau:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1993276#msg1993276
Title: Re: GPS and the Orbital Coriolis Effect
Post by: ICanScienceThat on June 05, 2019, 09:16:55 PM
This is a fairly easy situation to resolve under Special Relativity.

You might want to inform the scientists who worked on the LISA space antenna.
LISA is quite a different story. IIRC, LISA does form a ring. So it would depend on exactly how the cluster orbits. I don't even know in what way they are planning to have the cluster rotating. I would PRESUME that the folks designing this thing would have considered this. I shall endeavor to investigate that a bit.

Just so I understand you correctly, you are of the opinion that the folks who designed LISA did NOT consider the Sagnac effect?

As for the rest of your comments on "STR", do you mean Special Relativity? Where does the T come from?
Title: Re: GPS and the Orbital Coriolis Effect
Post by: Tim Alphabeaver on June 06, 2019, 12:42:21 AM
Re-posting my comment from another thread here, since it's much more relevant here.

Quote from: Tim Alphabeaver