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Other Discussion Boards => Science & Alternative Science => Topic started by: ElTrancy on January 28, 2019, 04:24:35 PM

Title: Anti-Vaxxers
Post by: ElTrancy on January 28, 2019, 04:24:35 PM
Does anybody here actually believe that vaccines don't work, and that you shouldn't vaccinate your child, or anybody? I've always been curious about why you would think that...
Title: Re: Anti-Vaxxers
Post by: Baby Thork on January 28, 2019, 08:56:05 PM
They work ... but not for very long in the greater scheme of things. And soon they won't work and there will be nothing that does.

http://www.vaxchoicevt.com/are-vaccines-creating-superbugs/

No point in keeping your powder dry when there is profit to be made today. Give everyone medicines they don't need and vampire the treasury to pay for it.
Title: Re: Anti-Vaxxers
Post by: ElTrancy on January 29, 2019, 04:09:03 AM
Wait are you seriously against Vaccines?
Title: Re: Anti-Vaxxers
Post by: Baby Thork on January 29, 2019, 11:23:29 AM
I'm against vaccinating low-risk groups unnecessarily, yes. It causes virus immunity that then harms those that would be at severe risk.

Lets take flu shots. Old people queue round the block for these every winter. Not ill people ... old people. Heaven forbid they might have a sniffle. This makes flu resistant and means if someone who may be in hospital with an immune problem needs a flu shot to save their life ... it might not be effective any more.

Couple this with the vast expense (thank you socialist NHS) of providing millions of shots to precious old people who don't want a runny nose and I think mass vaccinations for many diseases are utterly pointless and in many cases dangerous and economically predatory.
Title: Re: Anti-Vaxxers
Post by: ChrisTP on January 29, 2019, 11:52:47 AM
I'm against vaccinating low-risk groups unnecessarily, yes. It causes virus immunity that then harms those that would be at severe risk.

Lets take flu shots. Old people queue round the block for these every winter. Not ill people ... old people. Heaven forbid they might have a sniffle. This makes flu resistant and means if someone who may be in hospital with an immune problem needs a flu shot to save their life ... it might not be effective any more.

Couple this with the vast expense (thank you socialist NHS) of providing millions of shots to precious old people who don't want a runny nose and I think mass vaccinations for many diseases are utterly pointless and in many cases dangerous and economically predatory.
As someone who suffers acute asthma a lot, I can tell you now I need a flu shot. Flu can be deadly to me and I've been hospitalised several times from not just flu but also (unrelated) hayfever too. The flu shot isn't 100% effective because the virus changes constantly and so there's a chance you will catch a different strain of the virus but it sure helps.

It's worth mentioning that vaccines for viruses aren't the same as antibiotics for bacteria. flu doesn't get stronger from flu vaccines like bacteria does from antibiotics, one is a preventative measure against viruses while the other fights off and kills bacteria, giving the bacteria a chance to get stronger and more resistant. The real worry is keeping livestock together and having viruses spread between animals before hitting humans.
Title: Re: Anti-Vaxxers
Post by: Rama Set on January 29, 2019, 01:11:00 PM
Yeah, vaccines don’t attack viruses, they stimulate antibody growth in humans so that viruses cannot survive once they infect a human. So if there are antibody immune viruses then this was inevitable in a way that antibiotic superbugs are not.
Title: Re: Anti-Vaxxers
Post by: Baby Thork on January 30, 2019, 11:38:44 AM
It is almost as if neither of you clicked the source I provided showing that vaccinations do create superbugs.

http://www.vaxchoicevt.com/are-vaccines-creating-superbugs/
Title: Re: Anti-Vaxxers
Post by: Rama Set on January 30, 2019, 01:00:00 PM
It is almost as if neither of you clicked the source I provided showing that vaccinations do create superbugs.

http://www.vaxchoicevt.com/are-vaccines-creating-superbugs/

I wrote two sentences and you didn’t read them. You didn’t even have to click a link.

There is a pretty good chance this site is full of shit though. Their first source is a dead link and their second source clearly says that their data in inconclusive. Meanwhile vaccination effectively wiped out polio and measles.
Title: Re: Anti-Vaxxers
Post by: markjo on March 11, 2019, 01:21:58 PM
Lets take flu shots. Old people queue round the block for these every winter. Not ill people ... old people. Heaven forbid they might have a sniffle.

I agree.  What's the worst that could happen if someone gets the flu?
Quote from: https://www.archives.gov/exhibits/influenza-epidemic/
World War I claimed an estimated 16 million lives. The influenza epidemic that swept the world in 1918 killed an estimated 50 million people. One fifth of the world's population was attacked by this deadly virus. Within months, it had killed more people than any other illness in recorded history.

Or, on a more personal level:
Quote from: https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/03/boy-spent-47-agonizing-days-in-icu-with-tetanus-parents-still-refuse-vaccines/
At this point, doctors admitted him to the intensive care unit, where they kept him in a dark room with ear plugs to avoid stimulating him, which can exacerbate the muscle spasms. They treated him with antibiotics and gave him a shot of a tetanus vaccine (DTaP). Still, his condition worsened. His heart raced, his blood pressure went up, and his body temperature spiked to nearly 105 degrees Fahrenheit. Doctors gave him multiple intravenous drugs to control his blood pressure, pain, and muscle spasms. They also performed a tracheostomy, cutting a hole in his neck for prolonged ventilator support.

The boy stayed like this for 35 days.

Yeah, vaccines are nothing but a waste of time, money and effort.
Title: Re: Anti-Vaxxers
Post by: junker on March 22, 2019, 04:45:04 PM
Hello my fellow anti-vaxx moms I hear to say climate change doesn't exist and Australia don't exist and  if your kids die it was due to those dang government sheep than put those unhealthy chemicals in their body
 
Coming at you from the anti-vaxx trenches of ww3

Keep the shitposting in CN/AR. Warned.
Title: Re: Anti-Vaxxers
Post by: ThunderStrik on March 30, 2019, 09:21:10 PM
I really want to see if Flat Earthers think anti-vaxxers are stupid.
Title: Re: Anti-Vaxxers
Post by: Lord Dave on March 30, 2019, 09:32:33 PM
I really want to see if Flat Earthers think anti-vaxxers are stupid.

Aside from Thork: they do.
Title: Re: Anti-Vaxxers
Post by: Baby Thork on March 31, 2019, 12:30:54 PM
I really want to see if Flat Earthers think anti-vaxxers are stupid.

Aside from Thork: they do.
I'm sorry I don't see the world as black and white. That instead of "everyone will die if we don't do this" I consider annoying problems like the cost of vaccinating those with perfectly good immune systems or the rise in drug resistant strains of common diseases. It is almost as if I don't want to waste money, that I want people to have strong immune systems, to reduce allergies and that I want these drugs to work for people who actually need them. I'm a monster.  >o<

My problem is not vaccination ... it is mass over vaccination. Vaccinating everyone for everything. A government program to enrich pharma companies. Vaccinate against meningitis? Sure. Vaccinate children from measles? Erm, no.

Maybe one day Lord Dave will educate me and I'll be fully on board with making sure no old lady ever has to blow her nose again.
Title: Re: Anti-Vaxxers
Post by: ChrisTP on March 31, 2019, 02:15:12 PM
My problem is not vaccination ... it is mass over vaccination. Vaccinating everyone for everything. A government program to enrich pharma companies. Vaccinate against meningitis? Sure. Vaccinate children from measles? Erm, no.

Maybe one day Lord Dave will educate me and I'll be fully on board with making sure no old lady ever has to blow her nose again.
Could you explain how not vaccinating against measles helps reduce outbreaks resulting in mass death?

Man, I don't wish it upon anyone including yourself but when you get old and fragile enough to die from flu you'll probably realise how much of a moronic statement that was. That and how you are basically saying in a somewhat psychotic way that saving money is more important than saving peoples lives.
Title: Re: Anti-Vaxxers
Post by: Lord Dave on March 31, 2019, 02:29:45 PM
I really want to see if Flat Earthers think anti-vaxxers are stupid.

Aside from Thork: they do.
I'm sorry I don't see the world as black and white. That instead of "everyone will die if we don't do this" I consider annoying problems like the cost of vaccinating those with perfectly good immune systems or the rise in drug resistant strains of common diseases. It is almost as if I don't want to waste money, that I want people to have strong immune systems, to reduce allergies and that I want these drugs to work for people who actually need them. I'm a monster.  >o<

My problem is not vaccination ... it is mass over vaccination. Vaccinating everyone for everything. A government program to enrich pharma companies. Vaccinate against meningitis? Sure. Vaccinate children from measles? Erm, no.

Maybe one day Lord Dave will educate me and I'll be fully on board with making sure no old lady ever has to blow her nose again.

I like how you turned a factual statement into an insult.  I made no comment about if its a good point of view or not, just that you, a flat earther, do not think anti-vaxxers are stupid.
Title: Re: Anti-Vaxxers
Post by: ElTrancy on April 03, 2019, 12:58:05 PM
Vaccines aren't actually that profitable...because the fact they are required to be at a cost that nearly everyone can get them, pediatricians and doctors often loose money on vaccination administration. And it wasn't too long ago the vaccine industry was just barely scarping by with little to no profits. There also was a point in time, where a lot of drug companies stopped making the drug. You usually (unlike the Flu vaccine) only pay for it once in your life...and honestly, I'd pay over a thousand dollars per vaccine (way more than they cost, they cost about $136) just to keep my child from dying of polio or tetanus, or something worse. The Flu vaccine while it doesn't always work, still has a chance of saving someones life. Even if it's only 40% that 40% can save peoples lives. Im sorry if you can't get over the fact that they work, and they save lives.
Title: Re: Anti-Vaxxers
Post by: markjo on April 03, 2019, 01:52:47 PM
Vaccines aren't actually that profitable...because the fact they are required to be at a cost that nearly everyone can get them, pediatricians and doctors often loose money on vaccination administration.
You're assuming that doctors charge insurance companies the same price as they would charge someone uninsured.  That is not a valid assumption.
Title: Re: Anti-Vaxxers
Post by: ElTrancy on April 03, 2019, 01:55:45 PM
The price I listed later in my post was the price of uninsured vaccines...
Title: Re: Anti-Vaxxers
Post by: ElTrancy on April 03, 2019, 01:56:51 PM
Vaccines aren't actually that profitable...because the fact they are required to be at a cost that nearly everyone can get them, pediatricians and doctors often loose money on vaccination administration.
You're assuming that doctors charge insurance companies the same price as they would charge someone uninsured.  That is not a valid assumption.

Vaccines are nearly free for people with insurance...so no, they don't make a lot of money. You can look it up, they're really not that profitable, please read my post before you respond.
Title: Re: Anti-Vaxxers
Post by: markjo on April 03, 2019, 03:34:00 PM
Vaccines aren't actually that profitable...because the fact they are required to be at a cost that nearly everyone can get them, pediatricians and doctors often loose money on vaccination administration.
You're assuming that doctors charge insurance companies the same price as they would charge someone uninsured.  That is not a valid assumption.

Vaccines are nearly free for people with insurance...so no, they don't make a lot of money. You can look it up, they're really not that profitable, please read my post before you respond.
Doctors often charge significantly more to insurance companies than to uninsured patients for the same service.
Title: Re: Anti-Vaxxers
Post by: ElTrancy on April 04, 2019, 12:47:10 PM
Vaccines aren't actually that profitable...because the fact they are required to be at a cost that nearly everyone can get them, pediatricians and doctors often loose money on vaccination administration.
You're assuming that doctors charge insurance companies the same price as they would charge someone uninsured.  That is not a valid assumption.

Vaccines are nearly free for people with insurance...so no, they don't make a lot of money. You can look it up, they're really not that profitable, please read my post before you respond.
Doctors often charge significantly more to insurance companies than to uninsured patients for the same service.

And? That's only because BEFORE there wasn't enough money to support them...You really are just contradicting yourself. The prices aren't that high for uninsured, and they're basically free for the insured. Just because the insurance company is paying more isn't the argument...I said "because the fact they are required to be at a cost nearly everyone can get them" if the insurance company pays more, it doesn't matter, the cost is still low enough that nearly anyone can get them. Check the argument before you post your reply.
Title: Re: Anti-Vaxxers
Post by: cedarpools on April 14, 2019, 02:11:12 AM
Vaccines aren't actually that profitable...because the fact they are required to be at a cost that nearly everyone can get them, pediatricians and doctors often loose money on vaccination administration.
You're assuming that doctors charge insurance companies the same price as they would charge someone uninsured.  That is not a valid assumption.

Vaccines are nearly free for people with insurance...so no, they don't make a lot of money. You can look it up, they're really not that profitable, please read my post before you respond.
Doctors often charge significantly more to insurance companies than to uninsured patients for the same service.

That's a problem with the health care system, not with vaccines.  #Bernie2020