The Flat Earth Society
Other Discussion Boards => Arts & Entertainment => Topic started by: Saddam Hussein on January 23, 2014, 07:33:23 PM
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Let's face it, we still have to have a thread for this. Anyway, I guess this is the latest update on the game:
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/elder-scrolls-online-voice-cast-is-seriously-impressive/1100-6417293/
Yes, that cast is pretty cool. Well, some of them are, anyway. I'm not sure why they bothered listing Jennifer Hale up there with the big names, as if her inclusion is somehow impressive, but whatever.
Anyway, is there anyone here who's actually planning on getting this when it comes out in a few months?
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No.
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Nope.
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Certainly not.
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Well, unlike the rest of these losers, I am. So there. :P
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Enjoy wasting money.
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Enjoy wasting money.
Most MMO subscriptions are $14.99 monthly. That is less than what I would pay for dinner and a movie. That's 30 days of entertainment vs. 1 evening out. You make no sense.
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>entertainment
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>entertainment
>subjective
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Ha ha ha.
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Let's face it, we still have to have a thread for this. Anyway, I guess this is the latest update on the game:
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/elder-scrolls-online-voice-cast-is-seriously-impressive/1100-6417293/
Yes, that cast is pretty cool. Well, some of them are, anyway. I'm not sure why they bothered listing Jennifer Hale up there with the big names, as if her inclusion is somehow impressive, but whatever.
Anyway, is there anyone here who's actually planning on getting this when it comes out in a few months?
Nah, I don't like MMOs.
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Let's face it, we still have to have a thread for this. Anyway, I guess this is the latest update on the game:
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/elder-scrolls-online-voice-cast-is-seriously-impressive/1100-6417293/
Yes, that cast is pretty cool. Well, some of them are, anyway. I'm not sure why they bothered listing Jennifer Hale up there with the big names, as if her inclusion is somehow impressive, but whatever.
Anyway, is there anyone here who's actually planning on getting this when it comes out in a few months?
Nah, I don't like MMOs.
The real question is whether TESO will be able to pull me away from Everquest Next. I'm thinking the winner will be EQN. But time will tell.
(I do like MMOs.)
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Let's face it, we still have to have a thread for this. Anyway, I guess this is the latest update on the game:
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/elder-scrolls-online-voice-cast-is-seriously-impressive/1100-6417293/
Yes, that cast is pretty cool. Well, some of them are, anyway. I'm not sure why they bothered listing Jennifer Hale up there with the big names, as if her inclusion is somehow impressive, but whatever.
Anyway, is there anyone here who's actually planning on getting this when it comes out in a few months?
Nah, I don't like MMOs.
The real question is whether TESO will be able to pull me away from Everquest Next. I'm thinking the winner will be EQN. But time will tell.
(I do like MMOs.)
How do you tolerate a server full of idiots?
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Let's face it, we still have to have a thread for this. Anyway, I guess this is the latest update on the game:
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/elder-scrolls-online-voice-cast-is-seriously-impressive/1100-6417293/
Yes, that cast is pretty cool. Well, some of them are, anyway. I'm not sure why they bothered listing Jennifer Hale up there with the big names, as if her inclusion is somehow impressive, but whatever.
Anyway, is there anyone here who's actually planning on getting this when it comes out in a few months?
Nah, I don't like MMOs.
The real question is whether TESO will be able to pull me away from Everquest Next. I'm thinking the winner will be EQN. But time will tell.
(I do like MMOs.)
How do you tolerate a server full of idiots?
Well, I'm in a multi-game guild that is full of awesome non-idiots, so for me it's usually just a matter of turning off Global / General chat. And also by not really doing the PVP thing.
But in the case I play a game my guild isn't in, I'm generally pretty good at finding the smart people. They're the ones who speak in complete sentences.
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I'm convinced there are no MMOs, no matter how well designed, that don't end up sucking as a result of terrible userbases. Based on my general experience of Bethesda fans, I don't think that's going to change, in fact it might even get worse.
Re: Voice cast. Who cares? Bethesda always rams star voice overs in their games and utilises them in an array of terribly underwhelming ways, usually by killing their characters 10 minutes after you meet them.
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Most MMO subscriptions are $14.99 monthly. That is less than what I would pay for dinner and a movie. That's 30 days of entertainment vs. 1 evening out. You make no sense.
The difference is, with dinner and a movie you get to fuck the guy that's been pretending to be a hawt girl for the last 3 hours.
I'm not quite convinced all these actors wanted to do this. I think its bread and butter stuff, despite video games making much more money than movies. I saw Clease looking at his watch.
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I'm convinced there are no MMOs, no matter how well designed, that don't end up sucking as a result of terrible userbases. Based on my general experience of Bethesda fans, I don't think that's going to change, in fact it might even get worse.
Re: Voice cast. Who cares? Bethesda always rams star voice overs in their games and utilises them in an array of terribly underwhelming ways, usually by killing their characters 10 minutes after you meet them.
There are MMOs with wonderful communities. Most of them are older - the original Everquest for instance (dating myself, perhaps?) has a great community. There are always trolls... but well. If you're bothered by those, what are you doing on TFES.org?
I'm with you on voice cast, it's interesting but who cares, really... and I'm actually with you on what the playerbase of TESO is going to be like, at least at launch. If my "main" guild doesn't go in with a decent presence I'll probably pass, because I know it'll be full of jerks.
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Enjoy wasting money.
Most MMO subscriptions are $14.99 monthly. That is less than what I would pay for dinner and a movie. That's 30 days of entertainment vs. 1 evening out. You make no sense.
No, most MMO subscriptions are actually free, or else just require a one-time payment (which ESO will still have on top of the subscription fee, I should point out). It's an outdated business model, and ESO is not following the trend, but instead boldly going where other MMOs have failed miserably before.
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Enjoy wasting money.
Most MMO subscriptions are $14.99 monthly. That is less than what I would pay for dinner and a movie. That's 30 days of entertainment vs. 1 evening out. You make no sense.
No, most MMO subscriptions are actually free, or else just require a one-time payment (which ESO will still have on top of the subscription fee, I should point out). It's an outdated business model, and ESO is not following the trend, but instead boldly going where other MMOs have failed miserably before.
I'll build on Crudblud's point. It is entirely possible to find great communities inside MMOs themselves.
However, in MMO forums, and in threads where MMOs are being discussed, you will find predominantly grumpy, joyless specimens of humanity who believe that their experience as a gamer gives them the right to criticize every development decision and pronounce grandiose generalities about a subject which is far more complicated than they know. This is becoming one of those threads. I like MMOs, I do not like debating their merits with people who don't.
Perhaps I also enjoy them because I know when to exit conversations before they get frustrating. :) Bye gang.
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We should make a FES guild in an MMO.
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I can honestly say that my experience with the GW2 community has been significantly better than my experience with the WoW community (which eventually became one of the reasons I stopped enjoying the game).
I think it's just in the numbers. At least, I remember WoW having a much better community server side back in the days. Once things got popular though..
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We should make a FES guild in an MMO.
EJ for gm!
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I might give TESO a whirl. I used to love WoW back in the day (vanilla and BC), and I figure it could be pretty good. The only problem is most the people I game with (real life friends) tend to prefer doing stupid shit instead of getting to end-game (read:good) content.
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MMOs are just like regular games, except they're stuffed with endless hours of grinding before you actually get to play them. Eve Online tried to solve that problem but its still sort of wonky.
I'm waiting on Star Citizen to see how an MMO handles when it has literally no RPG elements like skills or abilities to deal with.
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I'm not quite convinced all these actors wanted to do this. I think its bread and butter stuff, despite video games making much more money than movies. I saw Clease looking at his watch.
That's the feeling I got as well, which sucks because I love John Cleese. :[ But yeah, it looked like he was just doing it to get paid, the watch glance kind of gave that away. Plus he just all-around didn't seem very enthusiastic, and his line-readings were kinda boring and uninspired.
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What's with the patch on his head?
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>2014
>not having a patch on your head
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I might look at ESO after they go f2p Ina year or so. But that's it.
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Yes. Might.
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I don't get why checking the time means he doesn't care about what he's doing. Maybe he's got other stuff going on in his life, maybe he has a call he needs to make, or is getting hungry.
It's possible he's doing the bored sassy routine of looking at his watch, but I never much understood people buying into that cliche.
Example: when I was a tour guide I had to be aware of the time as I moved my little herd around the house since tours were supposed to run an hour long and sometimes you'd have the problem of another group running into you. But someone complained that I was looking at my watch in an email. That's how upset they were. My boss told me I had to then secretly steal glances when I turned away from my group so as not to appear disinterested. So that cliche assumption seems so baseless and empty to me.
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I'm not quite convinced all these actors wanted to do this. I think its bread and butter stuff, despite video games making much more money than movies. I saw Clease looking at his watch.
That's the feeling I got as well, which sucks because I love John Cleese. :[ But yeah, it looked like he was just doing it to get paid, the watch glance kind of gave that away. Plus he just all-around didn't seem very enthusiastic, and his line-readings were kinda boring and uninspired.
Also, the guy from Spiderman thought his character was such a rich and interesting guy with so much inner turmoil, yet couldn't remember the line that captured the essence of this character. It's like a bad answer to the interview question "Tell me why you want to work for this company?".
I understand their apathy. It's the same reason why movie actors go back to stage acting:
In a theatre you have an actual audience and other actors who are acting right now, and you can't screw it up. Oh my! Then the after show party! Woo!
In movies there's you in a green suit with some white bobbles on it, and maybe a stand-in reading lines back to you from behind the camera, but that's OK cos at least you get to walk around and meet a few of the cast for the big scenes. Scenes might have to be recorded many times, but that's OK because the director might let you throw a few "interpretations" in. The catering is probably OK too.
In video game voice over, there's you in a dark recording studio, a script and a recording technician in a room next door. You will spend whole days reading variations of "Hmm, this door is locked from the other side". Bring your own sandwiches.
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We should make a FES guild in an MMO.
I'd actually thought about that. The MMOs I enjoy likely wouldn't fly with the crowd here, though :)
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We should make a FES guild in an MMO.
I'd actually thought about that. The MMOs I enjoy likely wouldn't fly with the crowd here, though :)
There are Furry MMOs?
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We should make a FES guild in an MMO.
I'd actually thought about that. The MMOs I enjoy likely wouldn't fly with the crowd here, though :)
There are Furry MMOs?
There are, in fact.
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Are those the MMOs you like? Cmon, your public wants to know!
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I'm not quite convinced all these actors wanted to do this. I think its bread and butter stuff, despite video games making much more money than movies. I saw Clease looking at his watch.
That's the feeling I got as well, which sucks because I love John Cleese. :[ But yeah, it looked like he was just doing it to get paid, the watch glance kind of gave that away. Plus he just all-around didn't seem very enthusiastic, and his line-readings were kinda boring and uninspired.
Also, the guy from Spiderman thought his character was such a rich and interesting guy with so much inner turmoil, yet couldn't remember the line that captured the essence of this character. It's like a bad answer to the interview question "Tell me why you want to work for this company?".
I understand their apathy. It's the same reason why movie actors go back to stage acting:
In a theatre you have an actual audience and other actors who are acting right now, and you can't screw it up. Oh my! Then the after show party! Woo!
In movies there's you in a green suit with some white bobbles on it, and maybe a stand-in reading lines back to you from behind the camera, but that's OK cos at least you get to walk around and meet a few of the cast for the big scenes. Scenes might have to be recorded many times, but that's OK because the director might let you throw a few "interpretations" in. The catering is probably OK too.
In video game voice over, there's you in a dark recording studio, a script and a recording technician in a room next door. You will spend whole days reading variations of "Hmm, this door is locked from the other side". Bring your own sandwiches.
John Cleese has also done quite a few videogame voice overs. If he didn't like it then why would he do it? He can't be hurting for money.
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Are those the MMOs you like? Cmon, your public wants to know!
I'll just let your imagination fill in those blanks. It's probably less boring :)
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John Cleese has also done quite a few videogame voice overs. If he didn't like it then why would he do it? He can't be hurting for money.
I think he is. I think his exwifes ran away with the money.
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I'm not quite convinced all these actors wanted to do this. I think its bread and butter stuff, despite video games making much more money than movies. I saw Clease looking at his watch.
That's the feeling I got as well, which sucks because I love John Cleese. :[ But yeah, it looked like he was just doing it to get paid, the watch glance kind of gave that away. Plus he just all-around didn't seem very enthusiastic, and his line-readings were kinda boring and uninspired.
That's just John Cleese all round those these days, If it wasn't for his divorce he'd still be retired.
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I don't get why checking the time means he doesn't care about what he's doing. Maybe he's got other stuff going on in his life, maybe he has a call he needs to make, or is getting hungry.
It's possible he's doing the bored sassy routine of looking at his watch, but I never much understood people buying into that cliche.
Example: when I was a tour guide I had to be aware of the time as I moved my little herd around the house since tours were supposed to run an hour long and sometimes you'd have the problem of another group running into you. But someone complained that I was looking at my watch in an email. That's how upset they were. My boss told me I had to then secretly steal glances when I turned away from my group so as not to appear disinterested. So that cliche assumption seems so baseless and empty to me.
That's true but, like I said, that's not the only reason I think he seems bored. Just look at his overall demeanor and his readings. John Cleese is not that uninspired of an actor. When John Cleese acts it's delightful, but those readings sounds very by-the-numbers and a little unprofessional. They're, sadly, exactly what I would expect to hear in an Elder Scrolls game. So unless they told him to sound bored...
John Cleese has also done quite a few videogame voice overs. If he didn't like it then why would he do it? He can't be hurting for money.
Surprisingly, he is. I watch him in interviews and stuff (was just earlier today) and, like fappenhosen said, his ex-wife took literally all his money. He had to go on tour again just to get some money to live off of. I hadn't thought about it before, but I guess I wouldn't be surprised if he was just doing this to earn more. Or maybe he did want to do it but ended up bored still, I dunno. Maybe they picked terrible points to film, but he just seems like he doesn't really want to be there and isn't enjoying himself.
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John Cleese has also done quite a few videogame voice overs. If he didn't like it then why would he do it? He can't be hurting for money.
Surprisingly, he is. I watch him in interviews and stuff (was just earlier today) and, like fappenhosen said, his ex-wife took literally all his money. He had to go on tour again just to get some money to live off of. I hadn't thought about it before, but I guess I wouldn't be surprised if he was just doing this to earn more. Or maybe he did want to do it but ended up bored still, I dunno. Maybe they picked terrible points to film, but he just seems like he doesn't really want to be there and isn't enjoying himself.
I had no idea. Well that sucks. You'd think with royalties and all that he'd still have enough.
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John Cleese has also done quite a few videogame voice overs. If he didn't like it then why would he do it? He can't be hurting for money.
Surprisingly, he is. I watch him in interviews and stuff (was just earlier today) and, like fappenhosen said, his ex-wife took literally all his money. He had to go on tour again just to get some money to live off of. I hadn't thought about it before, but I guess I wouldn't be surprised if he was just doing this to earn more. Or maybe he did want to do it but ended up bored still, I dunno. Maybe they picked terrible points to film, but he just seems like he doesn't really want to be there and isn't enjoying himself.
I had no idea. Well that sucks. You'd think with royalties and all that he'd still have enough.
From what I remember she also got Half his future earnings and the figure for future earnings was ridiculously high.
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I don't get why checking the time means he doesn't care about what he's doing.
Well the story is that these character's they're all narrating are rich, deep, engrossing characters. So if he's checking his watch then he can't be that engrossed. It could be bad timing and I can't believe an editor didn't spot that.
Imagine if he did that on stage. Oh the reviews the next day!
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From what I remember she also got Half his future earnings and the figure for future earnings was ridiculously high.
What a terrible woman.
I don't get why checking the time means he doesn't care about what he's doing.
Well the story is that these character's they're all narrating are rich, deep, engrossing characters. So if he's checking his watch then he can't be that engrossed. It could be bad timing and I can't believe an editor didn't spot that.
After so many takes he could still be getting hungry regardless of how engrossing the characters are. From what I remember from Jade Empire and Fable, his voice work has always been entertaining and what you'd expect from John Cleese. I think it was just poor timing and a bad editor.
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Some people just like to keep track of time more than others. I certainly do. Even if I'm having a lot of fun, I'll still check the time occasionally. As for his demeanor and enthusiasm, well, he's not exactly giving it a hundred percent, but I'd say he's still doing a far better job than most of the generic voice actors in an Elder Scrolls game.
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^ I guess my standards are just set high because he's John Cleese. I expect to be thoroughly amused by things that he does and possibly laughing my ass off, so I guess I'm just a little disappointed to see that it's not likely to be much more than a nice little cameo to hear his voice.
But yeah, sloppy editing could have made him look more bored than he is.
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Having high standards for John Cleese any time in the past 25 years is just asking to be disappointed, really.
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Well I mean by general human standards, not you/balkno standards. :P
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Oh come on, I'm not that bad.
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Anyway, the game itself doesn't look too bad to me. Nowhere near as terrible as people were fearing when it was first announced, at least. They're sticking to the lore lore lore fairly well, too, and of course that's the most important part.
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World of Warcraft stuck to lore too and we all see just how well that worked out. Better start the ESO countdown to pandas.
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World of Warcraft stuck to lore too and we all see just how well that worked out. Better start the ESO countdown to pandas.
Best MMO of all time?
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Best MMO of all time?
That really boils down to your opinion.
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Best MMO of all time?
That really boils down to your opinion.
Well, of course it's debatable, everything is. I can't find any great sources, but WoW is the most subscribed by a huge margin. It had what, 12 million people at its peak? Ridiculous. I don't think there's a company in the world that would be mad if they had a gamely as ridiculously successful as WoW. And I say this as a person that quit the game after BC for being shit, but its legacy is undeniable.
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World of Warcraft stuck to lore too and we all see just how well that worked out. Better start the ESO countdown to pandas.
WoW didn't stick to lore at all.
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lore lore lore
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World of Warcraft stuck to lore too and we all see just how well that worked out. Better start the ESO countdown to pandas.
WoW didn't stick to lore at all.
Go on.
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World of Warcraft stuck to lore too and we all see just how well that worked out. Better start the ESO countdown to pandas.
Best MMO of all time?
"Most successful" is an argument one could make, in terms of subscriptions. "Best" is subjective. I didn't enjoy it.
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World of Warcraft stuck to lore too and we all see just how well that worked out. Better start the ESO countdown to pandas.
WoW didn't stick to lore at all.
Go on.
Vanilla didn't deviate too much, but TBC required a fairly large retcon before it even began and threw out the back story of every major character so the players had something to hit. I'd say WotLK was more lazy with lore than contradictory. Pandas were an ass pull, but I thought the lore they created for Pandaria was interesting.
Blizzard never showed much regard for the story, which is fine because it was largely a rip off anyway.
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Of what?
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Of what?
Warhammer, greek mythology, lovecraftian mythology, tolkien etc.
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So just like every other modern fantasy franchise.
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So just like every other modern fantasy franchise.
Kind of. The writers would call it a homage, but I think it's closer to ripping it off. It's one thing to carry across similarities, but the entire origin of Azeroth is more or less lifted directly from Lovecraft and Greek mythology with some names changed. Dwarves are exactly the same as the dwarves from tolkien..
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So just like every other modern fantasy franchise.
No. There are some franchises that take little to nothing from those influences; "The Chronicles of Amber" and "The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" for example.
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Of what?
LoTR.
90% of modern high fantasy IS though if you want to throw words like "rip off" around.
T
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World of Warcraft stuck to lore too and we all see just how well that worked out. Better start the ESO countdown to pandas.
Best MMO of all time?
"Most successful" is an argument one could make, in terms of subscriptions. "Best" is subjective. I didn't enjoy it.
That's a better word choice. However, if you were to make a say, top five list of greatest MMO's of all time, I'd be skeptical of putting any game at number one besides WoW.
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World of Warcraft stuck to lore too and we all see just how well that worked out. Better start the ESO countdown to pandas.
Best MMO of all time?
"Most successful" is an argument one could make, in terms of subscriptions. "Best" is subjective. I didn't enjoy it.
That's a better word choice. However, if you were to make a say, top five list of greatest MMO's of all time, I'd be skeptical of putting any game at number one besides WoW.
(Essex)MUD?
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(Essex)MUD?
I don't know what you're trying to communicate with this.
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So just like every other modern fantasy franchise.
No. There are some franchises that take little to nothing from those influences; "The Chronicles of Amber" and "The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" for example.
hipster fantasy
I was reading it before hipsters were a thing sonny boy. In my day needs got their ass kicked for reading Tolkien, Anthony or Zelazny so don't you get uppity.
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So just like every other modern fantasy franchise.
No. There are some franchises that take little to nothing from those influences; "The Chronicles of Amber" and "The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" for example.
hipster fantasy
I was reading it before hipsters were a thing sonny boy. In my day needs got their ass kicked for reading Tolkien, Anthony or Zelazny so don't you get uppity.
wat did u say about tolkien m8
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So just like every other modern fantasy franchise.
No. There are some franchises that take little to nothing from those influences; "The Chronicles of Amber" and "The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" for example.
hipster fantasy
I was reading it before hipsters were a thing sonny boy. In my day needs got their ass kicked for reading Tolkien, Anthony or Zelazny so don't you get uppity.
Represent that Zelazny.
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So just like every other modern fantasy franchise.
No. There are some franchises that take little to nothing from those influences; "The Chronicles of Amber" and "The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" for example.
hipster fantasy
I was reading it before hipsters were a thing sonny boy. In my day needs got their ass kicked for reading Tolkien, Anthony or Zelazny so don't you get uppity.
Represent that Zelazny.
Thats my boy. We tight.
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(Essex)MUD?
I don't know what you're trying to communicate with this.
Being the first it was, at it's time, the greatest MMO, and being the first ought to have a claim to at least the top 5.
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So Pong is in the top 5 video games of all time?
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So Pong is in the top 5 video games of all time?
Potentially, although I'd argue breakout is far superior in terms of enjoyability.
Pong never held my attention span for long, it also didn't directly inspire a genre as such, It might have a look in in the top ten greatest tennis games.
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http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/map/tamriel
lore lore lore
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Suddenly there's an island somewhere between Skyrim and Morrowind that isn't there in the third and fourth era..
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Suddenly there's an island somewhere between Skyrim and Morrowind that isn't there in the third and fourth era..
Plate techtonics and vulcanism?
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Suddenly there's an island somewhere between Skyrim and Morrowind that isn't there in the third and fourth era..
Incorrect. The island is between Vvardenfell and mainland Morrowind.
Also, it may just be that later cartographers overlooked that island because of how tiny and insignificant it was.
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bbrrlrbbbrlllllllllllllrlrlbrbllllllllllbrrbrrbrblrblrblblbrlblrblblrlblrblrblllbrlblrlbblll
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Or it's because MMO makers don't give a shit about lore.
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(Essex)MUD?
I don't know what you're trying to communicate with this.
Being the first it was, at it's time, the greatest MMO, and being the first ought to have a claim to at least the top 5.
Eh, if you're going to use the early adopter argument I'd go with Ultima Online.
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(Essex)MUD?
I don't know what you're trying to communicate with this.
Being the first it was, at it's time, the greatest MMO, and being the first ought to have a claim to at least the top 5.
Eh, if you're going to use the early adopter argument I'd go with Ultima Online.
As a current Ultima Online subscriber, I would agree with this statement.
And yeah, I play some MUDs too.
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Or it's because MMO makers don't give a shit about lore.
If they didn't give a shit about the lore, people would have found considerably more important things to complain about by now.
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Or it's because MMO makers don't give a shit about lore.
If they didn't give a shit about the lore, people would have found considerably more important things to complain about by now.
I don't agree.
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Also, Eastmarch appears to be covering north-western mainland morrowind at this point in time (as well as parts of Winterhold, apparently unless this map is really wonkers). So in a way, the island is between Skyrim and Morrowind.
(http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131120225317/elderscrolls/images/1/1c/Eastmarch_Map.jpg)
And The Rift covers western mainland Morrowind.
(http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131120225553/elderscrolls/images/8/8f/The_Rift_Map.jpg)
Skyrim's eastern border stretches all the way to the coast.
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(Essex)MUD?
I don't know what you're trying to communicate with this.
Being the first it was, at it's time, the greatest MMO, and being the first ought to have a claim to at least the top 5.
Eh, if you're going to use the early adopter argument I'd go with Ultima Online.
It's up there, probably one of the most long lived.
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I played this a few weeks ago. It was pretty good, it's Skyrim online.
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I played this a few weeks ago. It was pretty good, it's Skyrim online.
I played some of a trial run and it wasn't too bad. Still, I'm just not a fan of MMOs.
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Also, Eastmarch appears to be covering north-western mainland morrowind at this point in time (as well as parts of Winterhold, apparently unless this map is really wonkers). So in a way, the island is between Skyrim and Morrowind.
http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131120225317/elderscrolls/images/1/1c/Eastmarch_Map.jpg
And The Rift covers western mainland Morrowind.
http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131120225553/elderscrolls/images/8/8f/The_Rift_Map.jpg
Skyrim's eastern border stretches all the way to the coast.
They're being described as regions of the world map. They're not necessarily going to geographically correlate with the holds of Skyrim, or even the boundary between Morrowind and Skyrim.
I played this a few weeks ago. It was pretty good, it's Skyrim online.
Tell us more.
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I played this a few weeks ago. It was pretty good, it's Skyrim online.
Tell us more.
There's nothing more to tell really. I got through the first bit and then decided to not go any further until the game is released. I didn't want to spoil it.
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The armor and weapon crafting was a bit of a pain. You could only craft your own race's gear and you need a race unique material, such as moonstone for Khajit. It makes sense but was frustrating to have dozens of materials for the other races right from the start and only find a small number of your own.
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I played this a few weeks ago. It was pretty good, it's Skyrim online.
Tell us more.
There's nothing more to tell really. I got through the first bit and then decided to not go any further until the game is released. I didn't want to spoil it.
Tell us what you did, where you went, etc.
I finished the beginning bit where you're trying to escape. If I say anymore it might spoil it for others.
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I finished the beginning bit where you're trying to escape.
This means nothing to those of us who haven't played the game. You might as well have said "I did that thing for that guy."
If I say anymore it might spoil it for others.
Spoil what? It was a beta. Nothing that's supposed to be a big surprise and we shouldn't hear about beforehand would be in a beta, just like it wouldn't be in a trailer. In any case, I wasn't asking for a plot summary or anything. I was just wondering who you were playing as, where you were, what your general thoughts were, stuff like that.
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I played a dragonknight and was pretty bored with it, but I tend to hate melee classes. Last beta I played a mage and enjoyed that.
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No, no, I meant what race did you play as?
You can choose any race. And you escape from a dungeon/jail.
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Khajit and Argonian. The Argonian/Nord/Dunmer starting area was a lot more fun than the Altmer/Bosmer/Khajit one.
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I just saw the wonderfully created cinematic trailer.
My first thought:
Yeah.... everyone's gonna stop fighting now that giant holes in the sky are raining down monsters of death.
Which means it's a bad trailer since that doesn't happen.
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Thanks for posting a link to said trailer, Dave. ::)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVMNQozxqos
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Meh. I had no idea what was happening and none of that will be even remotely possible within the game anyway. It was pretty though.
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Thanks for posting a link to said trailer, Dave. ::)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVMNQozxqos
I assumed that you posted the link already and I was too lazy to see it. You've been following it far more closely than I.
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19:45 Saddam Blanko is no true Morrowind fan
19:45 Saddam He has no understanding of lore lore lore
19:46 Blanko Fucking lorefags
19:46 Saddam lore lore lore
19:46 Saddam It is important
19:46 Saddam Anyway, Morrowind is inferior to Skyrim
19:47 Saddam Prove me wrong
19:47 Blanko Yes
19:47 Blanko Morrowind is less casual than Skyrim
19:47 Blanko Therefore it would be inferior to casual scum such as yourself
19:47 *** pizaaaaplanet joined #theflatearthsociety
19:47 Saddam You talk to information kiosks
19:47 *** pizaaaplanet quit (Connection closed)
19:47 Saddam And the combat is nerdy dice-rolling
19:48 Saddam I bet you hated Dark Souls because there's actual skill involved in the combat
19:49 Blanko You're implying there's actual skill involved in Skyrim
19:49 Saddam Indeed
19:49 Blanko But it's the same thing
19:49 Saddam Incorrect
19:49 Blanko You click the attack button
19:49 Saddam In Skyrim, there are tactics
19:50 Blanko And if you are in range of your target, your attack connects and you deal damage
19:50 Saddam In Morrowind, it's just repeatedly hitting attack and hoping you get lucky
19:50 Saddam Also, there are too many redundant skills
19:51 Blanko In Skyrim, it's just repeatedly hitting attack and not having to care about supposedly trivial things such as character building in order to be successful
19:51 Saddam lol, "character building"
19:51 Blanko For a supposedly more action-oriented game, it actually makes no imprevement mechanically over Morrowind
19:51 Saddam You mean going to a trainer to crank up your stats?
19:52 Blanko There are no hitboxes and it's entirely range-based
19:52 Blanko And in Skyrim in specific, for some reason there's a significant amount of delay between triggering an action and the action occurring
19:54 Saddam Maybe that's because you're a PC-fag
19:55 Blanko Well, yes
19:55 Blanko Consolefags have to get used to it because it's in virtually every game
19:55 Saddam Lies
19:56 Blanko It's just what you get when your games run at 30fps
19:56 Blanko But in Skyrim, it makes no difference
19:57 Saddam Irrelevant
19:57 Blanko Well, actually it does, it's even more unbearable at 30fps
19:57 Saddam Why do characters in Morrowind talk like information kiosks?
19:57 Saddam At least Skyrim makes them seem like people
19:57 Blanko Because it's a more efficient methos of providing lore lore lore
19:57 Blanko Also, I would disagree
19:58 Saddam You select a topic and get a wall of text
19:58 Blanko Since Skyrim reuses voice actors so much, it feels like you're talking to a lot of same people a lot
19:58 Saddam That's not how people talk
19:58 Saddam Yes, but I'm talking about the writing, not Bethesda's ridiculous approach to voice acting
19:59 Blanko It's the same shit as in Skyrim
19:59 Blanko What are you talking about
20:00 Saddam In Skyrim, and even Oblivion to a degree, the dialogue seems like the way people talk
20:00 Saddam The weird menu style in Morrowind is incredibly artificial
20:01 Blanko I'm confused
20:02 Blanko First you say you're talking about the writing, now it's about menu boxes again
20:02 Saddam It's both
20:02 Saddam The writing seems designed to fit the menu style
20:02 Saddam That's why it's so weird
20:03 Blanko I don't see how
20:04 Saddam Parsifal_Droid2, weigh in on this
20:04 Blanko They say shit, and then you pick topics based on what they said
20:04 Blanko It's literally the same thing as in Skyrim and Oblivion
20:04 Saddam But it seems more like a conversation in those games
20:04 Blanko Except instead, Oblivion and Skyrim put your dialogue options in full sentences
20:05 Blanko Which I would say is worse
20:05 Blanko Because that makes it look like you don't really like to talk that much
20:05 Blanko Morrowind leaves the rest of your side of the dialogue up to abstraction
20:05 Saddam Or does it?
20:06 Blanko Yes, it does
20:06 Saddam Oh
20:06 Saddam Okay
20:06 Saddam I should get back to playing it, actually
20:06 Blanko You are defeated
20:07 Saddam I have been bested
20:08 Blanko bamboozled
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19:47 Blanko Therefore it would be inferior to casual scum such as yourself
Shots fired!
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I like how blanko thinks that swords hit instantly upon deciding to swing.
I also like how blanko assumes that sword fights don't require actively blocking.
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I like how blanko thinks that swords hit instantly upon deciding to swing.
I also like how blanko assumes that sword fights don't require actively blocking.
What game are we talking about?
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Thanks for posting a link to said trailer, Dave. ::)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVMNQozxqos
Elves don't look like that.
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Game hasn't even started yet, lore is doomed.
haha
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Thanks for posting a link to said trailer, Dave. ::)
Kaiiijjjuuuu!
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Game hasn't even started yet, lore is doomed.
haha
Be silent, Redguard.
http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/news/post/2014/01/31/ask-us-anything-variety-pack-12
So it looks like if you order this Imperial Edition thing, you can play as an Imperial. I guess that's pretty cool. But more importantly:
We know that not all of Tamriel will be available for exploration upon release. This is understandable as quality is more important than quantity. What I wonder is: how will the unavailable zones be separated from the rest? An invisible wall? An impassable fog? - Djem Erez
If an area isn’t ready to be explored yet, there will be natural terrain features preventing access. Slaughterfish will also discourage you from swimming too far out.
I approve of this. Nobody likes invisible walls.
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How is restricting a race to a particular edition of the game "pretty cool" sadaam?
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There should exist no natural terrain that would prevent access from Cyrodiil to Hammerfell, Valenwood, Elsweyr, Black Marsh and Morrowind.
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How is restricting a race to a particular edition of the game "pretty cool" sadaam?
The general inclusion of Imperials is what's cool, not the restriction to one edition.
There should exist no natural terrain that would prevent access from Cyrodiil to Hammerfell, Valenwood, Elsweyr, Black Marsh and Morrowind.
They're talking about the initially unavailable zones, not the borders of Cyrodil.
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What kind of natural terrain will they use that can explicably open up as the new locations are released?
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Um.. the same thing WoW did. Mountains, water, big locked gates, whatever. I don't think I've played an MMO where invisible walls exist.
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How is restricting a race to a particular edition of the game "pretty cool" sadaam?
The general inclusion of Imperials is what's cool, not the restriction to one edition.
The game hasn't even released yet and I can 1-up people just by paying an extra 20 bucks? Man, this game is going to be just great.
Vanity pets! Oh boy!
:-\
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I haven't bothered to lurk or read up on it, but will playing an Imperial really be worth it?
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What kind of natural terrain will they use that can explicably open up as the new locations are released?
Deep rivers with incomplete brides, thick jungle, lava, cliff with no path down. Stuff like that.
Or just a steep hill all around.
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1. lore lore lore
2. lore money lore
3. money money lore
4. money money money
5. ?? ?? ?
6. Profit
See, step 4 isn't because of MMOs. MMOs are because of step 4.
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I laughed and laughed.
Anyway, yes, ZeniMax are whores. I'm just saying that having Imperials is better than not having Imperials.
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But what's the difference between having an imperial and not? Do they not get an alliance? Are they awesome with stats? Do they start with more gold/items?
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But what's the difference between having an imperial and not? Do they not get an alliance? Are they awesome with stats? Do they start with more gold/items?
Did you not read the article I linked? >o<
You linked an article?
Found it.
So there's not a whole lot of benefit for an extra $20.
Good to know its not worth it.
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But what's the difference between having an imperial and not? Do they not get an alliance? Are they awesome with stats? Do they start with more gold/items?
Did you not read the article I linked? >o<
You linked an article?
Found it.
So there's not a whole lot of benefit for an extra $20.
Good to know its not worth it.
they have to maintain a delicate balance between those who want to be able to get cools stuff and those who immediately whine "OMG P2W" the moment anything in the game is purchasable.
I think this threads that line quite well. It seems that digital preorders will also allow you to play any race in any alliance which is quite cool.
I think the idea is to make it semi-realistic since whilst you might get a few rogue elements in different alliances they don't want the whole server full.
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But what's the difference between having an imperial and not? Do they not get an alliance? Are they awesome with stats? Do they start with more gold/items?
Did you not read the article I linked? >o<
You linked an article?
Found it.
So there's not a whole lot of benefit for an extra $20.
Good to know its not worth it.
they have to maintain a delicate balance between those who want to be able to get cools stuff and those who immediately whine "OMG P2W" the moment anything in the game is purchasable.
I think this threads that line quite well. It seems that digital preorders will also allow you to play any race in any alliance which is quite cool.
I think the idea is to make it semi-realistic since whilst you might get a few rogue elements in different alliances they don't want the whole server full.
I don't disagree. I'm simply saying that it may not be enough of an incentive for players to purchase the collectors edition over the normal one.
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I don't disagree. I'm simply saying that it may not be enough of an incentive for players to purchase the collectors edition over the normal one.
You do get a little statue.
TBH I never think collectors editions are "worth it" in a value for money sense, they're only ever worth it if you look at it as owning a unique item that transcends value... otherwise known as having more money than sense.
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It's a collectors edition, the same as any other. Extra crap thrown in to please fans and to function as a 'collectible'.
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I've always found the idea of a digital collector's edition to be a bit oxymoronic.
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I don't disagree. I'm simply saying that it may not be enough of an incentive for players to purchase the collectors edition over the normal one.
Collectors' editions are for collectors and huge fans of the series, they don't necessarily need to be sensibly priced to line up with whatever you get with them. They're for those who want extra things, like the statue, who just love the series to death. I mean, if I bought a Zelda collectors' edition it wouldn't matter to me if it affected the game at all, I'd just want whatever bonus stuff it comes with and the ability to say I own the collectors' edition.
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Being able to play a race no one else can play to me is a pretty big 1-up on everyone who didn't buy the Imperial edition. That's like giving an entirely different play style to people who paid an extra $20.
Also the game alone is $60, WoW was $40. At least WoW readily felt sorry for you before it stole the rest of your wallet rather than trying to jack more right at the start.
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I mean, if I bought a Zelda collectors' edition it wouldn't matter to me if it affected the game at all, I'd just want whatever bonus stuff it comes with and the ability to say I own the collectors' edition.
I for one Zelda.
Being able to play a race no one else can play to me is a pretty big 1-up on everyone who didn't buy the Imperial edition. That's like giving an entirely different play style to people who paid an extra $20.
You make it sound like the Imperials are some kind of master race that the munchkins will all flock to. Gameplay-wise, they're pretty similar to the Dunmer in how middle-of-the-road they are. I'm not seeing any big advantage in playing as one.
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I mean, if I bought a Zelda collectors' edition it wouldn't matter to me if it affected the game at all, I'd just want whatever bonus stuff it comes with and the ability to say I own the collectors' edition.
I for one Zelda.
Please stop it, markjo. One-liners just don't work on the Internet.
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You make it sound like the Imperials are some kind of master race that the munchkins will all flock to. Gameplay-wise, they're pretty similar to the Dunmer in how middle-of-the-road they are. I'm not seeing any big advantage in playing as one.
It doesn't matter if there is an advantage or not, the point is that people who don't pay that $20 don't get to play them. Seems like a slap in the face to me.
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You make it sound like the Imperials are some kind of master race that the munchkins will all flock to. Gameplay-wise, they're pretty similar to the Dunmer in how middle-of-the-road they are. I'm not seeing any big advantage in playing as one.
It doesn't matter if there is an advantage or not, the point is that people who don't pay that $20 don't get to play them. Seems like a slap in the face to me.
people who don't pay anything don't get to play at all...
you get what you pay for, in this case you pay a fair bit to get not so much.
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I don't disagree. I'm simply saying that it may not be enough of an incentive for players to purchase the collectors edition over the normal one.
Collectors' editions are for collectors and huge fans of the series, they don't necessarily need to be sensibly priced to line up with whatever you get with them. They're for those who want extra things, like the statue, who just love the series to death. I mean, if I bought a Zelda collectors' edition it wouldn't matter to me if it affected the game at all, I'd just want whatever bonus stuff it comes with and the ability to say I own the collectors' edition.
Zelda packaged a reworked version of ocarina of time with pre orders of wind waker and released a collectors edition which contained Zelda 1,2, oot, and majora's mask, plus a preview of the next game.
Now that's a collectors edition.
I'd pay more if you got a couple of the earlier elder scrolls with improved graphics thrown in.
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Zelda packaged a reworked version of ocarina of time with pre orders of wind waker and released a collectors edition which contained Zelda 1,2, oot, and majora's mask, plus a preview of the next game.
Now that's a collectors edition.
I actually still have the former lying around at my mom's house somewhere. Master Quest was wonderful. I think I might even have the second from when I got the Gamecube...I'm not completely sure, though.
Either way, they're also both, as much as I absolutely love Zelda, sadly collector's editions that are completely unnecessary because none of them really contain anything new (except Master Quest, so there's that), and I'm not sure they're really "collector's editions" in the normal sense because they're both essentially just packagings of older games in the series. The latter, especially, wasn't a part of any new Zelda game at all, so it was more of a "greatest hits" disc than anything.
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You make it sound like the Imperials are some kind of master race that the munchkins will all flock to. Gameplay-wise, they're pretty similar to the Dunmer in how middle-of-the-road they are. I'm not seeing any big advantage in playing as one.
It doesn't matter if there is an advantage or not, the point is that people who don't pay that $20 don't get to play them. Seems like a slap in the face to me.
Yeah but in a world where imperials look nearly identical to most of the other human races (minus the skin tone) making say.... A nord and calling him an imperial rogue is only going to be noticeable by the race tag on your profile. Especially after you learn imperial style crafting.
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people who don't pay anything don't get to play at all...
you get what you pay for, in this case you pay a fair bit to get not so much.
By this logic people shouldn't be mad at all about pay-to-win games.
Yeah but in a world where imperials look nearly identical to most of the other human races (minus the skin tone) making say.... A nord and calling him an imperial rogue is only going to be noticeable by the race tag on your profile. Especially after you learn imperial style crafting.
Paid bonuses are my pet peeve, is all. Especially highly visible ones. It's not the players I'm worried about, it's that the gaming company clearly wants your money, not interested at all in releasing an innovative or amazing game.
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Paid bonuses are my pet peeve, is all. Especially highly visible ones. It's not the players I'm worried about, it's that the gaming company clearly wants your money, not interested at all in releasing an innovative or amazing game.
lol. They're making another $15/month fantasy MMO. Innovation is the last thing on their minds at the moment, they want WoW level income.
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lol. They're making another $15/month fantasy MMO. Innovation is the last thing on their minds at the moment, they want WoW level income.
The overall way Elder Scrolls games are normally played left them a lot of room to improve upon Skinner Box WoW but they done goofed that up.
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Omg, they went pay to play, they are WoW now.
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Omg, they went pay to play, they are WoW now.
No, that's the point. They're not WoW and they'll never be WoW. They want to be WoW, and that is why they will fail.
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people who don't pay anything don't get to play at all...
you get what you pay for, in this case you pay a fair bit to get not so much.
By this logic people shouldn't be mad at all about pay-to-win games.
not really, they just shouldn't play them if they're ridiculous.
All games that aren't free are pay to win.
This is pay for frippery, as most real games that people moan about being P2W are.
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Got another invite this weekend.
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same. We should all group up and proclaim how flat the land of Elder Scrolls is.
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Nirn. It's called Nirn.
That's made up, Saddam. It's not a real word.
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No, it's a real word. The lore confirms this:
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Nirn
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No, it's a real word. The lore confirms this:
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Nirn
Elder Scrolls land isn't a place and therefore has no word. It's not real. Snap out of it, Saddam. Come join us in reality, where the Earth is flatter than ever.
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And Skyrim belongs to us!
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the land of Elder Scrolls
Nirn. It's called Nirn.
No. Tamriel is the land, Nirn is the planet, Mundus is the celestial/ oblivion plane.
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Yes, Nirn is the planet. Therefore, the equivalent of the Flat Earth Society would be the Flat Nirn Society.
And Skyrim belongs to us!
Yes, but is it the same Skyrim that we know and love from Skyrim? Apparently they've taken a hatchet to the Cyrodil that was depicted in Oblivion. What if they've done the same with Skyrim and Morrowind?
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Takes so long to download this game. Its like 50 thousand terabytes. The graphics better be so good I can touch my monitor and be teleported to another universe.
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It won't be.
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The universe of 2007 videogame graphics, maybe.
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From what I've seen, the graphics aren't fantastic, but they're not 2007-quality either. Don't be silly.
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Halo 3 came out in 2007. Obviously a linear shooter is going to have better graphics than its contemporary RPG peers, but ESO has a seven year advantage, and it still looks about as good as Halo 3.
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INTRO CINEMATIC PLACEHOLDER
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You have been placed in the queue to log in.
Thank you for your patience.
Approximate Wait Time: 30 min. 2 sec.
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I'm about to play the beta myself. I will find IRUSHTOCVS and le troll him
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He'll have to wait a long time though, since the game's files amount to 30 gigabytes.
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For a bunch of people that talk and talk about ESO lore, you guys sure aren't interested in playing the damn game. >:(
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For a bunch of people that talk and talk about ESO lore, you guys sure aren't interested in playing the damn game. >:(
Is it open beta?
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No, but seeing as how this was the stress test phase they gave a key to everyone and their mother.
In other news, I've got to say I like how they did the classes. Classes just determine your special abilities, there is nothing stopping you from being a mage that runs around in heavy armor and uses a broadsword. Every class has the ability to use every armor and weapon, at least so far. There might be class-specific items later on.
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No, but seeing as how this was the stress test phase they gave a key to everyone and their mother.
In other news, I've got to say I like how they did the classes. Classes just determine your special abilities, there is nothing stopping you from being a mage that runs around in heavy armor and uses a broadsword. Every class has the ability to use every armor and weapon, at least so far. There might be class-specific items later on.
Except me. I got nothing. :(
(Pretty sure I signed up)
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For a bunch of people that talk and talk about ESO lore, you guys sure aren't interested in playing the damn game. >:(
We talk about TES lore. Not strictly ESO lore.
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TES are supposed to be single player games >o<
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I can't remember if I've asked this before, but have they made a statement to confirm that they'll still be making single-player Elder Scrolls games at its regular pace?
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I can't remember if I've asked this before, but have they made a statement to confirm that they'll still be making single-player Elder Scrolls games at its regular pace?
I wouldn't expect ZeniMax Online Studios to make a singleplayer TES game, especially since Bethesda is likely already working on one.
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Oh, I thought Bethesda was working on it to some extent as well.
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For ESO, Bethesda is the publisher. Zenimax is the studio.
The Bethesda studio works on single player games.
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Bethesda Softworks is publishing the game. Bethesda Game Studios makes singleplayer games. There's a very important distinction!!!
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Ahh, alright, that's awesome then. Also possibly explains, partly, whe ESO feels so off
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Of course, that doesn't mean that the higher-ups won't be saying to Todd Howard something like "Well, we're taking care of the fantasy market with that Elder Scrolls MMO, so you guys should just work on a different IP now."
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Of course, that doesn't mean that the higher-ups won't be saying to Todd Howard something like "Well, we're taking care of the fantasy market with that Elder Scrolls MMO, so you guys should just work on a different IP now."
Sounds very plausible Saddam, especially considering that the last single player TES game is one of the best selling videogames of all time, and ESO has been received very critically so far.
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This is only vaguely related:
Imperial Guards vs Facebook. (http://imgur.com/a/ovYsq/noscript)
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/b/ humour is above Saddam's head.
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That was stupid.
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That was stupid.
Are you surprised?
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That was stupid.
Are you surprised?
Not in the slightest.
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That was stupid.
That's exactly what makes it great.
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15:30 Saddam Do you think TESO will manage to fuck up Morrowind's lore?
15:31 beardo What a question
15:31 Saddam Because the Tribunal and Great Houses and whatnot are going to be featured
15:31 Saddam For example, maybe we'll see Vivec, and he'll have this whiny voice actor and come across as a complete fa...I mean, loser
15:32 beardo If Vivec had the Oblivion Mer voice, I'd totally kill him.
15:33 Saddam I don't know why they switched voice actors like that
15:33 Saddam It's not like the guy died or anything
15:33 Saddam Bethesda just needs to give Jim Cummings more roles
15:33 Saddam That guy has mad skillz
15:33 beardo Jiub Jiub Jiub
15:34 Tintagel I'm just going to pretend TESO doesn't exist.
15:34 Saddam lore lore lore
15:34 Saddam Pretend it doesn't exist all you want, but Bethesda considers it lore!
15:34 Saddam They will ruin all the single-player games!
15:35 Saddam Like, they'll come up with a shitty origin story
15:35 Saddam All the Daedra were aliens from the planet Zeist
15:35 Saddam Something like that
15:35 Saddam Or all the Mer were
15:36 beardo TURNS OUT THE DIVINES ARE ACTUALLY ALIENS
15:36 beardo AND THE DAEDRA ARE BAD ALIENS
15:36 Saddam Yes
15:36 Blanko On the notion of CHIM
15:37 Saddam ZeniMax is going all over the place on that one
15:37 Saddam On the one hand, of course they're not going to make Cyrodil a jungle
15:37 Saddam But on the other hand, they're frightened of pissing off the fanboys even more
15:38 Saddam I think their latest explanation is that CHIM somehow applied to the past as well as the future
15:38 Saddam No, I don't get it either
15:38 Saddam Apparently it will be explained in more detail in the game
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[23:06:41] <-- Saddam has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
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Can you explain CHIM in terms for someone who is way too tired to read up on it right now pretty please? :]
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Can you explain CHIM in terms for someone who is way too tired to read up on it right now pretty please? :]
Apparantly anyone that knows CHIM can reshape the land.
The line "CHIM. Those who know it can reshape the land. Witness the home of the Red King Once Jungled," is a reference to the Godhead/CHIM theory proposed by Michael Kirkbride, about how Tiber Septim (the aforementioned 'Red King') used his abilities to alter Cyrodiil from the jungle described in lore from earlier games, to the way it appears in Oblivion.
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Mythic_Dawn_Commentaries_3
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CHIM is basically some kind of magical super-state where people can do things without being bound by the usual restraints of magic. Mankar Camoran claimed in his writing that it was how Tiber Septim managed to transform Cyrodiil from a jungle into a more temperate grassland. The event is also referred to here:
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/many-headed-talos
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So its a plot hole filler?
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Yes.
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They used a literal deus ex machina to fix a plot hole. That is the very definition of not fixing the plot hole. But whatever. If Doctor Who can make a whole show where one guy has a screwdriver that does literally anything you happen to need it to when the plot demands it, then ESO can get away with this.
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Deus ex machinas are lazy writing, but that doesn't mean that the plot hole wasn't fixed. It was fixed, just in a very lazy way.
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I would have accepted a group of wizards bent on wild climate change before I'd like to see the excuse "god did it!"
Such BS.
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http://tay.kotaku.com/elder-scrolls-online-impressions-from-an-mmo-hater-skyr-1537221720/@tinaamini
So this has me mildly interested, mostly in how each race's armour will be different and influenced by their culture and all. I still highly doubt I'll play it unless someone inexplicably buys me a subscription, but it's kinda a neat look at the game for those who haven't tried it.
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I'm a little confused about how the main story is going to work. I had thought that the war was just a PvP thing that would always be going on throughout the course of the game, but now it's being tied into the story? You have to win the war and become the emperor so that you can fight off Molag Bal for good? But then what happens with the PvP area and the Dark Anchors - are they just not there anymore? ???
Also, it's not the first time I've heard complaints that a lot of the writing keeps talking about how you are the Chosen One, the sole hero, and other crap that basically expects you to ignore the fact that there are dozens of people running around in the exact same area doing the exact same thing you're doing. It's really silly.
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Also, it's not the first time I've heard complaints that a lot of the writing keeps talking about how you are the Chosen One, the sole hero, and other crap that basically expects you to ignore the fact that there are dozens of people running around in the exact same area doing the exact same thing you're doing. It's really silly.
It's why I hate MMOs in general, apart from games like Eve you're living in a country/ world where the overwhelming majority of the populace is an adventurer for a living. I genuinely wonder how such a nation would function in the real world - what would be the effect of thousands of gold coins from ancient times being brought back into circulation on the economy? Would the local ecosystem would collapse like Christmas Island as roving adventurers plunder the fruits of the land and hunt the local beasts into oblivion?
I'd play an MMO which actually dealt with problems like this as the game went on; dealing with hyperinflation and resource scarcity, and a deadly arms race as magical artifacts from the depth os hell flood onto the streets.
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An actual world where everyone could shoot lightning from their hands would be chaos 24/7.
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Also, it's not the first time I've heard complaints that a lot of the writing keeps talking about how you are the Chosen One, the sole hero, and other crap that basically expects you to ignore the fact that there are dozens of people running around in the exact same area doing the exact same thing you're doing. It's really silly.
It's why I hate MMOs in general, apart from games like Eve you're living in a country/ world where the overwhelming majority of the populace is an adventurer for a living. I genuinely wonder how such a nation would function in the real world - what would be the effect of thousands of gold coins from ancient times being brought back into circulation on the economy? Would the local ecosystem would collapse like Christmas Island as roving adventurers plunder the fruits of the land and hunt the local beasts into oblivion?
I'd play an MMO which actually dealt with problems like this as the game went on; dealing with hyperinflation and resource scarcity, and a deadly arms race as magical artifacts from the depth os hell flood onto the streets.
Since the currency of old is precious metals, its likely that the metal would be worth its current price and not the face value of the coin.
As gold was put into the system, its value would drop. The nation would either make gold rare again somehow or switch to a new, less common currency base.
But that's unlikely. The most likely scenario is the death rate of adventurers would be too high to impact the economy co siderably. This would lead to rules and guilds being formed to prevent people from going out adventuring without enough training. Adventuring without a license would carry a huge fine.
Then, when things quiet down, it'll be discovered that all the old tombs have been fully plundered and a venturing will become a worthless occupation aside from escort quests.
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It's why I hate MMOs in general, apart from games like Eve you're living in a country/ world where the overwhelming majority of the populace is an adventurer for a living. I genuinely wonder how such a nation would function in the real world - what would be the effect of thousands of gold coins from ancient times being brought back into circulation on the economy? Would the local ecosystem would collapse like Christmas Island as roving adventurers plunder the fruits of the land and hunt the local beasts into oblivion?
I'd play an MMO which actually dealt with problems like this as the game went on; dealing with hyperinflation and resource scarcity, and a deadly arms race as magical artifacts from the depth os hell flood onto the streets.
I, too, hate unrealistic video games.
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Also, it's not the first time I've heard complaints that a lot of the writing keeps talking about how you are the Chosen One, the sole hero, and other crap that basically expects you to ignore the fact that there are dozens of people running around in the exact same area doing the exact same thing you're doing. It's really silly.
It's why I hate MMOs in general, apart from games like Eve you're living in a country/ world where the overwhelming majority of the populace is an adventurer for a living. I genuinely wonder how such a nation would function in the real world - what would be the effect of thousands of gold coins from ancient times being brought back into circulation on the economy? Would the local ecosystem would collapse like Christmas Island as roving adventurers plunder the fruits of the land and hunt the local beasts into oblivion?
I'd play an MMO which actually dealt with problems like this as the game went on; dealing with hyperinflation and resource scarcity, and a deadly arms race as magical artifacts from the depth os hell flood onto the streets.
A lot of MMOs eventually end up exploring this idea because of gold farmers and whatnot. There is a lot of inflation and deflation going on in many MMOs in regards to items and how much gold/gil/whatever is really worth... Final Fantasy XI comes to mind. Wonderful game, though.
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As Astro said, a lot of the quests have NPCs referring to you as the sole hero, even though you're quite clearly surrounded by dozens of players running and jumping about on the same damn quests. I remember speaking to a ghost in some ancient library I had 'uncovered', which was swarming with other players. He said to me "You're the first person to have walked these halls for thousand of years!"
It's like the writers are doing this on purpose!
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So the quests aren't instanced then.
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So the quests aren't instanced then.
The NPCs are instanced, so you can't see other player's NPCs, but you can see other players.
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As Astro said, a lot of the quests have NPCs referring to you as the sole hero, even though you're quite clearly surrounded by dozens of players running and jumping about on the same damn quests. I remember speaking to a ghost in some ancient library I had 'uncovered', which was swarming with other players. He said to me "You're the first person to have walked these halls for thousand of years!"
It's like the writers are doing this on purpose!
in fairness, the ghosts have always been a bit dodgy when it comes to their understanding of the present. Remember the ghost iin the Inn in Skyrim who was convinced you were his old adventuring buddy?
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Behold, the ugliest Khajiit ever:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJNvh7c0MkM
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There are many different types of Khajits. Maybe that's one of them.
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There's only one type of Khajiit in the game (at least at launch), the Suthay-raht, and that really only determines their body structure. I'm just going by the graphics and choppy animations. I don't get it. Some clips I've seen of the game have looked fairly decent graphics-wise, but others look like ass.
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Saddam expects realistic rendering of fur, or so help him Ra there'll be trouble.
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I think you've forgotten about Oblivion
And I don't know what was going on with them in Arena and Daggerfall:
(http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/www.ign.com/9109/2011/08/Khajiit_Arena.jpg)
(http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/www.ign.com/9109/2011/08/Khajiit_Daggerfall.jpg)
Basically, Khajiit are always ugly.
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Moar bad graphics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJqQMk1vjyU
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It's an MMO.
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Terrible game design. No AI, clear enemy patterns, dumbest WoW player could beat it etc. I watched a few Let's Plays of it.
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Terrible game design. No AI, clear enemy patterns, dumbest WoW player could beat it etc. I watched a few Let's Plays of it.
While this is a joke, I am in the beta and the game has been pretty terribly designed. Overall it is more or less a copy and paste of WoW with some Elder Scrolls characters thrown in. The first person view is neat but you can still feel the basic fights are still exactly the same. The class system is well done, but doesn't make a point to tell you that classes ultimately don't control what you can do. I won't be buying it in the future.
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Is it me or is the topography of the whole area totally different?
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Terrible game design. No AI, clear enemy patterns, dumbest WoW player could beat it etc. I watched a few Let's Plays of it.
While this is a joke, I am in the beta and the game has been pretty terribly designed. Overall it is more or less a copy and paste of WoW with some Elder Scrolls characters thrown in. The first person view is neat but you can still feel the basic fights are still exactly the same. The class system is well done, but doesn't make a point to tell you that classes ultimately don't control what you can do. I won't be buying it in the future.
But Rushy, you're the Chosen One! You and you alone are the hero!
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No saddam...
Guest is the chosen one.
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While this is a joke, I am in the beta and the game has been pretty terribly designed. Overall it is more or less a copy and paste of WoW with some Elder Scrolls characters thrown in. The first person view is neat but you can still feel the basic fights are still exactly the same. The class system is well done, but doesn't make a point to tell you that classes ultimately don't control what you can do. I won't be buying it in the future.
Yeah, I agree from what I've played. I was tentatively and cautiously excited, but meh, it seems like generic MMO galore. My interest quickly waned from thereon out. :[
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And nobody was surprised.
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No saddam...
Guest is the chosen one.
I am the canonical Nord Dragonborn.
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No saddam...
Guest is the chosen one.
I am the canonical Nord Dragonborn.
he he he
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Why is every gameplay video on youtube played in thirs person perspective? ???
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Why is every gameplay video on youtube played in thirs person perspective? ???
After playing for a bit you realize that first person is a gimmick. Not only is it easier to play in third person, it offers real gameplay advantages. Is someone coming up behind you? You wouldn't know in first person, but you would in third. It's a sort of situational awareness god mode. First person is only useful when you have to aim, which means it isn't useful at all in ESO.
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Why is every gameplay video on youtube played in thirs person perspective? ???
After playing for a bit you realize that first person is a gimmick. Not only is it easier to play in third person, it offers real gameplay advantages. Is someone coming up behind you? You wouldn't know in first person, but you would in third. It's a sort of situational awareness god mode. First person is only useful when you have to aim, which means it isn't useful at all in ESO.
Of course third person has advantages over first person, but I believe first person is used in rpgs mostly for added immersion.
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Of course third person has advantages over first person, but I believe first person is used in rpgs mostly for added immersion.
Anyone who plays ESO for its immersion is going to have one hell of a bad time.
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Of course third person has advantages over first person, but I believe first person is used in rpgs mostly for added immersion.
Anyone who plays ESO for its immersion is going to have one hell of a bad time.
Truer words have never been spoken.
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Anyone who plays ESO [...] is going to have one hell of a bad time.
Truer words have never been spoken.
Fixed for truthfulness
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No saddam...
Guest is the chosen one.
That was so exciting until I quoted it...
Fuck Guest
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No saddam...
Guest is the chosen one.
That was so exciting until I quoted it...
Fuck Guest
Fuck you, Guest. >:|
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No saddam...
Guest is the chosen one.
That was so exciting until I quoted it...
Fuck Guest
Fuck you, Guest. >:|
I am the only one this works for.
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No saddam...
Guest is the chosen one.
That was so exciting until I quoted it...
Fuck Guest
Fuck you, Guest. >:|
I am the only one this works for.
No.
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Guest Guest Guest Guest Guest Guest Guest Guest
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No saddam...
Guest is the chosen one.
That was so exciting until I quoted it...
Fuck Guest
It could be worse. For example, beardo was fooled by it even after he quoted it.
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"Shortly after the game's launch Joystiq's Massively blog reported that players couldn't start the thirty days of free time included with their purchase until a subscription had been set up and—in "a strange state of affairs" and "most likely a mistake"—after a full month had been paid for." - Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elder_Scrolls_Online#Reception)
Yeah, it was a mistake. Let's go with that.
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Oh its out?
How are the reviews? Is it worth downloading the free trial when that's out? Or will it be F2P in a few months?
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Vauxy just linked to the "Reception" section of its Wikipedia article.
I wouldn't go by that. Dave should watch some gameplay videos and player reviews before delving into ESO. From what I've seen, it's a mess... but Wikipedia will tell you otherwise.
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The game itself feels like one giant grind MMO, not like an actual Elder Scrolls game. You're forced down a very linear path of quests just like every other MMO out there. Yeah, it makes some interesting changes to the MMO sphere (such as classes not affecting your playstyle) but the overall game feels bland. MMOs see WoW as a success but they fail to see the WoW generation is tired of WoW.
I'm looking forward to games like Star Citizen, games that take the massive multiplayer aspect and do something really interesting with it, not copy and paste WoW's aging schema.
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The game itself feels like one giant grind MMO, not like an actual Elder Scrolls game. You're forced down a very linear path of quests just like every other MMO out there. Yeah, it makes some interesting changes to the MMO sphere (such as classes not affecting your playstyle) but the overall game feels bland. MMOs see WoW as a success but they fail to see the WoW generation is tired of WoW.
I'm looking forward to games like Star Citizen, games that take the massive multiplayer aspect and do something really interesting with it, not copy and paste WoW's aging schema.
The only MMO I've ever really enjoyed was Final Fantasy XI. I played WoW, had a max level character, and was in a guild... one day I quit and now I have no desire to go back. It's easy to get into that game if you have "friends" around who play it.
One MMO that has always captured my interest is EVE online, but I haven't tried it outside of a short free trial. The whole idea of EVE is extrememly appealing to me though. I want to pilot my own starship, damnit.
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I fancied Eve until I saw the combat.
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The game itself feels like one giant grind MMO, not like an actual Elder Scrolls game. You're forced down a very linear path of quests just like every other MMO out there. Yeah, it makes some interesting changes to the MMO sphere (such as classes not affecting your playstyle) but the overall game feels bland. MMOs see WoW as a success but they fail to see the WoW generation is tired of WoW.
I'm looking forward to games like Star Citizen, games that take the massive multiplayer aspect and do something really interesting with it, not copy and paste WoW's aging schema.
The only MMO I've ever really enjoyed was Final Fantasy XI. I played WoW, had a max level character, and was in a guild... one day I quit and now I have no desire to go back. It's easy to get into that game if you have "friends" around who play it.
One MMO that has always captured my interest is EVE online, but I haven't tried it outside of a short free trial. The whole idea of EVE is extrememly appealing to me though. I want to pilot my own starship, damnit.
EVE is one of the few games that really gets immersion right. I've played EVE off and on for some years and always enjoy it. The last corporation I was in slowly dissolved, however, and I haven't met a group I clicked with since. EVE without a good corp just isn't very exciting, I'm afraid. But it is a magnificent game, for sure.
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I fancied Eve until I saw the combat.
EVE isn't about shallow and pedantic combat. It's a game for super smart scientists with some time to kill in between PhDs.
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EVE's alright but I got bored with it after a while. I'm not sure if that's because I'm getting older and find computer games a bit same old same old.
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I fancied Eve until I saw the combat.
EVE isn't about shallow and pedantic combat.
But that's what combat is. I mean I'm invoking Rush's Law here (I've never played it but that doesn't stop me having an opinion that's stated as fact). But from what I've seen combat is basically spinning around in a circle going pew pew pew. Elite was better than that.
But I think its cool that stories like this get published.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2547908/EVE-online-sees-biggest-battle.html
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I fancied Eve until I saw the combat.
EVE isn't about shallow and pedantic combat.
But that's what combat is. I mean I'm invoking Rush's Law here (I've never played it but that doesn't stop me having an opinion that's stated as fact). But from what I've seen combat is basically spinning around in a circle going pew pew pew. Elite was better than that.
But I think its cool that stories like this get published.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2547908/EVE-online-sees-biggest-battle.html
Can someone explain to me why EVE has a protection racket going? Is it game company run or player run?
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Can someone explain to me why EVE has a protection racket going? Is it game company run or player run?
A company (CCP) develops and maintains the software, releases new content, etc. but as far as the actual game they do not touch it at all. CCP is very laissez-faire with Eve and it has gained them a non-stop increasing amount of subscribers since its release. It is the only MMO that has ever gained people at a consistent rate, rather than have an initial spike in popularity and taper off later. Other than game mechanics, the game's content is almost 100% player driven. There are NPC quests but they aren't fun in anything other than short burts and you only grind them for money. Eve is all about PvP. If you're not affecting another player in some fashion (good or otherwise) you are playing Eve wrong.
CCP is also the only gaming company that thinks griefing and scamming are legitimate parts of the game. If some guy scams you out of all your dough and you weren't smart enough to catch it, try whining to CCP. All you'll get is a "go fuck yourself." Albeit they might say it in nicer words.
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Can someone explain to me why EVE has a protection racket going? Is it game company run or player run?
A company (CCP) develops and maintains the software, releases new content, etc. but as far as the actual game they do not touch it at all. CCP is very laissez-faire with Eve and it has gained them a non-stop increasing amount of subscribers since its release. It is the only MMO that has ever gained people at a consistent rate, rather than have an initial spike in popularity and taper off later. Other than game mechanics, the game's content is almost 100% player driven. There are NPC quests but they aren't fun in anything other than short burts and you only grind them for money. Eve is all about PvP. If you're not affecting another player in some fashion (good or otherwise) you are playing Eve wrong.
CCP is also the only gaming company that thinks griefing and scamming are legitimate parts of the game. If some guy scams you out of all your dough and you weren't smart enough to catch it, try whining to CCP. All you'll get is a "go fuck yourself." Albeit they might say it in nicer words.
So the money that wasn't paid was for a player run protection racket? Bloody Hell. Someone's making a lot of money off this game. Some people are just way too into it if they agree to patrol territory as a second job.
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That's why Eve is terrible. Why would you want to worry about finances in a game AND real life?
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Have teso failed financially and turned free to play because nobody wanted to pay the monthly subscription yet?
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They get a free month to begin with, so we will have to wait.
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I fancied Eve until I saw the combat.
EVE isn't about shallow and pedantic combat.
But that's what combat is. I mean I'm invoking Rush's Law here (I've never played it but that doesn't stop me having an opinion that's stated as fact). But from what I've seen combat is basically spinning around in a circle going pew pew pew. Elite was better than that.
But I think its cool that stories like this get published.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2547908/EVE-online-sees-biggest-battle.html
That's fairly awesome
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They get a free month to begin with, so we will have to wait.
"Free".
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A free 60 dollar month
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Ha ha ha.
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That's fairly awesome
I'm almost tempted but I don't think a 14 day trial is long enough. I can imagine in that time I'll have figured out how to rotate and raise and lower undercarriage. I don't like to pay for buttraep.
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"Free".
A free 60 dollar month
I was talking about the subscription itself, in response to beardo's question about the subscription itself. Don't be pedantic.
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I got this with rich legacy trust fund money from selling isagenix (buy from my mom pls)
And I got a code that lets me play any race in any alliance.
Will someone help make my racially motivated decisions?
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It feels like it wouldn't really jibe with the lore to play as a race in a different alliance. Not that it could never be justified, but I highly doubt there's anything in the writing that might actually address the discrepancy, and it's probably just something you'd be expected to ignore. I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't have an issue with that, but if it were me, I'd just play as a member of my race's default alliance.
As for your race, I suggest you stick with the Orcs. You have a lot in common with them. They're big, green, have excessive elbows, are misunderstood by society, and live in strongholds.
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It feels like it wouldn't really jibe with the lore to play as a race in a different alliance. Not that it could never be justified, but I highly doubt there's anything in the writing that might actually address the discrepancy, and it's probably just something you'd be expected to ignore. I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't have an issue with that, but if it were me, I'd just play as a member of my race's default alliance.
As for your race, I suggest you stick with the Orcs. You have a lot in common with them. They're big, green, have excessive elbows, are misunderstood by society, and live in strongholds.
Not everyone in the same race has the same agenda Saddamit. And I think a high-elf awknowledged it.
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(http://i.imgur.com/zPtm2dA.jpg)
That's my motto.
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(http://i.imgur.com/zPtm2dA.jpg)
That's my motto.
I didn't, I have for other things.
Minecraft if like 25 bucks or something.
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It feels like it wouldn't really jibe with the lore to play as a race in a different alliance. Not that it could never be justified, but I highly doubt there's anything in the writing that might actually address the discrepancy, and it's probably just something you'd be expected to ignore. I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't have an issue with that, but if it were me, I'd just play as a member of my race's default alliance.
As for your race, I suggest you stick with the Orcs. You have a lot in common with them. They're big, green, have excessive elbows, are misunderstood by society, and live in strongholds.
Not everyone in the same race has the same agenda Saddamit. And I think a high-elf awknowledged it.
That's right, but my issue is that I don't think it will be addressed in-game. You'll probably just get the exact same dialogue as everyone else, nobody raising an eyebrow over the fact that you're a foreigner who's apparently on their side.
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It feels like it wouldn't really jibe with the lore to play as a race in a different alliance. Not that it could never be justified, but I highly doubt there's anything in the writing that might actually address the discrepancy, and it's probably just something you'd be expected to ignore. I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't have an issue with that, but if it were me, I'd just play as a member of my race's default alliance.
As for your race, I suggest you stick with the Orcs. You have a lot in common with them. They're big, green, have excessive elbows, are misunderstood by society, and live in strongholds.
Not everyone in the same race has the same agenda Saddamit. And I think a high-elf awknowledged it.
That's right, but my issue is that I don't think it will be addressed in-game. You'll probably just get the exact same dialogue as everyone else, nobody raising an eyebrow over the fact that you're a foreigner who's apparently on their side.
An elf said "Just cuz I'm a high elf doesn't mean I support the aldermari dominion. A person can be born anywhere regardless of race.
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I paid $5 for Minecraft.
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It feels like it wouldn't really jibe with the lore to play as a race in a different alliance. Not that it could never be justified, but I highly doubt there's anything in the writing that might actually address the discrepancy, and it's probably just something you'd be expected to ignore. I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't have an issue with that, but if it were me, I'd just play as a member of my race's default alliance.
As for your race, I suggest you stick with the Orcs. You have a lot in common with them. They're big, green, have excessive elbows, are misunderstood by society, and live in strongholds.
Not everyone in the same race has the same agenda Saddamit. And I think a high-elf awknowledged it.
That's right, but my issue is that I don't think it will be addressed in-game. You'll probably just get the exact same dialogue as everyone else, nobody raising an eyebrow over the fact that you're a foreigner who's apparently on their side.
An elf said "Just cuz I'm a high elf doesn't mean I support the aldermari dominion. A person can be born anywhere regardless of race.
I know. But that character works because the writing is different for him. That's my whole point. Now imagine if that elf was talking with a Nord accent, and was making the same jingoistic racial comments as most of the Nords do, without a word of explanation towards the fact that he himself is an Altmer. In short, imagine if the game had treated him like just another Nord. That wouldn't have worked. It would have been weird and jarring.
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It feels like it wouldn't really jibe with the lore to play as a race in a different alliance. Not that it could never be justified, but I highly doubt there's anything in the writing that might actually address the discrepancy, and it's probably just something you'd be expected to ignore. I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't have an issue with that, but if it were me, I'd just play as a member of my race's default alliance.
As for your race, I suggest you stick with the Orcs. You have a lot in common with them. They're big, green, have excessive elbows, are misunderstood by society, and live in strongholds.
Not everyone in the same race has the same agenda Saddamit. And I think a high-elf awknowledged it.
That's right, but my issue is that I don't think it will be addressed in-game. You'll probably just get the exact same dialogue as everyone else, nobody raising an eyebrow over the fact that you're a foreigner who's apparently on their side.
An elf said "Just cuz I'm a high elf doesn't mean I support the aldermari dominion. A person can be born anywhere regardless of race.
I know. But that character works because the writing is different for him. That's my whole point. Now imagine if that elf was talking with a Nord accent, and was making the same jingoistic racial comments as most of the Nords do, without a word of explanation towards the fact that he himself is an Altmer. In short, imagine if the game had treated him like just another Nord. That wouldn't have worked. It would have been weird and jarring.
I have found that to be true even within the same faction, I'm on an island of Orcs and they keep saying "BLAH BLAH BLAH, You don't understand our culture, outsider. Blah Blah. We aren't savages." Granted if I didn't click some of the lines of dialogue they wouldn't say it.
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Is the orcish player character not born in Orsinum?
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Is the orcish player character not born in Orsinum?
You is born in a plane of oblivion without a soul, then teleported to daggerfall. I can't find Orsinum on any maps, and people keep saying the brenton's burnt it to the ground, but then people are like "NEW ORSINUM WILL RISE AGAIN" and I still can't find that.
I wanna just kill elves and worship malacath, but that isn't an option.
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Wanna know what else kills my immersion, when you talk in chat you talk in your account name rather than your character name. I feel like if you are a roleplayer that is stupid.
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Is the orcish player character not born in Orsinum?
You is born in a plane of oblivion without a soul
No, that's just where you begin the game, Mannimarco having already sacrificed you to Molag Bal. I can't find any confirmation of this online, but I think it's a fairly safe assumption that the player character (as opposed to player characters, because ZeniMax is sticking to that stupid "You are the Chosen One, the sole hero" thing) is from Cyrodiil, or at least has spent most of his/her life there. That's what all the previous titles have done, after all, probably because it provides an in-universe justification for the fish-out-of-water setup.
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I created a wood elf that looks like a scamp and I am playing a flute and riddling people for money on some rock.
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I pity anyone who actually paid money to play this game.
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I pity anyone who actually paid money to play this game.
It isn't a bad game. It would be better if it wasn't an MMO, but its a fine game. I don't know anything that is wrong with it, making it not worth the money.
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So it's like nearly every other MMO ever then?
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So it's like nearly every other MMO ever then?
Idk, probably not.
Edit: Omg i found an ogrim 10/10 would buy again
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So it's like nearly every other MMO ever then?
Yes.
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So it's like nearly every other MMO ever then?
probably not.
So it's like nearly every other MMO ever then?
Yes.
So which one is it?
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So it's like nearly every other MMO ever then?
probably not.
So it's like nearly every other MMO ever then?
Yes.
So which one is it?
Its too large of a generality to be true, even with the nearly.
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It's a pay-to-play MMO. It's designed to make you waste the largest amount of time possible while also making it seem like you're progressing when you actually aren't. Its a time sink, like all other MMOS with the exception of PSO, but that doesn't really count because its one of the best games ever made and not so much an MMO, more like an online action game with decent combat.
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It's a pay-to-play MMO. It's designed to make you waste the largest amount of time possible while also making it seem like you're progressing when you actually aren't. Its a time sink, like all other MMOS with the exception of PSO, but that doesn't really count because its one of the best games ever made and not so much an MMO, more like an online action game with decent combat.
+1
Though I may add TSW and Guild Wars since they're buy once play forever.
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All video games can be boiled down to just wasting time, if we're going to go down that road.
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All video games can be boiled down to just wasting time, if we're going to go down that road.
Not all would be considered wasting time within the context of the game itself.
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It's a pay-to-play MMO. It's designed to make you waste the largest amount of time possible while also making it seem like you're progressing when you actually aren't. Its a time sink, like all other MMOS with the exception of PSO, but that doesn't really count because its one of the best games ever made and not so much an MMO, more like an online action game with decent combat.
Wat?
In what way do you not progress in an MMO that you would progress in any other game? Is there not still a story? Have you played the game? In what ways do you waste time that you would not waste in another game?
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It's a pay-to-play MMO. It's designed to make you waste the largest amount of time possible while also making it seem like you're progressing when you actually aren't. Its a time sink, like all other MMOS with the exception of PSO, but that doesn't really count because its one of the best games ever made and not so much an MMO, more like an online action game with decent combat.
Wat?
In what way do you not progress in an MMO that you would progress in any other game? Is there not still a story? Have you played the game? In what ways do you waste time that you would not waste in another game?
MMOs are designed to get you to spend lots of time simply getting decent equipment and leveling (so you pay more money over time), where as in non-pay-to-play games these chores are easy and less time consuming. I am expressing displeasure at the MMO-model itself. I haven't played Elder Scrolls Online, so yeah I'm pulling a Rushy, but I've seen enough gameplay and read enough reviews to come to the conclusion that ESO doesn't stray that far from the typical MMO model, certainly not enough to validate me spending money on it at this time.
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ITT: Ghost of V seems confused by how RPGs work. Hilarity ensues.
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ITT: Ghost of V seems confused by how RPGs work. Hilarity ensues.
So you're saying that MMOs aren't a huge time investment or that all RPGS are a huge time investment?
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A really good piece of gear can take weeks to grind out in MMO's (before being made irrelevant in the next patch). Very few, if any, RPGs are similar in that regard.
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If I played the game with intent to get levels and stuff I'd have it, But I'm dicking around playing music at a graveyard and pretending to be a scamp. Oh no the game gives me enough content to do stuff all the time whatever shall I do.
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It's a pay-to-play MMO. It's designed to make you waste the largest amount of time possible while also making it seem like you're progressing when you actually aren't. Its a time sink, like all other MMOS with the exception of PSO, but that doesn't really count because its one of the best games ever made and not so much an MMO, more like an online action game with decent combat.
By PSO, do you mean Phantasy Star Online?
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It's a pay-to-play MMO. It's designed to make you waste the largest amount of time possible while also making it seem like you're progressing when you actually aren't. Its a time sink, like all other MMOS with the exception of PSO, but that doesn't really count because its one of the best games ever made and not so much an MMO, more like an online action game with decent combat.
By PSO, do you mean Phantasy Star Online?
I thought it was Planet Side Online.
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It's a pay-to-play MMO. It's designed to make you waste the largest amount of time possible while also making it seem like you're progressing when you actually aren't. Its a time sink, like all other MMOS with the exception of PSO, but that doesn't really count because its one of the best games ever made and not so much an MMO, more like an online action game with decent combat.
By PSO, do you mean Phantasy Star Online?
Yeah.
If I played the game with intent to get levels and stuff I'd have it, But I'm dicking around playing music at a graveyard and pretending to be a scamp. Oh no the game gives me enough content to do stuff all the time whatever shall I do.
That's fine. It's great that you're enjoying the little things the game has to offer. However, that's a completely different aspect from how the game actually works in terms of progressing. If pretending to be a scamp and playing a virtual lute in a graveyard are worth $15 a month to you, more power to ya.
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ITT: Ghost of V seems confused by how RPGs work. Hilarity ensues.
So you're saying that MMOs aren't a huge time investment or that all RPGS are a huge time investment?
ITT: Ghost of V uses generalizations and a false dichotomy. Hilarity continues.
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ITT: Ghost of V seems confused by how RPGs work. Hilarity ensues.
So you're saying that MMOs aren't a huge time investment or that all RPGS are a huge time investment?
ITT: Ghost of V uses generalizations and a false dichotomy. Hilarity continues.
ITT: Benjamin Franklin avoids basic questions and posts hip abbreviations in a imbecilic attempt at flaunting his e-peen.. Predictability, boredom, and over compensation ensue.
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It's a pay-to-play MMO. It's designed to make you waste the largest amount of time possible while also making it seem like you're progressing when you actually aren't. Its a time sink, like all other MMOS with the exception of PSO, but that doesn't really count because its one of the best games ever made and not so much an MMO, more like an online action game with decent combat.
By PSO, do you mean Phantasy Star Online?
Yeah.
If I played the game with intent to get levels and stuff I'd have it, But I'm dicking around playing music at a graveyard and pretending to be a scamp. Oh no the game gives me enough content to do stuff all the time whatever shall I do.
That's fine. It's great that you're enjoying the little things the game has to offer. However, that's a completely different aspect from how the game actually works in terms of progressing. If pretending to be a scamp and playing a virtual lute in a graveyard are worth $15 a month to you, more power to ya.
Define progressing in a game. How does one progress differently in an rpg that makes it false as opposed to other games with supposed progression?
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Define progressing in a game. How does one progress differently in an rpg that makes it false as opposed to other games with supposed progression?
Wait, what? Rephrase your question.
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Define progressing in a game. How does one progress differently in an rpg that makes it false as opposed to other games with supposed progression?
Wait, what? Rephrase your question.
You say that progress in the game is false. How is progress in the game false? How is it less real than other progress?
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Define progressing in a game. How does one progress differently in an rpg that makes it false as opposed to other games with supposed progression?
Wait, what? Rephrase your question.
You say that progress in the game is false. How is progress in the game false? How is it less real than other progress?
I never said it was "false". I just said it takes much longer to progress in MMOS than non-MMOS. Hence why I called them timesinks.
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Define progressing in a game. How does one progress differently in an rpg that makes it false as opposed to other games with supposed progression?
Wait, what? Rephrase your question.
You say that progress in the game is false. How is progress in the game false? How is it less real than other progress?
I never said it was "false". I just said it takes much longer to progress in MMOS than non-MMOS. Hence why I called them timesinks.
Lies.
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making it seem like you're progressing when you actually aren't.
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making it seem like you're progressing when you actually aren't.
You're taking what I said too literally. That was dramatic effect.
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I have yet to have a quest where I need to kill more than 6 things for.
Edit: well expect for a pvp quest
Also today I made 250g riddling.
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(http://i.imgur.com/aTvm5Gb.jpg?1)
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(http://i.imgur.com/aTvm5Gb.jpg?1)
10/10
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The reviews for this game are really demonstrating, once again, why the numerical rating system is so flawed. Most of the reviews I've read are just shitting all over it, but they're still giving overall scores of 6/10 or 8/10. Then websites like Wikipedia and Metacritic summarize the reception as being positive.
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The reviews for this game are really demonstrating, once again, why the numerical rating system is so flawed. Most of the reviews I've read are just shitting all over it, but they're still giving overall scores of 6/10 or 8/10. Then websites like Wikipedia and Metacritic summarize the reception as being positive.
The rating system isnt flawed. Its the people using the system.
If I ask you what you thought of the restaurant you just ate in and you reply "Horrible I puked twice between courses. 9/10" then you don't know how to rate things.
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The rating system isnt flawed. Its the people using the system.
If I ask you what you thought of the restaurant you just ate in and you reply "Horrible I puked twice between courses. 9/10" then you don't know how to rate things.
The rating system and the people using the system are flawed. Basing your initial impression of something on someone else's opinion is a flawed way of thinking. Use your own damn senses to figure out whether you like something or not, you lazy bastard.
Video game reviews are especially flawed as a whole. Everyone finds games enjoyable in different ways, and expecting a review to tell you how you're going to enjoy it is moronic. The only thing worthwhile about reviews is if they tell you real problems with the game in question (glitchy mess, shitty localization, etc). Don't even get me started on the numbering system used by various outlets to review media... >o<
IGN, you expect me to follow your review like it's the word of God, even knowing that you were probably paid off by the publisher? Ok.
Also, reviewing an MMO is tricky business. MMOs are always changing.
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Use your own damn senses to figure out whether you like something or not, you lazy bastard.
Your point is well made. I can only wish you luck in trying to figure out which mushrooms are poisonous.
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Use your own damn senses to figure out whether you like something or not, you lazy bastard.
Your point is well made. I can only wish you luck in trying to figure out which mushrooms are poisonous.
Its simple: dont eat wild mushrooms.
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Your point is well made. I can only wish you luck in trying to figure out which things to eat.
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The reviews for this game are really demonstrating, once again, why the numerical rating system is so flawed. Most of the reviews I've read are just shitting all over it, but they're still giving overall scores of 6/10 or 8/10. Then websites like Wikipedia and Metacritic summarize the reception as being positive.
The numerical system can work well in tandem with the full review. There are some games which have serious flaws but are still really fun gmes. 007:Everything or Nothing comes to mind.The single player is pretty bad and the competetive mode sucks big hairy balls, but the co-op mode is one of the best co-ops I'veever played. It's hard as nailsand you both really need to work together to survive.. My main review would slate the game, but I'd still gie it 6/7 out of 10 just for the huge amount of fun in the coop.
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That would require reading and thinking about how the game might fulfil one's gaming needs.
THE NUMERICAL RATING SYSTEM IS FLAWED!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/05/08/the-elder-scrolls-online-ps4-and-xbox-one-reportedly-delayed
The consolefags shall have to wait.
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ESO, the game no one actually wants to play.
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ESO, the game no one actually wants to play.
Or just some people?
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It looks like ZeniMax does indeed care about the lore:
13:50 beardo Here is the most accurate map of Tamriel http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130730213646/elderscrolls/images/3/3c/EmpireOfTamrielMap_Daggerfall.png
13:51 Saddam Imperial Province
13:51 Blanko Is that desert in the south?
13:52 Blanko Oh
13:52 Saddam No, that's just the parchment being faded or something
13:52 Blanko I guess it's just shitty background
13:52 Saddam It captures the lore element well, at least
13:52 Saddam Better than Skyrim's fucking GPS-style map
13:53 Saddam Way to spoil the mood, Bethesda
13:53 beardo http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140304125449/elderscrolls/images/8/8e/Stros_M%27Kai_Map.png
13:53 Blanko b-but muh user convenience
13:53 Blanko BAAAAWWWWWWW
13:53 Saddam At least with the earlier games it felt like you were looking at a map
13:54 Saddam Rather than taking out your smartphone and looking up Google Earth
13:54 Saddam beardo: That map is accurate
13:54 beardo Does this exist in Redguard? http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130621142813/elderscrolls/images/6/6d/Stros_M%27Kai_%28Online%29.jpg
13:55 Saddam Oh, yes, it does
13:55 Saddam That's the statue of Hunding, it looks like
13:55 beardo Okay
13:55 Blanko w0w
13:55 Blanko The developers of TESO actually played Redguard?
13:55 Saddam Only in Redguard, it looks a lot shittier
13:55 beardo I bet it looks just as goot too, eh?
13:55 Blanko shit tier
13:55 beardo and good
13:55 beardo okok
13:56 Saddam I think TESO depicted Stros M'Kai quite faithfully to Redguard
13:56 Blanko Can we ever talk about anything else
13:57 beardo Yes. They're depicting the world from one of the least well known TES games fatefully.
13:57 Saddam Power armor and energy weapons
13:57 beardo Instead what do they do to Windhelm
13:57 Saddam Hey, maybe they were fans
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TES is the least interesting fantasy series I've ever played.
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TES is a deep and engaging fantasy series with lore lore lore.
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Lore galore.
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13:53 Saddam At least with the earlier games it felt like you were looking at a map
13:54 Saddam Rather than taking out your smartphone and looking up Google Earth
Wow. You are literally the worst.
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13:53 Saddam At least with the earlier games it felt like you were looking at a map
13:54 Saddam Rather than taking out your smartphone and looking up Google Earth
Wow. You are literally the worst.
Yeah Saddam me and Rushy like literally can't even
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That's just one of numerous reasons why Morrowind and Oblivion are far better than Skyrim.
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That's just one of numerous reasons why Morrowind and Oblivion are far better than Skyrim.
Name three other things that make Oblivion superior to Skyrim.
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Immersion for one. Maybe I'm biased. I think the setting is significantly superior to Skyrim's. Cyrodil is a lush wilderness full of color and verve, Skyrim is a mess of greys and whites. I'm more partial to the way talking with NPCs was handled in Oblivion. Also, like others have stated... The UI is absurd for an Elder Scrolls game. It felt like I was playing some weird sci-fi Fallout or Star Trek game where you visit primitive planets. The quests were amazing, with the exception of the main quest. The characters were more believable and had much more personality than the ones in Slyrim, that's mostly the writers fault however. And I just like the entire engine better. The only thing Skyrim improved on was combat, but combat isn't really that important in an Elder Scrolls game.
Oblivion is x10 better than Skyrim.
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Quest design alone makes Oblivion significantly better than Skyrim.
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I assume you're only referring to the Dark Brotherhood questline, because everything else in the vanilla game was pretty standard or tedious. Also, let's not forget that the level-scaling system is unbelievably broken.
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The only thing Skyrim improved on was combat, but combat isn't really that important in an Elder Scrolls game.
Potato faces.
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Quest design alone makes Oblivion significantly better than Skyrim.
How so, exactly? It's been a long while since I've played Oblivion, but I don't remember the quests being a whole lot different.
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But potato faces
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Oblivion's quests usually involved more than dungeon-crawling.
Yes, they had potato faces. Nevertheless, Oblivion's quest design was better than Skyrim's.
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This guy (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Glarthir) is just one example of how Oblivion has better quests than Skyrim.
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The voices.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IqHEjJlyf8
Look how well the game is going.
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I can't even tell what's going on.
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I can't even tell what's going on.
Looks like a crowd of statistically median MMO players.
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Yes, they had potato faces. Nevertheless, Oblivion's quest design was better than Skyrim's.
Except the quest to cure vampirism, you mean.
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Yes, they had potato faces. Nevertheless, Oblivion's quest design was better than Skyrim's.
Except the quest to cure vampirism, you mean.
Let's not talk about that.
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Yes, they had potato faces. Nevertheless, Oblivion's quest design was better than Skyrim's.
Except the quest to cure vampirism, you mean.
Let's not talk about that.
I love the fact that it was so broken that it could only be completed if you changed the language to German.
I Should have named my vampire character 'Blutgras' in honour of that bug...
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I can't even tell what's going on.
Based on what I'm seeing it looks like a bunch of random named players (maybe some kind of NPC companions) are so focused on attacking one enemy but the clipping of NPCs is so bad that none of them can actually attack properly.
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I can't even tell what's going on.
Based on what I'm seeing it looks like a bunch of random named players (maybe some kind of NPC companions) are so focused on attacking one enemy but the clipping of NPCs is so bad that none of them can actually attack properly.
They're bots.
As in roBots. They're made out of technologies. You probably wouldn't understand.
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I can't even tell what's going on.
Based on what I'm seeing it looks like a bunch of random named players (maybe some kind of NPC companions) are so focused on attacking one enemy but the clipping of NPCs is so bad that none of them can actually attack properly.
They're bots.
As in roBots. They're made out of technologies. You probably wouldn't understand.
I didn't think that player created bots existed for the game yet. Seems like it only came out last month.
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I didn't think that player created bots existed for the game yet. Seems like it only came out last month.
Bots are a "day one" sort of thing.
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I didn't think that player created bots existed for the game yet. Seems like it only came out last month.
Bots are a "day one" sort of thing.
Some people need to learn the definition of fun.
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Some people need to learn the definition of fun.
Well, I'd say not playing an MMO is a good step forward in discovering fun.
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Bumping an old comment because lore lore lore:
I think you've forgotten about Oblivion
And I don't know what was going on with them in Arena and Daggerfall:
(http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/www.ign.com/9109/2011/08/Khajiit_Arena.jpg)
(http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/www.ign.com/9109/2011/08/Khajiit_Daggerfall.jpg)
Basically, Khajiit are always ugly.
The Khajiit in Arena are of the Ohmes (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ohmes) breed, and in Daggerfall they're Ohmes-raht (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ohmes-raht). The lore checks out!
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The Khajiit in Arena are of the Ohmes (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ohmes) breed, and in Daggerfall they're Ohmes-raht (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ohmes-raht). The lore checks out!
All other TES games, however, like to sweep that lore under the rug. Mostly because it is disturbing to think about a mountain lion birthing what is clearly a human child and having such a thing based on the phase of the moon.
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The Khajiit in Arena are of the Ohmes (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ohmes) breed, and in Daggerfall they're Ohmes-raht (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ohmes-raht). The lore checks out!
All other TES games, however, like to sweep that lore under the rug. Mostly because it is disturbing to think about a mountain lion birthing what is clearly a human child and having such a thing based on the phase of the moon.
Ohmes don't resemble humans. They resemble Bosmers. Although their description in Arena is rather strange, claiming the feline-like breeds are but a legend.
Khajiit hail from the province of Elsweyr. They are a fair skinned people who are extremely hardy, intelligent, and agile. Legend has it that they descended from an intelligent feline race, for they still retain a strange cast to their features. Many Khajiit have taken to painting their faces to more resemble their distant cousins
Lore lore lore.
Ohmes-raht only resemble humans from a distance due to their size and stature, but they have tails and short fur all over their bodies.
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Important:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/9083-The-Elder-Scrolls-Online-We-Can-MMO-Too
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Old. I think his review was pretty stock standard of most MMO's he's reviewed. Maybe a bit harsher than WoW or GW2.
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The Khajiit in Arena are of the Ohmes (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ohmes) breed, and in Daggerfall they're Ohmes-raht (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ohmes-raht). The lore checks out!
All other TES games, however, like to sweep that lore under the rug. Mostly because it is disturbing to think about a mountain lion birthing what is clearly a human child and having such a thing based on the phase of the moon.
Ohmes don't resemble humans. They resemble Bosmers. Although their description in Arena is rather strange, claiming the feline-like breeds are but a legend.
Khajiit hail from the province of Elsweyr. They are a fair skinned people who are extremely hardy, intelligent, and agile. Legend has it that they descended from an intelligent feline race, for they still retain a strange cast to their features. Many Khajiit have taken to painting their faces to more resemble their distant cousins
Lore lore lore.
Ohmes-raht only resemble humans from a distance due to their size and stature, but they have tails and short fur all over their bodies.
Someone is a furry.
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The Elder Scrolls Pornline
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Lore is an important study. Don't diminish that with your argument ad furries.
http://www.siliconera.com/2014/06/04/elder-scrolls-online-50-didnt-take-long/
The financial capitulation begins.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/06/20/tamriel-infinium-in-which-youre-told-that-elder-scrolls-online/
Okay, guys, it turns out the game is actually good, stop saying it's bad. You hipsters.
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What a terrible article. He's just saying repeatedly that he likes the game, without ever explaining why. Also, MMO failtrolls.
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Apparently there are sentient crows in TESO:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxNF8J1uWs8)
Very amusing, but I can't help but notice how the Duke tells you that you're totally the first to fulfill the "toll" and be allowed to enter their mysterious land of crows. Way to ignore your MMO setting yet again, ZeniMax. This is the worst clashing of gameplay and story that I've ever seen in a video game. They're deliberately calling attention to the existence of other players and directly telling you that it doesn't make any sense!
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It's as if the game was developed entirely by MMO failtrolls.
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I found that dungeon during one of the beta tests. It isn't exactly a secret place, it's even marked on the map.
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At least WoW bothers to admit in quest storylines that "oh, you're like the 500th guy I've hired to kill these fucking wolves, why are there so many goddamn many of them?"
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At least WoW bothers to admit in quest storylines that "oh, you're like the 500th guy I've hired to kill these fucking wolves, why are there so many goddamn many of them?"
It doesn't though. There's like 1 quest in the game that makes meta jokes about questing, and there's hundreds of quests along the lines of "Wow you totally saved everyone you're the hero of the world".
Although WoW doesn't give a shit about lore beyond raids, and even then it's flimsy.
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It doesn't though. There's like 1 quest in the game that makes meta jokes about questing, and there's hundreds of quests along the lines of "Wow you totally saved everyone you're the hero of the world".
Although WoW doesn't give a shit about lore beyond raids, and even then it's flimsy.
What? As far as I remember nearly every quest I did constantly referenced multiple heroes. Even the raid quest lore talks about how it took multiple people to do a specific task (i.e. kill Arthas etc.).
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It doesn't though. There's like 1 quest in the game that makes meta jokes about questing, and there's hundreds of quests along the lines of "Wow you totally saved everyone you're the hero of the world".
Although WoW doesn't give a shit about lore beyond raids, and even then it's flimsy.
What? As far as I remember nearly every quest I did constantly referenced multiple heroes. Even the raid quest lore talks about how it took multiple people to do a specific task (i.e. kill Arthas etc.).
Na. Solo quests largely pretend you're in your own world, unless they're a group quest where all of a sudden other heroes exist to the NPC's. Raid lore goes how you said though, Arthas/Deathwing/whatever were defeated by a 'bunch of heroes' with the help of Tirion/Thrall/whatever.
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Rushy, it also depends on when you played WOW. Almost all the quests in the game were rebooted after Cataclysm. Now every quest makes you feel like you're the saving the world singlehandedly.
There are even pseudo-cutscenes now, and I believe there are a few completely instanced quests now as well.
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I believe there are a few completely instanced quests now as well.
Sadly true. I miss the time when this wasn't the case so often - fucking the opposing faction up by killing their long and annoying escort quest never gets old.
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I believe there are a few completely instanced quests now as well.
Sadly true. I miss the time when this wasn't the case so often - fucking the opposing faction up by killing their long and annoying escort quest never gets old.
People that kill quest givers have a special place in hell.
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you can kill quest givers?
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In most places. Some quest givers have invulnerability or are too hard to kill, in newer leveling zones. But older ones don't have that.
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It's one thing to simply not acknowledge the presence of other players; it's another to tell you that they aren't there. Does WoW - or any other MMO, really - do that?
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I canceled playing it cuz no time and then they sent me a survey on what they could do better.
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It's one thing to simply not acknowledge the presence of other players; it's another to tell you that they aren't there. Does WoW - or any other MMO, really - do that?
Yeah, constantly. "Please collect me 10 bear asses because no one else can do it like you can, hero!" while 3 other people are handing over their 10 bear asses.
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bear asses
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It's one thing to simply not acknowledge the presence of other players; it's another to tell you that they aren't there. Does WoW - or any other MMO, really - do that?
Secret World constantly mentions other players and how they're always running around to help.
There's even one quest that basically says "The zombies get back up after you shoot them so would you mind just killing them again? Thanks."
The only time you feel like a lone hero is during the story missions but a lot of that is in solo instances and cut scenes.
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Immersion for one. Maybe I'm biased. I think the setting is significantly superior to Skyrim's. Cyrodil is a lush wilderness full of color and verve, Skyrim is a mess of greys and whites. I'm more partial to the way talking with NPCs was handled in Oblivion. Also, like others have stated... The UI is absurd for an Elder Scrolls game. It felt like I was playing some weird sci-fi Fallout or Star Trek game where you visit primitive planets. The quests were amazing, with the exception of the main quest. The characters were more believable and had much more personality than the ones in Slyrim, that's mostly the writers fault however. And I just like the entire engine better. The only thing Skyrim improved on was combat, but combat isn't really that important in an Elder Scrolls game.
Oblivion is x10 better than Skyrim.
Hey, Vauxy, remember when Diego was complaining about how Oblivion sucked because of minor lore deviations from prior games? And then it turned out that a lot of what he was saying wasn't actually true.
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Immersion for one. Maybe I'm biased. I think the setting is significantly superior to Skyrim's. Cyrodil is a lush wilderness full of color and verve, Skyrim is a mess of greys and whites. I'm more partial to the way talking with NPCs was handled in Oblivion. Also, like others have stated... The UI is absurd for an Elder Scrolls game. It felt like I was playing some weird sci-fi Fallout or Star Trek game where you visit primitive planets. The quests were amazing, with the exception of the main quest. The characters were more believable and had much more personality than the ones in Slyrim, that's mostly the writers fault however. And I just like the entire engine better. The only thing Skyrim improved on was combat, but combat isn't really that important in an Elder Scrolls game.
Oblivion is x10 better than Skyrim.
Is this a joke?
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Yeah Vauxy, don't be ridiculous. Oblivion isn't that much better, it's a 6/10 game to Skyrim's 4/10.
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This is not a joke. Skyrim is meh compared to Oblivion. Of course, I'm wearing rose-tinted goggles since Oblivion was my first Elder Scrolls game. Sorry I'm not morrowind elite.
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lol wow epic troller balkno such troll very troll (le doge meme xD) but seriously I would like to see some of these points defended. Firstly, the claim that Skyrim is a "mess of greys and whites".
(http://majamaki.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/skyrim-map-exported-with-tes4qlod-by-oceanlightwave-lg.jpg)
Less than half of the world's playable area is actually covered in snow.
Here's Cyrodiil. Very little variation.
(https://sites.google.com/site/whathuh052/OblivionNirnrootMap.jpg)
Secondly, how is conversing with NPCs better in Oblivion? The only difference is that, in Oblivion, the camera is locked several short inches from the NPCs face as the world noticeably freezes behind them. I don't see how this is an improvement over Skyrim's system, which retains the player's original perspective during conversation, doesn't freeze time, and allows you to look around.
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Secondly, how is conversing with NPCs better in Oblivion? The only difference is that, in Oblivion, the camera is locked several short inches from the NPCs potato face as the world noticeably freezes behind them. I don't see how this is an improvement over Skyrim's system, which retains the player's original perspective during conversation, doesn't freeze time, and allows you to look around.
Fix'd.
Also, while the voice acting isn't prefect in Skyrim, it's several times better than in Oblivion. The lack of variations in voice actors aside, the lines spoken in Oblivion sounds cartoonish and unprofessional. Like they're just reading them from a paper, which they are, but they sound like they're not putting any effort into making the lines sound believable. People don't speak the way they do, while the dialogues in Skyrim sounds a lot more realistic and believable, although as I said, not perfect yet.
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lol wow epic troller balkno such troll very troll (le doge meme xD)
>mffw
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lol wow epic troller balkno such troll very troll (le doge meme xD)
>mffw
What the vehk did you just say to me, you little N'wah? I'll have you know that I graduated top of my class from the battlespire, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Daedric Shrines, and I have over 300 confirmed trapped souls. I am trained in magickal warfare and I am the top battlemage in the entire Imperial Legion. You are nothing to me but just another soul. I will wipe you the vehk out with precision the likes of which have bever been seen before on Mundus, mark my vehking works. You think you can get away with saying that CHIM to me over the internet? Think again, N'wah. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of blades across Tamriel, and your magicka signature is being traced right now, so you better prepare for the storm, n'wah. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're vehking dead kid. I can be anywhere, any time, and I can kill you over seven hundred different ways, and that's just with my hand to hand skill. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the Imperial Legion, and I will use it to it's fullest extent to wipe your miserable vehk off the face of the earth, you little n'wah. If only you knew what unholy retribution your little "clever" remark was about to bring down, you would have held your vehking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you acursed n'wah. I will cast fury on you and you will drown in it. You're vehking dead, kiddo.
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Alright, Alex. Calm down. We know you're a Skyrim fanboy, but could you tone it down a notch?
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I'm not. I hate Skyrim, as well as every other ES game that came out after Morrowind. Oblivion is just objectively worse.
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They're all terrible games. Bioware makes better RPGs.
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They're all terrible games. Bioware makes better RPGs.
*tips trillby* expertly trolled m'sir
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I'm not. I hate Skyrim, as well as every other ES game that came out after Morrowind. Oblivion is just objectively worse.
Nice Rushing, bro
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At least in Mass Effect I can have sex with people. Even if you could have sex in Oblivion, you'd need an in game paper bag just to fap to it.
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I'm not. I hate Skyrim, as well as every other ES game that came out after Morrowind. Oblivion is just objectively worse.
(http://i.imgur.com/7BqEauIh.jpg)
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Excellent use of the black science guy meme "there's a bad guy over here" but you're ignoring the hard facts. How is the conversation system in Oblivion better than Skyrim's?
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I have taken advantage of some deal that let me get TESO at a lower price. If it's not worth $15 a month, I won't bother subscribing, but a month should be enough time to get the feel of the game and see if the lore is consistent.
lore lore lore
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I have taken advantage of some deal that let me get TESO at a lower price. If it's not worth $15 a month, I won't bother subscribing, but a month should be enough time to get the feel of the game and see if the lore is consistent.
lore lore lore
That's how they get you.
I believe the comedic possibilities with the zoom on faces make it better than Skyrim's conversation system by default. Not everything needs to be realistic. Time should freeze when people are talking. That's just games.
The maps posted show exactly what I was talking about. Skyrim is mostly grey/white/brown. At least Cyrodil looks pretty even if it looks the same all over (which isn't true to begin with). Skyrim's world is drab as hell.
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On that map, the snowy mountain ranges to the east, west, and south make up the province border and aren't part of the playable area. If your only argument for Oblivion's conversation system is that it's funny and that it's just a game, then I can do nothing more but submit the matter to the arbitration of our wise audience.
You can't accuse something of being "just" three colors when the thing you're defending is almost entirely monochromatic. More than three quarters of Cyrodiil is just green fields and green trees.
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BUT GREEN IS PRETTIER THAN GREY AND WHITE! BAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!
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>objectively worse
>hard facts
Not this shit again
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I watched some speedruns of morrowind and I can say it simply isn't a very good game.
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I watched some speedruns of morrowind and I can say it simply isn't a very good game.
Game is literally five minutes long, gg worse than Gone Home
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Dark Souls II is poorly designed.
Oh, wait, that's not the right thread... or is it?
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All right, I'm in Tamriel now. What do?
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I'm not. I hate Skyrim, as well as every other ES game that came out after Morrowind. Oblivion is just objectively worse.
Morrowind? Really? You do realize that that is the game where you can hit someone dead-on and still miss due to dice-rolls right? >_>
Back to addressing this post.
The problem here is that you're looking at this objectively; I'm looking at it subjectively. I have more fun playing Oblivion than I do playing Skyrim. That's a personal fact, for me. My personal tastes lead me to post on forums about how Oblivion is better than Skyrim. Although Skyrim does add some "improvements" on the original formula, it also takes some away. For example, the level up system in Skyrim is subjectively worse than Oblivion's level up system. I felt like I was actually creating a specified character with his own skills/weaknesses in Oblivion. Leveling up requires thought and dedication in Oblvion; Skyrim's system is just la-di-da/hoop-da-loop put points into a tree and pick which stat you want to level out of THREE stats. Oblivion's level up system, while more complicated, is more engaging and promotes experimentation and planning. The reason for this is because I think Skyrim was made with a more "noob-friendly" attitude, so that new ES players don't fuck up their character builds within the first few levels. I guess I should be thanking Bethesda, but I'm not a child and I know how to manage stats. Stat management is a large part of RPGS and adds more depth. Unforunately, Skyrim is lacking in the depth department because of these changes.
Comparisons:
Conversation system: I think it's funnier to watch in Oblivion. Especially when you're just cruising into a town and you're forced to turn around and zoom in on some guarding yelling "HALT" at you. Never gets old. Of course, this is completely subjective. I can understand how some people could see Skyrim's handling of dialog as more graceful or realistic (because it is).
Quests: the quests were far better in Oblivion, especially the guild quests. The guild quest progession made sense in Oblivion: you're not trusted by the guilds until you complete several quests, in Skyrim there's some loophole that makes you the most important member of each guild immediately. The civil war quest in Skyrim is a big dull timesink (ransack 20+ keeps) with no useful reward. In Oblivion, I actually cared about the characters in the guilds, especially with the Dark Brotherhood. When I was told I had to kill all the Dark Brotherhood NPCS in Oblivion I was actually a tad bit upset. Skyrim never got any sort of emotional reaction out of me except anger at all the retarded PS3 glitches (which deserves its own section).
Glitches: Skyrim's has an abundance of gamebreaking glitches. The game glitches out all the time. I haven't played it in a while so I don't know if it's been patched for the console versions, so forgive me if it has. I actually could not complete Skyrim because one of the main questlines broke during my playthrough. The quest were you have to give all your equipment to this elf guy and go to a Thalmor party yielded an infinite loadscreen (I tried several things to fix this, but eventually had to create a completely new character). I know that Oblivion has it's share of glitches and bugs too, but I never had a game-breaking glitch.
Towns: I haven't seen anyone claim that Skyrim has better towns than Oblivion. Morthal, Winterhold, and Dawnstar are the biggest offenders here. They are absolutely boring and it seems like the devs put no effort into making them (fuck, you could make a better town with the TES quest maker that is bundled with Skyrim/Oblvion, easily). I understand why they're so shitty story-wise, but it still seems lazy to me. Maybe these towns were dumbed down because of the rushed launch of Skyrim? Who knows. Oblivion's towns are all unique and relatively large. Each town feels like it has its own culture and each town has its own unique architecture. Even Kvatch is better than Morthal, Winterhold, and Dawnstar and that is saying something.
I'll get to more later.
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Morrowind? Really? You do realize that that is the game where you can hit someone dead-on and still miss due to dice-rolls right? >_>
Hey nice opinions, dude.
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Morrowind? Really? You do realize that that is the game where you can hit someone dead-on and still miss due to dice-rolls right? >_>
Hey nice opinions, dude.
Would be amusing if it was an opinion to begin with.
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That's enough. This thread is about TESO. I am a Nord dragonknight. Discuss.
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That's enough. This thread is about TESO. I am a Nord dragonknight. Discuss.
Fuck a dark elf.
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Morrowind? Really? You do realize that that is the game where you can hit someone dead-on and still miss due to dice-rolls right? >_>
Hey nice opinions, dude.
Would be amusing if it was an opinion to begin with.
Sure, stat checks are worse than spamming LMB to win in an RPG because hard cold facts yeah :^)
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Morrowind? Really? You do realize that that is the game where you can hit someone dead-on and still miss due to dice-rolls right? >_>
Hey nice opinions, dude.
Would be amusing if it was an opinion to begin with.
Sure, stat checks are worse than spamming LMB to win in an RPG because hard cold facts yeah :^)
Quote what you have a problem with next time. Dice rolls are fact in Morrowind.
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Morrowind? Really? You do realize that that is the game where you can hit someone dead-on and still miss due to dice-rolls right? >_>
Hey nice opinions, dude.
Would be amusing if it was an opinion to begin with.
Sure, stat checks are worse than spamming LMB to win in an RPG because hard cold facts yeah :^)
Quote what you have a problem with next time. Dice rolls are fact in Morrowind.
You're making the implication that dice rolls are a bad thing.
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Dice-rolls in a game with combat that appears action-based is counter intuitive.
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I'm not. I hate Skyrim, as well as every other ES game that came out after Morrowind. Oblivion is just objectively worse.
Towns: I haven't seen anyone claim that Skyrim has better towns than Oblivion. Morthal, Winterhold, and Dawnstar are the biggest offenders here. They are absolutely boring and it seems like the devs put no effort into making them (fuck, you could make a better town with the TES quest maker that is bundled with Skyrim/Oblvion, easily). I understand why they're so shitty story-wise, but it still seems lazy to me. Maybe these towns were dumbed down because of the rushed launch of Skyrim? Who knows. Oblivion's towns are all unique and relatively large. Each town feels like it has its own culture and each town has its own unique architecture. Even Kvatch is better than Morthal, Winterhold, and Dawnstar and that is saying something.
I'll get to more later.
This is the only part I really have a problem with. Of course it's perfectly acceptable to prefer Oblivion. I reluctantly let the game into a special place in my heart a long time ago (I was lying earlier).
Now, on to the hard cold facts. Skyrim has three tiers of settlements: major cities, minor cities, and towns. Oblivion has two: cities and towns. Morthal, Winterhold, and Dawnstar are all minor cities. If you're going to compare settlements, it only makes sense to compare Skyrim's major cities (Solitude, Windhelm, Markarth... you know, the "real" cities) to Oblivion's cities. In that case, I don't know anybody who prefers Oblivion's city design. The cities in Oblivion are basically all just blobs of buildings on a flat plain. In Skyrim, cities are integrated with the environment in more interesting ways. Markarth is carved into a mountainside. Solitude is built on an enormous rock arch by the sea. Riften is a blob of buildings on a flat plain. O wait. Basically, improved technology allowed BGS to realize something closer to what was portrayed in their concept drawings. The concepts for Oblivion cities were great too (Here's (http://i.neoseeker.com/ca/elder_scrolls_iv_oblivion_conceptart_iHlmt.jpg) what Leyawiin could have looked like), but time constraints and unfamiliarity with the hardware they were developing for would prove to be 2serious.
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I don't see how it's action-based at all. In fact, for Morrowind they did a good job of realizing that a system entirely based on pressing the attack button until the opponent falls over does not make for very good action, which is why your success in combat is entirely reliant on character building. For Oblivion and Skyrim they didn't realize that, and also didn't make the necessary improvements to the system to make it seem actually "action-based".
Oblivion still has a fair amount of focus on character building, which is part of the reason why it's better than Skyrim, but in Skyrim it does not matter at all. It's all been replaced by shitty takedown animations.
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Oblivion still has a fair amount of focus on character building, which is part of the reason why it's better than Skyrim, but in Skyrim it does not matter at all. It's all been replaced by shitty takedown animations.
Oh no, you too? What exactly has been replaced by "shitty "takedown" animations"? Those animations only trigger when you've already killed something. They're purely cosmetic and don't affect the course of combat at all. I'm starting to understand that neither of you have spent very much time in either game.
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I mean it's their way of making the game appear more combat-oriented, when no actual changes were made to the combat system. Since the RPG structures underneath the combat are worse in Skyrim, the whole thing is worse as a whole.
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I have done everything in Skyrim for the most part. I have probably 300+ hours of play time in total. I have played the game. Stop trolling.
I will address other points later.
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I mean it's their way of making the game appear more combat-oriented, when no actual changes were made to the combat system. Since the RPG structures underneath the combat are worse in Skyrim, the whole thing is worse as a whole.
In Oblivion, your skill with a weapon, your strength, and your level of fatigue determine how much damage you can deal with that weapon. It works just the same in Skyrim, except the strength attribute is replaced with a set of perks that can be customized. How is this combat system less complex?
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Enchanting allows for less, there's no spellmaking, a lot of stats that in Oblivion and Morrowind would affect how you could approach a given situation are completely removed. Yes, the system for determining damage for a given melee weapon isn't much different (though in previous games you could do stuff like make custom buffs for increasing your efficiency in that category), but Skyrim gives you less options aside from that weapon. Yeah, you get perks and stuff, but overall the way you play the game doesn't really change at all over the course of the game. In Morrowind and Oblivion, you can build your character to be able to leap across mountains or become completely invisible, or other such things that fundamentally change the gameplay experience. In Skyrim you'll be doing the exact same thing you did in the beginning of the game, except you can imagine that super cool 2x modifier you got from a perk.
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And sprint instead of speed.. yeah.
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I consider the combat system and the magic system to be separate, so I was only thinking of conventional ranged and melee weapons. You can still become invisible in Skyrim, although the much more broken chameleon effect is no more. I can see why BGS would want to curtail the more cartoonish aspects of very high level characters, considering the more realistic atmosphere they were trying to create.
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And as a result, it's a less fun game. But this is just my opinion, of course (^:
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Less fun than ~*Morrowind*~, obviously. Try leveling a character in vanilla Oblivion past 20 without focusing exclusively on combat skills and tell us how fun it is.
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Hey, it's just more incentive to abuse all the broken shit. But obviously Morrowind is a much better game than Oblivion, so I'm not gonna argue about it.
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Alex, are you trying to say that Dawnstar (an important town in the Es mythos) is comparable to a town like Hackdirt in Oblivion? That's not flattering.
As for the claim that Morrowind isn't action based. I said "appears" action based. I know the battle system and its more similar to a pen and paper system. However, my personal opinion is that if you hit an enemy with your sword visually it should connect. Oblivion's battle system was not a downgrade, it was an upgrade. In Oblivion, all hits connect if you land them properly. If a monster is stronger than you are its more dangerous to go head to head with them, and spells/archery are utilized instead of a head on approach because it could get you killed. In Morrowind your character could be physically stronger than the opponent and still get shafted because of dice-roll misses. Because of this, Oblivion's combat system is arguably more fun, less punishing, and far more realistic.
Oblivion is not perfect. Morrowind has some advantages gsmeplay wise and depth wise, yes. For example, methods of travel and a lack of fast travel made Morrowind more immersive. Skyrim is the worst out of the three, IMO. Skyrim tried to improve on Oblivion's formula but failed in almost every regard except graphically and visually. I can get takedown cams and dismemberment in Oblivion. That is what mods are for.
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I almost just deleted this entire thread on accident, oops
Also, I wish I'd picked up Morrowind while it was on sale. :[ I really want to play it and be disappointed with how hyped up it's been
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I almost just deleted this entire thread on accident, oops
Also, I wish I'd picked up Morrowind while it was on sale. :[ I really want to play it and be disappointed with how hyped up it's been
The bay is there for a reason.
Less fun than ~*Morrowind*~, obviously. Try leveling a character in vanilla Oblivion past 20 without focusing exclusively on combat skills and tell us how fun it is.
There are numerous ways to play Oblivion as a pacifist or solely as a spellcaster.
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As for the claim that Morrowind isn't action based. I said "appears" action based. I know the battle system and its more similar to a pen and paper system. However, my personal opinion is that if you hit an enemy with your sword visually it should connect. Oblivion's battle system was not a downgrade, it was an upgrade. In Oblivion, all hits connect if you land them properly. If a monster is stronger than you are its more dangerous to go head to head with them, and spells/archery are utilized instead of a head on approach because it could get you killed. In Morrowind your character could be physically stronger than the opponent and still get shafted because of dice-roll misses. Because of this, Oblivion's combat system is arguably more fun, less punishing, and far more realistic.
Meanwhile, hits that do connect cause seemingly no effect on enemies, allowing them to retaliate immediately, and sometimes your hits connect when they visually should not because instead of using weapon hitboxes for hit detection, they use simple range checks. It's curious how out of all the abstractions in Morrowind's combat they only chose to remove one of them for future installments, considering what they were aiming to do.
I almost just deleted this entire thread on accident, oops
Browsing FES on a phone is fucking dangerous, man.
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I'd still sacrifice all of that as long as my hits are supposed to connect when it looks like they should and magic doesn't just flat out fail. Combat is superior in Oblivion, but that doesn't mean I think that Morrowind is a shitty game. Morrowind did a lot right.
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Alex, are you trying to say that Dawnstar (an important town in the Es mythos) is comparable to a town like Hackdirt in Oblivion? That's not flattering.
In-game, yes. Dawnstar is a mid tier settlement, and Hackdirt is the largest low tier settlement, so it makes sense that they're somewhat similar in size.
There are numerous ways to play Oblivion as a pacifist or solely as a spellcaster.
Because of the way the scaling system works, enemies become stronger much quicker than many character builds do. Unless you're aware of how the system works and how to game it, the game becomes almost unplayable at very high levels. This is why most people recommend completing things like the MQ and the Arena questline at level 1.
Also, in Morrowind, once your skill with a particular weapon is around 55 you'll almost never miss as long as you aren't trying to fight while completely fatigued.
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Morrowind's immersion makes it the best. There are a ton of spells in there that don't have any benefit to existing beyond making the world believable, such as locking spells. You can also mix and match any of the armors, your gauntlets, pauldrons, and boots are separate left-right pieces, much like they would be if you were really in the game. Unfortunately, I picked up the treasure box with ES1-5 and couldn't really play Morrowind much because I couldn't get past the paper-plate mask style faces of the NPCs.
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Those over Oblivion potato faces any day though.
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This has actually inspired me to play Oblivion again. It's been quite some time. ESO still sucks.
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I used to be able to kill Umbra at level one. Just tried to play it, Umbra murdered me in one power swing. Either I suck at this game now or she is stronger in the deluxe edition.
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This has actually inspired me to play Oblivion again. It's been quite some time. ESO still sucks.
Enjoy. I love replaying Oblivion. What race are you going for?
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I'm playing it too. I'm a Dunmer.
(http://oi42.tinypic.com/t7le3a.jpg)
With Oblivion Character Overhaul (http://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/43612/) mod for better looking faces.
I see there's a new version. I should update.
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Nice. I like playing as Khajit.
This is what happened last time I played Skyrim. Does this look normal to you?
(http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j429/wintermute0/ScreenShot33.jpg)
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No. It never did.
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I rolled an Imperial Spellsword. Normally I would play as a Dunmer but I couldn't bear to look at those faces again.
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I've said before that Morrowind's biggest flaw isn't the combat, but how clunky, convoluted, and generally just difficult to play it is. And when I say "difficult," I don't mean the positive way that implies challenge and a sense of achievement, but the negative way that implies tedious busy work. The inventory/equipment scene, with its tiny icons and forcing you to drag rather than click, is a nightmare. The journal is an incoherent mess, even after you get the expansion that adds the categorization. And the lack of quest markers is nothing more than a tedious time sink. Yeah, I know that last one is going to be controversial, so I'll elaborate. Finding the quest objectives by way of following simple directions is not more challenging, or somehow more indicative of being a smart, mature player than finding the objectives by way of following quest markers. The only difference is that you're constantly having to stop and check your map/journal.
I don't hate Morrowind. It does do a lot of things very well, and I'm still hoping that at some point way down the line I can get back to playing it. But as far as its cult following goes, I suspect that a lot of that stems more from nostalgia and elitism than the actual merits of the game. No, I'm not accusing anyone here of that; I just mean in general.
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tl;dr: filthy casual
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I've said before that Morrowind's biggest flaw isn't the combat, but how clunky, convoluted, and generally just difficult to play it is.
Oh boy.
And when I say "difficult," I don't mean the positive way that implies challenge and a sense of achievement, but the negative way that implies tedious busy work.
tl;dr
The inventory/equipment scene, with its tiny icons and forcing you to drag rather than click, is a nightmare.
This is a new one. I've never heard a complaint about this specific feature of the UI. The size of the icons depends on your resolution. "Drag rather than click" is a bit misleading, since you don't actually have to hold down the mouse button. You do have to click twice to equip or unequip something. This makes it more difficult to accidentally equip items in a cluttered inventory.
The journal is an incoherent mess, even after you get the expansion that adds the categorization. And the lack of quest markers is nothing more than a tedious time sink. Yeah, I know that last one is going to be controversial, so I'll elaborate. Finding the quest objectives by way of following simple directions is not more challenging, or somehow more indicative of being a smart, mature player than finding the objectives by way of following quest markers.
How is following directions not more challenging than following a quest marker? Your entire complaint seems to be that it's more challenging, except you've used the word tedious instead.
The only difference is that you're constantly having to stop and check your map/journal.
No, that is not the only difference. The most important difference between the two methods is that one makes sense within the game world, and the other is an undisguised game mechanic. Quest markers require less effort from the players and developers. Written directions require you to pay attention to your surroundings and notice landmarks.
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"Could you go fetch my ring for me? I dropped it in a cave."
*magically know the exact location of said cave and ring*
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How is following directions not more challenging than following a quest marker? Your entire complaint seems to be that it's more challenging, except you've used the word tedious instead.
Quest markers require less effort from the players and developers. Written directions require you to pay attention to your surroundings and notice landmarks.
That's just busy work. If you want to be pedantic, then yes, I suppose it is more "challenging" to open up your journal and read "Turn right at this rock," as opposed to simply knowing from the start to turn right at the rock. I just don't think that's the kind of challenge that justifies having the player spend several seconds flipping through their journal, and when you take into account that they're going to have to do it multiple times each quest over dozens of quests, you're looking at a lot of potential tedium and frustration.
The most important difference between the two methods is that one makes sense within the game world, and the other is an undisguised game mechanic.
"Could you go fetch my ring for me? I dropped it in a cave."
*magically know the exact location of said cave and ring*
What if the quest givers had lines like "Here, let me mark that on your map for you"? Would that make it okay?
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How is following directions not more challenging than following a quest marker? Your entire complaint seems to be that it's more challenging, except you've used the word tedious instead.
Quest markers require less effort from the players and developers. Written directions require you to pay attention to your surroundings and notice landmarks.
That's just busy work. If you want to be pedantic, then yes, I suppose it is more "challenging" to open up your journal and read "Turn right at this rock," as opposed to simply knowing from the start to turn right at the rock. I just don't think that's the kind of challenge that justifies having the player spend several seconds flipping through their journal, and when you take into account that they're going to have to do it multiple times each quest over dozens of quests, you're looking at a lot of potential tedium and frustration.
Then we'll just have to disagree to disagree. I think a method of directing the player that is actually integrated with the game world is worth a few seconds of reading. I should clarify that this isn't something that needs to be done multiple times for each quest. Most quests in the game either don't require directions or only require very simple directions like "travel to this inn". Those quests that do require instructions for navigation only have you follow the directions once.
What if the quest givers had lines like "Here, let me mark that on your map for you"? Would that make it okay?
Sometimes they do. I'm not sure why that would change my opinion of the quest marker.
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Wouldn't that explain how you know where to go, rather than having to follow a set of directions? I agree that when you're inside a dungeon, having a marker is kind of silly, but I don't think it's a big stretch to be able to mark down on your map where you're going in the overworld.
Also, Morrowind in TESO is quite accurate to the lore and its prior depiction. I mean, Vvardenfell itself isn't available to explore, and if it ever is, it probably won't match up topographically to Morrowind, but I have no complaints about how the mainland looks or how the inhabitants act. The Dunmer talk about the Tribunal and complain about their new allies all the time.
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Quest markers are an invaluable addition to any RPG. Yes its more "real" to not have them but since you can't ask for directions or ask for more specific directions or clarification then it turns into a game of geographical hide an seek.
Imagine if you were told to go to a location you'd never been to before and all you had was "its on the northern side of the cliffs. You'll know it from the rock that looks like a wolf if you look at it just the right way". It would SUCK!
And its not like you can ask him questions like " is it closer to the bridge or the town?".
So OK they put a giant mark on the map. Great... So now you have to make sure to look at the map all the time to figure out if you're going the right way. But unlike real maps, game maps may not be visible while walking.
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I can see both sides of the quest marker argument. Morrowind's quest system seemingly adds depth and immersion, but it is also far more tedious than Oblivion's (I won't even get into Skyrim's). However, I have played a good bit of Morrowind (never beat it, but spent about 70 hours in it) and the journal system, while annoying, isn't too bad. Like Alex mentioned, you don't really need to refer back to your journal that often because its easy to understand exactly where you need to go. I rarely got completely lost in Morrowind, but I did get side-tracked and off-the-beaten-path several times because of a lack of quest markers. Getting lost isn't necessarily a bad thing in a game like Morrowind, because I would often run into other things to do that I wouldn't have discovered otherwise.
The journal itself in Morrowind is a huge problem though. I hated having to go through pages of fluff just to find out what to do for a quest that I picked up several hours earlier. I am willing to put up with it though, because it does add to the immersion and depth to the game. Realistically, quest markers aren't going to appear on the over world. It makes sense that you'd have to record all your thoughts and tasks in a journal instead of a sci-fi looking menu (talking about Skyrim). Oblivion does it better than Skyrim, since it meshes Morrowind's journal system with newer concepts (like markers). Realism is pretentious and overrated in video games, however. Morrowind is an RPG, the G stands for game. Not everything needs to be realistic. Quest markers and a less messy journal system would have improved Morrowind in the long run: making it more accessible and less intimidating.
All this talk about Morrowind is making me want to play it again. But I'd have to settle for the original xbox game-of-the-year version because I don't have a working computer right now. I like the Xbox version, but the load times are ridiculous (understatement).
Every time I try to play Morrowind I noob it up and end up dying a lot due to whiffs and magic failure. Is there a build that I should focus on that is easier for beginners to pick up and play? I like playing as Red Mage-esque characters (jack of all trades).
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Wouldn't that explain how you know where to go, rather than having to follow a set of directions? I agree that when you're inside a dungeon, having a marker is kind of silly, but I don't think it's a big stretch to be able to mark down on your map where you're going in the overworld.
That wouldn't explain why there's a quest marker attached to your objective.
Imagine if you were told to go to a location you'd never been to before and all you had was "its on the northern side of the cliffs. You'll know it from the rock that looks like a wolf if you look at it just the right way". It would SUCK!
And its not like you can ask him questions like " is it closer to the bridge or the town?".
I don't need to imagine, because there are games (that don't suck) that use this system. When the directions are well written, it works perfectly.
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So OK they put a giant mark on the map. Great... So now you have to make sure to look at the map all the time to figure out if you're going the right way. But unlike real maps, game maps may not be visible while walking.
Arma allows you to use maps while moving in a really realistic fashion. But it's a military sim, so..
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16:13 Saddam On the notion of Ashlanders
16:13 beardo Have you offended any yet?
16:14 beardo Have you been challenged yet?
16:15 Saddam [One of them] just ran up to me and asked me to help his tribe
16:15 beardo An Ashlander asking a Nord for help.
16:15 Saddam Yes
16:15 beardo He must be desperate
16:16 beardo Also, why are Ashlanders on the mainland?
16:16 Saddam I have to help the wise woman of his tribe convince the war chieftain to stop attacking a Tribunal temple
16:16 Saddam That's not a bad story for a quest
16:16 beardo how's your speechcraft?
16:16 Saddam But they could have begun it in a more...realistic fashion
16:17 Saddam Speech is not a skill in this game
16:17 Saddam I don't think it is, anyway
16:17 beardo not playing
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16:13 Saddam On the notion of Ashlanders
16:13 beardo Have you offended any yet?
16:14 beardo Have you been challenged yet?
16:15 Saddam [One of them] just ran up to me and asked me to help his tribe
16:15 beardo An Ashlander asking a Nord for help.
16:15 Saddam Yes
16:15 beardo He must be desperate
16:16 beardo Also, why are Ashlanders on the mainland?
16:16 Saddam I have to help the wise woman of his tribe convince the war chieftain to stop attacking a Tribunal temple
16:16 Saddam That's not a bad story for a quest
16:16 beardo how's your speechcraft?
16:16 Saddam But they could have begun it in a more...realistic fashion
16:17 Saddam Speech is not a skill in this game
16:17 Saddam I don't think it is, anyway
16:17 beardo not playing
Its a perk, you have to mages guild to get.
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Yes, there's the "Persuade NPCs" perk, and the Fighters Guild skill line has the "Intimidate NPCs" perk, but they don't make up a skill in and of themselves.
I can't stand the way that the quests/activities/enemies of similar levels are all lumped together in the same zones. You're supposed to toughen yourself up in the noob zone, and then you can move on to the next zone that has slightly higher-level content, and once you're powerful enough you move on to yet another zone, and so on. It's ridiculous. I'm already sick of Morrowind, but I can't go to Skyrim because I'll get slaughtered by the enemies along the way. And even if I did make it there, I wouldn't be able to do anything because all the content there would be high-level. Apparently everything and everyone in Skyrim is just way more powerful than everything and everyone in Morrowind. Bet you didn't realize that while playing their respective games.
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I can't stand the way that the quests/activities/enemies of similar levels are all lumped together in the same zones. You're supposed to toughen yourself up in the noob zone, and then you can move on to the next zone that has slightly higher-level content, and once you're powerful enough you move on to yet another zone, and so on. It's ridiculous. I'm already sick of Morrowind, but I can't go to Skyrim because I'll get slaughtered by the enemies along the way. And even if I did make it there, I wouldn't be able to do anything because all the content there would be high-level. Apparently everything and everyone in Skyrim is just way more powerful than everything and everyone in Morrowind. Bet you didn't realize that while playing their respective games.
It's almost as if gameplay trumps lore or something. If ESO implemented what you're suggesting the game would be a clusterfuck.
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I can't stand the way that the quests/activities/enemies of similar levels are all lumped together in the same zones. You're supposed to toughen yourself up in the noob zone, and then you can move on to the next zone that has slightly higher-level content, and once you're powerful enough you move on to yet another zone, and so on. It's ridiculous. I'm already sick of Morrowind, but I can't go to Skyrim because I'll get slaughtered by the enemies along the way. And even if I did make it there, I wouldn't be able to do anything because all the content there would be high-level. Apparently everything and everyone in Skyrim is just way more powerful than everything and everyone in Morrowind. Bet you didn't realize that while playing their respective games.
So then what happens if you roll a Nord? Do you NOT start in Skyrim?
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I can't stand the way that the quests/activities/enemies of similar levels are all lumped together in the same zones. You're supposed to toughen yourself up in the noob zone, and then you can move on to the next zone that has slightly higher-level content, and once you're powerful enough you move on to yet another zone, and so on. It's ridiculous. I'm already sick of Morrowind, but I can't go to Skyrim because I'll get slaughtered by the enemies along the way. And even if I did make it there, I wouldn't be able to do anything because all the content there would be high-level. Apparently everything and everyone in Skyrim is just way more powerful than everything and everyone in Morrowind. Bet you didn't realize that while playing their respective games.
It's almost as if gameplay trumps lore or something. If ESO implemented what you're suggesting the game would be a clusterfuck.
What Saddam is describing isn't good lore or gameplay. He also didn't suggest anything.
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Saddam, you're playing a fucking MMO. This is like going to a brothel and complaining about all the sex.
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No it isn't. Not all MMOs adhere to the theme park model. This is a bit more like complaining that all of the workers in a brothel have HIV and they're dead. If any IP deserved a sandbox MMO, it was ES.
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Most do. ESO wasn't created to be groundbreaking, it was created to be a cash cow.
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That doesn't seem like a very good reason to not complain about the game. In fact, that seems like an excellent reason to complain.
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Complaining about such a thing is dumb. It reminds of the "old man yells at cloud" Simpsons image. Such a feature cannot be changed after the game is released, because the game would have been built around it. At no stage of development did they hint at ESO being different from other MMO's in this regard either.
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Complaining about such a thing is dumb. It reminds of the "old man yells at cloud" Simpsons image. Such a feature cannot be changed after the game is released, because the game would have been built around it. At no stage of development did they hint at ESO being different from other MMO's in this regard either.
Many people are complaining because the game is just fundamentally flawed beyond repair, not because they think the game can be fixed. Obviously, Zenimax Online should know that people feel this way. Videogames aren't like the weather. They're made by people who are influenced by criticism.
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If you believe Zenimax are going to redesign the way leveling works in their brand new MMO, then go ahead and complain all you want. I don't necessarily think the theme park design is a bad thing, either. Not that I've played ESO to see what they do with it.
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If you believe Zenimax are going to redesign the way leveling works in their brand new MMO, then go ahead and complain all you want. I don't necessarily think the theme park design is a bad thing, either. Not that I've played ESO to see what they do with it.
No. Zenimax are not the only ones who will react to ESO's poor reception. The entire industry reacts when a high profile game does poorly.
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If you believe Zenimax are going to redesign the way leveling works in their brand new MMO, then go ahead and complain all you want. I don't necessarily think the theme park design is a bad thing, either. Not that I've played ESO to see what they do with it.
No. Zenimax are not the only ones who will react to ESO's poor reception. The entire industry reacts when a high profile game does poorly.
I'm sure that's going to make a difference. How many MMO's has WoW slain now? How many continue to try and jump on the gravy train while making 0 changes to the format?
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If you believe Zenimax are going to redesign the way leveling works in their brand new MMO, then go ahead and complain all you want. I don't necessarily think the theme park design is a bad thing, either. Not that I've played ESO to see what they do with it.
No. Zenimax are not the only ones who will react to ESO's poor reception. The entire industry reacts when a high profile game does poorly.
I'm sure that's going to make a difference. How many MMO's has WoW slain now? How many continue to try and jump on the gravy train while making 0 changes to the format?
You're right. Life is hopeless. We should all stop complaining and just quietly play shitty videogames until we die alone at our desks.
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Just saying. MMO's are big business, and big production groups in video games are almost all run by greedy fucks. They're rarely game designers, they don't really care to do anything new or interesting. They just want millions of people shelling out $15/month. It never happens, but that hasn't stopped a single MMO, big budget or otherwise, from being developed in the last 10 years. If you pick an MMO up you probably know what you're getting into, so complaining about fundamental mechanics in them is beyond pointless.
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No it isn't. Trends change. They change because of feedback. MMOs won't be the same until the end of time.
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Of course MMO's change, even though they're probably the most stagnant genre out there besides big budget FPS games. But using zones as a means of level progression is probably here to stay, at least for a long time. It's not just exclusive to MMO's, but RPG's in general.
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It's almost as if gameplay trumps lore or something. If ESO implemented what you're suggesting the game would be a clusterfuck.
Did I suggest anything? I don't know if there's a good way to balance an MMO-style leveling system with the sense of freedom that ES games ought to have, but it would have been nice to see ZeniMax at least try and take a chance with a new kind of system.
So then what happens if you roll a Nord? Do you NOT start in Skyrim?
Well, I am playing as a Nord. Everyone in the Ebonheart Pact starts in Morrowind, just like the other two factions have their own single starting points. Honestly, it's kind of justified in that you simply wash up there after escaping from Coldharbour.
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So then what happens if you roll a Nord? Do you NOT start in Skyrim?
Well, I am playing as a Nord. Everyone in the Ebonheart Pact starts in Morrowind, just like the other two factions have their own single starting points. Honestly, it's kind of justified in that you simply wash up there after escaping from Coldharbour.
Oh right, I forgot this is the "escape from being dead" stuff.
Still, even WoW had each city surrounded by low level areas. And as a level one you could technically make it to most allied starting cities.
And its not like Skyrim is small. Its easy enough to divide each area into easy, medium, hard. (Like skyrim and oblivion did). Just means that you would travel between the countries often.
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That's not what Skyrim and Oblivion did. They leveled the enemies alongside the player.
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That's not what Skyrim and Oblivion did. They leveled the enemies alongside the player.
*reads up on it*
Yeah OK. Didn't notice it I guess.
This can't work in an MMO, though, unless you instance level ranges.
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Guild Wars 2 has a scaling system.
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Guild Wars 2 has a scaling system.
l
Guild Wars 2 sounds really interesting. The first Guild Wars was meh though, imo.
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Is GW2 the game where halfway through the main story, some boring guy shows up and then all of a sudden, he's the one that everyone treats as the main hero, not the player?
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Yes.
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(http://i.imgur.com/rpaBKJ8.jpg)
This is what he looks like. He's a fucking plant.
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Clearly, ESO isn't the only MMO to suffer from a lackluster main story. Why do MMOs feel the need to have main stories, anyway? I was talking about this with a couple of people on IRC the other day, and it really just seems antithetical to the entire concept of MMOs, especially ones with subscription fees. When you tell players that they've beaten the game, it's not such a huge stretch for them to then conclude that they're done with the game. Even setting aside the fact that the main story in ESO is just an uninspired rehash of Oblivion, the fact is that the game didn't need a main story to begin with. Not with all the stuff they could have put into the game in its place. Things like the Thieves Guild, the Dark Brotherhood, the Companions, the Morag Tong, the rest of the fucking map, etc.
And before anyone starts with the "But Saddam, you're practically complaining about the weather here; the laws of physics literally state that all MMOs must do these dumb things" or whatever, there already have been some exceptions. There's RuneScape, for one. Don't laugh, I'm being quite serious. Granted, there's a lot that game did that was really weird, and the main reason I quit playing it some years ago was that Jagex was basically just fucking it up, homogenizing it, "fixing" things that weren't broken, replacing their old animations and art styles with terrible cartoony clichés, all that awful stuff - so it's quite possible that the game is currently shit. But it didn't hit you over the head with a stupid overarching story when you began playing, and it didn't force you to linearly travel between zones completing all the content as you went. Most of the regions of the world were available to low-level players, and they all had their fair share of low, middle, and high-level content for players to partake in. If you were bored with one area, you could - wait for it - go to another area, and still continue to progress normally. I know, it's mind-blowing.
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It seems to me that they could have easily just had the story be "You just escaped from the afterlife/Oblivion/whatever along with a whole bunch of other souls. You and your fellow souls are now the only ones who can enter Oblivion and stop whatever plot is afoot."
Then just have raids be "you've slowed down the Daedra and bought Tamriel a little more time."
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Main stories are counter intuitive to an MMO with the goal being "get the player to play for a long time", yes. However, I think there is demand for story and no one has figured out how to make a good story without it being an episodic adventure. I think they think because all games have one they would fail without it. I'd like a rich gameworld with lots of lore where you're not the main character or integral to the main story of the game. It would be cool to see the world changing around you without any sort of input from yourself, but that would be impossible for an mmo.
I am a little drunk.
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Main stories are counter intuitive to an MMO with the goal being "get the player to play for a long time", yes. However, I think there is demand for story and no one has figured out how to make a good story without it being an episodic adventure. I think they think because all games have one they would fail without it. I'd like a rich gameworld with lots of lore where you're not the main character or integral to the main story of the game. It would be cool to see the world changing around you without any sort of input from yourself, but that would be impossible for an mmo.
I am a little drunk.
Most war MMOs work that way. You're a solider and you just fight.
EVE is like that too.
Fantasy style MMOs, however, demand story. The key is to make the story vague and unending enough that while you don't "save the day" you do at least help.
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I havent played much of Eve due to how demanding it is, but from what I have played and what I have read about it: it seems like an amazing MMO. The immersion alone is a selling point for me.
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I havent played much of Eve due to how demanding it is, but from what I have played and what I have read about it: it seems like an amazing MMO. The immersion alone is a selling point for me.
That's part of why I don't like it.
It's so immersive it's more like a second life than a fun adventure.
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I feel the same way. I like the idea of it a lot but its too demanding for me to continually play it to make even the slightest progress.
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Is GW2 the game where halfway through the main story, some boring guy shows up and then all of a sudden, he's the one that everyone treats as the main hero, not the player?
Yeah, but what's that got to do with its scaling system?
A lot of people hate Trahearne, I don't really mind him. He's a fairly bland mary sue, but the first half of the personal story is so good I can forgive the writers for fucking that up. And the conclusion to the story is pretty cool as well. Season 2 living story has nothing to do with him or The Pact, but instead much more interesting characters with personalities, so it should be good.
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I was never bothered by him. But my friends thinks he's meh.
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Yeah, but what's that got to do with its scaling system?
Nothing at all, it was just something I recalled hearing a lot of people complaining about. Other complaints included his potted plant design and boring text-to-speech program voice.
And speaking of annoying voices, man, I really hate Jennifer Hale. I hate to say this because it sounds incredibly sexist, but there's something about her voice that just sounds so bossy, so bitchy, so nagging, that it's a pain to listen to. And of course, it is simply her voice that I'm criticizing, not her specific performance, because she never gives a specific performance. She never changes her voice, never changes her accent, no, it's always the one-voice-fits-all-roles from her. I'm sure she's a nice lady in real life and all, but I'm not a fan of how ubiquitous she is in video games.
The other major voice actors are better. I've only seen John Cleese and Alfred Molina briefly so far, but they seem to do all right. And Michael Gambon is great as the Prophet. Yes, even when he talks about how I and I alone am the Chosen One who is destined to save Tamriel. To be fair, that's believable because the main quest is fully instanced, which is a very, very good thing. If the way it worked was that a bunch of other people were standing around while the Prophet told me how special I was, I wouldn't bother wasting my time on the main quest.
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But saddam, I never received that quest. You are literally the only person in ESO with the save the world quest. You are special.
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I am the canonical hero of this game.
Also, they've taken a fairly casual approach to time travel. I've already warped into the past twice, and both times it was only after completing a standard "get me five of these" MMO quest. I seem to recall in Skyrim that time travel was kind of a big deal - it required an Elder Scroll, and it wasn't even so much time travel as it was simply viewing what happened in the past. If only the Dragonborn had known a Telvanni mage, he could have saved himself a lot of work.
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I am the canonical hero of this game.
Also, they've taken a fairly casual approach to time travel. I've already warped into the past twice, and both times it was only after completing a standard "get me five of these" MMO quest. I seem to recall in Skyrim that time travel was kind of a big deal - it required an Elder Scroll, and it wasn't even so much time travel as it was simply viewing what happened in the past. If only the Dragonborn had known a Telvanni mage, he could have saved himself a lot of work.
Hundreds of people going back and forth in time later made Akatosh angry and he fixed it by the time later TES games occurred. There, your lore lore lore has been saved.
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If only the Dragonborn had known a Telvanni mage
But he does.
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Hundreds of people going back and forth in time later made Akatosh angry and he fixed it by the time later TES games occurred. There, your lore lore lore has been saved.
Fanwanking to the rescue!
If only the Dragonborn had known a Telvanni mage
But he does.
Chronologically, the DLC seems to come after the events of the main story.
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Hehhehehe
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I forgot about this shit man does it still suck ass like all MMOs you nerdy ass mofos
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I forgot about this shit man does it still suck ass like all MMOs you nerdy ass mofos
Some elements of it suck pretty hard. Others are surprisingly good.
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(http://i.imgur.com/9aSGVh0.png)
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Is Ganon a pig?
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Is Ganon a pig?
Yes, he's pretty much a pig demon.
Do you have a problem with that?
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No.
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Good. Bitch.
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Good. Bitch.
I resent this remark.
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I forgot about this shit man does it still suck ass like all MMOs you nerdy ass mofos
Some elements of it suck pretty hard. Others are surprisingly good.
What is surprisingly good?
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I forgot about this shit man does it still suck ass like all MMOs you nerdy ass mofos
Some elements of it suck pretty hard. Others are surprisingly good.
What is surprisingly good?
You can put a beer belly on your character.
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Hey, Vauxy, remember when Diego was complaining about how Oblivion sucked because of minor lore deviations from prior games? And then it turned out that a lot of what he was saying wasn't actually true.
I demand this question be answered! Here's the thread in question:
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=12855.0
That's a blast from the past. It's blowing my mind. I don't even remember typing any of that. But I still stand by my younger words, and yes... I cheated a lot.
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I forgot about this shit man does it still suck ass like all MMOs you nerdy ass mofos
Some elements of it suck pretty hard. Others are surprisingly good.
What is surprisingly good?
I like the quests. Even though most of them do fit the basic MMO format, they incorporate the lore and setting in ways that help make it feel like it's a genuine Elder Scrolls game. So, to use the "bear asses" example, instead of getting a quest like "These bears are annoying me, could you kill five of them and bring me their asses?" you get something like "Ashlander shamans have cast a spell on the surrounding wildlife and have driven the bears into a mad killing frenzy! If you can gather five bear asses and bring them to me, we can perform a ritual to dispel the magic!" And then that might lead to another quest where you confront these Ashlander shamans, and so on. Obviously, that's not a real quest; there are no bears in Morrowind. That's just the general way they dress these quests up.
The combat is interesting, and actually quite challenging. Timing, blocking, and countering are a lot more important than they were in previous titles, and you have to juggle your special abilities, knowing when to use which ones against which kinds of enemies and whatnot. Speaking of special abilities, that's what your class governs, and yeah, I really like the class system. Your special abilities are of course important, but you're still free to wear whatever armor and use whatever weapons you like, just like in any other ES title. It's exactly the kind of balancing between the traditional ES format and the usual MMO format that I was talking about earlier. I wish they could have done something similar with other aspects of the game, like the dopey zone-to-zone theme park style.
Also, there is lore. lore lore lore
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Sounds like GW2 is better.
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I like the quests. Even though most of them do fit the basic MMO format, they incorporate the lore and setting in ways that help make it feel like it's a genuine Elder Scrolls game. So, to use the "bear asses" example, instead of getting a quest like "These bears are annoying me, could you kill five of them and bring me their asses?" you get something like "Ashlander shamans have cast a spell on the surrounding wildlife and have driven the bears into a mad killing frenzy! If you can gather five bear asses and bring them to me, we can perform a ritual to dispel the magic!" And then that might lead to another quest where you confront these Ashlander shamans, and so on. Obviously, that's not a real quest; there are no bears in Morrowind. That's just the general way they dress these quests up.
The combat is interesting, and actually quite challenging. Timing, blocking, and countering are a lot more important than they were in previous titles, and you have to juggle your special abilities, knowing when to use which ones against which kinds of enemies and whatnot. Speaking of special abilities, that's what your class governs, and yeah, I really like the class system. Your special abilities are of course important, but you're still free to wear whatever armor and use whatever weapons you like, just like in any other ES title. It's exactly the kind of balancing between the traditional ES format and the usual MMO format that I was talking about earlier. I wish they could have done something similar with other aspects of the game, like the dopey zone-to-zone theme park style.
Also, there is lore. lore lore lore
Generic MMO is generic. From what I've played and what you said, ESO is really just World of Warcraft Elder Scrolls.
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Go here. Kill these. Bring me their asses. Add lore and you still have a really generic MMO formula.
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Sounds like GW2 is better.
TESO's dialogue screens and character designs are better, so there.
I don't know, GW2 has some bloody beautiful dialogue screens.
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I'm tempted to try ESO for a month. Too bad it costs 200 dollars. How did you get it cheepy cheepy Saddam?
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I didn't really get it cheap. Green Man Gaming was offering a 25% discount one day, and I bought it on impulse.
I made it to Mournhold! It doesn't really look like it did in Tribunal. And Almalexia is absolutely nothing like she was in Tribunal.
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A lot can change in 1000+ years.
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800 years.
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k
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lol. Alexandyr got a lore thing wrong.
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lol, lore nerds
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I don't even care. I would probably have known that if I weren't so busy getting laid all the time. :-B
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Getting laid? What a loser.
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It's possible to complete some quests out of order, and then it clashes with the overall storyline and stuff doesn't make sense later! I helped out this Morag Tong lady on a quest, but I was supposed to do some other lower-level quest first, and now I'm being introduced to the Morag Tong lady like we've never met before. Stop being such a theme park, game!
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It's possible to complete some quests out of order, and then it clashes with the overall storyline and stuff doesn't make sense later! I helped out this Morag Tong lady on a quest, but I was supposed to do some other lower-level quest first, and now I'm being introduced to the Morag Tong lady like we've never met before. Stop being such a theme park, game!
Making a game that detects other quest completion dynamically is labor intensive and making one quest require another is obnoxious from a gameplay perspective. I'm not really sure what you're expecting, Saddam. It's almost like you expected something that isn't an MMO and are now perturbed that you're playing an MMO.
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It's possible to complete some quests out of order, and then it clashes with the overall storyline and stuff doesn't make sense later! I helped out this Morag Tong lady on a quest, but I was supposed to do some other lower-level quest first, and now I'm being introduced to the Morag Tong lady like we've never met before. Stop being such a theme park, game!
Making a game that detects other quest completion dynamically is labor intensive and making one quest require another is obnoxious from a gameplay perspective. I'm not really sure what you're expecting, Saddam. It's almost like you expected something that isn't an MMO and are now perturbed that you're playing an MMO.
Or just skip the introduction.
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Making a game that detects other quest completion dynamically is labor intensive and making one quest require another is obnoxious from a gameplay perspective.
if quest1.complete:
quest2.run()
Pretty sure game coders have been doing this for a few years. If not, the above is proprietary software and may not be duplicated, copied, shared, looked at or read out loud.
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It's possible to complete some quests out of order, and then it clashes with the overall storyline and stuff doesn't make sense later! I helped out this Morag Tong lady on a quest, but I was supposed to do some other lower-level quest first, and now I'm being introduced to the Morag Tong lady like we've never met before. Stop being such a theme park, game!
Making a game that detects other quest completion dynamically is labor intensive and making one quest require another is obnoxious from a gameplay perspective. I'm not really sure what you're expecting, Saddam. It's almost like you expected something that isn't an MMO and are now perturbed that you're playing an MMO.
Saddam whinging about this being an MMO seems to be the running theme.
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Making a game that detects other quest completion dynamically is labor intensive and making one quest require another is obnoxious from a gameplay perspective...
And therefore, they had no choice but to make a good chunk of the quests in the game be part of a very long, very linear overarching storyline where it's easy to inadvertently skip ahead in the story if you go wandering. Okay, it all makes sense now.
I remember back on the old site some people were discussing how exactly travel to and from Cyrodiil would be handled, seeing how they wouldn't be allowing people to travel into territories not controlled by their faction. Well, here's how it works. You bring up the multiplayer menu, select a campaign...and then you vanish and reappear in Cyrodiil. Just like that. They don't even bother handwaving it away as you teleporting there. It's a game mechanic that they simply did not bother integrating with the story. And before anyone starts, no, this is not a quirk inherent to MMOs and impossible to handle well.
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That's fucking atrocious.
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I remember back on the old site some people were discussing how exactly travel to and from Cyrodiil would be handled, seeing how they wouldn't be allowing people to travel into territories not controlled by their faction. Well, here's how they handle it. You bring up the multiplayer menu, select a campaign...and then you vanish and reappear in Cyrodiil. Just like that. They don't even bother handwaving it away as you teleporting there. It's a game mechanic that they simply did not bother integrating with the story. And before anyone starts, no, this is not a quirk inherent to MMOs and impossible to handle well.
I'm not sure how I should judge this as I'm not familiar with how the game works. Why is this a bad thing?
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Did your nan create this game, Vindictus? Why are you unwilling to admit that it's at all flawed?
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huh what? I've been bagging this game since the thread was created on the old forums. I just think some of Saddam's whinging is funny because it's so redundant.
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I remember back on the old site some people were discussing how exactly travel to and from Cyrodiil would be handled, seeing how they wouldn't be allowing people to travel into territories not controlled by their faction. Well, here's how they handle it. You bring up the multiplayer menu, select a campaign...and then you vanish and reappear in Cyrodiil. Just like that. They don't even bother handwaving it away as you teleporting there. It's a game mechanic that they simply did not bother integrating with the story. And before anyone starts, no, this is not a quirk inherent to MMOs and impossible to handle well.
So you teleport to what? A clusterfuck PVP battle between three teams?
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I'm not sure how I should judge this as I'm not familiar with how the game works. Why is this a bad thing?
It hurts immersion. This isn't an FPS where you can just switch between campaign and multiplayer; it's an RPG, and you're playing as the same character in both PvE and PvP. They shouldn't be treating it as a completely different setting that requires no transition whatsoever.
The PvP itself is quite confusing, and strangely enough, I have yet to see any, well, PvP in it. Just some incredibly overpowered NPCs and monsters. Also, I'm not sure how much of this is due to the quirks of the PvP area itself and how much of it is due to the fact that my alliance happens to be sucking a big one in this campaign and we only control a couple of bases, but there are only a couple of wayshrines available for teleporting to, which basically means I have to travel across Cyrodiil on foot, and whenever I die, I respawn on the very edge of the map where my bases are. It's every bit as tedious and frustrating as it sounds. The only thing of note I managed to do was find Cheydinhal and complete a few quests there.
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Sounds like GW2 does massive scale PvP better as well. They didn't even bother with a real lore explanation for PvP, they just made some islands completely separate to the main map (but still on it) for everyone to fight on.
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Perhaps they think of it as fast travel, just like how you can fast travel to discovered wayshrines in the PvE area (I assume you actually can do that).
But they really should have done it so you'd have to use a horse wagon or a portal, or at least use the map for fast travel and not through the fucking game menus.
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Perhaps they think of it as fast travel, just like how you can fast travel to discovered wayshrines in the PvE area (I assume you actually can do that).
Actually, you teleport to them. It even shows you briefly casting a spell or something if you aren't currently at a wayshrine.
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Okay.
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Making a game that detects other quest completion dynamically is labor intensive and making one quest require another is obnoxious from a gameplay perspective.
if quest1.complete:
quest2.run()
Pretty sure game coders have been doing this for a few years. If not, the above is proprietary software and may not be duplicated, copied, shared, looked at or read out loud.
m8 you'd need a loop there somewhere, otherwise it wouldn't be dynamic, duh.
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On a more positive note, the UI in this game is quite good, both in terms of it being an MMO and an Elder Scrolls title. There's no minimap or annoying white text floating above other players' heads cluttering up your line of sight, just a compass system that's almost identical to the one in Skyrim, with a little caption directly underneath the compass that tells you the name of whatever person or place you're looking at. That adds a lot to immersion. As for your map, equipment, quest log, skills, etc., that's all handled with separate screens, every one of which makes use of the ample space it has to clearly convey information, goes for simplicity over pretty visuals, and uses some categorization to save you from spending most of your time scrolling through enormous lists. And to top it off, the map is actually a map, not a weird 3D GPS thing like in Skyrim.
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According to this (http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=15787), I might be able to join you guys soon.
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Oh, this thing costs money. I don't even know if it will work, so I'm reluctant to spend anything until I do.
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Alas, there is no we, only me.
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Alas, there is no we, only me.
Oh, I saw beardo saying "I'm playing it too", but I just realised that people were talking about other games in a TESO thread for some reason.
Given the abundance of reviews on WineHQ which say it works extremely well on Linux, I'm tempted to take the risk and buy it. What do you think, sadaam?
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They won't have a customer in me until they drop the monthly subscription.
i.e. never.
(okay, if the base price ever gets cheaper somewhere, I might consider trying it out for a month. One month).
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Now, on to the hard cold facts. Skyrim has three tiers of settlements: major cities, minor cities, and towns. Oblivion has two: cities and towns. Morthal, Winterhold, and Dawnstar are all minor cities. If you're going to compare settlements, it only makes sense to compare Skyrim's major cities (Solitude, Windhelm, Markarth... you know, the "real" cities) to Oblivion's cities. In that case, I don't know anybody who prefers Oblivion's city design. The cities in Oblivion are basically all just blobs of buildings on a flat plain. In Skyrim, cities are integrated with the environment in more interesting ways. Markarth is carved into a mountainside. Solitude is built on an enormous rock arch by the sea. Riften is a blob of buildings on a flat plain. O wait. Basically, improved technology allowed BGS to realize something closer to what was portrayed in their concept drawings. The concepts for Oblivion cities were great too (Here's (http://i.neoseeker.com/ca/elder_scrolls_iv_oblivion_conceptart_iHlmt.jpg) what Leyawiin could have looked like), but time constraints and unfamiliarity with the hardware they were developing for would prove to be 2serious.
Was that a joke? Half of Riften is built on that intricate dock structure. Regardless, your overall point is sound and these are wise words. And let's not forget Windhelm, where the harsh weather combined with the tight design and narrow roads gives off that wonderfully tense, claustrophobic vibe. The only major city in the game that really has a generic design is Whiterun, and that's somewhat justified in that it's kind of the main hub of the game, as well as most likely your first major city.
I'm in Black Marsh! It's full of disgruntled former slaves and crocodiles and Ayleid ruins and so much more.
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I really just meant to concede that Riften is kind of boring compared to the other two I listed, but yeah, it's still much better than anything in Oboringvion.
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<Saddam> beardo: Windhelm
<Saddam> I am there
<beardo> No you're not.
<Saddam> I am too
<beardo> I say, that is not Windhelm.
<Saddam> It is
<Saddam> It is labeled on my map as Windhelm
<beardo> It is what Zenimax calls Windhelm, but Windhelm it is not.
<Saddam> The locals refer to it as Windhelm
<Saddam> It occupies the same place on the map as Windhelm
<beardo> It doesn't look like Windhelm, ergo, it's not Windhelm.
<Saddam> In all seriousness, yeah, the reshuffling of the city is pretty bad
<Saddam> I don't mind them expanding it in terms of size, but the layout is all wrong
<Saddam> At least Riften still followed the basic layout it had in Skyrim
<beardo> Then there are people who likes to point out "But this is what the city is supposed to look like! They just couldn't do it in Skyrim's engine!"
<Saddam> Who said that?
<beardo> I don't remember where I read it
<Saddam> And I'm pretty sure that Skyrim's engine was capable of a lot more than this game's
<beardo> It wasn't in those exact words either
<Saddam> At least in terms of location design
<beardo> Well, mayb it was something like that consoles couldn't handle the size or something
<beardo> because that's probably true
<Saddam> But TESO will also be coming out on consoles
<beardo> Yes, but TESO looks worse than Skyrim
<beardo> And it's also a completely different engine
<beardo> It's made to allow pic places with many many character and NPC's. Skyrim's engine isn't.
<beardo> big*
<beardo> A modern computer can probably handle it. But not a xbox360 or ps3
<Saddam> I'm seeing a lot of empty space here
<Saddam> And this game is hardly demanding on hardware
<Saddam> You could run it on any shitty laptop
<beardo> They've made the graphics look worse so that they can make consoles handle the large areas with many characters on screen.
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<beardo> They've made the graphics look worse so that they can make consoles handle the large areas with many characters on screen.
Which caused less players to play it.
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<beardo> They've made the graphics look worse so that they can make consoles handle the large areas with many characters on screen.
Which caused less players to play it.
I would think that making your game less graphically intensive so that people with low-powered PCs can play it would cause more people to play?
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<beardo> They've made the graphics look worse so that they can make consoles handle the large areas with many characters on screen.
Which caused less players to play it.
I would think that making your game less graphically intensive so that people with low-powered PCs can play it would cause more people to play?
If you play games and have a low powered PC, you aren't likely going to play MMOs. The only exception is if the game is completely awesome damn good (or popular) like WoW or Half-Life 2. This is neither.
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I doubt if the graphics were a deciding factor in anyone's decision to buy this game. Personally, I think they're fine, although they could have stood to make the character design a little more distinctive. Almost everyone you meet is overly pretty and glossy in that generic Hollywood way.
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Fucking smoothskins. Absolutely disgusting. I demand scars, wrinkles and dirt!
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Quite right. Characters should look like this:
(http://oi60.tinypic.com/25yw1mp.jpg)
They should not look like Justin Timberlake here:
(http://oi57.tinypic.com/288w9wp.jpg)
I tried my best to make my Nord look badass, but only had limited success.
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(http://oi57.tinypic.com/288w9wp.jpg)
This game needs a gender slider like Dark Souls.
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IRC snip
Hey retards, Windhelm's design in Skyrim is not canon. You may as well complain that Skyrim didn't depict Windhelm the same way Arena did. In the lore, major cities have populations larger than 50-100.
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(http://oi57.tinypic.com/288w9wp.jpg)
This game needs a gender slider like Dark Souls.
(http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1667/mulef.jpg)
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^ is that supposed to look like an undead from WoW?
(http://i.imgur.com/RzlFkDL.png)
Meet uguukawaii.
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IRC snip
Hey retards, Windhelm's design in Skyrim is not canon. You may as well complain that Skyrim didn't depict Windhelm the same way Arena did. In the lore, major cities have populations larger than 50-100.
Alex is wise. According to most of the games, about 1,000 people live in all of Tamriel.
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Hardware restrictions dictate canonicity now.
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Alex is wise. According to most of the games, about 1,000 people live in all of Tamriel.
This is probably because in TES games there is always this one person who slaughters significant portions of the population while simultaneously being leader of all guilds.
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somehow there's an endless ammount of outlaws.
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Hey retards, Windhelm's design in Skyrim is not canon. You may as well complain that Skyrim didn't depict Windhelm the same way Arena did. In the lore, major cities have populations larger than 50-100.
Double false equivalence fallacy. First of all, nobody cares about how cities or dungeons or pretty much anything in Arena was depicted. Beyond the fact that most of it was randomly generated, Arena was a dull, linear, Nintendo-hard, broken piece of shit even by 1994's standards. Approximately zero people have bothered to play it for more than five minutes nowadays. Your second fallacy is you apparently feigning ignorance of the trope where populations and sizes of video game universes are condensed in order to have an actually playable game. Obviously a little suspension of disbelief is called for on that front. It doesn't follow that we can extend said suspension of disbelief to other elements of the game, like the city design. If it did, we could challenge pretty much anything that happens in these games. Hey, maybe the Skyrim Civil War never happened, because wars involve more than a few dozen guys whacking each other in each battle!
Also, on the notion of hair:
<beardo> do you even beard?
<beardo> pics
<Saddam> No
<beardo> bitch, plz
<Saddam> All the beards are neatly trimmed and metrosexual
<beardo> wat
<Saddam> I have a five-o-clock shadow
<Foxbox> A baked pie
<beardo> why would they^?
<beardo> why?
<Saddam> I told you that the character design in this game is very homosexual
<beardo> I DEMAND AN EXPLANATION
<Saddam> Actually, I'm being dumb
<Saddam> The beards are fine
<Saddam> It's the hairstyles that are terrible
<beardo> so there are rugged manly beards?
<Saddam> Some of them are rugged and manly
<beardo> good
<beardo> good..
<beardo> now, what is this I hear about hair?
<Saddam> But you can't have the long sweat-drenched hair anymore
<beardo> FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
<Saddam> That was the coolest hairstyle ever
<Crudblud> I didn't realise the hair in Skyrim was supposed to be sweat-drenched, I thought it was just shoddily made
<Saddam> It was like having "badass" stamped on your forehead
<Saddam> Some of them are meant to be sweat-drenched
<Saddam> The game was nice enough to give us options
<beardo> Not to imply Vikings were dirty, because they weren't.
<beardo> But they didn't have hairstyles straight out of a beauty saloon
<Saddam> If my hair were long enough, I would grab some gel and give that look a try
<Saddam> It's the right color already
<Saddam> I think I could pull it off
<beardo> I suppose the most tolerable hairstyle in TESO is the bald one then
<beardo> IF there is a bald one
<Saddam> There is indeed a bald one
<beardo> I suppose 90% of them are modern prettyboy styles
<Saddam> Pretty much
<beardo> I don't fucking get that?
<Saddam> Well, maybe not "modern"
<beardo> What is the purpose?
<Saddam> But they're all clean and neat and nicely combed and everything
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Absolutely disgusting.
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Hey retards, Windhelm's design in Skyrim is not canon. You may as well complain that Skyrim didn't depict Windhelm the same way Arena did. In the lore, major cities have populations larger than 50-100.
Double false equivalence fallacy. First of all, nobody cares about how cities or dungeons or pretty much anything in Arena was depicted. Beyond the fact that most of it was randomly generated, Arena was a dull, linear, Nintendo-hard, broken piece of shit even by 1994's standards. Approximately zero people have bothered to play it for more than five minutes nowadays. Your second fallacy is you apparently feigning ignorance of the trope where populations and sizes of video game universes are condensed in order to have an actually playable game. Obviously a little suspension of disbelief is called for on that front. It doesn't follow that we can extend said suspension to disbelief to other elements of the game, like the city design. If it did, we could challenge pretty much anything that happens in these games. Hey, maybe the Skyrim Civil War never happened, because wars involve more than a few dozen guys whacking each other in each battle!
Triple backflip 360 jackknife fallacy. A city's population is obviously going to affect its design. I am aware that the scale is condensed for gameplay, because that's my entire point. Do you think that "canon" Windhelm looks exactly the same as Skyrim's, only with each building 1000 times as big? Because that would need to be the case for it to support the population that it would have lore-wise. They changed the look of Daggerfall and Sentinel quite a bit as well. Why doesn't that bother you? Also, Arena is not linear.
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It bothers Saddam that no one has sat down and created the entire TES universe out of stone and said "this is as it shall be forever and ever."
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Triple backflip 360 jackknife fallacy.
NO U!
A city's population is obviously going to affect its design. I am aware that the scale is condensed for gameplay, because that's my entire point. Do you think that "canon" Windhelm looks exactly the same as Skyrim's, only with each building 1000 times as big? Because that would need to be the case for it to support the population that it would have lore-wise.
Not the buildings themselves, but the city in general. There would be more buildings, the streets would be longer, the city would take up significantly more landmass, etc. That's how I always imagined it, anyway. But in any case, what does this have to do with TESO? It's not like its depiction of Windhelm is meant to be the "canonical" version of the city in terms of size or population. Neither of them properly fit the lore, so they might as well make the design consistent.
They changed the look of Daggerfall and Sentinel quite a bit as well. Why doesn't that bother you?
Because shitty technology and flat, pixelated landscapes. It wasn't until after Daggerfall that Bethesda finally decided to drop their quantity-over-quality approach and instead focus on smaller, well-designed areas, which they demonstrated admirably with Redguard:
(http://oi57.tinypic.com/2qi1seq.jpg)
(http://oi58.tinypic.com/3326q7b.jpg)
(http://oi59.tinypic.com/n5jdc.jpg)
Magnificent. Speaking of which, I think I'm going to start a Daggerfag Covenant character. I want to see how Stros M'Kai looks in comparison to Redguard.
Also, Arena is not linear.
Fine, I'll concede that point. It's still a shitty game, though.
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tl;dr
I just bought a month, since it's 50% off on Steam for the weekend. The client is 80GB.
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80GB? Got damn.
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Neither of them properly fit the lore, so they might as well make the design consistent.
But by having a different design, it is consistent in design, because it's expected that a city is going to change drastically in 800 years.
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Hey retards, Windhelm's design in Skyrim is not canon. You may as well complain that Skyrim didn't depict Windhelm the same way Arena did. In the lore, major cities have populations larger than 50-100.
Double false equivalence fallacy.
Triple backflip 360 jackknife fallacy.
Ah, this is fantastic.
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When the fuck did TESO get on Steam?
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Neither of them properly fit the lore, so they might as well make the design consistent.
But by having a different design, it is consistent in design, because it's expected that a city is going to change drastically in 800 years.
I wouldn't expect it to shrink though.
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Neither of them properly fit the lore, so they might as well make the design consistent.
But by having a different design, it is consistent in design, because it's expected that a city is going to change drastically in 800 years.
I wouldn't expect it to shrink though.
There's no way of telling if the city actually shrunk in terms of lore, because the game representation is obviously much smaller than the actual lore size in both instances. Thus it shouldn't even have to be considered.
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Anyway, now that it's 27,49€ on steam for the weekend, I kinda want it. I'd rather it go down to -75%, but that won't happen with such a new title.
What do? :-\
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Get it so I can hear more about how bad it is and have more reason to hate it without actually playing it
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I feel this is the only chance I get if I'm going to try it out for a cheaper price. I could wait for the winter holiday sales, but I doubt they'll make it -75% off by then either. And 27,49€ is not too bad for a new game. I won't make any rash decisions though. I have a whole weekend to consider this.
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Neither of them properly fit the lore, so they might as well make the design consistent.
But by having a different design, it is consistent in design, because it's expected that a city is going to change drastically in 800 years.
1,000 years. Also, reality is unrealistic (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RealityIsUnrealistic). Sure, realistically, the city would look absolutely nothing like it does in Skyrim. But we're fans of the older games, dammit, and we'd have enjoyed seeing cities that looked more like they did in those games.
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So you're literally just complaining because you're a stupid person with stupid expectation and TESO is actually doing exactly what it's supposed to be doing
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TESO isn't "supposed" to be doing anything on this subject. I, along with, I suspect, most fans, would have liked to see cities that looked more like how they did in previous titles. That's it.
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Neither of them properly fit the lore, so they might as well make the design consistent.
But by having a different design, it is consistent in design, because it's expected that a city is going to change drastically in 800 years.
1,000 years. Also, reality is unrealistic (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RealityIsUnrealistic). Sure, realistically, the city would look absolutely nothing like it does in Skyrim. But we're fans of the older games, dammit, and we'd have enjoyed seeing cities that looked more like they did in those games.
What "older games"? Surely you don't mean Skyrim.
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Neither of them properly fit the lore, so they might as well make the design consistent.
But by having a different design, it is consistent in design, because it's expected that a city is going to change drastically in 800 years.
1,000 years. Also, reality is unrealistic (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RealityIsUnrealistic). Sure, realistically, the city would look absolutely nothing like it does in Skyrim. But we're fans of the older games, dammit, and we'd have enjoyed seeing cities that looked more like they did in those games.
What "older games"? Surely you don't mean Skyrim.
The games he played, obviously.
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[Redguard fanboyism]
(http://i.imgur.com/uTNqd1D.jpg)
Yeah, Redguard looks great... ::)
If the entire game looks this bad, then I'd say Arena is more visually appealing than Redguard, easily. Also, the draw-distance fucking sucks.
(http://i.imgur.com/vVPqCTr.png)
Atleast you can tell what is going on here, and you get to create your own character. Not everyone wants to play as Cyrus with a candle-stick meter and rapier gauge.
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Not everyone wants to play as Cyrus
Racist.
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Zentifically speaking, one would wish to play as Cyprus if one wished to play Rudyard, as he is the character one plays, and if one did not play him one would not play.
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You need to get out of this thread. I am an anti-zentite.
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Zentifically speaking, one would wish to play as Cyprus if one wished to play Rudyard, as he is the character one plays, and if one did not play him one would not play.
This is sound Zentific reasoning.
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Cyprus Hill
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What "older games"? Surely you don't mean Skyrim.
Yes, along with Morrowind and Oblivion. I'll let Redguard slide. What about TESO? Have you finished downloading it yet? Have you played it? What do you think, huh huh huh?
(http://i.imgur.com/uTNqd1D.jpg)
Yeah, Redguard looks great... ::)
If the entire game looks this bad, then I'd say Arena is more visually appealing than Redguard, easily. Also, the draw-distance fucking sucks.
You posted an incredibly shitty picture, so of course the game looks bad.
(http://i.imgur.com/vVPqCTr.png)
Atleast you can tell what is going on here, and you get to create your own character. Not everyone wants to play as Cyrus with a candle-stick meter and rapier gauge.
First of all, the rapier isn't a gauge, it just indicates that your sword is equipped and ready to use. The picture changes depending on what item you equip. Second of all, Redguard isn't an RPG.
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I've played a little bit. I created a master race Dunmer master class Sorcerer. I haven't done much apart from run around Morrowind after finishing the obligatory annoying starter dungeon. First impressions: it looks great for an MMO. Combat feels like a floatier version of Skyrim's (so Oblivion's combat system, basically), which is understandable. It requires more active participation than most other MMOs, at least. If I were to play with a good group of people, I think I could enjoy this game. It may help that I've never really seriously played an MMO apart from EVE, so I'm not weary of all the genre's tropes.
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EVE, arguably the only MMO that requires you to think.
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EVE master race.
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In other news, Skyrim has some horrendous microstuttering problem in caves for me, which seems to be a recent problem. The only way I have found that fixes it is to set the CPU affinity to one core. Skyrim is surprisingly CPU dependent, which is funny considering how horridly optimized it is. It fixes the microstuttering but causes FPS drops in the open world because my i5-3570k isn't capable of running all of Skyrim's processes on one core. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.
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Your only option is to play TESO.
You know, for a game you complain so much about, you sure do like it a lot.
...it is 50% off on Steam right now... but seeing as how it came out just a few months ago, I see that more as a bad sign than a good one.
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Well, to be fair, it is part of the Quakecon sale.
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Well, to be fair, it is part of the Quakecon sale.
Yeah, but Steam normally gimps the newer game sales. i.e. during the Steam Summer Sale, just released games normally get a 5 or 10% off. I'll wait for Saddam to tweet about the end game and I'll contemplate playing it.
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Your only option is to play TESO.
You know, for a game you complain so much about, you sure do like it a lot.
I do indeed like it. It's definitely flawed, but I wouldn't still be playing it if I wasn't enjoying it. As for the endgame, I've heard that it's pretty bad and basically the signal to cancel your subscription, but I'll be able to offer my own opinion once I get there myself.
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I've played a little bit. I created a master race Dunmer master class Sorcerer. I haven't done much apart from run around Morrowind after finishing the obligatory annoying starter dungeon. First impressions: it looks great for an MMO. Combat feels like a floatier version of Skyrim's (so Oblivion's combat system, basically), which is understandable. It requires more active participation than most other MMOs, at least. If I were to play with a good group of people, I think I could enjoy this game. It may help that I've never really seriously played an MMO apart from EVE, so I'm not weary of all the genre's tropes.
Collect 50 bear asses to level, end game consists of instanced raids, trinity class system are some of the big tropes. No idea if they're present in TESO.
EVE, arguably the only MMO that requires you to think.
Even WoW requires you to think at certain levels of play, you elitist.
Your only option is to play TESO.
You know, for a game you complain so much about, you sure do like it a lot.
I do indeed like it. It's definitely flawed, but I wouldn't still be playing it if I wasn't enjoying it. As for the endgame, I've heard that it's pretty bad and basically the signal to cancel your subscription, but I'll be able to offer my own opinion once I get there myself.
Most MMO's have utter shit end game for the first 6 months or so.
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Even WoW requires you to think at certain levels of play, you elitist.
Don't confuse boss memorization with thinking. Furthermore, all of WoW is a big gear fest. Whoever has better stuff wins a battle, with strategy and actual gameplay style having little to no impact on the outcome. The classes are so terribly balanced that "better gear" is the only good way to determine a winner, anyway.
Whereas in EVE, a level one trial character in a Catalyst can fuck up a guy in a Rifter who has been leveling for 5 years. Level and gear only augment a player, not define them.
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You're not wrong, but you're not quite right either. Skill makes a pretty big difference in PvP and higher raid tiers. Having the best gear in the game might mean you can stomp people and encounters below you, but things on your level certainly take skill to complete. The game is more skill based now than it has ever been before. In any case, it certainly takes some thought. And WoW requires less thought than other MMO's I've played, which is why I used it as an example.
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[redguard fanboyism]
What about the candle stick? What the hell is that for?
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[redguard fanboyism]
What about the candle stick? What the hell is that for?
That's your health.
I just laughed out loud. Thanks for that, Saddam.
But, really... what is it?
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It's a visual cue. It's a bit silly, but it's not ridiculous enough to warrant this kind of fake incredulity.
Anyway, I demand big long essays from Alexandyr and beardo discussing TESO.
<Saddam> beardo: Discuss TESO
<beardo> There is nothing to discuss
<Saddam> beardo: What is that supposed to mean?
<Saddam> It's a game, you're playing it
<Saddam> Surely you have opinions
<beardo> I means I have nothing to say about it
<Saddam> How could you possibly have nothing to say about it?
<Saddam> Is it just that unremarkable?
<Saddam> Neither great nor terrible?
<beardo> I punch nix-hounds
<beardo> ther
<pizaaplanet> beerdo
<beardo> and there
<Saddam> But are you enjoying it?
<beardo> It's better than Dark Souls.
<beardo> Ha ha ha ha
<pizaaplanet> Well, that goes without saying
<pizaaplanet> Dark Souls is terrible
<beardo> It is.
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My Morrowind experience thus far:
Start out. Have fun. Die from a little worm because 1 out of 100 hits connect.
Run from a thousand worms. Spend infinity hours reading and talking to people. Can't fight anything because 1 out of 100 hits connect.
Get bow. 1 out of 7-10 hits connects! Kill a few things, get murdered by everything else.
Go to sleep, assassin attack in the middle of the night. Run out of house. Sleep at someone else's place and go back to fight, running and repeating when I can't kill him. Repeat this about 57 times. Still not dead. Used up all 150-something arrows.
hay guise this gaem is best
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My Morrowind experience thus far:
Start out. Have fun. Die from a little worm because 1 out of 100 hits connect.
Run from a thousand worms. Spend infinity hours reading and talking to people. Can't fight anything because 1 out of 100 hits connect.
Get bow. 1 out of 7-10 hits connects! Kill a few things, get murdered by everything else.
Go to sleep, assassin attack in the middle of the night. Run out of house. Sleep at someone else's place and go back to fight, running and repeating when I can't kill him. Repeat this about 57 times. Still not dead. Used up all 150-something arrows.
hay guise this gaem is best
Whiff mechanics in Morrowind are one of my biggest criticisms of the game. Once your skill level with a certain weapon is about 50 you wont miss nearly as often, but connecting on screen and missing because of dice rolls is still a stupid concept for a game like Morrowind.
Since it is your first playthrough: Have you tried lowering the difficulty? That helps a lot, but it makes the game feel like easymode at certain parts. Although, easymode for Morrowind is pretty much hardmode in Oblivion.
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My Morrowind experience thus far:
Start out. Have fun. Die from a little worm because 1 out of 100 hits connect.
Run from a thousand worms. Spend infinity hours reading and talking to people. Can't fight anything because 1 out of 100 hits connect.
Get bow. 1 out of 7-10 hits connects! Kill a few things, get murdered by everything else.
Go to sleep, assassin attack in the middle of the night. Run out of house. Sleep at someone else's place and go back to fight, running and repeating when I can't kill him. Repeat this about 57 times. Still not dead. Used up all 150-something arrows.
hay guise this gaem is best
You're doing something wrong. I suspect you're either trying to fight with 0 fatigue or using a weapon that you haven't chosen as a major skill.
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Once your skill level with a certain weapon is about 50 you wont miss nearly as often, but connecting on screen and missing because of dice rolls is still a stupid concept for a game like Morrowind.
Since it is your first playthrough: Have you tried lowering the difficulty? That helps a lot, but it makes the game feel like easymode at certain parts. Although, easymode for Morrowind is pretty much hardmode in Oblivion.
My bow skill is 50. :L
Also, my gamer pride will not let me lower the difficulty. I cannot.
You're doing something wrong. I suspect you're either trying to fight with 0 fatigue or using a weapon that you haven't chosen as a major skill.
The former happens occasionally, but I am indeed using a weapon I have chosen as a major skill—though it would've been nice to have been warned that using non-major-skill weapons would result in a .0005% chance of hits connecting, as I planned to use a dagger on the side.
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Once your skill level with a certain weapon is about 50 you wont miss nearly as often, but connecting on screen and missing because of dice rolls is still a stupid concept for a game like Morrowind.
Since it is your first playthrough: Have you tried lowering the difficulty? That helps a lot, but it makes the game feel like easymode at certain parts. Although, easymode for Morrowind is pretty much hardmode in Oblivion.
My bow skill is 50. :L
Also, my gamer pride will not let me lower the difficulty. I cannot.
You're doing something wrong. I suspect you're either trying to fight with 0 fatigue or using a weapon that you haven't chosen as a major skill.
The former happens occasionally, but I am indeed using a weapon I have chosen as a major skill—though it would've been nice to have been warned that using non-major-skill weapons would result in a .0005% chance of hits connecting, as I planned to use a dagger on the side.
You can still use a dagger, provided you made it one of your primary/secondary skills. You might need to skill it up a bit by using it.
PS: Did you get my message on Nintendo Network?
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<Snupes> Fuck
<Snupes> I think I'm just going to restart the damn game as a mage.
<Saddam> There are also cats and monkeys
<Saddam> Being a mage is tough
<Saddam> Wait, Snupes
<Blanko> Snupes: Mage isn't any easier
<Saddam> Magicka doesn't repawn
<Blanko> You just need to optimize your build better
<Saddam> And most spells fail
<Snupes> Blanko: You just need to go fuck yourself
<Snupes> :^)
<Saddam> Try a melee build
<Snupes> By that do you mean at the start of the game?
<Blanko> Yeah
<Snupes> Fuck that shit
<Blanko> Start with 85 agility
<Snupes> I should not have to pre-plan that shit before I know anything about the game
<Snupes> Had I known not minmaxing would literally neuter my ability to fucking do anything, things might be different
<Blanko> ok
<Blanko> or you could just use your shitty build
<Blanko> It's up to you
<Snupes> The wonderful world of Morrowind, where, if you screw up a build, your choices come down to "don't enjoy the game" or "replay 5 hours of tedium to make a good build"
<Blanko> 5 hours
<Blanko> How much progress have you made
<Snupes> I don't know, I've done a bunch of quests by now.
<Snupes> Not much on the main story because lol main story in an Elder Scrolls game
<Blanko> You can speedrun them in half an hour
<Blanko> gogogogo
<Snupes> nononono
<beardo> Niggers
<Snupes> I assure you I would not manage them in half an hour
...
<Blanko> Snupes: Do you hold the attack key until the bow is fully drawn before releasing, or do you just click it
<Snupes> Fully drawn
<Foxbox> I hold the attack key for three full minutes
<Crudblud> Foxbox knows the secrets to Morrowind success
<Snupes> Also I just jumped and am now stuck in a piece of wood that was on the ground
<Snupes> fml
<Foxbox> lol I got stuck on a tree
<Parsifal> I feel like I'm missing something obvious
<Crudblud> Morrowind, the greatest game ever
<Foxbox> I have murdered a few people
<Blanko> Snupes: ok
<Blanko> keep doing that~
<Snupes> Why was this game specifically designed to not work for me
<Blanko> Ready to give up?
<Snupes> Yes
<Blanko> You tried so hard
<Blanko> And got so far
<Blanko> In the end
<Snupes> No
<Blanko> It doesn't even matter
<Snupes> http://i.imgur.com/nmMuKhL.png
<Snupes> Welcome to the life of Snupes
<Snupes> My new permanent home
<Parsifal> Blanko: What
<Foxbox> Sad
<Parsifal> I walked up to the leader of the Guild of Mages in Balmora
<Parsifal> She was like "you may be ready for advancement"
<Parsifal> And then suddenly I was an Apprentice
<Parsifal> But then she said I was ready for advancement again immediately, and now I'm a Journeyman
<Crudblud> Snupes: This wouldn't be happening if you were a professional skateboardist like me
<Snupes> I wish I could have your swag
<Snupes> Nobody in this fucking world trusts me enough to talk about Dwemer Artifacts
<Blanko> Parsifal: Climbing up the ranks
<Blanko> Like a boss
<Blanko> They saw what you did to Ra'Virr and decided not to fuck with you
<Snupes> Okay, I can't do this anymore
tl;dr: Parsifal is pimptastic at this game. Snupes sucks and eventually ragequit.
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You don't need to minmax. You don't even need to plan your build that carefully. You just need to realize the importance of fatigue and not be an idiot.
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You don't need to minmax. You don't even need to plan your build that carefully. You just need to realize the importance of fatigue and not be an idiot.
You and Blanko seem to have quite opposite advice for me. Also, how well I take care of my fatigue has not much improved my experience, and it's a pain in the ass to have to walk at -40 mph to keep my fatigue low.
Also fuck you
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I already know that Morrowind is an awful game and I've not even played it.
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You don't need to minmax. You don't even need to plan your build that carefully. You just need to realize the importance of fatigue and not be an idiot.
You and Blanko seem to have quite opposite advice for me. Also, how well I take care of my fatigue has not much improved my experience, and it's a pain in the ass to have to walk at -40 mph to keep my fatigue low.
Also fuck you
Blanko doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. ESO was probably his first Elder Scrolls game. You don't need to walk everywhere, just rest a bit if you know you're about to fight something serious like a tiny kwama forager, or have some restore fatigue potions. If you're fighting while rested and using a weapon that you're reasonably skilled with you should be connecting at least half of your attacks. Otherwise, you might have very low agility or your opponent might have very high agility.
I already know that Morrowind is an awful game and I've not even played it.
You can go ahead and just dodge and roll your way right out of this thread.
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Just play WoW. You don't even need to think about skills or talents.
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Regardless of all the mixed info, Morrowind is a much harder game than Oblivion or Skyrim but it is a lot less mindless because of it. Especially when you're starting out. You might want to research some things online now that you've experienced it firsthand.
Sometimes Morrowind's harsh learning curve gets in the way of having fun, which is why the difficulty slider is there. Use it. Increase the difficulty slowly as you progress.
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You don't need to minmax. You don't even need to plan your build that carefully. You just need to realize the importance of fatigue and not be an idiot.
I'm not saying she needs to minmax, I'm just saying it makes the game fucking easy.
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You don't need to minmax. You don't even need to plan your build that carefully. You just need to realize the importance of fatigue and not be an idiot.
I'm not saying she needs to minmax, I'm just saying it makes the game fucking easy.
The wisdom of Blanko.
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I realized something while browsing the ESO forums. The average MMO player is both 12 years old and utterly retarded. "Dwemer should be a playable race" retarded. Zenimax Online has drawn thousands of these cretins to the ES series, and they're spewing all of their terrible opinions right into the developer's faces. I'm not saying that previously every ES fan was a gentlemanly fedora capped scholar, but I really think the group's average age and intelligence has dropped. This isn't really a problem right now, but what if these people stick around for the next actual ES game? More stupid opinions than ever before will be shouted at Bethesda Game Studios, and Todd Howard is not a strong man. He won't be able to resist the sweet temptation of the money of these kid's parents.
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Hahaha. General forums on MMO's are the best.
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http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/94597/would-you-be-willing-to-break-lore
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/121283/which-race-would-you-like-to-see-on-teso-and-why
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/120423/i-implore-you-let-me-change-my-race
The retarded tension.
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Classic thread:
Is there any special places you take your in game date? Please explain the location.
Coldharbour - Halls of Torment.
Have fun!
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*chat copypasta*
This just confirms that girls are terrible at video games.
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I haven't found anything in Morrowind particularly difficult. Challenging, yes, but not difficult. The learning curve is what keeps things interesting, and I've been playing the whole thing on default difficulty.
It may be worth noting that this is my first time playing an Elder Scrolls game.
I've recently found that the most effective way to make money is to kill shopkeepers and loot their wares, which has made me consider leaving the Mages Guild and joining the Thieves Guild, or maybe even the Dark Brotherhood. The Mages Guild has recently given me two assignments involving potential assassination, one of which stands to be very profitable, so we'll see.
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The Dark Brotherhood isn't joinable. Instead, there is the much cooler Morag Tong.
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*chat copypasta*
This just confirms that girls are terrible at video games.
I am a magnificent gamer and will destroy you
It may be worth noting that this is my first time playing an Elder Scrolls game.
I've a feeling this is at least part of my problem. I've played Oblivion and many, many hours of Skyrim, and I play Morrowind essentially the same way I play those. Had I started with Morrowind, I feel like I would have had a much better experience.
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You don't need to leave guilds to join other ones. But then again, immersion, roleplaying, lore.
If you ever feel like trying again, I suggest going with a combat-oriented class. At least stamina replenishes itself. Magicka and arrows don't.
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(http://i.imgur.com/4JJLsVp.jpg)
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I looked up whether Morrowind has voice acting or not and wikipedia says it has a "fair bit." Can anyone help me quantify what a "fair bit" is?
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I looked up whether Morrowind has voice acting or not and wikipedia says it has a "fair bit." Can anyone help me quantify what a "fair bit" is?
Sometimes when you walk next to people they will say stuff like "Outlander......", "Greetings", "Welcome", etc.
All the character dialogue outside of those interactions is text-based.
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Sometimes when you walk next to people they will say stuff like "Outlander......", "Greetings", "Welcome", etc.
All the character dialogue outside of those interactions is text.
thinking about getting it but oh god thats awful I'm definitely even more not playing morrowind ever
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Sometimes when you walk next to people they will say stuff like "Outlander......", "Greetings", "Welcome", etc.
All the character dialogue outside of those interactions is text.
thinking about getting it but oh god thats awful I'm definitely even more not playing morrowind ever
Well then you're a fucking moran because Morrowind is the best game ever made.
Play it on xbawks for true cool points, my friend.
play it on xbawks
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I looked up whether Morrowind has voice acting or not and wikipedia says it has a "fair bit." Can anyone help me quantify what a "fair bit" is?
Sometimes when you walk next to people they will say stuff like "Outlander......", "Greetings", "Welcome", etc.
All the character dialogue outside of those interactions is text-based.
Certain important characters are more thoroughly voice acted, like a certain member of House Dagoth and Azura. The lack of voice acting otherwise allows for more extensive dialogue, since the developers don't need to worry about paying extra to voice each word. Also, the quality of the writing suspiciously dropped greatly with the addition of full voice acting. Lastly, the voice acting that is present is actually some of the best in the series. There's a reason people have been whining about bringing back Jeff Baker's Dunmer voice ever since Oblivion's release. Listen for yourself:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvkjmnRRcG4
It's genuinely unnerving to hear an Ordinator growl something like "let's not make this official, outlander... move along."
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Jeff Baker could voice everyone in the next real Elder Scrolls game and I wouldn't mind.
I'm also a fan of Wes Johnson's derpy Imperial voice in Oblivion.
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There's more to measuring good writing than the quality of the prose itself. The blocks of text that function as dialogue in Morrowind may well display beautiful turns of phrase, but the fact remains that they're still blocks of text rather than normal dialogue, which is a huge flaw in and of itself. And I don't agree that they're all that well-written, anyway. They're not terrible, but they're almost all written in the same curt, clipped, businesslike manner, with very little room left over for any character or personality.
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There's more to measuring good writing than the quality of the prose itself. The blocks of text that function as dialogue in Morrowind may well display beautiful turns of phrase, but the fact remains that they're still blocks of text rather than normal dialogue, which is a huge flaw in and of itself. And I don't agree that they're all that well-written, anyway. They're not terrible, but they're almost all written in the same curt, clipped, businesslike manner, with very little room left over for any character or personality.
Do you actually listen to all of the voiced dialogue in Oblivion or Skyrim, or do you just read ahead and skip to the next line when you're done?
I was mostly talking about the dialogue that is important to the plot. Sure, generic NPCs give a lot of the same information and do so in a weird, overly expository way, but I don't mind. I like the flavorful information.
Anyway, the biggest and flashiest example of the superiority of Morrowind's writing over Oblivion's is the final speech of each game's antagonist.
Here is Mankar Camoran's cheesy monologue. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GsqEfSOJOU) Notice that the phrase "hero of destiny" is used without a trace of irony, and that the voice actor sounds like a right ponce. He is going to rebuild the world, to make it a better place by any means possible. You cannot possibly stop him. His plan is already set in motion. Wow, I've never heard that before. Oh wait, yes I have, in everything ever.
Compare to this, the conversation you have with Dagoth Ur before he kills you over and over. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pt6O-COePs) Firstly, his voice is actually intimidating. Secondly, he actually converses with you. Well, first he gives you the option to just "skip the speeches" and get right to business. He treats you as an equal, recognizing the fact that you may indeed be Lord Neravar incarnate. He asks you questions, and offers to answer questions of yours. It feels personal. You aren't just another hero of destiny rolling your eyes at another evil mastermind monologue.
As for Skyrim, the antagonist is a giant dragon with red eyes who eats souls. He may as well have been commanding Nazi legions.
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Did you just insult the magnificent Terence Stamp? How very dare you!
Anyway, yes, of course Dagoth Ur is a far better villain than Mankar Camoran. And I agree that for the most part, Oblivion was a very ill-advised step backwards into generic high fantasy cliché, so I won't spend much time defending it. But, like I said (although I should have spent more time explaining it, as nobody here is a mind reader [or are they?]), writing encompasses more than putting one word in front of the other in a way that sounds good. There's also the basic structuring of the plot and how it's presented to the player, and there Morrowind struggles.
Look at the beginnings of these games, for example. In Morrowind, the story begins with the Emperor using his influence to have you, a prisoner transported to Vvardenfell and released. This sounds promising, he must have big plans for you! Or maybe not. Apparently it's just to offer you a job. It's not a very good job, either; you're basically just Caius's gofer. And that's it, at least for the first solid chunk of the main quest. It's not until you're several quests in that they finally bother to tell you what's so important about all this and what it has to do with you. Until then, there are no stakes. There is no motivation. There is no reason for you to give a fuck about any of the inhabitants of this island. Gods know they don't give one about you.
We'll skip over Oblivion because that game begins almost as badly as it ends. Skyrim, however, handles it better than both of them. The introduction at Helgen sets the scene nicely, establishing both the threat that the dragons pose and how the civil war is ripping the land apart. Your involvement in the events that follow feels natural rather than forced - you're one of the few survivors of a dragon attack, so it makes sense that you'd be recruited in the aftermath to try and deal with the threat. And your identity as the chosen one is revealed after you kill your first dragon, by way of a wondrous display of magic that grants you amazing powers. That's how to start a game off right. Show rather than tell.
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Right, Morrowind doesn't immediately shove you head first into another universe-threatening disaster as the only true hero of destiny who can put an end to the chaos. It's a tad more subtle. The sense of urgency in Skyrim is uncomfortable for any roleplayer who doesn't immediately want to begin the MQ.
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Right, Morrowind doesn't immediately shove you head first into another universe-threatening disaster as the only true hero of destiny who can put an end to the chaos. It's a tad more subtle. The sense of urgency in Skyrim is uncomfortable for any roleplayer who doesn't immediately want to begin the MQ.
To be honest, though, it doesn't really even bother to try to catch your interest, either. In Morrowind, so far, I really have no interest in what's going on. The atrocious (IMO, obviously) conversation system doesn't help things because I need to read a novel whenever I talk to people. As I've said in IRC, I'm the kind of person who exhausts every conversational option with NPCs in all games and will read crap like Mass Effect's codexes and games' information logs, but in Morrowind it's just tiring. Going through weird conversation chains and keywords and the incredibly stiff, info-dump dialogue. It got to the point where I'm basically skimming dialogue and just clicking through to find quest-relevant keywords like some weird kind of needle+haystack search and then reading anything that updates my journal. I'm a very fast reader and love reading, but I really don't think the game has great dialogue. The voice acting, where existent, is much better than any other Elder Scrolls game, though.
I want so badly to like this game, it seems in theory like a game I'd love and I've heard endless praise for it, but every time I feel like I'm sort of getting into it something comes up that bothers me.
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Right, Morrowind doesn't immediately shove you head first into another universe-threatening disaster as the only true hero of destiny who can put an end to the chaos. It's a tad more subtle. The sense of urgency in Skyrim is uncomfortable for any roleplayer who doesn't immediately want to begin the MQ.
To be honest, though, it doesn't really even bother to try to catch your interest, either. In Morrowind, so far, I really have no interest in what's going on.
You're right. The game doesn't dangle shiny objects in front of your face to get your attention. It simply presents the world to you, and tells you that you're free to do as you wish. If that doesn't interest you, you probably won't like the game.
The atrocious (IMO, obviously) conversation system doesn't help things because I need to read a novel whenever I talk to people. As I've said in IRC, I'm the kind of person who exhausts every conversational option with NPCs in all games and will read crap like Mass Effect's codexes and games' information logs, but in Morrowind it's just tiring. Going through weird conversation chains and keywords and the incredibly stiff, info-dump dialogue. It got to the point where I'm basically skimming dialogue and just clicking through to find quest-relevant keywords like some weird kind of needle+haystack search and then reading anything that updates my journal. I'm a very fast reader and love reading, but I really don't think the game has great dialogue. The voice acting, where existent, is much better than any other Elder Scrolls game, though.
I want so badly to like this game, it seems in theory like a game I'd love and I've heard endless praise for it, but every time I feel like I'm sort of getting into it something comes up that bothers me.
If you're asking every single NPC about directions to the nearest Fighter's Guild, to give you a little advice, latest rumors, etc. you'll certainly get tired of reading. If you're just reading the important stuff, and only engaging non-quest NPCs in conversation when you feel like it, the amount of reading is perfectly normal for an RPG.
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Morrowind is a 2D turn-based RPG masquerading as a 3D real-time action-adventure game.
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You're right. The game doesn't dangle shiny objects in front of your face to get your attention. It simply presents the world to you, and tells you that you're free to do as you wish. If that doesn't interest you, you probably won't like the game.
I feel like that's a vast embellishment of it. I love games where I can go off and do whatever I want and I generally do so. I'm not just talking about the main story, I'm talking about everything. Morrowind is a pretty interesting world, but there's really no catalyst for the desire to want to see more and, in comparison to games nowadays, there really is not all that much. Perhaps I'm spoiled by stuff like Skyrim (a game I don't even have a positive opinion of), but my adventures of traveling off the beaten paths of Morrowind so far have consisted of finding caves with mean people in them who want to kill me and finding nests and stuff. You guys seem to think I'm trying to disparage the game or something when I'm really trying to like it and understand why people froth at the mouth about it. I want to like this game, so I'm trying to have a discussion about it.
If you're asking every single NPC about directions to the nearest Fighter's Guild, to give you a little advice, latest rumors, etc. you'll certainly get tired of reading. If you're just reading the important stuff, and only engaging non-quest NPCs in conversation when you feel like it, the amount of reading is perfectly normal for an RPG.
Yeah, that I understand now. It just sucks 'cause I like talking to miscellaneous villagers in RPGs, it helps immerse me more.
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You're right. The game doesn't dangle shiny objects in front of your face to get your attention. It simply presents the world to you, and tells you that you're free to do as you wish. If that doesn't interest you, you probably won't like the game.
I feel like that's a vast embellishment of it. I love games where I can go off and do whatever I want and I generally do so. I'm not just talking about the main story, I'm talking about everything. Morrowind is a pretty interesting world, but there's really no catalyst for the desire to want to see more and, in comparison to games nowadays, there really is not all that much. Perhaps I'm spoiled by stuff like Skyrim (a game I don't even have a positive opinion of), but my adventures of traveling off the beaten paths of Morrowind so far have consisted of finding caves with mean people in them who want to kill me and finding nests and stuff. You guys seem to think I'm trying to disparage the game or something when I'm really trying to like it and understand why people froth at the mouth about it. I want to like this game, so I'm trying to have a discussion about it.
It's interesting that you feel spoiled by Skyrim, since it has fewer locations and less variety among them. Concerning dungeons: Skyrim has 176, which include Daedric shrines, caves, Dwemer ruins, mines, forts, and ruins. Morrowind has 224, and they include caves, ancestral tombs, daedric shrines and ruins, Dunmer strongholds, Dwemer ruins, grottos, mines, and Velothi towers.
Skyrim has 16 settlements, which range from major cities to minor cities to towns. The only variation in architecture is between the five major cities. Morrowind has 27 settlements, including Ashlander tribes, imperial towns, Dunmeri towns (Hlaalu, Redoran, or Telvanni), plantations, and the four major cities.
I could go on. Factions, weapons and armor, spell effects and enchantments, clothing, types of creatures, skills. There's more of pretty much everything in Morrowind. The claim that "there really is not all that much" compared to games nowadays is demonstrably false. I know this is definitely cheating, but include Tamriel Rebuilt in those numbers and you can quintuple everything. We may never see a mod of the same scale created for any other ES game.
Each interesting artifact in Skyrim is almost invariably both levelled and/or attached to a quest. In Morrowind, there are dozens of artifacts that you'll only find if you happen to stumble upon them, and they aren't scaled to your level.
Are you using any mods? MGSO (Morrowind Graphics and Sound Overhaul) is an excellent collection that does exactly what the name suggests. I'm very picky about my mod selection, so I'm usually wary of compilations like this, but it is assembled with great care. It's also comes with a very simple installer. Here's an album of some of shots of my setup. (http://imgur.com/a/sjEFe)
I could froth at the mouth about Morrowind all day. I like hearing reactions from new players. Especially if they aren't enjoying it, because I like having my jeromes rumbled.
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Right, Morrowind doesn't immediately shove you head first into another universe-threatening disaster as the only true hero of destiny who can put an end to the chaos. It's a tad more subtle. The sense of urgency in Skyrim is uncomfortable for any roleplayer who doesn't immediately want to begin the MQ.
But that's exactly what it does! That's what all Elder Scrolls games do! You're "the only true hero of destiny who can put an end to the chaos" from the moment the Emperor decides that you might fit the prophecy and ships you off to Vvardenfell. The main difference when it comes to the "sense of urgency" is that in Morrowind, it's the other characters who aren't treating this super-important problem with the gravity and attention it deserves, rather than the player. And it's far easier to maintain suspension of disbelief over the idiosyncrasies of the player character than those of the NPCs.
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What do you mean with "super-important problem with the gravity and attention it deserves"? What would give you, the player character, the idea that it is a super-important problem when none of the NPCs tell you that? If anything, the game goes to great lengths in explaining that they've been dealing with the issue for a long time, and it's only natural that the inhabitants who are used to the protection of the Ghostfence aren't going crazy when seemingly nothing has changed. For most of the game, you're not even dealing with the problem, you're just finding out what the problem is and whether you actually fit the bill to be getting rid of it. It's not massively urgent when the problem has been existing for a long time in the game world.
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Right, Morrowind doesn't immediately shove you head first into another universe-threatening disaster as the only true hero of destiny who can put an end to the chaos. It's a tad more subtle. The sense of urgency in Skyrim is uncomfortable for any roleplayer who doesn't immediately want to begin the MQ.
But that's exactly what it does! That's what all Elder Scrolls games do! You're "the only true hero of destiny who can put an end to the chaos" from the moment the Emperor decides that you might fit the prophecy and ships you off to Vvardenfell.
Yes, you're the hero in every game. Good observation. However, in Morrowings, you aren't beaten over the head with that fact right from the beginning. One of the first things you do in Skyrim's main quest is kill a dragon. If you don't get sidetracked at all, you'll be level 2 or 3 by this point. When you kill the dragon. It's as if the game is afraid you'll lose interest if you don't immediately feel muscular and powerful, so it begins with a pat on the back before it lovingly wipes the drool from your chin and gently nudges you toward the next quest marker.
The main difference when it comes to the "sense of urgency" is that in Morrowind, it's the other characters who aren't treating this super-important problem with the gravity and attention it deserves, rather than the player. And it's far easier to maintain suspension of disbelief over the idiosyncrasies of the player character than those of the NPCs.
Something tells me you haven't played very far into the main quest. Or spoken with an NPC. Everybody is afraid of the Blight and the spread of Red Mountain's influence. The Buoyant Armigers, the Temple's most powerful military order, are stationed at Ghostgate just to prevent the spread of anything from Red Mountain.
Still, the extent of Dagoth Ur's plans aren't immediately obvious. That's one of the major differences between the two stories. You don't start out as a hero in Morrowind, and the villian isn't as obnoxiously villianous. You don't discover that you're the Neravarine until fairly late in the MQ, and it actually feels like a momentous discovery. It feels like something truly earned. Killing a level-scaled (epic dragon pun) dragon in the first half of Act I does not.
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When I talk about a missing sense of urgency, I'm basically referring to Caius, and by extension, his superiors in Cyrodiil. It's obviously very important for them to see the prophecy fulfilled and stop Dagoth-Ur, or else the Emperor wouldn't be resorting to such measures as pardoning a convict and offering him a position in his elite spy agency. But this simply doesn't jibe with how little they seem to care about you once you're off the boat. Things like casually asking you to join the Blades and shrugging it off if you decline, not bothering to explain why you're so important, and immediately just assigning you pointless missions gathering information that they clearly already have - or else why would you even be here?
I understand what you're saying about subtlety, and I don't think that the game would have been improved if everyone was fawning over you right from the beginning like in Oblivion. Instead, what they should have done was start it out like Daggerfall, with you already being a trusted agent of the Empire, sent to Vvardenfell to investigate rumors of the Sixth House and mysterious prophecies. There, you meet your contact, Caius, who points you in the direction of people he's identified that might have information on these topics, and so on. This way, you're the one who's putting the pieces together and figuring out what needs to be done, rather than it all having been decided ahead of time and behind your back by the Empire, which is now using you as a pawn while telling you as little as possible.
A change like that would have made for a more interesting draw into the story. It doesn't need a juvenile power fantasy, as you apparently interpreted from my defense of Skyrim, but a sense of agency, a feeling that you yourself are an active character who is driving the plot forward. Maybe this bugs me more than it does most people, but to put it simply, I don't like RPGs where your role extends to little more than being the toady of some other character or institution. That's probably why I felt instinctively outraged when I heard about how this Trahearne fellow, even though I've never played GW2 and almost certainly never will. And before anyone says it, yes, I know Caius eventually fucks off back to Cyrodiil, and it looks like the main quest gets a lot better from then on. (No such luck with Oblivion. :() I'm specifically criticizing the beginning, not the whole thing.
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When I talk about a missing sense of urgency, I'm basically referring to Caius, and by extension, his superiors in Cyrodiil. It's obviously very important for them to see the prophecy fulfilled and stop Dagoth-Ur, or else the Emperor wouldn't be resorting to such measures as pardoning a convict and offering him a position in his elite spy agency. But this simply doesn't jibe with how little they seem to care about you once you're off the boat. Things like casually asking you to join the Blades and shrugging it off if you decline, not bothering to explain why you're so important, and immediately just assigning you pointless missions gathering information that they clearly already have - or else why would you even be here?
You're given a coded message to deliver to an agent of the Emperor. That's about as serious as the game can be while still allowing you freedom of choice. Would you rather an armed escort deliver you to Caius directly? He doesn't shrug it off if you refuse to follow his orders. He actually becomes quite hostile (verbally). He doesn't explain anything to you initially because it isn't certain whether or not you can actually fulfill the Neravarine prophecy, and he doesn't have all the answers anyway.
The Empire is essentially doing what it can to prepare you to fulfill the Prophecy. This is why the first few missions involve gathering information about the Neravarine and the Sixth House. Caius can't just tell you himself, because he does not have the detailed information that the informants you soon meet provide through their notes and reading recommendations. That's why you deliver the notes to Caius. You would probably have a better understanding of this if you actually played the game instead of just reading about it.
I understand what you're saying about subtlety, and I don't think that the game would have been improved if everyone was fawning over you right from the beginning like in Oblivion. Instead, what they should have done was start it out like Daggerfall, with you already being a trusted agent of the Empire, sent to Vvardenfell to investigate rumors of the Sixth House and mysterious prophecies.
You aren't really an Imperial agent in Daggerfall, just a good friend of the Emperor. Your character would never have an official affiliation with any political group before the game has even begun. That's entirely contrary to the spirit of the games.
There, you meet your contact, Caius, who points you in the direction of people he's identified that might have information on these topics, and so on. This way, you're the one who's putting the pieces together and figuring out what needs to be done, rather than it all having been decided ahead of time and behind your back by the Empire, which is now using you as a pawn while telling you as little as possible.
That's a really good idea. The first quest could have been something like visiting an informant, named, say, Hasphat Antabolis, to gather information about the Sixth House. The next quest could have you visit another informant, maybe an Orc this time, to receive notes further explaining the Neravarine Prophecy. Perhaps the next quest could involve visiting informants from a different city. Let's say Vivec. There could be three of them this time. Why didn't they do this?
Seriously, have you played this game?
A change like that would have made for a more interesting draw into the story.
(http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=286;type=avatar)
mfw
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It's obviously very important for them to see the prophecy fulfilled and stop Dagoth-Ur, or else the Emperor wouldn't be resorting to such measures as pardoning a convict and offering him a position in his elite spy agency. But this simply doesn't jibe with how little they seem to care about you once you're off the boat.
That's because they don't care. Very few people actually give a fuck about the prophecy of the Nerevarine, which is why you have to go around asking specific people about it. The official Empire stance is likely to be "just let the Tribunal do what they're doing", and given that the Nerevarine Cult is all about dismissing the Tribunal, I doubt they had the conscious choice in messing with it.
This is pretty much conjecture on my part, but I think Vivec was responsible in getting the Nerevarine pardoned and shipped off to Vvardenfell. He pretty much alone had a good idea of what Dagoth Ur was planning on doing, while the Tribunal was set on just passively protecting the Ghostfence. Now, here's one of the things I really like about Morrowind: you never do anything as the Nerevarine that another person couldn't have done as well. Contrast to Skyrim where you have the obvious superhero ability in dragon shouting. In fact, you never do anything that straight-up proves you're the Nerevarine, as all you ever do is get recognized as the Nerevarine, first by the Ashlanders and then by the Houses. But ultimately, being recognized would end up being good enough for Vivec's purposes, as the Nerevarine is effectively the only person Dagoth Ur would welcome in his base. Even when you go confront him at the end of the game, he shows disappointment that you're not there to join him instead, as he had expected. This makes the Nerevarine a prime candidate for putting the end to Dagoth Ur's plans, and Vivec was fully aware of that.
Conjecture aside, I don't know why you would assume something when the game is trying to tell you something else entirely. You're correctly interpreting the Imperial stance as not giving a fuck, so why are you so hellbent on thinking it's something else? Like Alexandyr put it,
Seriously, have you played this game?
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Really Saaddaam, stop reading about the game and just play it. I already regret posting the conversation with Dagoth Ur. If you keep saying wrong things I'll end up ruining the entire game trying to correct you. Although I would enjoy reading more of the funny wrong things you have to say, I would rather you just play the game and enjoy it. Same goes for Parsifail and Snupe Dogg, if you two are still trying. If you still don't like the game after giving it a reasonable chance you can return and I'll tell you why you were wrong.
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If you still don't like the game after giving it a reasonable chance you can return and I'll tell you why you were wrong.
I already hate this game. It doesn't even have basic functionality like the ability to knock your opponent over with shells, which Mario Kart has had for decades.
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First of all, you two keep contradicting each other. Stop tag-teaming me and start insulting each other.
Second of all, I have indeed played Morrowind for quite a while, and I do like it overall. I'm just criticizing the beginning of the game as not being a very interesting introduction into the world and story, partially because it tells rather than shows, but mainly because the Empire has already been (to an extent) making arrangements and planning out your path from the very start, which I find to be a very undermining element in a RPG. NO U
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Second of all, I have indeed played Morrowind for quite a while, and I do like it overall. I'm just criticizing the beginning of the game as not being a very interesting introduction into the world and story, partially because it tells rather than shows, but mainly because the Empire has already been (to an extent) making arrangements and planning out your path from the very start, which I find to be a very undermining element in a RPG. NO U
Nitpicking much? Oblvion and Skyrim do the exact same thing, Oblivion moreso than any other ES game. Your character's entire path is determined by higher powers. At least Morrowind's approach is the most subtle of them. Also, how does the main storyline really impact the gameplay as a whole? Can you not find any enjoyment in the adventure because your basic path is predetermined?
Not to mention that your entire path in any game ever made is determined by the developers who made the game. Why aren't you pissed about that? Seems like the same thing to me. Maybe you should stop playing video games?
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First of all, you two keep contradicting each other. Stop tag-teaming me and start insulting each other.
Second of all, I have indeed played Morrowind for quite a while, and I do like it overall. I'm just criticizing the beginning of the game as not being a very interesting introduction into the world and story, partially because it tells rather than shows, but mainly because the Empire has already been (to an extent) making arrangements and planning out your path from the very start, which I find to be a very undermining element in a RPG. NO U
Your criticism is what gave you away as not knowing what you're talking about. You said the game would be better if it did exactly what it already does.
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Second of all, I have indeed played Morrowind for quite a while, and I do like it overall. I'm just criticizing the beginning of the game as not being a very interesting introduction into the world and story, partially because it tells rather than shows, but mainly because the Empire has already been (to an extent) making arrangements and planning out your path from the very start, which I find to be a very undermining element in a RPG. NO U
As someone who has never played an Elder Scrolls game before Morrowind, this is total and utter codswallop. Caius encourages you to go out and seek work. Granted, I only have experience with one of the alternatives he suggests, but I assume any other alternative would have you going out and exploring the world just as running errands for the Mages' Guild does.
If by "shows" you mean "waves in your face", then no, it doesn't. But it does encourage you to go out and see the world for yourself.
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Wealth beyond measure, outlander.
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Nitpicking much? Oblvion and Skyrim do the exact same thing, Oblivion moreso than any other ES game. Your character's entire path is determined by higher powers. At least Morrowind's approach is the most subtle of them. Also, how does the main storyline really impact the gameplay as a whole? Can you not find any enjoyment in the adventure because your basic path is predetermined?
Not to mention that your entire path in any game ever made is determined by the developers who made the game. Why aren't you pissed about that? Seems like the same thing to me. Maybe you should stop playing video games?
I have a feeling that you completely misunderstood my point. I'm not talking about the actions of the player being determined, but the actions of the character itself, within the very context of the story.
Your criticism is what gave you away as not knowing what you're talking about. You said the game would be better if it did exactly what it already does.
No, I said the story would have been more interesting if they had let you approach it from the angle that you're the one who's actively investigating what's going on and trying to solve the mystery, not Caius and the Emperor doing it quietly behind the scenes.
As someone who has never played an Elder Scrolls game before Morrowind, this is total and utter codswallop. Caius encourages you to go out and seek work. Granted, I only have experience with one of the alternatives he suggests, but I assume any other alternative would have you going out and exploring the world just as running errands for the Mages' Guild does.
If by "shows" you mean "waves in your face", then no, it doesn't. But it does encourage you to go out and see the world for yourself.
I was really just referring to the main quest.
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No, I said the story would have been more interesting if they had let you approach it from the angle that you're the one who's actively investigating what's going on and trying to solve the mystery, not Caius and the Emperor doing it quietly behind the scenes.
Are you reading what I'm posting? That is exactly how it works. Caius simply points you towards people that are familiar with Morrowind, its culture, and its religions and superstitions. You go to these people, do a small favor for them, and then they give you information in the form of dialogue, books, and notes. Hasphat even gives you the names of a few rare books you can find to learn more. The only thing the Emperor does behind the scenes is have you released. Caius doesn't know much more than you do about the Neravarine or House Dagon after you've completed the information gathering quests.
In other words check yourself before you vehk yourself
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I can now see why Saddam normally sticks to one post quips and evades entrenched arguments.
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I don't hate Morrowind. It does do a lot of things very well, and I'm still hoping that at some point way down the line I can get back to playing it. But as far as its cult following goes, I suspect that a lot of that stems more from nostalgia and elitism than the actual merits of the game. No, I'm not accusing anyone here of that; I just mean in general.
This is what really rotates my jeremies. There are many reasons this game has a fanatical following, and none of them are that it came out a long time ago. There are a lot of genuine reasons to prefer Morrowind over any other entry in the series, but because it's an older game detractors dismiss the zeal of its fans as nostalgia. Perhaps the only major thing that nostalgia really helps with is tolerating the vanilla graphics. I, like many people, have played the game consistently for 12 years. I've actually experienced more of its content after Oblivion and Skyrim's release than before, so I know my perception isn't distorted by nostalgia. As I've said before, it's my favorite item of entertainment media ever, and I'm not just saying that because I'm drunk. I've said it before.
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I played Oblivion and Skyrim to a large extent before Morrowind, and I still enjoyed Morrowind more. And I suspect it's the same story for a lot of people. I don't see how nostalgia enters into it at all.
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This is what really rotates my jeremies. There are many reasons this game has a fanatical following, and none of them are that it came out a long time ago. There are a lot of genuine reasons to prefer Morrowind over any other entry in the series, but because it's an older game detractors dismiss the zeal of its fans as nostalgia. Perhaps the only major thing that nostalgia really helps with is tolerating the vanilla graphics. I, like many people, have played the game consistently for 12 years. I've actually experienced more of its content after Oblivion and Skyrim's release than before, so I know my perception isn't distorted by nostalgia. As I've said before, it's my favorite item of entertainment media ever, and I'm not just saying that because I'm drunk. I've said it before.
You're not going to concede an inch in this discussion, are you?
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I don't see why you can't just admit that Morrowind has literally 0 flaws and is the best thing since sliced wickwheat bread.
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0 flaws
lol'd
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Can we talk about TESO now?
My Nord is in the Rift, fighting Reachmen. Where are you guys at?
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I went to Skyrim. Everything was suddenly 30 levels higher than me. Undeterred, I snuck past everything and even managed to complete a quest without killing anything. I thought the exp gains would be wicked, but they were not. Although the areas are large, they still must be traversed in a very specific order, which really hurts the sense of exploration.
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This game will punish exploration severely. It fails as an Elder Scrolls game.
But I still like it. :(
The best thing about it is that it's not ridden with bugs and gliches, which is fucking amazing for an Elder Scrolls game.
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If the "best thing" about a game is the fact that it works as intended, is it really a good game?
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I passed a Hand of Almalexia who piped up and delivered to me this brilliant line:
"By the Saints, watch duty is as boring as paperwork."
This line might be acceptable for a lowly city guard, but Her Hands are said to be among the most powerful mortal warriors in Tamriel. They're supposed to be somber religious warriors who have devoted their entire adult lives to Almalexia's protection. Zenimax does not have an affinity for the details like this that are necessary for an enjoyable depiction of Tamriel.
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If the "best thing" about a game is the fact that it works as intended, is it really a good game?
It was an exaggeration.
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What is the best thing about the game, then?
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You can sprint while strafing.
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Epic. Simply epic. Now let's talk about how the Aldmeri Dominion wasn't formed until 300 years after this game takes place, or about how Cyrodiil is once again a boring English countryside rather than a jungle, even though the game takes place before Tiber Septim CHIMMed it up. Although, ZO doesn't even acknowledge that piece of lore. They simply chalked up hundreds of years of written history recorded by dozens of scholars describing Cyrodiil as a jungle to a "transcription error".
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Yes.
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I went to Skyrim. Everything was suddenly 30 levels higher than me. Undeterred, I snuck past everything and even managed to complete a quest without killing anything. I thought the exp gains would be wicked, but they were not. Although the areas are large, they still must be traversed in a very specific order, which really hurts the sense of exploration.
You do know that you're playing an MMO, right?
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I went to Skyrim. Everything was suddenly 30 levels higher than me. Undeterred, I snuck past everything and even managed to complete a quest without killing anything. I thought the exp gains would be wicked, but they were not. Although the areas are large, they still must be traversed in a very specific order, which really hurts the sense of exploration.
You do know that you're playing an MMO, right?
Ah, this again. You do know that not all MMOs adhere to this formula, right?
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I went to Skyrim. Everything was suddenly 30 levels higher than me. Undeterred, I snuck past everything and even managed to complete a quest without killing anything. I thought the exp gains would be wicked, but they were not. Although the areas are large, they still must be traversed in a very specific order, which really hurts the sense of exploration.
You do know that you're playing an MMO, right?
A theme park MMO, you mean. Sandbox MMOs exist.
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I passed a Hand of Almalexia who piped up and delivered to me this brilliant line:
"By the Saints, watch duty is as boring as paperwork."
This line might be acceptable for a lowly city guard, but Her Hands are said to be among the most powerful mortal warriors in Tamriel. They're supposed to be somber religious warriors who have devoted their entire adult lives to Almalexia's protection.
And therefore, they are not allowed to talk.
Epic. Simply epic. Now let's talk about how the Aldmeri Dominion wasn't formed until 300 years after this game takes place
How do you know that? Are you going by this (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pocket_Guide_to_the_Empire,_1st_Edition/Aldmeri_Dominion) piece of scholarly wisdom, which also literally calls the Altmer inbred baby-killers and makes them out to be monsters? A reliable source, to be sure.
or about how Cyrodiil is once again a boring English countryside rather than a jungle, even though the game takes place before Tiber Septim CHIMMed it up. Although, ZO doesn't even acknowledge that piece of lore. They simply chalked up hundreds of years of written history recorded by dozens of scholars describing Cyrodiil as a jungle to a "transcription error".
The discrepancy is there, but I think Bethesda deserves the blame for this one, not ZeniMax. They should have bitten the bullet and admitted they were retconning Cyrodiil a long time ago, rather than dragging it out with the CHIM thing. They knew this game was coming, and they knew that Cyrodiil wasn't going to have any wacky jungle design in it.
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I went to Skyrim. Everything was suddenly 30 levels higher than me. Undeterred, I snuck past everything and even managed to complete a quest without killing anything. I thought the exp gains would be wicked, but they were not. Although the areas are large, they still must be traversed in a very specific order, which really hurts the sense of exploration.
You do know that you're playing an MMO, right?
Ah, this again. You do know that not all MMOs adhere to this formula, right?
Nawwww. You're lying.
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They're not allowed to talk like they're teenagers earning minimum wage. It just doesn't make sense.
Yes, the PGE. It's a respected source of in-game information on a bunch of subjects. I don't think they gave an incorrect date to slander the good Altmer name.
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They're not allowed to talk like they're teenagers earning minimum wage. It just doesn't make sense.
Maybe not. But you're not their boss, you're just some outlander. Maybe they don't care what you think of their professionalism.
Yes, the PGE. It's a respected source of in-game information on a bunch of subjects. I don't think they gave an incorrect date to slander the good Altmer name.
Or they could just be wrong, seeing how they were wrong about so many other things.
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You know what I mean. One of Almalexia's Hands is not going to grumble about guard duty. They know that their duty is quite literally sacred, and they would never wish to reflect so poorly upon the Lady of Mercy. It's just dumb, ESO is dumb, and people that play it are dumb.
I guess the PGE must have been wrong, if we're going to treat ESO as canon. Personally, I like to believe that the entire game is actually just a wildly innacurate holofilm released sometime in the Digital Era.
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You're playing ESO. Are you dumb?
On the notion of people who play games they hate.
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I am when I'm playing it.
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I curse a lot when I go up agains bosses who are several levels higher than me and gets killed. I can usually do high level quests fine. But suddenly, boss. Omg rape.
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On the notion of people who play games they hate.
I paid for a month. I'm going to get my money's worth of non-fun. Actually, I do have fun while playing it. The environmental design is excellent. They really nailed the feel of the province of Morrowind. I just don't think ESO does the series justice. It is upsetting to lore whores.
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The environments looks good, yes. Character designs are a bit cartoony though, and there are way too many non-red-eyed dunmers.
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Every face is so bland looking. All of the distinguishing features of the mer races have been melted away, and now they all look like plain Hollywood elves who are wearing too much makeup.
(http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/uVgY_83BpPI/maxresdefault.jpg)
Also, Orcs just look utterly retarded.
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I think Skyrim has perfect character desings. They should have gone with those. Just my opinion.
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Skyrim perfect
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Yes, that's something that Skyrim did very well. All of those Oblivion potato face jokes must have really hurt somebody's feelings.
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I'm annoyed by all those pretty face mods people shit out on skyrim nexus and steam workshop.
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I think Skyrim has perfect character desings. They should have gone with those. Just my opinion.
(http://images.uesp.net/thumb/2/22/MW-creature-Vivec.jpg/600px-MW-creature-Vivec.jpg)
Don't be absurd.
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Such creativity.
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Metaphorical brevity. Truly, such is the masterful creativity of Morrowind.
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Indeed. Observe his half-Dunmer, half-Chimer design. He visually communicates the duality of the Dunmer. It is deep.
They really nailed the feel of the province of Morrowind.
I bet you wouldn't say that if Vvardenfell was available to explore.
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Probably. Also, that isn't the reason for Vivec's coloration. The UESP is usually wrong about things like that.
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Probably. Also, that isn't the reason for Vivec's coloration. The UESP is usually wrong about things like that.
Go on, tell us what it really is, then. You know you want to.
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It's related more to his own binary nature and his relationship to Sotha Sil and Almalexia. He's a hermaphrodite, he's bipolar, and he exists simultaneously in multiple universes. He is the "warrior poet", who has mastered both grace and violence. He's sort of the middle-ground between Almalexia (feminine) and Sotha Sil (masculine), as he embodies both feminine and masculine traits. It's implied in the 36 lessons that Sotha Sil and Almalexia could not have become gods without Vivec, the joining element.
That's an extremely abridged explanation, but I think you get the idea. Vivec is probably the most realised character in videogame fiction. Michael Kirkbride became obsessed with him, and wrote at least a novel's worth of information regarding his life. In fact, he still occasionally produces new tidbits of (usually very obscure) lore related to Morrowind and Vivec.
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His design is still dum
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The specifics of his physical appearance were probably inspired by Ardhanarishvara (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ardhanarishvara), the androgynous combination of the Hindu gods Shiva and Parvati.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/God_marriage_AS.jpg)
THAT's dumb.
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Why isn't his eye red on his Dunmer side?
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Good question. Presumably just an oversight on Bethesda's part. His eyes are different in the concept art.
(http://images.uesp.net/9/9f/MW-concept-07.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/v375UHa.jpg)
The discrepancy is there, but I think Bethesda deserves the blame for this one, not ZeniMax. They should have bitten the bullet and admitted they were retconning Cyrodiil a long time ago, rather than dragging it out with the CHIM thing. They knew this game was coming, and they knew that Cyrodiil wasn't going to have any wacky jungle design in it.
ZO could have simply said that Tiber's manipulation of the environment worked retroactively as well. There's already a precedent for CHIM usage affecting time both ways, in the form of Vivec's revision of his own past. Instead, it's a transcription error.
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Michael Kirkbride became obsessed with him, and wrote at least a novel's worth of information regarding his life. In fact, he still occasionally produces new tidbits of (usually very obscure) lore related to Morrowind and Vivec.
I've heard about that. His writings are somewhat controversial in the fan community. Some people say that he's a magnificent writer working tirelessly to enrich the lore; others say that without Bethesda officially "endorsing" the stuff he writes, he's really just a guy writing copious amounts of fanfiction. The truth most likely lies somewhere in the middle.
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Praise Vivec!
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Although MK hasn't been a full time Bethesda employee since 2000, he has consistently been doing work for them as an independent contractor ever since. He has been hugely important in shaping the series. Some even go as far as to say that without Kirkbride, the Elder Scrolls would just be another typical Tolkein-fantasy borefest. All of the most important religious texts in the series were written by him: The 36 Lessons of Vivec, The Commentaries on the Mysterium Xarxes, The Song of Pelinal, and the Nu-Mantia Intercept (most of which later became part of the Book of the Dragonborn). Bethesda even uses material that he creates on his own time. Heimksr quotes passages from From The Many Headed Talos verbatim. The Seven Fights of the Aldudagga and The Five Hundred Mighty Companions or Thereabouts of Ysgramor the Returned are responsible for a lot of lore elements in Skyrim, including Whiterun's Companions and the culture of giants.
There's no debate regarding whether or not Bethesda endorses MK's work. The controversy arises from ES fans who can't stomach his more outlandish works - particularly the science fiction. Loveletter From the 5th Era and C0DA, for example. Both can be read here (http://c0da.es/). Some people think that this sort of thing has no place in muh dungeons and dragons. Joke's on them, though. The Elder Scrolls has been sci-fi fantasy ever since work began on Morrowind.
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And he also wrote Mankar Camoran's dialogue in Oblivion. His influence is undeniable!
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Yes, well, nobody's perfect.
The 36 Lessons of Vivec is my favorite text in the series. At one point, Vivec inserts his "milk finger" into some woman's mouth to prevent her from using Thu'um.
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Has Bethesda ever said explicitly that the stuff that Kirkbride writes is automatically valid lore, or does it just become lore if Bethesda decides to quote it in-game?
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No, they have never explicitly said that we must listen to this guy all the time. Otherwise there wouldn't be any controversy. They've also never contradicted any of his supplementary works.
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No, they have never explicitly said that we must listen to this guy all the time. Otherwise there wouldn't be any controversy. They've also never contradicted any of his supplementary works.
Ha! Then there is a debate! But you do raise a good point, Bethesda has never firmly denied that this space opera is an official part of the Elder Scrolls universe, so...
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I saw a mod for Skyrim once that adds Pelinal Whitestrake in his Crusader armour as a follower. And the description claims that he's a cyborg from the future, and that it's canon. I tried to look for proof of this but came up with nothing. Know anything about this?
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No, they have never explicitly said that we must listen to this guy all the time. Otherwise there wouldn't be any controversy. They've also never contradicted any of his supplementary works.
Ha! Then there is a debate! But you do raise a good point, Bethesda has never firmly denied that this space opera is an official part of the Elder Scrolls universe, so...
Right. I should have said that Bethesda has endorsed a lot of his work. He's remained good friends with a lot of the people at BGS, and I'm sure he'll continue to work with them in the future. I heard a rumor that he offered to write for ESO, but was rejected. Which reminds me...
(http://i.imgur.com/H4QP533.jpg)
I saw a mod for Skyrim once that adds Pelinal Whitestrake in his Crusader armour as a follower. And the description claims that he's a cyborg from the future, and that it's canon. I tried to look for proof of this but came up with nothing. Know anything about this?
Yes. Two of MK's posts addressing Pelinal:
Pelinal, his closest mythical model would be Gilgamesh, with a dash of a T-800 thrown in, and a full-serving of brain-fracture slaughterhouse antinomial (Kill)3 functions stuck in his hand or head. We tend to forgive those heroes.
Pelinal was and is an insane collective swarmfoam war-fractal from the future, you betcha.
(in response to the question "is Pelinal really a cyborg?")
All of his forum posts are archived here. (http://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archives-michael-kirkbride)
Here are a few passages from The Song of Pelinal:
he was Pelinal the Whitestrake because of his left hand, made of a killing light
[...]
[And then] Kyne granted Perrif another symbol, a diamond soaked red with the blood of elves, [whose] facets could [un-sector and form] into a man whose every angle could cut her jailers and a name: PELIN-EL [which is] "The Star-Made Knight" [and he] was arrayed in armor [from the future time].
[...]
[and they] fell on him [speaking] to their weapons... cutting the Pelinal into eighths while he roared in confusion [which even] the Council of Skiffs [could hear]
[...]
It was Morihaus who found the Whitestrake's head, which the kings had left to prove their deeds and they spoke and Pelinal said things of regrets...
Apart from the ellipses, the bracketed text is not my doing. That's how it's written. The full manuscript can be read here. (http://www.imperial-library.info/content/song-pelinal)
Oh, I asked some guy on /r/teslore why he didn't accept MK's "far future shit", and he responded:
Because his trippy future is divorced from the current narrative Elder Scrolls is telling in Betheda's hands and Kirkbride personally called me an expletive-laced string of words.
Classic Cockbird.
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And for the last time (uh huh), Nedes != Atmorans. That's just shoddy scholarship from a bygone regime.
Ha! I knew it! TESO has got it wrong.
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Yikes...can't say I'm particularly fond of the sci-fi time-traveling robot things either.
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Robots (or automatons, if you want to sound cool) are nothing new to ES, though. They've been around for as long as Arena, in the form of iron golems. Of course, they didn't have a major presence until Redguard introduced the Dwemer. Time travel and the idea of non-linear time has also been a part of the series for a very long time. "Robot" is just a convenient and simple comparison to make. Shapeshifting diamond battle lattice or insane collective swarmfoam war-fractal aren't quite as accessible as descriptions.
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all elder scrolls sucks nob
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ebic mene
Just found this. I don't know enough about the cosmology to nitpick, but I'm sure there are problems. It's cool, though. I'm a little miffed that the flat plane is reserved for the "crazy" prince, but at least one of them got it right.
(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2014/039/c/d/the_elder_scrolls__cosmology_by_okiir-d757i0g.png)
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Here we see Kirkbride's unique contribution to TESO lore:
http://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/1oa0q9/queen_ayrenn_was_and_is_named_properly_kinmune/
And to think that ZeniMax actually chose not to give this guy a job.
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:-\
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Most of that was originally written in 2011. Lady Nerevar seems to be the one who added the connection between KINMUNE and Queen Ayrenn. If the rumor is true, they certainly didn't turn him away because they don't respect his work. After all, they've taken ideas from his writings just like Bethesda.
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ebic mene
Just found this. I don't know enough about the cosmology to nitpick, but I'm sure there are problems. It's cool, though. I'm a little miffed that the flat plane is reserved for the "crazy" prince, but at least one of them got it right.
(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2014/039/c/d/the_elder_scrolls__cosmology_by_okiir-d757i0g.png)
Why is the left side or Nirn and the other bodies lit up when the sun is on the right side?
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Can we complain about TESO's lore now? Everyone just blurt out anything you see that contradicts the lore.
lore lore lore
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Altmeri cities are now all Rivendell.
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Half of the world is inaccessible! >o<
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Mountains blocking the way where there aren't supposed to be any mountains.
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It's interesting that nobody has ever mentioned or mapped the enormous volcanoes that are now all over the Morrowind mainland.
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Leyawiin and Bravil don't exist.
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Leyawiin and Bravil don't exist.
Maybe you just can't go there. Can you go to Anvil?
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I dun goofed. Southwestern and southeastern Cyrodiil aren't available to explore, so Leyawiin and Anvil naturally wouldn't be on the map. Bravil is the spot that's symbolized on the map, but when you get there, there's just a bunch of walls and buildings with no doors. Certainly no people.
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Bravil is the spot that's symbolized on the map, but when you get there, there's just a bunch of walls and buildings with no doors. Certainly no people.
wat
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https://imgur.com/a/8VWJo#0
It's very strange. It doesn't even pop up as "BRAVIL DISCOVERED" or anything, but at the same time, the text in the upper right-hand corner that tells you your location does label it as Bravil, so we know that that's what it's supposed to be.
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I think there are two buildings outside the city walls in Oblivion. The stables, and a skooma den (I think) a bit further away. Looks like no one is home by the time of TESO, and the city is in lockdown maybe?
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That's weird
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I just realized that the name Vivec's Antlers is a reference to MK. On the internet, he usually goes by the name Merry Eyesore the Elk, or just The Elk. And, of course, Vivec is his baby.
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Reading the ESO forums is agonizing, because I can't make an account to correct any of the dumb things. You need an "invitation code" to register, and apparently buying the game doesn't warrant the receipt of an invitation code. Does anybody know anything about that? Anyway, it's mostly stuff like this:
Sorry mate but who "wrote" the lore?
Because the majority of the Lore in the Imperial Library, is written by the fan base. Not by the person who created the ES lore.
When we delve more into Lores, Cannons and "Bibles" we look at the tree and miss the forest.
Enjoy the game for what it is. After all what you perceive as "Lore" is not written yet. :) in TESO era.
Also, "OT" is probably the most worthless abbreviation ever. People use it to mean both on topic and off topic.
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They should have emailed you an invitation code. Also, on the subject of the thread you're quoting from:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/123147/why-does-this-game-insist-on-totally-breaking-the-lore
I don't understand his first point. He goes on and on about Alduin's Wall, and eventually concludes with "and that's why the Soulburst couldn't happen." What?
I have now completed the Fighters Guild and Mages Guild questlines. They were pretty good, if perhaps a bit short. And I am dissapoint that there's no Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood. BAAAWWWWW!!!!!
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And I am dissapoint that there's no Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood. BAAAWWWWW!!!!!
They're so sneaky that you haven't found them yet.
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They should have emailed you an invitation code. Also, on the subject of the thread you're quoting from:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/123147/why-does-this-game-insist-on-totally-breaking-the-lore
I don't understand his first point. He goes on and on about Alduin's Wall, and eventually concludes with "and that's why the Soulburst couldn't happen." What?
I've checked all my emails from ZOS. Nothing. Fortunately Lady Neravar addressed the post that was bothering me.
That guy is just autistic. I barely skimmed his OP. Looks like he just copied a bunch of stuff from wikis.
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http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/123714/which-pov-do-you-prefer
This may not be representative of the player base, but ugh. What kind of ES fans play the game in third person! >o<
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http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/123714/which-pov-do-you-prefer
This may not be representative of the player base, but ugh. What kind of ES fans play the game in third person! >o<
The kind that know there is a very real strategic benefit to being able to observe the entirety of your surroundings; this is opposed to a first person mode that doesn't even offer a resemblance to a realistic human field of view.
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I enjoyed the post about not even using first person "in real life". That guy has definitely acheived CHIM.
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http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/123714/which-pov-do-you-prefer
This may not be representative of the player base, but ugh. What kind of ES fans play the game in third person! >o<
The kind that know there is a very real strategic benefit to being able to observe the entirety of your surroundings; this is opposed to a first person mode that doesn't even offer a resemblance to a realistic human field of view.
There's also a strategic benefit in being able to see what you're doing and what your enemy is doing. In third person mode, you're instead staring at the back of your head during battles.
Also, I created a Redguard Templar. I called him Tyrone Blackman.
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Also, I created a Redguard Templar. I called him Tyrone Blackman.
That's racist.
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I called him Tyrone Blackman.
That is neither funny nor is it lore lore lore.
By the way. Why are 99,999999999% of all players so uncreative when it comes to character names? At least yours resembles a real name, but most people just seem to use random words along with random numbers.
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There's also a strategic benefit in being able to see what you're doing and what your enemy is doing properly.
What does this even mean? I'm sure this sentence is the result of you having a rather fascinating definition of "properly."
In third person mode, you're instead staring at the back of your head during battles.
While staring at the back of your character's head while in third person is an option, it certainly isn't suggested and definitely isn't some inescapable fact. To avoid staring at the back of your character's head, I endear you to look at something else other than the back of your character's head. If this advice does not resolve the problem, I suggest seeing an optometrist, as the motor function of your eyes might be impaired.
Why are 99,999999999% of all players so uncreative when it comes to character names?
Maybe you should ask yourself and see what the answer is, beardo.
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Okay, Rushy. I removed the "properly" from that sentence, as it was a bit superfluous. And what I meant in my criticism of third person mode is that a lot of the time your body blocks your view of enemies. I also find it difficult to properly aim in third person.
I called him Tyrone Blackman.
That is neither funny nor is it lore lore lore.
You have to admit it is kind of funny.
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Maybe you should ask yourself and see what the answer is, beardo.
I come up with names for my characters that actually sounds like they would belong to people in the Elder Scrolls universe, rather than callin them things like G0d-sl4yerXXX91.
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Also, I created a Redguard Templar. I called him Tyrone Blackman.
(http://pigroll.com/img/tyrone_lannister.jpg)
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Okay, Rushy. I removed the "properly" from that sentence, as it was a bit superfluous. And what I meant in my criticism of third person mode is that a lot of the time your body blocks your view of enemies. I also find it difficult to properly aim in third person.
I never had that problem when I played (which was third person). You keep wanting this game to be TES, but you have to accept that it is WoW now. You don't see many videos of people playing WoW in first person because first person on an MMO puts you at a disadvantage.
I come up with names for my characters that actually sounds like they would belong to people in the Elder Scrolls universe, rather than callin them things like G0d-sl4yerXXX91.
God-Slayer could easily be a Nordic name, especially since there is already a Nord named God-Hater.
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You keep wanting this game to be TES, but you have to accept that it is WoW now.
noooooooooooo
I come up with names for my characters that actually sounds like they would belong to people in the Elder Scrolls universe, rather than callin them things like G0d-sl4yerXXX91.
God-Slayer could easily be a Nordic name, especially since there is already a Nord named God-Hater.
God-Slayer could be, but not G0d-sl4yerXXX91.
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God-Slayer could be, but not G0d-sl4yerXXX91.
That is Zenimax's fault for not acknowledging that multiple people could have the same name.
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You keep wanting this game to be TES, but you have to accept that it is WoW now.
That is kind of insulting. WoW is actually open world.
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God-Slayer could be, but not G0d-sl4yerXXX91.
That is Zenimax's fault for not acknowledging that multiple people could have the same name.
Actually the person who couldn't come up with an original and appealing name would be at fault.
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Actually the person who couldn't come up with an original and appealing name would be at fault.
There is no (good) reason to not allow duplicate character names. Furthermore, there is no such thing as an original name.
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Furthermore, there is no such thing as an original name.
What do you mean? Every possible combination of syllables has already been used? What about Hundrskrundonskrillimundenfax?
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What do you mean? Every possible combination of syllables has already been used? What about Hundrskrundonskrillimundenfax?
Do not confuse novel with original.
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What do you mean? Every possible combination of syllables has already been used? What about Hundrskrundonskrillimundenfax?
Do not confuse novel with original.
Too late, I've already confused them. Please explain the difference.
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Too late, I've already confused them. Please explain the difference.
Novel works combine already existing concepts. Original works must be just that, original. They can not imitate in any way, shape, or form, that which has existed before. Thus it is impossible for the human mind to actually fathom an original idea. The human mind can only reshape that which already exists, it can not create original works, only novel ones.
For example, if I were to take a square and fashion six of them together, creating a cube, this would be a novel way to display squares (assuming my audience has never seen a cube). A cube is not my original work, I simply combined squares in a novel manner. We all stand on the shoulders of giants which are thus formed in a similar fashion to an ever increasing house of cards.
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Too late, I've already confused them. Please explain the difference.
Novel works combine already existing concepts. Original works must be just that, original. They can not imitate in any way, shape, or form, that which has existed before. Thus it is impossible for the human mind to actually fathom an original idea. The human mind can only reshape that which already exists, it can not create original works, only novel ones.
For example, if I were to take a square and fashion six of them together, creating a cube, this would be a novel way to display squares (assuming my audience has never seen a cube). A cube is not my original work, I simply combined squares in a novel manner.
In the future, could you do us all a favor and just get the retarded stuff out of the way right at the beginning of an exchange? It would save a lot of time.
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In the future, could you do us all a favor and just get the retarded stuff out of the way right at the beginning of an exchange? It would save a lot of time.
You're debating incorrectly. The technique is dodge, then stab, all you're doing in this post is dodging.
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In the future, could you do us all a favor and just get the retarded stuff out of the way right at the beginning of an exchange? It would save a lot of time.
You're debating incorrectly. The technique is dodge, then stab, all you're doing in this post is dodging.
Haha, oh wow.
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I never thought I'd say this, but let's go back to Morrowhine. Before Rushy rushes over this thread any more.
Lastly, the voice acting that is present is actually some of the best in the series. There's a reason people have been whining about bringing back Jeff Baker's Dunmer voice ever since Oblivion's release. Listen for yourself:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvkjmnRRcG4
It's genuinely unnerving to hear an Ordinator growl something like "let's not make this official, outlander... move along."
While this guy is definitely a million times better than the foppish pansy that replaced him in Oblivion, there's no way that voice would have worked in a setting other than delivering the odd line here and there. He sounds like the Dark Knight, for crying out loud. Nobody would be able to get through a conversation with him because they'd be too busy laughing their asses off. He makes the Ahnold impersonator from Skyrim sound positively natural in comparison.
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They did records Dunmer dialogues with Baker, but they decided to not use them. The potato-faces wouldn't have worked with his Dunmer voice at all.
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(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i29/YamiArne/LPOblivionDarkElf.jpg)
I do not speak with vagrants.
Yeah, it doesn't really work.
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You can see a conversation using Baker's voice early in this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjbx6-KQoRg
I remember being so excited by the AI demonstrated in that video.
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>invites you upstairs
>starts practicing archery
Glad they ditched this shit
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If the dog didn't piss her off things definitely would have heated up.
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Huge fucking update going on now. Maybe they've implemented that new face animation engine for more natural expressions and lip syncing.
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No, they've said that the new facial animation system won't be released for a while.
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fug
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You can see a conversation using Baker's voice early in this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjbx6-KQoRg
I remember being so excited by the AI demonstrated in that video.
Wow. Such blatant lies.
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Apparently the first iteration of Radiant AI was much more advanced. So much more, in fact, that NPCs started doing crazy things like killing each other for food if they had no other option. Their behavior was too extreme, so Bethesda lobotomized everybody's AI. Basically like the exact plot of Shutter Island. Even so, that E3 demo is inexcusable. By the grace of hindsight, it's obvious that the entire interaction was very carefully crafted by hand.
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Apparently the first iteration of Radiant AI was much more advanced. So much more, in fact, that NPCs started doing crazy things like killing each other for food if they had no other option. Their behavior was too extreme, so Bethesda lobotomized everybody's AI.
I know, after reading about the Radiant AI system I'm so damn upset that they got rid of it. I don't care how out of control the game got, it would be so amazing
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I remember being so excited by the AI demonstrated in that video.
Wow. Such blatant lies.
They didn't necessarily lie, its just that the radiant AI is so broken and frustrating to use that not even the developers themselves really used it in the way the video portrays. The AI system is also what scared away a lot of Oblivion modders, in order to create even the most simple NPC you must do nonsense things such as tell them how hungry they are.
Apparently the first iteration of Radiant AI was much more advanced. So much more, in fact, that NPCs started doing crazy things like killing each other for food if they had no other option. Their behavior was too extreme, so Bethesda lobotomized everybody's AI. Basically like the exact plot of Shutter Island. Even so, that E3 demo is inexcusable. By the grace of hindsight, it's obvious that the entire interaction was very carefully crafted by hand.
Well the obvious fix is to give them more food. I'd honestly murder other people for food, too, if that was the only option left.
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They didn't necessarily lie, its just that the radiant AI is so broken and frustrating to use that not even the developers themselves really used it in the way the video portrays. The AI system is also what scared away a lot of Oblivion modders, in order to create even the most simple NPC you must do nonsense things such as tell them how hungry they are.
The fact that they presented such an obviously scripted scene as being a product of the AI is itself an enormous lie.
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The fact that they presented such an obviously scripted scene as being a product of the AI is itself an enormous lie.
They were demonstrating what the AI can do, I don't think they were necessarily saying "this is a hands-off video of us playing the game."
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I just killed Mannimarco.
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Obviously not, since we kill him in Oblivion.
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I just killed Mannimarco.
In TESO? How does that work?
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According to the TESO wiki, you can only free mannimarco in a quest or leave him. It doesn't say anything about you being able to fight/kill him. That would be utterly world-breaking.
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According to the TESO wiki, you can only free mannimarco in a quest or leave him. It doesn't say anything about you being able to fight/kill him. That would be utterly world-breaking.
That's part of a later quest, it looks like. I guess it's his soul or spirit that you have the option of freeing, and canonically he must have been able to find a way to...bring himself back to life? Not sure if that's how necromancy works in these games.
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Not sure if that's how necromancy works in these games.
I don't see why not. Surely someone could write in whatever nonsense they wanted to bring Mannimarco back if you do actually kill him in TESO. Although, most necromancy I've seen in ES usually doesn't bring people back correctly. They are usually not quite right when they come back, or are just zombied.
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Replying to this here so as to avoid cluttering up the other thread:
I'm playing Skyrim again. The Dragonborn expansion, specifically. Isn't it funny that Bethesda's two best expansion packs since Morrowind's release (Shivering Isles and Dragonborn) are both heavily inspired by Morrowind? More supporting evidence for the case that any videogame that isn't Morrowind 2 is a waste of money and time.
It's supporting evidence for the case that Bethesda does their best work when they steer clear of dumb tropes like Standard Fantasy Setting (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StandardFantasySetting) or Medieval European Fantasy (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MedievalEuropeanFantasy) and instead focus on coming up with their own unique, creative settings. You don't want to see a rehash of Morrowind. You might think you do, but you really don't.
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I literally do, though. That's why I'm excited about Skywind.
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...Why? That's just Morrowind without all the shit that makes Morrowind cool.
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What, like the epic combat? Mostly I'll just be walking around to see what changes they've made to the landscape. Also, I prefer Skyrim's classless levelling system.
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A couple of corrections I need to make:
Not with all the stuff they could have put into the game in its place. Things like the Thieves Guild, the Dark Brotherhood, the Companions, the Morag Tong, the rest of the fucking map, etc.
The Companions and the Morag Tong actually are in this game. Not as joinable guilds or anything, but nevertheless, they are present.
I've only seen John Cleese and Alfred Molina briefly so far, but they seem to do all right.
Molina does quite well as Abnur Tharn, his not remembering his favorite line when he was being interviewed notwithstanding. Cleese sounds pretty bored.
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The Thirty-Six Lessons of Vivec.
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The Thirty-Six Lessons of Vivec.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZUTFDGtquo&list=PL1UyjN9xuIDyyia8I5FVe3fv_ptXsQLgc
mispronounces Vivec within first two seconds
epic
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vie-vec
Even TESO pronounces Vivec's name right! >o< Also:
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=12855.msg189618#msg189618
Okay, so rant time.
FIRSTLY! They fucked up the lore so badly that you wouldn't believe.
Exhibit A: Cyrodiil is a temperate forest-filled, plain-covered cliche fantasy setting. Read previous books from the past games and you will note that Cyrodiil is a JUNGLE with a few big cities sitting in the middle of it. A JUNGLE. Not a forest.
Exhibit B: "Oblivion" is Hell--and one big, crappy cliche. Okay, think about this for a while...Mehrunes Dagon is a crazy god and an evil genius. Why would his pocket of Oblivion be so ridiculously cliched? There aren't many books covering Dagon's lair, but the one that does describes it as eerie and ominous with dead forests and a dull silence. When I walked through the portal to Dagon's pocket, what I got was not eerie, creepy, nor did it display dead forests or eerie silence. It was a cliche fantasy of Hell, with goddamned LAVA PITS. Bullshit.
Exhibit C: Mannimarco, the King of Worms is a high elf fool who took about three hits and a fireball cast to get rid of him as the 'boss' on a minor subquest in the game. Umm...Mannimarco is a DEMIGOD. He used to be a mortal, but he was never a high elf, and way back when during the dragon shift, he got turned into a GOD by the Numidium. I mean, for Christ's sakes if it was that easy to kill him, you would think that he wouldn't have been a problem at all for the mage's guild or the imperial guard to do themselves.
Exhibit D (I'm gonna keep going): The Imperial City is a piece of shit. Firstly, it very, very roughly follows previous books' examples of what's going on in there. It's also barely bigger than fricking BALMORA, for God's sakes. It's TINY compared to what it's supposed to be. White-Gold Tower was supposed to be HUMONGOUS, not a little stick stuck in the ground in the middle of a crappy-looking city. I mean, COME ON. This is Rome, this is Byzantium, this is Alexandria, this is Athens, and they made it a tiny, little village on a small island.
Exhibit E: Deer? Deer?! Cyrodiil is supposed to be more "normal" than Morrowind or Daggerfall, yes, but DEER?! I loved Elder Scrolls way back when because it was ORIGINAL. When you're walking through Morrowind, you encounter Silt Striders, Cliff Riders, and a series of fantastical beasts. When you're walking through Murkwood or Daggerfall or wherever, you encounter similarly strange creatures that you couldn't even imagine. Instead of that, Oblivion gives me DEER.
There are numerous other examples, but I'm thinking you're getting the picture here.
Next on the chopping block: Modding capabilities.
One thing that really MADE the Elder Scrolls series what they were was the modding community. New mods came out every day, and they were all so much fun, and I was expecting this with Oblivion...but no. Why? Because it's impossible.
I modded for Daggerfall and Morrowind. I still can't mod for Oblivion. It's ridiculous.
The AI system, for one (you know, the "radiant AI" which never ended up working how it was supposed to?), was impossible to use. For every NPC, you have to put in their wishes, their goals, their ambitions. Hell, if you want a guard standing in the middle of a city, patrolling, you can't just tell him to patrol the area, you have to tell him how fucking HUNGRY he is. I DON'T CARE HOW HUNGRY HE IS.
Next, the model imports/exports. The models are hardcoded into the game. They can't be touched except with outside programs. WHY the devs decided to do this, I have no idea, but it really fucked things up. It means that new weapons, new armor, new ANYTHING is practically impossible to import into the game.
Then there's the questing. Instead of making things simple like they did in the previous games, you have to have a sound file attached to each and every person in the game, you need to have a journal entry which is SEPARATE from the actual quest, and then you need a compass point for everything. I can't even convey how annoying it is to have to make a quest in Oblivion.
It's honestly no wonder why the modding community stayed on Morrowind.
Then there's the gameplay features.
A compass? Why the hell do I need a compass? In Morrowind, Daggerfall, and Arena, part of the fun in things was having to go out into the wilderness, and blaze your own trails, and look for this and that while fighting off enemies and trying to stay to your path. In Oblivion, you just warp to a few feet away, and then follow an arrow that tells you where you need to be...Hmmm...
The combat system is also a piece of crap. It turned the whole game into a hack'n'slash, not an RPG. Morrowind was borderline, but Oblivion really sealed the deal, and it barely has anything to do with skill or player-build anymore.
Then there's the leveled lists. I barely want to even get started on these. The devs' laziness reeeeally taxed the game, and it shows in the leveled lists the most. "Wow, this monster is really hard for me to kill. I guess I'll go have to train up my skills and come back........Phwew that was a taxing workout, but now I feel really strong and powerful. Here I come, you...you're totally not the monster that was here before..." If you go and train your own character in hopes to defeat a monster that you couldn't beat before, you come back five levels stronger, and WHAT DO YOU KNOW? The monster that was hard to beat is now TWENTY levels stronger than it was before, and even harder to beat.
Not to mention, the leveled lists also screw with loot. The boards for a while were raging wild with examples of how they found a rat carrying two forks and a spoon...in its backpack? Or how a headless zombie was carrying two heads along with it for no apparent reason. A personal example is when I was waltzing around killing Imperial Guards, and I found one with a myriad of gems and expensive things. I'm sure it's the guard's pay that allowed him to buy all of these things and he was just carrying them around the Imperial City in hopes that someone might come along to kill him and steal all his stuff...right?
Oh, and don't forget the bandits. You know, those poor highway men on the street who are going and attacking people to scrounge up some exta money even though they're already donned in full elven mithril, bejewled rings and necklesses, and priceless swords...every penny counts?
Here's where I'm going to stop for now. I can think of countless other jewels of idiocy that I encountered in the game, but I think I made my point. Oblivion would still be an alright game if it wasn't part of a series. Unfortunately, and something that I think Bethesda forgot entirely, the game IS part of a series, and, imagine this, they have a fanbase who respected them and waited eagerly for a game that they never got.
~D-Draw
Many of his points are wrong. Mannimarco was indeed an Altmer, and it was only ever rumored that the Dragon Break (which is presumably what he meant when he said "dragon shift") turned him into a god. It's actually kind of funny that anyone would try to point to an event as incredibly (and deliberately) vague as the Warp in the West as evidence of any detail of lore. The Imperial City is far larger than Balmora. And his description of the Deadlands is wrong. Here's the book he must have misread:
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Doors_of_Oblivion
'I am in a storm,' he told me as he entered the next realm. He described the landscape of dark twisted trees, howling spirits, and billowing mist, and I thought he might have entered the Deadlands of Mehrunes Dagon. But then he said quickly, 'No, I am no longer in a forest. There was a flash of lightning, and now I am on a ship. The mast is tattered. The crew is slaughtered. Something is coming through the waves … oh, gods … Wait, now, I am in a dank dungeon, in a cell …'
He was not in the Deadlands, but Quagmire, the nightmare realm of Vaernima.
derp
I also assume he was talking about quest markers when he said "compass." Even though Morrowind doesn't have a compass, for some unfathomable reason.
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Even though Morrowind doesn't have a compass, for some unfathomable reason.
It has a minimap instead.
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I'm pretty sure he meant "compass" when he said "compass". You can't stumble on anything unexpectedly with the compass.
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<Saddam> This game's ridiculous choices
<Saddam> It automatically kills you if you get too close to the Imperial City
<Snupes> wat
<Saddam> Yeah, they call it "environmental damage" and it registers as 0 damage
<Blanko> How does dying work in TESO
<Saddam> But it just automtically kills you
<Saddam> When you die you respawn at a wayshrine
<beardo> you respawn at a wayshrine, or if you have a full soulgem, you can respawn in palce
<beardo> place, even
<Saddam> And there's a perk you can get that allows you to respawn right there once an hour
<beardo> Yes
<beardo> But all the enemies in the area will have full HP again once you respawn
<Blanko> >once an hour
<Blanko> So you can always respawn right where you die, right? :^)
<Saddam> No
<Blanko> Saddam dies more than once an hour, confirmed
<Saddam> The game is super-difficult
<Blanko> lol
<Snupes> It's literally the Dark Souls of MMOs
<Blanko> Dark Souls isn't hard though
<beardo> It's only difficult when you're in high level areas
<Snupes> Blanko does not need to play a game to know its difficulty
<Snupes> He is literlaly Rishy
<Saddam> All of Cyrodiil is high-level
<Blanko> They wouldn't make a TES game hard
<Saddam> Because they apparently want to discourage PvP
<beardo> If you're level 20, and you try to fight level 30 enemies, you run a big chanse of getting killed
<Blanko> Gotta pander to the fanbase of literally babies
<Blanko> beardo: Uh no shit
<Blanko> Pretty sure you're supposed to be killing things of your level m80
<Snupes> Where's the fun if you can't put a ton of time and effort into taking down things way more powerful than you
<beardo> punishing exploration
<Blanko> Yes
<beardo> I killed a level 21 boss when I was level 14
<beardo> It took a few tries
<Blanko> They want to railroad you through the Correct Way to Play The Game
<Saddam> Linear Theme Park
<beardo> Some quests doesn't even involve killing anyone, so those are always easy even if they are 15 levels higher than you are
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Or it could just be a regular compass, not one that shows you locations before you've discovered them.
Yeah, it could be... but it isn't. Not sure what you're saying.
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I'm saying that it makes no sense to complain about there being a compass in general if your complaint is really that the way the compass works is bad.
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I'm saying that it makes no sense to complain about there being a compass in general if your complaint is really that the way the compass works is bad.
Are you trying to say that complaining about something being designed badly makes no sense? Because I think it makes a lot of sense... what other reason is there to complain about anything?
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I'm saying that it makes no sense to complain about there being a compass in general if your complaint is really that the way the compass works is bad.
You're an idiot.
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But you're a cunt.
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Oooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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I'm saying that it makes no sense to complain about there being a compass in general if your complaint is really that the way the compass works is bad.
Are you trying to say that complaining about something being designed badly makes no sense? Because I think it makes a lot of sense... what other reason is there to complain about anything?
I didn't say anything even remotely similar to that.
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You're an idiot.
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TES gets personal.
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get trolled
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You're an idiot.
I'm beginning to notice something about you in this thread:
http://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/warriorshtm/bigdogmetoo.htm
You are literally Me-Too. You were soundly thrashed when you foolishly tried to claim that Oblivion was the best ES game, and now you're just trying to ally yourself with anything that Alexandyr says. I see through you!
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You're an idiot.
I'm beginning to notice something about you in this thread:
http://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/warriorshtm/bigdogmetoo.htm
You are literally Me-Too. You were soundly thrashed when you foolishly tried to claim that Oblivion was the best ES game, and now you're just trying to ally yourself with anything that Alexandyr says. I see through you!
You're still an idiot and Oblivion is still the best ES game. Deal with it.
If I saw Alex in real life I'd probably stab him.
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Mods, please arrest Vauxhall.
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Oblivion is still the best ES game. Deal with it.
Generic LotR fantasy setting.
Not according to this (http://i.imgur.com/rhWfS44.jpg) screenshot.
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Looks like LotR to me.
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With enough mods Oblivion can be whatever you want it to be. According to Alex-logic this means Oblivion is the best game ever made.
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tfw I get rekt
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Oblivion is still the best ES game. Deal with it.
Generic LotR fantasy setting.
Not according to this (http://i.imgur.com/rhWfS44.jpg) screenshot.
...that's Morrowind. Oblivion is the game with the generic LotR fantasy setting.
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I can see why you might be confused. That is actually a heavily modded version of Oblivion.
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I don't know who to believe
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Amazing, they modded the Morrowind UI - and Balmora - into Oblivion!
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I'm sure he's joking, but I don't know what the joke is.
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I don't get how Saddam can say that Oblivion is a generic fantasy setting but Morrowind isn't.
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I don't get how Saddam can say that Oblivion is a generic fantasy setting but Morrowind isn't.
I don't get how you can not get that.
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Morrowind averts almost all of the basic tropes that most fantasy works strive to include, giving the world a wonderfully unique vibe. The land itself isn't the usual quaint English countryside. The political system isn't the usual feudal nobility with a hereditary line of monarchs at the top. The city designs are remarkably creative. The flora and fauna are utterly zany. The setting just looks and feels very, very different from the kind of thing you'd see in Tolkien or Warhammer or D&D or Dragonlance or Game of Thrones or whatever, and that can only be a good thing when most fantasy that comes out these days just seems to be more of the same.
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Morrowind averts almost all of the basic tropes that most fantasy works strive to include, giving the world a wonderfully unique vibe. The land itself isn't the usual quaint English countryside. The political system isn't the usual feudal nobility with a hereditary line of monarchs at the top. The city designs are remarkably creative. The flora and fauna are utterly zany. The setting just looks and feels very, very different from the kind of thing you'd see in Tolkien or Warhammer or D&D or Dragonlance or Game of Thrones or whatever, and that can only be a good thing when most fantasy that comes out these days just seems to be more of the same.
Just because Morrowind is a different stereotype doesn't mean it isn't a stereotype. In fact the game reminds me of Warcraft quite a bit, especially the land beyond the dark portal. Furthermore, how could you possibly say the game isn't the kind of thing you'd see in D&D when out of all the TES games, Morrowind is the most like it?
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The wisdom of Vivec.
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Morrowind averts almost all of the basic tropes that most fantasy works strive to include, giving the world a wonderfully unique vibe. The land itself isn't the usual quaint English countryside. The political system isn't the usual feudal nobility with a hereditary line of monarchs at the top. The city designs are remarkably creative. The flora and fauna are utterly zany. The setting just looks and feels very, very different from the kind of thing you'd see in Tolkien or Warhammer or D&D or Dragonlance or Game of Thrones or whatever, and that can only be a good thing when most fantasy that comes out these days just seems to be more of the same.
Just because Morrowind is a different stereotype doesn't mean it isn't a stereotype.
Can you describe the stereotype?
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I certainly could not.
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It's the "wacky colorful look we're a different kind of setting" stereotype.
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It's the "wacky colorful look we're a different kind of setting" stereotype.
Wacky and colorful? One of the biggest complaints about Morrowind's aesthetic is that everything is either brown or gray. Even if it were accurate, that seems way too vague to be an actual stereotype. Can you provide some other examples that fit this description?
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It's the "wacky colorful look we're a different kind of setting" stereotype.
Wacky and colorful? One of the biggest complaints about Morrowind's aesthetic is that everything is either brown or gray. Even if it were accurate, that seems way too vague to be an actual stereotype. Can you provide some other examples that fit this description?
Warcraft.
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It's the "wacky colorful look we're a different kind of setting" stereotype.
Wacky and colorful? One of the biggest complaints about Morrowind's aesthetic is that everything is either brown or gray. Even if it were accurate, that seems way too vague to be an actual stereotype. Can you provide some other examples that fit this description?
Warcraft.
http://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/warriorshtm/bigdogmetoo.htm
Can you be more specific, though?
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That's a very strange criticism. Warcraft isn't necessarily 'wacky and colourful' either.
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I'm not even criticizing. I just like watching Alex get all worked up about Morrowind. I've always thought Morrowind was a great game. I like Oblivion better though. Personally opinion so I don't really want to get into a debate about it. The settings in games are not what makes/breaks the game for me, though. I have no issue with Oblivion's more generic presentation.
Burning Crusade WoW is reminiscent of Morrowind though, similar looking flora at least. Although, Morrowind arguably did it first and did it better.
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Although, Morrowind arguably did it first
I would argue that 2002 was before 2007.
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Morrowind was in space?
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Morrowind is a funky game that only true funksters can appreciate. Oblivion, however, is a white bread game made for conservative congressmen.
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Can you describe the stereotype?
In a word? Mushrooms.
Morrowind is a funky game that only true funksters can appreciate. Oblivion, however, is a white bread game made for conservative congressmen.
Oh really? Since you've already posted TvTropes as a criticism of Oblivion, then obviously the same must work for Morrowind. Let's take a look: (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StandardFantasySetting)
Post-Tolkien, this usually has at least three of the standard Five Races of heroic peoples:
Dwarves
...Yes.
Elves
...Yes.
Humans
Do I have to say yes or do you need to think this one out a bit?
As an alternative, Humans can be divided into races. Normally, this is done by using hair color and/or a Fantasy Counterpart Culture.
...Yes.
Any of the above being called by a different name is allowed. That applies to humans, too.
Yes, everything that even remotely looks like an elf should have "mer" in the name, including dwarves!
Our Monsters Are Different
Check out how wacky and zany and "different" our monsters are!
Functional Magic
Magic A Is Magic A, almost invariably
Black Magic (Dark Is Not Evil is allowed as an implementation detail)
Squishy Wizards
Linear Warriors, Quadratic Wizards
Yes.
At least two of the following:
The Empire
The Kingdom
The Alliance
The Horde (usually Undead or Orcish, and every so often, Beast Men, when the author wants a little variety or is a fur-fan. For even more variety, all three at once.)
Standard royal courts
Well, there is an empire, but as for the name itself there is no other entity, so this I can't really say. Though five great houses that you are born into for political power is not really groundbreaking, unless Game of Thrones strikes you as "new and original."
A (usually) European-style Pseudo-Medieval setting.
Check.
Generally Medieval Stasis; the general dividing line is that any technology that Leonardo da Vinci wouldn't have drawn renders the setting non-compliant, unless said technology is a Relic Of The Past.
Yes and no. The dwemer built some awesome stuff, but then magically disappeared so that the world could stay in a medieval shit hole. I'm going to give this one a check.
Fantasy Gun Control: You'd better learn how to use a bow, Mack, 'cause that gun's just gonna click.
Dwemer: Good enough to make robots, too dumb to make guns. Weird.
The Sword And Sandal subgenre thrives in a Fantasy Counterpart Culture in the ancient world and — just to make life confusing — can cheerfully co-exist with other portions of the world having a pseudo-medieval setting.
Check.
Similarly, technology is often all over the place, with Iron, Bronze, and Stone-age weapons existing alongside actual Middle Age- and early Renaissance-era weapons. Even if there are no guns, for example, you will often easily find rapiers, light blades that only came about in Real Life because guns began making armor less prevalent.
Yes.
Fantasy Character Classes, if the work in question is a Roleplaying Game of some kind, though this is not a necessary element. If it's not a game it may still feature some of the character archetypes that inspired the modern classes.
Morrowind is literally D&D when it comes to this.
The lesson here guys is there is no TES game that isn't a generic fantasy game, no matter how much you want to say it is unqiue or original. That goes doubly so for Morrowind, which is on top of being a generic fantasy, also has a pretty generic setting and landscape.
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Post-Tolkien, this usually has at least three of the standard Five Races of heroic peoples:
Dwarves
There is one dwarf, and he's part robot crab
Elves
...Yes.
Humans
Do I have to say yes or do you need to think this one out a bit?
As an alternative, Humans can be divided into races. Normally, this is done by using hair color and/or a Fantasy Counterpart Culture.
...Yes.
Any of the above being called by a different name is allowed. That applies to humans, too.
Yes, everything that even remotely looks like an elf should have "mer" in the name, including dwarves!
Our Monsters Are Different
Why did you include this but not the beast races which are much more present and there.
Functional Magic
Magic A Is Magic A, almost invariably
Black Magic (Dark Is Not Evil is allowed as an implementation detail)
Squishy Wizards
Linear Warriors, Quadratic Wizards
There ain't no black magic.
At least two of the following:
The Empire
The Kingdom
The Alliance
The Horde (usually Undead or Orcish, and every so often, Beast Men, when the author wants a little variety or is a fur-fan. For even more variety, all three at once.)
Standard royal courts
Well, there is an empire, but as for the name itself there is no other entity, so this I can't really say. Though five great houses that you are born into for political power is not really groundbreaking, unless Game of Thrones strikes you as "new and original."
A (usually) European-style Pseudo-Medieval setting.
Its mostly weird buildings made of crabs and middle eastern holes.
Generally Medieval Stasis; the general dividing line is that any technology that Leonardo da Vinci wouldn't have drawn renders the setting non-compliant, unless said technology is a Relic Of The Past.
At this point we can tell Rushy can't get past the red mountains
Fantasy Gun Control: You'd better learn how to use a bow, Mack, 'cause that gun's just gonna click.
They don't have gun powder
The Sword And Sandal subgenre thrives in a Fantasy Counterpart Culture in the ancient world and — just to make life confusing — can cheerfully co-exist with other portions of the world having a pseudo-medieval setting.
Check.
Similarly, technology is often all over the place, with Iron, Bronze, and Stone-age weapons existing alongside actual Middle Age- and early Renaissance-era weapons. Even if there are no guns, for example, you will often easily find rapiers, light blades that only came about in Real Life because guns began making armor less prevalent.
Only 2 sabers in the game and they are pretty thick
Fantasy Character Classes, if the work in question is a Roleplaying Game of some kind, though this is not a necessary element. If it's not a game it may still feature some of the character archetypes that inspired the modern classes.
Morrowind you can pick whatever skills you want and are restricted to what particular skills you would be good at dependent on your history as a person.
Rushy is bad at Morrowind.
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#Rushy'd
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*golf clap*
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If only I weren't confined to my phone and could write out a detailed rebuttal. Off the top of my head, the Dwemer aren't really dwarves, none of the cultures in these games could really be considered a "counterpart" of a real life one, and I don't care about D&D's class mechanics. The setting is what's being discussed here.
And in answer to the question you first raised, no, not really. Don't be dumb.
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If only I weren't confined to my phone and could write out a detailed rebuttal. Off the top of my head, the Dwemer aren't really dwarves, none of the cultures in these games could really be considered a "counterpart" of a real life one, and I don't care about D&D's class mechanics. The setting is what's being discussed here.
They live underground, are mostly machinists, and have great flowing beards. They're the very archetype of dwarves.
Furthermore, class mechanics are part of the setting. You're basically saying "everyone in this world equals one of these things."
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If only I weren't confined to my phone and could write out a detailed rebuttal. Off the top of my head, the Dwemer aren't really dwarves, none of the cultures in these games could really be considered a "counterpart" of a real life one, and I don't care about D&D's class mechanics. The setting is what's being discussed here.
They live underground, are mostly machinists, and have great flowing beards. They're the very archetype of dwarves.
Furthermore, class mechanics are part of the setting. You're basically saying "everyone in this world equals one of these things."
Change a couple of minor details and BAM, you have yourself a brand new 'original' race. They're totally not Dwarves.
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Change a couple of minor details and BAM, you have yourself a brand new 'original' race. They're totally not Dwarves.
Yeah, I don't get Saddam's logic. Also, to further my point, TES games colloquially refer to the Dwemer as "dwarves" in multiple texts.
commonly referred as "Dwarves"
He might as well return to arguing that giant mushrooms and gloomy marshlands are "zany and different."
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They weren't short and stocky drunkards though.
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Yes, they're colloquially referred to as dwarves, but the same games point out the fact that the name is a misnomer ascribed to them by ignorant humans who are going by your logic - "They live underground and make machines, therefore dwarves." They're another variant of mer, same as the Altmer or Dunmer.
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Rushy, putting the words "zany and different" in sarcastic quotation marks is not an argument. Can you provide us with an example of a setting that you think is truly unique, and could be described as zany and different without the quotes?
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Yes, they're colloquially referred to as dwarves, but the same games point out the fact that the name is a misnomer ascribed to them by ignorant humans who are going by your logic - "They live underground and make machines, therefore dwarves." They're another variant of mer, same as the Altmer or Dunmer.
Giving dwarves a different name is not going to magically make them not dwarves. In fact, the TvTropes listing said "these may be under different names, but still count as generic fantasy." If anything, TES simply made them a bit taller, and that's debatable, since some texts reference them as "large children with beards." No matter how hard you want it to be, an underground steampunk race of golden armored, bearded men cannot be considered anything but straight Tolkien photocopying.
Rushy, putting the words "zany and different" in sarcastic quotation marks is not an argument. Can you provide us with an example of a setting that you think is truly unique, and could be described as zany and different without the quotes?
Oh, you must have forgotten about our earlier engagement (or purposely buried the memory of you slinking away from it). There is no such thing as a truly unique setting. Anything a human mind create is based on something that already existed. This is why Saddam's argument that Oblivion is bland and generic, but that Morrowind somehow isn't, is blatantly false. They're both generic fantasy games. In fact, Oblivion is more unique in that its combat system is closer to a FPS than Morrowind's obvious D&D ripoff.
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Rushy, putting the words "zany and different" in sarcastic quotation marks is not an argument. Can you provide us with an example of a setting that you think is truly unique, and could be described as zany and different without the quotes?
Oh, you must have forgotten about our earlier engagement (or purposely buried the memory of you slinking away from it). There is no such thing as a truly unique setting. Anything a human mind create is based on something that already existed. This is why Saddam's argument that Oblivion is bland and generic, but that Morrowind somehow isn't, is blatantly false. They're both generic fantasy games. In fact, Oblivion is more unique in that its combat system is closer to a FPS than Morrowind's obvious D&D ripoff.
I accept your autistic definition of the word unique, but it isn't relative to the discussion. We're talking about relative uniqueness, which you seem to understand when you say "Oblivion is more unique". First, you say that uniqueness doesn't real, therefore Morrowind and Oblivion are equally generic. Rock solid logic thus far. Next, you say that Oblivion is actually more unique because of its combat system. That seems like a contradiction.
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Rushy, putting the words "zany and different" in sarcastic quotation marks is not an argument. Can you provide us with an example of a setting that you think is truly unique, and could be described as zany and different without the quotes?
Oh, you must have forgotten about our earlier engagement (or purposely buried the memory of you slinking away from it). There is no such thing as a truly unique setting. Anything a human mind create is based on something that already existed. This is why Saddam's argument that Oblivion is bland and generic, but that Morrowind somehow isn't, is blatantly false. They're both generic fantasy games. In fact, Oblivion is more unique in that its combat system is closer to a FPS than Morrowind's obvious D&D ripoff.
I accept your autistic definition of the word unique, but it isn't relative to the discussion. We're talking about relative uniqueness, which you seem to understand when you say "Oblivion is more unique". First, you say that uniqueness doesn't real, therefore Morrowind and Oblivion are equally generic. Rock solid logic thus far. Next, you say that Oblivion is actually more unique because of its combat system. That seems like a contradiction.
Note the difference between the terms "truly unique" and "unique." Think of it as "perfection," where you can get closer, but never really there. Are you done playing word games now?
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In fact, Oblivion is more unique in that its combat system is closer to a FPS than Morrowind's obvious D&D ripoff.
How is that more unique
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In fact, Oblivion is more unique in that its combat system is closer to a FPS than Morrowind's obvious D&D ripoff.
How is that more unique
Many fantasy games maintain a dice-roll or turn based mechanic.
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Yes, but Morrowind also has the same "FPS" mechanics as Oblivion does
I'd think that a combination of FPS and dice rolls is more unique than plain FPS
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I thought we were talking about setting, not game mechanics. Combat is shitty in every ES game. Rushy, can you give us an example of a fictional setting that is relatively unique?
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Alex, do you agree that combat in Morrowind is shitty?
I think Oblivion improved on the combat mechanics, making it more suitable for the overall feel of the ES series since it is easily way more forgiveable than Morrowind's dice rolls. This in turn helps promote adventuring (which I feel is the main focus of the games), especially early on since you don't die all the time because of misses. It's a lot less discouraging.
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Alex, do you agree that combat in Morrowind is shitty?
Yes. I don't mind that the chance to hit is based on dice rolls, but the mechanics of pure melee or ranged combat just aren't that interesting. They're merely functional.
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Nothing wrong with an effective casual filter :^)
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Nothing wrong with an effective casual filter :^)
There's a difference between "casual filters" and making the game more accessible.
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Accessibility doesn't mean removing game mechanics, though. In any case, Oblivion might be more "accessible", but it's certainly not better thought out - it's probably one of the few cases in which character progression makes you relatively weaker instead of stronger.
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Accessibility doesn't mean removing game mechanics, though. In any case, Oblivion might be more "accessible", but it's certainly not better thought out - it's probably one of the few cases in which character progression makes you relatively weaker instead of stronger.
Perhaps, but that doesn't have much to do with combat mechanics.
Personally, I like the fact that the higher level I am the stronger the enemies are. That makes sense to me. Slaying a dremora lord in one hit would be immersion-breaking.
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Yes, but Morrowind also has the same "FPS" mechanics as Oblivion does
No, it doesn't. When I shoot a bow in Oblivion or Skyrim, the game doesn't dice-roll whether the arrow hit or not. Either you aimed well enough to hit your target or you didn't. Skill level only affects damage, not hit or miss.
I'd think that a combination of FPS and dice rolls is more unique than plain FPS
I didn't know we were talking about things that are uniquely bad about Morrowind.
I thought we were talking about setting, not game mechanics. Combat is shitty in every ES game. Rushy, can you give us an example of a fictional setting that is relatively unique?
Are you just going to ask the same question until the answer is different? I might as well be trying to discuss Morrowind with a graffiti'd brick wall.
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welp
Not doing this shit
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welp
Not doing this shit
(http://media.giphy.com/media/jxqSgd1TtHu4U/giphy.gif)
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welp
Not doing this shit
(http://media.giphy.com/media/jxqSgd1TtHu4U/giphy.gif)
I see you're into /r/shittytumblrgifs
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Nope, that one is courtesy of google and that average Stiller movie.
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I thought we were talking about setting, not game mechanics. Combat is shitty in every ES game. Rushy, can you give us an example of a fictional setting that is relatively unique?
Are you just going to ask the same question until the answer is different? I might as well be trying to discuss Morrowind with a graffiti'd brick wall.
That was the first time I asked that question. I changed the question so that you would be more comfortable with the phrasing. Since absolutele uniqueness is impossible, I'm now asking about relative uniqueness. I ask because I'm curious about your perception of uniqueness in fiction.
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Brütal Legend?
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That was the first time I asked that question. I changed the question so that you would be more comfortable with the phrasing. Since absolutele uniqueness is impossible, I'm now asking about relative uniqueness. I ask because I'm curious about your perception of uniqueness in fiction.
That isn't relevant. The original observation by Saddam is that Oblivion is a generic fantasy game, but Morrowind is not. I have showed that the setting of both games is generic, by listing generic elements and commenting on their appearance in Morrowind (and Oblivion). If you're interested in quantifying "uniqueness" I suggest starting another thread where I'm sure lots of other like-minded people will come to a fruitful discussion with you.
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Why won't you answer the question? You may as well just answer it. I'm going to respond the same way no matter what answer you give. It will be something like
>thinks Morrowind is generic
>thinks [Psychonauts or whatever] is unique
>uwotm8.ppt
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Why won't you answer the question? You may as well just answer it. I'm going to respond the same way no matter what answer you give. It will be something like
>thinks Morrowind is generic
>thinks [Psychonauts or whatever] is unique
>uwotm8.ppt
If you're looking for verification for your love of an overly abundant generic fantasy game by comparing it to Psychonauts, then I'm afraid you've come to the wrong place. You should start that thread I suggested earlier.
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I think you misunderstood.
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Have it your way, Rushy. Morrowind is less generic than Oblivion, in many very distinctive ways. There. ::)
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That's not the real problem with Morrowind. Cliff racers are.
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Have it your way, Rushy. Morrowind is less generic than Oblivion, in many very distinctive ways. There. ::)
Morrowind is much more generic than Oblivion.
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I disagree. Most fantasy looks just like Oblivion and almost nothing like Morrowind.
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Shitload of trolling ITT.
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I disagree. Most fantasy looks just like Oblivion and almost nothing like Morrowind.
That's a completely different statement. It is, however, still wrong.
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Explain how this:
(http://i.imgur.com/ywh0upv.jpg?1)
looks less generic than this:
(http://i.imgur.com/heuG0Ig.jpg)
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Morrowind's landscapes were obviously inspired by Mario. Mario has been around since the 80s. Not very original, imo.
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Explain how this:
(http://i.imgur.com/ywh0upv.jpg?1)
looks less generic than this:
(http://i.imgur.com/heuG0Ig.jpg)
Sorry, but those both look like generic fantasy landscapes to me. Explain what is so unique about one or the other?
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Sorry, but those both look like generic fantasy landscapes to me. Explain what is so unique about one or the other?
The top image looks like landscape I can see by walking for about 10 minutes. The bottom one has mushroom trees. Stop being such a neandertard.
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Explain what is so unique about one or the other?
But you're the one making that claim.
Morrowind is much more generic than Oblivion.
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In fairness to Oblivion, it might have been fairly generic, but it was very, very pretty.
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The top image looks like landscape I can see by walking for about 10 minutes. The bottom one has mushroom trees. Stop being such a neandertard.
They're both generic for a fantasy setting. What you do or don't see walking for 10 minutes is irrelevant. Also, I could introduce you to some things that might or might not result in giant mushroom trees while you're walking, your mileage may vary.
Explain what is so unique about one or the other?
But you're the one making that claim.
Morrowind is much more generic than Oblivion.
Yes.
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If anything, TES simply made them a bit taller, and that's debatable, since some texts reference them as "large children with beards." No matter how hard you want it to be, an underground steampunk race of golden armored, bearded men cannot be considered anything but straight Tolkien photocopying.
No. That description came from this book, which is almost certainly (and intentionally on Bethesda's part) incorrect.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Herbane%27s_Bestiary:_Automatons
This guy is just an adventurer who fought the automatons. He's not a scholar or researcher, and as he clearly admits, his knowledge of the "Dwarves" comes from folk tales passed around when he was a child. There's no comparison between his account and the wiser heads who have actually studied the mysterious vanished race, and have all explained that the Dwemer were, in fact, elves. Besides, Dwarven armor fits normal-sized people. It clearly wasn't made for anyone small.
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Saddam Hussein
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Rushy, can you give us an example of a fictional setting that is relatively unique?
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Oblivion is unique because it's an FPS
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The only other fantasy world I can think of that looks similar to Morrowind is Draenor in the Warcraft franchise. Cyrodiil on th ether hand looks like every other high-fantasy world.
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The only other fantasy world I can think of that looks similar to Morrowind is Draenor in the Warcraft franchise. Cyrodiil on th ether hand looks like every other high-fantasy world.
I don't see why this is a problem though. Cyrodil looks like that lore-wise. Just how Skyrim looks like a fucking mess.
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Cyrodil looks like that lore-wise.
Yeah, after its actual lore appearance was retconned. And then retconned again.
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Cyrodil looks like that lore-wise. Just how Skyrim looks like a fucking mess.
Actually, the lore that was available to us at the time of Oblivion's release described Cyrodiil very differently. Now we have an awkward retcon. How is Skyrim a mess?
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Cyrodil looks like that lore-wise.
Yeah, after its actual lore appearance was retconned. And then retconned again.
What was Cyrodil supposed to look like originally?
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It was mostly a very dense tropical jungle.
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It mostly a very dense tropical jungle.
That's not particularly original either. They probably changed it because it was too similar to the descriptions of Valenwood and Elsweyr.
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No. That description came from this book, which is almost certainly (and intentionally on Bethesda's part) incorrect.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Herbane%27s_Bestiary:_Automatons
This guy is just an adventurer who fought the automatons. He's not a scholar or researcher, and as he clearly admits, his knowledge of the "Dwarves" comes from folk tales passed around when he was a child. There's no comparison between his account and the wiser heads who have actually studied the mysterious vanished race, and have all explained that the Dwemer were, in fact, elves. Besides, Dwarven armor fits normal-sized people. It clearly wasn't made for anyone small.
Normal sized Dwarven armor is manufactured by normal-sized people out of dwarven metal. Also, dwarven armor. dwarven metal. It's called that, because surprisingly enough, the dwemer are dwarves. If anything their association with elves is the myth, because as the Falmer learned, dwarves hate elves.
Rushy, can you give us an example of a fictional setting that is relatively unique?
Relative to what?
It mostly a very dense tropical jungle.
No, it isn't. Source: played Oblivion.
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ITT: Irushwithscvs can't into video games.
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The Dwemer were no shorter than Humans or the Chimer.
Here's a Dwemer ghost. Even though he's standing slightly hunched over and with bent knees, he's still taller than the Bosmer next to him. Bosmers are short yes, but not as short as typical Dwarves.
(http://i.imgur.com/b61AkMR.png)
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What happened to the Dwemer? Did they become Falmer? Or is there still no concrete explanation?
I remember reading something in one of the games that implied that the Dwemer ascended to a new plane of existence, or something. Or maybe they pissed off a god and it snapped them out of existence.
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What happened to the Dwemer? Did they become Falmer? Or is there still no concrete explanation?
Azure got mad that they looked at her under bits and murdered them all.
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What happened to the Dwemer? Did they become Falmer? Or is there still no concrete explanation?
I remember reading something in one of the games that implied that the Dwemer ascended to a new plane of existence, or something. Or maybe they pissed off a god and it snapped them out of existence.
It's closer to the latter one.
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Falmers were always Falmers. Also known as Snow Elves.
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Falmers were always Falmers. Also known as Snow Elves.
I thought Falmer were descended from Snow Elves when the Snow Elves were driven underground?
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Snow Elves are just another name for Falmer. Like how Dark Elves is another name for Dunmer.
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Snow Elves are just another name for Falmer. Like how Dark Elves is another name for Dunmer.
No. While I think Snow Elves were originally called Flamer, they were very different from the Falmer shown in Skyrim. Falmer are the degenerate offspring of the Snow Elves. Snupes is correct.
Centuries of Dwemer slavery underground turned Snow Elves into Falmer. True Snow Elves, even though originally called Flamer, prefer the term Snow Elves over Falmer because they are distinctly different now.
Source. (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Falmer)
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What makes you think I don't know this?
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It seemed like you were implying that the Snow Elves and Falmer from Skyrim are the same, when they are not. Maybe I misunderstood.
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The Dwemer were no shorter than Humans or the Chimer.
Here's a Dwemer ghost. Even though he's standing slightly hunched over and with bent knees, he's still taller than the Bosmer next to him. Bosmers are short yes, but not as short as typical Dwarves.
I don't recall saying anything about the height of Dwarves. Not sure why you think this is relevant.
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Sorry. What I ment to say was:
Falmers were Falmers.
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The Dwemer were no shorter than Humans or the Chimer.
Here's a Dwemer ghost. Even though he's standing slightly hunched over and with bent knees, he's still taller than the Bosmer next to him. Bosmers are short yes, but not as short as typical Dwarves.
I don't recall saying anything about the height of Dwarves. Not sure why you think this is relevant.
When are Dwarves ever tall?
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Sorry. What I ment to say was:
Falmers were Falmers.
Everything is so clear now.
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Sorry. What I ment to say was:
Falmers were Falmers.
Everything is so clear now.
I hope so.
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When are Dwarves ever tall?
In TES, apparently. I'm still waiting for you to unveil how this is all relevant to my discussion with Saddam, if you even plan to do so.
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When are Dwarves ever tall?
In TES, apparently. I'm still waiting for you to unveil how this is all relevant to my discussion with Saddam, if you even plan to do so.
But TES doesn't have dwarves.
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But TES doesn't have dwarves.
Incorrect.
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Dwemer were obviously inspired by dwarves. The giants in ES lore even called them dwarves. Just because they change the name from "dwarf" to "dwemer" doesn't change the fact that 90% of their existence is comprised of dwarf stereotypes.
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The Dwemer were obviously remnants of the early Aldmer who came from Aldmeris and first settled Summerset Isles and later migrated to Cyrodiil. They were most definitely Mer/Elves.
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Dwemer were obviously inspired by dwarves. The giants in ES lore even called them dwarves. Just because they change the name from "dwarf" to "dwemer" doesn't change the fact that 90% of their existence is comprised of dwarf stereotypes.
But we've just established that they're literally not dwarves.
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Dwemer were obviously inspired by dwarves. The giants in ES lore even called them dwarves. Just because they change the name from "dwarf" to "dwemer" doesn't change the fact that 90% of their existence is comprised of dwarf stereotypes.
But we've just established that they're literally not dwarves.
In name and background lore only. Who cares if they are mer? They are based on fucking dwarves. Underground? Check. Technologically advanced? Check. Beards? Check. Pompous better than other races attitude? Check.
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The Dwemer were obviously remnants of the early Aldmer who came from Aldmeris and first settled Summerset Isles and later migrated to northern Cyrodiil. They were most definitely Mer/Elves.
A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.
Sorry, but renaming something doesn't change what it is. I can't reinvent the wheel simply by renaming it. Unless, you think I can. I would gladly sell you a new wooden "goaroundandaround" for $2000.
But we've just established that they're literally not dwarves.
Really? Where?
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Dwemer were obviously inspired by dwarves. The giants in ES lore even called them dwarves. Just because they change the name from "dwarf" to "dwemer" doesn't change the fact that 90% of their existence is comprised of dwarf stereotypes.
But we've just established that they're literally not dwarves.
In name and background lore only. Who cares if they are mer? They are based on fucking dwarves. Underground? Check. Technologically advanced? Check. Beards? Check. Pompous better than other races attitude? Check.
Based on that, it seems they're stereotypically closer to humans more than anything.
Also, what do you mean by underground? The vast majority of Dwemer settlements are above ground level.
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The fucking lore has fucking established that the fucking Dwemers were fucking Elves.
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Based on that, it seems they're stereotypically closer to humans more than anything.
That's probably because dwarves are based on Norse mythology, which is based on humans.
The fucking lore has fucking established that the fucking Dwemers were fucking Elves.
No, it definitely calls them dwarves all the time. Even their armor is called "dwarven armor." Their attribution to elves is most likely an error by countless cultures that came after them, since they've been dead for so long.
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Trolling confirmed.
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welp
Not doing this shit
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Also, technological advancedness and pompousness are just as much elven stereotypes as dwarven ones, if not more so. So why is it so hard to accept that Dwemer are in fact elves when everything in the games suggest that they are? Or is anything with a beard a dwarf now?
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I think there is some sort of double standard going on here. Some of you seem to think that Oblivion is generic because of its setting, which many of you have likened to Tolkien's Middle-Earth. However, Oblivion obviously does not take place in Middle-Earth.
Now, when we use the same argument against you: "Dwemer share many similarities with Dwarves, therefore they are a generic archetype". Your tone changes completely. Now, somehow it's forgivable that they based Dwemer on Dwarves and it's not generic at all. Why is that given that they share so many similarities?
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Also, technological advancedness and pompousness are just as much elven stereotypes as dwarven ones, if not more so. So why is it so hard to accept that Dwemer are in fact elves when everything in the games suggest that they are? Or is everything with a beard a dwarf now?
Elves are stereotypically stuck in medieval stasis, as opposed to dwarves which are usually more advanced than the surrounding cultures. TES matches up to both of these stereotypes perfectly. Since Saddam seems to prefer TvTropes to support his arguments I'll provide an additional link for Elves: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OurElvesAreBetter
They have a dwarf link, too, which other than being short (debatable, no dwemer are actually alive to prove their height) they match the Dwemer perfectly.
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There's like one guy alive who wants to be called a "Snow Elf." It's not incorrect to say that Falmer is another term for Snow Elf. It's just that the historical Falmer were far more civilized and less savage than their modern descendants.
The discussion moved on from this point rather quickly.
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There's like one guy alive who wants to be called a "Snow Elf." It's not incorrect to say that Falmer is another term for Snow Elf. It's just that the historical Falmer were far more civilized and less savage than their modern descendants.
The discussion moved on from this point rather quickly.
The discussion moved on because snow elves are boring.
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There's like one guy alive who wants to be called a "Snow Elf." It's not incorrect to say that Falmer is another term for Snow Elf. It's just that the historical Falmer were far more civilized and less savage than their modern descendants.
The discussion moved on from this point rather quickly.
Falmer from Skyrim are significantly different biologically than true Falmer. They are almost two completely different races.
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(debatable, no dwemer are actually alive to prove their height)
Incorrect.
I think there is some sort of double standard going on here. Some of you seem to think that Oblivion is generic because of its setting, which many of you have likened to Tolkien's Middle-Earth. However, Oblivion obviously does not take place in Middle-Earth.
Some? I think Saddam said that, who is not in this conversation.
Now, when we use the same argument against you: "Dwemer share many similarities with Dwarves, therefore they are a generic archetype". Your tone changes completely. Now, somehow it's forgivable that they based Dwemer on Dwarves and it's not generic at all. Why is that given that they share so many similarities?
I don't care how generic it is, I'm just pointing out that a lot of the things you're trying to pass off as similarities are simply incorrect. The things you have left are effectively based on Aldmer rather than dwarves, which would make perfect sense considering they're descendants of Aldmer.
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Saying we are incorrect doesn't make us incorrect. The Dwemer share many similarties with common dwarves in literature/games/whatever.
The Dwemer were masters of crafting and smith-work. They even created an Aetherium Forge, a highly advanced smithing forge to... you guessed it, forge weapons and armor! The Dwemer mainly focused on metallurgy, the study of the physical and chemical elements of metal, just like Dwarves. Because of this, they were able to create their own distinctive form of metal which was easily mistaken for bronze.. bronze being a common Dwarf motif as well. And yes, many Dwemer did in fact live underground. Not all of them, however.
Also, from this concept art... it looks pretty evident that they were intially based on dwarves. There is nothing to compare them to in this picture, but they look anatomically shorter than average & have beards. They are also pictured with weapons and shields that they presumably made themselves.
(http://i.imgur.com/AdCfl0W.jpg)
Morrowind's opening sequence starts in 16 Last Seed, 427, 10 AM. The dwarves disapeared in 1E 700. Yagrum Bagarn, the last dwemer in existence (from Morrowind), has been alive since the dissapearence of the dwarves, making him very very old. Guess what Tolkien race has a very long lifespan as well? Yep, dwarves.
The biggest difference between the two (Dwarves & Dwemer) is that Dwemer were very interested in science and magic, whereas Dwarves were not.
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The biggest different between the two (Dwarves & Dwemer) is that Dwemer were very interested in science and magic, whereas Dwarves were not.
You forgot the part where Dwemer are Elves, and Dwarves are not. I'd say that's the absloute biggest difference.
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The biggest different between the two (Dwarves & Dwemer) is that Dwemer were very interested in science and magic, whereas Dwarves were not.
You forgot the part where Dwemer are Elves, and Dwarves are not.
That is irrelevant. Like Rushy said, just because you call them something different does not change the fact that they were obviously inspired by dwarves. That's all I'm trying to get across here.
Dwemer were inspired by Dwarves. Reread the thread if you don't understand the similarities.
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You forgot the part where Dwemer are Elves, and Dwarves are not. I'd say that's the absloute biggest difference.
I see, the old "if I say it over and over again, it will magically become true" style. Sadly, no. The Dwemer are dwarves, which is why the game calls them dwarves. As Saddam has pointed out, we can't really trust in-game books and lore, because Bethesda could be making them wrong on purpose. However, we have meta-data, the in-game menus and item names. This meta-data calls them dwarves. Therefore, the truth is that they're dwarves which are mistaken for elves, not the opposite.
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Rushy, can you give us an example of a fictional setting that is relatively unique?
Relative to what?
Relative to other fictional settings. Obviously you're able to form opinions regarding what is and isn't generic, so I'd like to hear some examples of settings that aren't generic.
I think there is some sort of double standard going on here. Some of you seem to think that Oblivion is generic because of its setting, which many of you have likened to Tolkien's Middle-Earth. However, Oblivion obviously does not take place in Middle-Earth.
Now, when we use the same argument against you: "Dwemer share many similarities with Dwarves, therefore they are a generic archetype". Your tone changes completely. Now, somehow it's forgivable that they based Dwemer on Dwarves and it's not generic at all. Why is that given that they share so many similarities?
I won't deny that the Dwemer are inspired in part by Tolkein's dwarfs, however, Dwemer are only a small part of Morrowind's setting. Nearly everything about Oblivion is generic. The landscape, the architecture, the fire and brimstone antagonist, etc. There's plenty of interesting stuff, but almost none of it is on the surface. That isn't necessarily a bad thing.
As for Dwemer being short: just play Morrowind. You see Dwemer ghosts and statues of Dwemer. Their height and proportions are nearly identical to that of the average Dunmer.
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Morrowind's opening sequence starts in 16 Last Seed, 427, 10 AM. The dwarves disapeared in 1E 700. Yagrum Bagarn, the last dwemer in existence (from Morrowind), has been alive since the dissapearence of the dwarves, making him very very old.
He has corprus, so that doesn't say anything about the possible lifespan of Dwemer.
Guess what Tolkien race has a very long lifespan as well? Yep, dwarves.
No, elves do.
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Morrowind's opening sequence starts in 16 Last Seed, 427, 10 AM. The dwarves disapeared in 1E 700. Yagrum Bagarn, the last dwemer in existence (from Morrowind), has been alive since the dissapearence of the dwarves, making him very very old.
He has corprus, so that doesn't say anything about the possible lifespan of Dwemer.
Guess what Tolkien race has a very long lifespan as well? Yep, dwarves.
No, elves do.
Tolkien Dwarves live to be 200+ years old. That's pretty long compared to some races.
And good point about the corprus, I forgot about that.
Still, the other similarities still stand... and you conveniently ignored them, I see.
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Relative to other fictional settings. Obviously you're able to form opinions regarding what is and isn't generic, so I'd like to hear some examples of settings that aren't generic.
They're all generic. I'm not sure you understand the argument here.
I won't deny that the Dwemer are inspired in part by Tolkein's dwarfs, however, Dwemer are only a small part of Morrowind's setting. Nearly everything about Oblivion is generic. The landscape, the architecture, the fire and brimstone antagonist, etc. There's plenty of interesting stuff, but almost none of it is on the surface. That isn't necessarily a bad thing.
The Dwemer conversation is only a small part of Morrowind being generic, but one that some here seem to have the biggest beef with. We could talk about the "unique giant mushroom land" more if you like.
As for Dwemer being short: just play Morrowind. You see Dwemer ghosts and statues of Dwemer. Their height and proportions are nearly identical to that of the average Dunmer.
The ghosts could be holographs and the statues could be idolized. You're only seeing what the Dwemer wanted you to see.
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Morrowind's opening sequence starts in 16 Last Seed, 427, 10 AM. The dwarves disapeared in 1E 700. Yagrum Bagarn, the last dwemer in existence (from Morrowind), has been alive since the dissapearence of the dwarves, making him very very old.
He has corprus, so that doesn't say anything about the possible lifespan of Dwemer.
Guess what Tolkien race has a very long lifespan as well? Yep, dwarves.
No, elves do.
Tolkien Dwarves live to be 200+ years old. That's pretty long compared to some races.
Still pretty fucking short compared to elves, no? If you're trying to make a point about lifespan, then surely Yagrum's would indicate being more akin to Tolkien's elves rather than dwarves. But of course, the fact that he has corprus nullifies that whole point.
Still, the other similarities still stand... and you conveniently ignored him, I see.
Like I said, I'm just refuting the points that are incorrect.
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Relative to other fictional settings. Obviously you're able to form opinions regarding what is and isn't generic, so I'd like to hear some examples of settings that aren't generic.
They're all generic. I'm not sure you understand the argument here.
You've already said that Morrowind is more generic than Oblivion, so there's obviously some sort of scale that's more detailed than "they're all generic". I'll draw you a picture:
less generic <----------------Oblivion-------Morrowind----> more generic
I'm asking you what sort of settings you would place towards the left side.
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Morrowind's opening sequence starts in 16 Last Seed, 427, 10 AM. The dwarves disapeared in 1E 700. Yagrum Bagarn, the last dwemer in existence (from Morrowind), has been alive since the dissapearence of the dwarves, making him very very old.
He has corprus, so that doesn't say anything about the possible lifespan of Dwemer.
Guess what Tolkien race has a very long lifespan as well? Yep, dwarves.
No, elves do.
Tolkien Dwarves live to be 200+ years old. That's pretty long compared to some races.
Still pretty fucking short compared to elves, no? If you're trying to make a point about lifespan, then surely Yagrum's would indicate being more akin to Tolkien's elves rather than dwarves. But of course, the fact that he has corprus nullifies that whole point.
Still, the other similarities still stand... and you conveniently ignored him, I see.
Like I said, I'm just refuting the points that are incorrect.
No one is talking about elves besides you. Corprus makes that entire argument irrelevant anyways, so that's a non-point.
Regardless, dwemer share more similarities with dwarves than they do with elves. That's abundantly clear.
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No one is talking about elves besides you.
Beardo is as well, and it's pretty important to talk about elves considering the Dwemer are elves.
Regardless, dwemer share more similarities with dwarves than they do with elves. That's abundantly clear.
I disagree. They're inspired by dwarves, sure, but for the most part their lore is based on that of the Aldmer.
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They're inspired by dwarves
I'm done here.
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If we're going to draw superficial connections between the Dwemer and other civilizations, we may as well be accurate. Dwemer are inspired more by ancient Mesopotamia than Tolkein.
(http://www.odeany.us/history-costume/images/8705_53_22-ancient-mesopotamia-clothing-pictures.jpg)
Notice the clothing, headdress, and braided beards.
(http://images.uesp.net/d/dc/TR-creature-Radac_Stungnthumz.jpg)
Ancient Mesopotamians are considered the progenitors of modern society. They were very advanced for their time. Sound familiar?
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They're inspired by dwarves
I'm done here.
ok
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less generic <----------------Oblivion-------Morrowind----> more generic
I'm asking you what sort of settings you would place towards the left side.
When I made the comment that Oblivion is less generic than Morrowind, I wasn't referring to their settings. Their settings are equally generic fantasy realms.
If we're going to draw superficial connections between the Dwemer and other civilizations, we may as well be accurate. Dwemer are inspired more by ancient Mesopotamia than Tolkein.
Notice the clothing, headdress, and braided beards.
Ancient Mesopotamians are considered the progenitors of modern society. They were very advanced for their time. Sound familiar?
Funny, history isn't my specialty, but I can't quite recall Mesopotamians having steampunk architecture and technology.
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Isn't it usually Gnomes who's got all the steampunk crap going on rather than Dwarves?
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Isn't it usually Gnomes who's got all the steampunk crap going on rather than Dwarves?
In Warcraft.
I can't really think of any other examples.
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Dwarves and Gnomes are both steampunky in Warcraft.
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Isn't it usually Gnomes who's got all the steampunk crap going on rather than Dwarves?
Early-era steampunk technology is a dwarf stereotype. As far as I know only WoW has given such things to gnomes.
Most fantasy games give dwarves the higher tech because an underground race (especially one that is fairly small) doesn't make sense if they don't have heavy machinery to do most of the work.
In Warcraft.
Dwarves and Gnomes are both steampunky in Warcraft.
Please say "World of Warcraft" or "WoW"
Warcraft was a very good series before that god awful lore-munching monstrosity fucked it all up, although I think it all went downhill with Warcraft 3.
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Eh, Warcraft was never good. And like it or not, WoW is Warcraft. It's canon.
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Right. Maybe they just tend to stick to alchemy.
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Gnomes in RuneScape had some wacky technology too, but it wasn't really steampunk. Of course, the dwarves didn't really have steampunk technology either. It was more realistic fossil fuel-type stuff.
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Isn't it usually Gnomes who's got all the steampunk crap going on rather than Dwarves?
Early-era steampunk technology is a dwarf stereotype. As far as I know only WoW has given such things to gnomes.
Most fantasy games give dwarves the higher tech because an underground race (especially one that is fairly small) doesn't make sense if they don't have heavy machinery to do most of the work.
In Warcraft.
Dwarves and Gnomes are both steampunky in Warcraft.
Please say "World of Warcraft" or "WoW"
Warcraft was a very good series before that god awful lore-munching monstrosity fucked it all up, although I think it all went downhill with Warcraft 3.
Dwarves and Gnomes were steampunky before WoW.
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Eh, Warcraft was never good. And like it or not, WoW is Warcraft. It's canon.
Nope. nopenopenopenope
I can accept vanilla WoW being canon, maybe even Burning Crusades, but beyond that, noooope. It was all a dream made by druids. Yeah. That's good. They should use that.
You can't just bring back characters from the dead just to kill them again (Deathwing) or let a paltry group of "heroes" kill a man who is borderline god (Arthas). Doesn't make any goddamn sense dammit blizzard I hate you.
They don't give shit about their games' stories anymore. They ruined everything with StarCraft II, too. Oh, Kerrigan rules the universe now? Let's just pretend that didn't happen. Okay, guys? Cool. everything is cool
>o<
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pls no derail
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Players didn't kill Arthas, Tirion/Ashbringer did. Deathwing was never dead, he was just AFK somewhere.
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Gnomes in RuneScape had some wacky technology too, but it wasn't really steampunk. Of course, the dwarves didn't really have steampunk technology either. It was more realistic fossil fuel-type stuff.
The gnomes in Runescape stole most of their technology from elves. Possibly the elves just gave it to them it was never quite clear on that, at least the last time I played ten years ago.
Players didn't kill Arthas, Tirion/Ashbringer did. Deathwing was never dead, he was just AFK somewhere.
You "help" kill him, though, which is nonsense. Also, yes, Deathwing was most certainly dead. I distinctly remember murdering the shit out of him with mages in Warcraft II. Though I will admit they did bring him back once after Warcraft if I remember correctly, so I guess them doing it again isn't such a big deal. Still. >o<
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Eh, Warcraft was never good. And like it or not, WoW is Warcraft. It's canon.
Nope. nopenopenopenope
I can accept vanilla WoW being canon, maybe even Burning Crusades, but beyond that, noooope. It was all a dream made by druids. Yeah. That's good. They should use that.
You can't just bring back characters from the dead just to kill them again (Deathwing) or let a paltry group of "heroes" kill a man who is borderline god (Arthas). Doesn't make any goddamn sense dammit blizzard I hate you.
They don't give shit about their games' stories anymore. They ruined everything with StarCraft II, too. Oh, Kerrigan rules the universe now? Let's just pretend that didn't happen. Okay, guys? Cool. everything is cool
>o<
The only game I really like by Blizzard is Diablo 2.
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less generic <----------------Oblivion-------Morrowind----> more generic
I'm asking you what sort of settings you would place towards the left side.
When I made the comment that Oblivion is less generic than Morrowind, I wasn't referring to their settings. Their settings are equally generic fantasy realms.
Are all fictional settings equally generic?
If we're going to draw superficial connections between the Dwemer and other civilizations, we may as well be accurate. Dwemer are inspired more by ancient Mesopotamia than Tolkein.
Notice the clothing, headdress, and braided beards.
Ancient Mesopotamians are considered the progenitors of modern society. They were very advanced for their time. Sound familiar?
Funny, history isn't my specialty, but I can't quite recall Mesopotamians having steampunk architecture and technology.
They also didn't become part of the golden skin of a giant robot or create animunculi. As I said, the connection is superficial, but it's more significant than the connection to Dorfs.
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They also didn't become part of the golden skin of a giant robot or create animunculi. As I said, the connection is superficial, but it's more significant than the connection to Dorfs.
No, Alex. It's really not. Maybe appearance wise, but at least Tolkien didn't straight up copy/paste their appearance from ancient wall pix like ES did. As far as culture goes, dwemer are more similar to dwarves.
At least Tolkien had an original thought when creating his dwarves. I can't say the same thing about the dwemer.
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Players didn't kill Arthas, Tirion/Ashbringer did. Deathwing was never dead, he was just AFK somewhere.
You "help" kill him, though, which is nonsense. Also, yes, Deathwing was most certainly dead. I distinctly remember murdering the shit out of him with mages in Warcraft II. Though I will admit they did bring him back once after Warcraft if I remember correctly, so I guess them doing it again isn't such a big deal. Still. >o<
That was the retarded plot though. He let you plow through his entire army, kill all of his most powerful lieutenants and nearly defeat him just so he could kill your raid group and convert you to his most powerful champions.
And na, Deathwing has been officially alive for years before they decided to use him again in Cataclysm.
Having escaped back to Azeroth, Deathwing ended up in a fight with some of the archmagi of Dalaran and feigned defeat, falling into the sea, where most of the council assumed at the time that he died. He was not dead, however, and he took a human guise, pretending to be a heroic noble named Lord Prestor in an effort to be declared king of Alterac, where he could manipulate the Alliance from within.
That was the official lore stance since pre-WoW.
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They also didn't become part of the golden skin of a giant robot or create animunculi. As I said, the connection is superficial, but it's more significant than the connection to Dorfs.
No, Alex. It's really not. Maybe appearance wise, but dwarves were no doubt inspired by ancient Mesopotamia to some extent as well (and Tolkien didn't straight up copy/paste their appearance from ancient wall pix like ES did). As far as culture goes, dwemer are more similar to dwarves.
Your logical argument has changed my mind.
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They also didn't become part of the golden skin of a giant robot or create animunculi. As I said, the connection is superficial, but it's more significant than the connection to Dorfs.
No, Alex. It's really not. Maybe appearance wise, but dwarves were no doubt inspired by ancient Mesopotamia to some extent as well (and Tolkien didn't straight up copy/paste their appearance from ancient wall pix like ES did). As far as culture goes, dwemer are more similar to dwarves.
Your logical argument has changed my mind.
My post has significantly changed since. I took out the entire part about Mesopotamia, because dwarves were obviously based on nordic mythology.
But the logical argument has already been presented many times. We've given you the similarities. Deny them if you will.
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I'm not denying any of the similarities, other than the claim about height.
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I'm not denying any of the similarities, other than the claim about height.
I honestly don't know how tall they are. Do you know anything about dwemer women? What do they look like?
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Play Morrowind and fight one of their ghosts, then. I don't think a Dwemer woman has ever been shown.
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Are all fictional settings equally generic?
As soon as I gain the almighty power of omniscience, I will let you know if they're all equally generic.
it's more significant than the connection to Dorfs.
No... it really isn't. I mean, at this point, you've already been presented with all the evidence and lists of tropes. I can't say this is anything but denial which I hardly expected from you.
Having escaped back to Azeroth, Deathwing ended up in a fight with some of the archmagi of Dalaran and feigned defeat, falling into the sea, where most of the council assumed at the time that he died. He was not dead, however, and he took a human guise, pretending to be a heroic noble named Lord Prestor in an effort to be declared king of Alterac, where he could manipulate the Alliance from within.
That was the official lore stance since pre-WoW.
That wasn't pre-wow, though. They made that all up solely for Cataclysm.
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Are all fictional settings equally generic?
As soon as I gain the almighty power of omniscience, I will let you know if they're all equally generic.
Are all of the fictional settings that you're aware of equally generic?
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Play Morrowind and fight one of their ghosts, then. I don't think a Dwemer woman has ever been shown.
Yep. Still don't know how tall they are.
How do I know they are not wearing pumps or something similar under their dress?
Oh, and their ghosts are officially called "Dwarven Spectres".
::)
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Are all of the fictional settings that you're aware of equally generic?
Do you think I keep a list of every fantasy game I've come into contact with? I'm glad, at least, that you've accepted Morrowind is a generic fantasy game and are now simply inquiring about how generic it is.
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Are all of the fictional settings that you're aware of equally generic?
Do you think I keep a list of every fantasy game I've come into contact with? I'm glad, at least, that you've accepted Morrowind is a generic fantasy game and are now simply inquiring about how generic it is.
Why would you need a list? If you can't remember very many, just try to think of three or four fictional settings that you know of and tell me if they're all equally generic.
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Why would you need a list? If you can't remember very many, just try to think of three or four fictional settings that you know of and tell me if they're all equally generic.
Ah, I see. Here is an example of really generic scenery that I found:
(http://hdwallpapersfactory.com/wallpaper/morrowind_desktop_1440x900_hd-wallpaper-851852.jpg)
Delightfully droll marshlands with stone/woodwork houses and docks. Really, really superb generic fantasy if I do say so myself.
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Great, now we're really getting somewhere. Now think of a different fantasy setting at random. Is it more, less, or equally generic?
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Great, now we're really getting somewhere. Now think of a different fantasy setting at random. Is it more, less, or equally generic?
I am now thinking of an equally generic setting. What next?
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Continue thinking of fictional settings until you can't think of any more. When you're finished, let me know if they were all equally as generic as the first one.
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Continue thinking of fictional settings until you can't think of any more. When you're finished, let me know if they were all equally as generic as the first one.
Yes.
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They're all equally generic?
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They're all equally generic?
Yes.
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Why didn't you just say that 10 posts ago when I axed,
Are all fictional settings equally generic?
As soon as I gain the almighty power of omniscience, I will let you know if they're all equally generic.
Are all of the fictional settings that you're aware of equally generic?
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Why didn't you just say that 10 posts ago when I axed,
Well I wanted to see if you mulled over the question long enough to realize the problem.
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What's the problem?
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What's the problem?
I don't have a list.
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haha ebic dude
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Man, that Morrowind screenshot looks terrible. That is not a good combination of mods. Here's a screenshot I took at a similar angle with my build:
(http://i.imgur.com/YpJJBQ5.jpg)
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You should play the game the devs wanted you to play, not some tawdry reskin. You should play Morrowind on Xbox.
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If the devs wanted you to play the game in a specific way, they would not have intentionally made it easy to mod.
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If the devs wanted you to play the game in a specific way, they would not have intentionally made it easy to mod.
The devs tempt you to stray on purpose. That way they can easily tell the difference between the hardcore players and the modder casuals who need "better graphics" or "more gameplay."
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Lol, modder casuals.
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Oh, and their ghosts are officially called "Dwarven Spectres".
::)
Yes, we've already established that "Dwarven" is a colloquial term for the Dwemer.
If the devs wanted you to play the game in a specific way, they would not have intentionally made it easy to mod.
The Correct Way to Play the Game
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Yes, we've already established that "Dwarven" is a colloquial term for the Dwemer.
It is actually a technical term, considering that they were, in fact, dwarves.
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Prove it.
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Yes, we've already established that "Dwarven" is a colloquial term for the Dwemer.
It is actually a technical term, considering that they were, in fact, dwarves.
Wieners are hotdogs, but Frankfurters ain't technical.
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Yes, we've already established that "Dwarven" is a colloquial term for the Dwemer.
It is actually a technical term, considering that they were, in fact, dwarves.
If the language used in the UI is now canon then we have a contradiction, since Dwemer armor was called just that in Morrowind.
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If the language used in the UI is now canon then we have a contradiction, since Dwemer armor was called just that in Morrowind.
The terms Dwemer and Dwarven are interchangeable because the Dwemer are Dwarves.
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epic
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Maybe TESO will feature Dwemer soon, and then we'll be able to settle this issue.
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Yes. Return of the Dwarves expansion pack. Now with bonus Gandalf action figurine.
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If the language used in the UI is now canon then we have a contradiction, since Dwemer armor was called just that in Morrowind.
The terms Dwemer and Dwarven are interchangeable
Correct.
because the Dwemer are Dwarves.
Incorrect. Or should I say incorekt. They're mer. Even if you think they're similar to stereotypical dwarves, they are still elves.
Maybe TESO will feature Dwemer soon, and then we'll be able to settle this issue.
Let's hope not.
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Incorrect. Or should I say incorekt. They're mer. Even if you think they're similar to stereotypical dwarves, they are still elves.
And now we're back to "it's different because, I like, totally renamed them, so there." It's a fascinating argument because it means you have literally nothing else in your arsenal. This is what I've reduced you to.
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thatfeel.xls
<my feel when the anonymous meme team hires the internet's most epic troll to personally toll me
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#rekt
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Maybe TESO will feature Dwemer soon, and then we'll be able to settle this issue.
There are some in the second section of the daggerfall Covenant. Everyone hates them and I think they are slaving stuff.
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Maybe TESO will feature Dwemer soon, and then we'll be able to settle this issue.
There are some in the second section of the daggerfall Covenant. Everyone hates them and I think they are slaving stuff.
what
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Maybe TESO will feature Dwemer soon, and then we'll be able to settle this issue.
There are some in the second section of the daggerfall Covenant. Everyone hates them and I think they are slaving stuff.
what
Vongeo'd.
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Actually, I'm now learning that a lot of items in Skyrim are described as Dwemer rather than Dwarven. Dwemer dish, large Dwemer strut, Dwemer metal.
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They're fucking dwarves, guys. C'mon.
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Maybe TESO will feature Dwemer soon, and then we'll be able to settle this issue.
There are some in the second section of the daggerfall Covenant. Everyone hates them and I think they are slaving stuff.
what
Vongeo'd.
Every Vongeo-ism has at least a kernel of truth to it.
Also, I want a panda expansion.
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Actually, I'm now learning that a lot of items in Skyrim are described as Dwemer rather than Dwarven. Dwemer dish, large Dwemer strut, Dwemer metal.
This is because the Dwemer are dwarves and the two terms mean the same thing.
For example, the Spanish word for "red" is "roja." Likewise, the Bethesda word for "dwarves" is "dwemer."
Also, I want a panda expansion.
Pandas in Warcraft were literally a joke. They turned a single joke into an entire expansion to pander to their Chinese subscribers (you know, the only ones left). God dammit blizzard you make me so mad.
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Actually, I'm now learning that a lot of items in Skyrim are described as Dwemer rather than Dwarven. Dwemer dish, large Dwemer strut, Dwemer metal.
This is because the Dwemer are dwarves and the two terms mean the same thing.
For example, the Spanish word for "red" is "roja." Likewise, the Bethesda word for "dwarves" is "dwemer."
They aren't Dwarves, though.
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Actually, I'm now learning that a lot of items in Skyrim are described as Dwemer rather than Dwarven. Dwemer dish, large Dwemer strut, Dwemer metal.
This is because the Dwemer are dwarves and the two terms mean the same thing.
For example, the Spanish word for "red" is "roja." Likewise, the Bethesda word for "dwarves" is "dwemer."
They aren't Dwarves, though.
Yeah. They're mer. We know.
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Actually, I'm now learning that a lot of items in Skyrim are described as Dwemer rather than Dwarven. Dwemer dish, large Dwemer strut, Dwemer metal.
This is because the Dwemer are dwarves and the two terms mean the same thing.
For example, the Spanish word for "red" is "roja." Likewise, the Bethesda word for "dwarves" is "dwemer."
They aren't Dwarves, though.
Yeah. They're mer. We know.
Who's "we"?
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Actually, I'm now learning that a lot of items in Skyrim are described as Dwemer rather than Dwarven. Dwemer dish, large Dwemer strut, Dwemer metal.
This is because the Dwemer are dwarves and the two terms mean the same thing.
For example, the Spanish word for "red" is "roja." Likewise, the Bethesda word for "dwarves" is "dwemer."
They aren't Dwarves, though.
Yeah. They're mer. We know.
Who's "we"?
Everybody in this thread.
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Doesn't seem like it.
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Since we know the Dwemer are dwarves, but also mer, then the logical conclusion is that the elves of TES are in fact mutant dwarves. It makes sense, dwarves do sometimes have pointy ears.
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Does their unoriginality know no bounds?
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Today's adventures in Skyrim: I received a quest from an alchemist to find and return some void salts. I waited for her to turn around, grabbed the void salts off of her shelf, and gave them to her. Epic.
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Today's adventures in Skyrim: I received a quest from an alchemist to find and return some void salts. I waited for her to turn around, grabbed the void salts off of her shelf, and gave them to her. Epic.
You're not wrong, you're just an asshole.
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She paid me 250 septims for her own ingredient. Probably a good chunk of her life savings. Then I gazed wistfully at Red Mountain and dreamt of better videogames.
(http://i.imgur.com/uZKZz8g.jpg)
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The Red Mountain erupted, Alex. Vvardenfell is gone. You have to accept this and move on.
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You're right. Maybe Skyrim and Solstheim can be just as cool. But, wait a minute... what's that in the distance? Mushrooms...? Mushrooms that are larger than the nice normal ones we have on Earth? I thought I was playing the legendary Elder Scrolls series, not My Little Hobbit II: My First Fantasy Starter Kit.
(http://i.imgur.com/kbgKdQo.jpg)
These actually do look a bit like fungal Hobbit holes.
(http://i.imgur.com/OI0TaJT.jpg)
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Wow, giant versions of things that are on Earth are so original and refreshing. And elves are living in them? Oh my gosh, I can't have possibly imagined such a thing.
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Wow, giant versions of things that are on Earth are so original and refreshing. And elves are living in them? Oh my gosh, I can't have possibly imagined such a thing.
So what sort of setting would you find original and refreshing?
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So what sort of setting would you find original and refreshing?
The human mind cannot fathom an original setting.
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So what sort of setting would you find original and refreshing?
The human mind cannot fathom an original setting.
Right. Since we've already established that every setting you're familiar with is equally unoriginal, it wouldn't make any sense for you to comment on the originality of any setting. No setting is any less original than another.
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Also, I prefer Skyrim's classless levelling system.
You do? Even I thought that was taking the dumbing-down too far.
There's this Thane who named his dog Alduin in TESO. It made me smile.
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Right. Since we've already established that every setting you're familiar with is equally unoriginal, it wouldn't make any sense for you to comment on the originality of any setting. No setting is any less original than another.
Yes, I'm glad we finally see eye to eye. Both Oblivion and Morrowind have generic fantasy settings.
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Right. Since we've already established that every setting you're familiar with is equally unoriginal, it wouldn't make any sense for you to comment on the originality of any setting. No setting is any less original than another.
Yes, I'm glad we finally see eye to eye. Both Oblivion and Morrowind have generic fantasy settings.
Relative to what?
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Right. Since we've already established that every setting you're familiar with is equally unoriginal, it wouldn't make any sense for you to comment on the originality of any setting. No setting is any less original than another.
Yes, I'm glad we finally see eye to eye. Both Oblivion and Morrowind have generic fantasy settings.
Relative to what?
Relative to nothing. They're just generic fantasy settings in the same way that every fantasy setting in the world is generic. Why do you keep asking him this same question? His answer is stupid, but it's not going to change.
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Relative to what?
Why? Are you under the impression that for Morrowind and Oblivion to be generic fantasy settings, there must be a setting that isn't?
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Relative to what?
Why? Are you under the impression that for Morrowind and Oblivion to be generic fantasy settings, there must be a setting that isn't?
There does, or else your language in using generic is redundant to the point of stupidity. If all fantasy settings are generic then those generic traits are part of the definition of setting.
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There's a quest in Skyrim where you have to collect blood samples from an Altmer, Bosmer, Dunmer, Falmer and an Orsimer, so that a guy can use them to synthesize Dwemer blood. If the Dwemer were actually Dwarves, and not related to the Mer races, how could blood from the Mer be used to create Dwemer blood?
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Relative to what?
Why? Are you under the impression that for Morrowind and Oblivion to be generic fantasy settings, there must be a setting that isn't?
In order for you to call something generic derisively, yes, there must be.
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Relative to what?
Why? Are you under the impression that for Morrowind and Oblivion to be generic fantasy settings, there must be a setting that isn't?
In order for you to call something generic derisively, yes, there must be.
Oh, well in that case I can't condider Earth (though not its human manufactured areas) a generic setting since it is truly original.
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Oooooooooorrrr iiiiiiis iiiiit?
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Relative to what?
Why? Are you under the impression that for Morrowind and Oblivion to be generic fantasy settings, there must be a setting that isn't?
In order for you to call something generic derisively, yes, there must be.
Oh, well in that case I can't condider Earth (though not its human manufactured areas) a generic setting since it is truly original.
What? We aren't discussing absolutes. Originality is not a binary scale. Obviously you believe things can be more or less original than one another, otherwise you wouldn't sarcastically claim that something is "original and refreshing".
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I bet there's a billion planets that are more or less just like Earth. Original my ass.
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Also, I prefer Skyrim's classless levelling system.
You do? Even I thought that was taking the dumbing-down too far.
At first, I thought so too. What benefit do classes really provide, though?
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Also, I prefer Skyrim's classless levelling system.
You do? Even I thought that was taking the dumbing-down too far.
At first, I thought so too. What benefit do classes really provide, though?
Minmaxing
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I bet there's a billion planets that are more or less just like Earth. Original my ass.
>earth
>a planet
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I bet there's a billion planets that are more or less just like Earth. Original my ass.
>earth
>a planet
Yes?
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Damnnnnnnn rushy doesn't understand basic concepts of originality hence his username. And Every other aspect of his personality
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I bet there's a billion planets that are more or less just like Earth. Original my ass.
>earth
>a planet
Yes?
But bro! Earth is a flat!
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I bet there's a billion planets that are more or less just like Earth. Original my ass.
>earth
>a planet
Yes?
But bro! Earth is a flat!
So?
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And therefore not a planet!!!!11
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Also, I prefer Skyrim's classless levelling system.
You do? Even I thought that was taking the dumbing-down too far.
At first, I thought so too. What benefit do classes really provide, though?
Player creativity, for one.
It makes me feel like I'm closer to the character when I have to plan his build, weapons, powers, stats, etc. That's just me though. There's some planning at the beginning of Skyrim, but it eventually turns into an exploitable "I'm awesome with everything" system that got boring really quickly.
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And therefore not a planet!!!!11
Why not?
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Keep upper-forum discussion in the upper forums, thank you. Anyway, it's not so much the missing classes that I didn't like, but the missing attributes. It's like everyone is the same now. No one is stronger, faster, or smarter than anyone else.
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Keep upper forums discussion in the upper forums, thank you. Anyway, it's not so much the missing classes that I didn't like, but the missing attributes. It's like everyone is the same now. No one is stronger, faster, or smarter than anyone else.
I agree with this as well.
Three stats on level up really dumbs the game down a good bit.
I also enjoy jumping out of orbit, which is impossible in Skyrim. T_T
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I bet there's a billion planets that are more or less just like Earth. Original my ass.
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Also, I prefer Skyrim's classless levelling system.
You do? Even I thought that was taking the dumbing-down too far.
At first, I thought so too. What benefit do classes really provide, though?
Player creativity, for one.
It makes me feel like I'm closer to the character when I have to plan his build, weapons, powers, stats, etc. That's just me though. There's some planning at the beginning of Skyrim, but it eventually turns into an exploitable "I'm awesome with everything" system that got boring really quickly.
You can still plan your character with just as much control, you just don't have to lock yourself into an immutable plan right at the beginning. The classless system allows for more organic and believable character growth. Tamriel is not a vocational society where everybody is born into their skillset and profession. Just like on our own flat earth, people develop all sorts of odd combinations of skills over time (I definitely wish they would stop lopping off skills with each new game). For example, one of my characters is an Imperial who was a hunter during his early levels. After a profound religious experience, he dedicated his life to the service of Talos and began training as a knight. That wasn't something I had planned during character creation, so if I wanted to do the same thing in one of the previous games I would have to use the console.
As for becoming an overpowered jack-of-all-trades: that has always been possible. A class system like Morrowind's just makes it time consuming. It's also time consuming in Skyrim. I do miss attributes, though.
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What? Re-dedicating your build is the exact same thing in Morrowind, the only real difference is that in Skyrim you're a jack-of-all-trades from the get go so it doesn't matter what you do. Given that skills in Morrowind are tied into attributes, you're naturally gaining some expertise in skills you're not focusing on simply by raising the attributes they're governed by. And you can always visit a trainer to get a particular skill you want up to a level you want it to be at.
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What? Re-dedicating your build is the exact same thing in Morrowind, the only real difference is that in Skyrim you're a jack-of-all-trades from the get go so it doesn't matter what you do.
No, it is not the exact same thing. If you want to change anything about your class in Morrowind, you have to use enableclassmenu which can be very glitchy. You are not a jack-of-all-trades from the get go in Skyrim. You're bad at everything that you don't have a racial affinity for.
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You can still plan your character with just as much control, you just don't have to lock yourself into an immutable plan right at the beginning. The classless system allows for more organic and believable character growth. Tamriel is not a vocational society where everybody is born into their skillset and profession. Just like on our own flat earth, people develop all sorts of odd combinations of skills over time (I definitely wish they would stop lopping off skills with each new game). For example, one of my characters is an Imperial who was a hunter during his early levels. After a profound religious experience, he dedicated his life to the service of Talos and began training as a knight. That wasn't something I had planned during character creation, so if I wanted to do the same thing in one of the previous games I would have to use the console.
As for becoming an overpowered jack-of-all-trades: that has always been possible. A class system like Morrowind's just makes it time consuming. It's also time consuming in Skyrim. I do miss attributes, though.
No I can't. I can plan my character roughly with very limited control in Skyrim. I can choose a skill tree, focus on that, or I can put multiple points into multiple trees and become an underpowered shit character. All the while, I can choose one of three stats to improve upon level up. Wow, such customization.
I totally feel like I'm making my own unique character by choosing predetermined paths on a tree.
I didn't realize I was playing Diablo 2. Thank god Diablo 2 makes you think about what you put your points into, whereas Skyrim just gets easier and easier no matter what. And I'm still not a Spellsword! I PLAY ES TO BE A SPELLSWORD NOT A TREE-LOVER.
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No, it is not the exact same thing. If you want to change anything about your class in Morrowind, you have to use enableclassmenu which can be very glitchy.
You know that raising miscellaneous skills is an option, right?
You are not a jack-of-all-trades from the get go in Skyrim. You're bad at everything that you don't have a racial affinity for.
If by "bad at everything" you mean "everything is viable", then yes.
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I totally feel like I'm making my own unique character by choosing predetermined paths on a tree.
As opposed to just levelling a pre-determined list of skills to 100? That's just a stick. At least trees have multiple branches. As I said, I do miss attributes, but the perk system does allow for a great deal of customization. There are 251 perks in the game. Without using the "Legendary" skill reset, there's a soft level cap at around 80. While it isn't technically impossible to earn every perk in the game, it would never happen in the normal course of gameplay.
No, it is not the exact same thing. If you want to change anything about your class in Morrowind, you have to use enableclassmenu which can be very glitchy.
You know that raising miscellaneous skills is an option, right?
Miscellaneous skills do not level as quickly as major and minor skills. My skill progression would be stunted arbitrarily. You'll also never level up if you only increase miscellaneous skills. I would only be able to progress if I kept levelling my hunter skills, which wouldn't make sense. I would also be forever stuck with the label of my former class, and labels aren't PC.
If by "bad at everything" you mean "everything is viable", then yes.
Yeah, everything is potentially viable. You're still bad at almost everything in the beginning.
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You know which game has the best skill system? TESO. Provisioning, clothing, and woodworking for all!
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If by "bad at everything" you mean "everything is viable", then yes.
Yeah, everything is potentially viable. You're still bad at almost everything in the beginning.
That's called being a Jack-of-all-trades. Even if you're technically bad at those things according to the game, you can still use all of them to varying degrees of success early on in the game. Swording is just as viable as fireballing.
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I think you mean flameing.
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If you were actually bad at everything, you couldn't get out of Helgen alive. Being bad doesn't bring success, yet Skyrim is in the awkward position where you're either successful at anything you want or you're not getting anywhere.
It's not like the game is designed around "oh, I need to utilize this skill in this scenario", it's designed around letting you use whatever you want and having it be effective.
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If by "bad at everything" you mean "everything is viable", then yes.
Yeah, everything is potentially viable. You're still bad at almost everything in the beginning.
That's called being a Jack-of-all-trades. Even if you're technically bad at those things according to the game, you can still use all of them to varying degrees of success early on in the game. Swording is just as viable as fireballing.
Every ES game has allowed you to use every skill with varying degrees of success early in the game.
If you were actually bad at everything, you couldn't get out of Helgen alive.
Yes you can. You're accompanied by at least one powerful NPC for that entire sequence. I've escaped without even picking up a weapon or using magic.
Being bad doesn't bring success, yet Skyrim is in the awkward position where you're either successful at anything you want or you're not getting anywhere.
It's not like the game is designed around "oh, I need to utilize this skill in this scenario", it's designed around letting you use whatever you want and having it be effective.
Correct.
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it's designed around letting you use whatever you want and having it be effective.
Why would that be a bad thing?
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Every ES game has allowed you to use every skill with varying degrees of success early in the game.
Morrowind doesn't. In fact, it strongly discourages trying to develop skills that you aren't already proficient in, especially combat and magic skills.
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Every ES game has allowed you to use every skill with varying degrees of success early in the game.
Morrowind doesn't. In fact, it strongly discourages trying to develop skills that you aren't already proficient in, especially combat and magic skills.
Actually, it does. The degree of success just varies much more.
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it's designed around letting you use whatever you want and having it be effective.
Why would that be a bad thing?
Remember, Blanko likes stuff like Dark Souls, where if you're not dodging you're doing it wrong. : ]
Also, yeah, Alexandyr describes probably why I enjoyed Skyrim (and, at the time, Oblivion) more than I've enjoyed Morrowind thus far.
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Also, yeah, Alexandyr describes probably why I enjoyed Skyrim (and, at the time, Oblivion) more than I've enjoyed Morrowind thus far.
Why's that? Oblivion and Morrowind's class systems are very similar.
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It's how much a pain in the ass it is to level skills that aren't started out as a primary skill. Using daggers now is virtually pointless for me, as one out of every two-hundred ninety-two thousand hits connects (educated estimate [edumate]) so even if I want to train it I really can't unless I'm willing to suffer forever or use a skill trainer (which is dumb and I shouldn't have to).
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It's how much a pain in the ass it is to level skills that aren't started out as a primary skill. Using daggers now is virtually pointless for me, as one out of every two-hundred ninety-two thousand hits connects (educated estimate [edumate]) so even if I want to train it I really can't unless I'm willing to suffer forever or use a skill trainer (which is dumb and I shouldn't have to).
That's because you had no idea what you were doing when you started playing the game. Did it not occur to you to do some research the moment the character creation/stat distribution/star chart thing popped up? Having played Oblivion you should have been aware of the weird little quirks the series has. Also, having played Oblivion, you should have been aware of how the skill system works. Like Alex said, Oblivion and Morrowind have a very similar level up system.
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The Dwemer ruin Mzulft looks nothing like it does in Skyrim. Both the exterior and interior design is completely different, and there's no oculory at the one in TESO.
BETRAYAL!
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None of the dungeons that appear in both Skyrim and TESO really match up in design, but I kind of prefer TESO's approach to dungeons anyway, so I'm not too bothered by it.
And Vauxy, no video game in the world should require research prior to playing. They're supposed to be self-contained media.
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And Vauxy, no video game in the world should require research prior to playing. They're supposed to be self-contained media.
Is that why they sell strategy guides?
Regardless, Snupes should have known that not putting Shortsword/Dagger into your primary or secondary skills would be a bad idea if you plan on using such a weapon. Oblivion had pretty much the same mechanics. I was under the impression that she has played Oblivion.
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I don't think I've ever actually tried using a weapon for which my skill is only 5 or 10. I just created a character to test it out. My short blade skill was 5 and my agility was only 30. With an iron dagger, I was able to kill a mudcrab in six swings (three of them connected). Then I fought a rat and gave up somewhere around the 110th swing (four hits had connected and the rat was still at half health). I can see how that might be a problem. I began both fights with full fatigue. What an oxymoron. I'm glad they changed "fatigue" to "stamina".
And Vauxy, no video game in the world should require research prior to playing. They're supposed to be self-contained media.
Is that why they sell strategy guides?
Regardless, Snupes should have known that not putting Shortsword/Dagger into your primary or secondary skills would be a bad idea if you plan on using such a weapon. Oblivion had pretty much the same mechanics. I was under the impression that she has played Oblivion.
Strategy guides are:
1. Completely unnecessary and an obvious scam
2. Meant to be used to solve problems encountered during the course of gameplay, not before it
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None of the dungeons that appear in both Skyrim and TESO really match up in design, but I kind of prefer TESO's approach to dungeons anyway, so I'm not too bothered by it.
And Vauxy, no video game in the world should require research prior to playing. They're supposed to be self-contained media.
I don't mind that the look and design is a bit different, but the whole layout of the interior is completely different.
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I don't think I've ever actually tried using a weapon for which my skill is only 5 or 10. I just created a character to test it out. My short blade skill was 5 and my agility was only 30. With an iron dagger, I was able to kill a mudcrab in six swings (three of them connected). Then I fought a rat and gave up somewhere around the 110th swing (four hits had connected and the rat was still at half health). I can see how that might be a problem. I began both fights with full fatigue. What an oxymoron. I'm glad they changed "fatigue" to "stamina".
And Vauxy, no video game in the world should require research prior to playing. They're supposed to be self-contained media.
Is that why they sell strategy guides?
Regardless, Snupes should have known that not putting Shortsword/Dagger into your primary or secondary skills would be a bad idea if you plan on using such a weapon. Oblivion had pretty much the same mechanics. I was under the impression that she has played Oblivion.
Strategy guides are:
1. Completely unnecessary and an obvious scam
2. Meant to be used to solve problems encountered during the course of gameplay, not before it
Booting up the game, seeing "pick your star sign and create your class", then being clueless as to what to do is during the course of gameplay. Unless character creation is not considered gameplay???
And no, strategy guides were made as game memorabilia. Sometimes they have posters. No sane person this day and age would buy a strategy guide when they have the internet at the tips of their fingers.
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And Vauxy, no video game in the world should require research prior to playing. They're supposed to be self-contained media.
Is that why they sell strategy guides?
Strategy guides are for wusses. Anyway, yeah, I should not have to do research just to play a game. That's pretty dumb.
Regardless, Snupes should have known that not putting Shortsword/Dagger into your primary or secondary skills would be a bad idea if you plan on using such a weapon. Oblivion had pretty much the same mechanics. I was under the impression that she has played Oblivion.
I did. Many, many years ago. Eight, to be specific. I was a kid, and anything was fun at the time. Also, you're wrong, because in Oblivion you could still level up your non-primary-or-secondary dagger skill while...you know...actually hitting things. Whereas in Morrowind if it's not primary, you're going to get one in every 20349 hits. This makes it a, to use the technical term, "massive pain in the ass" to level it. I never had a problem with leveling things in Oblivion because not setting them as a primary stat didn't render them basically non-functional.
That said, if Oblivion's leveling system for non-primary-or-secondary was as much of a pain in the ass as Morrowind's (which I highly doubt for the reasons stated, but) then disregard my mention of Oblivion, because that's not a game I'm about to defend.
I don't think I've ever actually tried using a weapon for which my skill is only 5 or 10. I just created a character to test it out. My short blade skill was 5 and my agility was only 30. With an iron dagger, I was able to kill a mudcrab in six swings (three of them connected). Then I fought a rat and gave up somewhere around the 110th swing (four hits had connected and the rat was still at half health). I can see how that might be a problem. I began both fights with full fatigue. What an oxymoron. I'm glad they changed "fatigue" to "stamina".
Yes! I'm glad you can at least kind of see my problem, then. I didn't realize it would have that severe an impact on my skills. Sure, "dun be ratarded" and "git gud" and stuff is absolutely wonderful and helpful advice, but still, I did not estimate that severe a disability from it (especially since I didn't have it as low as 5 or 10 and had a bit higher agility).
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And Vauxy, no video game in the world should require research prior to playing. They're supposed to be self-contained media.
Is that why they sell strategy guides?
Strategy guides are for wusses. Anyway, yeah, I should not have to do research just to play a game. That's pretty dumb.
Regardless, Snupes should have known that not putting Shortsword/Dagger into your primary or secondary skills would be a bad idea if you plan on using such a weapon. Oblivion had pretty much the same mechanics. I was under the impression that she has played Oblivion.
I did. Many, many years ago. Eight, to be specific. I was a kid, and anything was fun at the time. Also, you're wrong, because in Oblivion you could still level up your non-primary-or-secondary dagger skill while...you know...actually hitting things. Whereas in Morrowind if it's not primary, you're going to get one in every 20349 hits. This makes it a, to use the technical term, "massive pain in the ass" to level it. I never had a problem with leveling things in Oblivion because not setting them as a primary stat didn't render them basically non-functional.
That said, if Oblivion's leveling system for non-primary-or-secondary was as much of a pain in the ass as Morrowind's (which I highly doubt for the reasons stated, but) then disregard my mention of Oblivion, because that's not a game I'm about to defend.
I get where you're coming from. The skill system in Oblivion is very similar to Morrowind's, but the whole "not hitting things" is not present in Oblivion. So yeah, you're right. It's much more of a pain to level up non-primary/secondary skills in Morrowind. Although, this could be easily solved by rerolling your character and picking primary/secondary skills you actually plan on using.
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I tried doing some other things using only miscellaneous skills. It's a great way to roleplay a physically and mentally handicapped person. Nothing works.
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why I enjoyed Skyrim (and, at the time, Oblivion)
Many, many years ago. Eight, to be specific. I was a kid, and anything was fun at the time.
that's not a game I'm about to defend
Don't be shy, Snupes. Tell us how you really feel about Oblivion.
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why I enjoyed Skyrim (and, at the time, Oblivion)
Many, many years ago. Eight, to be specific. I was a kid, and anything was fun at the time.
that's not a game I'm about to defend
Don't be shy, Snupes. Tell us how you really feel about Oblivion.
wat
I'm not saying it's bad, just that it's been so long since I played that I can't really fairly pass judgment on it.
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Also, Argonians are Mesoamericans.
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Also, Argonians are Mesoamericans.
Argonians are based on real life reptilian shapeshifters.
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They build Maya/Aztec style temples and pyramids.
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They build Maya/Aztec style temples and pyramids.
Who do you think built those IRL?
Humans? Lol no.
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eheheh hahah hehehe
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Hehehhehehehehe I've been drinking
ELDAR SCRALLS!!
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Not many know this but the Redguard were actually inspired by the blackmen.
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Not many know this but the Redguard were actually inspired by the blackmen.
Too far
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Originality is not a binary scale.
Incorrect. Something is either original or it isn't. The discussion on the scaled "uniqueness" of a work of art is irrelevant to whether it is original or not.
Obviously you believe things can be more or less original than one another, otherwise you wouldn't sarcastically claim that something is "original and refreshing".
How could you get that claim out of those two words? I certainly must be missing something here.
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Obviously you believe things can be more or less original than one another, otherwise you wouldn't sarcastically claim that something is "original and refreshing".
How could you get that claim out of those two words? I certainly must be missing something here.
Why would you make fun of something for being a certain way if it couldn't possibly be any other way?
Originality is not a binary scale.
Incorrect. Something is either original or it isn't. The discussion on the scaled "uniqueness" of a work of art is irrelevant to whether it is original or not.
So not all art is equally unique?
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Oh no, don't start this terrible discussion again.
wat
I'm not saying it's bad, just that it's been so long since I played that I can't really fairly pass judgment on it.
Aw. I was hoping for some quality Snupes bashing.
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This discussion is fruitful and exciting Saddam.
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He's got nothing. You know he's got nothing. He's not going to elaborate on his answer. He's not going to provide counter-examples. He's not going to lift a finger to make this discussion any more productive or any less of a pain to slog through. Please, just let it go.
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But what if he does?
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That's absurd. It would be like Parsifal going to a gym, or Thork not being an idiot. This is real life, not an RPG. People can't change who they are fundamentally.
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Fuck off, Saddam.
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And Blanko will always be an asshole.
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Originality is not a binary scale.
Incorrect. Something is either original or it isn't. The discussion on the scaled "uniqueness" of a work of art is irrelevant to whether it is original or not.
ur wrong.
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Why would you make fun of something for being a certain way if it couldn't possibly be any other way?
When was I making fun of it? Saddam made a basic incorrect assessment, that Oblivion is generic fantasy (it is) but that somehow Morrowind isn't (it also is). This entire discussion has been a result of that assessment and you appear to be arguing that Morrowind is in fact not generic. If you believe it is generic, then I don't really see the ongoing point of the discussion if we all agree TES is generic fantasy and can move on.
So not all art is equally unique?
Yes. Some art includes more novel material than others. (Once again noting novel != original)
Edit* Changed "no" to "yes"
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Saddam will never stop being a party pooper.
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Why would you make fun of something for being a certain way if it couldn't possibly be any other way?
When was I making fun of it? Saddam made a basic incorrect assessment, that Oblivion is generic fantasy (it is) but that somehow Morrowind isn't (it also is). This entire discussion has been a result of that assessment and you appear to be arguing that Morrowind is in fact not generic. If you believe it is generic, then I don't really see the ongoing point of the discussion if we all agree TES is generic fantasy and can move on.
When you sarcastically referred to it as original and refreshing, like we were just discussing. I'm not making any argument.
So not all art is equally unique?
Yes. Some art includes more novel material than others. (Once again noting novel != original)
Edit* Changed "no" to "yes"
Can you give us an example of a videogame that contains a lot of novel material?
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When you sarcastically referred to it as original and refreshing, like we were just discussing.
I wouldn't define that as "making fun" but okay.
I'm not making any argument.
Then what are you doing, exactly? An argument is "an exchange in which the participants have opposing views." Are you saying that you agree wholly with what I've been stating?
Can you give us an example of a videogame that contains a lot of novel material?
I don't have a list.
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Can you give us an example of a videogame that contains a lot of novel material?
Wolfenstein 3D
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When you sarcastically referred to it as original and refreshing, like we were just discussing.
I wouldn't define that as "making fun" but okay.
Call it whatever you want. The point remains the same.
I'm not making any argument.
Then what are you doing, exactly? An argument is "an exchange in which the participants have opposing views." Are you saying that you agree wholly with what I've been stating?
I'm not putting forth any views. I'm just axing questions.
Can you give us an example of a videogame that contains a lot of novel material?
I don't have a list.
Why would you need one?
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In my desperation to change the subject, I offer forth moar IRC copypasta:
<Saddam> lore
<Crudblud> No
<Crudblud> Lore makes me snore
<Blanko> Have you guys noticed how Saddam doesn't actually ever talk about lore
<Saddam> What a twist!
<Saddam> the lorefag has no lore
<Blanko> Alexandyr and beardo know way more about TES lore than Saddam does
<Saddam> ON the contrary, I know quite a bit about it
<Saddam> I just don't talk about it as much as I do continuity
<Saddam> Because the fact is that the lore itself isn't really set in stone
<Blanko> It's true
<Saddam> When people complain that something violates lore, what it usually amounts to is just them criticizing the writing
<Blanko> Anything can potentially be a retcon I mean transcription error yes :^)
<Saddam> Not even that
<Saddam> It's like when people say "This city shouldn't look like that"
<Crudblud> All lore problems with TESO could have been avoided if they'd just said it was an alternate universe Tamriel
<Saddam> How do they know what the city should look like?
<Saddam> Because they imagined it differently?
<Blanko> lolwut
<Saddam> Yes
<Blanko> You were complaining about that as well
<Blanko> And I argued against it
<Foxbox> Yeah m8
<Crudblud> m8 m8 m8
<Saddam> But that was a continuity issue, not one of lore
<Blanko> ok saddam
<Saddam> We have seen Windhelm and Riften in previous games
<Blanko> ok
<Crudblud> Saddam: No one cares, go away
<Blanko> Yes, with a timespan of a thousand years separating them
<Saddam> I've heard some people complain that, say, the Aldmeri Dominion isn't portrayed how it "should" be
<Saddam> And as evidence, they offer forth the absurdly biased Pocket Guide to the Empire
<Blanko> I could argue that nothing in TESO is as it should be because it's a shit game
<Saddam> Irrelevant to lore
And I stand by this. It's fine to criticize the writing or design of any part of the game, but it's not always a violation of lore.
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Bethesda give less shits about their lore than Metzen does about Warcraft.
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<Saddam> It's like when people say "This city shouldn't look like that"
loler. Remember when you thought Windhelm's layout in Skyrim was canon?
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Call it whatever you want. The point remains the same.
And what exactly is the point?
I'm not putting forth any views. I'm just axing questions.
Whether this is an argument or not has no bearing on you putting forth any views.
Why would you need one?
To provide an example, obviously. Why else would I ask for one?
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So I was thinking about the lore of the series and I had an interesting revelation....
Anybody notice the similarities between dwemer and typical Tolkien dwarves? Pretty startling. Its almost like they copy/paste dwarves into ES and called them a different name.
Thoughts?
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Call it whatever you want. The point remains the same.
And what exactly is the point?
It doesn't make sense to deride something for being a certain way when it couldn't possibly be any other way. I've already said that.
I'm not putting forth any views. I'm just axing questions.
Whether this is an argument or not has no bearing on you putting forth any views.
o................................................................................................ kay? Whether or not you consider this an argument doesn't matter.
Why would you need one?
To provide an example, obviously. Why else would I ask for one?
You'd like me to provide a list of videogames?
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It doesn't make sense to deride something for being a certain way when it couldn't possibly be any other way. I've already said that.
How so?
o................................................................................................ kay? Whether or not you consider this an argument doesn't matter.
If it doesn't matter, then why did you specifically state that this isn't an argument? Are you just inserting irrelevant information into the discussion, now? That's weird.
You'd like me to provide a list of videogames?
Of one's with more novel material than Morrowind, yes.
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It doesn't make sense to deride something for being a certain way when it couldn't possibly be any other way. I've already said that.
How so?
If, as you say, all fantasy settings are necessarily and inherently equally unoriginal, then mocking one for being unoriginal would be like mocking a person for having skin.
You'd like me to provide a list of videogames?
Of one's with more novel material than Morrowind, yes.
Sorry, I thought I was clear about the fact that I was asking for your opinion. What videogames that you are aware of have more novel material than Morrowind?
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If, as you say, all fantasy settings are necessarily and inherently equally unoriginal, then mocking one for being unoriginal would be like mocking a person for having skin.
I was mocking you and Saddam, not the game itself. I don't blame the game for being unoriginal, I blame both of you for telling people it is, or worse, actually believing it is.
Sorry, I thought I was clear about the fact that I was asking for your opinion. What videogames that you are aware of have more novel material than Morrowind?
Still need that list, dude.
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What list dude?
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What list dude?
That list of games you were talking about.
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I'm talking about the videogames that you're aware of. The ones that you can recall at least basic information about using your brain. Would you like me to prepare a list of videogames that you're aware of?
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I'm talking about the videogames that you're aware of. The ones that you can recall at least basic information about using your brain. Would you like me to prepare a list of videogames that you're aware of?
I can think of two and one of them has more novel material than Morrowind.
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Is rushy Foreign?
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I'm talking about the videogames that you're aware of. The ones that you can recall at least basic information about using your brain. Would you like me to prepare a list of videogames that you're aware of?
I can think of two and one of them has more novel material than Morrowind.
Okay. Game over. Game, set, match. Point Alexandyr. GG, no re, Morrowind wins, and you can never post in this thread again.
Oh wait I didn't read that right lol. What's the one game with more novel material?
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Okay. Game over. Game, set, match. Point Alexandyr. GG, no re, Morrowind wins, and you can never post in this thread again.
Do come back when you want to try again.
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No wait what's the one game!!!
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No wait what's the one game!!!
Oblivion.
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No wait what's the one game!!!
Oblivion.
What's the most novel thing about Oblivion?
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What's the most novel thing about Oblivion?
It's like an RPG and an FPS at the same time. Mind-blowing.
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Okay, well, good talk. I think we all learned a lot. If you ever gain the ability to remember more than two videogames at once, let me know.
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Okay, well, good talk. I think we all learned a lot. If you ever gain the ability to remember more than two videogames at once, let me know.
I can rest now knowing that no one in this thread will ever think of Morrowind as anything but a work of generic Tolkien-era fantasy ever again.
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[20:50:13] <@Snupes> To be fair, every thread in FES derails into three pages of people asking one another "why are you so stupid?"
[20:50:17] <@Snupes> Case in point: TES thread
[20:51:13] <@Snupes> All life in every conversation quickly gets sucked out of it so everyone can stroke their egos and smile smugly downwards at the other in some weird Möbius strip of self-wankery.
I stand by this statement more than ever
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Why so serious?
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<Saddam> It's like when people say "This city shouldn't look like that"
loler. Remember when you thought Windhelm's layout in Skyrim was canon?
Again, that was a continuity issue, not a lore issue. When I talk about supposed lore issues, I'm talking about people who get an image in their heads of what a city "should" look like based upon its descriptions in the lore, and then complain because the developers didn't give them what they were picturing. For example, there was Diego's bawing in his rant that the Imperial City's design somehow violated lore simply because it wasn't as big and impressive as he would have liked. That's not how lore works.
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The greatest city in all of Tamriel has a total population of maybe a few hundred people.
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Irrelevant. The populations of video game worlds are condensed to make them playable.
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Irrelevant. The populations of video game worlds are condensed to make them playable.
No, the TES universe is just tiny.
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Irrelevant. The populations of video game worlds are condensed to make them playable.
No, the TES universe is just tiny.
Starcraft universe is tiny because there can only be 100 SCVs per player. What is that 800 or 1600?
There are roughly 2500 npcs in the Morrowind
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Irrelevant. The populations of video game worlds are condensed to make them playable.
No, the TES universe is just tiny.
I see you haven't played Daggerfall.
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I wanna play modded daggerfall, Is that a thing?
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I wanna play modded daggerfall, Is that a thing?
No.
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Irrelevant. The populations of video game worlds are condensed to make them playable.
(http://www.xboxachievements.com/images/screenshots/916/med_AC2_S_047_Smoke_Bomb.jpg)
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I wanna play modded daggerfall, Is that a thing?
It is, but it's still not very good.
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Guest 03:42:55 PM Printing the topic "The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion".
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Guest 03:42:55 PM Printing the topic "The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion".
It's as if millions of trees suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.
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That just means they're viewing the text-only screen, which also happens to be the print screen.
Discuss TESO nao.
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Saddam is the fun-killer.
Saddam is the little death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my Saddam.
I will permit it to pass over and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where Saddam has gone there will be nothing.
Only fun will remain.
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Malacath could beat up Boethia.
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Saddam is the fun-killer.
Saddam is the little death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my Saddam.
I will permit it to pass over and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where Saddam has gone there will be nothing.
Only fun will remain.
What do you have to say about TESO?
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Not much. I haven't played it in weeks.
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but but but you paid for it
what is wrong with you
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I'm sure I'll sub at least once more just to explore the rest of the landscape, but for now I'm just not inspired. Whenever I think about playing ESO I realize I'd rather just play Morrowind or Skyrim. Or even Oblivion, maybe. ESO is just a very bland game. So far reaching is its bland influence that I'm having trouble even describing it or mocking it in an interesting way. Maybe if they overhaul cities and implement player and/or guild housing then I'll be interested.
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I only have 3 days left until my first payment. And I haven't finished the game yet.
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Saddam is perturbed as to why no one seems to like playing a shitty game.
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Saddam has become addicted. You should quit before it becomes ingrained!
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People who have never played an MMO similar to TESO before may find themselves stuck in a Skinner box they that haven't learned how to get out of.
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I've played WoW and SWTOR. I am no stranger to linear theme park MMOs.
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I've played WoW and SWTOR. I am no stranger to linear theme park MMOs.
"Trick me once, shame on you, trick me twice..."
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Hardly tricking. While its generic WoW-ness has been disappointing, at the end of the day, I'm there for the Elder Scrolls. Even a mediocre TES experience is worthwhile for me.
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Hardly tricking. While its generic WoW-ness has been disappointing, at the end of the day, I'm there for the Elder Scrolls. Even a mediocre TES experience is worthwhile for me.
You're weird.
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Delusional fanboyism.
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WoW does everything better, especially the lore. And that's saying something.
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Hardly tricking. While its generic WoW-ness has been disappointing, at the end of the day, I'm there for the Elder Scrolls. Even a mediocre TES experience is worthwhile for me.
You're weird.
I'm a dedicated fan. Look, I don't judge you for your strange interests; don't judge me for mine.
Delusional fanboyism.
Go suck a morowang.
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lore lore lore
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I like to think that the true delusional fanboys are too offended by ESO to play for more than a few hours.
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I like to think that the true delusional fanboys are too offended by ESO to play for more than a few hours.
No, those are just regular fanboys. Saddam here is a delusional one. There's a difference.
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http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/08/14/the-elder-scrolls-online-teases-update-4-with-upper-craglorn-the-serpent-trial-and-more/
"Upper" Craglorn? Great priorities, ZeniMax. This is totally what all the fans were hoping for. ::)
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The mysterious tale of Craglorn continues as you and your friends explore a new region of the Adventure Zone and take on the new Trial that awaits you there
>and your friends
yeeeah.....
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Adventure Zone
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I will if somebody says something bad about Morrowind again.
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It's impossible to talk about Morrowind without saying something bad about Morrowind. Literally nothing exists that is good about Morrowind.
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Anybody?
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Why would anybody else bite for your terrible Morrowind fanboy trolling? Reminds me of dolts still arguing that Half-Life is the most perfect FPS ever graced upon mankind.
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epic rush
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Morrowind is bad because it lets you discard important quest items.
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Morrowind is bad because it lets you discard important quest items.
You're bad if you unintentionally discard important quest items.
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I've met a Dunmer in Solstheim that has a uniquely Scottish accent.
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Dunmer apparently became British at some point between Oblivion and Skyrim.
It's implied in the 36 lessons that Sotha Sil and Almalexia could not have become gods without Vivec, the joining element.
Which is obviously ridiculous. The 36 lessons are a very amusing read, but they're not true.
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You're to have to be more specific than "they're not true".
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The Thirty-Six Lessons of Vivec.
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They're fiction. Presumably they were meant as parables, hence their name, but they didn't really happen (inb4 "none of this really happened lol"). Vivec wasn't some kind of godchild hatched from a talking egg. And I'm pretty sure he never really managed to stifle a lady's Thu'um with his dick.
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Vivec's "milk finger" was probably just Muatra, his penis-spear. Although some of the actual events might be described in an exagerrated and religious way, I don't see why The 36 Lessons couldn't be trusted to describe the nature of the Tribunal accurately.
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And I'm pretty sure he never really managed to stifle a lady's Thu'um with his dick.
Vivec's "milk finger" was probably just Muatra, his penis-spear.
What the hell am I reading, this sounds like shitty Morrowind fanfiction
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What the hell am I reading
lore lore lore
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And I'm pretty sure he never really managed to stifle a lady's Thu'um with his dick.
Vivec's "milk finger" was probably just Muatra, his penis-spear.
What the hell am I reading, this sounds like shitty Morrowind fanfiction
Vivec is very sexual. His spear sometimes metaphorically represents his penis. Sometimes his penis metaphorically represents his spear. Vivec also once smothered Ysmir with her vagina.
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And I'm pretty sure he never really managed to stifle a lady's Thu'um with his dick.
Vivec's "milk finger" was probably just Muatra, his penis-spear.
What the hell am I reading, this sounds like shitty Morrowind fanfiction
It is. In fact, it's in-universe fanfiction.
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It is. In fact, it's in-universe fanfiction.
That doesn't make any sense. Vivec is not a fan of the Elder Scrolls series.
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Vivec is not a fan of the Elder Scrolls series.
Do you have any evidence for this?
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I think the burden of proof is on Saedam there.
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It's a fanfic about himself, really.
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Why do you think so?
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Bethesda kept Morrowind from being a porno, which considering how bad it already is, could have made it better.
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Vivec was a huge Vivec fan, and Vongeo is a wise Orc scholar.
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Is the Qu'ran Muhammed Fanfic?
Is Timequake Kurt Vonnegut Fanfic?
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Is the Qu'ran Muhammed Fanfic?
Is Timequake Kurt Vonnegut Fanfic?
Nah, the Qu'ran is an unlicensed Bibel Extended Universe novel.
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Out of curiosity, were Thu'um canon before Skyrim was announced? Like, were they a thing?
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Yes. It was pretty undetailed and a bit mysterious before they made Skyrim though.
Is undetailed a word? According to spell checking it's not.
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Out of curiosity, were Thu'um canon before Skyrim was announced? Like, were they a thing?
I think the language of the Dragons existed before Skyrim, but I'm not sure about it being used as magic by non-dragons. I think Skyrim retconed the Dragonborn into lore and gave him the powers of a dragon via "Thu'ums". Research on the subject doesn't really provide satisfactory results, but I don't think "Thu'um" existed before Skyrim... at least the word "Thu'um" was never used before Skyrim.
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Out of curiosity, were Thu'um canon before Skyrim was announced? Like, were they a thing?
Yes, it has been a concept since Morrowind. Like I said, Vived stifled people's Thu'um with his genitals.
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Was it referred to as "thu'ums" or is it just some vague description that you are interpreting independently?
What I mean is, source?
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Yes, it was described in The Five Songs of King Wulfharth.
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It's been around since Redguard, actually. It was described in greater detail in the first PGE:
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pocket_Guide_to_the_Empire,_1st_Edition/Skyrim
The Nords have long practiced a spiritual form of magic known as "The Way of the Voice", based largely on their veneration of the Wind as the personification of Kynareth. Nords consider themselves to be the children of the sky, and the breath and the voice of a Nord is his vital essence. Through the use of the Voice, the vital power of a Nord can be articulated into a thu'um, or shout. Shouts can be used to sharpen blades or to strike enemies at a distance.
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I would play sci-fi TESO. I can't think of any space games that are fantasy based. Most space games that are released lean heavily towards "realism".
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I would play sci-fi TESO. I can't think of any space games that are fantasy based. Most space games that are released lean heavily towards "realism".
...how high are you right now?
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...how high are you right now?
I'm not. I legitimately think that a fantasy sci-fi game would be an interesting play. Such a game could get away with a lot more crazy shenanigans.
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What do you mean by sci-fi fantasy, though? Something like Star Wars, where there is both "magic" and advanced technology? Most people find science fiction appealing because it describes things that could possibly happen and exist, given enough time. Wildstar might fit your description. I haven't played it, but it looks like it combines traditional fantasy and sci-fi elements.
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What do you mean by sci-fi fantasy, though? Something like Star Wars, where there is both "magic" and advanced technology? Most people find science fiction appealing because it describes things that could possibly happen and exist, given enough time. Wildstar might fit your description. I haven't played it, but it looks like it combines traditional fantasy and sci-fi elements.
Yeah, sort of like Star Wars, but not straight magic. Star Wars has very vague rules on how the Force works, not to mention Lucas ruined the whole thing by claiming it is caused by a fucking blood infection.
I've heard of Wildstar but never investigated it.
Ah, I did look into it. It's not quite what I had in mind.
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...how high are you right now?
I'm not. I legitimately think that a fantasy sci-fi game would be an interesting play. Such a game could get away with a lot more crazy shenanigans.
I feel like Destiny is trying to be this. Minus the MMO part.
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Destiny seems like pure sci-fi to me. Bungie seems to be sticking to what they know, which is power armor and aliens. I may have missed something, since I haven't been following it closely.
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Destiny seems like pure sci-fi to me. Bungie seems to be sticking to what they know, which is power armor and aliens. I may have missed something, since I haven't been following it closely.
Well, there is something called "space magic" (really) and there is a Warlock class who specializes in this. I haven't been following the game closely either, but it seems mostly sci-fi with elements of fantasy thrown in.
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Certainly not.
lol@lies
Although I suppose what you said was true at the time. You weren't planning on buying it then.
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heehehehehehe
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Vanus Galerion has one of the worst voices in the game. It's high-pitched, grating, and has a distinct American accent. It sounds almost like the voice that Trey Parker uses for generic adults on South Park. Still, at least he's alive in this time period, so I'm spared having to deal with yet another fucking ghost.
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I haven't heard his voice, but to be fair, an American accent doesn't make any less sense than any other terrestrial accent for any inhabitant of Nirn.
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It's fantasy. American accents aren't allowed in fantasy.
<Saddam> Why are there so many ghosts in this game?
<beardo> Saddam: why are there so many living in this game?
<Saddam> Veloth, Ysgramor, Shalidor, etc.
<Saddam> At this rate, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if fucking Lorkhan's ghost popped up for a chat
<beardo> Oh no, my armour is damaged. Let's go to a food merchant and have him repair it!
<Saddam> And I don't think Lorkhan would really have a ghost in the traditional sense
<beardo> no
<Blanko> Saddam: Sounds like something Kirkbride would write
<Saddam> Maybe Kirkbride is secretly a writer for this game!
<Saddam> dun dun dun
<Blanko> He's a
<Blanko> GHOST WRITER
<Saddam> YEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
<Saddam> I hope you put your sunglasses on as you wrote that
<Blanko> I don't have sunglasses
<Saddam> You fool
<Saddam> But seriously, it's pretty lazy writing to constantly just have a ghost pop up to tell me what to do
<Saddam> Any murder in the world could be instantly solved by just casually asking the ghost
<Saddam> Maybe that's why the Dark Brotherhood isn't in this game
<Blanko> Don't give them ideas
<Saddam> Actually, the Fighters Guild questline is partially about finding a murderer
<Saddam> They summon the ghost, ask him who murdered him, and boom, mystery solved
<Saddam> So I guess they already had the idea
<Blanko> CSI Tamriel
<Saddam> I bet they actually carry their sunglasses with them in anticipation of making puns
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I am truly upset at having missed such witty and sharp conversation.
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Indeed. All of those witticisms.
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But guys, if Saddam didn't incessantly post his IRC conversations here, a wide audience wouldn't be able to appreciate his clever commentary.
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Ghost Writer was a pretty good show.
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morrobump:
I think there is some sort of double standard going on here. Some of you seem to think that Oblivion is generic because of its setting, which many of you have likened to Tolkien's Middle-Earth. However, Oblivion obviously does not take place in Middle-Earth.
Now, when we use the same argument against you: "Dwemer share many similarities with Dwarves, therefore they are a generic archetype". Your tone changes completely. Now, somehow it's forgivable that they based Dwemer on Dwarves and it's not generic at all. Why is that given that they share so many similarities?
I won't deny that the Dwemer are inspired in part by Tolkein's dwarfs, however, Dwemer are only a small part of Morrowind's setting. Nearly everything about Oblivion is generic. The landscape, the architecture, the fire and brimstone antagonist, etc. There's plenty of interesting stuff, but almost none of it is on the surface. That isn't necessarily a bad thing.
The wisdom of Alexandyr. What "interesting stuff" were you thinking of, by the way? I don't disagree or anything, but I'm curious as to what you had in mind.
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Oh god not this shit
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Okay, I'd just like to take this moment to beg Alexandyr and Rushy not to start their low-content yes-it-is-no-it-isn't exchange up again. Debate is cool, tedious pedantry is not.
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Morrowind is just as generic as any other TES game.
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Morrowind is just as generic as any other TES game.
Irrelevant. We are talking about Oblivion right now.
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Irrelevant. We are talking about Oblivion right now.
Well since I made an equivocal statement it is in fact quite relevant. See, watch:
Oblivion is just as generic as any other TES game.
It doesn't matter which game I refer to because the sentence refers to all of them simultaneously. You should know better, Saddam.
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I liked the remnants of the Ayleid civilization, like the magical stones and the ruins. Mainly because it was actually a culture we could investigate and find out more about, and there wasn't much of that in the overall game. Almost everyone, regardless of their race or location, was just part of this bland homogeneous blob of Imperial subjects. That is itself a culture, and I won't claim that it's any more or less "generic" than the Nord culture or the Dunmer culture or whatever, but the lack of variety was a big disappointment to me.
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With each new game a lot of new peripheral lore is introduced through new books, dialogue, places, and occasionally sources outside the game, and there's always a lot of it so something is bound to be interesting. I can't think of any specific examples from Oblivion at the moment apart from the weird stuff Kirkbride included in Knights of the Nine.
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Each new game? Even TESO? :D
I never played Knights of the Nine. Or Shivering Isles, for that matter. I've heard they're good, though, so I may get to them someday.
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Yes, even that.
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I never played Knights of the Nine. Or Shivering Isles, for that matter. I've heard they're good, though, so I may get to them someday.
I thought you liked Oblivion.
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I do, but I had bought it for the 360 (don't judge me) and now it's borken. So I'll just buy the whole thing on Steam one of these days, maybe when there's a sale next.
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foppish pansy
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I do, but I had bought it for the 360 (don't judge me) and now it's borken. So I'll just buy the whole thing on Steam one of these days, maybe when there's a sale next.
Make sure to bring some sweetrolls.
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Speaking of generic fire and brimstone, Coldharbour is pretty cool. Not the linear corridors that you have to follow in the first few quests of the main story, but the open-world version of it that you get to explore near the end. It's bold and striking, with eerie forests and blue lighting and weird enemies.
After playing the game nonstop for hours and hours today, I've finally beaten it. That is to say, the main story. I now get to play through the Daggerfall Covenant, and after that, the Aldmeri Dominion. This is made possible through some kind of magic that Meridia uses, her reasoning being that players don't want to go through the hassle of grinding a new character and slogging through the main story again in order to properly understand the conflict currently raging on Tamriel, I must see it from the perspectives of the other sides. Or something like that.
Also, Vanus Galerion's voice isn't really that bad. It grew on me after a while, and he's such a funny and likable character that I couldn't stay mad. Actually, that's one thing I really like about this game - the main characters are all pretty neat. They're far more distinctive and memorable than the ones in Bethesda's games, anyway.
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That's dumb. I'm willing to bet you would have happily plodded through another character grind to experience the other main quests, thus taking longer and therefore spending more money. ESO is MMO'ing incorrectly.
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Stros M'Kai is quite different to how it appeared in Redguard. Betrayal! At least it still has the statue of Hunding, though.
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Betrayal!
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As if you care. Only Alexandyr and I have played Redguard. The rest of you were too cowardly.
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I've played Redguard. It sucks.
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Liar liar, pants on fire.
Sword gauge and candle stick magic meter are not my idea of fun. Sorry.
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I was talking about you playing Redguard, not your opinion of it. You totally didn't play it.
Alexandyr, tell us your opinion of the game.
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I've barely played it at all, but, my brief experience with the gameplay was pretty so-so, but the setting and more importantly, the near complete reboot of ES lore up to that point were excellent and the changes paved the way for the creation of our glorious lord and savior, Morrowind.
Eventually I do plan on going back and finishing it, so it wasn't that terrible.
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Oo sadam some idiots on the internet are arguing if having thousands of pointless details make better lore than an interpretive story which carries themes but is not immediately apparent.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/606312-dark-souls/65001569?page=4
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I like DS's lore, and the minimalist way that it's communicated is refreshing when compared to how most video games deliver exposition, but I wouldn't want every game I played to be like that. It's appropriate for the type of the game that DS is, just like ES's lore is appropriate for the kind of series that it is.
Also, on the notion of lore, behold:
http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2g0x5l/ama_with_the_eso_writing_team/
They answered some interesting questions. Off the top of my head, they like reading r/teslore, enjoyed C0DA, and confirmed that Vivec and Sotha Sil will appear in TESO eventually.
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The low bumbling voice some of the male Khajiit has is really annoying.
-
The low bumbling voice some of the male Khajiit has is really annoying.
Gotta love Weebam-Na, though.
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Okay, so it turned out that I dun goofed during my discussion with Vongeo way back when:
It feels like it wouldn't really jibe with the lore to play as a race in a different alliance. Not that it could never be justified, but I highly doubt there's anything in the writing that might actually address the discrepancy, and it's probably just something you'd be expected to ignore. I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't have an issue with that, but if it were me, I'd just play as a member of my race's default alliance.
As for your race, I suggest you stick with the Orcs. You have a lot in common with them. They're big, green, have excessive elbows, are misunderstood by society, and live in strongholds.
Not everyone in the same race has the same agenda Saddamit. And I think a high-elf awknowledged it.
That's right, but my issue is that I don't think it will be addressed in-game. You'll probably just get the exact same dialogue as everyone else, nobody raising an eyebrow over the fact that you're a foreigner who's apparently on their side.
An elf said "Just cuz I'm a high elf doesn't mean I support the aldermari dominion. A person can be born anywhere regardless of race.
I know. But that character works because the writing is different for him. That's my whole point. Now imagine if that elf was talking with a Nord accent, and was making the same jingoistic racial comments as most of the Nords do, without a word of explanation towards the fact that he himself is an Altmer. In short, imagine if the game had treated him like just another Nord. That wouldn't have worked. It would have been weird and jarring.
I hadn't realized that he was talking about an Altmer in the Daggerfall Covenant. For some reason, I thought he was referring to this guy (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Legate_Fasendil). Yeah, from Skyrim. I really don't know what I was thinking to make such an absurd assumption, but I guess I hadn't realized that he had already begun playing TESO at that point. It's only now that I'm playing through the Covenant storyline and have met the Altmer in question that I realized my mistake. Derp.
With that out of the way, he was right that playing as a foreigner through the Covenant storyline doesn't feel off, because while the majority of NPCs are Bretons, Redguards, and Orcs, there are still plenty of foreigners around, and nobody bats an eye at any of them. And given what we know about the Covenant and its mercantile motivations, that actually makes sense. They care about free trade and prosperity, not what race you or anyone else is. It's not like the Ebonheart Pact, which is of course big on racial pride and defending their sovereignty, which results in there being very few non-hostile foreign NPCs you can encounter during its storyline. lore lore lore
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Vongeo was right.
-
Yes, Vongeo, you were right. Also:
"You are the first to come here in many long centuries, since this place was sealed."
There's that infamous line that literally everyone (or a few people, whatever) mocked during the beta! BAW GENRE BLINDNESS
So now I have a horse, and I love how this works. All you have to do is press H, and you whistle for your horse, which materializes on the spot, followed by you automatically hopping on. When you dismount, the horse magically vanishes.
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So now I have a horse, and I love how this works. All you have to do is press H, and you whistle for your horse, which materializes on the spot, followed by you automatically hopping on. When you dismount, the horse magically vanishes.
Wow. That's really unrealistic. Even for a Scrolls game. It should at least show you casting some sort of teleport spell, or summoning the horse from the planes of oblivion. Whistling is not magic. 0/10
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You're supposed to pretend it's closeby all the time, duh
-
No, I think it's kind of like playing that song for Epona in Zelda games. Your horse hears your summons and promptly returns to your side.
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No, I think it's kind of like playing that song for Epona in Zelda games. Your horse hears your summons and promptly returns to your side.
Epona doesn't materialize. She runs to you from far off screen.
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High Rock is really boring. It's even more generic medieval European fantasy than Cyrodiil in Oblivion.
-
High Rock is really boring. It's even more generic medieval European fantasy than Cyrodiil in Oblivion.
How is that possible?
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I may have exaggerated somewhat. But still, the quests especially feel very stock. So far, most of them are just "Generic bandits/Daedric worshippers have taken over this settlement! Can you get rid of them for us?" There's nothing that makes them feel distinct or unique compared to quests that we'd see in other zones or alliances.
To be fair, though, Bretons were already kind of boring in the lore. ZeniMax probably didn't have much to work with.
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Bill Nighy the Science Guyi?
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(http://www.hollybollyhub.com/bill-nighy-hot.jpg)
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huge
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Okay, I take back what I said about the Daedric Princes and their worshippers being generic. What I should have said is that Molag Bal is generic. He's just evil, and, well, that's it. Technically, his sphere is domination and enslavement, but the in-game translation of this seems to be that everything he and his followers do is for the evulz. It's just bizarre. We can at least understand the draw of the other Princes by looking at their spheres - Hermaeus Mora appeals to curiosity and the seeking of knowledge, Sanguine to base, hedonistic desires, etc. - but why would anyone worship or follow Molag Bal?
Anyway, I'm making this distinction because the game is much better when it focuses on the other Princes, which it sadly doesn't do all that often. We already know that Molag Bal is the main villain. He's the one who stole your soul, after all. We don't need to keep running into his followers at least once in every zone just to reinforce what a bad guy he is.
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Okay, I take back what I said about the Daedric Princes and their worshippers being generic. What I should have said is that Molag Bal is generic. He's just evil, and, well, that's it. Technically, his sphere is domination and enslavement, but the in-game translation of this seems to be that everything he and his followers do is for the evulz. It's just bizarre. We can at least understand the draw of the other Princes by looking at their spheres - Hermaeus Mora appeals to curiosity and the seeking of knowledge, Sanguine to base, hedonistic desires, etc. - but why would anyone worship or follow Molag Bal?
Anyway, I'm making this distinction because the game is much better when it focuses on the other Princes, which it sadly doesn't do all that often. We already know that Molag Bal is the main villain. He's the one who stole your soul, after all. We don't need to keep running into his followers at least once in every zone just to reinforce what a bad guy he is.
Followers of Molag Bal are probably people we would consider psychopathic, murderous, sadistic, narcissistic, etc. Basically: trolls. It makes sense from a lore perspective, there are many Daedric princes, all governing over something having to do with human nature. Evil is pretty much the embodiment of humanity.
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Molag Bal is the favored deity of Internet trolls. I like it. Anyway, here's something funny about Vivec and Kirkbride:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/94926/kissing-up-to-murdering-charlatans-lore-issue-for-nerds-you-have-been-warned
I really don't look forward to Vivec ever being in the game now, as I absolutely despise him. Mind you this is mainly coloured by the non-canon scribblings of his insane author, who likes to live vicariously through Vivec and turned him into an invincible mary sue who totally survived Morrowind then ate Azura and got away with everything!
Kirkbride's vicarious fantasies annoy me. I hate author avatars in general, because they invariably win at everything, become universally admired and have all of the sex.
Well I'm not saying Kirkbride's stuff is entirely without merit he just refuses to balance his writings and just has Vivec win at everything.
He's also a complete ***. I once argued with him over his daft concept that Nirn was flat. When I showed him the evidence primarily from Redguard and Oblivion that Nirn is indeed round like any other planet he started flaming me.
This guy cannot accept he is one among many writers you see. He still thinks Morrowind is his personal opus.
Is this true, PP? Is Vivec a self-insertion Mary Sue fantasy? And is Nirn really flat?
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FNS
Flat Nirn Society
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But Kirkbride characterizes Nirn as round in C0DA.
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Is this true, PP? Is Vivec a self-insertion Mary Sue fantasy? And is Nirn really flat?
I would agree that it wasn't always that way but that he is now. That doesn't necessarily make him a bad character.
I vaguely remember a somewhat supported theory that Nirn sat atop the back of a giant dragon, which would make it kind of flat, but now I can't find any information about this at all. There are desk globes in the game Daggerfall, which suggests that Nirnians at least believe that the Nirn is round. I'm not sure.
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But Kirkbride characterizes Nirn as round in C0DA.
You read C0DA? Why? You hate lore. Also:
Maybe TESO will feature Dwemer soon, and then we'll be able to settle this issue.
There are some in the second section of the daggerfall Covenant. Everyone hates them and I think they are slaving stuff.
I can confirm that this is incorrect. Not sure what you were even thinking of.
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But Kirkbride characterizes Nirn as round in C0DA.
You read C0DA? Why? You hate lore. Also:
Maybe TESO will feature Dwemer soon, and then we'll be able to settle this issue.
There are some in the second section of the daggerfall Covenant. Everyone hates them and I think they are slaving stuff.
I can confirm that this is incorrect. Not sure what you were even thinking of.
Vongeo'd.
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But Kirkbride characterizes Nirn as round in C0DA.
You read C0DA? Why? You hate lore. Also:
Maybe TESO will feature Dwemer soon, and then we'll be able to settle this issue.
There are some in the second section of the daggerfall Covenant. Everyone hates them and I think they are slaving stuff.
I can confirm that this is incorrect. Not sure what you were even thinking of.
I thought in that city with the paranoid guard captain they have a slave ship and capture some people.
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They were Dunmer.
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How do you even mistake Dunmer with Dwemer?
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ZeniMax is doing their part for social justice:
<Saddam> beerdo: There's a quest in TESO about trans people
<Saddam> I thought you might like to know that
<Saddam> Okay, not literally trans people
<Snupes> Is there really
<Snupes> wow
<Saddam> But it's a pretty obvious parallel to trans people
<Saddam> It's about an Argonian who says that she's really a crocodile
<Saddam> Stop laughing
<Saddam> http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/119428/a-predators-heart
<Saddam> There's someone going into more detail about it
<Snupes> Is it mocking
<Saddam> No
<Saddam> It works out in the end, in fact
<Blanko> :)
<Saddam> You give her the heart of this old crocodile you kill, and then she magically reincarnates as a crocodile or something
<Saddam> something something lore, I guess
<Blanko> mffw
<Snupes> wh
<Saddam> The writers confirmed in their recent AMA session that they're quite socially progressive
<beerdo> All my life, I have harbored a secret. I am not a man. I am a Batman!
<Saddam> There's a number of gay relationships portrayed too
<Snupes> Was it actually a trans parallel or just one of those old sorts of joke stories like that?
<Snupes> "I may look like a human but I'm actually a(n) [insert animal/inanimate object here]" is a staple of everything ever.
<Snupes> Though usually the person is just cray cray.
<Saddam> It seemed sincere to me
<Saddam> Seriously
<Snupes> Hm.
<Snupes> I guess it just sounds really ridiculous, maybe it'd be different had I played it
<Snupes> Just seems hard to make that sincere and not "lol"
<Saddam> The character certainly isn't crazy
<Saddam> She just comes across as genuinely sad
<Saddam> And like I said, it does work out in the end
You can see the quest for yourself here, beginning at about 12:24:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrUjz24mDeg
Draw your own conclusions, I guess.
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There's a "group dungeon" with a boss who you can't kill alone, because she has tons of HP and always does a full restoration once you get her HP down to about 20%, and she can't be knocked down. She hardly does any damage on me though, and I'm twice her level, but this is retarted. They are essentially depriving lone players of content by doing this shit.
inb4>playing mmorpg as single player.
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Fortunately, I swooped to beerdo's rescue, and we completed the dungeon and accompanying quest together. We are adventuring bros.
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that fucking lousy reward though...
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Sounds like you guys are having a lot of fun. I'm kinda jealous.
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It's fun enough when it's playable.
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It's easy to criticize the game and make fun of its many, many flaws, but at the same time, it's a huge amount of fun, and I can't stop playing it. In that respect, it's actually quite faithful to the series.
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There's a "group dungeon" with a boss who you can't kill alone, because she has tons of HP and always does a full restoration once you get her HP down to about 20%, and she can't be knocked down. She hardly does any damage on me though, and I'm twice her level, but this is retarted. They are essentially depriving lone players of content by doing this shit.
inb4>playing mmorpg as single player.
Does the AI simply stop employing that tactic in the presence of 2+ players?
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Yes. One player is not able to deal enough damage alone before her healing spell is recharged. But with two, there weren't enough time for her healing spell to recharge before she died.
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Of course not. It's just easier to kill with two people instead of one.
So it is a DPS issue. Fair enough.
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I reckon so.
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I found a letter addressed to someone named Parsifal. It made me smile.
Anyway, I am now in Hammerfell. Hopefully it'll be more interesting than High Rock. Although there is at least one cool thing about High Rock that bears mentioning here:
http://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/2cbwkc/eso_adds_a_new_metaphysical_tower_the_doomcrag/
That's right, Kirkbride's wonky theory about magical towers protecting Mundus received some in-game acknowledgement! And a couple of people there discuss the possibility that it was these towers that were responsible for transforming Cyrodiil. On that subject, you might notice that the guy saying "I have no idea what that means" is the same dull historian who wrote this (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Heartland_of_Cyrodiil), which is even controversial in-universe (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Subtropical_Cyrodiil:_A_Speculation). I don't know if ZeniMax is ever going to expand on this or anything, but even the implication that we shouldn't be taking the whole "derp transcription error" explanation at face value is a good thing.
Snupes, beerdo, and I were discussing this earlier on IRC. We're all confused and disturbed by it:
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/trial-vivec
Is this seriously canonical? I took a look on r/teslore, and everyone there seems to be cool with it. :-\
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Azura explodes.
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(http://i.imgur.com/deRTBCk.png)
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Vivec: "VIVEC WROTE THIS"
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What kind of a person thinks up of this stuff, let alone write it down in a public forum? I think Kirkbride has some serious issues.
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the middle panel is kinda hot, but why is Azura a Dunmer?
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What kind of a person thinks up of this stuff, let alone write it down in a public forum? I think Kirkbride has some serious issues.
Is shoving a penis-spear into someone's mouth and making them explode really that weird to you?
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<Saddam> beerdo: Is Azura getting raped really that hot?
<beerdo> lol
<Crudblud> Only if you're Kirkbride
<beerdo> But why is Azura a Dunmer?
<beerdo> Why would she take that form?
<Crudblud> To symbolise Vivec's rape of the Dunmer people by forcing them to roll dice every time they swing a sword
<Saddam> More importantly, why would she babble like a retard after being summoned?
<Crudblud> Because internet joke comic
<Saddam> No, that was in the story
<Crudblud> Because internet joke story
<Saddam> I notice that Kirkbride was roleplaying as both Vivec and Azura
<Saddam> That's a conflict of interest right there
<Crudblud> He is raping himself as a Dunmer
<Saddam> You always have to be careful when you roleplay multiple characters to avoid stuff like this
<Saddam> Anyway, like I said, the r/teslore community seems fine with the whole thing and defensive whenever lore noobs show up to ask them what the fuck they just read
<Crudblud> Also "Azura is come" isn't retard babble, it's just that kind of outmoded speech people like to use in fantasy writing because they are stupid
<Saddam> But seriously though, if you look at the link I posted, Kirkbride roleplays Azura as...I'm not even sure what he was doing
<beerdo> Maybe he was high
<Saddam> WHAT NO DEVIL PLEASE NO NO NO
<Saddam> GIFTS? WRAITHRING SHADOW MONSTER CROWN STAR GOOD QUESTION
<Blanko> Imagine how Morrowind would have turned out if there was no one holding Kirkbride back
<Crudblud> Vivec rapes the retard Nerevarine with his penis spear
<Crudblud> The end
<Parsifal> I need to get back to Morrowind one of these days
<Parsifal> The Mages' Guild needs me
<Crudblud> Was Kirkbride just around for Morrowind?
<Parsifal> I had to go collect 2000 gold from a guild member, and I got to keep half if I succeeded
<Parsifal> So I bribed them 200 gold, which earned me enough influence to collect 2000 gold in dues
<Parsifal> Morrowind's character system is best
<Saddam> Kirkbride was one of the main writers of Redguard
<Saddam> And of course, he had a limited role in Morrowind
<Saddam> Aside from that, he's just done some very minor work on Oblivion and Skyrim, writing a few books and such
<Crudblud> I wonder if Oblivion and Skyrim would have been more interesting if he'd had greater influence
<Saddam> Probably a bit too interesting
<beerdo> Vivec would have been in both
<Saddam> He would have shown up at the last minute and killed Alduin
<beerdo> by faceraping him with his penis spear
<beerdo> Same with Oblivion. Lol, fuck Martin, here's Vive raping Dagon with his penis spear
<Saddam> He has already demonstrated in the past that his milk finger can stifle Thu'um, so yes
<beerdo> Vivec, even
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<Blanko> Imagine how Morrowind would have turned out if there was no one holding Kirkbride back
I don't think anyone was, really. I think he was just less crazy back then.
<Saddam> And of course, he had a limited role in Morrowind
He created all of Morrowind's concept art, so he had an enormous impact on the atmosphere and aesthetic of the game. He was also one of the lead writers and quest designers, until he left.
Snupes, beerdo, and I were discussing this earlier on IRC. We're all confused and disturbed by it:
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/trial-vivec
Is this seriously canonical? I took a look on r/teslore, and everyone there seems to be cool with it. :-\
Most TES lore sluts understand that the division between canon and non-canon is much fuzzier for this series than for most others, due to the very mutable nature of the Aurbis (both space and time) and the potential for an infinite amount of parallel realities.
Some people might see this as kind of a cop-out, but that's the way it is. Nothing is true, everything is permitted, use the force Luke, there can only be one, e pluribus unum, and you're a wizard Harry.
<beerdo> But why is Azura a Dunmer?
<beerdo> Why would she take that form?
She (or "it", really) is most closely associated with the Dunmer (and the Chimer before them), so she sometimes decides to appear as one. Daedric Lords can appear however they want. They aren't bound to your cis hetero-normative, white, plural, highly triggering preconceptions of what a Daedric Lord "should be".
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He created all of Morrowind's concept art, so he had an enormous impact on the atmosphere and aesthetic of the game. He was also one of the lead writers and quest designers, until he left.
Yeah, that was a mistake. I had been referring to the fact that he left Bethesda during the game's development, but it seems like the final product was pretty much in line with what he and the other writers had envisioned.
Also, it's "be only one," not "only be one."
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THERE IS ONLY ROOM FOR ONE
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Get back to playing TESO already. There's lore and stuff.
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I'll re-subscribe eventually, but right now I'm too busy with Endless Legend and E:D.
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I'll re-subscribe eventually, but right now I'm too busy with Endless Legend and E:D.
For those of you who don't know:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erectile_dysfunction
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Hammerfell is a million times more interesting than High Rock. It's a shame that there's only two zones available in it, one of which is a tiny island. High Rock, meanwhile, has six zones.
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But Craglorn!
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So there's just Craglorn and Stros M'Kai?
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But Craglorn is in Hammerfell.
Also, I'm counting four regions in Hammerfell. Stros M'Kai, Alik'r Desert, Bangkorai, and Craglorn.
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Okay, so it looks like Bangkorai actually stretches over both regions, and Craglorn is indeed in Hammerfell. I guess I'm the lorenoob. In any case, Craglorn apparently only has group PvE activities, so I doubt I'll be spending much time there.
There's a quest where you have to get rid of a few local spies. The way it works is that every time you find one, you signal some crows that come down and literally peck them to death. It reminds me of James's thrilling tale of being attacked by a flock of conspiracy-trained birds.
More updates on the game, because I know you're all eager for them. I don't like the difficulty curve of the veteran levels. The enemies go up one level in each new zone, but it takes so much xp for you to level up that it's very difficult for you to keep up with how powerful the enemies are becoming, at least without spending lots of time on tedious grinding. Also, enemy archers are absurdly overpowered.
On a more positive note, I've begun playing the game in third-person, and I have found that my combat performance has improved greatly. I guess Rushy was right, this game is WoW, not TES, and needs to be played as such. I miss muh immersion, though. It feels a lot more realistic to be playing as a pair of disembodied floating arms.
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You could play in 1st person while exploring, then switch to 3rd in combat situations.
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The immersion point was a joke, hence my pejorative description of first person as being a pair of disembodied arms. I originally played the game in first-person simply because I was used to playing TES games in first-person, and the reason I played them in first-person is because, as we all know, TES games play like shit in third-person. Which doesn't really reflect well on Bethesda, when you think about how combat in third-person tends to be far more strategic, involving, challenging, and entertaining than in first-person games. And yet TES is so often praised for having an "iconic," "immersive," and "unique" first-person perspective. It kind of reminds me of how the series is also acclaimed for having such an active and attentive mod community, with very few journalists and reviewers connecting the dots and realizing that the mere existence of such a community is strong evidence that the developer is too lazy, cheap, and/or incompetent to properly finish the games themselves. Bethesda seems to have a real talent for making their flaws look like positive attributes.
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combat in third-person tends to be far more strategic, involving, challenging, and entertaining than in first-person games.
sitation kneaded
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It seems like the MMO craze is slowly winding down.
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It seems like the MMO craze is slowly winding down.
No. The market is just saturated. WoW still exists and has a gargantuan sub base. New games (i.e last few years) like LoL and Dota2 have also pulled in millions of people.
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combat in third-person tends to be far more strategic, involving, challenging, and entertaining than in first-person games.
sitation kneaded
I cite Blanko as my source. He knows that third-person combat is objectively superior to first-person.
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>cites me on something I've never said
epic shitter
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I woul have posted the log if it hadn already disappeared from my chat history.
durnk sadaam
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I don't think he ever said that third-person is better than first-person. He was just questioning my opinion that first-person is better than third-person.
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I think Saddam was referring to this exchange:
[18:30:52] <Saddam> Blanko: Does a game that's designed to be played in third-person lend itself to better combat than if it had been first person?
[18:32:03] <Blanko> Uh...
[18:32:06] <Blanko> Of course?
[18:32:14] <Saddam> I see
[18:32:15] <Blanko> Are you seriously asking
[18:32:24] <Saddam> Some people might disagree
In which I only suggest that third-person combat is better if it is designed with third-person in mind.
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Why do you think third person is objectively better?
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It seems like the MMO craze is slowly winding down.
No. The market is just saturated. WoW still exists and has a gargantuan sub base. New games (i.e last few years) like LoL and Dota2 have also pulled in millions of people.
League of Legends isn't even remotely in the same genre. I was referring to the type of MMO that WoW is, not just any type of game that has online play. Besides, WoW's subscription numbers have been slowly decreasing.
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Then maybe you should have said MMORPG.
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Oh man you got me.
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LoL is an MMO.
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TFES is an MMO.
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TFES is an MMO.
One of the grindiest MMOs in existence.
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LoL is an MMO.
No it isn't. Just because a lot of people play it, it doesn't mean it's an MMO.
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No, but it is an MMO.
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No, it isn't. "Massively multiplayer" refers to the ability to support thousands of players simultaneously in one world. LoL is just an arena combat game.
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TFESO
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I've been grinding posts in TFES since 2007 and still have nothing to show for it. They need to add some microtransaction options .
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No, it isn't. "Massively multiplayer" refers to the ability to support thousands of players simultaneously in one world. LoL is just an arena combat game.
Ah, good old semantics. I don't think 'MMO' requires everyone to be on the same world, if it did then WoW wouldn't be an MMO as 90% of the game is instanced.
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No, it isn't. "Massively multiplayer" refers to the ability to support thousands of players simultaneously in one world. LoL is just an arena combat game.
Ah, good old semantics. I don't think 'MMO' requires everyone to be on the same world, if it did then WoW wouldn't be an MMO as 90% of the game is instanced.
By "world", I didn't mean a single instance. A world can comprise many instances, as long as they're connected in some way. If we use your definition, all popular arena combat games would be considered MMOs, which isn't the case.
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No, it isn't. "Massively multiplayer" refers to the ability to support thousands of players simultaneously in one world. LoL is just an arena combat game.
Ah, good old semantics. I don't think 'MMO' requires everyone to be on the same world, if it did then WoW wouldn't be an MMO as 90% of the game is instanced.
It kind of does. MMO refers to a large game world with many people playing at once. Games like LoL, Phantasy Star, Monster Hunter, etc are not MMOs. You wouldn't consider Team Fortress an MMO, would you?
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No, it isn't. "Massively multiplayer" refers to the ability to support thousands of players simultaneously in one world. LoL is just an arena combat game.
Ah, good old semantics. I don't think 'MMO' requires everyone to be on the same world, if it did then WoW wouldn't be an MMO as 90% of the game is instanced.
It kind of does. MMO refers to a large game world with many people playing at once. Games like LoL, Phantasy Star, Monster Hunter, etc ate not MMOs. You wouldn't consider Team Fortress an MMO, would you?
By my definition, it would be an MMO, although people don't refer to it as one because it's more easily placed under the FPS banner.
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By my definition, it would be an MMO, although people don't refer to it as one because it's more easily placed under the FPS banner.
By your definition, Call of Duty is an MMO.
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According to my definition Team Fortress is an action based first person RPG with hidden stat modifiers and hats.
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Well, I've seen video game journalists lump MOBAs in with other MMO's. There's no arguing with that.
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And we all know that video game journalists really know what they're talking about.
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Queen Ayrenn is more pleasant than I thought she'd be. I almost expected her to be kind of a bitch.
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Queen Ayrenn is more pleasant than I thought she'd be. I almost expected her to be kind of a bitch.
Queen Ayrenn was and is named properly KINMUNE.
Anyway, I've completed the main questline of the Daggerfall Covenant. Overall, it was decent. The biggest problem with it, like I've said, is that High Rock is not an interesting setting and the Bretons are not an interesting people. There were good quests and good lore there, sure, but very little of that came from the setting itself. It was mostly stuff about Daedra and Ayleids and whatnot, which I guess was probably the right call, given what they had to work with. The only real exception to the blandness of High Rock are the witches' covens, which feature prominently in a couple of zones. They're militant defenders of nature and the environment, and one coven, the Glenmoril Wyrd, takes their zeal so far that they actually worship Hircine. You might remember them from a few previous TES games. They're cool, but precious little else from High Rock or the Bretons is.
Hammerfell, on the other hand, is great. The Redguard culture is an odd blend of Afro-Caribbean and Arabic elements, their society and religion are unique and interesting, and the desert is a lot of fun to explore. Also, there are these creatures called "dunerippers," which has to be the most awesome name for anything in the history of ever. Bonus points for that.
We don't see much of the Orcs or their society, which is a real shame. I want to see this Orsinium they're always talking about. I want to know more about this Mauloch they worship and see what his connection to Malacath is. I want to know more about them, period. But no, we just get to see this one tiny island they run, and not much else. Lame.
In summary, it's good, but the Ebonheart Pact did a much better job of keeping things consistently interesting. You'd be better off starting with that alliance. inb4 ">implying..."
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Isn't Orsinium coming in a future update?
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Has saddam become the emperor yet?
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When does the patch that actually makes this game fun come out?
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Isn't Orsinium coming in a future update?
Yes, it will be in Wrothgar, which will be a solo PvE zone. I'll be more likely to play that than group PvE stuff like Craglorn.
Has saddam become the emperor yet?
It will take significant grinding before that becomes even a remote possibility.
When does the patch that actually makes this game fun come out?
Rushy does Rushy better than you. Find a new shtick.
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Aweee. Is someone upset because I don't like their shitty grindfest?
I know another game you might like: Wizards 101.
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Aweee
You keep saying this. Are you trying to say "Aw"? If so, it's really weird spelling.
I know another game you might like: Wizards 101.
(http://i.imgur.com/QBcQoyL.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/vTsA8Py.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/xTVIDoC.jpg)
This looks like the greatest game in the world.
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It's actually quite good.
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Aweee
You keep saying this. Are you trying to say "Aw"? If so, it's really weird spelling.
He is clearly imitating Mario enjoying going down a slide.
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Altmeri cities are now all Rivendell.
Literally. They're all a bit too whimsical. I like the designs of the Khajiit society, though.
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But they're actually supposed to be even more whimsical.
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Well, I meant whimsical in the sense that it comes across as overly quaint, playful, and basically nonthreatening. I'd hoped for unusual designs, sure, but not ones that kind of undercut the fact that the Altmer are a serious people with serious goals. I keep almost expecting a chorus of elves to suddenly burst into song in Auridon. It doesn't feel right.
The architecture of the High Elves is fanciful, certainly, but it’s also practical, constructed of real-world materials. Architects can’t make buildings out of poetry!
Totally weak.
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They're fucking High Elves, what the hell are you expecting from them?
Nothing but the very best, elegant and splendorous is good enough for the magnificent Altmer!
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They're fucking High Elves, what the hell are you expecting from them?
Nothing but the very best, elegant and splendorous is good enough for the magnificent Altmer!
That's the problem. Altmeri architecture in ESO is pretty bland, and not nearly as elegant and splendorous as it's described in the lore lore lore. The PGE describes their buildings as elaborate crystalline structures, resembling insect wings and solidified sunlight.
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Solidified sunlight.
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Solidified sunlight.
Correct.
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http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pocket_Guide_to_the_Empire,_1st_Edition/Aldmeri_Dominion
Alinor
A forbidden city for nearly fifty years, Alinor is both capital of the Summerset Isles and the heart of the Aldmeri Dominion. Human traders were only allowed at its ports, and they described the city as "made from glass or insect wings." Less fantastic accounts come from the Imperial emissaries of the Reman Dynasty, which describe the city as straight and glimmering, "a hypnotic swirl of ramparts and impossibly high towers, designed to catch the light of the sun and break it to its component colors, which lies draped across its stones until you are thankful for nightfall."
It's not really that clear-cut. In any case, Alinor isn't in TESO.
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I would have played this game if Kirkbride was the lead designer.
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http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pocket_Guide_to_the_Empire,_1st_Edition/Aldmeri_Dominion
Alinor
A forbidden city for nearly fifty years, Alinor is both capital of the Summerset Isles and the heart of the Aldmeri Dominion. Human traders were only allowed at its ports, and they described the city as "made from glass or insect wings." Less fantastic accounts come from the Imperial emissaries of the Reman Dynasty, which describe the city as straight and glimmering, "a hypnotic swirl of ramparts and impossibly high towers, designed to catch the light of the sun and break it to its component colors, which lies draped across its stones until you are thankful for nightfall."
It's not really that clear-cut. In any case, Alinor isn't in TESO.
Disregardingly, I think we can agree that the Altmeri architecture is probably the most disappointing in the game. I like everything else. Although I am annoyed that Dunmeri buildings are all built in the Indoril style, even in areas where that doesn't make any sense. Kirkbride would be disappointed.
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Kirkbride said that he too was disappointed by the Altmeri architecture. I wish that he would just write a big long post in which he details everything that he likes and dislikes about the game; it would be so much easier for the rest of us. That being said, I'm not sure if he's actually played the game or if he's just reacting to stuff he's heard about it.
As for the Dunmeri architecture thing, I myst do lore research/play moar to see if I can find anything to argue with you about. By the way, how far did you get in the game? Did you clear Stonefalls and Deshaan?
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Cats seems to be the only animals in the game that you can't kill. I approve.
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When are they going to release a patch for TESO that makes the game fun?
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They will never cater to your specific opinion on what fun is. So never.
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I require at least .07ans of fun before I will play this game.
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What's your definition of fun?
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.07ans
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elaborate
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elaborate
.03ans less than .1ans.
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elaborate
Fun is on a scale of 0-1 Andrews (An). 1 Andrew is the maximal amount of fun (only Andrew has this) and everything else is somewhere between zero and Andrew.
As you can clearly see: Fun is a measurable concept measured in Andrews. I require .07ans to start having 'fun', but it may be different for you.
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What would the game require in order for it to have .07ans of fun for you?
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What would the game require in order for it to have .07ans of fun for you?
elaborate
.03ans less than .1ans.
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enough
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I am having 1.34x10-34 ans of fun reading this.
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What would the game require in order for it to have .07ans of fun for you?
More facial options for the chars, mostly.
But also flying mounts, blood elves, and trolls.
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There are no blood elves in TES lore, deal with it. But there are trolls. I've heard about no plans on new PC facial options, but they will implement a more realistic facial animation engine at some point.
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Cats seems to be the only animals in the game that you can't kill. I approve.
There are a fair number of animals you can't kill. None of the pets, which of course includes cats, but also dogs and monkeys. You also can't kill the horses you see in stables, and I believe, although I'm not positive, that you can't kill the livestock at farms. Oh, and you can't kill the senche-tigers, at least not the friendly ones that are kept as pets by NPCs. But are these senche-tigers really animals, or are they Khajiit? In the words of the wise wizard who's in charge of the lore for the game:
Q: The Senche-Tigers. These aren't the true khajiit Senche are they? They're no where near big enough. I always envisioned them with bodies like Sabrecats but as tall as an Altmer at the shoulder.
A: The in-game answer is that the differences between Senche, Senche-raht, and senche-tigers are confusing and hard to understand for everyone but Khajiit. Furthermore, Khajiit seem to sense an intelligence in senche-tigers that other races do not, but since senche-tigers don’t speak, their intelligence is hard to assess. We WILL be adding senche-tiger mounts sometime soon, but they’ll be just slightly larger than their wild counterparts, NOT the gigantic felines described in some of the lore.
The out-of-game answer to the question of Khajiiti subspecies is that depicting wide variation among the cat-folk runs smack up against an Elder Scrolls standard, which is the expectation that characters of any race can use all available arms and armor. We can deviate only so far from the humanoid standard before it becomes a problem when donning equipment.
Well, that totally clears everything up.
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"If we get too creative it would be hard work and we don't want that." - Zenimax Lore Guy
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Like Crudblud said, that's just extra lazy. You're just going to accept that, Saddam? "We can't be bothered to make more than one armor model!"
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Yeah but they have a point. Who the hell wants to make another model for 1 minor race?
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I'm actually a bit confused as to why he even added that second paragraph. He was being asked about the lore relating to the tigers, not if people could play as them.
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He accidentally a expansion.
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But I killed a monkey in the forest last night.
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Kirkbride said that he too was disappointed by the Altmeri architecture. I wish that he would just write a big long post in which he details everything that he likes and dislikes about the game; it would be so much easier for the rest of us. That being said, I'm not sure if he's actually played the game or if he's just reacting to stuff he's heard about it.
As for the Dunmer architecture thing, I myst do lore research/play moar to see if I can find anything to argue with you about. By the way, how far did you get in the game? Did you clear Stonefalls and Deshaan?
I finished a lot of the content in Stonefalls and then explored Deshaan a little bit before my sub expired. I also snuck around Skyrim a little bit.
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But I killed a monkey in the forest last night.
Not a pet monkey.
On the subject of Dunmeri buildings, I have confirmed that the Indoril design does indeed appear to be the only style of Dunmer architecture that appears in the game. I suppose that the absence of Redoran or Telvanni settlements is justifiable in that their territories aren't playable areas, but Hlaalu is certainly present, and the lack of their architecture in Narsis and the surrounding area is pretty disappointing. Also, there's Dres, but I don't know - do they have some kind of unique building style? At the very least, though, the Hlaalu part is strange, and I don't know why they did it. It had seemed like they had a pretty decent handle on the houses, too. I especially enjoyed them throwing in little touches, like Telvanni refusing to have anything to do with the Pact, and some members of Dres secretly continuing to enslave Argonians. Entirely in-character for both of them.
Time to reply to another old post:
So this has me mildly interested, mostly in how each race's armour will be different and influenced by their culture and all. I still highly doubt I'll play it unless someone inexplicably buys me a subscription, but it's kinda a neat look at the game for those who haven't tried it.
That is indeed a cool feature of the game. In fact, you can take a look at them here:
http://eso-fashion.com/blacksmithing-by-style/ (heavy armor)
http://eso-fashion.com/clothing-by-style/ (light and medium armor)
lore lore lore
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Time to reply to another old post:
So this has me mildly interested, mostly in how each race's armour will be different and influenced by their culture and all. I still highly doubt I'll play it unless someone inexplicably buys me a subscription, but it's kinda a neat look at the game for those who haven't tried it.
That is indeed a cool feature of the game. In fact, you can take a look at them here:
http://eso-fashion.com/blacksmithing-by-style/ (heavy armor)
http://eso-fashion.com/clothing-by-style/ (light and medium armor)
lore lore lore
That is a really cool feature. I don't think I've seen any other MMOS do something like this.
I don't understand why it says "Altmer" but shows Khajits and Dunmers wearing it, though.
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That is indeed a cool feature.
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I don't understand why it says "Altmer" but shows Khajits and Dunmers wearing it, though.
Well, there's nothing stopping a Khajiit or Dunmer from wearing them.
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I don't understand why it says "Altmer" but shows Khajits and Dunmers wearing it, though.
Well, there's nothing stopping Khajiit or Dunmer from wearing them.
I see. I misunderstood then. I thought that if you had "Steel armor" then it would look different depending on which race was wearing it.
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Is that your professional opinion?
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Yes, that is my professional opinion as a professional lorefag. Armor magically changing based on who happens to be wearing it is dum.
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So how does it work then? Does it depend on where you craft it, who/where you buy it from, or the items used to craft it?
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It depends on the material. Iron/steel/whatever plus a race specific piece of material.
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Yes, that is my professional opinion as a professional lorefag. Armor magically changing based on who happens to be wearing it is dum.
I don't know, that doesn't seem any more stupid than penis spears.
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Yes, that is my professional opinion as a professional lorefag. Armor magically changing based on who happens to be wearing it is dum.
I don't know, that doesn't seem any more stupid than penis spears.
Vivec is the most fully-realized character in all of fiction. You just don't appreciate the brilliance and imagery
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It depends on the material. Iron/steel/whatever plus a race specific piece of material.
Or if you buy it, it's based on where you buy it. Dunmer-style armor is sold in Morrowind, Nord-style in Skyrim, etc.
I don't know, that doesn't seem any more stupid than penis spears.
I highly doubt that Muatra was anything other than Vivec's spear, at least as far as the canon of the video game series goes. I agree with you, though.
Vivec is the most fully-realized character in all of fiction. You just don't appreciate the brilliance and imagery
Indeed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70w-6RZNwA4
No responses? Unacceptable! spam spam spam
Just kidding. But here's an interesting interview with Paul Sage:
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/File:The_Elder_Scrolls_Online_-_World_%26_Lore
He's asked about the architectural styles of Morrowind, and while his point about limited resources is understandable, the in-game explanation he offers of "well they built differently in the past" is pretty half-assed. If it had been me, I'd have said something about how House Hlaalu wasn't a particularly powerful or important house in the time period of TESO, and it was only during the time of the Third Empire, when their influence grew rapidly, that they felt they had the proper justification and financial ability to redesign their cities with their own unique style. See? The same basic information is conveyed, but at least I sound like I might actually give a shit. Also, he shoots down the theory of Ayrenn being Kinmune.
On a more positive note, Valenwood kicks all kinds of ass, at least so far. Elden Root in particular has a fantastic design, being based in and around the roots of a gigantic tree. It actually reminds me quite a bit of Ald'ruhn.
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It's remarkable how little their Creative Director seems to know about the series, but also not unexpected.
Also, "Mike the Liar"
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Snupes, beerdo, and I were discussing this earlier on IRC. We're all confused and disturbed by it:
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/trial-vivec
Is this seriously canonical? I took a look on r/teslore, and everyone there seems to be cool with it. :-\
Azura: "GIFTS? WRAITHRING SHADOW MONSTER CROWN STAR GOOD QUESTION"
Azura: "GAHAAAAA NO NO NO PLEASE NO WHATTTTTTttT NO DEVIL PLEASE NO I CANNOT"
Why does Azura read like tumblr posts?
Also:
Almalexia: knock knock
Sotha Sil: who's there?
Almalexia: Ayem.
Sotha Sil: I am what?
Almalexia: You're dead.
Sotha Sil: Alright, no need to get up Seht!
stab
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Because Kirkbride wanted to portray her as a retard when faced with the almighty Vivec Sue. Roleplaying both of them was a terrible conflict of interest. And that dopey story even further diminishes Kirkbride's claim that Vivec is the most fully-realized character in video games or whatever, because it's entirely out-of-character. Vivec had spent thousands of years as a god, and he was sick of it by the end of Morrowind's events. He wouldn't have done all that nonsense about eating Azura and becoming a "real" god even if he were capable of it.
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Because Kirkbride wanted to portray her as a retard when faced with the almighty Vivec Sue. Roleplaying both of them was a terrible conflict of interest. And that dopey story even further diminishes Kirkbride's claim that Vivec is the most fully-realized character in video games or whatever, because it's entirely out-of-character. Vivec had spent thousands of years as a god, and he was sick of it by the end of Morrowind's events. He wouldn't have done all that nonsense about eating Azura and becoming a "real" god even if he were capable of it.
Well, if anybody is qualified to make judgements regarding what Vivec would and wouldn't do, it's definitely you.
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Are personal qualifications necessary to interpret the character and his motivations? Anyone can do it. If you have an alternate interpretation that reveals the underlying ambition and vindictiveness behind the supposed regret and weariness he expresses, I'd like to hear it.
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Kirkbride's claim that Vivec is the most fully-realized character in video games
Did he really make this ridiculous statement or anything similar to it?
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He did indeed:
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archives-michael-kirkbride
I can safely say that Vivec is the most realized character in videogame fiction. Period.
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I can safely say that Vivec is the most realized character in videogame fiction. Period.
Level of even: can't.
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That begs the question: who is the most realized character in videogame fiction? Is there even such a thing?
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That begs the question
No no no! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question)
/smug pedantry
On topic, I don't know. But Kirkbride is patting himself on the back a bit too much in that passage. The whole thing, not just the line about Vivec.
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I'm pretty sure the correct answer is Duke Nukem.
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That begs the question
No no no! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question)
/smug pedantry
On topic, I don't know. But Kirkbride is patting himself on the back a bit too much in that passage. The whole thing, not just the line about Vivec.
I can also say that Morrowind is the finest novel written in videogame fiction. A 40 hour narrative whose main character is only ever referenced is almost Nabokovian in aspiration, and prophecies whose truth is determined only by the player is akin to Borges if he only had been born with a USB port in the back of his beloved neck.
There is a fine line between celebrated tradition tuned to masterstrokes by its crafters and cliche'd demons underneath volcanos. Morrowind is the former, Selbeth, and nowhere near the latter.
God, I really don't like him
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The one video game that I think did the best job of exploring and subverting the common tropes of Chosen One myths and prophecied heroes is actually Dark Souls. No joke. As for the "Nabokovian" element of only ever referencing the main character, well, you could probably say the same thing about most murder mysteries.
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The one video game that I think did the best job of exploring and subverting the common tropes of Chosen One myths and prophecied heroes is actually Dark Souls. No joke. As for the "Nabokovian" element of only ever referencing the main character, well, you could probably say the same thing about most murder mysteries.
There is deleted content where the guy who saves you and then falls through the roof and dies in the undead crypt wants to be the chosen undead real bad cuz fate and shit. So he goes along in the world making every choice you don't and fights you at the end because you either chose to light the flame and are helping false Gods, or if you let it burn out and are an evil dark lord to him.
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The one video game that I think did the best job of exploring and subverting the common tropes of Chosen One myths and prophecied heroes is actually Dark Souls. No joke. As for the "Nabokovian" element of only ever referencing the main character, well, you could probably say the same thing about most murder mysteries.
Dark Souls is the most realized videogame character of all time?
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Dark Souls is the most realized videogame character of all time?
It's official.
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God, I really don't like him
What are you honestly expecting god to do about your dislike of Kirkbride?
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I can also say that Morrowind is the finest novel written in videogame fiction. A 40 hour narrative whose main character is only ever referenced is almost Nabokovian in aspiration, and prophecies whose truth is determined only by the player is akin to Borges if he only had been born with a USB port in the back of his beloved neck.
There is a fine line between celebrated tradition tuned to masterstrokes by its crafters and cliche'd demons underneath volcanos. Morrowind is the former, Selbeth, and nowhere near the latter.
Level of even: can't.
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God, I really don't like him
What are you honestly expecting god to do about your dislike of Kirkbride?
Smite him
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Smite him
I don't think being an insane but stereotypical fiction writer is grounds for smiting. Unless you have unlimited smites available, I suggest using such a powerful ability on someone more deserving, like this ebola guy I keep hearing about.
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More witty IRC pasta:
<Saddam> One of the lines they're going to give guards for the justice system in TESO is "Stop right there, criminal scum!"
<Saddam> That's great
<Saddam> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAFdcsmJlKE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAFdcsmJlKE)
<beerdo> Saddam: Can you prove this?
<Saddam> And if you steal something or kill anyone, open-world PvP happens
<Saddam> That's just great
<Saddam> Let other players interfere in your obstensibly PvE experience
<Saddam> Because why not
<Blanko> That does sound like an improvement
<Saddam> Also, it doesn't look like there's any jail
<Saddam> It's pay your fine or die
<Blanko> You can kill NPCs?
<Saddam> Yes
<Blanko> Does that apply to your own faction's NPCs as well?
<Saddam> Only your faction's NPCs, probably
<Blanko> wat
<Blanko> How does that make any sense
<Saddam> Well, once you've beaten the main story, you can visit the other factions' territories, so I assume you can attack them as well once you're there
<Saddam> But you can't do, like, invasions or whatever that you could in WoW
<Blanko> Oh...
<Blanko> I forgot you can't visit other factions at all
<Blanko> TESO sounds so fucking awful
<Saddam> I don't know, I'd hate to be getting ganked by invaders while I'm trying to do PvE stuff
<Crudblud> TESO sounds like the bestest most intelligently designed game ever
<Blanko> Yeah, god forbid you have to be involved with other players in an MMO
<Saddam> No other people in TES allowed!
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<Blanko> Saddam: Fuck off
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I believe, although I'm not positive, that you can't kill the livestock at farms.
This turned out to be wrong. You can indeed kill farm animals, like cows, pigs, and guar. I don't know why you'd want to, though. It seems kind of mean to kill such harmless animals. Still, at least the pets can't be harmed. And sometimes they have some funny names. I already mentioned that there's a dog in Skyrim called Alduin, and there's a cat in High Rock named Azura. Cute.
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I already mentioned that there's a dog in Skyrim called Alduin, and there's a cat in High Rock named Azura. Cute.
It would be even better if you could click on the cat repeatedly and it explodes.
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I already mentioned that there's a dog in Skyrim called Alduin, and there's a cat in High Rock named Azura. Cute.
It would be even better if you could click on the cat repeatedly and it explodes.
Or use them as silencers for rifles like in Postal 2.
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What rifles?
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e
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Rifles will be introduced with the Return of the Dwarves expansion pack.
So far, the Aldmeri Dominion is my favorite of the three alliances. Unique, interesting cultures and odd quests that dive into the wonky world of the arcane. I can safely say that the writing for this game is the most adventurous for the series since Morrowind.
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Hold on while I pick my jaw up from the floor. Are you saying that TESO has writing comparable to Morrowind?
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At certain times, yes. Just without the creepy sexual elements.
Actually, I may need to reconsider the whole "since" thing. I visited Craglorn briefly, just to see what I had ahead of me, and the overarching storyline is as follows: The constellations have detached themselves from the sky, taken the form of giant spirit monsters, and are now rampaging throughout the land, putting all of Nirn at risk. Yes, it is literally the constellations that are doing this. Top that, Kirkbride.
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2014/11/05/presenting-the-six-month-loyalty-reward
Vanity pets! Greatest game ever.
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Coming soon: Alduin pet for only $19.95!
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Get the Vivec's Disembodied Penis mount for only $99.99
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Coming soon: Alduin pet for only $19.95!
There are no dragons in TESO. I suppose ZeniMax could have rammed one or two in if they really wanted to, maybe as a dungeon boss or something. After all, there were a handful of dragons still alive by the Second Era. Thankfully, they resisted that temptation.
Get the Vivec's Disembodied Penis mount for only $99.99
Only Vivec would be allowed to ride that.
Hey, it's a graphically-updated version of the Great Deku Tree!
(http://i62.tinypic.com/5agis7.jpg)
Actually, this is the judgment chamber of a Bosmer village, which features in a quest where you have to figure out which one of the locals violated the Green Pact by picking a rare flower, consequently enraging the forest and putting the village in danger. Once you figure out who the culprit is, you bring them to the judgment chamber, and then the tree kills them. Yeah, just like that. It's kind of disturbing to witness. Still, I'm glad that the game isn't shying away from showing the darker, more unique aspects of Bosmer lore, including how very seriously they take the Green Pact.
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Yet, picking alchemical ingredients and crafting wooden staffs and shields in Valenwood while playing as a Bosmer is still somehow okay?
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Yet, picking alchemical ingredients and crafting wooden staffs and shields in Valenwood while playing as a Bosmer is still somehow okay?
rare flower
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Killing any plant is a violation of the Green Pact.
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Yet, picking alchemical ingredients and crafting wooden staffs and shields in Valenwood while playing as a Bosmer is still somehow okay?
Yes. I think they say at one point that agents of the Aldmeri Dominion are granted a special exemption to the Green Pact, and you have to be one by the time you reach Valenwood. Or it might just be that the Vestige is such a badass that even Y'ffre knows better than to fuck with him.
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Killing any plant is a violation of the Green Pact.
that is a dumb pact
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Actually, that only applies to plants in Valenwood. They can still import wood and things like that from other provinces. But yes, the Bosmer are berry dumb.
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This is a bad game.
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This is a bad game.
Yes, but it's canonical, so I'm going to finish my playthrough. Real canonical, too, not lol-C0DA-everything-is-permitted canonical.
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This is a bad game.
It's not bad, and it's not good. It's merely playable.
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Real canonical, too, not lol-C0DA-everything-is-permitted canonical.
There's no difference.
It's not bad, and it's not good. It's merely playable.
It is bad. It baffles me that this game was ever even made. Nobody asked for this game.
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I'm glad I played a free beta, otherwise I may have wasted $60 on this mess.
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$60 entry fee, $15 monthly fee, and micro-transactions. That is just ridiculous for yet another stale themepark MMORPG (that nobody wanted) in 2014.
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Good thing we have huge, expansive online games that are full of original and varied content such as Elite: Dangerous. Coming to a store near you December 16, 2014. I can't wait for the reviews.
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(that nobody wanted)
Strange that a lot of people are still playing it then.
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Real canonical, too, not lol-C0DA-everything-is-permitted canonical.
There's no difference.
Yes, there is. There is an established fictional universe that Bethesda recognizes and is represented in the games that they have made and/or will make in the future. The fanfictions that people write on the Internet are not part of this universe.
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Real canonical, too, not lol-C0DA-everything-is-permitted canonical.
There's no difference.
Yes, there is. There is an established fictional universe that Bethesda recognizes and is represented in the games that they have made and/or will make in the future. The fanfictions that people write on the Internet are not part of this universe.
No. You don't know what you're talking about.
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Saddam is the rarest and worst gamer of all, he who plays games solely for the lore/story regardless of how good or bad the gameplay actually is.
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No. You don't know what you're talking about.
You know I'm right. Now re-subscribe and share in the lore. lore lore lore
Saddam is the rarest and worst gamer of all, he who plays games solely for the lore/story regardless of how good or bad the gameplay actually is.
If that were true, I'd already have beaten Morrowind, along with Arena and Daggerfall.
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The only other sensible conclusion is that you like bad games and dislike good games.
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If that were true, I'd already have beaten Morrowind, along with Arena and Daggerfall.
Well now I'm just confused. Why are you still playing ESO?
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If that were true, I'd already have beaten Morrowind, along with Arena and Daggerfall.
Well now I'm just confused. Why are you still playing ESO?
I just mean that "regardless of how good or bad the gameplay actually is" isn't quite accurate. If the gameplay was awful enough, then I wouldn't be playing it, not even for the lore. The only game that I've played through just for the lore/story while also recognizing that the gameplay itself was pretty bad was Redguard. Oh, and also The Stanley Parable. :P
I have a great idea. Let's talk about Morrowind again!
It's interesting that you feel spoiled by Skyrim, since it has fewer locations and less variety among them. Concerning dungeons: Skyrim has 176, which include Daedric shrines, caves, Dwemer ruins, mines, forts, and ruins. Morrowind has 224, and they include caves, ancestral tombs, daedric shrines and ruins, Dunmer strongholds, Dwemer ruins, grottos, mines, and Velothi towers.
This is incredibly misleading, bro. Mainly because you're overgeneralizing the hell out of the Skyrim dungeons. Like, Morrowind has caves and grottos, but Skyrim just has caves? Even though Skyrim's caves vary wildly in their general look and feel, depending on their location and occupants? Yeah, that's a totally-fair comparison. ::) I know that Morrowind does officially distinguish between the two, while Skyrim doesn't, but if we're going to go down that road, then Skyrim distinguishes between caves and passes, regular ruins and Nordic ruins, and Imperial towers, Nordic towers, and forts. And the game also counts camps, ships/shipwrecks, and shacks as dungeons, although the last one is a bit of a stretch.
And then if we include the overworld dungeons - which might seem like a bit of an oxymoron, but Skyrim counted them as such - there's even more variety. There are clearings, groves, dragon lairs, and giant camps, far more than what Boringwang offers.
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I have a great idea. Let's talk about Morrowind again!
It's interesting that you feel spoiled by Skyrim, since it has fewer locations and less variety among them. Concerning dungeons: Skyrim has 176, which include Daedric shrines, caves, Dwemer ruins, mines, forts, and ruins. Morrowind has 224, and they include caves, ancestral tombs, daedric shrines and ruins, Dunmer strongholds, Dwemer ruins, grottos, mines, and Velothi towers.
This is incredibly misleading, bro. Mainly because you're overgeneralizing the hell out of the Skyrim dungeons. Like, Morrowind has caves and grottos, but Skyrim just has caves? Even though Skyrim's caves vary wildly in their general look and feel, depending on their location and occupants? Yeah, that's a totally-fair comparison. ::) I know that Morrowind does officially distinguish between the two, while Skyrim doesn't, but if we're going to go down that road, then Skyrim distinguishes between caves and passes, regular ruins and Nordic ruins, and Imperial towers, Nordic towers, and forts. And the game also counts camps, ships/shipwrecks, and shacks as dungeons, although the last one is a bit of a stretch.
You haven't provided any evidence contrary to the claim that Morrowind's locations are both more numerous and more varied than Skyrim's. I will admit that Skyrim's caves have more aesthetic variety.
And then if we include the overworld dungeons - which might seem like a bit of an oxymoron, but Skyrim counted them as such - there's even more variety. There are clearings, groves, dragon lairs, and giant camps, far more than what Boringwang offers.
I see that Skyrim has successfully tricked you into thinking that its overworld is a varied and interesting place through the use of extremely excessive map markers. Wow, there are clearings and groves? I'm about to blow up your mind: Morrowind also had clearings and groves. However, it's such a humble game that it doesn't even mark basic terrain features on the map to make the world appear more cluttered. As for dragon lairs and giant camps: dragon lairs are just open patches of ground with a word wall sitting atop them. As well as a dragon. Giant camps are just bonfires with giants and mammoths around them. These things are cool and I'm glad they're there, but they're nothing that wasn't matched or exceeded by Morrowind's world design, let alone "far more than". Vvardenfell is littered with shipwrecks, major and minor camps, abandoned dwellings, inhabited dwellings, plantations, and various other kinds of landmarks, so many of which aren't indicated on the map at all.
Also, where is the rest of my post? I talked about more than just dungeons.
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You haven't provided any evidence contrary to the claim that Morrowind's locations are both more numerous and more varied than Skyrim's. I will admit that Skyrim's caves have more aesthetic variety.
Not more numerous, but more varied, certainly. Morrowind has caves, mines, Dwemer ruins, ships, daedric shrines, daedric ruins, grottos, ancestral tombs, Dunmer strongholds, and Velothi towers. Skyrim has caves, mines, Dwemer ruins, ships, daedric shrines, passes, ruins, Nordic ruins, camps, Imperial towers, Nordic towers, and forts. Twelve to ten, so there.
I see that Skyrim has successfully tricked you into thinking that its overworld is a varied and interesting place through the use of extremely excessive map markers. Wow, there are clearings and groves? I'm about to blow up your mind: Morrowind also had clearings and groves. However, it's such a humble game that it doesn't even mark basic terrain features on the map to make the world appear more cluttered. As for dragon lairs and giant camps: dragon lairs are just open patches of ground with a word wall sitting atop them. As well as a dragon. Giant camps are just bonfires with giants and mammoths around them. These things are cool and I'm glad they're there, but they're nothing that wasn't matched or exceeded by Morrowind's world design, let alone "far more than". Vvardenfell is littered with shipwrecks, major and minor camps, abandoned dwellings, inhabited dwellings, plantations, and various other kinds of landmarks, so many of which aren't indicated on the map at all.
Yeah, well, my dad could beat up your dad.
Also, where is the rest of my post? I talked about more than just dungeons.
Prove it.
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Shit about Skyward sword()LOL VONGEO IS NOT TALKING ABOUT THINGS HE SAID HE WAS TALKING ABOUT() is all the quests are all the god damn same. OH go into this fucking cave fucktard. No tricking people into doing shit, no ogres just collecting old pieces of shit for pieces of shit who are old.
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(https://i.imgur.com/3sfQC.jpg)
Indeed.
And on the notion of the other points PP2 made:
Skyrim has 16 settlements, which range from major cities to minor cities to towns. The only variation in architecture is between the five major cities. Morrowind has 27 settlements, including Ashlander tribes, imperial towns, Dunmeri towns (Hlaalu, Redoran, or Telvanni), plantations, and the four major cities.
I could go on. Factions, weapons and armor, spell effects and enchantments, clothing, types of creatures, skills. There's more of pretty much everything in Morrowind. The claim that "there really is not all that much" compared to games nowadays is demonstrably false. I know this is definitely cheating, but include Tamriel Rebuilt in those numbers and you can quintuple everything. We may never see a mod of the same scale created for any other ES game.
Each interesting artifact in Skyrim is almost invariably both levelled and/or attached to a quest. In Morrowind, there are dozens of artifacts that you'll only find if you happen to stumble upon them, and they aren't scaled to your level.
Yes, this is all true, except for maybe the one about there being more types of creatures in Morrowind. I believe they're about equal in that regard, going by what I've read online.
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One Skyrim settlement is worth 10 Morrowind settlements because the art and graphics workload for a game has increased quite a lot since the days of "wow his face has like, 16 pixels in 32 bit color!"
Skyrim thus has 160 settlements compared to Morrowind's 27.
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One Skyrim settlement is worth 10 Morrowind settlements because the art and graphics workload for a game has increased quite a lot since the days of "wow his face has like, 16 pixels in 32 bit color!"
Skyrim thus has 160 settlements compared to Morrowind's 27.
Very wisely spake m'gentlescholar I humbly submit to your superier logic *tips trillby*
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Very wisely spake m'gentlescholar I humbly submit to your superier logic *tips trillby*
Regardless of my hyperbole, you'd be a fool not to admit that pitting Morrowind, a low fidelity game which consisted mostly of text, against Skyrim is a bunch of nonsense. Saddam's comparison to Oblivion allowed for a more even match.
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Good point. I hadn't even considered Skyrim's fidelity and lack of text.
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Skyrim has better graphics than Morrowind, therefore it's a better game!
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Since when is a game that blatantly reuses assets wherever it can "hi-fi"
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Okay, it's not "hi-fi." But at least it doesn't use the giant walls of text.
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Skyrim has better graphics than Morrowind, therefore it's a better game!
This is a gross oversimplification, but basically, yes.
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Skyrim has better graphics than Morrowind, therefore it's a better game!
This is a gross oversimplification, but basically, yes.
If it makes you feel any better, Saddam actually tried arguing that point on IRC until he backed out like a coward.
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If it makes you feel any better, Saddam actually tried arguing that point on IRC until he backed out like a coward.
It is much harder to carry a long argument over on IRC because that usually requires actively sitting at your computer. Forums are the primary platform for a long, drawn out argument about how graphics are the single most important aspect of a game as we can each treat the argument like a slow turn based RPG battle.
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Skyrim has better graphics than Morrowind, therefore it's a better game!
This is a gross oversimplification, but basically, yes.
If it makes you feel any better, Saddam actually tried arguing that point on IRC until he backed out like a coward.
No, I didn't. I was trying to argue that the more advanced features of Skyrim - including but not limited to the better graphics - were why they couldn't match up with the "more of everything" that Morrowind offers.
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Skyrim has better graphics than Morrowind, therefore it's a better game!
This is a gross oversimplification, but basically, yes.
If it makes you feel any better, Saddam actually tried arguing that point on IRC until he backed out like a coward.
No, I didn't. I was trying to argue that the more advanced features of Skyrim - including but not limited to the better graphics - were why they couldn't match up with the "more of everything" that Morrowind offers.
Funny, I don't recall you saying anything about that.
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I'm more inclined to believe Saddam when he says that wasn't the argument then I am to put faith in Blanko's memory.
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No, I didn't. I was trying to argue that the more advanced features of Skyrim - including but not limited to the better graphics - were why they couldn't match up with the "more of everything" that Morrowind offers.
So you were arguing with me when I wasn't even present, and still lost?
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Funny, I don't recall you saying anything about that.
I was trying to say it, but it's hard for me to come up with ways to express myself clearly on IRC when everyone is constantly talking and you can be interrupted at any time.
So you were arguing with me when I wasn't even present, and still lost?
I was arguing with Blanko. You aren't the only Morrowind fanboy in the world.
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I'm more inclined to believe Saddam when he says that wasn't the argument then I am to put faith in Blanko's memory.
Too far, dude.
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You know what game has the most of everything? Well, maybe not weapons, but certainly city designs, architecture, dungeon variety, and stuff like that? TESO.
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You know what game has the most of everything? Well, maybe not weapons, but certainly city designs, architecture, dungeon variety, and stuff like that? TESO.
Whelp. This just obliterated the numbers argument. Let's get back to graphics graphics graphics.
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You know what game has the most of everything? Well, maybe not weapons, but certainly city designs, architecture, dungeon variety, and stuff like that? TESO.
Whelp. This just obliterated the numbers argument. Let's get back to graphics graphics graphics.
Why do you even post in this thread? You've never played an Elder Scrolls game. Why don't you go bother the losers in the Dr. Who thread?
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Why do you even post in this thread? You've never played an Elder Scrolls game. Why don't you go bother the losers in the Dr. Who thread?
I don't even know what a video game is. I can't go to that thread because spoilers. I'm waiting for the new season to arrive to Netflix, which at this rate will be like a year.
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Another contradiction of the PGE in TESO - the Mane is not covered in a bunch of other Khajiit's manes. It would have been tricky to implement, sure, but it's still a shame they left it out.
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Another contradiction of the PGE in TESO - the Mane is not covered in a bunch of other Khajiit's manes. It would have been tricky to implement, sure, but it's still a shame they left it out.
It's not a contradiction at all. TESO is canon.
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What does that have to do with it? I'm just saying that it contradicted what was written in the PGE.
They are both correct.
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No Saddam. He is obviously being fucking Rushy.
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Are you trying to do a Kirkbride/Particle Person/c0da thing?
What?
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The ending of the words is fuck you x10
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Okay. This was a very productive discussion on lore. I think we all learned a lot today.
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I thought we were talking about graphics.
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You know what game has the most of everything? Well, maybe not weapons, but certainly city designs, architecture, dungeon variety, and stuff like that? TESO.
It's funny you should mention city designs, because that was one of my least favorite things about the game. Every city I visited seemed to be just like the last, too small, and too sparsely populated.
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You know what game has the most of everything? Well, maybe not weapons, but certainly city designs, architecture, dungeon variety, and stuff like that? TESO.
It's funny you should mention city designs, because that was one of my least favorite things about the game. Every city I visited seemed to be just like the last, too small, and too sparsely populated.
The game is nothing if not wildly inconsistent. Whoever designed the Dunmeri cities definitely dropped the ball, same as the people who worked on the Altmeri and Breton ones. However, some of the other cities show much more imagination in their designs, both in terms of architecture and general layout. I already mentioned that Elden Root is a giant tree, and Hissmir in Black Marsh is a xanmeer - that is to say, a large step pyramid. On an interesting side note, these pyramids were most likely inspired by the ones that the Mesoamericans built, because that seems to be the main influence on the Argonian culture, but there is another possibilty. Similar pyramids, called ziggurats, were built by ancient Mesopotamians. And who else do we know was inspired by Mesopotamia? That's right, the Dwemer. So it turns out you were all wrong in that stupid debate about whether the Dwemer were elves or dwarves. The Dwemer are, and always have been, Argonians.
/lore
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e
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You know what game has the most of everything? Well, maybe not weapons, but certainly city designs, architecture, dungeon variety, and stuff like that? TESO.
It's funny you should mention city designs, because that was one of my least favorite things about the game. Every city I visited seemed to be just like the last, too small, and too sparsely populated.
The game is nothing if not wildly inconsistent. Whoever designed the Dunmeri cities definitely dropped the ball, same as the people who worked on the Altmeri and Breton ones. However, some of the other cities show much more imagination in their designs, both in terms of architecture and general layout. I already mentioned that Elden Root is a giant tree, and Hissmir in Black Marsh is a xanmeer - that is to say, a large step pyramid. On an interesting side note, these pyramids were most likely inspired by the ones that the Mesoamericans built, because that seems to be the main influence on the Argonian culture, but there is another possibilty. Similar pyramids, called ziggurats, were built by ancient Mesopotamians. And who else do we know was inspired by Mesopotamia? That's right, the Dwemer. So it turns out you were all wrong in that stupid debate about whether the Dwemer were elves or dwarves. The Dwemer are, and always have been, Argonians.
/lore
The pyramids really were landing sites for interplanetary starships that enslaved primitive populations by posing as their gods. Mesoamericans and Mesopotamians had nothing to do with it.
Take it from me, the real Daniel Jackson.
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lizard dwarves
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This thread shall not die!
http://kotaku.com/5981583/lets-rank-the-elder-scrolls-games-best-to-worst
Discuss.
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I like that Daggerfall is ranked lowest for being "too big" when compared to Arena, seeing as Arena is infinitely large.
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Is it bigger than Daggerfall? It doesn't look like Bethesda ever really measured it.
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The wilderness outside of cities generates infinitely as you travel through it.
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I see. If it were your list, how would you order them?
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1. Morrowind
2. Skyrim
3. Oblivion (modded and with expansions)
4. Daggerfall
5. Arena
If I were ranking vanilla Oblivion, its place would be switched with Daggerfall.
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We agree that Arena sucks, then. Once I tried to play it, but I gave up when I found I couldn't even change the controls. What did you think of Daggerfall?
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I like Daggerfall a lot actually, and I still play it semi-regularly. I'm still kind of unsure whether or not I should put it below Oblivion, mods or not. Daggerfall is the ultimate roleplayer's sandbox. It certainly is huge, and there is a ton of everything: factions, dialogue (if you think Morrowind's dialogue system is bad...), towns and cities, NPCs, etc. It feels like a true scale representation of a fantasy world. Of course, this results in many things feeling very repetitive, gameplay-wise. This is why I believe only people who really like roleplaying will enjoy the game, but for those who do, it's great.
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1. Skyrim
2. Oblivion
3. Morrowind
4. Daggerfall
5. Arena
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1. Skyrim
2. Oblivion
3. Morrowind
4. Daggerfall
5. Arena
Because this is the order in which the graphics are getting worse.
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Because this is the order in which the graphics are getting worse.
Not because.
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1. Skyrim
2. Oblivion
3. Morrowind
4. Daggerfall
5. Arena
Which of these have you played?
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Which of these have you played?
I do not see how that is relevant.
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Which of these have you played?
I do not see how that is relevant.
We're listing the games in our order of personal preference.
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We're listing the games in our order of personal preference.
Yes, and?
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PP, don't you know that games are judged by their graphics?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiTowCuwF-E
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From best to worst:
1. Oblivion
2. Oblivion
3. Oblivion
4. Oblivion
5. Morrowind
Honorable mention: Dark Souls
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1. Skyrim
2. Oblivion
3. Morrowind
4. Daggerfall
5. Arena
Because this is the order in which the graphics are getting worse.
Perfection can never truly be attained. By testing one's constantly degrading mechanism against this unknowable goal, you reveal the imperfections of your own device. Can you accept this necessity?
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Perfection can never truly be attained. By testing one's consonantly degrading mechanism against this unknowable goal, you reveal the imperfections of your own device. Can you accept this necessity?
wat?
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(http://i.imgur.com/IB3g6F2.jpg)
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wat?
You do not fully comprehend. Such is your imperfection.
(http://i.imgur.com/IB3g6F2.jpg)
You will never know. You are not Sotha Sil.
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You will never know. You are not Sotha Sil.
nigga he ded
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But he wasn't dead in the Second Era, duh. I'm quoting from TESO, if anyone hadn't already guessed. It's one of my favorite quests, actually - you're in the Tribunal Temple, and you have to pass a couple of tests from Vivec and Sotha Sil because reasons. Vivec's test has you investigate a murder and try to judge who the guilty party is, while Sotha Sil's test has you activate and then destroy a Dwemer construct. It's a neat introduction to their respective characters and philosophies, and the closest thing they have to actual presence in the game. ZeniMax has said they're going to introduce them into the game at some point, possibly with Vvardenfell. I bet you'll resubscribe if that happens, PP.
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I'll resubscribe when they make Michael Kirkbride a playable character and introduce CHIM combo mechanics.
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Saddam almost makes TESO sound like its worth playing.
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How?
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How?
The quests sound pretty fun, actually, as long as they aren't in reality linear "follow the magic point on the map" garbage quests. Things like trying to investigate a murder tends to be more complicated than your classic "bear asses" MMO. I know that most of the game isn't like that (having played the beta) but Saddam makes it sound as if it is.
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Sometimes bear asses just need collecting. You don't get to the top of a company without collecting some bear asses.
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I do honestly like the idea of playing TESO, but that's pretty much where it stops. I also like the idea of playing Eve Online and playing Elite:Dangerous, but both of those are boring empty games. It just so happens one gets a lot better with groups of people and the other doesn't allow you to have groups of people.
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Is this game like Skyrim? They seem to have a lot of the same things
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I'll resubscribe when they make Michael Kirkbride a playable character and introduce CHIM combo mechanics.
CHIM could happen. Look, they even reference it here:
(http://oi59.tinypic.com/16kpbd.jpg)
Deep.
How?
The quests sound pretty fun, actually, as long as they aren't in reality linear "follow the magic point on the map" garbage quests. Things like trying to investigate a murder tends to be more complicated than your classic "bear asses" MMO. I know that most of the game isn't like that (having played the beta) but Saddam makes it sound as if it is.
Roughly about two thirds of the quests rely on quest markers, while the rest of them just guide you to a general area where the things you need are. The quests themselves aren't quite riveting dramas, but they do at least avert the "bear asses" trope. And like I said earlier in the thread, they incorporate the lore of the series well, and tend to have some stakes attached. As a result of this, the Vestige does far more world-saving than the heroes of the other games and is therefore the best of them all.
On a different note, who wants to see some more nonsense from Kirkbride?
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/fireside-chats
Ignore the videos. You just want to read the transcript of the "Fireside Chat 1 - Reman and the Shonni-etta" part. It makes the Muatra stuff look remarkably sane in comparison.
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That's more of a Godhead reference than a CHIMference, if anything. I suspect they're just trying to portray that character as eccentric, though, and "we don't even exist" seems to be the most convenient way to do that in fiction.
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Derp, now I feel dumb. I had been thinking of C0DA when I posted that, not CHIM. I know it's not evidence of that either, though. The main lore guy said that while he found C0DA entertaining, it was ultimately 2meta to really get any kind of in-game acknowledgement.
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I don't understand what is going on in this thread at all.
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I don't understand what is going on in this thread at all.
I mean fuck, dude, when that motherfucker shows up - by the way, she just bolted, “I’m the mother of that. I don’t always run, but I'm running now. This is going to be fucked up. I met Akatosh, and I met Lorkhan when I was on my deathbed, and we were hanging out, and I’m really tired of holding this fire. I’m out. You’re going to make this little boy eat his own come.”
That's what's going on.
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Deep, rich lore.
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I don't understand what is going on in this thread at all.
I would like to remind you that posting in this thread is not mandatory.
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I don't understand what is going on in this thread at all.
I would like to remind you that posting in this thread is not mandatory.
Then why do you keep coming here?
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I mean fuck, dude, when that motherfucker shows up - by the way, she just bolted, “I’m the mother of that. I don’t always run, but I'm running now. This is going to be fucked up. I met Akatosh, and I met Lorkhan when I was on my deathbed, and we were hanging out, and I’m really tired of holding this fire. I’m out. You’re going to make this little boy eat his own come.”
That's what's going on.
So the battlefield is covered in semen, and semen is getting all up in their chariot wheels, and what’s in the tents? More semen. And then I thought, well, what if he had to eat it?
I would like to remind you that posting in this thread is not mandatory.
Incorrect.
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I thought Saddam only got weird in IRC.
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Very well, I will go into more detail. CHIM is supposed to be a kind of magical super-state where, if you manage to access it, you can totally break the rules of reality and do all kinds of crazy stuff. It's a bit controversial among the fan community because there's never been any in-game confirmation that it's truly possible to achieve such a state, and as far as I can tell, has only ever been referenced by Vivec and Mankar Camoran in their respective writings, and even then obliquely. They also both wrote in very abstract, metaphorical terms, making it difficult to determine at any time what they actually meant. Anyway, Camoran claimed that Talos used CHIM to transform Cyrodiil from a jungle into a temperate grassland/forest, and an OOG book that Kirkbride wrote - which was later quoted in part in Skyrim - suggested that he used the Thu'um. This vague explanation satisfied many lore-minded fans who noticed the discrepancy, but then along came TESO, and prior to the game's release, we got to see gems like this:
https://twitter.com/tesonline/status/265849694708719616
The worst part was that this wasn't even true. You might remember that I briefly addressed this earlier in the thread:
I found a letter addressed to someone named Parsifal. It made me smile.
Anyway, I am now in Hammerfell. Hopefully it'll be more interesting than High Rock. Although there is at least one cool thing about High Rock that bears mentioning here:
http://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/2cbwkc/eso_adds_a_new_metaphysical_tower_the_doomcrag/
That's right, Kirkbride's wonky theory about magical towers protecting Mundus received some in-game acknowledgement! And a couple of people there discuss the possibility that it was these towers that were responsible for transforming Cyrodiil. On that subject, you might notice that the guy saying "I have no idea what that means" is the same dull historian who wrote this (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Heartland_of_Cyrodiil), which is even controversial in-universe (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Subtropical_Cyrodiil:_A_Speculation). I don't know if ZeniMax is ever going to expand on this or anything, but even the implication that we shouldn't be taking the whole "derp transcription error" explanation at face value is a good thing.
There's a guy on Reddit who explains it better than me:
http://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/2avasd/new_hist_lore_in_eso_spoilers_ye_be_warned/cj0ofcu
The transcription error thing is not supposed to be taken at face value. It shows up in the game as people trying to explain oddities that are clearly more than mere transcription error, and even has at least one text that calls bullshit on that explanation. If there are still lore buffs who are mad about that, then I don't think they're paying enough attention.
Basically, "transcription error" is code for "metaphysical shenanigans being misinterpreted by myopic scholars" such as books showing up before they were published, or constant reference to a jungled Cyrodiil.
This follows a tradition of sorts. One of the best books from TES III is an attempt to discredit the Dragon Break of the Middle Dawn, written by Fal Droon. It's awesome because it appears to have actually been written after the events of TES IV and thus its presence constitutes a Dragon Break in itself. It talks about the fall of the Septim line in the past tense. And what is that name, Fal Droon, an anagram of? Darn Fool.
If you see a painfully boring explanation in the lore, rest assured, it's probably just wrong, on purpose.
So it turns out that the Mane sometimes wears a helmet that has other Khajiit manes on it. That's uh, well, it's something, I guess. It's a bit of a dilution of the description in the PGE, but at least they didn't forget why he was called the Mane to begin with.
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Behold, the ultimate casual:
[16:33:21] <Saddam> Also, Morrowind
[16:33:26] <Saddam> I've decided to beat the game
[16:33:39] <Blanko> Must have been a hard one
[16:33:45] <Saddam> But I'm using console commands to basically become a superhero
[16:33:54] <Saddam> Because I hate the roleplaying aspects of it
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Behold, the ultimate casual:
[16:33:21] <Saddam> Also, Morrowind
[16:33:26] <Saddam> I've decided to beat the game
[16:33:39] <Blanko> Must have been a hard one
[16:33:45] <Saddam> But I'm using console commands to basically become a superhero
[16:33:54] <Saddam> Because I hate the roleplaying aspects of it
wow
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In Elder Scrolls you're already an abnormally strong individual. He is just more of a superhero than the game already allowed.
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I have already had ample experience with the roleplaying of the game, and I don't think that my opinion of it would change just by playing longer. At this point, all I really want to do is complete the quests and explore the whole map. Who knows, I may find more stuff to rustle PP's jimmies with.
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I can hardly wait. I'm sure after zipping around like a god for a few hours you'll be complaining about how boring the game is.
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On the contrary, I'm already having much more fun. I exaggerated a bit, though. All I really did was boost my attributes so I wouldn't fail at skill-related stuff so much, and so that I could move around a bit faster.
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Come back when you've actually played Morrowind. Console cheating doesn't count as a legitimate playthrough.
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I'm sorry you feel the need to post that, but console cheating is still not a legitimate play through. Take that however you want. You're not experiencing the game in full.
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I don't think he cares.
-
I don't think he cares.
His e-cred levels are decreasing. He should care. This is serious.
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Maybe I'll do a super-legit playthrough later. It's not relevant to what I'm trying to experience now, though.
-
It's not relevant to what I'm trying to experience now, though.
Lore?
-
Saddam is trying to actually speedrun Morrowang.
-
No clip into Dagoth Ur's chamber. /kill. Done.
It might actually be a bit more complicated than this. Might have type a few extra lines to trigger the dreams or whatever.
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But Saddam, why enjoy a game when you could slog through it painfully
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But Saddam, why enjoy a game when you could slog through it painfully
Is it really Morrowang if you're not repeatedly trying to hit your foe with a dagger only to foolishly miss?
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Here is the current record-holder:
http://speeddemosarchive.com/Morrowind.html
The playthrough involves skipping through large chunks of the game, though.
It's not relevant to what I'm trying to experience now, though.
Lore?
That, as well as the story in general, and the rest of the setting.
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Saddam wants his memory of playing Morrowind to be as bad as possible so he actually hates the game instead of just pretending he does.
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Why don't you just play Morroblivion, ya heathen
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I just said that I'm enjoying the game more now that I'm unnerfed. ???
Ugh. Potato faces, awkward zooming in on said potato faces whenever they talk? No way.
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You could also just play the game the way it was meant to be played, considering it isn't that difficult.
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You think you're having more fun playing with cheats, but it's false fun. It is unwholesome, impure, and illusory. Real fun is earned through hard work and persistence. When you inevitably grow tired of riding around from quest to quest on your magical chariot of cheats, there will be a little fun-shaped hole in your heart.
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I don't know, I've heard from a lot of people in the fan community that abusing the features and munchkin-ing up are a big part of why the game is still so beloved to this day. For example, apparently all the soaring around you can do doesn't work as well in the later games, because the cities are all in their own separate cells.
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Part of the Nerevarine's journey is the terrible game design. That is part of who he is. If you find a way to circumvent all of that... then it's just not the same adventure. It's a cheap knockoff.
Terrible, just terrible.
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I don't see why people think Morrowind is slow when it's considerably faster than other TES games.
No clip into Dagoth Ur's chamber. /kill. Done.
It might actually be a bit more complicated than this. Might have type a few extra lines to trigger the dreams or whatever.
It's simpler than that, actually. You don't need to trigger or noclip anything, you just need to waltz into Dagoth Ur's lair (which is completely accessible from the beginning) and grab Sunder and Keening on your way there.
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GegenuberVerge used to always make rings of lowering all his stats by a crap load and then receive training for jack cheap until he could survive a jump to Nordy Island.
I on the other hand would smash my character into a wall after robbing some guy for a weapon and repeat until I had the helm of Orwen Bearclaw.
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Nordy Island
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And then Arniel Gane somehow found a way to get his hands on Keening. And then Modryn Oreyn somehow found a way to get his hands on the Helm of Oreyn Bearclaw.
Well, they actually explained that one. The Nerevarine returned it to his family as a gift. I wish they'd made similar efforts for some of the other recurring artifacts in the series. Like the way the Staff of Magnus is in TESO. You last see it when you hand it over to Ayrenn. How did it get to Labyrinthian from there?
Let's get married, beerdo. We'll get a ten percent bonus to our xp gains when we're both online!
No, wait, it looks like only the people who got the Imperial Edition are actually able to get married. That sucks.
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It blows my mind that you two are still playing this.
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beerdo only recently resumed playing, actually. It turns out that ZeniMax doesn't support very many payment methods for their Finnish subscribers. Unnonirregardless, I probably won't be playing it for much longer myself. I have one zone left of the Dominion to complete before I officially reach endgame territory, and I'm not feeling all that enthusiastic about the group PvE format of Craglorn. I might resubscribe if and when they add new areas.
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Let's get married, beerdo. We'll get a ten percent bonus to our xp gains when we're both online!
No, wait, it looks like only the people who got the Imperial Edition are actually able to get married. That sucks.
Also, that'd be gay. Can't have that, now can we?
beerdo only recently resumed playing, actually. It turns out that ZeniMax doesn't support very many payment methods for their Finnish subscribers. Unnonirregardless, I probably won't be playing it for much longer myself. I have one zone left of the Dominion to complete before I officially reach endgame territory, and I'm not feeling all that enthusiastic about the group PvE format of Craglorn. I might resubscribe if and when they add new areas.
I don't know if the problem is with my bank, or because I entered my street address with an "ä" instead of an "a" the first time I tried to subscribe, and I can't for whatever fucking reason correct it (Whenever I try to change it to an "a", it will still use "ä" after I apply the changes... Nicely coded subscription page, Zenimax.), but PayPal seems to work like a charm.
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Skyrim lets you gay marry. Why not TESO?
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Also, that'd be gay. Can't have that, now can we?
Of course we can. The game is super-progressive about its portrayal of gay people and their relationships. In the AMA with the writers, ZeniMax explained that they figured that people in Tamriel wouldn't really consider being gay a big deal or care about it much. And now, because I'm contractually obligated to bring up wonky Kirkbridean writing every few posts in this thread, here's an interesting sidenote. Someone replied to ZeniMax in the AMA and argued that the 36 Lessons of Vivec suggest that there are indeed restrictions on such relationships. Unfortunately, he didn't go into any more detail, and the writers didn't respond, but presumably he was referring to this:
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:36_Lessons_of_Vivec,_Sermon_14
The holy one returned at last, Vehk, golden with wisdom. His head found its body had been tenderly used. He mentioned this to Molag Bal, who told him that he should thank the Barons of Move Like This, 'For I have yet to learn how to refine my rapture. My love is accidentally shaped like a spear.'
So Vivec, who had a grain of Ayem's mercy, set about to teach Molag Bal in the ways of belly-magic. They took their spears out and compared them. Vivec bit new words onto the King of Rape's so that it might give more than ruin to the uninitiated. This has since become a forbidden ritual, though people still practice it in secret.
Here is why: The Velothi and demons and monsters that were watching all took out their own spears. There was much biting and the earth became wet. And this was the last laugh of Molag Bal:
'Watch as the earth shall crack, heavy with so much power, that should have been forever unalike!'
Then that stretch of badlands that had been the site of the marriage fragmented and threw fire. And a race that is no more but that was terrible at the time to behold came forth. Born of the biters, that is all they did, and they ran amok across the lands of Veloth and even to the shores of Red Mountain.
But Vivec made of his spear a more terrible thing, from a secret he had bitten off from the King of Rape. And so he sent Molag Bal tumbling into the crack of the biters and swore forever that he would not deem the King beautiful ever again.
Vivec wept as he slew all those around him with his terrible new spear. He named it MUATRA, which is Milk Taker, and even the Chimeri mystics knew his fury. Anyone struck by Vivec at this time turned barren and withered into bone shapes. The path of bones became a sentence for the stars to read, and the heavens have never known children since. Vivec hunted down the biters one by one, and all their progeny, and he killed them all by means of the Nine Apertures, and the wise still hide theirs from Muatra.
The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
My rebuttal is as follows: lol@interpreting the lessons of Vivec literally. That being said, I don't think that this was necessarily meant to mean consensual oral sex. The presence of Daedra, as well as the use of the term "words," indicates that what was happening was more magical in nature. We already know that Kirkbride is a big believer in the power of semen, after all.
Also, I saw another guy in r/teslore complain that the events of TESO could never happen because Molag Bal is, ahem, "Vivec's bitch," as shown by that passage. To which I say, lol@interpreting the lessons of Vivec literally. But even if we do, I don't think it shows Molag Bal would forever be unwilling or incapable of invading Nirn. If anything, it gives him more motivation. He's still salty about what happened between him and Vivec.
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What the hell is wrong with Kirkbride
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I am the Chosen One! Specifically, the "Moon Hallowed," whose job is to guide the prospective new Mane in the process of becoming the Mane. I think. Anyway, this is actually the first time in the game that you're explicitly made a chosen one of any kind. It's funny, because I remember in the advertising and promotion of this game, they kept talking about how in the main story, you were the "Soulless One," a hero predestined by some prophecy to defeat Molag Bal. That all turned out to be crap. Dumbledore gives a few generic "There's something special about you" comments at the start of the game, but there's no prophecy, no talk about fate or destiny, and the PC is referred to as "the Vestige" throughout, which is, needless to say, a far better name than the Soulless One. It's like the dumb "derp transcription error" tweet I linked earlier - I think there was some real miscommunication between the developers and whoever was promoting the game.
No, I will not shut up. I'll keep talking about the main story, particularly because I want to correct an old post of mine here:
I'm a little confused about how the main story is going to work. I had thought that the war was just a PvP thing that would always be going on throughout the course of the game, but now it's being tied into the story? You have to win the war and become the emperor so that you can fight off Molag Bal for good? But then what happens with the PvP area and the Dark Anchors - are they just not there anymore? ???
The Kotaku article in the post from Snupes that I was replying to doesn't seem to exist anymore, but I summarized what the author said about the story, and she was way off base. You don't become the emperor or win the war. You do mount an invasion of Coldharbour after you've completed your faction's storyline, but it's basically a coalition of people from the Fighters and Mages Guilds. The three faction leaders outright refuse to participate, for fear that it'll weaken their own war efforts. Anyway, the main story itself, with the Prophet and all, is more about trying to find a long-term, so to speak, solution to the chaos, by trying to find the Amulet of Kings. But at the same time, Mannimarco is looking for the Amulet, because his plan is to use it to usurp Molag Bal and become a god himself. Somehow. He's not exactly clear on that front.
That aside, Mannimarco is pretty cool. I honestly think that he was included as an apology for how badly Oblivion bungled him. (I would seriously welcome a retcon of his death in a later TES game. They could say that it was just some body double you killed while the real Mannimarco made his escape. Given how easy he was to take down, who could argue with that?) The only issue I have with his portrayal is the fact that, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, he seems to pretty unambiguously die. Molag Bal drags his soul into Coldharbour for some torturing, too. In a later quest, you meet him while he's being punished, have the option of freeing him (I have no idea why) and he says something about being neither alive nor dead. Uh huh. And bear in mind that this is the young Mannimarco, centuries before the Warp in the West may have given him any divine powers. He wasn't even a lich at this point. This is the biggest question mark I've encountered in terms of lore, but that's probably to the game's credit, all things considered.
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Morrowang is currently discounted on Steam. I bought it. Now I will be able to properly inform all of you of why it sucks a lot after the download finishes.
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Morrowang is currently discounted on Steam. I bought it. Now I will be able to properly inform all of you of why it sucks a lot after the download finishes.
Welcome to the gaming master race. Here's your complimentary e-peen.
*hands you Vivec's large e-peen*
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Morrowang is currently discounted on Steam. I bought it. Now I will be able to properly inform all of you of why it sucks a lot after the download finishes.
Well, I'm sure this will be stupid. Don't try to do anything active (fight, cast spells, pick locks, etc.) while maximally fatigued and you shouldn't have too terrible of a time.
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Oblivion is also discounted, and I have bought it. This will be my first time doing Shivering Isles and Knights of the Nine.
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Oblivion is also discounted, and I have bought it. This will be my first time doing Shivering Isles and Knights of the Nine.
Hint: Put on the Gray Cowl while wearing the Relics of the Crusader.
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First problem, the game has no options for high resolutions. Apparently the developers had no foresight and thought that 1400x1050 was the pinnacle of human resolution technology. That or they assumed "no one in the distant future could possibly want to play this shitty game."
More to come.
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Use this: http://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/41102/?
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I fixed it moments after making that post, but thanks for the effort. Critiques so far:
The combat feels completely unsatisfying. When I am wielding an iron sword it sounds more like it is made of wood, always making a dull thudding noise when I hit a rat. Oh, also I lost a fight to a rat using a sword, my character must have some sort of severe muscle disorder.
The characters say things (voiced) that don't match their text speech. e.g. a friendly in text character that likes me and easily explains anything I want to ask about says out loud "get on with it" in a "hurry up" tone of voice, as if they've been in a hurry for the past fifteen minutes as they explained the entirety of Balmora's history to me.
Towns feel empty. Aside from a few characters, Balmora is a barren wasteland. I'll admit that might be intended, so I'll have to explore further to confirm whether that is intended or if the detail level of the game is just low.
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Is Morrowind, lore-wise, supposed to be really foggy?
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Let's say yes.
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Towns feel empty. Aside from a few characters, Balmora is a barren wasteland. I'll admit that might be intended, so I'll have to explore further to confirm whether that is intended or if the detail level of the game is just low.
Balmora is supposed to be a prosperous town, being the seat of House Hlaalu on Vvardenfell.
Is Morrowind, lore-wise, supposed to be really foggy?
No, it's basically just a cover for the poor draw distance. I'm sure you can get rid of it with mods, though.
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You can. There's a reason everybody uses MGE.
(http://i.imgur.com/xtsV4Hj.jpg)
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Balmora is supposed to be a prosperous town, being the seat of House Hlaalu on Vvardenfell.
Oh, well that is just awful if that is how the game depicts a wealthy city. Maybe dunmer just don't believe in decorations.
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Well, yes, The Dunmer are very austere. Also, let's not forget that this game was released in 2002. If you want the game to look like it was released later than 2002, use mods.
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Well, yes, The Dunmer are very austere. Also, let's not forget that this game was released in 2002. If you want the game to look like it was released later than 2002, use mods.
Mods are irrelevant. I am critiquing the game that was originally released, not the game that had its copious shortfalls corrected by third parties. How you could think this game is better than more recent TES games is beyond me. Maybe more playtime will give me insight on your... interesting... taste in video games.
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The problem is that you'll never be able to like this game as long as I like it as much as I do, because you like to be hilariously glib by disagreeing with everything I say. This means that I've potentially inadvertently ruined the pinnacle of videogame history for you. To help prevent further damage, I won't be defending any of Morrowind's many flaws for the remainder of your playthrough. Instead, here are some screenshots I took today of modern day Balmora:
http://imgur.com/a/iWg8z
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http://imgur.com/a/iWg8z
Needs more fog.
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The weather was actually naturally foggy until it cleared up for that last shot. I could extend the view distance as far as I want, but I prefer the fog.
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The weather was actually naturally foggy until it cleared up for that last shot. I could extend the view distance as far as I want, but I prefer the fog.
Do you have some sort or natural weather mod? I had something like that on Oblivion. I also had this really brutal gore mod that allowed you to cut off npc limbs.
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It's becoming difficult to keep track, but I don't think I have anything that changes the weather specifically. It's just a very foggy place.
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dem models
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Well, yes, The Dunmer are very austere. Also, let's not forget that this game was released in 2002. If you want the game to look like it was released later than 2002, use mods.
The problem is that you'll never be able to like this game as long as I like it as much as I do, because you like to be hilariously glib by disagreeing with everything I say. This means that I've potentially inadvertently ruined the pinnacle of videogame history for you. To help prevent further damage, I won't be defending any of Morrowind's many flaws for the remainder of your playthrough. Instead, here are some screenshots I took today of modern day Balmora:
http://imgur.com/a/iWg8z
Let's not forget that Rushy bases his opinion on a videogame solely by its level of graphical detail and quality. It doesn't matter that the game was released in 2002 to him. If it looks worse than modern games, it's worse than modern games. Gameplay and story is irrelevant.
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Let's not forget that Rushy bases his opinion on a videogame solely by its level of graphical detail and quality. It doesn't matter that the game was released in 2002 to him. If it looks worse than modern games, it's worse than modern games. Gameplay and story is irrelevant.
I also commented on the gameplay (unsatisfying combat) and the story (characters don't match their emotions properly). This game really isn't all that great, stop making such a fuss. Regardless of your whinging, graphics are the single most important part of the game because graphics is what you interact with. If graphics weren't important, why would developers bother bettering them?
You and PP are just like the Half-Life nerds that promote it 24/7 and claim Half-Life is literally the best game that ever existed. Both Half-Life and Morrowind were fantastic games in their own right when they were released. These games haven't aged well. Sorry your nostalgia appears to be clouding your already questionable judgement.
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Let's not forget that Rushy bases his opinion on a videogame solely by its level of graphical detail and quality. It doesn't matter that the game was released in 2002 to him. If it looks worse than modern games, it's worse than modern games. Gameplay and story is irrelevant.
I also commented on the gameplay (unsatisfying combat) and the story (characters don't match their emotions properly). This game really isn't all that great, stop making such a fuss. Regardless of your whinging, graphics are the single most important part of the game because graphics is what you interact with. If graphics weren't important, why would developers bother bettering them?
You and PP are just like the Half-Life nerds that promote it 24/7 and claim Half-Life is literally the best game that ever existed. Both Half-Life and Morrowind were fantastic games in their own right when they were released. These games haven't aged well. Sorry your nostalgia appears to be clouding your already questionable judgement.
I fully agree with all of these skillfully articulated points.
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Morrowind had shitty graphics even for it's own time. We got Halo: Combat Evolved a year before Morrowind, and it looks considerably better in all regards. It's like Bethesda didn't even try with graphics because they figured that the gameplay and overworld was so deep that nothing else mattered.
(http://i.imgur.com/4lifum5.jpg)
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Morrowind had shitty graphics even for it's own time. We got Halo: Combat Evolved a year before Morrowind, and it looks considerably better in all regards. It's like Bethesda didn't even try with graphics because they figured that the gameplay and overworld was so deep that nothing else mattered.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/4lifum5.jpg[img]
Before anybody else spoils it for you, I want you to take a really good look at the screenshot you just posted and tell me you honestly believe that those are the graphics of a game released in 2001.
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Morrowind had shitty graphics even for it's own time. We got Halo: Combat Evolved a year before Morrowind, and it looks considerably better in all regards. It's like Bethesda didn't even try with graphics because they figured that the gameplay and overworld was so deep that nothing else mattered.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/4lifum5.jpg[img]
Before anybody else spoils it for you, I want you to take a really good look at the screenshot you just posted and tell me you honestly believe that those are the graphics of a game released in 2001.
Of course. Halo: Combat Evolved had really advanced graphics for the time. I could list 6 other games released around that time that looked considerably better than Morrowind. Don't get all pissy just because Morrowind looks like garbage. The developers are to blame here, not me.
Splinter Cell, for example.
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Okay, just in case you're genuinely retarded and not for teh lulz epic meeming me, this is what Halo: CE looks like:
(http://img.gamefaqs.net/screens/4/c/7/gfs_5872_2_1.jpg)
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I mean, damn, Myst was released in 1993 and it looks considerably better than Morrowind.
(http://i.imgur.com/a00mOah.jpg)
Also, Metroid Prime. 2002. Looks like real life when compared to Morrowind.
(http://i.imgur.com/vflEWfe.jpg)
Okay, just in case you're genuinely retarded and not for teh lulz epic meeming me, this is what Halo: CE looks like:
(http://img.gamefaqs.net/screens/4/c/7/gfs_5872_2_1.jpg)
You're not helping your case. That screenshot still displays graphics considerably more advanced than Morrowind.
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It seems like you actually did mistake a screenshot of the anniversary edition of CE for one of the original game, and are now trying to play it off like you were totally messing with me the entire time. Either way, you are wasting a lot of space.
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Look, a presumably-serious article that also associated that picture with the original version of the game:
http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/298259,15-best-gaming-graphical-greats.aspx
lol
I do agree that Halo looks better than Morrowind, though. To be more specific, while the environments of Morrowind look acceptable, the people look completely fucking retarded.
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So you're trying to say that this:
(http://i.imgur.com/VVMi7QH.jpg)
Looks better than this:
(http://i.imgur.com/4lifum5.jpg)
and
(http://img.gamefaqs.net/screens/4/c/7/gfs_5872_2_1.jpg)
I thought we were having a serious conversation.
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Look, a presumably-serious article that also associated that picture with the original version of the game:
http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/298259,15-best-gaming-graphical-greats.aspx
"But the character engine that sees ragdoll physics throwing dead bodies, arms and legs flaying about"
Yeah, the author definitely just played the anniversary edition and thought it was the original.
They also used the cover art of Exile as a "Myst" screenshot.
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Stop citing my sources, guys. You're ruining the fun.
And no, PP2. I have the original Halo: Combat Evolved for PC. You're just easy to bait when it comes to Morrowind.
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Yeah, but on the other hand, you frequently say and believe really stupid things without any irony.
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Yeah, but on the other hand, you frequently say and believe really stupid things without any irony.
Also, there is no such thing as "the original Halo: Combat Evolved for PC".
So you think.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo:_Combat_Evolved (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo:_Combat_Evolved)
This doesn't exist? Weird.
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I was going to make a pedantic distinction between the original game and the custom edition.
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I have helped beerdo end the Planemeld, except in a couple of instanced areas along the way where the enemies didn't exist for me. Nirn has been saved, but now he myst complete the final quest, taking his soul back from Molag Bal. I like that they leave that quest until last, even though so much more was at stake in the previous ones. It's a nice way of coming full circle, bringing the story back to where it started - with you. Unlike, ahem, certain other games, in which you get the impression that your story seems to be more the story of some other fucking guy. Bleh.
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Myst is also pre-rendered 3d, and not real-time.
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It also doesn't even look that great.
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Metroid Prime looks pretty good though.
And Phantasmagoria, which was released in 1995, looks much better than Morrowind which was released in 2002. Why is that?
(http://i.imgur.com/6DyvYNT.gif)
(http://i.imgur.com/lOueNnf.jpg)
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The 3D is pre-rendered and can therefore be very detailed. Also, it doesn't Look at those terrible colours.
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The 3D is pre-rendered and can therefore be very detailed. Also, it doesn't
The characters model do. They look like real people. I don't even know what people look like in Morrowind.
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>character models
Those ARE real people, derp.
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>character models
Those ARE real people, derp.
epically trolld in ur gay butthole
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>character models
Those ARE real people, derp.
epically trolld in ur gay butthole
hehehehehehe
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Blanko cannot into TES lore:
<Saddam> Go back to playing TESO
<Saddam> Did you get your soul back yet?
<beerdo> no
<Blanko> beerdo lost his the first time he booted up TESO
<beerdo> There's no such thing as souls, so no
<Saddam> But there is such a thing as souls in TES
<Saddam> The reason you're able to come back to life every time you die is because you have no soul
<Blanko> wat
<Blanko> When do you come back to life in TES
<Blanko> Outside of TESO because lol MMO
<Saddam> In TESO
<Saddam> That's the explanation for why you're able to come back to life
<Saddam> Because you have no soul
<Blanko> ...
<Blanko> Why did I ask...
<Saddam> Although when you do get your soul back, you're still able to come back to life
<Saddam> That's their story, anyway
There may be some sort of explanation for that last detail, though. I think the implication is that Meridia hangs on to your soul when she sends you back in time.
I am now a werewolf! So far, it's pretty simplistic and not very beneficial, but I've only just begun the skill line, so maybe it'll get better. It's definitely superior to what was portrayed in Daggerfall and Morrowind, anyway. Speaking of which, what did you think of Bloodmoon, PP? I don't think you've really talked about that part of the game before.
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It's really difficult. I haven't had a character powerful enough to survive long on Solstheim for a long time.
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It's really difficult. I haven't had a character powerful enough to survive long on Solstheim for a long time.
I'm sure Saddam will have no problems with his console hacked character.
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beerdo has now beaten the main story of TESO. He's not very enthusiastic about it, but he's still subscribed, so presumably he's enjoying the game. Getting information from him is like pulling teeth.
Also, here's an addendum to this:
So it turns out that the Mane sometimes wears a helmet that has other Khajiit manes on it. That's uh, well, it's something, I guess. It's a bit of a dilution of the description in the PGE, but at least they didn't forget why he was called the Mane to begin with.
A Khajiit actually talks about the original description of the Mane wearing so many manes that they're weighed down and have to be carried around. Apparently that happened in "ancient times," but now they wear the headdress because it's more practical. The authors of the PGE sure got a lot of things wrong.
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e
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inb4WolfRoDah
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The big moment has arrived. I have beaten the Aldmeri Dominion questline! Brace yourselves for another long rambling review, because, as I mentioned earlier, this was definitely my favorite of the alliances.
All we see of the Summerset Isles is Auridon, the smaller of the two. It's not a great beginning for the alliance, I have to admit. It's not terrible or anything, just kind of underwhelming. PP and I, along with half the lorefags on the Internet, have already bawed about the architecture and city designs - they're far too rustic, too primitive, and too unassuming for the Altmer. The land itself isn't anything to gawk at either, it's just typical sort of meadows and countryside stuff. The writing is a little bit better. The Altmer aren't too over-the-top with the snobbiness and pride, and we learn a few interesting things about their culture, but again, nothing too impressive. At least this zone isn't very big.
Then we get to Valenwood, and it's fucking awesome. It looks great, it's a ton of fun to explore, and it never once feels generic or clichéd. That last point applies doubly to the Bosmer themselves. I mean, think about how easy it would have been to fuck these guys up and just turn them into environmentalist little pixies or something. But no, the writers hit on all the unique aspects of their society, even the particularly dark and creepy ones. Their paganistic religious beliefs, their cannibalism, their deep reverence of the Green Pact and dire consequences if it's violated, their disgusting cuisine made entirely of animal products, the mysterious walking city of Falinesti, the spiritual leader called the "Silvenar" - everything. Virtually all of the existing lore is explored (there might be a couple of things that they missed, but there's nothing that comes to mind), and then they add some new lore of their own, which all fits with the setting while being creative in its own right. It's the best province in the game by far, and the fact that there are three zones of it makes it all the better.
Finally, there's Elsweyr, which is represented by the starting island of Khenarthi's Roost and most of the final zone, Reaper's March. The land itself has a sort of central African feel to it, big rolling plains, savannahs, lions and antelopes, that kind of thing. The Khajiit culture and society is a unique blend of real-world influences. The Romani culture definitely plays a big part, given how many of them travel around in caravans and are mistrusted by other races, but they have Indian accents, their temples and ruins look very African, and their architecture, with all the stilts and big roofs, is inspired by southeastern Asia. It's all interesting stuff, but the main focus with the Khajiit is their religion, particularly their reverence of the moons, because they're Lorkhan's body, or something like that. Also, they call him Lorkhaj. But anyway, here's the best part. In the final quest, you get to go to the moons. No, really. You're totally following in the footsteps of the mananauts.
/awesome
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Reading that kind of made me want to play TESO. Valenwood sounds amazing.
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I've been playing Morrowind regularly for the last couple of weeks. The game has grown on me a lot, even the little idiosyncracies that I hated when I first began playing it. I enjoy the wide variety of skills, and now I'm irritated that Oblivion and especially Skyrim trimmed them down so much. One-handed and two-handed? Lame. Same with all the weapon types. Why couldn't there have been spears or throwing weapons in Skyrim? Or why couldn't they at least have added some variety among the four basic weapon types that they did have? Okay, it might not have made much cultural sense to include the Japanese weapons from Morrowind, but there were other options available to them. Like, some of the daggers could have been seaxes. Or some of the swords could have been, I don't know, falchions. And if they had included spears, they could have brought in atgeirs. They'd have been a cool addition.
Also, I like the towns and cities. Some of them came across as overly complex and labyrinthine at first, and to a degree that is a problem, but it's really more the map system that's responsible for the confusion. It's not very good when you're navigating a small area with different points of interest at different heights. But the cities themselves aren't intentionally confusing, and it only takes a little familiarity before it becomes relatively simple to find your way throught them. In Vivec, for example, most of the cantons follow the same basic layout. Once you figure that out, the city becomes a lot less intimidating.
I've beaten the main quest of Morrowind! Inb4 "no ur a faker go play it 4 reelz" or whatever. Although I am going to play it without commands at some point, I felt that what I did was a better introduction to the depth of the game than diving right in from the start. Anyway, it occurs to me that I get more responses when I'm being negative, so here goes:
I still don't like the beginning of the game. We may simply have to agree to disagree on this point, but to me, it seems like you're a political pawn right from the start, being blatantly manipulated for the benefit of other people, and the only way to advance the story is to play along and let them use you for their own purposes. Admittedly, I made a mistake the last time we discussed this when I said that the first few missions had you redundantly gathering information that the Empire already has - that wasn't true. But still, the behind-the-scenes manipulation is there, particularly evident in the fact that they don't even bother to tell you that you're the Nerevarine at first, and it felt very undermining to my role as the supposed hero.
The rest of the story is good, though. It's definitely the most unique and creative story Bethesda's ever come up with. Really, the only other big problem I have with it is the dialogue, which still sucks. I don't mind reading, but those dialogue menus are far too convoluted and difficult to keep track of, not to mention redundant to the point of frustration. Was it really necessary for literally every single character short of Vivec and Dagoth Ur to have an option for "Solstheim," just so they could all repeat, "Solstheim? A terrible place, I've heard. There's a boat from Khuul, if you have any reason to go."? One thing that would have improved the dialogue considerably is giving the options that you've already selected the same shading that was in Oblivion and Skyrim to indicate that yes, you've already heard about that one.
Also, tell us more about what you think of the game, Rushy.
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k now beat it legit fag
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Also, tell us more about what you think of the game, Rushy.
I will if I start playing it again. Right now I'm busy playing Elite: Dangerous and am on a quest to find content. Must be in there somewhere.
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I still don't like the beginning of the game. We may simply have to agree to disagree on this point, but to me, it seems like you're a political pawn right from the start, being blatantly manipulated for the benefit of other people, and the only way to advance the story is to play along and let them use you for their own purposes.
It seems that way because, in the beginning, that's the way it is. You were released from prison specifically to carry out the Blades' (and therefore the Emperor's) wishes. You don't have to be a pawn, though. There's a legitimate way to beat the game that doesn't involve working with the Blades at all.
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Here is Mankar Camoran's cheesy monologue. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GsqEfSOJOU) Notice that the phrase "hero of destiny" is used without a trace of irony, and that the voice actor sounds like a right ponce. He is going to rebuild the world, to make it a better place by any means possible. You cannot possibly stop him. His plan is already set in motion. Wow, I've never heard that before. Oh wait, yes I have, in everything ever.
Compare to this, the conversation you have with Dagoth Ur before he kills you over and over. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pt6O-COePs) Firstly, his voice is actually intimidating. Secondly, he actually converses with you. Well, first he gives you the option to just "skip the speeches" and get right to business. He treats you as an equal, recognizing the fact that you may indeed be Lord Neravar incarnate. He asks you questions, and offers to answer questions of yours. It feels personal. You aren't just another hero of destiny rolling your eyes at another evil mastermind monologue.
Wait, what the hell were you trying to pull here? That's a mod. Dagoth Ur has a handful of voice-acted lines in the vanilla game, but his dialogue is just text. And the voice actor was some doofy-sounding guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPAuvfqocFY
Nice try, fanboy. Also, you're still wrong about Terence Stamp. He's great.
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ITT: Saddam responds to posts made almost 5 months ago.
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Oops. I haven't beaten the game in a long time.
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Noob. And as for the point you made just now, eh, fair enough. I'm playing Oblivion now, and it's nowhere near as good as I remembered it being. I've been spoiled by the Morrofaggotry, haven't I? First Fallout, now TES. I'm transforming into a bitter PC elitist, doomed to forever rant about consoles and casual gamers and the dumbing down of video games. I gazed into the abyss, and the abyss gazed back.
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Noob. And as for the point you made just now, eh, fair enough. I'm playing Oblivion now, and it's nowhere near as good as I remembered it being. I've been spoiled by the Morrofaggotry, haven't I? First Fallout, now TES. I'm transforming into a bitter PC elitist, doomed to forever rant about consoles and casual gamers and the dumbing down of video games. I gazed into the abyss, and the abyss gazed back.
What's more likely is that you were bullied into jumping on the Morrowang bandwagon and now you're intimidated by Oblivion's perfection and the criticism of your peers.
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Oblivion's perfection
(http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130217234522/elderscrolls/images/0/0f/Bittneld_the_Curse-Bringer.png)
Potato face perfection
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Looks better than Fallout 3's faces in my opinion. And certainly looks infinitely better than Morrowang's.
(http://i.imgur.com/ANy9UuQ.png)
The hair here looks like a moth made out of cheap wood. Also, jew-burns.
(http://i.imgur.com/j6hbhyI.jpg)
Hair looks pretty good here.
(http://i.imgur.com/M319j4T.jpg)
Just ridiculous.
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(http://i.imgur.com/j6hbhyI.jpg)
Hair looks pretty good here.
No, it doesn't. ??? It looks like ass.
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(http://i.imgur.com/j6hbhyI.jpg)
Hair looks pretty good here.
No, it doesn't. ??? It looks like ass.
Ok, so you're saying that Fargoth's hair looks better than this?? Truly unbelievable. How can you even play games when you're legally blind?
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I can look at Fargoth without wanting to punch him in the face, so yeah, he does look much better. But even setting aside the issue of how incredibly annoying the Adoring Fan in particular is, Oblivion's character design was a very ill-advised step towards WoW-style cartooniness. I'm no fan of Morrowind's character designs - even with the technology they had at the time, they could have made them look much better - but they're still preferable to the cherubic potato faces.
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I can look at Fargoth without wanting to punch him in the face, so yeah, he does look much better. But even setting aside the issue of how incredibly annoying the Adoring Fan in particular is, Oblivion's character design was a very ill-advised step towards WoW-style cartooniness. I'm no fan of Morrowind's character designs - even with the technology they had at the time, they could have made them look much better - but they're still preferable to the cherubic potato faces.
Please tell me more about the technology available at the time because it seems like you know a lot about it.
Also, I'm not sure I agree with the WoW comparison at all. Could you elaborate?
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There are games that came out prior to Morrowind that had characters that looked better and moved more realistically. As we just discussed, Halo was one of them. And the WoW comparison might be a stretch, but I got the same sort of cartoony vibe off of both games, the feeling that they were trying to go for distinctiveness and exaggeration of the characters' physical features rather than having them look realistic or natural. Realistic-looking fantasy characters might sound a bit like an oxymoron, but it's something that Skyrim did very well, and even TESO didn't do too badly at it either.
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Consoles could render characters that looked like this in-game back in 2001. This game also ended up on PC in 2002.
(http://i.imgur.com/WiMKvnB.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/yc3SfRx.jpg)
I realise that Morrowind being open world might have forced them to cut down on the visual quality of the character design at the time to keep the polycount down and stuff.
But using a picture of a retarded looking player designed character to compare Fallout 3 and Oblivion is not a fair comparision. Everyone in Fallout 3 looks better than everyone in Oblivion.
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My exploits on r/teslore are going very well:
http://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/2oy4am/storylore_question_eso/
People actually agree with the nonsense (my explanation of how TESO fits into C0DA) I made up! Seriously, though, I have gained new respect for the whole C0DA thing. It's interesting.
Also, I read that the name "Bal Foyen" from Morrowind originated in Tamriel Rebuilt. That's cool.
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C0da is some nonsense you made up?
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Saddam's posts on Reddit are proof that Reddit makes you dumber but only while you're on Reddit.
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Cyrodil looks like that lore-wise.
Yeah, after its actual lore appearance was retconned. And then retconned again.
The bolded part is incorrect. Well, I suppose you could call it a retcon insofar as they're introducing new information, but it may not necessarily contradict what we had known prior to TESO coming out.
Normal sized Dwarven armor is manufactured by normal-sized people out of dwarven metal.
Incorrect. I mean, it can be manufactured by other races, and it is from time to time, but you find plenty of Dwemer weapons and armor while looting their ruins throughout the course of the series. They must be Dwemer-made, barring the existence of some weird pranksters who manufactured the items, hid them deep in the ruins, and carefully reactivated all the automatons before leaving. Although, now that I think of it, you see plenty of libraries containing relatively-recent books hidden deep within ancient ruins in TESO. I'm not sure how they got there if people aren't bringing them in.
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What the fuck are you doing
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I just realized that the Dwemer share many similarities with Tolkien Dwarves.
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I hate this thread.
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I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favourite thread on the FES
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Incorrect. I mean, it can be manufactured by other races, and it is from time to time, but you find plenty of Dwemer weapons and armor while looting their ruins throughout the course of the series. They must be Dwemer-made, barring the existence of some weird pranksters who manufactured the items, hid them deep in the ruins, and carefully reactivated all the automatons before leaving. Although, now that I think of it, you see plenty of libraries containing relatively-recent books hidden deep within ancient ruins in TESO. I'm not sure how they got there if people aren't bringing them in.
There is no reason to assume the armor you find in dwarven ruins was made by dwarves, since there is evidence all over that countless other people have rummaged through those ruins before you. Not to mention placing dwarven armor that you can't wear in the dungeons would just be a dick move on the part of the game devs.
Also, the same armor can be worn by both men and women. Are you going to make the lore claim that TES armor magically grows boob plates to fit the wearer?
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Okay, I won't reply to the old posts any more, I promise.
I just realized that the Dwemer share many similarities with Tolkien Dwarves.
They do indeed. Still, I think there's enough variation to keep it from being a straight rip-off like the dwarves in Warcraft.
There is no reason to assume the armor you find in dwarven ruins was made by dwarves, since there is evidence all over that countless other people have rummaged through those ruins before you. Not to mention placing dwarven armor that you can't wear in the dungeons would just be a dick move on the part of the game devs.
Also, the same armor can be worn by both men and women. Are you going to make the lore claim that TES armor magically grows boob plates to fit the wearer?
I remember when I was just starting out with RuneScape finding a piece of goblin armor and being annoyed that I couldn't wear it. Those were the days. On topic, fine. The Dwemer still weren't short, though.
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The Dwemer were masters of crafting and smith-work. They even created an Aetherium Forge, a highly advanced smithing forge to... you guessed it, forge weapons and armor! The Dwemer mainly focused on metallurgy, the study of the physical and chemical elements of metal, just like Dwarves. Because of this, they were able to create their own distinctive form of metal which was easily mistaken for bronze.. bronze being a common Dwarf motif as well. And yes, many Dwemer did in fact live underground. Not all of them, however.
Also, from this concept art... it looks pretty evident that they were intially based on dwarves. There is nothing to compare them to in this picture, but they look anatomically shorter than average & have beards. They are also pictured with weapons and shields that they presumably made themselves.
(http://i.imgur.com/AdCfl0W.jpg)
Morrowind's opening sequence starts in 16 Last Seed, 427, 10 AM. The dwarves disapeared in 1E 700. Yagrum Bagarn, the last dwemer in existence (from Morrowind), has been alive since the dissapearence of the dwarves, making him very very old. Guess what Tolkien race has a very long lifespan as well? Yep, dwarves.
The biggest difference between the two (Dwarves & Dwemer) is that Dwemer were very interested in science and magic, whereas Dwarves were not.
So basically, the Dwemer are carbon copies of Tolkien Dwarves.
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Yagrum was made immortal by corprus.
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Yagrum was made immortal by corprus.
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Mer
"Mer are capable of living for a thousand years, although few ever actually live that long due to disease and violence."
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Yes?
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Yes?
Even if I was wrong, Mer still live a ridiculously long time. Dwemer are mer. So they are still similar to Tolkien Dwarves in that way.
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http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=1182.msg38604#msg38604
???
Why are you just repeating old posts, Vauxy?
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Orsimer are also mer, and their natural lifespan is about 50 years.
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And like Blanko said way back when, elves lived considerably longer than dwarves in Tolkien's work.
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I am finding it difficult to find the average lifespan of a dwemer, so I am going to default to the claim made in the wiki.
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The Dwemer weren't short. Remember when I posted that picture of a Dwemer ghost standing next to a Bosmer (sadaam will probably have the patience to find it), and the Bosmer was shorter? They were on average the same height as the Chimer or Aldmer.
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The Dwemer weren't short. Remember when I posted that picture of a Dwemer ghost standing next to a Bosmer (sadaam will probably have the patience to find it), and the Bosmer was shorter? They were either on average the same height as the Chimer or Aldmer.
Bosmer are supposed to be short.
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Yes? If a Dunmer had been in the same picture, he would have been just as tall as that Dwemer, if not shorter, because the Dwemer ghost was hunching over and had his knees bent.
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Yes? If a Dunmer had been in the same picture, he would have been just as tall as that Dwemer, if not shorter, because the Dwemer ghost was hunching over and had his knees bent.
Dunmer's not in the picture.
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Irrelevant.
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The important thing about the Dwemer isn't their height, but the fact that they're cool. Because they are super cool. It's too bad that TESO didn't really have anything new to say about them. There are a few of their ruins to explore in Morrowind, Skyrim, and Hammerfell, in accordance with the lore, and there are a couple of quests where you help researchers try to find out more about Dwemer technology, but you don't learn anything major.
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You do, however, learn that the layout and appearance of the ruins apparently change over time...
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You do, however, learn that the layout and appearance of the ruins apparently change over time...
Shh. TESO's focus on smaller, less linear dungeons was a welcome return to form for the series.
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You do, however, learn that the layout and appearance of the ruins apparently change over time...
Shh. TESO's focus on smaller, less linear dungeons was a welcome return to form for the series.
Returning to the form of which game?
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I remember when I was just starting out with RuneScape finding a piece of goblin armor and being annoyed that I couldn't wear it. Those were the days. On topic, fine. The Dwemer still weren't short, though.
You brought this back up just to get your new argument pummeled and then revert back to the "nuh-uh" ... "yeah-huh" argument style? Ew.
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You do, however, learn that the layout and appearance of the ruins apparently change over time...
Shh. TESO's focus on smaller, less linear dungeons was a welcome return to form for the series.
Returning to the form of which game?
There are some differences, of course, but in terms of general layout, TESO's dungeons are most similar to Oblivion's. So while they're not fantastic, a good chunk of them do at least offer some alternate routes, and they don't take long to clear at all.
If my language hasn't made it clear by now, dungeon design is one of the many things I've jumped to Team Morrowind for. There, it actually feels like I'm exploring a mysterious ruin or a foreboding temple. Skyrim's dungeons, with their relentless linearity, are just boring. I'm not exploring a dungeon in that game; I'm going on a shitty haunted house ride at an amusement park.
You brought this back up just to get your new argument pummeled and then revert back to the "nuh-uh" ... "yeah-huh" argument style? Ew.
TESO and its dopey libraries-in-dungeons has pretty much tied my hands on this point. I didn't remember them until I had written out that post. So yeah, people must be going in and out of dungeons and dumping stuff there all the time.
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I hate this thread.
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I suggest you stop reading it then.
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Unfortunately participation in this thread is mandatory.
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vie-vec
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Unfortunately participation in this thread is mandatory.
You're learning. On topic, Shivering Isles is pretty good. Much more creative and imaginative than the vanilla game. I don't know if I'd agree that it was heavily inspired by Morrowind, though. It has the giant mushrooms, but not much else.
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Unfortunately participation in this thread is mandatory.
You're learning. On topic, Shivering Isles is pretty good. Much more creative and imaginative than the vanilla game. I don't know if I'd agree that it was heavily inspired by Morrowind, though. It has the giant mushrooms, but not much else.
Giant mushrooms are unique and original scenery that Morrowind created. Anything that has giant mushrooms is mimicking Morrwind by default.
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I'm surprised Saddam didn't make the Shiver Isles/Morrowind connection considering he just played Morrowind.
Are you really playing these games, Saddam? :O
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He's right, though, Shivering Isles has pretty much nothing in common with Morrowind. If giant mushrooms = "MORROWANG RIP-OFF" then Morrowind's giant mushrooms makes it a rip-off of Alice in Wonderland.
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Giant mushrooms! Holy mother of fuck, Morrowind is a Beyond the Dark Portal rip-off!!!
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Giant mushrooms! Holy mother of fuck, Morrowind is a Beyond the Dark Portal rip-off!!!
Morrowind fanboys thought that giant mushrooms specifically were original content the existed only in Morrowind. The point of the reference was showing that Morrowind wasn't very original, not to say Morrowind is literally Beyond the Dark Portal. The same logic stretches to anyone who says that Shivering Isles was only good because "it was totally just like Morrowind, man" when wasn't even remotely like Morrowang.
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I think you're the only person here who's made a connection between giant mushrooms and originality
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lol @ the notion that someone can rip something off from Warcraft.
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He's right, though, Shivering Isles has pretty much nothing in common with Morrowind. If giant mushrooms = "MORROWANG RIP-OFF" then Morrowind's giant mushrooms makes it a rip-off of Alice in Wonderland.
People enjoyed the landscape of SI because it was outlandish and interesting, like Morrowind's. It was a welcome departure from the countryside of Cyrodiil. That's all.
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He's right, though, Shivering Isles has pretty much nothing in common with Morrowind. If giant mushrooms = "MORROWANG RIP-OFF" then Morrowind's giant mushrooms makes it a rip-off of Alice in Wonderland.
People enjoyed the landscape of SI because it was outlandish and interesting, like Morrowind's. It was a welcome departure from the countryside of Cyrodiil. That's all.
Morrowind invented outlandish and interesting landscapes.
Sorry, I just thought I'd save Rushy the trouble of replying himself by saying what he obviously would have said next.
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If he did say that I would respond by saying that SI's environment wasn't just outlandish, it was outlandish in a way that was reminiscent of Morrowind specifically. Then he would probably say Wow Pratical Person your right ans Morrowins a really good game.
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If he did say that I would respond by saying that SI's environment wasn't just outlandish, it was outlandish in a way that was reminiscent of Morrowind specifically. Then he would probably say Wow Pratical Person your right ans Morrowins a really good game.
Shivering Isles has pretty much nothing in common with Morrowind.
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I've played both of them infinitely more than you have, so I think I'll trust my own judgement over yours.
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I've played both of them infinitely more than you have, so I think I'll trust my own judgement over yours.
You could just say "I no longer desire to engage in this argument" rather than post some nonsense like this.
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Which part of that post was nonsense?
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Which part of that post was nonsense?
The part where it has words.
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Classic.
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Classic.
It isn't a very large post. Do you honestly have to sit there and wonder why it is nonsensical or, even if you oddly think it isn't, which part I'm referring to as nonsense?
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Are you more familiar with Morrowind or SI than I am? Inb4 "apparently"
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walnut tell you y
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Are you more familiar with Morrowind or SI than I am? Inb4 "apparently"
That would require that I have omniscience. That would allow me to objectively measure how much you know about those games compared to how much I know, which would, funnily enough, be irrelevant if I had omniscience in the first place.
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But you can probably form an educated guess based on the content of this thread, right?
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But you can probably form an educated guess based on the content of this thread, right?
Yes, given prior information I could guesstimate that I do in fact know more about the games than you do. Nostalgia is a vice that has clouded your judgement, what you think you know about the game probably isn't even true.
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Epic.
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There are definitely some stylistic similarities between the two, upon closer examination. I just wouldn't call it "inspired" by Morrowind in the sense that something like Dragonborn was. Which is a good thing. I'm not saying that Dragonborn was bad or anything, quite the opposite, but originality is a surer path to success than rehashing the past, and pandering to vocal minorities can only get you so far.
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I'm siding with Rushy on this one. SI and Morrowind are tonally completely different, with the one connecting element indeed being giant mushrooms. But even those have a different tone and feel to them. SI feels like it has more in common with Warcraft's Outland than it does with Morrowind.
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TIL Blanko plays WoW. Also, you should play Dragonborn. It's literally Morrowind. Which is funny, because in Morrowind, Solstheim was literally Skyrim. The island seems to transform itself based on which race is largely occupying it.
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TIL Blanko plays WoW. Also, you should play Dragonborn. It's literally Morrowind. Which is funny, because in Morrowind, Solstheim was literally Skyrim. The island seems to transform itself based on which race is largely occupying it.
...Or the landscape changed because a volcano erupted next door to it.
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TIL Blanko plays WoW.
When did I say that?
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TIL Blanko plays WoW.
When did I say that?
You're not supposed to take intentional fallacies seriously. You should have replied with something like "Yes, I am deeply engrossed in the ongoing epic saga of Azeroth. Haters gonna hate."
TIL Blanko plays WoW. Also, you should play Dragonborn. It's literally Morrowind. Which is funny, because in Morrowind, Solstheim was literally Skyrim. The island seems to transform itself based on which race is largely occupying it.
...Or the landscape changed because a volcano erupted next door to it.
I was about to say that Solstheim isn't much closer to Red Mountain than Skyrim is, and so it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense for it to be heavily altered by the eruption when Skyrim hasn't been affected at all, but Dragonborn may have retconned the distance between them somewhat:
(http://images.uesp.net/thumb/7/72/DB-place-Vvardenfell.jpg/800px-DB-place-Vvardenfell.jpg)
Uh huh. Seems legit, Bethesda.
This is amazing. There's actually a trophy called the "Discourse Amaranthine" that appears as a reward in one quest, and it has an odd effect when you activate it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJzJazKrgTs
For those of you who don't get the reference, which I'm sure is virtually all of you, the Amaranth is yet another of Kirkbride's kooky notions. Basically, the idea behind it is that the Aurbis is all the product of some divine being having a very realistic and very long dream. This ties directly into CHIM - one who achieves CHIM realizes, in essence, that they are part of a dream, and so are able to exert control over the dream, rather like lucid dreaming. There's a bit more to it than that, but it's very complicated, and I don't fully understand it all. Frankly, I don't think anyone fully understands it all, not even Kirkbride himself.
I know that this is the nitpickiest of nitpicks to make, but something that's always annoyed me about the quest "The Path of Dawn" is the way that not only does Baurus take it for granted that he's going to be the one who meets up with Raven Camoran, but he actually goes so far as to argue with you if you tell him that you'll do it instead. It's ridiculous. I'm the hero. Baurus is not. It's a pretty basic trope that the hero is the one who goes undercover in situations like this. It's bad enough that Martin hijacks the story later on in the game and manages to get all the credit despite doing very little; I don't need this clown muscling in on my hero territory as well. The fact that the Mythic Dawn have already been targeting him and of course are going to know who he is makes his decision to be the one who meets them all the more stupid.
That aside, Oblivion's quests are still great.
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Saddam doesn't like his generic tropes subverted ever
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I know that this is the nitpickiest of nitpicks to make, but something that's always annoyed me about the quest "The Path of Dawn" is the way that not only does Baurus take it for granted that he's going to be the one who meets up with Raven Camoran, but he actually goes so far as to argue with you if you tell him that you'll do it instead. It's ridiculous. I'm the hero. Baurus is not.
Then I'm going to assume you just love the ending of Fallout 3 where everyone refuses to go into the chamber for you (except for Lyons)? I feel like I remember you voicing an opinion of not liking that ending.
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I know that this is the nitpickiest of nitpicks to make, but something that's always annoyed me about the quest "The Path of Dawn" is the way that not only does Baurus take it for granted that he's going to be the one who meets up with Raven Camoran, but he actually goes so far as to argue with you if you tell him that you'll do it instead. It's ridiculous. I'm the hero. Baurus is not.
Then I'm going to assume you just love the ending of Fallout 3 where everyone refuses to go into the chamber for you (except for Lyons)? I feel like I remember you voicing an opinion of not liking that ending.
Are we going to talk about this again? Really?
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Are we going to talk about this again? Really?
It's relevant when Saddam specifically mentions not liking it when people don't treat you like you're the hero and "only you can do this." I'm fairly sure he mentioned not liking it when the people in Fallout 3 did just that.
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Saddam doesn't like his generic tropes subverted ever
It depends on the trope and how they go about subverting it. If they were trying to subvert the trope in this case, I don't think they did a very good job.
Then I'm going to assume you just love the ending of Fallout 3 where everyone refuses to go into the chamber for you (except for Lyons)? I feel like I remember you voicing an opinion of not liking that ending.
It's relevant when Saddam specifically mentions not liking it when people don't treat you like you're the hero and "only you can do this." I'm fairly sure he mentioned not liking it when the people in Fallout 3 did just that.
There are a lot of problems with F3's ending, but I'd argue that the worst of all is the one that it shares with the rest of the story - tonally and thematically, it just doesn't feel right for a Fallout game. The fact that you couldn't send Fawkes, Charon, or Sergeant RL-3 into the irradiated chamber despite it making more logical sense is annoying, sure, but all in all, it's little more than a crappy end to a crappy story. Of course, if we set the ending aside and look at the overall game, then yeah, it's way, way too obsessed with the player character. Balance is key. I want the game to recognize me as the hero to the degree that I can be doing a fun quest without having some minor character who's done very little so far to suddenly pull me aside and say, "I'll take it from here, bro." I don't want the game to recognize me as the hero to the degree that Three Dog devotes almost all of his airtime to discussing (and judging) me, or Ron Perlman only talking about me in his closing narration and not at all about the future of the setting and characters whose lives I affected.
<Blanko> Saddam: I'm finding your critique of Oblivion confusing
<Blanko> Why would the other characters in-universe think you're the hero
<Blanko> I mean it's the same shit with Morrowind
<Blanko> It's not good enough for you that you prove your worth as the hero with your actions over the course of the game
<Blanko> You have to be the recognized messiah character from the get-go
<pizaaaplanet> Saddam wants to play the game about being Jesus
<Crudblud> Saddam must love those old LJN Bible games for the NES
<Crudblud> So much prophecy and the following thereof, it's unreal
<beerdo> Saddam: On the notion of the Mane's deep doofus voice.
<beerdo> also lack of mane
<beerdo> bible buffé
<beerdo> The Champion of Cyrodiil is literally a nobody
<Blanko> >champion
<Blanko> >literally a nobody
<Blanko> tip top kek
<beerdo> hehehehe
I was criticizing the exchange from a metanarrative perspective, not an in-universe one. Of course I don't expect the characters to all fall to their knees and grovel before me or whatever.
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Saddam, you are so meta.
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It depends on the trope and how they go about subverting it. If they were trying to subvert the trope in this case, I don't think they did a very good job.
(http://i.imgur.com/hm3SqN7.jpg)
Problem?
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Trahearne, my nemesis. At least Martin was voiced by an engaging and charismatic actor!
Anyway, back to Oblivion's quests. These are the best quests that the series has ever had, and by far the best part of Oblivion. You know, Oblivion is actually the first TES game I played, way back in 2011. I remember being irritated by all the flaws that the game had back then - the boring generic medieval European fantasy setting, the total of five or six voice actors, the potato faces, the awkward conversation system, etc. - but I kept playing it, because the quests were so fun and creative.
I also agree with a post that Vauxy made way earlier in the thread (which I won't quote, because I said I wouldn't do that anymore) about the guilds. I like the way that in Oblivion, you spend a lot of time moving up the ranks in the guilds doing routine work for them, the kind of thing that they usually do. There's very little of that in Skyrim outside of the radiant side-quests. They all almost immediately throw you headfirst into the great struggle for the guild's very existence or whatever, and then very quickly following that put you in charge. It's silly. Oblivion's guilds are far more immersive.
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But Saddam, you want people to know that you're the hero in this story and it only makes sense for them to make you the leader at the first possible opportunity. Mundane things are for peasants, not heroes.
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I also agree with a post that Vauxy made way earlier in the thread (which I won't quote, because I said I wouldn't do that anymore) about the guilds. I like the way that in Oblivion, you spend a lot of time moving up the ranks in the guilds doing routine work for them, the kind of thing that they usually do. There's very little of that in Skyrim outside of the radiant side-quests. They all almost immediately throw you headfirst into the great struggle for the guild's very existence or whatever, and then very quickly following that put you in charge. It's silly. Oblivion's guilds are far more immersive.
Yes, and I think this example is a testament to the quality of the writing in Oblivion. You can tell they put a lot of heart and soul into the quests in Oblivion, whereas Skyrim went for the whole "you're the best... aroundddd!" kinda deal, and the writing was shallow beccause of it. The biggest offender, I think, is the Dark Brotherhood quiestline in Skyrim. My god, what a load of shit. Especially the quest "Hail Sithis", in which you kill the current emperor of Tamriel: Titus Mede II. I don't have a problem with that. That's kinda cool. But the aftermath is not. I wish I could see the longterm effects of this, but no. Dark Brotherhood gets sacked and you become the leader you were always destined to be. Skyrim handles the death of a very important character very haphazardly, as if they threw that bit in there just for the "wow! so cool!!!" factor and nothing more.
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But Saddam, you want people to know that you're the hero in this story and it only makes sense for them to make you the leader at the first possible opportunity. Mundane things are for peasants, not heroes.
You're conflating the main quest and the guild quests. To put it bluntly, the main quest is dumb. Nowhere near as stupid as F3's main quest, but still pretty bad. It's dumb from the very first moment that Emperor Patrick Stewart is all like, "Hey, random prisoner! Did you know that you're special? I've seen you in a dream! I think there are great things in store for you!" There's no salvaging any kind of realistic flow or naturalistic character development from a story this hamfisted. So seeing how you're already the Super-Duper Hero of Destiny, they might as well run with it and let you be the Super-Duper Hero of Destiny in peace.
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You're conflating the main quest and the guild quests. To put it bluntly, the main quest is dumb. Nowhere near as stupid as F3's main quest, but still pretty bad. It's dumb from the very first moment that Emperor Patrick Stewart is all like, "Hey, random prisoner! Did you know that you're special? I've seen you in a dream! I think there are great things in store for you!" There's no salvaging any kind of realistic flow or naturalistic character development from a story this hamfisted. So seeing how you're already the Super-Duper Hero of Destiny, they might as well run with it and let you be the Super-Duper Hero of Destiny in peace.
But only the emperor ever thought you were special, all the guards, including Baurus, made it pretty clear that they think the emperor was just going nuts. Baurus eventually goes along with it, but he clearly thinks you're incompetent as the story progresses.
Your argument still makes no sense. It's like you needed something to keep this thread alive and are now throwing shit at the wall hoping it sticks.
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I think the Emperor just got lucky depending on who's controlling the hero of Oblivion. If you complete the game it turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy set in motion by the Emperor himself. If the player doesn't complete the main story then the Emperor was just flat out wrong. He was probably just going insane, but remember... he did predict his own death with pretty good accuracy so he does have that going for him.
It's actually a pretty genius way to start the story, imo. Because you technically do not have to fulfill the Emperor's prophecy.
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Your argument still makes no sense. It's like you needed something to keep this thread alive and are now throwing shit at the wall hoping it sticks.
Welcome to fifty pages ago.
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But only the emperor ever thought you were special, all the guards, including Baurus, made it pretty clear that they think the emperor was just going nuts. Baurus eventually goes along with it, but he clearly thinks you're incompetent as the story progresses.
That doesn't stop Baurus from sending you on to Jauffre with the Amulet when he could easily do it himself, nor Jauffre and Martin from entrusting with you with many more missions following that despite having an entire intelligence agency at their command. Indeed, in the very quest we're discussing, Baurus was content to let you take the lead in gathering and interpreting the Commentaries on the Mysterium Xarxes, which makes his sudden decision that he'll go undercover instead of you all the more odd.
It's like you needed something to keep this thread alive and are now throwing shit at the wall hoping it sticks.
Well, duh. And on that note, there's this interesting book called The Improved Emperor's Guide to Tamriel that you get if you buy the Imperial Edition. Obviously, it's meant to be the "equivalent" of the PGEs that came with previous games. You can read it all here, but be warned that it's quite long, and gets more and more uncomfortably grimdark as it goes on:
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/emperors-guide
In the Skyrim section, there's a nod to one of Kirkbride's silly writings about Nords painting cows that they intend to offer to giants as sacrifices. It's not the first time that bit of Kirkbridean lore has been referenced, though. There's a random event in Skyrim (by which I mean TES V, not TESO's Skyrim) where you see a farmer walking a painted cow over to a giant camp.
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That doesn't stop Baurus from sending you on to Jauffre with the Amulet when he could easily do it himself, nor Jauffre and Martin from entrusting with you with many more missions following that despite having an entire intelligence agency at their command. Indeed, in the very quest we're discussing, Baurus was content to let you take the lead in gathering and interpreting the Commentaries on the Mysterium Xarxes, which makes his sudden decision that he'll go undercover instead of you all the more odd.
He made it clear he didn't want to do any of that, but his respect for the emperor was high enough that he does what the emperor says, even if he thinks it is a bad idea.
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Does that matter? It still comes down to the same thing - you're the hero because the Emperor says you are.
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Does that matter? It still comes down to the same thing - you're the hero because the Emperor says you are.
No. You're the hero if you choose to be the hero, Saddam.
You don't know anything about the Scrolls series.
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Obviously this is all assuming you chose to do the main quest. If you didn't, then the whole discussion is moot.
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Obviously this is all assuming you chose to do the main quest. If you didn't, then the whole discussion is moot.
Then this:
Does that matter? It still comes down to the same thing - you're the hero because the Emperor says you are.
Is patently false. You're the hero because you chose to help Cyrodil, what the emperor says about you is ultimately irrelevant.
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Don't conflate the why and how. Why obviously comes down to player choice, but how is definitely due to the Emperor's vote of confidence. Neither Baurus nor Jauffre would have entrusted you with any of the duties you're given without his approval.
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Don't conflate the why and how. Why obviously comes down to player choice, but how is definitely due to the Emperor's vote of confidence. Neither Baurus nor Jauffre would have entrusted you with any of the duties you're given without his approval.
What? That doesn't even make any sense. Do you know what "why" or "how" means?
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I don't see what was so difficult to understand about that, but I'll rephrase. Obviously you can choose to ignore the main quest and just do your own thing in any given playthrough. That goes without saying; it's a TES game. But that doesn't mean that in storytelling terms, the only thing that's relevant is the player character's willingness to help. If the Emperor hadn't recognized you from his dream, had those meaningful discussions with you, and personally entrusted you with the Amulet, your involvement with the main story would almost certainly have ended right there in the intro dungeon. Baurus would have taken the Amulet, and he'd have gone to see Jauffre. There's no way he'd let some random prisoner that he has zero reason to trust help out, even if the prisoner was eager to help. That's what I mean about the Emperor's blessing being the how of the player character becoming the hero.
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I don't see what was so difficult to understand about that, but I'll rephrase. Obviously you can choose to ignore the main quest and just do your own thing in any given playthrough. That goes without saying; it's a TES game. But that doesn't mean that in storytelling terms, the only thing that's relevant is the player character's willingness to help. If the Emperor hadn't recognized you from his dream, had those meaningful discussions with you, and personally entrusted you with the Amulet, your involvement with the main story would almost certainly have ended right there in the intro dungeon. Baurus would have taken the Amulet, and he'd have gone to see Jauffre. There's no way he'd let some random prisoner that he has zero reason to trust help out, even if the prisoner was eager to help. That's what I mean about the Emperor's blessing being the how of the player character becoming the hero.
We're never given the option of not meeting the emperor so you can't claim what would or wouldn't happen had the player never met the emperor. It's just assumptions and nonsense.
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I'm not talking about what would happen if you didn't meet the Emperor. It's what would happen if the Emperor didn't think you were special at all, if you were just some random prisoner who he and his guards happened to meet along the way. I'll grant that I am making assumptions, but I think they're fairly reasonable ones.
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I'm not talking about what would happen if you didn't meet the Emperor. It's what would happen if the Emperor didn't think you were special at all, if you were just some random prisoner who he and his guards happened to meet along the way. I'll grant that I am making assumptions, but I think they're fairly reasonable ones.
You're forgetting that the Emperor and his Blades had to escape through your cell. Either way, you were getting out.
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Looks like this is your lucky day. Just stay out of our way.
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Sure, you'd escape, but they wouldn't bother including you in their plans. You'd just be some guy who caught a lucky break. Like beerdo said.
Bear in mind, though, that my interpretations here are of the story as is. I'm not saying that the game couldn't have been written in any way to introduce the player character in a more graceful fashion than outright telling you at the start "btw you're the Chosen One!" That trope been done to death, and I'd like to see Bethesda employ some more original storytelling in the future. It just so happens that in this game, they embraced the idea that you're special from the very beginning, and for better or worse, that's what starts you off on the main quest.
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"btw you're the Chosen One!"
Morrowind and Skyrim do the same exact thing. I'd argue that this isn't a fault with Oblivion because of that. Obviously the writers are just terrible at writing the beginning of their games.
Anyways, how else are you going to start things off? This is a fantasy game with gods, demons, etc. Being a 'chosen one' really isn't that far-fetched given the setting. How would you propose introducing the hero character in an Elder Scrolls game?
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Morrowind and Oblivion both use "chosen one" as a subversion to motivate player actions and get the plot going. Saddam seems to not realize this because he criticizes both games for the same thing, but the reason supporting characters don't seem all too concerned about your prophecized importance is because your status as a chosen one isn't important unless you make a name for yourself through your actions. It resonates with the games' open world structure; the pacing of the story and the growth of the player character is dictated by the player's decision to embark on the story. You become the hero by doing heroic actions, and in doing so you justify your beginning as a chosen one.
Of course, Skyrim doesn't use that, because it's shit. You have to be special and shout at things instead.
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"btw you're the Chosen One!"
Morrowind and Skyrim do the same exact thing. I'd argue that this isn't a fault with Oblivion because of that. Obviously the writers are just terrible at writing the beginning of their games.
Anyways, how else are you going to start things off? This is a fantasy game with gods, demons, etc. Being a 'chosen one' really isn't that far-fetched given the setting. How would you propose introducing the hero character in an Elder Scrolls game?
With Morrowind and Skyrim, your role as the chosen one is far more critical to the plot. You have a distinctive identity, a distinctive role in the story, and even a cool name. But in Oblivion, it feels tacked-on and unnecessary. A lot of that might have to do with the fact that in the end, Oblivion isn't really your story at all. Martin is the true hero; you're simply a supporting protagonist. That's not a bad thing in and of itself, but it's a bit silly to dress up a supporting role in talk of prophecy and predestined heroes and all that.
There are certainly other ways that the player character could be introduced to the story. In Oblivion, for example, the intro dungeon could have you actively helping the Emperor and his retinue in such a way that you prove your worth by the time you've made it through. Like, maybe as they went ahead, some falling rocks separated them from you and trapped them in an alcove, and then it's up to you to save them. That kind of thing. In this way, when the Emperor entrusts the Amulet to you at the end of the dungeon, it feels like an act of genuine, earned trust rather than a leap of faith based on a face seen in a dream.
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You're never a chosen one in Morrowind outside of what you prove yourself to be with your actions. You become central to the plot because you meet the conditions for being the chosen one, not necessarily because you are the chosen one.
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You're never a chosen one in Morrowind outside of what you prove yourself to be with your actions. You become central to the plot because you meet the conditions for being the chosen one, not necessarily because you are the chosen one.
That's actually why I specified it as "your role as the chosen one." It may not be the 100% confirmed truth that the player is the Nerevarine, but it's still the role that you fulfill throughout the course of the story. And yes, I do agree that Morrowind uses the trope far more cleverly than Skyrim, which of course plays it straight.
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"btw you're the Chosen One!"
Morrowind and Skyrim do the same exact thing. I'd argue that this isn't a fault with Oblivion because of that. Obviously the writers are just terrible at writing the beginning of their games.
Anyways, how else are you going to start things off? This is a fantasy game with gods, demons, etc. Being a 'chosen one' really isn't that far-fetched given the setting. How would you propose introducing the hero character in an Elder Scrolls game?
With Morrowind and Skyrim, your role as the chosen one is far more critical to the plot. You have a distinctive identity, a distinctive role in the story, and even a cool name. But in Oblivion, it feels tacked-on and unnecessary. A lot of that might have to do with the fact that in the end, Oblivion isn't really your story at all. Martin is the true hero; you're simply a supporting protagonist. That's not a bad thing in and of itself, but it's a bit silly to dress up a supporting role in talk of prophecy and predestined heroes and all that.
There are certainly other ways that the player character could be introduced to the story. In Oblivion, for example, the intro dungeon could have you actively helping the Emperor and his retinue in such a way that you prove your worth by the time you've made it through. Like, maybe as they went ahead, some falling rocks separated them from you and trapped them in an alcove, and then it's up to you to save them. That kind of thing. In this way, when the Emperor entrusts the Amulet to you at the end of the dungeon, it feels like an act of genuine, earned trust rather than a leap of faith based on a face seen in a dream.
This forces the player to help. Elder Scrolls is about choices and playing how you want. I don't think it would be a good idea to make the character save everyone in the first few minutes of the game, or at least it should give you the choice... "Save them? Leave them there and do your own thing?". Forcing you to be the good guy is kind of against the ES ethos.
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You're never a chosen one in Morrowind outside of what you prove yourself to be with your actions. You become central to the plot because you meet the conditions for being the chosen one, not necessarily because you are the chosen one.
That's actually why I specified it as "your role as the chosen one." It may not be the 100% confirmed truth that the player is the Nerevarine, but it's still the role that you fulfill throughout the course of the story. And yes, I do agree that Morrowind uses the trope far more cleverly than Skyrim, which of course plays it straight.
2-3 quests into the story..
"You're... Dragonborn! Try to shout! OMG You really are Dragonborn then!"
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"btw you're the Chosen One!"
Morrowind and Skyrim do the same exact thing. I'd argue that this isn't a fault with Oblivion because of that. Obviously the writers are just terrible at writing the beginning of their games.
Anyways, how else are you going to start things off? This is a fantasy game with gods, demons, etc. Being a 'chosen one' really isn't that far-fetched given the setting. How would you propose introducing the hero character in an Elder Scrolls game?
With Morrowind and Skyrim, your role as the chosen one is far more critical to the plot. You have a distinctive identity, a distinctive role in the story, and even a cool name. But in Oblivion, it feels tacked-on and unnecessary. A lot of that might have to do with the fact that in the end, Oblivion isn't really your story at all. Martin is the true hero; you're simply a supporting protagonist. That's not a bad thing in and of itself, but it's a bit silly to dress up a supporting role in talk of prophecy and predestined heroes and all that.
There are certainly other ways that the player character could be introduced to the story. In Oblivion, for example, the intro dungeon could have you actively helping the Emperor and his retinue in such a way that you prove your worth by the time you've made it through. Like, maybe as they went ahead, some falling rocks separated them from you and trapped them in an alcove, and then it's up to you to save them. That kind of thing. In this way, when the Emperor entrusts the Amulet to you at the end of the dungeon, it feels like an act of genuine, earned trust rather than a leap of faith based on a face seen in a dream.
This forces the player to help. Elder Scrolls is about choices and playing how you want. I don't think it would be a good idea to make the character save everyone in the first few minutes of the game, or at least it should give you the choice... "Save them? Leave them there and do your own thing?". Forcing you to be the good guy is kind of against the ES ethos.
You aren't given any choice beyond nodding enthusiastically and saying "Yes, sir!" to the Emperor in the introduction as it is. The sad fact is that it's pretty difficult to reconcile an evil player character with the main quest in any Bethesda game.
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You aren't given any choice beyond nodding enthusiastically and saying "Yes, sir!" to the Emperor in the introduction as it is. The sad fact is that it's pretty difficult to reconcile an evil player character with the main quest in any Bethesda game.
You're given many dialogue options during that portion of the game. Some of which imply that the character is tired of Uriel's BS or thinks that he's a phony seer.
After your exchange, Uriel gives a speech that pretty much says he has chosen you to save all of Cyrodiil from the jaws of Oblivion, but there are no dialogue options after that. The player is not forced to agree with Uriel during the course of the intro. At this point the player character could escape from the sewer and begin playing the game how s/he sees fit. There's no forcing you into anything. The rest of the game is completed at the player's discretion. The only thing the game is forcing you to do is play the game.
Regardless of what the story or npcs in the game say you are, you're not that unless you want to be. That's the glory of ES. Say you save Cyrodiil from the jaws of Oblivion. Your character is given many dialogue options throughout that adventure to roleplay whatever role you want. Even if you save Cyrodiil that doesn't mean you're the hero. You might be the hero to various NPCs in the game but they do not know the player's true intention and are therefore irrelevant. If you're playing a villain you can justify your actions by saying that your character wanted to save Cyrodiil because without Cyrodiil there would be no way to steal/murder/etc.
Like Rushy said earlier, what the characters in the game think of you is irrelevant. All that matters is the player's intention. If you felt that the game was forcing you to play the hero then maybe it's just because you're the one with the hero complex?
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You're given many dialogue options during that portion of the game. Some of which imply that the character is tired of Uriel's BS or thinks that he's a phony seer.
No, they really don't. You can say "I go my own way," right at the start, and later on you can tell the Emperor that you're not particularly religious. That's about all the defiance you're allowed.
After your exchange, Uriel gives a speech that pretty much says he has chosen you to save all of Cyrodiil from the jaws of Oblivion, but there are no dialogue options after that. The player is not forced to agree with Uriel during the course of the intro.
Accepting the Amulet from him seems to imply agreement, and I like I said above, your dialogue prior to that moment indicates that you're being very cooperative.
At this point the player character could escape from the sewer and begin playing the game how s/he sees fit. There's no forcing you into anything. The rest of the game is completed at the player's discretion. The only thing the game is forcing you to do is play the game.
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If you felt that the game was forcing you to play the hero then maybe it's just because you're the one with the hero complex?
I am aware of all this, and don't recall saying that you're forced to do anything in the game, at least outside of the tutorial.
Regardless of what the story or npcs in the game say you are, you're not that unless you want to be. That's the glory of ES. Say you save Cyrodiil from the jaws of Oblivion. Your character is given many dialogue options throughout that adventure to roleplay whatever role you want. Even if you save Cyrodiil that doesn't mean you're the hero. You might be the hero to various NPCs in the game but they do not know the player's true intention and are therefore irrelevant. If you're playing a villain you can justify your actions by saying that your character wanted to save Cyrodiil because without Cyrodiil there would be no way to steal/murder/etc.
Like Rushy said earlier, what the characters in the game think of you is irrelevant. All that matters is the player's intention.
This isn't wrong, per se, but the problem is that you're putting the burden of roleplay almost entirely on the player's shoulders. The player's mindset is important, of course, but at the same time, Bethesda should have made a better effort to have their main quest be more accessible to roleplayers outside of the 100% lawful good persuasion. The game that handled that the best was, I have to admit, Morrowind. It's another reason why traditional high fantasy isn't a good fit for TES.
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Beinhg evil in fallout makes sense mostly
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Okay, everyone. Brace yourselves for some scholarly analysis.
I made a mistake in the above posts by referring to "lawful" good. It makes sense that the law vs. chaos axis of alignment exists in tabletop RPGs, where one's imagination obviously forms a large part of the setting, but video games are different, and in the case of Morrowind and Skyrim, that kind of alignment isn't left up to you. It's very much ingrained in the setting. Morrowind is a land of law, and Skyrim is a land of chaos. This is also reflected in the gameplay. Almost all of the little quirks of the two games can be explained by the alignment it adheres to.
Law and order are everywhere in Morrowind. The first part of the main quest has you reporting to a clear authority figure, Caius, who represents an even bigger authority, the Empire. He immediately puts you to work doing seemingly mundane tasks gathering information on local legends without even telling you that you might be the Nerevarine until you're a few quests in. If you're anything like me, you might be calling this main quest things like, "stupid," or "undermining," or "boring as tar," but then you're missing the point, just like I was. The Blades are a formal organization with a strict hierarchy and rank structure that you need to ascend before Caius is going to stop treating you like a rookie and start giving you information that isn't purely need-to-know. And the rest of the main quest is quite similar. Your eventual goal is to become the Hortator, a political position recognized by the Great Houses and Ashlander tribes, so whether you choose to be good or evil, your role as the protagonist is inherently lawful.
The same applies to all the other joinable factions in the game. Remember, there's about a dozen of them, and even more if we count the ones that you can't join. Another reflection of the general lawfulness of life in Morrowind. The Morag Tong in particular deserves some special attention. Provided they follow all the regulations and fill out the proper paperwork, murder-for-hire is perfectly legal for them. And even the villain, Dagoth Ur, is lawful evil. He sits politely in his own little region of the map and waits for you to come visit him - okay, granted, the Tribunal are keeping him contained there, but even the agents that he has on the outside aren't actively disrupting life in Morrowind, the burden is on you to actively go and confront them. And when you do meet Dagoth Ur, he reveals himself to be fairly polite and respectful in demeanor, as well as willing to have a reasoned discussion with you prior to your battle commencing.
In Skyrim, everything is reversed, and chaos rules the day. This part is particularly relevant for those of you who complain about Skyrim being dumbed-down, because you're just not seeing the genius behind it all. The classless leveling system, the combat that relies more on bashing people in the face with shields than intricate dice-rolling mechanics, the conversation that doesn't involve long lists of keywords you need to sort through - it's all a reflection of the chaos of the time. Look at the guilds. No longer are they orderly pyramid-style hierarchies, but loosely-organized groups with leaders who have very ad hoc management styles.
The main quest and setting reflect this as well. Skyrim has already been torn apart by civil war, and now dragons are wrecking it even further. There is no central authority for you to report to throughout the main quest (hence bounties only applying in the holds where you earned them), and so, while the Blades and Greybeards back you up to a degree, you're largely a chaotic hero, doing what needs to be done without any "official" orders. And just as you are chaotic, so too, are your foes. The dragons fly everywhere and attack everyone and everything. They have no plans, no marching orders, nothing beyond causing destruction. People criticize Alduin for not being particularly memorable as a villain or having any kind of interesting plan or motivation. Well, of course he doesn't. He's chaotic evil, and destroying the world is a perfect fit for that.
Bear in mind that I'm not saying that one of these alignments is or isn't better than the other, or that one of these games does or doesn't realize its chosen alignment better than the other. All I'm saying here is that they complete one another. Morrowind shows Tamriel at its most lawful, and Skyrim shows it at its most chaotic, but it's still the same Tamriel. Taken together, these two games form a masterpiece of thematic contrast, and that is the best way to appreciate what Bethesda has wrought in its genius. But I'm sure that some of you are now saying, "Well, that's all well and good, Saddam, but how do you know it's intentional on their behalf?" I do not know that it is, I admit. I might just be reading way, way too much into a couple of video games. But then again, consider the wise words of Vivec, in his fourth sermon (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:36_Lessons_of_Vivec,_Sermon_4):
A troupe of spirits called the Lobbyists for the Coincidence Guild appeared. Vivec understood the challenge immediately and said:
'The popular notion of God kills happenstance.'
The head of the Lobbyists, whose name is forgotten, tried to defend the concept's existence. He said, 'Saying something at the same time can be magical.'
Vivec knew that to retain his divinity that he must make a strong argument against luck. He said:
'Is not the sudden revelation of corresponding conditions and disparate elements that gel at the moment of the coincidence one of the prerequisites to being, in fact, coincidental? Synchronicity comes out of repeated coincidences at the lowest level. Further examination shows it is the utter power of the sheer number of coincidences that leads one to the idea that synchronicity is guided by something more than chance. Therefore, synchronicity ends up invalidating the concept of the coincidental, even though they are the symptomatic signs that bring it to the surface.'
Thus was coincidence destroyed in the land of the Velothi.
Beautifully stated. May the CHIM be with you.
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There was once an English teacher who adored a great poet by the name of Frederick Rowbotham. The English teacher read absolutely all of his works, some very famous, some barely known to anyone. One day, the English teacher heard of a convention downtown, and the great Fred Rowbotham would be there to comment on his works and sign copies. The English teacher squealed with delight after learning this, and hurried her way directly to the convention.
"Oh I simply adore your great poem, Outside Window, Mr. Rowbotham. I can feel the emotion as you describe the whispering pines and flowing stream. Surely, this poem is the best representation of quiet yet strong love flowing elegantly before your eyes!"
"Oh, that poem?" Fred replied, "I was just describing what was out my window that day while I ate breakfast."
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And that english teacher's name was Albert Einstein
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My latest post was mocking you, Saddam. Are you not going to retort?
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http://www.pcgamer.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-removes-six-month-subs-f2p-rumours-abound/?ns_campaign=article-feed&ns_mchannel=ref&ns_source=steam&ns_linkname=0&ns_fee=0
"F2P rumours abound"
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If Rowbotham's ode to looking out his window was sublime and moving, then it doesn't matter that he personally held such a casual attitude towards it. Likewise, the thematic depth of the contrast between Morrowind and Skyrim is not diminished simply because it may not have been intended ahead of time. They are law and chaos. Anu and Padomay. The interplay is remarkable.
That being said, for the next game, I'd like a bit more lawfulness to be brought back. Particularly the attributes.
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If Rowbotham's ode to looking out his window was sublime and moving, then it doesn't matter that he personally held such a casual attitude towards it. Likewise, the thematic depth of the contrast between Morrowind and Skyrim is not diminished simply because it may not have been intended ahead of time. They are law and chaos. Anu and Padomay. The interplay is remarkable.
That being said, for the next game, I'd like a bit more lawfulness to be brought back. Particularly the attributes.
The point is that the depth is invented by the reader, not the creator. Skyrim and Morrowang mean whatever you, Saddam, wish to believe they mean. They were ultimately created to be open world video games, nothing more, nothing less.
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I think he knows that. Anyway, I enjoyed reading that. I particularly liked it because you ignored Oblivion completely.
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I think he knows that.
You give Saddam too much credit.
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I do know that. I'm simply offering an alternative perspective for the people who look at Skyrim and go "OMG TOTALLY DUMBED DOWN THEY MUST BE MARKETING THE GAME TO LITTLE KIDS NOW!"
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I do know that. I'm simply offering an alternative perspective for the people who look at Skyrim and go "OMG TOTALLY DUMBED DOWN THEY MUST BE MARKETING THE GAME TO LITTLE KIDS NOW!"
No, you didn't. You offered some creative licensing for what really is a dumbed-down game. It's like you want the game to be good so badly, you literally change what it means to be a good game. Playing a bad game and then retroactively saying "no no guys, this is a good thing" is called cognitive dissonance.
What I really don't understand is why you're just so obsessed with Elder Scrolls.
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What I really don't understand is why you're just so obsessed with Elder Scrolls.
What I don't understand is why somebody who hasn't played the games would post in this thread more than almost anyone else.
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It's all my fault. I gave him ideas and he horribly misinterpreted them.
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No, you didn't. You offered some creative licensing for what really is a dumbed-down game. It's like you want the game to be good so badly, you literally change what it means to be a good game. Playing a bad game and then retroactively saying "no no guys, this is a good thing" is called cognitive dissonance.
Weren't you saying earlier that Skyrim was the best of the series?
What I really don't understand is why you're just so obsessed with Elder Scrolls.
I'm not, really. Most of my posting here is me just being bored and writing about whatever random thing comes into my head. If we had a more active forum, I'd be more busy with other threads.
It's all my fault. I gave him ideas and he horribly misinterpreted them.
This is true.
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Weren't you saying earlier that Skyrim was the best of the series?
I don't think anyone has said that.
And if they did they were trolling and should be ignored. No Skyrim praise allowed in this thread.
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1. Skyrim
2. Oblivion
3. Morrowind
4. Daggerfall
5. Arena
Because this is the order in which the graphics are getting worse.
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I do know that. I'm simply offering an alternative perspective for the people who look at Skyrim and go "OMG TOTALLY DUMBED DOWN THEY MUST BE MARKETING THE GAME TO LITTLE KIDS NOW!"
No, you didn't. You offered some creative licensing for what really is a dumbed-down game.
So, what you're saying is that he's offering an alternate perspective?
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1. Skyrim
2. Oblivion
3. Morrowind
4. Daggerfall
5. Arena
Because this is the order in which the graphics are getting worse.
Skyrim is the best of the series.
So, what you're saying is that he's offering an alternate perspective?
More like he made up a reason as to why the game is the way that it is rather than accept Bethesda just isn't all that great. It's like saying "I don't know why it rains, therefore the Rain Spirit makes it rain!" It isn't an alternate perspective, it's bullshit.
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Skyrim is the best of the series.
How many ES games have you played, Rushy? Also, how much time have you spent with each?
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How many ES games have you played, Rushy? Also, how much time have you spent with each?
Fifth amendment.
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(http://i.imgur.com/dMW8tZW.jpg)
epically rekked
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(img)
epically rekked
I know you think having more things is better, but the quality of those things counts. For example, Star Citizen will always be better than E:D, regardless of E:D's 400 billion systems.
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Daggerfall has more towns, NPCs, dungeons, etc. It has infinite replayability.
Is Daggerfall the best game ever made, Pp2?
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Is the creator of that image seriously counting each entrance to each of the cantons/palace as a separate building? That's even more ridiculous than his claim that those 330 walking information kiosks are "unique characters."
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you guys :(
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you guys :(
You are making a mockery of these forums with your behavior. You are a complete disgrace.
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To be fair, though, Morrowind definitely does have the best cities of the series. Also:
More like he made up a reason as to why the game is the way that it is rather than accept Bethesda just isn't all that great. It's like saying "I don't know why it rains, therefore the Rain Spirit makes it rain!" It isn't an alternate perspective, it's bullshit.
Coming up with absurd in-game explanations for Bethesda's stupidity has been a staple of the series since before Arena was even released. For example, the title of that game. Speaking of which, I'm always amused whenever I see Tamriel referred to as "the Arena" in any in-game text. It's so cheesy and unconvincing, but I guess one or two of the writers still want to sell us on that retcon.
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Arena was originally an arena combat game, yes, but the developers pretty quickly adapted the name to be synonymous with Tamriel. It isn't really a retcon unless you consider every change made to a game before it's released to be a retcon.
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(http://i.imgur.com/uJ6O64X.jpg)
lms if you agree
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(http://i.imgur.com/oao5f7K.png)
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(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/elderscrolls/images/e/e5/TESIII_Fargoth.png)
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(http://25.media.tumblr.com/8207e6d8925662bd996004e2ecebc7d0/tumblr_mypij0A19k1t2juc9o2_1280.jpg)
How I felt after Oblivion.
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I never get tired of seeing the faces these things can spit out.
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Quit spamming the thread, PP. Multiple images can go in one post.
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Quit spamming the thread, PP. Multiple images can go in one post.
literally memberating
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literally memberating
Probably wouldn't be necessary if certain mods did anything other than move arguments they happen to not like.
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literally memberating
Probably wouldn't be necessary if certain mods did anything other than move arguments they happen to not like.
>still crying about it
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Arena was originally an arena combat game, yes, but the developers pretty quickly adapted the name to be synonymous with Tamriel. It isn't really a retcon unless you consider every change made to a game before it's released to be a retcon.
I don't know, they didn't adapt it quickly enough to design some box art that might actually seem representative of the game:
(http://images.uesp.net/6/69/NA_Arena_BoxArt.jpg)
That lady's armor, or lack thereof, is great. I think GTA games are marketed more tastefully than this.
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I don't see how that's relevant.
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That game is clearly marketed as a game about fighting in an Arena with scantily clad warrior princess characters.
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Meet the Khajiit in Arena
(http://i.imgur.com/aW9Piaz.png)
Lore's broken.
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Meet the Khajiit in Arena
(http://i.imgur.com/aW9Piaz.png)
Lore's broken.
The Ohmes is the most Mer-like Khajiit. They are shorter than a Bosmer and have similar pointed ears. Unlike other Khajiit they have no fur, no tail, and no naturally occurring distinguishable Khajiit feature. To distinguish themselves from Mer, the Ohmes usually paint their faces with 'catlike' war paint.
The Ohmes were a common sight across Tamriel before the end of the 4th century of the 3rd Era. After this time period, they became a rare sight outside of Elsweyr. It is possible they returned to their homeland en masse.
The Ohmes are one of seventeen confirmed breeds of Khajiit, and each breed is born due to the influences of Nirn's two moons, Masser and Secunda.
The former is Nirn's largest moon, and the main influencing force on Khajiit breeds. Depending on Masser's lunar lattice, the Khajiit will fall under one major appearance and physiology out of four possibilities. These are as follows:
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Dirty retcon.
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Having now completed Shivering Isles, I have some mixed feelings on it. The setting is fantastic, to start with. The theme of duality that's always present is a clever little feature, like with Mania and Dementia, Bliss and Crucible, the Golden Saints and Dark Seducers, etc. The new creatures and plants are creative, the eccentric characters are a lot of fun, and Sheogorath himself is hilarious, as he always is.
What drags the add-on down, however, is the main quest. It really, really sucks. It makes very little use of the excellent overworld, instead sending you on a series of very long, very tedious dungeon crawls, almost always to do something that feels mundane and unfulfilling, like fetch a MacGuffin or flip some magical switch. Exactly how these boring quests actually relate to the eventual goal of stopping the Greymarch are handwaved away with vague explanations, which hurts player motivation and the feeling that you're doing worthwhile things and making real progress. There are a few decent quests there, I'll grant, like the one where you have to either kill some unwelcome adventurers or else drive them insane, but for the most part, they're just busy work. Huge disappointment.
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Did you attack Sheogorath? Totally worth it.
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Sheogorath himself is hilarious, as he always is.
holds up spork
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Did you attack Sheogorath? Totally worth it.
Do this.
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Sheogorath himself is hilarious, as he always is.
holds up Runciple spoon
Fork of horpulation fucking nooob.
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Dirty retcon.
I'm waiting for them to add the other Khajiit breeds to TESO. At least as NPC's, since there's 16 of them plus The Mane (who actually is in the game, but looks like a regular Cathay). But I get the feeling the devs are too lazy and it's never going to happen.
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Did you attack Sheogorath? Totally worth it.
Yes. It's very amusing.
I'm waiting for them to add the other Khajiit breeds to TESO. At least as NPC's, since there's 16 of them plus The Mane (who actually is in the game, but looks like a regular Cathay). But I get the feeling the devs are too lazy and it's never going to happen.
The Khajiit in TESO are Suthay-raht, not Cathay. Also, the devs have said that they're planning on adding bigger senches as steeds at some point.
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The Khajiit in TESO are Suthay-raht, not Cathay.
Incorrect. They're definitely Cathay, look at their legs. The ones in Morrowind are Suthay-raht (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Suthay-raht). Walking on their toes like real cats. The ones in TESO walk flat on their feet just like the ones in Oblivion and Skyrim. i.e. Cathay (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Cathay).
Although The Elder Scrolls Wiki says this:
All player-character Khajiit in The Elder Scrolls Online will be Suthay-raht at launch.
That's obviously wrong.
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ZeniMax were the ones who said that originally, but then again, they were also the ones who apparently forgot that Reaper's March is in Elsweyr, and repeated the dumb "transcription error"* thing, all contrary to what was actually in the game. I suppose the thought of them simply forgetting which breed was actually in the game is preferable to them fucking up how the Suthay-raht are supposed to look.
*Regarding that little snafu, I have a new theory. What if all the details contradicting the "transcription error" account were actually added into the game after the negative reaction that lore-minded fans had to the original reveal? That would make the whole issue regarding Cyrodiil and its jungles a triple retcon. Has that ever even happened before in fiction?
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Has that ever even happened before in fiction?
I can think of one franchise that has had multiple retcons, doubles, triples, even quadruples. Doctor Who.
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http://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/2rkdfs/about_eso_can_it_fit_in_canon_do_you_accept_it_as/
I'm constantly surprised in how good it is.
And of course it's lore. Everything is lore.
Aha! It's official! Cockbird endorses TESO!
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I can think of one franchise that has had multiple retcons, doubles, triples, even quadruples. Doctor Who.
Doctor Who is made up as it goes along. Elder Scrolls has plenty of pre-built lore for devs to work from, they just screw up quite a bit of it.
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Has that ever even happened before in fiction?
I can think of one franchise that has had multiple retcons, doubles, triples, even quadruples. Doctor Who.
Doctor Who has time-travel as a regular feature.
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Has that ever even happened before in fiction?
I can think of one franchise that has had multiple retcons, doubles, triples, even quadruples. Doctor Who.
Doctor Who has time-travel as a regular feature.
Yes, but there are legitimate retcons (http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Doctor_Who_television_discontinuity_and_plot_holes/Major_inconsistencies_and_retcons) outside of that. I'm not counting anything that happens via time travel. Just stuff that was said to be the case but was later changed because of writer incompetence and/or just general laziness. But Rushy is kinda right, they do make it up as they go along mostly because of the time travel involved.
Besides, there is time travel in Eldar Scralls lore too.
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Sheogorath himself is hilarious, as he always is.
holds up Runciple spoon
Fork of horpulation fucking nooob.
Do you mean the Fork of Horripilation? >2015 >being this nooby
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(http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lm2vee2fYM1qkf4s8o1_500.gif)
(http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lm2vn81sG21qkf4s8o1_500.gif)
(http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lm2w2uPAA11qkf4s8o1_500.gif)
No, this doesn't mean anything. I just wanted to post it.
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If you read Cicero's journal in Skyrim it talks about him acting like an adoring fan of the Grand Champion only to murder him in a forest.
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He provided me with a torch collection
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I used to like Bethesda, but after reading the internet they seem sort of lazy and self-absorbed.
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I used to like Bethesda like you, but then I took le arrow to the kneeme
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Hey, guys, who wants to see more wonky Kirkbridean lore that made it into TESO?
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Exegesis_of_Merid-Nunda
This ties into a theory of Kirkbride's that there was a group of divine beings called the Magna Ge that fled Nirn soon after it was created. They poked holes in Oblivion in their haste to get through it, forming tiny little portals that the light of Aetherius shines through. Stars, in other words. The Daedric Prince Meridia was originally one of them, but they cast her out for assorting with Daedra, evidently. This is why Meridia is heavily associated with light. Anyway, aside from a brief reference to the Magna Ge in the Commentaries on the Mysterium Xarxes, none of this seems to have been mentioned in the games before. Instead, it all comes from this "fanfic," for lack of a better word, that Croakbeard wrote on his own time:
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/imperial-census-daedra-lords
tl;dr: Star children are canon now.
The hammer finally drops:
http://www.pcgamer.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-drops-subscription/
All right, PP, you've already bought the game, you have no excuse to not resume playing it in March. As for the rest of you, uh, try getting it if it's on sale or whatever.
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http://www.pcgamer.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-drops-subscription/
First sign of a failing MMO. Next step is pay-to-win and microtransactions. That will happen in a month or two. Mark my words.
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I don't know, GW2 seems to be doing just fine with its B2W model.
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But GW2 never had a subscription. Isn't this sort of a punch to the gut of everyone who paid $15 a month for this mess of a game?
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My gut doesn't hurt.
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My gut doesn't hurt.
Of course not, all punches to your gut bounce harmlessly off your wobbly belly.
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My gut doesn't hurt.
Of course not, all punches to your gut bounce harmlessly off your wobbly belly.
Punches to the gut actually heal him.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KETK0teIWEM
Clockwork City! Vivec and Sotha Sil! Hooray!
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Dedicated fans will have the option of ponying up for "ESO Plus" memberships. Available in 30, 90, and 180-day durations, these will offer access to all future DLC, which Bethesda said will consist of "game packs with optional adventure content," like zones and quests. Access to these optional areas will be lost if and when your membership expires, but any items or rewards earned from those areas will be kept.
ESO Plus memberships will also provide "character progression bonuses," and an allotment of crowns, the new in-game currency that will be used to purchase "convenience and customization items" like pets and mounts, as well as the aforementioned DLC, which will be available separately from ESO Plus memberships on an a-la-carte basis.
Now I will never play this game.
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What a shit idea. Lifting ideas direct from Runescape circa 2004? Nice.
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What a shit idea. Lifting ideas direct from Runescape circa 2004? Nice.
That's not true, you lose access to member's rewards if you stop paying in Runescape. Here, you still get to keep them. That's totally different, man.
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It specifically says you lose access to those zones if your membership ends. This was the case with Runescape years ago, you would get access to half the map and all of the features located there for $5/m.
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It specifically says you lose access to those zones if your membership ends. This was the case with Runescape years ago, you would get access to half the map and all of the features located there for $5/m.
Lose access to the zones, but not the items. COMPLETELY DIFFERENT
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It specifically says you lose access to those zones if your membership ends. This was the case with Runescape years ago, you would get access to half the map and all of the features located there for $5/m.
But you don't lose access to the rewards, which is what Rushy was talking about. Also, the members in RuneScape didn't get access to half the map, they got access to about two thirds, maybe three quarters of the map. Although some of those areas also required the completion of certain quests to access.
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Technically you didn't lose the rewards in Runescape either. You wouldn't be able to use them though ;)
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The Khajiit in Arena are of the Ohmes (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ohmes) breed, and in Daggerfall they're Ohmes-raht (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ohmes-raht). The lore checks out!
All other TES games, however, like to sweep that lore under the rug. Mostly because it is disturbing to think about a mountain lion birthing what is clearly a human child and having such a thing based on the phase of the moon.
Update on this:
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/01/23/loremasters-archive-trail-and-tide
“Many have heard the stories that a Khajiit's form is determined by the cycle of the moons. Would it then be possible for an Alfiq (housecat sized Khajiit) to give birth to a Senche-Raht battlecat, said to be as tall as two Altmer? – TheHumanFloyd
Moon Bishop Hunal says, “Ah, hairless ones. What imaginations they have! The simple answer is yes; it is absolutely true that the ja-Kha’jay determines a Khajiit’s furstock, or ‘breed,’ as some say. However, the extent to which we catfolk vary in size has been exaggerated in certain Imperial sources. During the Reman Conquests, when the Cyrodiils were seeking justification for invasion of the Khajiiti kingdoms, we were tagged with the epithet ‘beast-men,’ and propaganda was spread emphasizing our similarities to our cousins of lesser sentience. For what could be wrong with liberating a fertile land such as ours from lowly ‘beast-men’? Indeed, curious one, there are truly seventeen distinct furstocks of Khajiiti, but do not be taken in by the exaggerations of Imperial propaganda.”
This is their way of saying we won't get to see any of the gigantic Khajiit breeds described in the lore. :(
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ESO is terrible. Skyrim was 7/10.
Oblivion was 9/10.
Oblivion 2 please
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Generic LotR Medieval European Fantasy With Potato Faces 2 please.
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Oblivion was 9/10.
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Potato Faces
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We've already been over this. All of the Elder Scrolls series is generic fantasy, so poking at Oblivion for being generic fantasy is moot. Potato faces, however, is a legitimate criticism.
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We've already been over this. All of the Elder Scrolls series is generic fantasy, so poking at Oblivion for being generic fantasy is moot.
I think Saddam wants you to explain it again.
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We've already been over this. All of the Elder Scrolls series is generic fantasy, so poking at Oblivion for being generic fantasy is moot. Potato faces, however, is a legitimate criticism.
Actually and technically, all faces are potato faces.
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Actually and technically, all faces are potato faces.
I am actually and technically not a potato.
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I would explain why your wrong but you're to moot to understand.
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I would explain why your wrong but you're to moot to understand.
Ur jus mad cause u jus got #rekt son. sit yo ass down
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAPUVs1asFg
The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/
Lots of P2W bullshit with these "crowns," but I suppose it's an inevitable result of dropping the sub. I hope they hurry up with these DLC packs, too.
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So, I've decided to set this down is metaphorical stone, to act as a truthful, hopefully unbiased comparison of the three most recent Elder Scrolls games in order to help people such as myself to learn more about the games before trying them and to know key difference and similarities between them.
My short analysis will focus on five key areas (which may overlap in places): World - Environment, Scale and Quality NPCs and Creatures - Enemies and NPC interactions/personality Quests - Main Quests, Guilds and Side Quests Immersion - Impact on World, Depth, Role-playing potential and Realism Misc - Magic, Skills, Accessibility and Items
I will do this by area of analysis, not by game, so that people interested in a specific area can compare more easily.
So. here goes:
World
Morrowind - Definitely the most alien and unique world. Full of towering mushrooms, volcanic badlands, rolling plains and fair sized cities. Cities of a decent size but sometimes (excluding Vivec) feel slightly too small. World feels unique in different regions, Ashlands of the north feel a world away from the swamps of the South. Dungeons similar enough to notice but unique enough to enjoy. There is a definite sense of wonder and urge to explore.
Oblivion - A much more generic fantasy setting (Castles, greenery etc) World not as alien or varied as Morrowind with most of the map being either green forest of green/yellow plains. Cities feel large and believable and are numerous. Many more towns and villages than Morrowind or Skyrim. Dungeons are ok, but definitely feel similar after only a few. Especially true with the fort ruins of the game. Sense of wonder and urge to explore not as strong. (That may be personal, as Cyrodiil looks alot like Britain, my home)
Skyrim - World is more mysterious than Oblivion but not Morrowind. Cites are smaller than expected but compensate in other areas. Snow areas aren't particularly interesting but other areas like the marshes around Morthal and volcanic springs of Eastmarch make the world feel satisfyingly varied. Dungeons feel much more unique than Oblivion's or Morrwoind's, especially since many more dungeon designers were used than in previous games. World invites exploration and many places genuinely astonish you.
NPCs and Creatures
Morrowind - Creatures are weird and wonderful, but human enemies are bland and boring. Much more fauna variety than other games. There are many more NPCs who can discuss a wide range of topics and conversation pays off, but almost all NPCs provide identical responses and very few NPCs in the world have any personality whatsoever. Cliff racers make me want to tear my face off.
Oblivion - Enemies tend to repeat more often but they are still reasonably interesting. More NPCs have character and personality but a very large number still feel like simple filler material. Fewer topic to discuss, with fewer NPCs willing to discuss them, but dialogue changes between NPCs much more often than in Morrowind.
Skyrim - Enemies have a good balance between variety and interest. Dragons are cool to behold, but fights with them become somewhat repetitive after a few hours. NPCs have fewer topics to discuss but almost every named NPC has a personality, allegiance or story to discover. Dialogue is quality over quantity.
Quests
Morrowind - Main quest is enthralling and of the perfect length (long enough to be invested, not long enough to get bored). Uniting tribes and houses feels rewarding and fun. DLC main quests often start off slowly and improve later on, especially Tribunal. Guilds are more realistic than other games. Guild quests consist of normal jobs, not a story, in which you ascend ranks by completing real jobs, much more believable and rewarding. There are more than double the number of guilds, though joining one can lock out another. Side quests are strong, with a wide variety of objectives and styles.
Oblivion - Main quest tedious and boring. Knights of the Nine feels like a typical 'knight in shining armour' ordeal with an Elder Scrolls twist, fun nonetheless. Shivering Isles is a wonderfully mad and varied place, but quests are still mostly fetch this or fetch that, but interesting environment and enemies make up for it. Guild quests blend good story and uniqueness with sense of progression and realism - arguably best guilds in the series. Side quests are a mixed bag, some excellent (the painting one especially) and others horrifically boring.
Skyrim - Main Quest reasonably fun and rewarding (Dragon shouts FTW) and does'nt last too long. Dawnguard is ok, but not of perticular note. Dragonborn has interesting themes but main story is awfully short. Guild quests are fun but are very short, you beocme leader very easily and any play style completes and story (Heavy armoured axe wielder as Archmage). Civil war is fun for battles and conflict but not very deep or unique. Side quests flow naturally and come in a wide variety. Radient quests add infinite jobs in over a dozen differnet themes (Thieving, assasination, animal controls etc) but get repititive after a while.
Immersion
Morrowind - Beleivable and changeable world. Joining one faction can lock off others (Joining one Great House means you can't join another. Books and dialogue are expansive and add huge depth and realism. NPCs can hate or love you depending on your actions. Who you kill or spare can drastically change a faction or person's view of you. Role-playing is somewhat restricted to adventurers and guild members. Much more realistic with consequences, limitations and rewards for everything you do.
Oblivion - NPCs treat you slightly differently depending on their opinion of you, but not on Morrowind's scale. Faction membership has little impact on the world aside from changing Infamy (which doesn't really do much). However, completing main quest makes oyu a hero to the people and they will treat you accordingly. Role-playing expands to allow a wider range of choices and themes.
Skyrim - Few consequences or restriction are placed on the player. The only times joining one faction alienates another is Imperial vs Stormcloak (which are very similar anyway) and Blades vs Greybeards (which can be completely ignored). NPCs will treat you slightly differently under certain circumstances but these are usually the result of a direct quest. Aside from the odd guard, no one cares that you saved the world from Alduin and people still talk down to you. Role play is superior with many more things like farming, mining, cooking, smithing and wood chopping allowing more choice for role-play builds.
Misc
Morrowind - Game is very much old-school, can scare off the more 'casual gamer'. More skills but you never feel truly unique as a character. Magic is varied and useful with a huge variety of non-combat and combat spells. Many more armour slots allow greater character customisation. Wider variety of weapon types is also available. Combat is stats based and awkward. Combat starts off hard but becomes incredibly easy later on. Stealth almost non-existant and point-blank misses are frustrating.
Oblivion - Game much more streamlined than Morrowind but looses it's charm. Uses quest markers rather than Morrowind's directions. Much more "pick up and enjoy" than Morrowind's "pick up and get killed by rat". Magic is not a viable option without a staff or strong armour (I've been informed that this isn't that case at higher levels, so ignore my ramblings). Spells are decent and spell-crafting just as good if not better than Morrowind. Enemies level with you and get the best weapons and armour, making levelling up pointless. Stealth is slightly better but bows are underpowered. Combat is based on physical accuracy not stats making it much more fun.
Skyrim - Even more smooth than Oblivion, using quest markers is still a controversial topic. Can be picked up and played like Oblivion but getting the most out of the game comes from true investment. Magic is much more viable and believable but spell-crafting no longer available. Dragon shouts are a brilliant addition and are well balanced. Levelling is based on perks allowing characters to have abilities and specialisations rather than Morrowind and Oblivions linear "more power!!!!!!" style of skills. Enemies level well, with weaker ones still appearing at lower levels. Combat improved and refined on Oblivion.
That was a brief summary of the main areas of importance but there's still so much more. Now, there'll be many asking "Well, that's well and good, but which is the best?!". Truthfully, it depends what you want.
Morrowind is much more hardcore and challenging and best for players already seasoned in the Elder Scrolls. Consequences, limitations and reputation aren't the best things for the light-hearted. But, for those who get past the 12 year old graphics and long-retired RPG mechanics, you will find an amazing game. I only started playing about a month ago but is is undoubtedly among my top 10 games ever. It's just that good. In my opinion, Morrowind is the perfect example of the old favourite: "Good graphics don't make good games".
Oblivion is somewhere in the middle and an acceptable starting point for series newbies. Whilst it is rough around the edges, it is still a great game. It's tone is much more comical and many quests (and of course the Shivering Isles) reflect its somewhat wacky nature. In my opinion, Oblivion is the weakest of the three, but still a great game. For someone like me, who lives in a country built on knights, castles and rolling green plains, Oblivion doesn't feel like an adventure on the scale of Skyrim or Morrowind. But, that's just me. For other people, Oblivion still holds some of the most enjoyable and beloved quests and locales in modern RPG history.
Finally, Skyrim. The most recent of the series. I'll say now that it is, still, my all time favourite game. But I'll try to keep the bias of a 1000 hours of game-time out of the veridct. Whilst not as hardcore as Morrowind or even Oblivion, Skyrim is still an excellent game. It does get bashed alot by long-term Elder Scrolls fans for being "dumbed down" but I simply don't agree and it's still as vast, fun and enjoyable as any of its predecessors. I'd recommend it as a starting point for newbies to the Elder Scrolls but I'd highly reccommend trying the others later on once you're used to it.
So, there we are. My attempt at a summary along the lines of what I spent ages looking for. Just to clarify, I love all of these games. The past month has been one of the most enjoyable of my gaming life and I'd recommend Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim to everyone, newbies and veterans alike.
If anyone would like me to expand further on these points then say so, I'd gladly do so in comments.
Can I also give a special mention to r/Morrowind for all the help, answers and responses from my posts when I started and also for giving me tips and help throughout my adventure. Azura bless you, Outlanders.
Also, to r/Oblivion who helped me kick my meta-gaming habits of main quest-DLC-guilds and allowed me to truly appreciate the brilliance of Oblivion. In a way, you're kindness has made me somewhat of an Adoring Fan...
Morrowind is hands down the best video game I have ever played and honestly I dont think a better game will ever come out, unless sometime in the future virtual reality morrowind is released. The sense of awe I experiences when I first saw this game was unbelievable. I had not seen a game like it at the time. The game was an enormous playground that was ready to be explored to the nth degree. You never knew what cazy armor or weapons you would find on your next journey through a dungeon. Skyrim basically gave you all the daedric artifacts, there was no challenge at all. The sense of satisfaction when completing a daedric quest without any help that was just amazing. I also loved how the journal worked in morrowind. I liked how vague it was and it actually made you think about where you had to go and what to do. Like the quest where it said go to the point between two hills in the north when the sun is setting. That could be almost anywhere and finally finding it was amazing. It didnt put an arrow on the map that told you exactly where to go. I hate all the handholding that oblivion and skyrim did. Exploring was natural to the world of morrowind and there was no instant travel from any location which forced you to walk places and stumble across dungeons with potentially the best weapon in the game. The story was also very epic. Becoming the Nereverine and Hortator was really awsome and I actually felt like an important person. Some of the quests pissed me off like the one where you had to dress the chick up and escort her. All in all though the story was very good and the DLC or whatever it was called back then made it even better. The only bad thing I can think of about this game is the graphics which now are horrendous, but hey it came out forever ago and at the time they were pretty good. I am sad that most people in future generations will never get to experience the masterpiece that is morrowind.
I understand that there are different genres of game but quite frankly I dont care. This game is just way too good and nothing even comes close.
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8/10 pasta, could use more line breaks for readability
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8/10 pasta, could use more line breaks for readability
lol you read it?
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Oblivion is the best Elder Scrolls game because the faces look funny hurr durr this is literally what I believe
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How is this happening
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Oblivion - Many more towns and villages than Morrowind or Skyrim.
Incorrect. Morrowind has the most settlements.
Morrowind - Much more fauna variety than other games.
Incorrect. As I stated earlier in the thread, Morrowind and Skyrim are about equal here.
Morrowind - Side quests are strong, with a wide variety of objectives and styles.
I don't think I agree. The side quests that I played involved little more than fetching items from dungeons, fighting bandits, and delivering messages to people in other cities. To be fair, though, I didn't do too many of them. The Morrofans here might dispute my description.
Sense of wonder and urge to explore not as strong. (That may be personal, as Cyrodiil looks alot like Britain, my home)...[F]or someone like me, who lives in a country built on knights, castles and rolling green plains, Oblivion doesn't feel like an adventure on the scale of Skyrim or Morrowind. But, that's just me.
Every fantasy fan in the world is going to be familiar with the typical medieval European fantasy setting. It's hardly something unique to British people.
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How is this happening
lol he doesn't see it
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Is TESO free to play yet?
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Is TESO free to play yet?
March 17th.
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Hmm, since 30 days comes with the game, I could technically buy it now and just ride into the free to play time with maybe a three day hiatus.
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You could, but why would you want to play an MMO filled with micro-transactions and pay-to-win incentives?
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You could, but why would you want to play an MMO filled with micro-transactions and pay-to-win incentives?
I do PvE and am therefore immune to "pay-to-win" scenarios. I never compete against players and thusly I avoid having to spend money to do so. As for micro-transactions, eh, I just won't pay them. Easy.
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But PvE typically has just as much competition.
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But PvE typically has just as much competition.
With who and over what? I'm not worried about farming le loots.
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But PvE typically has just as much competition.
I was about to point this out but figured there's no point since we're dealing with Rushy here.
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Actually, resolving issues with PvE competition is one thing that the game has done well. As long as you pitch in during a fight, you'll still get the "credit" for killing the mob and the loot.
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Actually, resolving issues with PvE competition is one thing that the game has done well. As long as you pitch in during a fight, you'll still get the "credit" for killing the mob and the loot.
Yes, but wouldn't players that paid for better equipment down enemies faster? And wouldn't that mean people would be more willing to party with the people who paid money for the benefits? And wouldn't that make the game less friendly for players who are not spending money (harder to find a group to play with, harder to kill monsters solo, etc). I don't know much about the game, so please educate me if I'm wrong here.
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>playing in groups
Bitch, please.
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>playing in groups
Bitch, please.
Main MMO I played was FFXI, and you couldn't get anything done without playing in a group of 5 to 30 people.
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Tell us what you think of the game, Rushy.
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Tell us what you think of the game, Rushy.
I feel like it is a pretty well established game. The UI is functional and intuitive, the dialogue is well written and in-depth, and the graphics are fantastic. The only thing that bothers me about the graphics is that although they went for a more dirty look regarding the setting, the characters all look like they bathe ten times a day, which is odd. Something that stood out to me was when choosing dialogue, if you're about to choose a mutually exclusive dialogue option, it reds the other options out. I found that to be extremely helpful in weighing choices appropriately. I don't really care much for lore lore lore but I can see they put a fair amount of effort into building more genuine quests and characters.
The class system is as I remember, but I only wish that different tactics could still help your class. As a mage, the only way I can increase magicka regen is to wear cloth. There are no such bonuses if I wear heavy or medium armors. I do understand that if a mage could wear heavy and still be a boss that no mage would ever wear light, but still, it is sort of a slap in the face to feel like you can "kinda sorta" do what you want, but in the end you really can't.
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I played through the game with my Nord Dragonknight wearing nothing buy Medium Armour even though Medium appears to be intended for Nightblade due to stealth bonuses. And I played a Khajiit Nightblade for the most parts with only light armour, but started wearing pieces of both Light and Medium later on in order to get both magic and stealth bonuses, both of which seems quite important for Nightblade in my experience..
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Okay, whelp, these quests definitely are unique. I had a quest where this chick was looking for a dead noble who was supposed to marry her. Turns out he was just toying with her and though it was funny to break a commoner's heart. It gave me the choice whether to lie to her or tell her that he was just toying with her. I chose just to tell her and she just ran away crying. About an hour later I found her ghost wandering next to these lava fields, implying she killed herself (or at least died at some point). Pretty brutal.
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You should try playing an actual Elder Scrolls game.
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I am playing an actual Elder Scrolls game.
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As a mage, the only way I can increase magicka regen is to wear cloth.
You can also enchant jewelry to increase your magicka regen.
You should try playing an actual Elder Scrolls game.
Dude, Kirkbride himself says the game is good. You're not allowed to keep on bashing it.
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I'm actually impressed with the amount of players who stick to the naming conventions. I'd say only about one out of ten players have some dumb "mclovin" name and at least five of ten have a name that fits the naming convention of the race they play as.
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Dude, Kirkbride himself says the game is good. You're not allowed to keep on bashing it.
I wasn't. That was actually a friendly suggestion. As far as I know, Rushy still hasn't played any of the core (more like hardcore) ES games, and if he can get into babby's first Elder Scroll then he can probably enjoy them.
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That was actually a friendly suggestion.
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I'm just going to bask in the moment knowing that I've successfully befuddled PP2. He cannot tell whether I've actually played the games I speak about or not.
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I'm not befuddled, you retarded retard. I know you haven't.
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I'm not befuddled, you retarded retard. I know you haven't.
Is that your final answer? You should be more specific about the game you know I haven't played.
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Didn't you play Morrowind? I thought I saw you posting about that earlier in the thread.
Did you attack Sheogorath? Totally worth it.
And you seem to know about this, so I'm guessing you've played Oblivion... or maybe you've just watched someone play it.
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I'm not befuddled, you retarded retard. I know you haven't.
Is that your final answer? You should be more specific about the game you know I haven't played.
I don't care.
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I win.
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http://youtu.be/8HUvTp8ZcJs
Enter Rushy.
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Rushy has definitely played Skyrim. He's said so several times on the other site. I don't think he was as explicit about Oblivion, but judging by his level of familiarity with it, I would say that he's probably played that too.
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He doesn't need to play Skyrim when there's plenty of speed runs on Youtube.
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No, but I doubt he's lying about it. What would be the point? To get e-cred from us? PP2 is just going to have to accept that people are allowed to disagree with him.
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No, but I doubt he's lying about it. What would be the point? To get e-cred from us? PP2 is just going to have to accept that people are allowed to disagree with him.
Do you even realize who you're talking about?
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Saddam white knighting for Rushy? :o
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I'm just going to bask in the moment knowing that I've successfully befuddled PP2 most of the forum.
Steam reports I've spent some 236 hours on Skyrim, 19 hours on Oblivion and 2 hours on Morrowind. Keep in mind that most of my Oblivion days were on a console when I was in high school; I can almost certainly say I've spent more hours on Oblivion than Skyrim.
Also, you guys should lurk moar, if you look at the desktop screenshot in the "life in 4k" thread you can clearly see a Skyrim shortcut sitting right on my desktop.
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Morrowind and Skyrim tied for shittiness, right?
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Morrowind and Skyrim tied for shittiness, right?
I stopped playing Morrowind after 2 hours yet I have 236 hours on Skyrim, so no, not really at all. Anyone who really just loves Morrowind in this day and age is wearing these:
(http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/NostalgiaGoggles.png)
It might have been a great game when it came out but to me hasn't aged well. I'll probably start playing it again here in a few days when I have to travel a bunch; it is one of the few games my Surface Pro can play without exploding.
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http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://elderscrolls.net/2015/02/18/12726-tes-online-unikalnye-predmety-kotorye-mozhno-ukrast
Translated because it was originally in Russian. Anyway, I think/hope that the implication in-game will be that these items are forgeries being pawned off on gullible buyers. The alternative is too lore-bendingly horrific to contemplate. However, the mention of Akulakhan and the "Second Numidium" is a screw-up. That won't exist for another eight hundred years.
Also:
<Saddam> Alessia was a feminist
<Crudblud> And a homophobe
<Saddam> Incorrect
<Saddam> Her consort was Morihaus, who was also involved with Pelinal
<Saddam> Pelinal being the time-traveling robotic fractal swarm
<Saddam> Who was also gay
<Crudblud> Pelinal Whitestrake the gay robot from the future
<Saddam> Yes
<Crudblud> Who eats his own come, as is the custom in Tamriel
<Saddam> No, no, that was Reman I
<Saddam> Deep, rich lore
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Appparently I got some sort of vanity pet monkey for being a beta player. I guess now I can look down on all the other players that have no pet monkey.
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Yes, but do you have the unicorn?
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Appparently I got some sort of vanity pet monkey for being a beta player. I guess now I can look down on all the other players that have no pet monkey.
Not just any monkey, an Imgakin monkey. This suggests some sort of relationship to the Imga, the intelligent "Great Apes" of Valenwood. It's odd that we don't see any in TESO, seeing how pretty much all of Valenwood is in the game, but they did add one neat thing about them. The founder of the Alessian Order, a brutal, monotheistic religious cult from the First Era that sadly turned the First Empire into a tyranny, was a prophet named Marukh. He's been mentioned in lore books since Daggerfall, but none of them ever mentioned what race he was. The only reference we had was Kirkbride, who claimed (http://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archives-michael-kirkbride) that he was an Imga:
In any case, it's the True name of the world.
Imagine an ape (Marukh) struggling to say "Tamriel" and you get "Tam! RUGH!"
But then TESO came out, and they confirmed it!
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Vindication_for_the_Dragon_Break
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:The_Exclusionary_Mandates
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Proper-Life:_Three_Chants
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:The_Illusion_of_Death
There's lore everywhere, if you look hard enough.
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ESO does in fact have a lot of lore lore lore, I'm impressed with the overall story significance of various quests, easily comparable to the singleplayer games. Or it could be that my only other fantasy MMO experience is WoW and it sets the standard pretty low lore-wise.
I can't help but find it odd, though, that once again I am a hero that is saving literally everyone I meet yet I am still forced to do things like pay for repairs. "Oh, you broke all your stuff saving our entire city? That'll be 200 gold for repairs."
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People has to make living, you greedy son of a bitch!
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While this is a joke, I am in the beta and the game has been pretty terribly designed. Overall it is more or less a copy and paste of WoW with some Elder Scrolls characters thrown in. The first person view is neat but you can still feel the basic fights are still exactly the same. The class system is well done, but doesn't make a point to tell you that classes ultimately don't control what you can do. I won't be buying it in the future.
More of the liars on here.
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How did I get to page 11? Gdi Saddam >:(
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While this is a joke, I am in the beta and the game has been pretty terribly designed. Overall it is more or less a copy and paste of WoW with some Elder Scrolls characters thrown in. The first person view is neat but you can still feel the basic fights are still exactly the same. The class system is well done, but doesn't make a point to tell you that classes ultimately don't control what you can do. I won't be buying it in the future.
More of the liars on here.
Well, given the state of the game at the time, it was pretty easy to say I wouldn't buy it. The game has improved quite a lot. There are plenty of features that were incomplete or missing entirely in the beta build.
People has to make living, you greedy son of a bitch!
Well maybe I should have just let them all die and looted their corpses. They're the greedy ones here, not me.
In other news, why would the enemy have a general that is the equivalent level of 5? That doesn't make any sense. At least WoW had it so the enemies you fight early on are relatively feeble nobodies. Like, by level 20 in WoW, you're fighting a bunch of gang teenagers, then by level 90 you fight the guys trying to destroy the planet. In ESO I'm apparently fighting general after general and taking out entire armies of trained soldiers at level 10. I'm even fighting off Molag Bal's baddies. Who do I fight at level 50? Do I literally kill Molag Bal? That'd be dumb.
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You fight him, but he doesn't die.
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I was about to say that the idea of killing a being like Molag Bal is ridiculous, but now that I come to think of it, there is precedent for the idea that such supposedly immortal figures can in fact be destroyed. I mentioned earlier that Mannimarco was going to use the Amulet of Kings to somehow mantle Bal and take his place as a Daedric prince - I don't know how, but the Amulet is a powerful magical artifact. It's got Lorkhan's blood and all. Presumably he had a plan of some sort. And those lore books I just linked to talk about the Dance of the Selectives, which was when Marukh and his followers performed a strange ritual to retroactively destroy the Aldmeric version of Akatosh, Auri-El. There's also this book (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:%22Death%22_of_Morphotypical_Entities) in TESO that speculates on the possibility of killing Daedra within the realm of Aetherius, although we never get this see this theory tested.
I can't resist sharing another book from the same author, and this is for Vauxy or anyone else who questions how to introduce the PC to the main story of a fantasy game without relying on tired "Chosen One" tropes:
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Chaotic_Creatia:_The_Azure_Plasm
His theory is that the Soul Shriven's bodies are flawed because they have lost the focusing principle of their Anuic souls, so their vestiges are imperfect patterns. I concurred that this was likely, and then proposed the theoretical possibility of a Soul Shriven who, despite having lost his or her soul, possessed some other intrinsic Anuic aspect. This shall-we-say "paragon" Soul Shriven would form an unflawed body in Coldharbour that was a perfect duplicate of the body worn in Mundus. In fact, if this paragon bore a sufficiently high Anuic valence, upon contact with Padomaic creatia its body would form almost instantaneously.
The Sojourner scoffed at my theory, but seemed taken with the idea nonetheless. He went on to speculate that if such a thing were possible, it would probably occur in a situation where the Mundus was in existential jeopardy. In that case the Heart of Nirn would spontaneously generate such "paragon" individuals as a way of defending itself from destruction, in a manner analogous to the way the mortal body fights off infection.
This is some quality gibberish here. You're not special because there's some dumb prophecy saying you're special; you're special because SCIENCE!
Someone data-mined from TESO this list of stuff you're going to be able to steal:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JP3h2H1nSBtmrIPaNN9PY3QHGaWiYaP1Xqfc01OC3XU
Several of them are basically porn:
A collection of erotic fiction, featuring pairings of prominent Aldmeri Dominion figures, including Queen Ayrenn and Urcelmo.
...
Illustrated folio from the Thalmor depicting methods of coition “that properly reflect our Altmeri heritage."
...
Bulging device with inward-facing goggles and a crank that, when turned, shows the viewer moving images of Bosmer procreation.
...
Set of bedroom stilts and large furry mittens for enacting the erotic charade "The King and the Amorous Giantess."
...
Khajiiti pamphlet showing various forms of erotic dalliance, illustrated by stylized drawings of astoundingly lithe cat-people.
Alas, there is nothing about penis-spears or eating semen in there.
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Lore lore lore
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TES has always included porn lore. Things like the book "Thief of Virtue" and an Argonian named "Lifts-Her-Tail" have very few other interpretable meanings.
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"The Lusty Argonian Maid volume 2"
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I just discovered that "Green-Sap," the name of the Tower in Valenwood, was first mentioned OOG by Kirkbride in the Nu-Mantia Intercept (http://www.imperial-library.info/content/nu-mantia-intercept). Cool. And if I may draw your attention to more of the Kirkster's porn lore, Remanada (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Remanada):
And the shieldthane bore witness to the spirit opening naked to his king, carving on a nearby rock the words AND HROL DID LOVE UNTO A HILLOCK before dying in the sight of their union.
When the fifteen other knights found King Hrol, they saw him dead after his labors against a mound of mud. And they parted each in their way, and some went mad, and the two that returned to their homeland beyond Twil would say nothing of Hrol, and acted ashamed for him.
But after nine months that mound of mud became as a small mountain, and there were whispers among the shepherds and bulls. A small community of believers gathered around that growing hill during the days of its first churning, and they were the first to name it the Golden Hill, Sancre Tor. And it was the shepherdess Sed-Yenna who dared climb the hill when she heard his first cry, and at its peak she saw what it had yielded, an infant she named Reman, which is "Light of Man."
And in the child's forehead was the Chim-el Adabal, alive with the dragon-fires of yore and divine promise, and none dared obstruct Sed-Yenna when she climbed the steps of White-Gold Tower to place the babe Reman on his Throne, where he spoke as an adult, saying I AM CYRODIIL COME.
So Hrol repeatedly jerked off onto a pile of mud until he died of exhaustion, the mud grew into a hill, and then the hill hatched Reman. Now, let's take another look at that list of things you can steal in TESO:
This vial of soil is purportedly from the hillock King Hrol fertilized before his death.
lore lore lore
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Well Oblivion is bad.
Take it back.
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What is that you particularly like about Oblivion, Vauxy? I'm not trying to rustle your jimmies or anything, but I mean as opposed to the things that you dislike about the other games.
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Xhe likes the funny potato faces xddddd and the really beautiful well written quets :'(((((((((
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Xhe likes the funny potato faces xddddd and the really beautiful well written quets :'(((((((((
I almost feel like shitposting of this calibre should be banworthy
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What is that you particularly like about Oblivion, Vauxy? I'm not trying to rustle your jimmies or anything, but I mean as opposed to the things that you dislike about the other games.
Oblivion is a facet of my youth. It was the first Elder Scrolls game I ever played. I loved it. I got lost in it for hours. Sometimes days at a time with no break (I took adderall as a youngster, so that helped). My love for Oblivion is absolutely biased and completely dependent on nostalgia goggles.
Like PP2 said, I do like the quests a lot. I find them interesting and very entertaining. I also think they are more well written than Skyrim's, and just slightly better than Morrowind's. Naturally, going to Morrowind from Oblivion was a weird experience for me. At first I hated Morrowind. I thought it was inaccessible and convoluted. The level up system was basically the same as Oblivion's, so I didn't have a problem with that. I mainly had issues with quest layout, travelling, basic combat, and figuring out what the hell to do. Morrowind, to me, is too demanding and convoluted for newcomers. I started having fun with Morrowind about 30 hours into it. I started having fun with Oblivion almost immediately. Of course, this is a subjective affair but like I said... I am biased.
Oblivion does many things better than Morrowind. The combat makes sense (you don't whiff an attack that obviously looks like it connects), magic doesn't just flat out 'fail', and you can still use weapons proficiently without stacking multiple points in them. The quests are well organized in Oblivion, whereas in Morrowind it is just a complete clusterfuck without mods. The fast travel system in Morrowind is useful, but lacking in comparison to Oblivon's. I know the whole "fast travel is for noobs" argument, but it really helps when you're doing tedious menial tasks. In Morrowind, I had to walk 3 miles every time I wanted to turn in a mushroom for a damn quest. Sure, you could subvert this by using certain spells, flying, and siltstriders, but most of those options are not practical until later in the game. I love exploration as much as the next guy, but when I am focused on one certain task (particularly fetch quests) I want to be able to get it done in a timely fashion and without being side-tracked. Besides that, I don't care about the setting. Sure, Morrowind's setting is more unique and eclectic, but it's still a generic fantasy setting (lol rushy'd) just like Oblivion's Cyrodiil. I actually liked Cyrodiil a lot. I'm partial to high-fantasy bullshit, so it sat well with me and felt natural.
I could go on, but I'll just add this bit. I like the potato faces and the "HALT!" zoomers.
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Sure, you could subvert this by using certain spells, flying, and siltstriders, but most of those options are not practical into later in the game.
Those options become even more practical later in the game, once the cost of public transportation and intervention scrolls becomes negligible, or you become skilled enough to cast teleportation spells without failing.
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Sure, you could subvert this by using certain spells, flying, and siltstriders, but most of those options are not practical into later in the game.
Those options become even more practical later in the game, once the cost of public transportation and intervention scrolls becomes negligible, or you become skilled enough to cast teleportation spells without failing.
I shouldn't have to wait until late game to be able to go where I want without spending an hour doing so. Especially if I choose to build a brute strength character or a thief that does not rely on magic.
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Sure, you could subvert this by using certain spells, flying, and siltstriders, but most of those options are not practical into later in the game.
Those options become even more practical later in the game, once the cost of public transportation and intervention scrolls becomes negligible, or you become skilled enough to cast teleportation spells without failing.
I shouldn't have to wait until late game to be able to go where I want without spending an hour doing so. Especially if I choose to build a brute strength character or a thief that does not rely on magic.
Okay, then you can use public transportation or scrolls. There is no spot on the map that is so far from any silt strider or boat that it would take an hour of running to get there.
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Excuse my use of hyperbole, but 10-15 minutes walking somewhere (especially when you're not clear on where to go) can feel like an hour.
Do you have any objections to my other points?
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No. You said it yourself, "I am biased, and also I am dumb." Pretty much everything you mentioned involved personal preference, and not even the most skilled debateur could repair your nostalgia induced insanity.
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No. You said it yourself, "I am biased, and also I am dumb." Pretty much everything you mentioned involved personal preference, and not even the most skilled debateur could repair your nostalgia induced insanity.
The absurdity of connecting a hit but still missing is not personal preference. That was a terrible design choice. Pseudo-action based combat should not be governed by dice rolls. Rats should not be able to easily kill a fully grown adult dunmer with a sword.
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That's a really good point, buddy. Now that you mention it, that is kind of silly. I guess I never really thought about it lol.
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That's a really good point, buddy. Now that you mention it, that is kind of silly. I guess I never really thought about it lol.
I'm glad we're in agreement. Morrowind is terrible.
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ITT: 2 nostalgic nerds clash.
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No. You said it yourself, "I am biased, and also I am dumb." Pretty much everything you mentioned involved personal preference, and not even the most skilled debateur could repair your nostalgia induced insanity.
The absurdity of connecting a hit but still missing is not personal preference. That was a terrible design choice. Pseudo-action based combat should not be governed by dice rolls. Rats should not be able to easily kill a fully grown adult dunmer with a sword.
Yes, it is. It might be one that most people would share, but it's still a subjective opinion. Personally, I don't mind the reliance on your stats and chance, but I think they could have stood to make the system a little more forgiving. Practicing a skill you're not experienced in should be difficult, yes, but not borderline impossible.
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It is not borderline impossible. Nobody would play a game if one of the most basic tasks was borderline impossible. Unless it were one of those novelty games that's meant to be as difficult as possible.
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It is not borderline impossible. Nobody would play a game if one of the most basic tasks was borderline impossible. Unless it were one of those novelty games that's meant to be as difficult as possible.
If you don't make your character with specific skills in mind, it is borderline impossible. I actually stopped playing Morrowind for a bit, and then looked up a character creation tutorial, just because my character could quite literally not kill a rat during the first fighter's guild quest. The game seems to lean on assuming whoever is playing it has prior experience in creating RPG characters and what skills to pick in order to make functional combat feasible.
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If you don't make your character with specific skills in mind,
You literally have no choice but to make your character with specific skills in mind, unless you close your eyes while allocating your majors and minors. If you don't know what a certain skill does, then just read the description for it. What set of circumstances led to you failing to kill a rat?
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Yet the game punishes you for ever branching from those skills. I choose Bow/Archery whatever for my skills but then when encountering a rat in close quarters I pulled out a dagger and could not kill the rat. That is a stupid game design and you know it.
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No. You said it yourself, "I am biased, and also I am dumb." Pretty much everything you mentioned involved personal preference, and not even the most skilled debateur could repair your nostalgia induced insanity.
The absurdity of connecting a hit but still missing is not personal preference. That was a terrible design choice. Pseudo-action based combat should not be governed by dice rolls. Rats should not be able to easily kill a fully grown adult dunmer with a sword.
Yes, it is. It might be one that most people would share, but it's still a subjective opinion. Personally, I don't mind the reliance on your stats and chance, but I think they could have stood to make the system a little more forgiving. Practicing a skill you're not experienced in should be difficult, yes, but not borderline-impossible.
You're right, but you could argue that any bad game design choice is simply personal preference.
The rat point still stands.
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Marksman was your only major/minor combat skill?
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Marksman was your only major/minor combat skill?
If the game explained character creation in a bit more detail he probably would not have made such a stupid decision. Or you know, if they made the game more user friendly to begin with.
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Marksman was your only major/minor combat skill?
I don't use it a lot so I normally opt to give it an extra boost so I don't suffer from not using it. I didn't realize the game was literally asking "which one of these do you want to be useful?" I then picked an additional host of skills I don't use often to, again, increase them without grinding effort.
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Marksman was your only major/minor combat skill?
I don't use it a lot so I normally opt to give it an extra boost so I don't suffer from not using it. I didn't realize the game was literally asking "which one of these do you want to be useful?" I then picked an additional host of skills I don't use often to, again, increase them without grinding effort.
So you tried to game the system in a very dumb way, and it backfired. What terrible design. I think most people can CHIM hard enough to intuit that when the game asks for your "major" skills, it's asking for the ones that you wish to use the most.
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So you tried to game the system in a very dumb way, and it backfired. What terrible design. I think most people can CHIM hard enough to intuit that when the game asks for your "major" skills, it's asking for the ones that you wish to use the most.
It's not asking for skills you use the most, it's asking for skills that your character can use, it just gives a psuedo feeling of being able to do whatever you want. It doesn't even make logical sense. How can a person be a good marksman but have Parkinson's trying to kill a rat with a dagger?
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Why doesn't the game tell you that you will literally suck ass and be a bumbling fuck with the skills you don't pick as major skills?
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Why doesn't the game tell you that you will literally suck ass and be a bumbling fuck with the skills you don't pick as major skills?
I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.
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Holy fuck, how is Rushy this bad at video games?
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Holy fuck, how is Rushy this bad at video games?
Daaw, wittle blanko is upset dat wushy daws not like has fawrite gaem.
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Holy fuck, how is Rushy this bad at video games?
Daaw, wittle blanko is upset dat wushy daws not like has fawrite gaem.
But my favourite game isn't Morrowind.
It's just baffling to me how you can have literally zero interests besides video games, yet you're still overwhelmed by simple RPG systems.
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So you tried to game the system in a very dumb way, and it backfired. What terrible design. I think most people can CHIM hard enough to intuit that when the game asks for your "major" skills, it's asking for the ones that you wish to use the most.
It's not asking for skills you use the most, it's asking for skills that your character can use, it just gives a psuedo feeling of being able to do whatever you want. It doesn't even make logical sense. How can a person be a good marksman but have Parkinson's trying to kill a rat with a dagger?
Were you also maximally fatigued while fighting this rat?
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Why doesn't the game tell you that you will literally suck ass and be a bumbling fuck with the skills you don't pick as major skills?
I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.
You're not supposed to.
So you tried to game the system in a very dumb way, and it backfired. What terrible design. I think most people can CHIM hard enough to intuit that when the game asks for your "major" skills, it's asking for the ones that you wish to use the most.
It's not asking for skills you use the most, it's asking for skills that your character can use, it just gives a psuedo feeling of being able to do whatever you want. It doesn't even make logical sense. How can a person be a good marksman but have Parkinson's trying to kill a rat with a dagger?
Were you also maximally fatigued while fighting this rat?
It's a common noob mistake which I did myself the first time because the walking speed is so atrociously slow, even if you max out speed and pick The Steed, so you tend to want to run instead of walk.
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So you tried to game the system in a very dumb way, and it backfired. What terrible design. I think most people can CHIM hard enough to intuit that when the game asks for your "major" skills, it's asking for the ones that you wish to use the most.
It's not asking for skills you use the most, it's asking for skills that your character can use, it just gives a psuedo feeling of being able to do whatever you want. It doesn't even make logical sense. How can a person be a good marksman but have Parkinson's trying to kill a rat with a dagger?
Were you also maximally fatigued while fighting this rat?
Assuming this means I had green bar left, the answer is no. I always ensured the stamina bar was full or close to it.
Holy fuck, how is Rushy this bad at video games?
Daaw, wittle blanko is upset dat wushy daws not like has fawrite gaem.
But my favourite game isn't Morrowind.
It's just baffling to me how you can have literally zero interests besides video games, yet you're still overwhelmed by simple RPG systems.
Okay.
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Assuming this means I had green bar left, the answer is no. I always ensured the stamina bar was full or close to it.
Well that's good. It sounds like that's the one thing you didn't do horribly wrong. I suppose you just brought to the fight the Skyrim mentality that you can kill anything, at any level, with any weapon.
You do make a good point about the absurdity of being skilled with a bow and unskilled with a dagger, since they are logically basically the same thing.
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I'm not saying they're literally the same thing, but this isn't an armored and well trained knight I'm trying to fight, it is a rat. If you can't kill a rat with a dagger, something has to be seriously, physically wrong with you. We know that isn't the case because my character is strong enough to use a bow with a draw weight capable of killing things. It doesn't make physical sense for him to have trouble giving a rat a good stab.
In Skyrim and Oblivion skill is determined by the player. In Morrowind, the players skill has nothing to do with the equation. Whether or not you got something is pure chance. Morrowind had a bad system that modern games no longer use and for good reason.
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I'm not saying they're literally the same thing, but this isn't an armored and well trained knight I'm trying to fight, it is a rat. If you can't kill a rat with a dagger, something has to be seriously, physically wrong with you. We know that isn't the case because my character is strong enough to use a bow with a draw weight capable of killing things. It doesn't make physical sense.
The rat is one of the most agile enemies in the game. That, combined with your ineptitude with short blades, leads to you missing a lot. That makes perfect sense. I guess it's confusing because dodges aren't represented graphically.
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I'm not saying they're literally the same thing, but this isn't an armored and well trained knight I'm trying to fight, it is a rat. If you can't kill a rat with a dagger, something has to be seriously, physically wrong with you. We know that isn't the case because my character is strong enough to use a bow with a draw weight capable of killing things. It doesn't make physical sense for him to have trouble giving a rat a good stab.
In Skyrim and Oblivion skill is determined by the player. In Morrowind, the players skill has nothing to do with the equation. Whether or not you got something is pure chance. Morrowind had a bad system that modern games no longer use and for good reason.
They're really big rats.
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You guys give up too easily.
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What do you think "give up" means?
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What do you think "give up" means?
It means this is yet another victory for FES.
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You are literally retarded.
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Rushy rushes even when he actually has a valid point. This is terrible. But yeah, I think the combat would have been a lot less frustrating if there had been animations that properly depicted what was "supposed" to be really happening, like the enemy dodging or your attacks bouncing off their hide or armor. There's just something incredibly annoying about seeing your attacks pass harmlessly through an enemy with that swishing noise.
In b4 they remake Morrowind?
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I always have a valid point, it's just that I crush the opposition so easily they fear to engage me in the open field of battle, so I get bored.
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Skywind looks great, and actually stands a good chance of being completed and released. The only thing I don't like about it is the developers' decision to add voice acting for every line in the game. Predictably, a lot of the acting is very mediocre.
I always have a valid point, it's just that I crush the opposition so easily they fear to engage me in the open field of battle, so I get bored.
I responded to your post and then you just pretended that I didn't and that I had given up. Kill you're self.
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You talk about a big ass rat being very agile. I would be amazed if you maintained a straight face while typing it.
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I bring up rats and I'm laughed at. Rushy steals my points and everyone kneels before him. What's going on here?
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You talk about a big ass rat being very agile. I would be amazed if you maintained a straight face while typing it.
Every enemy in the game has an agility attribute that plays a big part in determining their chance of being hit. The formula for determining evasion probability is ((Agility / 5) + (Luck / 10)) * (0.75 + 0.5 * Current Fatigue / Maximum Fatigue). Rats have high agility.
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I don't care what mystical number the game assigned to it, it is a big ass fucking rat in a storage room. Unless it is teleporting around the room, I maintain the logic that you'd have to have a serious physical disability not to be able to stab it with a dagger.
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QQ more and get good I guess
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See this is why I pointed out that you gave up. You know your point sucks and aren't even going to put effort in defending it. This is Elite: Dangerous all over again.
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Would you be able to stab a rat in real life while it's nimbly running around your feet on the floor? Because that's what the rats in Morrowind are doing. They're skipping and frolicing about while quickly moving in and out to bite your feet and legs. It's simply not animated. Rats are fucking fast, man.
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Two foot rats can not nimbly run around a five square foot room in such a fashion that an average adult can not stab them with a dagger.
I could see your point if it was a tiny rat, but if it was a tiny rat, it wouldn't be able to kill you in the first place.
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Would you be able to stab a rat in real life while it's nimbly running around your feet on the floor? Because that's what the rats in Morrowind are doing. They're skipping and frolicing about while quickly moving in and out to bite your feet and legs. It's simply not animated.
Actually, that's not what they're doing. If it's not being shown on the screen, then that's not what's happening. Otherwise, if that's what the developers intended... that is the worst fucking apologist game design I have ever seen. The rat obviously stands in front of you and attempts to attack you. If he was running about the room like a wild child how would he be able to attack and kill me so quickly despite the fact that I have a 5 foot claymore, or a dagger, or a short sword.
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Two foot rats can not nimbly run around a five square foot room in such a fashion that an average adult can not stab them with a dagger.
I could see your point if it was a tiny rat, but if it was a tiny rat, it wouldn't be able to kill you in the first place.
How would you know? Have you seen a two foot rat?
Actually, that's not what they're doing. If it's not being shown on the screen, then that's not what's happening. Otherwise, if that's what the developers intended... that is the worst fucking apologist game design I have ever seen. The rat obviously stands in front of you and attempts to attack you. If he was running about the room like a wild child how would he be able to attack and kill me so quickly despite the fact that I have a 5 foot claymore, or a dagger, or a short sword.
Because your claymore, dagger or short sword skill sucks, and the rat is fucking fast, man.
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Because he's fucking fast, man.
Yeah but he's just standing there.
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No, that's just how it's represented in-game.
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No, that's just how it's represented in-game.
???
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Two foot rats can not nimbly run around a five square foot room in such a fashion that an average adult can not stab them with a dagger.
I could see your point if it was a tiny rat, but if it was a tiny rat, it wouldn't be able to kill you in the first place.
How would you know? Have you seen a two foot rat?
You're really going to invoke this logic after you just got done telling me how fast they were?
I guess I don't need to reply to your posts since you're so busy arguing with yourself.
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Morrowind would be a much better game if they removed dice rolls for evasion. Let you switch your major/minor skills on the go. Explained character creation in more depth. Had HD graphix. Had dual wielding. Magic didn't whiff. Had voice acting. Fixed the stamina system. Had more fast travel options. Didn't rely on a difficulty slider to actually make the game playable. Let you ride dwemer motorcycles.
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Morrowind would be a much better game if they just removed numbers and let you be good at everything always
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Morrowind has more fast travel options than Skyrim and Oblivion combined.
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Morrowind has more fast travel options than Skyrim and Oblivion combined.
But somehow I spend 15 minutes walking from town to murderous rat den.
Morrowind could also benefit from quicktime events too.
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Also, who ever actually uses the difficulty slider?
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Also, who ever actually uses the difficulty slider?
Morrowind was the only ES game that I felt the need to use the difficulty slider. Mostly because of the fucking rats at the beginning of the game. Even then it barely helped. I think I read that this is because it only decreases enemy damage, and increases yours. It doesn't effect hit rate or evasion.
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Wow.
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[Practicing miscellaneous skills] is not borderline impossible. Nobody would play a game if one of the most basic tasks was borderline impossible. Unless it were one of those novelty games that's meant to be as difficult as possible.
I exaggerated slightly, but it's still absurdly difficult. You seemed to agree some months ago:
I don't think I've ever actually tried using a weapon for which my skill is only 5 or 10. I just created a character to test it out. My short blade skill was 5 and my agility was only 30. With an iron dagger, I was able to kill a mudcrab in six swings (three of them connected). Then I fought a rat and gave up somewhere around the 110th swing (four hits had connected and the rat was still at half health). I can see how that might be a problem. I began both fights with full fatigue. What an oxymoron. I'm glad they changed "fatigue" to "stamina".
I tried doing some other things using only miscellaneous skills. It's a great way to roleplay a physically and mentally handicapped person. Nothing works.
I'm not so much concerned about whether or not we can realistically expect rats to be nimbly dodging blows as I am about the effect that this has on the gameplay, and I have to say that this really sucks the fun out of it all, as well as clunkily restraining your ability to build your character how you want. It's not even a matter of gaming the system; there are valid reasons why you might want to develop your miscellaneous skills. Maybe you want to boost your attributes, for example. Say you're a mage-type character, and you want to boost your strength so you can carry more. The best way to do that is to practice your strength-governed skills before your next level-up...but you can't do that, because those are all miscellaneous skills and you're just going to get killed while you flail away in vain at whatever cliff racer you're fighting. Now all you can do is try and find an appropriate trainer somewhere and hope you can afford their services. Isn't that a problem? I'm not saying you should be awesome at everything to begin with, but surely there's a middle ground between that and how much you suck in Morrowind.
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Or, you know, you make potions or enchantments to increase your strength.
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That's not really character-building, though, at least not in the sense that increasing your attributes through leveling is. Also, I'm amused at how some people here are totally okay with the fact that Morrowind's combat is just a representation of what's "really" happening and we shouldn't interpret it too literally, but quest markers are still terrible because they're undisguised game mechanics.
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That's not really character-building, though, at least not in the sense that increasing your attributes through leveling is. Also, I'm amused at how some people here are totally okay with the fact that Morrowind's combat is just a representation of what's "really" happening and we shouldn't interpret it too literally, but quest markers are still terrible because they're undisguised game mechanics.
I think you've misunderstood. That's not why quest markers are terrible.
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That's not really character-building, though, at least not in the sense that increasing your attributes through leveling is. Also, I'm amused at how some people here are totally okay with the fact that Morrowind's combat is just a representation of what's "really" happening and we shouldn't interpret it too literally, but quest markers are still terrible because they're undisguised game mechanics.
I think you've misunderstood. That's not why quest markers are terrible.
Care to explain what does make them terrible, then?
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That's not really character-building, though, at least not in the sense that increasing your attributes through leveling is. Also, I'm amused at how some people here are totally okay with the fact that Morrowind's combat is just a representation of what's "really" happening and we shouldn't interpret it too literally, but quest markers are still terrible because they're undisguised game mechanics.
I think you've misunderstood. That's not why quest markers are terrible.
Care to explain what does make them terrible, then?
They make the game not fun.
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Oh ok I see
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That's not really character-building, though, at least not in the sense that increasing your attributes through leveling is. Also, I'm amused at how some people here are totally okay with the fact that Morrowind's combat is just a representation of what's "really" happening and we shouldn't interpret it too literally, but quest markers are still terrible because they're undisguised game mechanics.
I think you've misunderstood. That's not why quest markers are terrible.
Care to explain what does make them terrible, then?
They make the game not fun.
Why do they make the game not fun? Please explain in great detail, or we will not understand.
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That's not really character-building, though, at least not in the sense that increasing your attributes through leveling is. Also, I'm amused at how some people here are totally okay with the fact that Morrowind's combat is just a representation of what's "really" happening and we shouldn't interpret it too literally, but quest markers are still terrible because they're undisguised game mechanics.
A quest marker isn't a representation of something that's supposed to be actually happening.
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That's not really character-building, though, at least not in the sense that increasing your attributes through leveling is. Also, I'm amused at how some people here are totally okay with the fact that Morrowind's combat is just a representation of what's "really" happening and we shouldn't interpret it too literally, but quest markers are still terrible because they're undisguised game mechanics.
A quest marker isn't a representation of something that's supposed to be actually happening.
I disagree. They're representative of you occasionally checking your map and compass and making sure you're headed in the right direction.
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That's not really character-building, though, at least not in the sense that increasing your attributes through leveling is. Also, I'm amused at how some people here are totally okay with the fact that Morrowind's combat is just a representation of what's "really" happening and we shouldn't interpret it too literally, but quest markers are still terrible because they're undisguised game mechanics.
A quest marker isn't a representation of something that's supposed to be actually happening.
I disagree. They're representative of you occasionally checking your map and compass and making sure you're headed in the right direction.
Hmm yes, I can see it now. An explorer descends into a dark Dwemer ruin to find a mysterious puzzle box. Fortunately he remembered to bring his map and compass, so he knows which shelf it's on.
I'm not so much concerned about whether or not we can realistically expect rats to be nimbly dodging blows as I am about the effect that this has on the gameplay, and I have to say that this really sucks the fun out of it all, as well as clunkily restraining your ability to build your character how you want. It's not even a matter of gaming the system; there are valid reasons why you might want to develop your miscellaneous skills. Maybe you want to boost your attributes, for example. Say you're a mage-type character, and you want to boost your strength so you can carry more. The best way to do that is to practice your strength-governed skills before your next level-up...but you can't do that, because those are all miscellaneous skills and you're just going to get killed while you flail away in vain at whatever cliff racer you're fighting. Now all you can do is try and find an appropriate trainer somewhere and hope you can afford their services. Isn't that a problem? I'm not saying you should be awesome at everything to begin with, but surely there's a middle ground between that and how much you suck in Morrowind.
No, I don't see it as a problem that it is more difficult for a mage to increase their strength than it is for a warrior.
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Hmm yes, I can see it now. An explorer descends into a dark Dwemer ruin to find a mysterious puzzle box. Fortunately he remembered to bring his map and compass, so he knows which shelf it's on.
Or maybe he's particularly sharp-eyed, and he notices the unmistakable gleam of the puzzle box from across the room.
No, I don't see it as a problem that it is more difficult for a mage to increase their strength than it is for a warrior.
Why? Do mages' muscles just not develop properly or something? And it's not just more difficult, it's almost impossible without a trainer.
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Hmm yes, I can see it now. An explorer descends into a dark Dwemer ruin to find a mysterious puzzle box. Fortunately he remembered to bring his map and compass, so he knows which shelf it's on.
Or maybe he's particularly sharp-eyed, and he notices the unmistakable gleam of the puzzle box from across the room.
Or from across the entire dungeon, through several walls.
No, I don't see it as a problem that it is more difficult for a mage to increase their strength than it is for a warrior.
Why? Do mages' muscles just not develop properly or something? And it's not just more difficult, it's almost impossible without a trainer.
Yes, somebody who has devoted a significant amount of their life to studying magic or thievery is going to have a slower start than a warrior would if they suddenly decide to start bulking up.
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Big fan of the show. First time poster. What elder scrolls game should I start with?
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Big fan of the show. First time poster. What elder scrolls game should I start with?
Morrowind. (Disclaimer: It's the only one I've played.)
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Big fan of the show. First time poster. What elder scrolls game should I start with?
TESO, since PP2 referred to it as "babby's first elder scroll"
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Or from across the entire dungeon, through several walls.
Okay, having quest markers point you to a specific spot inside a dungeon is stupid. But most of the time when people talk about having quest markers, it's in comparison to following directions in your journal, indicating that they're thinking of navigation of the overworld. My ideal system would be having the quest markers of Oblivion in the overworld (not Skyrim's, where you can literally see arrows floating over people's heads, that was retarded) and the dungeons of Morrowind.
Yes, somebody who has devoted a significant amount of their life to studying magic or thievery is going to have a slower start than a warrior would if they suddenly decide to start bulking up.
How do you know who has or hasn't devoted a significant amount of their life to studying any one thing in particular? I could create a Nord mage who begins the game with higher strength and higher combat skills than an Altmer warrior, yet that Nord will be essentially unable to increase his strength, while the Altmer finds it easy. That doesn't make much sense to me.
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Hmm yes, I can see it now. An explorer descends into a dark Dwemer ruin to find a mysterious puzzle box. Fortunately he remembered to bring his map and compass, so he knows which shelf it's on.
Maybe there should just be an option to turn them off? Personally, I prefer my games not to be simulations of trying to find your keys in a messy apartment after a heavy night so I quite like them. It might not be realistic to instantly know where to look for a magical book in an abandoned fortress but I'd rather that than have to search every nook and cranny in every virtually-identical-looking room.
I'm reminded of that quest in Oblivion (or was it Skyrim?) to find crystal tears in a frozen grove. trying to spot the very slight change in colour between the near-transparent tears and the ice behind them or the very slight glint of light on them. if every fetch quest was like that I think I'd ragequit.
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Big fan of the show. First time poster. What elder scrolls game should I start with?
Show?
Don't start with Morrowind unless you want to be turned off by Elder Scrolls completely. I'd say start with Oblivion. It's much easier than Morrowind, much more user friendly, and you can kill rats with any kind of weapon at the start of the game.
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Yes, somebody who has devoted a significant amount of their life to studying magic or thievery is going to have a slower start than a warrior would if they suddenly decide to start bulking up.
How do you know who has or hasn't devoted a significant amount of their life to studying any one thing in particular?
I know this because I understand how the class system works. You've played too much Skyrim and it rotted your brain. A new character created with a class based creation system is not a blank slate. When you're choosing your major and minor skills, you're choosing your character's history. Those skills get a boost because they're the skills that your character has been training up until that point.
I could create a Nord mage who begins the game with higher strength and higher combat skills than an Altmer warrior, yet that Nord will be essentially unable to increase his strength, while the Altmer finds it easy. That doesn't make much sense to me.
No, you could not create a mage that begins with higher combat skills than a warrior.
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I know this because I understand how the class system works. You've played too much Skyrim and it rotted your brain. A new character created with a class based creation system is not a blank slate. When you're choosing your major and minor skills, you're choosing your character's history. Those skills get a boost because they're the skills that your character has been training up until that point.
I don't recall the game saying anything like that.
No, you could not create a mage that begins with higher combat skills with a warrior.
Oops, confused it with something else. Scratch that.
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I know this because I understand how the class system works. You've played too much Skyrim and it rotted your brain. A new character created with a class based creation system is not a blank slate. When you're choosing your major and minor skills, you're choosing your character's history. Those skills get a boost because they're the skills that your character has been training up until that point.
I don't recall the game saying anything like that.
I'm not sure why the game would need to "say" this, since it's so obvious. Is this another symptom of Skyrim brain melt?
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I don't know why you keep bringing up Skyrim like it's some kind of insult. At least in that game you don't have to lock yourself into an immutable plan right at the beginning. The classless system allows for more organic and believable character growth. Tamriel is not a vocational society where everybody is born into their skillset and profession. Just like on our own flat earth, people develop all sorts of odd combinations of skills over time (I definitely wish they would stop lopping off skills with each new game). For example, one of my characters is an Imperial who was a hunter during his early levels. After a profound religious experience, he dedicated his life to the service of Talos and began training as a knight. That wasn't something I had planned during character creation, so if I wanted to do the same thing in one of the previous games I would have to use the console.
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I also prefer character development over character creation.
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I don't know why you keep bringing up Skyrim like it's some kind of insult. At least in that game you don't have to lock yourself into an immutable plan right at the beginning. The classless system allows for more organic and believable character growth. Tamriel is not a vocational society where everybody is born into their skillset and profession. Just like on our own flat earth, people develop all sorts of odd combinations of skills over time (I definitely wish they would stop lopping off skills with each new game). For example, one of my characters is an Imperial who was a hunter during his early levels. After a profound religious experience, he dedicated his life to the service of Talos and began training as a knight. That wasn't something I had planned during character creation, so if I wanted to do the same thing in one of the previous games I would have to use the console.
I shan't fall for this again.
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Tee hee. Also, I hope you're going to resume TESO on the 17th. The four of us could team up for some dungeon delving. I want to get my hands on that Discourse Amaranthine.
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Why can't I pick up the Dwemer puzzle box from the shelf in the ruin before I've received the quest to go find it? It's like it's nailed to the shelf or weighs a million tons. Duuuuuuumb.
Well, at least it's there. If it were Oblivion or Skyrim, the thing probably wouldn't even be there before you're supposed to go fetch it.
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Oblivion did the magical appearing item phenomenon, but as far as I remember, Skyrim did let you pick up random quest related junk, it just wouldn't let you throw it away (and the quest items had weight, giving your character a permanent weight handicap).
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Well, okay.
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I finally managed to interact with the great Kirkbride himself!
http://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/2youoi/canonicity_of_the_dreamsleeve/
1) Ebonarm is the dumb. Probably will (and should) stay in in the trashbin. 2) Others have pointed out post-Spire uses of the dream sleeve. 3) Fuckin' c-word. Shame on you.
Yay!
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shame on you
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I don't know why I keep underestimating Saddam's obsession with TES lore. At this point, I'm suspicious that Saddam might be literally Kirkbride in a vain attempt to play himself up.
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This is Kirkbride?
(http://i.imgur.com/O12pmPL.jpg)
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Kirkbride's first computer. So precious.
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Remember that Kirkbride worked for Bethesda as an artist, not as any kind of coder or developer who would need to be wise in the ways of technology or whatever. This Saddam-as-Kirkbride theory may not be as implausible as you think.
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He also has a degree in theology.
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He also has a degree in theology.
No, he studied comparative religion. And yes, there is a difference between them. We discussed that subject here:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=52751.0
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He also has a degree in theology.
No, he studied comparative religion. And yes, there is a difference between them. We discussed that subject here:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=52751.0
I will admit the article you posted in that thread was a good read and likewise the comments were entertaining.
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Less lore, more lols
http://imgur.com/a/bioLF
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http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://elderscrolls.net/2015/02/18/12726-tes-online-unikalnye-predmety-kotorye-mozhno-ukrast
Translated because it was originally in Russian. Anyway, I think/hope that the implication in-game will be that these items are forgeries being pawned off on gullible buyers. The alternative is too lore-bendingly horrific to contemplate. However, the mention of Akulakhan and the "Second Numidium" is a screw-up. That won't exist for another eight hundred years.
And now they've fixed it:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1627262
Renamed the purple-quality stealable item "Bolt of the Second Numidium” to “Bolt of the Nimidium.” Akulakhan will never realize its ability to transcend time. That right belongs to another golem.
Little-known fact, the Nimidium was a golem built by Mike the Liar.
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Good thing you linked that, it reminded me to cancel the subscription. I have no doubt those jackasses would have charged me $15 only days before the game goes free.
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I no longer have enough money on my paypal, so my sub will be canceled about a week after it goes free, so I'll get a few days to try out ESO Plus.
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I no longer have enough money on my paypal, so my sub will be canceled about a week after it goes free, so I'll get a few days to try out ESO Plus.
You don't have a bank account or anything linked with them? They'll automatically use your other payment methods if they're available.
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I tried using my visa card at first, but I made a typo in the address field, and the fucking shit won't let me correct it. Every time I try to correct it, and click the submit button, the shit will still use the typo. So I opted for paypal instead.
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No, I meant with PayPal. They will exhaust all your payment methods before denying a payment request.
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I see.
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I see.
PayPal will come to your home and strong-arm your mother for money.
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Or maybe they'll take his homebrew as payment.
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And when they do come to my home to strong-arm my mother for money, I will suggest they go to her house instead, because my mother doesn't live here.
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I see.
PayPal will come to your home and strong-arm your mother for money.
PayPal actually would do this if they could spare the resources. The only entity that scrounges for money in a more hardcore manner than PayPal is the IRS, and that's saying a lot.
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beerdo has now cancelled his subscription, so hopefully he won't have to deal with PayPal's money-grubbing antics. In lore-related news, someone data-mined this new lore book, Secret Dwemer Origins, that's going to be in one of the expansions:
Gods, I have seen the visions you have given me. I have embraced it wholly. I have followed it here to the cave of Revelations! I have given it the name Zthgnthaz. It is the Dwemeris acronym for time-wizard!
They LAUGHED at me WELL NO MORE. Now I have PROOF.
It all makes perfect sense. Everything in here is brass. Brass is the color of time. It is the same way forwards and backwards. When you transpose it into Aldmeris it's spelled zathaganathaz. ZTHGNTHAZ.
THE TRUTH WILL NOT BE DENIED.
Zthgnthaz. Brass Time Wizard. I can hear the music right now. The notes spell out the mystery. The three alliance leaders are just puppets. Molag Bal was a distraction designed to divert our attention from the TRUTH.
I just need to find some crystals!
It's all here. All the proof I need. The Dwemer were time-visitors from the future. These ruins are impenetrable because they have not been built yet. They disappeared because something happened that caused them not to be born.
But I have discovered it, and I will set time on the right course again. I will bring them back!
As you can see, this clearly relates to our endless debate on the true nature of the Dwemer. But what does it mean? I have no idea. The consensus on r/teslore seems to be that it's a parody of their own obsession with bizarre and convoluted metaphysical lore.
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I think the Dwemer being from the future is actually a really cool idea, and potentially explains a lot.
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I think the Dwemer being from the future is actually a really cool idea, and potentially explains a lot.
No, it doesn't explain jackshit. If they're from the future, why is their technology so bad? Now it doesn't even make sense! Arrgh! >o<
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Their technology isn't so bad. They constructed automotons that we would have difficulty recreating with today's technology.
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Their technology isn't so bad. They constructed automotons that we would have difficulty recreating with today's technology.
We could make a lot cooler shit if soul power was a thing. I'm pretty sure Hitler would have made Jew-powered missiles or something. Given what the Dwemer have available, their technology blows. Every single one of their ruins has open-air mechanically driven steam pipes. That's awful, just awful, and it's even worse knowing they are from the future.
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We certainly do not "know" that.
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Advanced civilization? Check. Robots? Check.
That matches all the criteria.
Plus, they mysteriously vanished, which could have been them going back to their own time.
Although the text sounds more like the ravings of an ancient aliens conspiracy theorist, so it could just be hearsay.
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So, which Mer race evolved/turned into the Dwemer before they went back in time? Also, what's the actual skin colour of the dwemer? Yagrum Bagarn had grey skin, but he also had Corprus disease, so he's probably not a good example. But on the other hand, the Oghma Infinium, which is bound in the skin of all the Mer races, green for Orsimer, tan for Bosmer, light for Falmer, yellow for Altmer and darkest gray for Dunmer. But the dark scrap on the upper left is presumably the skin of a Dwemer...
(http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131212014728/elderscrolls/images/d/da/Skyrim_oghma_infinium.png)
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Maybe they're a mix of several Mer races.
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Their technology isn't so bad. They constructed automotons that we would have difficulty recreating with today's technology.
We could make a lot cooler shit if soul power was a thing. I'm pretty sure Hitler would have made Jew-powered missiles or something. Given what the Dwemer have available, their technology blows. Every single one of their ruins has open-air mechanically driven steam pipes. That's awful, just awful, and it's even worse knowing they are from the future.
Dwemer technology was built in such a way that it would almost never rust or break down, still be operational after thousands of years with literally no maintenance or oversight, and run perpetually despite there being no apparent source of energy producing the steam. You don't think that's advanced? And let's not forget the Numidium, an achievement so remarkable that its construction broke all the laws of physics and erased the Dwemer from the face of Nirn. And speaking of which - I know I said I wouldn't bump old posts in this thread anymore, but this is relevant, and it needs to be addressed:
Funny, history isn't my specialty, but I can't quite recall Mesopotamians having steampunk architecture and technology.
They also didn't become part of the golden skin of a giant robot or create animunculi. As I said, the connection is superficial, but it's more significant than the connection to Dorfs.
Outside of Kirkbride's vicarious Vivec (Vivecarious?) fanfics, the idea that the Dwemer were literally transformed into Numidium's skin is probably his weakest OOG addition to lore. It's far too superficial, too mundane, too physical a solution to a mystery that's supposed to be steeped in the strange metaphysics of the universe. I don't think the mystery of exactly what happened to the Dwemer will ever be properly answered in the games, nor do I think it ever should be, but that theory is just too dumb to merit serious consideration.
It looks like we can play TESO without a sub now. It seems to be a little early, but whatever.
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Dwemer technology was built in such a way that it would almost never rust or break down, still be operational after thousands of years with literally no maintenance or overseeing, and run perpetually despite their being no apparent source of energy producing the steam. You don't think that's advanced? And let's not forget the Numidium, an achievement so remarkable that its construction broke all the laws of physics and erased the Dwemer from the face of Nirn. And speaking of which - I know
But Saddam, TES doesn't actually have any laws of physics. In a world where a Jungle can turn into a Forest from pure willpower, the idea that the nonexistent laws of physics reprimanded an entire race is nonsense.
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Holy shit, I'm hovering at about 75 fps while on the high graphics settings. Feels good to be master race.
But Saddam, TES doesn't actually have any laws of physics. In a world where a Jungle can turn into a Forest from pure willpower, the idea that the nonexistent laws of physics reprimanded an entire race is nonsense.
Of course it has its own natural laws. They're different from ours, certainly, but they're still there. Although what I said wasn't quite accurate - it wasn't the Dwemer's construction of the Numidium that wrecked metaphysical shit up and broke the dragon, but their attempt to tap into the Heart of Lorkhan. The Dwemer were masters of Tonal Architecture, but something must have gone terribly wrong during their experimentation. Or maybe it all went right. Who knows what they expected to happen?
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Of course it has its own natural laws. They're different from ours, certainly, but they're still there.
Don't kid yourself, sadman, any 'laws' in that universe are made up on the spot and changed at will to suit a specific narrative. In most cases when these "mysterious events" occur in fiction, the writer leaves it as a mystery because the writer has no clue what happened anyway and never intends on creating a proper explanation. It's why you found Kirkbride's explanation to be utter garbage, because there isn't a good one. He made the question before he made the answer.
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I just want them to do a Discworld and acknowledge that the laws of physics are subservient to the laws of narrative (and with so many gods, that's easy to write.)
Though mainly that's because I want to craft a Narratavium armour that protects you from all but minor scratches against the mooks but can get reduced to one hit-point for the final battle with the Big Bad.
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I just want them to do a Discworld and acknowledge that the laws of physics are subservient to the laws of narrative (and with so many gods, that's easy to write.)
Though mainly that's because I want to craft a Narratavium armour that protects you from all but minor scratches against the mooks but can get reduced to one hit-point for the final battle with the Big Bad.
Plot armor has more resistances.
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Don't kid yourself, sadman, any 'laws' in that universe are made up on the spot and changed at will to suit a specific narrative. In most cases when these "mysterious events" occur in fiction, the writer leaves it as a mystery because the writer has no clue what happened anyway and never intends on creating a proper explanation. It's why you found Kirkbride's explanation to be utter garbage, because there isn't a good one. He made the question before he made the answer.
That's not correct. It's true that the question itself has never been given a definitive "Word of God" answer (despite Kirkbride's attempts), but that doesn't mean that it was created out of laziness and/or ignorance of lore on the part of the writers. Ambiguity isn't the same thing as vagueness. There are several theories on what happened to the Dwemer that certain characters in Morrowind propose, and not only are all of them better from a writing standpoint than "they literally became skin," they all have at least some backing in the metaphysical lore of the series. So why did Kirkbride suggest his dopey new idea years after the game came out? I don't know. Maybe he felt he hadn't been weird enough lately.
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That's not correct. It's true that the question itself has never been given a definitive "Word of God" answer (despite Kirkbride's attempts), but that doesn't mean that it was created out of laziness and/or ignorance of lore on the part of the writers. Ambiguity isn't the same thing as vagueness. There are several theories on what happened to the Dwemer that certain characters in Morrowind propose, and not only are all of them better from a writing standpoint than "they literally became skin," they all have at least some backing in the metaphysical lore of the series. So why did Kirkbride suggest his dopey new idea years after the game came out? I don't know. Maybe he felt he hadn't been weird enough lately.
Or maybe it is because he nor any other writer actually came up with a real reason they disappeared and have been half-assing mysterious ways it could have happened ever since. Writers do it all the time. Just watch Lost and behold the power of making up mysteries that even the writer doesn't know the answer to.
You'll just have to accept it, Saddam. Lore lore lore can't save a shitty mystery.
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Ugh, don't even get me started on Lost. Fucking L. Ron Hubbard showed more respect for his fans and their investment in the universe he created than those fucking hacks. And they didn't have the decency to fade away into obscurity like Chris Carter did afterward. Damon Lindelof is still out there, busy ruining perfectly good franchises.
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Soooooo, I'll prolly be logging on again now that it's free to play. I stopped because I bought Wildstar... which was just terrible. Never got back into TESO. It's a shame, I was having lots of fun with a nightblade tank.
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What's the end game in TESO?
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What's the end game in TESO?
Azura explodes.
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"S'rashi will now think of you as family. What is mine, is also yours"
*look at wardrobe*
"Steal"
...
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Ho hey, sweet lady of Wayrest! Ho hey, sweet lady of mine! Oh I'll see you again, yes I'll see you again, sweet lady of Wayrest so fine!
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What's the end game in TESO?
Azura explodes.
How many hours of raiding does this involve?
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What's the end game in TESO?
Azura explodes.
How many hours of raiding does this involve?
About 2.
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Soooooo, I'll prolly be logging on again now that it's free to play. I stopped because I bought Wildstar... which was just terrible. Never got back into TESO. It's a shame, I was having lots of fun with a nightblade tank.
what about the lore
What's the end game in TESO?
Basically it's PvP in Cyrodiil and group PvE in Craglorn and group dungeons.
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Soooooo, I'll prolly be logging on again now that it's free to play. I stopped because I bought Wildstar... which was just terrible. Never got back into TESO. It's a shame, I was having lots of fun with a nightblade tank.
what about the lore
What about it?
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Lore is the most important part of any TES game. You myst describe how great/terrible it is.
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Oh, it's amazeballs. I find when I don't read/listen to the quests that my level of enjoyment is dramastically decreased.
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Now even Blanko is playing the game. This is great. TESO FOR ALL!
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Did you two start questing after I had gone to bed?
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Blanko plays MMO's?
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Evidently. Tell us what you think of it, Balkno.
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Is Pongo a Blanko alt or something?
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Is Pongo a Blanko alt or something?
Yes.
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I fully expect you to also resume playing the game, PP2. Our FES guild will dominate Tamriel more than Molag Bal himself.
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It's alright.
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Sure, I'll start playing again. There are guilds now?
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There were always guilds. I suppose we haven't spent much time talking about it because beerdo and I were the only ones playing it for so long.
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I see you can steal stuff in-game now!
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ITT:
(http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/128/slowpoke_pokemon.gif)
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There were always guilds. I suppose we haven't spent much time talking about it because beerdo and I were the only ones playing it for so long.
I require a guild invite. I will do nothing to further advance the guild in any way whatsoever. Thanks.
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There were always guilds. I suppose we haven't spent much time talking about it because beerdo and I were the only ones playing it for so long.
I require a guild invite. I will do nothing to further advance the guild in any way whatsoever. Thanks.
Tell me your user ID and I will let you in.
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Blanko cannot into lore:
<Saddam> What do you think of the lore, by the way?
<Blanko> don't give a shit
<Saddam> Oh, come on
<Saddam> Morrowind is one of the handful of video games you'll admit are good
<Saddam> You must have some opinion on the lore of the region that's represented
<Blanko> Well I don't really see it as lore as much as I see it as justification for collecting ten bear testicles or whatever
<Saddam> honk
<Saddam> Blanko: You're being goofy. ZeniMax clearly made a big effort to avoid relying on the bear asses trope
<Saddam> There are a few of those quests, granted, but overall, these quests are some of the best that I've seen in an MMO
<Saddam> Which isn't saying much
<Blanko> I was exaggerating
<Blanko> But I mean that the "lore" is generally just shit about the contained stories of the quests
<Saddam> You're shit
<Saddam> lololol
Someone else try to challenge TESO's lore. I bet I'll be able to debunk your complaints.
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Someone else try to challenge TESO's lore. I bet I'll be able to debunk your complaints.
I am currently playing a Dark Elf with blue eyes.
Also, in a mansion in the Ebon Pact starting territory, there is a Nord who has married a Dark Elf but both of their children look like full blown Nords.
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Also, in a mansion in the Ebon Pact starting territory, there is a Nord who has married a Dark Elf but both of their children look like full blown Nords.
Which one is the female?
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Also, in a mansion in the Ebon Pact starting territory, there is a Nord who has married a Dark Elf but both of their children look like full blown Nords.
Which one is the female?
The Dark Elf.
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Then I guess the game really does blow chimp. Children are supposed to take the race of their mother.
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Uninstalled
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Where is this supposed FES guild?
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Also, in a mansion in the Ebon Pact starting territory, there is a Nord who has married a Dark Elf but both of their children look like full blown Nords.
Hrogar and Edwina explain that they met during the recent Akaviri invasion, which happened only ten years prior to the events of TESO. Obviously Hrogar's sons are much older than ten, so Edwina can't have been their mother. They were probably from a previous marriage of Hrogar's.
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Re-installed!
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Hrogar and Edwina explain that they met during the recent Akaviri invasion, which happened only ten years prior to the events of TESO. Obviously Hrogar's sons are much older than ten, so Edwina can't have been their mother. They were probably from a previous marriage of Hrogar's.
Still doesn't explain the blue-eyed dark elves.
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Where is this supposed FES guild?
You're not welcome.
Just send me your user ID and I'll give you an invite.
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Hrogar and Edwina explain that they met during the recent Akaviri invasion, which happened only ten years prior to the events of TESO. Obviously Hrogar's sons are much older than ten, so Edwina can't have been their mother. They were probably from a previous marriage of Hrogar's.
Still doesn't explain the blue-eyed dark elves.
Uh, sometimes people can inherit some recessive traits from their father. That might explain a Dunmer not having red eyes.
Also, I don't know why we don't see any Akaviri around. They're supposed to be present at this time. The Dragonknight class's abilities were apparently learned from them, and they still need to create the Blades. Where are they?
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Uh, sometimes people can inherit some recessive traits from their father. That might explain a Dunmer not having red eyes.
You just made this up just now.
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Incorrect. (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Notes_on_Racial_Phylogeny)
Generally the offspring bear the racial traits of the mother, though some traces of the father's race may also be present.
I am the supreme loremaster of this forum. Not even PP2 or beerdo can challenge my knowledge and authority.
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A supreme loremaster wouldn't link to UESP. (http://www.imperial-library.info/content/notes-racial-phylogeny-and-biology)
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I don't really like TIL's organization and formatting. It's a fine resource for looking up OOG stuff, but I prefer to use UESP when possible.
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(http://i.imgur.com/zOdsrZW.png)
This looks like crapioli.
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I'm at work and downloading viruses like adblock is frowned upon.
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Incorrect. (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Notes_on_Racial_Phylogeny)
Generally the offspring bear the racial traits of the mother, though some traces of the father's race may also be present.
I am the supreme loremaster of this forum. Not even PP2 or beerdo can challenge my knowledge and authority.
That was just retrograde bullshit. Just like when they fucked up making Cyrodil a temperate forest instead of a Jungle.
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Are you saying that they were trying to retcon something with that book? Bear in mind that it first appeared in Morrowind.
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Are you saying that they were trying to retcon something with that book? Bear in mind that it first appeared in Morrowind.
Yes.
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Are four classes enough?
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/7824/Are-Four-Classes-Enough.html
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Are four classes enough?
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/7824/Are-Four-Classes-Enough.html
Nope.
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Considering the fact that no matter what your class is you can wear/do most anything, then four really is enough.
Also, after the update I'm pretty sure they buffed mages. I so much as look at something and it just dies on the spot.
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Considering the fact that no matter what your class is you can wear/do most anything, then four really is enough.
Also, after the update I'm pretty sure they buffed mages. I so much as look at something and it just dies on the spot.
Yeah, instead of just having you use the right thing they allow you to use the wrong thing as well. Variety!
Really, the classes are far less complex and varied than WoW classes, and in WoW there are what... 11 of them?
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Also, after the update I'm pretty sure they buffed mages.
I would be surprised. When I was still paying attention to this game the most often repeated complaint was that mages were overpowered.
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Yeah, instead of just having you use the right thing they allow you to use the wrong thing as well. Variety!
Really, the classes are far less complex and varied than WoW classes, and in WoW there are what... 11 of them?
Vanilla WoW had 9 classes, two of which couldn't be used by both the Horde and Alliance, so each side effectively had 8 classes. The talent system was much worse and the classes were all locked to specific roles (a mage could never be a healer).
Whereas in TESO, any class can be a healer assuming they put points into restoration and magicka regen. Any class could effectively be a tank. There are enough skill points in TESO that you can do at least two roles and not suck at them (e.g. a sorcerer being both healer and DPS by switching between the two ability sets). Basically, if we're directly comparing this to WoW, TESO has 4 Druid classes.
Also, after the update I'm pretty sure they buffed mages.
I would be surprised. When I was still paying attention to this game the most often repeated complaint was that mages were overpowered.
Well, before the update I killed things very quickly, now I kill things almost instantaneously.
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the classes were all locked to specific roles
Paladin = Tank, DPS, heal
Druid = Tank, DPS, heal
Priest = DPS, heal
Warrior = Tank, DPS
Shaman = DPS, heal
But whatever, you should come heal for us in Fungal Grotto since the classes are so versatile. We could use Saddam but he mysteriously quit playing the game.
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Paladin = Tank, DPS, heal
Druid = Tank, DPS, heal
Priest = DPS, heal
Warrior = Tank, DPS
Shaman = DPS, heal
And?
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Paladin = Tank, DPS, heal
Druid = Tank, DPS, heal
Priest = DPS, heal
Warrior = Tank, DPS
Shaman = DPS, heal
And?
Yes.
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Yes.
I'm confused... do you like or not like versatile classes?
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Yes.
I'm confused... do you like or not like versatile classes?
I do.
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I do.
So, instead of having 4 classes that can do everything you want more classes that can do everything? What other classes would you add?
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I do.
So, instead of having 4 classes that can do everything you want more classes that can do everything? What other classes would you add?
Uh, so having all roles fulfilled means there shouldn't be any more classes? Why even have four classes then instead of just one that does everything?
There should be more classes because it's better for gameplay variety, that's all. WoW had it on release, TESO does not a year after release.
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Uh, so having all roles fulfilled means there shouldn't be any more classes? Why even have four classes then instead of just one that does everything?
I would have preferred one that can do everything. That doesn't literally mean every person does everything, just that you can specialize in anything you want as the character progresses. I hate class based systems.
There should be more classes because it's better for gameplay variety, that's all. WoW had it on release, TESO does not a year after release.
WoW was also a grind fest that consisted mostly of "find me 10 bear asses" quests. If WoW were to be released today (and some other MMO had been the WoW of its time) then WoW would fail miserably. There's a reason Blizzard lets you pay your way to the higher levels now... because no one wants to grind anymore. TESO tried to move away and for the most part did an okay job. The quests feel a bit more organic and Elder Scroll-like rather than the same thing over and over again.
Also, saying "TESO should be more like WoW" is the dumbest thing I've ever heard and at this point I'm pretty sure I'm being trololololed.
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TESO does do a better job with quests, but that's about it. Honestly, I think TESO is surprisingly good, but there's so little content in the game that I can't fathom why anyone would have subscribed to play it. It's probably better than WoW as a singleplayer game, but that's not good enough.
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the classes were all locked to specific roles
Paladin = Tank, DPS, heal
Druid = Tank, DPS, heal
Priest = DPS, heal
Warrior = Tank, DPS
Shaman = DPS, heal
But whatever, you should come heal for us in Fungal Grotto since the classes are so versatile. We could use Saddam but he mysteriously quit playing the game.
That wasn't effectively the case until Wrath.
WoW was also a grind fest that consisted mostly of "find me 10 bear asses" quests. If WoW were to be released today (and some other MMO had been the WoW of its time) then WoW would fail miserably. There's a reason Blizzard lets you pay your way to the higher levels now... because no one wants to grind anymore. TESO tried to move away and for the most part did an okay job. The quests feel a bit more organic and Elder Scroll-like rather than the same thing over and over again.
Also, saying "TESO should be more like WoW" is the dumbest thing I've ever heard and at this point I'm pretty sure I'm being trololololed.
WoW is still grindy, just like every MMO. You can pay to 90 because there's so many fucking levels now, not because people don't want to grind (which is what the game is basically about).
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So, apparently I just took a look at the new "Crown Store" in TESO and they gave me enough freebie crowns to buy the Imperial edition, so I actually just got the Imperial Edition upgrade for free. Thanks, Zenimax.
WoW is still grindy, just like every MMO. You can pay to 90 because there's so many fucking levels now, not because people don't want to grind (which is what the game is basically about).
Not every MMO is grindy, just WoW and the ones who think "the more like WoW I am, the more money I can make!"
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Not every MMO is grindy, just WoW and the ones who think "the more like WoW I am, the more money I can make!"
Most remotely successful MMOs are grind-based. They're designed to be a time sink so that people will continue to play. The trick is making the grind fun, which many MMOs fail to do.
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So, apparently I just took a look at the new "Crown Store" in TESO and they gave me enough freebie crowns to buy the Imperial edition, so I actually just got the Imperial Edition upgrade for free. Thanks, Zenimax.
WoW is still grindy, just like every MMO. You can pay to 90 because there's so many fucking levels now, not because people don't want to grind (which is what the game is basically about).
Not every MMO is grindy, just WoW and the ones who think "the more like WoW I am, the more money I can make!"
Show me one that isn't. Grindy =! bad either.
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TESO isn't grindy.
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Show me one that isn't. Grindy =! bad either.
www.eveonline.com
TESO isn't grindy.
Also, this is debatable, but the game does feel rather good. Most of the quests don't feel like what I'd describe as "grindy" and I've never found myself running around leveling for the sake of leveling.
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Show me one that isn't. Grindy =! bad either.
www.eveonline.com
TESO isn't grindy.
Also, this is debatable, but the game does feel rather good. Most of the quests don't feel like what I'd describe as "grindy" and I've never found myself running around leveling for the sake of leveling.
I've only sort of done this a couple ot times when I've beer really really close to leveling. I mean the XP bar has been like a few pixels away from being full, and all I had to do was whack 5 or 6 critters. If this can be considered grinding then, I dunno.
Sure, I could just as well have finished a quest, but I was so close to level up, and the critters were nearby, so why the fuck not?
Also, I hate it when op veteran fucks comes stealing my boss kills in the low level areas before I even get close enough to get a hit in, forcing me to wait for the fucker to respawn. >o<
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Are there still 6+ bots at evey dungeon boss?
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the classes were all locked to specific roles
Paladin = Tank, DPS, heal
Druid = Tank, DPS, heal
Priest = DPS, heal
Warrior = Tank, DPS
Shaman = DPS, heal
But whatever, you should come heal for us in Fungal Grotto since the classes are so versatile. We could use Saddam but he mysteriously quit playing the game.
That wasn't effectively the case until Wrath.
Most of it was the case in TBC. I don't know about vanilla since I started playing in late vanilla.
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An odd coincidence, given our recent SJW discussions, but I wanted to say that it's very irritating when people use obnoxious gender-neutral pronouns for characters like Boethiah, Mephala, and Vivec. It's dumb. Boethiah should just be referred to by whatever form he's taking at the time, Mephala is a she, and Vivec is a he.
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An odd coincidence, given our recent SJW discussions, but I wanted to say that it's very irritating when people use obnoxious gender-neutral pronouns for characters like Boethiah, Mephala, and Vivec. It's dumb. Boethiah should just be referred to by whatever form he's taking at the time, Mephala is a she, and Vivec is a he.
I thought Boethiah was like the Loki of TES? Capable of shapeshifting genders but still an actual male.
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An odd coincidence, given our recent SJW discussions, but I wanted to say that it's very irritating when people use obnoxious gender-neutral pronouns for characters like Boethiah, Mephala, and Vivec. It's dumb. Boethiah should just be referred to by whatever form he's taking at the time, Mephala is a she, and Vivec is a he.
Daedric princes have no actual gender, so no, Mephala is not a she. Vivec is a hermaphrodite, so he can be referred to as she as well. You got one right, though!
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Daedra having no biological sex is irrelevant, because we still refer to them as male or female depending on how they choose to appear. It's true that Mephala and Vivec are hermaphroditic, but they still present themselves as female and male, respectively. And to be clear, I don't have an issue with referring to Vivec as she. My problem is people calling him "ze." That shit is the worst.
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Who refers to Vivec as ze? Also, what makes that shit the worst? Is it worse that the Holocaust, Saddam?
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/r/teslore
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Who refers to Vivec as ze?
French people.
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So, apparently I just took a look at the new "Crown Store" in TESO and they gave me enough freebie crowns to buy the Imperial edition, so I actually just got the Imperial Edition upgrade for free. Thanks, Zenimax.
I got it too. But then I realized I could have gotten that sweet-ass Guar mount instead, but couldn't afford it after buying Imperial Edition. Well, fuc
I settled for the Pony Guar pet instead.
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I'm making an Imperial, but I can't decide which alliance to go with. :(
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I'm making an Imperial, but I can't decide which alliance to go with. :(
Have you considered Horde?
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Who refers to Vivec as ze? Also, what makes that shit the worst? Is it worse that the Holocaust, Saddam?
It's several times worse than the holocaust.
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I thought Boethiah was like the Loki of TES? Capable of shapeshifting genders but still an actual male.
Like PP2 and I were saying, pinning an "actual" gender on a Daedric Prince, as opposed to simply noting how mortals interpret their manifestations, is tricky. Boethiah is generally referred to as male in a "default" sense, but I wouldn't say that means his female form isn't real, or is just a disguise. He just takes the form that's more suited to the occasion. Also, it's interesting to note that both of his manifestations are very stereotypical in terms of gender roles. His female form relies on seduction and wheedling, while his male form is an aggressive, powerful warrior. The implications are intriguing.
Speaking of Boethiah, I remember how in the lead-up to TESO, a lot of fans called bullshit on Molag Bal being described as the "God of Schemes," insisted that Molag Bal had nothing to do with schemes, and that ZeniMax had confused him with Boethiah. Some examples:
http://teso-rp.com/forum/m/9324623/viewthread/6976823-god-schemes-ups-downs-trated-teso
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/615803-the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/66105444
http://www.bethblog.com/2013/05/02/discover-coldharbour/ (the comments section)
Evidently, they had all forgotten about this book (http://www.imperial-library.info/content/varieties-faith-empire), which dates back to Morrowind, and was written by none other than Kirkbride himself:
Molag Bal (God of Schemes, King of Rape)
Hurr durr. And you might have noticed that in a couple of those threads, people actually pointed out that book, only to be ignored by everyone else. Once again, hurr durr. In any case, there's already plenty of overlap between the Daedric Princes' spheres. Sanguine and Mephala are both affiliated with sex, Peryite and Namira both govern the spread of disease, Mephala and Namira can both handle creepy little things like bugs and worms, etc. It was hardly unheard of even prior to TESO.
<beerdo> Saddam: Why is there no snow in High Rock
<beerdo> It's just as far north as Skyrim
<Blanko> beerdo: climate change
<beerdo> but how
<Blanko> ??
<Blanko> Also, latitude isn't very indicative of how cold it would be
<beerdo> Why would it have a different climate?
<Blanko> The same latitude as Finland is much colder in Canada, for instance
<beerdo> fuckshit
<Parsifal> Blanko: That's probably not true
<Parsifal> It's the middle of the day in Canada at the moment, for starters
<Blanko> Parsifal: There's barely any temperature variance between day and night during winter/early spring
<beerdo> well fine, Northern Vvardenfell doesn't have snow either.
<Blanko> beerdo: It's a volcanic region moran
<beerdo> No idea about northern mainland Morrowind, since it's never been seen
<Parsifal> Blanko: Tell that to the surface of Mercury
<Blanko> Parsifal: k
<Blanko> No response from Mercury
<beerdo> Why does it have to have warmer weather just because it's a volcano?
<Blanko> um
<Parsifal> ...
<Blanko> Because that's literally what happens
<Blanko> See: Iceland
<beerdo> There's volcanos in Iceland too, and there's snow there
<Blanko> Iceland is pretty warm m8
<beerdo> And yet there's snow there
As it turns out, Blanko had it right the first time. It was indeed climate change, as explained here (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:The_Remnant_of_Light). High Rock was a "Land of Cold Rocks" until this Filestis brought the Remnant of Light there and transformed it into the temperate, fertile land that it is today.
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I'm glad we can just finally admit that nothing in TES has to make logical sense because the lore can magic it away.
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If the lore magics it away well, then it will make logical sense (within the continuity of the universe, of course).
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If the lore magics it away well, then it will make logical sense (within the continuity of the universe, of course).
No. In a universe where magic doesn't have to follow a given set of guidelines then it will never make logical sense. They're going by Harry Potter rules: magic does what is most convenient for the plot at any given time.
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If the lore magics it away well, then it will make logical sense (within the continuity of the universe, of course).
No. In a universe where magic doesn't have to follow a given set of guidelines then it will never make logical sense. They're going by Harry Potter rules: magic does what is most convenient for the plot at any given time.
Isn't that how magic works pretty much everywhere?
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Isn't that how magic works pretty much everywhere?
There are plenty of fiction universes that have very strict guidelines on the how, what, when, where and why's of magic. Most at least have some form of rules to go by.
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Isn't that how magic works pretty much everywhere?
There are plenty of fiction universes that have very strict guidelines on the how, what, when, where and why's of magic. Most at least have some form of rules to go by.
Yeah, but magic still serves as a lame plot device in some of them.
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Yeah, but magic still serves as a lame plot device in some of them.
Well, yeah, but at least they bother to pretend it fits into the story by explaining the mechanics before hand. TES, Harry Potter, and other "MAGIC!" fictions just throw that shit in your face and say deal with it.
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TES has but one rule when it comes to magic: anything is possible if you follow your dreams
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Well, yeah, but at least they bother to pretend it fits into the story by explaining the mechanics before hand. TES, Harry Potter, and other "MAGIC!" fictions just throw that shit in your face and say deal with it.
So, what you're basically saying is:
It bothers Saddam Rushy that no one has sat down and created the entire TES universe out of stone and said "this is as it shall be forever and ever."
Very amusing.
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Well, yeah, but at least they bother to pretend it fits into the story by explaining the mechanics before hand. TES, Harry Potter, and other "MAGIC!" fictions just throw that shit in your face and say deal with it.
So, what you're basically saying is:
It bothers Saddam Rushy that no one has sat down and created the entire TES universe out of stone and said "this is as it shall be forever and ever."
Very amusing.
That was actually the point of this conversation and it is admittedly unexpected you'd call yourself out on it. I'm still left wondering whether you are or aren't okay with TES' lore logic.
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I'm not sure what you mean by that. I don't like retcons, or changing the already-established details of the universe, but adding new details and providing history where there was none previously is a very good thing.
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I'm not sure what you mean by that. I don't like retcons, or changing the already-established details of the universe, but adding new details and providing history where there was none previously is a very good thing.
I assumed this was a retcon.
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Another symptom of the "Skyrim is terrible" mentality rubbing off on me seems to have manifested. After a few minutes of casually watching a friend play Skyrim, I was reminded of the dumb homogenizing that the Nordic pantheon received. Everyone from the Greybeards to the Stormcloaks proudly declares their devotion to Kynareth rather than Kyne, Stendarr rather than Stuhn, etc. It's ridiculous. The only god that's kept true to his roots is Shor.
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Another symptom of the "Skyrim is terrible" mentality rubbing off on me seems to have manifested. After a few minutes of casually watching a friend play Skyrim, I was reminded of the dumb homogenizing that the Nordic pantheon received. Everyone from the Greybeards to the Stormcloaks proudly declares their devotion to Kynareth rather than Kyne, Stendarr rather than Stuhn, etc. It's ridiculous. The only god that's kept true to his roots is Shor.
Not all of them do that, just most, which makes sense since they've been under Imperial rule for, what, a few hundred years? Just look at how quickly Christianity wore down various pagan religions within that same time span.
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Another symptom of the "Skyrim is terrible" mentality rubbing off on me seems to have manifested. After a few minutes of casually watching a friend play Skyrim, I was reminded of the dumb homogenizing that the Nordic pantheon received. Everyone from the Greybeards to the Stormcloaks proudly declares their devotion to Kynareth rather than Kyne, Stendarr rather than Stuhn, etc. It's ridiculous. The only god that's kept true to his roots is Shor.
The Greybeards were normal little boys growing up in normal Nordic homes once. Those normal Nordic homes worship Kynareth and Stendarr. Why should they start revering Kyne and Stuhn just because they became wise old monks? And even if they did come from families that worshipped Kyne and Stuhn, they might merely use the Cyrodiilic names because those are the most common names, and the Dragonborn might not know any better...
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Not all of them do that, just most, which makes sense since they've been under Imperial rule for, what, a few hundred years? Just look at how quickly Christianity wore down various pagan religions within that same time span.
Over six hundred years. However, Nords have historically stuck to their own gods and barely tolerated foreign ones, even when ruled by previous empires, and as recently as Oblivion were confirmed to still be as stubborn and traditionally-minded as always. The mass conversion must have happened in only the two hundred years separating those games.
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Over six hundred years. However, Nords have historically stuck to their own gods and barely tolerated foreign ones, even when ruled by previous empires, and as recently as Oblivion were confirmed to still be as stubborn and traditionally-minded as always. The mass conversion must have happened in only the two hundred years separating those games.
But isn't Skyrim supposed to depict the downturn of humans in general, including the muddying of their belief systems? I think it fits the narrative pretty well for Nords to start to become less and less aware of their past while their future is simultaneously becoming rather bleak.
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If that was their intention, then they screwed it up by focusing on the conflict over Talos. With the exception of this guy (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Froki_Whetted-Blade), there's nothing in the game that addresses or even acknowledges this sudden religious shift. I can't prove this, obviously, but I think this just came down to Bethesda going, "Oh, we can't have two pantheons, that'll confuse the kids! Better just keep it to one." Which is kind of funny, because TESO provides in-depth explorations of the religious beliefs of pretty much every culture on Tamriel, and I haven't heard any complaints about it being too complex or confusing. Say what you like about game design, but at least as far as writing goes, ZeniMax clearly has more faith in the intelligence of the players than Bethesda does. That might be due in part to the fact that ZeniMax specifically hired, get this, actual writers to handle the game's writing, rather than adopting Bethesda's strategy of apparently just asking around the office for anyone who's willing to work an extra shift to do the writing.
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Talos is one of the Imperial nine, though, not necessarily part of the original Nord pantheon (which has been mostly forgotten). The Nords were pretty happy with the Empire in general until the Aldmeri conquest.
It sounds more like you are looking for things to complain about. Bethesda has sub-par writing, yes, but I doubt that sub-par writing directly stems from Bethesda thinking its players are dumb.
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The Nords revered Talos because he was Dragonborn. Many Nords could not look at him without seeing a dragon.
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The Nords revered Talos because he was Dragonborn. Many Nords could not look at him without seeing a dragon.
Then many Nords are severely vision handicapped.
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If the lore magics it away well, then it will make logical sense (within the continuity of the universe, of course).
No. In a universe where magic doesn't have to follow a given set of guidelines then it will never make logical sense. They're going by Harry Potter rules: magic does what is most convenient for the plot at any given time.
Brandon Sanderson wrote on this. He called it Hard Magic and Soft Magic. Harry Potter, as noted, uses soft magic meaning that it doesn't follow many rules. With a soft magic system, the reader is left with a wider sense of wonder because literally anything can happen and be explained by magic. Other soft systems include "A Song of Fire and Ice" or any Dungeons and Dragons book ever written. This style leaves stores very prone to fall into deus ex machina traps for solving situations.
Other side is hard magic systems where everything is explained in great detail. Wolverine's magical powers are an example of this. He has magic claws and magic healing powers and they are pretty well defined. He can't, for instance, start flying for no reason and explain it as magic (or mutation in this case). Stories of this type will more often let the protagonist solve their problems with their magic without it feeling deus ex machina-ish.
Now, Elder Scrolls, as well as most fantasy games, strikes and interesting duality between the two. The character you play operates under a very strict hard magic system; you can't just start doing something that your class can't do. Yet, the NPC's are able to preform great feats of magic well beyond the scope of a players abilities. NPC's often possess a strikingly powerful array of magic abilities that PC's at a much higher level can't obtain. How often have you stumbled upon a ruined castle in a game and found a necromancer 20 levels below you that moved into town, turned the common folk undead, and now commands an entire dungeon of ex-townsfolk minions (of something of the ilk) and wonder why you can't do that?
Well, the why is easy, it's OP. But the sacrifice here is loss of flavor in lieu of a bigger and more wondrous magical world.
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Talos is one of the Imperial nine, though, not necessarily part of the original Nord pantheon (which has been mostly forgotten). The Nords were pretty happy with the Empire in general until the Aldmeri conquest.
It sounds more like you are looking for things to complain about. Bethesda has sub-par writing, yes, but I doubt that sub-par writing directly stems from Bethesda thinking its players are dumb.
Certainly Talos wasn't part of the original Nordic pantheon, seeing how that predated his existence by thousands of years. I suppose the fact that Talos is a favorite son of Skyrim explains his popularity there, but I think it wouldn't have been too hard to maybe extend the Thalmor's hostility towards his worship to the rest of the non-Aldmeric gods as well. In general, I find that the more unique and different a culture is, the more interesting it is to explore. The Nords turning to the Imperial pantheon between games made Skyrim just a little bit less compelling.
Brandon Sanderson wrote on this. He called it Hard Magic and Soft Magic. Harry Potter, as noted, uses soft magic meaning that it doesn't follow many rules. With a soft magic system, the reader is left with a wider sense of wonder because literally anything can happen and be explained by magic. Other soft systems include "A Song of Fire and Ice" or any Dungeons and Dragons book ever written. This style leaves stores very prone to fall into deus ex machina traps for solving situations.
Other side is hard magic systems where everything is explained in great detail. Wolverine's magical powers are an example of this. He has magic claws and magic healing powers and they are pretty well defined. He can't, for instance, start flying for no reason and explain it as magic (or mutation in this case). Stories of this type will more often let the protagonist solve their problems with their magic without it feeling deus ex machina-ish.
Now, Elder Scrolls, as well as most fantasy games, strikes and interesting duality between the two. The character you play operates under a very strict hard magic system; you can't just start doing something that your class can't do. Yet, the NPC's are able to preform great feats of magic well beyond the scope of a players abilities. NPC's often possess a strikingly powerful array of magic abilities that PC's at a much higher level can't obtain. How often have you stumbled upon a ruined castle in a game and found a necromancer 20 levels below you that moved into town, turned the common folk undead, and now commands an entire dungeon of ex-townsfolk minions (of something of the ilk) and wonder why you can't do that?
Well, the why is easy, it's OP. But the sacrifice here is loss of flavor in lieu of a bigger and more wondrous magical world.
I agree with all of this. However, I think it's fair to point out that at least as far as the background lore and worldbuilding of TES goes, new additions are largely built on the foundations that previous games (and even Kirkbride's weird OOG ramblings) built, leading to an expanded world that feels much more "plausible" and satisfying than many other fantasy franchises. To continue picking on Harry Potter for a moment, the problem with the new information about magic that each book provided was that it was all disparate. We would learn about Spell A, and that was it as far as Spell A went. Then we would learn about Spell B, and Spell C, and so on. There was no real connection between them in the greater world of magic. Not so with TES. Now, returning to The Remnant of Light, we can put it into a bit more context by also looking at this book (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Aurbic_Enigma_4:_The_Elden_Tree). Consider:
The spike of Ada-Mantia, and its Zero Stone, dictated the structure of reality in its Aurbic vicinity, defining for the Earth Bones their story or nature within the unfolding of the Dragon's (timebound) Tale. The Aldmeri or Merethic Elves were singular of purpose only so long as it took them to realize that other Towers, with their own Stones, could tell different stories, each following rules inscribed by Variorum Architects. And so the Mer self-refracted, each to their own creation, the Chimer following Red-Heart, the Bosmer burgeoning Green-Sap, the Altmer erecting Crystal-Like-Law, et alia.
...
[t]he arch-mage Anumaril fangled an eightfold Staff of Towers, each segment a semblance of a tower in its Dance. And then seven of these segments were borne by White-Gold Knights to distant Fold-Places, where they were hidden.
Remembering that Remnant began with this Anumaril giving Filestis a Remnant of Light and asking him to take it to the "cold sunset limit of Tamriel" (probably Skyrim), it seems safe to conclude that the Remnant was one of the eight pieces of the Staff of Towers. And if the Towers can dictate the reality of the surrounding area, then it makes sense to suppose that the fragments of this magical staff, based on the Towers, can too. So, the changed climate of High Rock wasn't just something that the writers pulled out of their asses, but a natural extension of Tower lore, which has its roots in games like Daggerfall and Morrowind.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the Nord gods basically Nordicisations of the Imperial pantheon? (Kyne instead of Kynareth, for example?) In face of the resurgent elves and the chaos after the Oblivion crisis, maybe the Imperials simply imposed a standardisation in order to try to better unify the weaker human empire but left them mostly with their own traditions to placate the traditionalists (hence the little shrines instead of the Temples of the Nine found in Cyrodil, and the houses of the dead, instead of the graveyards and crypts?) I got the impression that the banning of Talos-worship was just the final straw in a long line of impositions from the Empire that Skyrim had simply grumbled about but grudgingly accepted?
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The Imperial Pantheon is pretty much a mix of the Elven and Nordic Pantheon with some of the names changed.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the Nord gods basically Nordicisations of the Imperial pantheon? (Kyne instead of Kynareth, for example?) In face of the resurgent elves and the chaos after the Oblivion crisis, maybe the Imperials simply imposed a standardisation in order to try to better unify the weaker human empire but left them mostly with their own traditions to placate the traditionalists (hence the little shrines instead of the Temples of the Nine found in Cyrodil, and the houses of the dead, instead of the graveyards and crypts?) I got the impression that the banning of Talos-worship was just the final straw in a long line of impositions from the Empire that Skyrim had simply grumbled about but grudgingly accepted?
It was the other way around, actually. Alessia took gods from both the Nordic and Aldmeric pantheons and gave them Imperialized names to serve as a sort of compromise between her new Nordic and Mer subjects.
I have now beaten Knights of the Nine! I liked it overall. It wasn't a masterpiece, but there were some neat puzzles, cool visuals, and intriguing new lore. Speaking of the lore, though, I was disappointed by what little influence it actually had on the questline. Just from their brief appearances in the new books, Alessia, Pelinal, and Morihaus all came across as very interesting and complex characters. So it's too bad that rather than letting you learn more about and/or interact with them, Bethesda instead decided to make the bulk of the questline revolve around nine incredibly bland and forgettable ghosts who all have the exact same personality. Bah.
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Ok. I just got Elder Scrolls Arena and DaggerFall. I can't get the other three without paying for special codes to use them, from what I understand. So, before I play them (I have downloaded them, but not yet played them), what am I expecting? Eric said that my computer wouldn't even play Skyrim with all the mods he's put on it, because there is so much shit that he's added. I don't know if would handle the standard version. I would think it would.
So, fire ahead. What am I going to expect here?
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And is there anywhere that I can find something resembling instructions, or should I just go back to friend and say, "Hey, help me!"
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If you got them from elderscrolls.com, both games should include PDF's with instructions on how to use dosbox to run the games. If you need more help, use a search engine or ask your questions here.
And here's the Skyrim system requirements (pasted from the Steam page). If you know anything about your computer, this should give you an idea of how well it can run Skyrim.
MINIMUM:
OS: Windows 7/Vista/XP PC (32 or 64 bit)
Processor: Dual Core 2.0GHz or equivalent processor
Memory: 2GB System RAM
Hard Disk Space: 6GB free HDD Space
Video Card: Direct X 9.0c compliant video card with 512 MB of RAM
Sound: DirectX compatible sound card
RECOMMENDED:
Processor: Quad-core Intel or AMD CPU
Memory: 4GB System RAM
Video Card: DirectX 9.0c compatible NVIDIA or AMD ATI video card with 1GB of RAM (Nvidia GeForce GTX 260 or higher; ATI Radeon 4890 or higher)
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We can see many parallels between the Jewish people and the Dunmer. Take note in particular of the prophet Veloth, who led his people on a great migration into the promised land of Resdayn. However, be wary of the Redguards. It would be easy to dismiss them as token blacks, but their culture has some Islamic influences as well.
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Crowns carry over from one megaserver to the other. However, all items purchased via the Crown Store are only available on the server where they were purchased. So if you buy a pet on the NA megaserver, it will only be available when playing on the North American megaserver. If you want the pet to be available when playing on the European megaserver, you will need to purchase that pet on the European server.
On the notion of greed.
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Behold, an illuminating interview with ZeniMax's lead lore wizard:
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/eso-live-episode-15-lore-time-lawrence-schick
On the notion of malleable lore and poorly-disguised retcons (I'm sure Rushy will love this):
[A]ll the lore in the game is delivered from the standpoint of people in Tamriel. In that way, Elder Scrolls is different from most fantasy campaign worlds, right? I mean, the typical paradigm, you know - George RR Martin with Westeros, Tolkien with Middle Earth, the familiar D&D worlds of The Forgotten Realms or the world of Greyhawk - those all have histories and backgrounds that are all laid out and they’ve all got some lore-daddy who decided everything and everything is ‘this is how it is’, so everything works within the envelope of things that are already decided.
Elder Scrolls - Tamriel - does not follow that paradigm. In Elder Scrolls, all lore is delivered not from on high by revelation, but from people who live their lives in the game, in the world of the game, and based on their beliefs. So that does two things for us: It means the lore always carries not just information about what the person is talking about, but also information about the person and their culture. Because the way the lore is delivered tells you how they believe things actually work in the world.
What this means, of course, is that people have different viewpoints - these viewpoints sometimes contradict each other, and so sometimes we have players saying “alright, this person believes that, and that person believes this other thing, but which one’s the real thing?” Well... it’s not a world like ours. In a world like ours, where you can sort of trust in science and say “well yes, people have different beliefs but I know there is an objective reality.” This is a world of myth. This is a world where reality is actually changeable, where the Divines can change not only what happens going forward, but what has happened in the past. So, you know, the idea there is an objective reality behind all these different people’s opinions is not necessarily the case in the world of Tamriel. So listen to what all these different people have to say, make up your own mind, make up your own beliefs about what happened and you’re as liable - since you’re playing in their world and you’re playing a character in their world - what you think happened is as legitimate as what that NPC thinks.
On the notion of the Tsaesci and their true form:
The Tsaesci were the Akaviri who invaded back in the First Era, and whose invasion was stopped by Reman who then became Reman I, Emperor of Tamriel and the first emperor of the Second Empire.
And they were referred to as the ‘snake-people.’ And there have been, you know, various accounts of them as being... as having various serpentine aspects to them. What we do know however is that you can find Akaviri armour in the game and, you know, if you are a human - or an elf - you can put this on. So how different could they have been if you can wear their armour? But on the other hand, you know, maybe they were shape-shifters? Some people think that’s true too. It just depends who you ask.
Then of course, the Akaviri who then invaded ten years prior to the start of Elder Scrolls Online, those weren’t the Tsaesci, those were the Kamal and they’re different and… but we won’t go into them today.
On the notion of Vvardenfell:
What’s going on in Vvardenfell? So I can give you the current situation there in general outlines without having to go into character or anything. Vvardenfell... Much of it is still - I wouldn’t say wasteland - but the central part of Vvardenfell is largely inhabited by nomadic Ashlander tribes, the east coast of Vvardenfell, along the inner sea, facing the Telvanni Peninsular - there are various places there that are of value to the Telvanni Mage Lords so they have more or less claimed the eastern coast of Vvardenfell. Then there is the upper north-west portion, that faces Blacklight across the sea there, and where there are exploitable resources and things there, that’s pretty much administered by the Great House Dunmer from Blacklight.
But Vvardenfell in the Second Era, during the time of Elder Scrolls Online, is lightly peopled and we do hope eventually to go there, because that was so much fun in Morrowind, but it’s not currently on the slate of anything that we are working on. I hope that adequately answered the question.
On the notion of Mike the Liar:
Gina: M’aiq the Liar I assume?
Lawrence: M-ike the Liar, that’s right.
Gina: Dammit, is it ‘Mike’? I’ve always said ‘Maq’. There’s another one!
Lawrence: M-ike. It’s M-ike. [[He emphasizes the pause in the middle of the word.]] It’s got a little glottal stop in the middle of it.
lore lore lore
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Behold, an illuminating interview with ZeniMax's lead lore wizard:
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/eso-live-episode-15-lore-time-lawrence-schick
On the notion of malleable lore and poorly-disguised retcons (I'm sure Rushy will love this):
[A]ll the lore in the game is delivered from the standpoint of people in Tamriel. In that way, Elder Scrolls is different from most fantasy campaign worlds, right? I mean, the typical paradigm, you know - George RR Martin with Westeros, Tolkien with Middle Earth, the familiar D&D worlds of The Forgotten Realms or the world of Greyhawk - those all have histories and backgrounds that are all laid out and they’ve all got some lore-daddy who decided everything and everything is ‘this is how it is’, so everything works within the envelope of things that are already decided.
Elder Scrolls - Tamriel - does not follow that paradigm. In Elder Scrolls, all lore is delivered not from on high by revelation, but from people who live their lives in the game, in the world of the game, and based on their beliefs. So that does two things for us: It means the lore always carries not just information about what the person is talking about, but also information about the person and their culture. Because the way the lore is delivered tells you how they believe things actually work in the world.
What this means, of course, is that people have different viewpoints - these viewpoints sometimes contradict each other, and so sometimes we have players saying “alright, this person believes that, and that person believes this other thing, but which one’s the real thing?” Well... it’s not a world like ours. In a world like ours, where you can sort of trust in science and say “well yes, people have different beliefs but I know there is an objective reality.” This is a world of myth. This is a world where reality is actually changeable, where the Divines can change not only what happens going forward, but what has happened in the past. So, you know, the idea there is an objective reality behind all these different people’s opinions is not necessarily the case in the world of Tamriel. So listen to what all these different people have to say, make up your own mind, make up your own beliefs about what happened and you’re as liable - since you’re playing in their world and you’re playing a character in their world - what you think happened is as legitimate as what that NPC thinks.
No TES, you aren't cooler than Westeros or Middle-Earth. Both of those respective universes are filled with mysteries that differ depending on the reader, in fact Tolkien is quite famous for leaving many mysteries in his works. For example, the R+L=J theory in Westeros and Tom Bombadil in Middle-Earth.
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Is the TESO community cool still since they went Free to play? Or do they want people to know what they are doing and/or bitch kitties?
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If you want answers, you should try to put more effort into making some sense.
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If you want answers, you should try to put more effort into making some sense.
Maybe work on your reading comprehension?
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No TES, you aren't cooler than Westeros or Middle-Earth. Both of those respective universes are filled with mysteries that differ depending on the reader, in fact Tolkien is quite famous for leaving many mysteries in his works. For example, the R+L=J theory in Westeros and Tom Bombadil in Middle-Earth.
I don't agree. Most of the lore that Tolkien created is provided to the reader via omniscient narration (the appendices of LotR come to mind) or exposition by extremely reliable and knowledgeable characters, like Gandalf or Elrond. There are a few Tom Bombadil-like elements in there, but they're very much the exception, not the rule. ASOIAF does make use of unreliable narrators, but I don't think it embraces ambiguity as an end in itself (rather than being purely temporary) to the extent that TES does. Like, the question of Jon's parentage is hardly an inherently unknowable aspect of the lore, it's just an as of yet unresolved plot detail.
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No TES, you aren't cooler than Westeros or Middle-Earth. Both of those respective universes are filled with mysteries that differ depending on the reader, in fact Tolkien is quite famous for leaving many mysteries in his works. For example, the R+L=J theory in Westeros and Tom Bombadil in Middle-Earth.
I don't agree. Most of the lore that Tolkien created is provided to the reader via omniscient narration (the appendices of LotR come to mind) or exposition by extremely reliable and knowledgeable characters, like Gandalf or Elrond. There are a few Tom Bombadil-like elements in there, but they're very much the exception, not the rule. ASOIAF does make use of unreliable narrators, but I don't think it embraces ambiguity as an end in itself (rather than being purely temporary) to the extent that TES does. Like, the question of Jon's parentage is hardly an inherently unknowable aspect of the lore, it's just an as of yet unresolved plot detail.
It is now, given everyone that knew the truth (besides 1 person that hasn't appeared in the story at all) is dead.
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You don't know that. There could easily be a witness or confidant to what happened that we simply haven't been introduced to yet, or there might even be documentation or other physical evidence explaining the mystery. And if some of the "complementary" fan theories to R+L=J turn out to be true as well (like Jon becoming one of the dragon's heads), Jon will have to discover his true parentage one way or another. So I don't think it's really comparable to ambiguous concepts from TES like Dragon Breaks, CHIM, the Towers, etc.
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Bran is going to discover that R+L=J is the truth by worg'ing into a godswood tree. You heard it here first.
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I just came across this open-source implementation of Morrowind:
https://openmw.org/en/
It still requires the original game data files, but it should allow me to play Morrowind without the use of Wine. I'll give it a spin at some point over the weekend and report back with my experience.
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Nice report!
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I have completed Tribunal, the first expansion for Morrowind. Ostensibly set chronologically after the events of the main quest (despite the fact that for some reason it begins automatically once it's installed, forcing many a new player to have to fight a Dark Brotherhood assassin far more powerful than they are), the plot is intended to tie up the loose ends of the game's story, particularly regarding the eponymous Tribunal. How does it hold up? Not very well, unfortunately. The story is the biggest problem, and that's a real surprise, given that it's still Morrowind. It sends you on a series of quests where the only way to advance the story is to idiotically work for some very obvious antagonists and blindly complete every awful task they set you, such as fetching them dangerous, cursed artifacts, coercing honest journalists, and most outrageously of all, using some Dwemer machinery to bombard Mournhold with a series of ash storms so that Almalexia can fool the population into thinking that she still has her divine power. It's ridiculous.
The lore also disappoints, particularly with how the remaining two members of the Tribunal are represented. Almalexia has none of the gravitas or eloquence of Vivec and Dagoth Ur; instead, she just comes across as vain, petty, and selfish, more like a spoiled diva than a goddess. And poor Sotha Sil turns out to have been long since dead, preventing us from learning anything from the man (mer) himself. However, I do really like the Clockwork City he built that you get to visit. It's a unique, fun dungeon with an intriguing sci-fi vibe that incorporates mechanical gears and hydraulics. Oh yeah, and you get to meet the ghost of a Dwemer. They're not fucking dwarves.
In short, pretty crappy. Kirkbride once said that he wished he had stayed at Bethesda to work on Tribunal, so that he could have developed Almalexia and Sotha Sil as much as he did Vivec. That would have been a nice start at improving this.
On the notion of Skyrim's homogeneous religious beliefs:
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/1zw5p0/femininity_in_tamrielic_faith_part_1_mara/cfy3lu8
Look at the thread on the official forums (forget where). TESV: Skyrim's religion and religious practices were gutted during development for a more standardized Imperial view*.
Some of the ideas remain, but it was once going to be as rich and complex as TESIII: Morrowind's.
EDIT: I'm being generous here.
And on the notion of dumbing the series down.
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sadaam
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you get to meet the ghost of a Dwemer. They're not fucking dwarves.
Well, that depends on the Dwemer. Certainly if a Dwemer decided to bang another Dwemer, they would indeed be fucking a dwarf.
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you get to meet the ghost of a Dwemer. They're not fucking dwarves.
Well, that depends on the Dwemer. Certainly if a Dwemer decided to bang another Dwemer, they would indeed be fucking a dwarf.
(http://thumb101.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/1064/1064,1205384213,7/stock-photo-laughing-businessman-10317550.jpg)
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<Saddam> Anastas: We were going to see Shor in Skyrim
<Saddam> He'd have been sitting on his throne in Sovngarde
<Anastas> Were we
<Saddam> But one of the devs felt uncomfortable with depicting a god, so they didn't put him in
<Saddam> Even though Tsun is a god too
<Saddam> Dumb uncomfortable people ruining things for the rest of us
<Saddam> If he had been there, it would have lent much support for my theory about Lorkhan's "true" form being shaped by popular belief depending on the region
<Anastas> What the fuck
<Anastas> You see gods all the time in that series
<Saddam> Yes
<Anastas> I hate BGS
<Anastas> They are dead to me
<Saddam> I bet F4 won't even be that good
<Pongo> Fracking BSG.
<Saddam> Every TES game from now on should feature Michael Kirkbride doing all the writing and art and Todd Howard doing all the voice-acting
<Anastas> Agread agread agread
Source (https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/2i4e33/okay_so_where_is_shor_really/ckyt1uq).
...
It looks like Redguard and Battlespire are finally available to be bought legally:
http://www.gog.com/game/the_elder_scrolls_adventures_redguard
http://www.gog.com/game/an_elder_scrolls_legend_battlespire
This version of Redguard is hopefully less buggy than the one I played, but I'm not sure if anyone here would really have the patience to see it through. It's very well-written (the great Kirkbride worked on it), the lore is intriguing, and the dungeons are probably the most unique of the series, being heavily influenced by Tomb Raider, but there's no denying that both graphically and in terms of gameplay, it's aged terribly. I haven't played Battlespire, but that game introduced many of the series' science-fantasy elements. For example, the Battlespire is apparently a spaceship that travels through Oblivion.
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I've completed Bloodmoon! It was pretty good overall. Solstheim is a neat setting (and the use of fog feels much more natural there than it does on Vvardenfell), the quests are immersive and atmospheric, and the lore is unique and well-written. And on that last point, I'm still mad about what Bethesda did with so much of the Nord lore before Skyrim came out. The Nords of the Skaal tribe are quite a bit different to the Nords of Skyrim, certainly - they're monotheistic, and they seem to be heavily inspired by the Inuit - but there are still a few hints with the dialogue and some of the creatures that you face that indicate what the religion and culture of Skyrim should have been like. I'm worried about what's going to happen with the next TES game now. Will it be set in Hammerfell, for example, and have all the Redguards just talk about the same old Imperial gods and not Ruptga, Tu'whacca, the HoonDing, etc.?
Back to the add-on, I basically have two big criticisms with it. One is how brutally difficult it is. The enemies here are ball-crushingly tough, and there are a ton of them. The final quest in particular is a nightmare to get through. Also, much like Morrowind's main quest, it suffers from a lack of decent setup and context. The option to go to Solstheim is available from the beginning of the game, but there's no good reason to go from an in-game perspective, as every single character whom you can mention Solstheim to (virtually everyone, with only a couple of exceptions) will just repeat the "terrible place" line. And when you do get there and start completing quests, you're given very little information about what's going on and why the things you're doing are relevant to saving the day. It's back to the old "This is very important but u donut even no it and I walnut tell u y." The significance of the Bloodmoon Prophecy and what Hircine is up to aren't explained to you until the beginning of the very last quest. I don't understand why they felt the need to keep all this a secret. Sometimes withholding information from the player can add to the mystery or suspense, but they still need to be told enough about the overall storyline to understand what they're doing and what their overall goal is.
That's really only an issue with the main quest, though. There are plenty of fun and interesting sidequests, and I really liked the new guild, the East Empire Company, where you help Raven Rock develop into a prosperous mining colony over time.
...
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/3k1b96/on_the_nords_totemic_religion/
What a strange coincidence, given my recent rants about Skyrim's failure to give us a distinctive, unique religion. They were indeed originally planning to give us a complex and interesting religion of the Nords, one that fit in with the existing lore while expanding it greatly. We got the plain old Imperial pantheon instead. It's sad to have been let down so badly.
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lore lore lore
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Their technology isn't so bad. They constructed automotons that we would have difficulty recreating with today's technology.
We could make a lot cooler shit if soul power was a thing. I'm pretty sure Hitler would have made Jew-powered missiles or something. Given what the Dwemer have available, their technology blows. Every single one of their ruins has open-air mechanically driven steam pipes. That's awful, just awful, and it's even worse knowing they are from the future.
Dwemer technology was built in such a way that it would almost never rust or break down, still be operational after thousands of years with literally no maintenance or oversight, and run perpetually despite there being no apparent source of energy producing the steam. You don't think that's advanced? And let's not forget the Numidium, an achievement so remarkable that its construction broke all the laws of physics and erased the Dwemer from the face of Nirn. And speaking of which - I know I said I wouldn't bump old posts in this thread anymore, but this is relevant, and it needs to be addressed:
Funny, history isn't my specialty, but I can't quite recall Mesopotamians having steampunk architecture and technology.
They also didn't become part of the golden skin of a giant robot or create animunculi. As I said, the connection is superficial, but it's more significant than the connection to Dorfs.
Outside of Kirkbride's vicarious Vivec (Vivecarious?) fanfics, the idea that the Dwemer were literally transformed into Numidium's skin is probably his weakest OOG addition to lore. It's far too superficial, too mundane, too physical a solution to a mystery that's supposed to be steeped in the strange metaphysics of the universe. I don't think the mystery of exactly what happened to the Dwemer will ever be properly answered in the games, nor do I think it ever should be, but that theory is just too dumb to merit serious consideration.
After some further research, I've realized that I made a mistake here. The idea of the Dwemer literally becoming Numidium's skin didn't come from Kirkbride, but instead, some random guy's very poorly-written fanfic (http://www.imperial-library.info/content/final-report-trebonius). I'll grant that the Skeleton Man interview he cites does hint at the idea as well, but the wording there is a lot more ambiguous and open to interpretation, and the specific character probably isn't the most reliable source. But now I've seen a lot of lore-minded fans point to this as if it's the canonical truth and shout down anyone who points out that it's nothing more than one fan's speculation. These two threads in particular are very annoying:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/615803-the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/65624436
http://www.gamesas.com/dwemer-t173141.html
I suspect that this might be some of the Morrowind fanbase elitism that I mentioned earlier in the thread. Certain Morrowang fanboys see people who were only introduced to the Dwemer through Skyrim or TESO talking about them and how mysterious they were, and feel the need to assert how much more enlightened they are than them. "Ha! Look at these noobs, they don't even know what happened to the Dwemer! It's so good to be one of the wise few who played through Morrowind (and read a few OOG speculations based on the game); we aren't troubled by these paltry concerns." No. Morrowind does provide a lot more information on the Dwemer than any other game, but that does not include the definitive answer to their ultimate fate. If all the wise scholars the Nerevarine spoke to about the subject couldn't confidently say what happened - and they couldn't - then neither can you.
And most importantly of all, that fanfic I linked to makes for some painful reading. A whiny, arrogant tone, several jumbled run-on sentences...it's just bad. At least Kirkbride's form is competent, whatever one might think of his content.
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They became the foreskin of the Numidium.
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(http://i.imgur.com/17WaOE3.jpg)
This is from the recent Imperial City add-on to TESO. It's obviously a not-so-subtle poke at Kirkbride's theory of Ayrenn being KINMUNE. lore lore lore
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I did it! I beat Daggerfall! Uh, what to say about it...well, for one thing, it's way too big. It is kind of refreshing at first to see the world presented in a more realistic size than it has been in other TES games, but there's no actual benefit to it as far as the gameplay goes, and it wears out its welcome very soon. Just shuffling around the layouts of these settlements doesn't make them unique enough to merit a visit. They're all still full of the same people dispensing the same generic quests and offering the same generic thoughts when spoken to. And speaking of generic locations repeated thousands of times, fuck these dungeons. I don't think I can express strongly enough how horrendous they are. Every single one of them is a labyrinthian nightmare full of dead ends, multiple floors, hidden switches, hidden teleporters, hidden doors, locked doors, hidden locked doors, and swarms of enemies attacking you at all times. Literally every single one. There are no easy dungeons, and there are no short ones. They all turn on beast mode and demand that you spend several frustrating hours trying to navigate each one, unless you do what I eventually did and use cheats to skip to the quest-relevant locations once inside.
It's also full of bugs and glitches, even after twenty years and numerous official and unofficial patches. Especially for quests involving those fucking dungeons. My favorite bug was one that happened during an optional part of the main quest, where a villainous noble tries to have you murdered. The quest ends when you confront one of the participants in the scheme, who sheepishly admits that he was paid to have you killed and gives you some money as a form of apology. The kicker is that this accomplice was supposed to be a random generic NPC, similar to most quests in the game, but due to some issue or another, the NPC always ends up being the king of the fledgling Orc kingdom. Basically, the last person in the world who'd be helping a corrupt Breton noble murder an enemy for petty cash. Well done, Bethesda. Anyway, make sure you save frequently if you play this, which also helps because of how easy it is to fuck up quests, including the main quest, due to human error. If you accidentally sell a quest item, you can't buy it back, so you're completely fucked. Most quests also have a pretty tough time limit, which is no saving.
On the notion of the story and lore. I like how the setup avoids immediately placing the world in great peril and declaring you the only true hero of destiny who can put an end to the chaos. Really doing that, too, not just pretending to the way Morrowind did. The Lysandus subplot isn't all that interesting - lift the curse, avenge his death, blah blah generic fantasy - but the other subplot, with the letter and the Totem, was really cool. The twist involving the letter's contents was genuinely surprising, but also made perfect narrative sense, and I especially loved the little touch of everyone sending you letters making their offers for the Totem. It was also interesting to see the lore of the series prior to its revamping with Redguard and the PGE. It's been improved dramatically since then, needless to say, although some of the books are pretty neat in their own right. My favorite was King Edward (http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:King_Edward), which unfortunately makes fuck-all sense in terms of lore, even simply as a work of historical fiction.
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Should I get Skyrim Remastered?
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Not if you haven't already gotten it for free on steam. Also, it's not a remaster, it's a 64-bit port. The word "remastered" isn't even in the name.
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Well, it is a remaster. The game has been graphically overhauled.
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Not if you haven't already gotten it for free on steam. Also, it's not a remaster, it's a 64-bit port. The word "remastered" isn't even in the name.
You get it free? Why?
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Not if you haven't already gotten it for free on steam. Also, it's not a remaster, it's a 64-bit port. The word "remastered" isn't even in the name.
You get it free? Why?
People who already owned the Legendary edition of Skyrim got it for free.
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Well, it is a remaster. The game has been graphically overhauled.
Replacing textures is not remastering. Neither is adding a couple of shiny graphical effects.
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Well, it is a remaster. The game has been graphically overhauled.
Replacing textures is not remastering. Neither is adding a couple of shiny graphical effects.
Actually yes, that's pretty much exactly what "remaster" means in the video game industry.
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None of the changes done to Skyrim Special Edition are significant enough to call the game "remastered". There are no updates to the 3d meshes. There's no updated sound or music (the sound was worse on release actually). There's no alteration to the world space aside from there being a little more and denser foilage. No animations have been touched upon. It's the same crap as the original, just a little more shiny, and on a more modern version of the engine.
Look at the original Final Fantasy 4
(http://gamecan.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/snes1.gif)
And compare it to the remastered version
(http://gamingbolt.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/final-fantasy-4-psp-screen.jpg)
Significant changes.
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I think you're confusing remasters with remakes. Of course it's the same old crap, it's the same game.
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Whatever it is, you still can't call it "remastered" with such minor changes done to it.
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Yes I can
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Okay you can, but it doesn't mean you're right.
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Not if you haven't already gotten it for free on steam. Also, it's not a remaster, it's a 64-bit port. The word "remastered" isn't even in the name.
You get it free? Why?
People who already owned the Legendary edition of Skyrim got it for free.
I don't own the Legendary edition and I got it for free. I think it goes to anyone who bought all the DLCs.
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Yes.
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The PS4 version of Skyrim SE has way higher quality sound than any other
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I belive the sound might have been patched. What I did though was take the sounds files from the original Skyrim and "mod" them over the SE.
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The PS4 version of Skyrim SE has way higher quality sound than any other
>playing a TES game on a console
Don't you know it's current year?
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Yeah lol. And enjoy them no-external-assets mods, haha.
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Well I'm not gonna get a new computer for Skyrim. For a really good game, maybe I would.
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On the notion of Daggerfall:
<beardo> Saddam: Lord Woodborne did nothing wrong.
<Georgoid> beardo: Lord Woodborne was a nobody the player was unfamiliar with and therefore a terrible villain
<Georgoid> I don't think he even had a motivation to kill Lysandus, did he?
<beardo> Saddam: Who did you give the totem to?
<Georgoid> I gave it to the Underking
<Georgoid> They probably should have just made that the canon ending
<Georgoid> Nobody else deserved it
<beardo> >not giving it to the crazy king of wayrest
<beardo> Also, it's interesting that due to the Warp in the West, Mannimarco both became a God, and didn't. That's why he's a mortal in Oblivion. Because he's both mortal and a God.
<beardo> Well, he wasn't a mortal in Daggerfall of course, since he was a lich
<beardo> Unless you'd call the undead mortals
<beardo> not sure I would
<beardo> Also, if Mannimarco was the first Lich ever, why are there liches in TESO?
<beardo> Him bein the first lich is probably not true. The liches in Oblivion are Ayleids.
<Crudblud> Licherino
<Georgoid> Doesn't explain why he's such a pussy in Oblivion
beardo is referring to this book (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mannimarco,_King_of_Worms) describing Mannimarco as "world's first of the undying liches." He was no such thing, as established by the same game that the book first appeared in. I will generously assume that such phrasing was simply an artistic flourish on the part of the author, meant to establish that Mannimarco was an unusually powerful lich. I'm still mad about how he was portrayed in Oblivion. That might be my biggest lore issue with the game, in fact. Also:
<beardo> Saddam: On the notion of Daggerfall https://twitter.com/gav_clayton/status/799780776141164544
<beardo> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxlhmfUUQAEeEJU.png:large
<Georgoid> Yes
<Crudblud> Daggerfall Unity actually doesn't look like complete trash
<Crudblud> That's pretty good
<Crudblud> Considering it is complete trash
<beardo> I will play Daggerfall Unity when it's done
<beardo> You'll actually be able to finish the fucking game without cheating like Saddam did, h4h4
<beardo> And give the totem to the crazy king of Wayrest like Saddam didn't.
<beardo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WrB95dKH0A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WrB95dKH0A)
<Crudblud> That's the full ending?
<beardo> It's the full Wayrest ending, yeah
<beardo> All the endings are similar, with just another dialogue and different pictures
<beardo> the skeleton is in all of them
<Crudblud> Great
<Georgoid> Still more effort than Bethesda put into F4's endings
<Crudblud> "My son is older than I am and I guess I learned some things but you know what? War never changes!"
<Blanko> It's like poetry, it rhymes
<Crudblud> Todd Howard wouldn't release anything less than perfection, he makes sure the writing staff go that extra mile
<Georgoid> Also, that is no mere skeleton
<Crudblud> It's mr skeltal himself
<Georgoid> It is Zurin Arctus, the Underking
<Crudblud> He's not looking so hot
<Crudblud> The exploding coffin trick is pretty nifty though, I'll give him that
Eadwyre is neither crazy nor a traitor to the Empire - he's seemingly implicated during the main quest, but is exonerated by the reveal of Woodborne as the culprit. And apparently he turns on you if you sell him the Totem, which is entirely out of character for him, while the villainous king of Daggerfall, Gothryd, pays you the gold he promised for it. I'd be willing to bet that Bethesda accidentally assigned each of these characters the other's reaction to being offered the Totem. On a similar note, I suspect that there was supposed to be a different ending cutscene for each faction, but somehow Bethesda fucked it up and had the player see the Underking no matter which faction you chose.
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I know he's not crazy. I just like to say that because he looks fucking crazy in the picture you see in the book during the ending.
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Well I'm not gonna get a new computer for Skyrim. For a really good game, maybe I would.
It's probably the best open world game there is.
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lol
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That might actually be the funniest video game-related thing I've ever read
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Instead of getting the Remastered Edition, I got the original one and set everything to ultra. Best $6.59 I've ever spent.
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Again. The name is Special Edition.
And as has been stated before in this thread, you get the Special Edition for free on Steam if you own the DLC's or the "Legendary Edition", which there really is no reason not to at this point if you have Skyrim on Steam, which you should if you have it on PC unless you're a retart.
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Again. The name is Special Edition.
And as has been stated before in this thread, you get the Special Edition for free on Steam if you own the DLC's or the "Legendary Edition", which there really is no reason not to at this point if you have Skyrim on Steam, which you should if you have it on PC unless you're a retart.
Obviously you only get the remastered version for free if you owned the original before it came out. Otherwise, there would be no point in making it cost more. Yes, I got it on PC with the DLCs, and this is my first time owning Skyrim.
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Why do you keep callin it that?
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Why do you keep callin it that?
Because he likes rustling your jimmies.
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The new Skyrim special edition game is in fact a remastering of the original game.
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The new Skyrim special edition game is in fact a remastering of the original game.
Is the remaster any good? I've never played the original so I don't have the insight others will on the remastered version.
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w3w
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The new Skyrim special edition game is in fact a remastering of the original game.
Is the remaster any good? I've never played the original so I don't have the insight others will on the remastered version.
It's graphically better but the audio is worse. No benefit to buying it if you own the PC game. The PC mods are still better.
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Why do you keep callin it that?
That's what it is.
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It's not its name. And no it's not. At most, it's "retouched".
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Stop this stupid argument right now.
Well I'm not gonna get a new computer for Skyrim. For a really good game, maybe I would.
It's probably the best open world game there is.
Incorrect. Skyrim does a lot of things well, but it's very thin as an RPG, the quest design seldom amounts to anything more interesting than a dungeon crawl, and many of the series' regular features, like the weapons, magic, and lore, were dumbed-down terribly. Morrowind is a far superior game.
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Stop this stupid argument right now.
Well I'm not gonna get a new computer for Skyrim. For a really good game, maybe I would.
It's probably the best open world game there is.
Incorrect. Skyrim does a lot of things well, but it's very thin as an RPG, the quest design seldom amounts to anything more interesting than a dungeon crawl, and many of the series' regular features, like the weapons, magic, and lore, were dumbed-down terribly. Morrowind is a far superior game.
Morrowind is just as generic as Skyrim with the bonus of having an extremely anti-user gameplay experience. Morrowind is the dumbed-down game, because it makes it quite clear that hardly any thought whatsoever went into making the game an enjoyable user experience.
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Morrowind is the dumbed-down game,
No puppet. No puppet. You're a puppet. You're the puppet.
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With his god destroyed, Wulfharth finds it hard to keep his form. He staggers out of Red Mountain to the battlefield beyond. The world has shaken and all of Morrowind is made of fire. A strong gale picks up, and blows his ashes back to Skyrim.
Wulfharth adopts and is adopted by the Nords then. Ysmir the Grey Wind, the Storm of Kyne. But through Lorkhan he lost his national identity. All he wants the Nords for is to kill the Tribunal. He raises a storm, sends in his people, and is driven back by Tribunal forces. The Dunmer are too strong now. Wulfharth goes underground to wait and strengthen and reform his body anew. Oddly enough, it is Almalexia who disturbs his rest, summoning the Underking to fight alongside the Tribunal against Ada'Soom Dir-Kamal, the Akaviri demon. Wulfharth disappears after Ada'Soom is defeated, and does not return for three hundred years.
It is the rumbling of the Greybeards that wake him. Though the Empire has crumbled, there are rumors that a chosen one will come to restore it. This new Emperor will defeat the Elves and rule a united Tamriel. Naturally, Wulfharth thinks he is the figure of prophecy. He goes directly to High Hrothgar to hear the Greybeards speak. When they do, Ysmir is blasted to ash again. He is not the chosen one. It is a warrior youth from High Rock. As the Grey Wind goes to find this boy, he hears the Greybeards' warning: remember the color of betrayal, King Wulfharth.
The Western Reach was at war. Cuhlecain, the King of Falkreath in West Cyrodiil, was in a bad situation. To make any bid at unifying the Colovian Estates, he needed to secure his northern border, where the Nords and Reachmen had been fighting for centuries. He allies with Skyrim at the Battle of Old Hroldan. Leading his forces was Hjalti Early-Beard. Hjalti was from the island kingdom of Alcaire, in High Rock, and would become Tiber Septim, the First Emperor of Tamriel.
Hjalti was a shrewd tactician, and his small band of Colovian troops and Nord berserkers broke the Reachman line, forcing them back beyond the gates of Old Hroldan. A siege seemed impossible, as Hjalti could expect no reinforcements from Falkreath. That night a storm came and visited Hjalti's camp. It spoke with him in his tent. At dawn, Hjalti went up to the gates, and the storm followed just above his head. Arrows could not penetrate the winds around him. He shouted down the walls of Old Hrol'dan, and his men poured in. After their victory, the Nords called Hjalti Talos, or Stormcrown.
Cuhlecain, with his new invincible general, unifies West Cyrodiil in under a year. No one can stand before Hjalti's storms. The Underking knows that if Hjalti is to become Emperor of Tamriel, he must first capture the Eastern Heartland. Hjalti uses them both. He needs Cuhlecain in the Colovian Estates, where foreigners are mistrusted. It is obvious why he needs Ysmir. They march on the East, the battlemages surrender before their armies, and they take the Citadel. Before Cuhlecain can be crowned, Hjalti secretly murders him and his loyalist contingent. These assassinations are blamed on the enemies of Cuhlecain, which, for political reasons, are still the Western Reach. Zurin Arctus, the Grand Battlemage (not the Underking), then crowns Hjalti as Tiber Septim, new Emperor of All Cyrodiil. After he captures the Imperial Throne, Septim finds the initial administration of a fully united Cyrodiil a time-consuming task. He sends the Underking to deal with Imperial expansion into Skyrim and High Rock. Ysmir, mindful that it might seem as if Tiber Septim is in two places at once, works behind the scenes. This period of levelheaded statesmanship and diplomacy, this sudden silence, heretofore unknown in the roaring tales of Talosian conquest, are explained away later. (The assassination story is embroidered—now it is popularly Talos' own throat that was cut.)
The human kingdoms are conquered, even Hammerfell, whose capture was figured to be an arduous task. The Underking wants a complete invasion, a chance to battle their foreign wind spirits himself, but Tiber Septim refutes him. He has already made a better plan, one that will seem to legitimize his rule. Cyrodiil supports the losing side of a civil war and are invited in. Finally, the Empire can turn its eyes onto the Elves.
The Underking continues to press on Tiber Septim the need to conquer Morrowind. The Emperor is not sure that it is a wise idea. He has heard of the Tribunal's power. The Underking wants his vengeance, and reminds Tiber Septim that he is fated to conquer the Elves, even the Tribunal. Arctus advises against the move but Septim covets the Ebony in Morrowind, as he sorely needs a source of capital to rebuild Cyrodiil after 400 years of war. The Underking tells him that, with the Tribunal dead, Septim might steal the Tribunal's power and use it against the High Elves (certainly the oldest enemies of Lorkhan, predating even the Tribunal). Summerset Isle is the farthest thing from Tiber Septim's mind. Even then, he was planning to send Zurin Arctus to the King of Alinor to make peace. The Ebony need wins out in the end. The Empire invades Morrowind, and the Tribunal give up. When certain conditions of the Armistice include not only a policy of noninterference with the Tribunal, but also, in the Underking's eyes, a validation of their religious beliefs, Ysmir is furious. He abandons the Empire completely. This was the betrayal the Greybeards spoke of. Or so he thinks.
Without the Underking's power, all ideas of conquering Tamriel vanish. Would've been nice, Septim thinks, but let's just worry about Cyrodiil and the human nations. Already there is a rebellion in Hammerfell.
Pieces of Numidium trickle in, though. Tiber Septim, always fascinated by the Dwarves, has Zurin Arctus research this grand artifact. In doing so, Arctus stumbles upon some of the stories of the war at Red Mountain. He discovers the reason the Numidium was made and some of its potential. Most importantly, he learns the Underking's place in the War. But Zurin Arctus was working from incomplete plans. He thinks it is the heart of Lorkhan's body that is needed to power the Numidium.
While Zurin Arctus is raving about his discovery, the prophecy finally becomes clear to Tiber Septim. This Numidium is what he needs to conquer the world. It is his destiny to have it. He contacts the Underking and says he was right all along. They should kill the Tribunal, and they need to get together and make a plan. While the Underking was away he realized the true danger of Dagoth-Ur. Something must to be done. But he needs an army, and his old one is available again. The trap is set.
The Underking arrives and is ambushed by Imperial guards. As he takes them on, Zurin Arctus uses a soulgem on him. With his last breath, the Underking's Heart roars a hole through the Battlemage's chest. In the end, everyone is dead, the Underking has reverted to ash, and Tiber Septim strolls in to take the soulgem. When the Elder Council arrives, he tells them about the second attempt on his life, this time by his trusted battle mage, Zurin Arctus, who was attempting a coup. He has the dead guards celebrated as heroes, even the one who was blasted to ash... He warns Cyrodiil about the dangers within, but says he has a solution to the dangers without. The Mantella.
The Numidium, while not the god Tiber Septim and the Dwemer hoped for (the Underking was not exactly Lorkhan, after all), it does the job. After its work on Summerset Isle a new threat appears—a rotting undead wizard who controls the skies. He blows the Numidium apart. But it pounds him into the ground with its last flailings, leaving only a black splotch. The Mantella falls into the sea, seemingly forever.
Meanwhile, Tiber Septim crowns himself the First Emperor of Tamriel. He lives until he is 108, the richest man in history. All aspects of his early reign are rewritten. Still, there are conflicting reports of what really happened, and this is why there is such confusion over such questions as: Why does Alcaire claim to be the birthplace of Talos, while other sources say he came from Atmora? Why does Tiber Septim seem to be a different person after his first roaring conquests? Why does Tiber Septim betray his battlemage? Is the Mantella the heart of the battlemage or is it the heart of Tiber Septim?
Tiber Septim is succeeded by his grandson, Pelagius Septim. Pelagius is just not of the same caliber. In truth, he's a little nervous with all these provinces. Then an advisor shows up.
“I was friends with your grandfather,” the Underking says, “He sent me to help you run the Empire."
Lore Lore Lore
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The Arcturian Heresy is interesting, but the idea that Wulfharth was the Underking instead of Arctus can't possibly be true. Although it is most likely right about Tiber Septim originally being Hjalti Early-Beard from High Rock. There's no way he came from Atmora, as the official history claims.
Morrowind is just as generic as Skyrim with the bonus of having an extremely anti-user gameplay experience. Morrowind is the dumbed-down game, because it makes it quite clear that hardly any thought whatsoever went into making the game an enjoyable user experience.
It's an enjoyable user experience once you get used to how it works. I won't pretend that the general clunkiness isn't a genuine flaw, but it's more than made up for by the imaginative world (no, I'm not talking about "giant mushrooms lol"), interesting plot, and broad options for roleplaying and character-building. Skyrim is obviously a much slicker, flashier, and more user-friendly game, but under those surface elements, it's nowhere near as rich an experience as Morrowind.
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They could both have been the Underking at different points in time.
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I'm playing through Skyrim right now and the atmosphere is amazing. In this type of game graphics do matter a lot. I don't really care about quests because I'm too busy delving into dank caverns and traipsing across mist laden forests.
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lel
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They could both have been the Underking at different points in time.
Given who the Underking was - the lich that endured for centuries when Tiber Septim used his soul to charge the Numidium and never gave it back afterwards - I would say that's not really possible. The Numidium could transcend time, but Septim himself only used it to conquer Cyrodiil once.
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Omg conflicting accounts! Just like history, myths and legends in real life!
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Maybe, but in what culture would a myth or legend like this originate? The obvious guess is the Nords, because of the focus on Wulfharth, but both in terms of style and narrative, this doesn't feel like a traditional story of theirs at all. There's usually an attempt at high-flown language to give them a sweeping, epic feel, while their heroes are straightforward badasses who basically just kill everyone and win great glory. It might be from a Shezarr cult in Cyrodiil, which would explain Wulfharth being portrayed as far more subtle and cunning than traditional Nord heroes, but I don't know if they'd be willing to also portray Tiber Septim as a traitorous backstabber. I wish we had gotten to see cults in Oblivion, or any of the cool shit contrasting the Colovian and Nibenese cultures. Stupid Bethesda dumbing down their games.
<Crudblud> "King Hrigabrigabog fucked the moon with his nostril hairs. And then my penis was a robot." - Michael Kirkbriderino on how Cyrodiil became a forest
<Saddam> He fucked the moon, meaning he fucked Lorkhan?
<Crudblud> What about the other moon?
<Saddam> Well
<Crudblud> "The other moon was my nipples" - Kinkbird
<Saddam> The Khajiit believe that Lorkhaj's body is represented by a third moon
<Saddam> Which you visit in ESO
<Saddam> By going on an intense drug trip
<Saddam> And yes, the distinction between Lorkhan and Lorkhaj is important
<Crudblud> "Then Lorkhan lactated on my face and King Hrigabrigabog fucked the milk with his eyeballs and the world was covered in sputum and I ate my own cock and then Patrick Stewart said 'That's fucking weird man' and I was like 'Dude I know but check this out' and I took a shit and it dragon broke my asshole" - Corkbitch
<Saddam> 10/10 want moar
<Crudblud> "Then Todd Howard showed up and fired me and proceeded to write alduin is real and he ent akatosh"
<Crudblud> THE END
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(http://i.imgur.com/qVM4HzQ.jpg)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEPYlJLvcEM
>tfw the ES game with the best story and writing also have the worst gameplay mechanics, controls and hardware optimization, making it borderline unplayable...
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On the notion of Michael Kirkbride's thoughts on Redguard:
No, I was actually referring to The Black Panthers and their radicalism.
As some people know I'm not really a fan of the United Colors of Beneton approach to Tamrielicreation, which smacks of white guilt and offensery rather than some holistic form of beautiful inclusion. Thus, it's my fault that the Asian analogues got eaten. Oops. Looks like others are bringing 'em back, though. But I promise my choice had nothing to do with Yellow Peril, it had to do with co-opting "coolness of color" without thinking about it intelligently and compassionately.
(Hunkers down for the flame.)
That said, when I started writing Redguard I really thought about how unique the black people of Tamriel were: they came in and kicked ass and slaughtered the indigenes while doing so. They invaded. It was the first time I had encountered the idea of "black imperialism"...and it struck me big time, as something 1) new, 2) potentially dangerous if taken as commentary, and 3) potentially rad if taken as commentary.
Who knows. AVault did say it had a story worthy of being on stage, and Michael Mack (Cyrus) once thanked me for giving him words that "Black folks don't get to say" (referring to Cyrus' speech and the reversal of Son to the Father)... which broke my heart and made me puff my chest all at the same time.
Which is a long way of saying: panther-love.
The weirdest thing-- and this is no joke-- I inexplicably pulled out the PGE Thursday night to read it. FOR NO REASON. I got all nostalgic and went, Hmm, the reason Cyrus is so fun is that he actually inhabits this world as the common man with an uncommon profession, i.e. adventuring. He doesn't question the world's weirdness, as that notion would never occur to him. It's just his world and he works with it. And not in the Doctor Who fashion, where of course he works with it, no matter how crazy, because Doctor Who is a Chaotic Fun crazy junkie who actively seeks out such situations (and God bless him for it). Cyrus "just" lives in Tamriel and, while he can get confused, baffled, angry at, or one-upped by its magical nature, he's not adventuring to test those boundaries or, hell, even find them. Where's the money in that?
Yes, Cyrus' level-headedness is a useful cypher, but I was there when he was created, and his character wasn't consciously infused with that literary device in mind. (At least not towards the magical hijinx; he was definitely used that way for the political stuff.) So then I went, Hmm, all future stories told about Cyrus need to be careful not to use him solely for that utility, or risk him becoming a gimmick.
So, of course, the next thought was: "Screw that, what if Cyrus just fought everyone in Tamrielic history?" which completely ran contrary to all my analysis. Cuz it just works like that.
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You have discovered the thirty-seventh Sermon of Vivec, which is a bending of the light, long past the chronicles of the Hortator who wore inconstant faces and ruled however they would, until apocalypse.
Vivec was borne by ribbons of water, which wrote their starward couplings in red. This was a new place of speed. His eyes broke on the spikes above the tower, where the Void Ghost squatted over a drake-scaled drum, imbecile in its rhythm. And he asked of it:
"Who are you, that need no signature at all?"
Three in sum, the robes of Ayem stretched towards the bright black rim of memory, roping an arc of purchase. This was a new sprinting task. And Seht held his swollen belly to its name, clockmaker's daughter, swimming the dead confession along a century of thread, Naming her, uneaten, a golden cache of Veloth and Velothi, for where else would they know to go?
"Go here: world without wheel, charting zero deaths, and echoes singing," Seht said, until all of it was done, and in the center was anything whatever.
And the red moment became a great howling unchecked, for the Provisional House was in ruin. And Vivec became as glass, a lamp, for the dragon's mane had broke, and the red moon bade him come.
"The sign of royalty is not this," a signal blueshift (female) told him, "There is no right lesson learned alone."
He refused the twine on her catching net, spiteful that an uncontinued people would not become fuller by their searching, and yet were wracked in their spirits for flight. But the male signals were offended, and Vivec took a fighting form. He undid his eastern light, saying to the ALMSIVI that through war, they had become brides in glass, which no power could observe.
The light bent, and Vivec donned a cuirass made of red plates of jewel, and a mask that marked him born in the lands of Man. Wheeling, he spread into an insect salve, worn on the neck of hist-bulbs when at challenge. He roared up and fed his fingers to mammoth ghosts. The signal fires wondered if they mistook this for surrender, for Vivec had told the void that he could learn to undo it all.
The light bent, and somewhere a history was finally undone. Of it, Vivec remembered the laughing of the netchimen of his village when the hunts were good. He marched with his father in the ash, growing strong in the hooks and sail, able to run a junk through silt. At eleven, he sung to an ashkhan. He became sick after Red Mountain, with the nix-blood and fever, and was infirm a hundred years. His mother survived him and laid his body at the altar of Padhome. She gave him her skin to wear into the underworld.
The light bent, and Vivec awoke and grew fangs, unwilling to make of herself a folding thing. This was a new and lunar promise. And in her Biting she tunneled up and then downward, while her brother and sister smeared across heaven, thin ruptures of dissent, food for scarabs and the Worm. She took her people and made them safe, and sat with Azura drawing her own husband's likeness in the dirt.
"For I have removed my left hand and my right, he will say," she said, "for that is how I shall win against them. Love alone and you shall know only mistakes of salt."
The worlding of the words is AMARANTH.
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<Rushy> skyrim vr turns you into even more of an overpowered maniac
<Rushy> since you can teleport as fast as you can click the trackpad, you can basically teleport across all of skyrim in only ten minutes, archers and mages have their range advantage disappear instantly
<Rushy> if you hold two different weapons, you can attack someone in front of you and behind you simultaneously
<Rushy> weapons no longer have a speed limit, so you can attack several times per second, causing DPS to go through the roof
<Parsifal> B E T H E S D A
<Rushy> the destruction magic is now actually fun, which I'm sure they didn't intend
<Rushy> punches do damage based on location, so if you hold your hand inside someone, it "punches" them thousands of times and they die nearly instantly
<Rushy> so basically I can go around and one-punch kill people
<Rushy> or I rip their heart out, whichever way you want to imagine it
<Rushy> NPCs have a pretty slow rotation limit so teleporting behind them is a great strategy
<Parsifal> Rushy: Basically Agent Smithing people tbh
<Rushy> but you must say "nothing personnel, kid"
<Rushy> the teleporting has a very ridiculous range, you can teleport to the top of castle walls, for example
<Rushy> also I turned on physical sneaking which is hilarious
<Rushy> I have to crouch to sneak
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<Rushy> so basically I can go around and one-punch kill people
Weird flex, but ok.