The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Theory => Topic started by: SiDawg on June 20, 2018, 06:08:46 AM

Title: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: SiDawg on June 20, 2018, 06:08:46 AM
We "know" GPS satelites send three signals: a unique ID, a location (where it is over the globe) and a time stamp for each signal it sends. A "receiver" uses signals from three or more GPS satelites to calculate position, based on the "Delta" or time passed between the time stamp in the signal, and the time on their GPS device. From the delta, you can work out how far you are from each satelite, and with three or more, you can determine the point where that delta "holds true" for all satelites. From the location information of each satelite, you can relate that information to a map of the globe, and "know" your position on that globe.

As far as flat earth is concerned, GPS can be "faked" from ground based locations. And it's true: triangulation is possible from ground based antennas. You can use cell phone towers to locate people for example, in exactly the same way as described above (time stamps, deltas, know location of the tower, map)

However, we also "know" GPS satelites move: they are not in geosyncronous orbit. Therefore, for two receivers (Fred and Wilma) measuring their location at different times (a and b), I'm saying it is impossible for land based signals to "spoof" that information

(https://i.imgur.com/6T6zAkx.png)

Diagram above shows what happens with GPS: each satellite continuously sends signals giving it's ID, Location and a Timestamp for that information. We can see two receivers held by "Fred" and "Wilma"... They haven't moved, and they're some distance apart (5km say). Each satelite is moving, and each delta changes as that satelite moves. I've only shown delta from "Sat2". There are two ways this could be "spoofed" or mimicked by Flat Earth conspiracy agents, but neither makes sense:

(https://i.imgur.com/4pZSBwP.png)

In the above, the stationary tower "Fixed2" sends an ID, Location, and Timestamp. However, Fred and Wilma are considerable distances apart, so their "Delta" changes quite a lot between each signal. The stationary antenna could "pretend" and give a fake time stamp to Fred the first time (T2a), and then give the real time stamp T2B the second time... but Wilma will receive those same time stamps, and Wilma would think they're much further away with the first signal, and then the correct distance in the second signal? Or the antenna could give the "correct" Time stamp the first time, and Wilma will have the correct delta, and then the antenna could "spoof" a time stamp for the second signal so Wilma still gets the correct delta, but then that would through Fred completely out of whack. It is not possible to spoof for one receiver without confusing the second. It is impossible for both to calculate the "correct" location for both signals.

(https://i.imgur.com/IBgX24j.png)

Option two: with two fixed antennas, the flat earth agents could "pretend" that the GPS has moved, simply by changing the ID part of the signal sent by antennas 1 and 2: in the first signal, Antenna 1 says "I'm Sat2!", and then on the second signal, Antenna 2 says "I'm Sat2!" and us globetards are fooled in to thinking this is a moving GPS. Everything else (the delta, calculated distance etc) holds in exactly the same way as for the first "known" diagram of GPS. However there's a huge problem: that only works to explain the two points shown in my diagram! What about the signal sent half way between those two points? A third antenna? What about half way between that? A fourth antenna? Obviously impossible without "infinity antennas"(!)

This is a little tricky to "conceptualise" with moving GPS vs Fixed Time Stamps vs Deltas etc: I found this hard to turn that in to clear diagrams, and perhaps they are not clear enough I don't know. However what I found completely impossible, is how it can be possible to mimic GPS with fixed antennas. Given they are constantly transmitting DIFFERENT locations and time stamps, it's simply impossible to spoof. You could argue that the GPS receivers themselves are in on the conspiracy, but there's any number of free open source aps for your phone to directly read the GPS data, and a LARGE part of the data is not "the data itself" it's simply a time stamp... you can not "spoof" a time stamp for selective people: time stamps get broadcast to everyone, it's up to the receiver to compare that time stamp to their individual device. It's simply impossible to spoof data for one receiver without throwing out a second receiver.
Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: Round Eyes on June 20, 2018, 11:51:02 AM
Long range, high altitude, potenially solar powered airplanes.  Nasa website even has a page showing one and even says its used to "test" satellite technology.  Trying to formulate a conspiracy theory utilizing ground based system is overly complicated.  Occams razor.

ask yourself, which of these two scenarios is easiest:

1.  having a large number of airplanes that can fly along pre-determined paths and sustained speeds for a long time utilizing solar powered engines. as planes need more fuel or maintenace another plane takes off and resumes its path; or
2.  having a large number of satelittes launched into space as the exact speed and trajectory needed to balance falling back to earth and its velocity matching the rotation (orbit), and also having to do constant micro-adjustments to their atomic clocks to account for time dilation that is related to both gravitational influence and velocities relative to those on earth.  these satelittes also have to stay in orbit with no maintenance ever needed.

pretty obvious which one is simpler.

also, why is it that areas have random times of no satelitte coverage?  i mean, supposedly these things are hundreds/thousands of miles up:   http://www.nstb.tc.faa.gov/24Hr_RAIM.htm



Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: BlueMachine on June 20, 2018, 02:58:05 PM
Long range, high altitude, potenially solar powered airplanes.  Nasa website even has a page showing one and even says its used to "test" satellite technology.  Trying to formulate a conspiracy theory utilizing ground based system is overly complicated.  Occams razor.

ask yourself, which of these two scenarios is easiest:

1.  having a large number of airplanes that can fly along pre-determined paths and sustained speeds for a long time utilizing solar powered engines. as planes need more fuel or maintenace another plane takes off and resumes its path; or
2.  having a large number of satelittes launched into space as the exact speed and trajectory needed to balance falling back to earth and its velocity matching the rotation (orbit), and also having to do constant micro-adjustments to their atomic clocks to account for time dilation that is related to both gravitational influence and velocities relative to those on earth.  these satelittes also have to stay in orbit with no maintenance ever needed.

pretty obvious which one is simpler.

also, why is it that areas have random times of no satellite coverage?  i mean, supposedly these things are hundreds/thousands of miles up:   http://www.nstb.tc.faa.gov/24Hr_RAIM.htm


The satellites are simpler, pretty obviously.

1: Energy - the amount of power we can harness from solar is limited, especially when you look at the technology when we were first launching satellites. They are just starting to develop planes that can fly on solar now, and they aren't at a level to be mass produced. Satellites take no energy to maintain their velocity and all their power can go towards other functions.

2: Pathing - To fly a plane along a predetermined path inside the atmosphere would involve constant monitoring and adjusting due to wind, weather and probably a million other factors. Seriously, how are you supposed to keep an unmanned flight on its course with no GPS? Satellite paths are predictable because there's no random variables in play. Once it's in space, the needed velocity for orbit can be calculated using high school level physics. The atomic clock is not necessary for its pathing, but again, time dilation can be calculated without difficulty.

3: Logistics - just to have a third point. Don't really feel like fleshing this one out.
Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: Round Eyes on June 20, 2018, 03:11:15 PM
Long range, high altitude, potenially solar powered airplanes.  Nasa website even has a page showing one and even says its used to "test" satellite technology.  Trying to formulate a conspiracy theory utilizing ground based system is overly complicated.  Occams razor.

ask yourself, which of these two scenarios is easiest:

1.  having a large number of airplanes that can fly along pre-determined paths and sustained speeds for a long time utilizing solar powered engines. as planes need more fuel or maintenace another plane takes off and resumes its path; or
2.  having a large number of satelittes launched into space as the exact speed and trajectory needed to balance falling back to earth and its velocity matching the rotation (orbit), and also having to do constant micro-adjustments to their atomic clocks to account for time dilation that is related to both gravitational influence and velocities relative to those on earth.  these satelittes also have to stay in orbit with no maintenance ever needed.

pretty obvious which one is simpler.

also, why is it that areas have random times of no satellite coverage?  i mean, supposedly these things are hundreds/thousands of miles up:   http://www.nstb.tc.faa.gov/24Hr_RAIM.htm


The satellites are simpler, pretty obviously.

1: Energy - the amount of power we can harness from solar is limited, especially when you look at the technology when we were first launching satellites. They are just starting to develop planes that can fly on solar now, and they aren't at a level to be mass produced. Satellites take no energy to maintain their velocity and all their power can go towards other functions.

2: Pathing - To fly a plane along a predetermined path inside the atmosphere would involve constant monitoring and adjusting due to wind, weather and probably a million other factors. Seriously, how are you supposed to keep an unmanned flight on its course with no GPS? Satellite paths are predictable because there's no random variables in play. Once it's in space, the needed velocity for orbit can be calculated using high school level physics. The atomic clock is not necessary for its pathing, but again, time dilation can be calculated without difficulty.

3: Logistics - just to have a third point. Don't really feel like fleshing this one out.

its not that difficult, at any given time there are tens of thousands of airplanes in flight, following a pre-determined paths...and most are utilizing auto-pilot during the flights (less takeoff/landing).  not complicated and we have been doing that a long time.   You think its more complicated than managing the thousands of flights travelling thru one of the large airports on a given day?   you are trying to make it sound more complicated than it is to just justify your position.  weather?  i am pretty sure thats negligible with the altitudes they are flying.
Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: BlueMachine on June 20, 2018, 03:26:04 PM

its not that difficult, at any given time there are tens of thousands of airplanes in flight, following a pre-determined paths...and most are utilizing auto-pilot during the flights (less takeoff/landing).  not complicated and we have been doing that a long time.   You think its more complicated than managing the thousands of flights travelling thru one of the large airports on a given day?



Standard autopilot doesn't maintain trajectory, watch out for weather, or monitor systems. If you want an automatic system to maintain your course on a plane, you'd need GPS. So what came first, the GPS or the planes that made GPS?

Quote
you are trying to make it sound more complicated than it is to just justify your position. 

Pot meet kettle

Quote
weather?  i am pretty sure thats negligible with the altitudes they are flying.

I'm pretty sure it's not.

'Many general aviation as well as air carrier and military aircraft routinely fly the upper troposphere and lower stratosphere. Weather phenomena of these higher altitudes include the tropopause, the jet stream, cirrus clouds, clear air turbulence, condensation trails, high altitude “haze” layers, and canopy static.' https://www.aviationweather.ws/075_High_Altitude_Weather.php (https://www.aviationweather.ws/075_High_Altitude_Weather.php)
Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: Tom Bishop on June 20, 2018, 06:02:41 PM
also, why is it that areas have random times of no satelitte coverage?  i mean, supposedly these things are hundreds/thousands of miles up:   http://www.nstb.tc.faa.gov/24Hr_RAIM.htm

Good point.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Receiver_autonomous_integrity_monitoring

Quote
Receiver autonomous integrity monitoring (RAIM) is a technology developed to assess the integrity of global positioning system (GPS) signals in a GPS receiver system. It is of special importance in safety-critical GPS applications, such as in aviation or marine navigation.

We are constantly told by fly-by RE'ers that GPS coverage is constant and everywhere.

There is even a movie about lack of satellite coverage and the problems it causes. In Lone Survivor, a true story depicted in a movie and a book of the same name, a major plot point is that the team's Satellite Phone got no signal on the top of a mountain in Afghanistan.
Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: Curious Squirrel on June 20, 2018, 06:34:14 PM
also, why is it that areas have random times of no satelitte coverage?  i mean, supposedly these things are hundreds/thousands of miles up:   http://www.nstb.tc.faa.gov/24Hr_RAIM.htm

Good point.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Receiver_autonomous_integrity_monitoring

Quote
Receiver autonomous integrity monitoring (RAIM) is a technology developed to assess the integrity of global positioning system (GPS) signals in a GPS receiver system. It is of special importance in safety-critical GPS applications, such as in aviation or marine navigation.

We are constantly by fly-by RE'ers that GPS coverage is constant and everywhere.

There is even a movie about lack of satellite coverage and the problems it causes. In Lone Survivor, a true story depicted in a movie and a book of the same name, a major plot point is that the team's Satellite Phone got zero signal on the top of a mountain in Afghanistan.
Tom you were corrected on this last time you brought up Lone Survivor. The pivotal scene you are referring to did not use 'the top of a mountain' but it was required for him to move to an exposed position. Which, as mentioned the last time, is to be expected with a sat phone, a device that requires line-of-sight to the 'eye in the sky' of the satellite.
Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: Tom Bishop on June 20, 2018, 06:51:02 PM
Tom you were corrected on this last time you brought up Lone Survivor. The pivotal scene you are referring to did not use 'the top of a mountain' but it was required for him to move to an exposed position. Which, as mentioned the last time, is to be expected with a sat phone, a device that requires line-of-sight to the 'eye in the sky' of the satellite.

From what I've read about it, I believe that they tried making contact with command at planned extraction points on mountain peaks before that end scene in the valley you are talking about.

http://sites.psu.edu/baderrclpassion/2014/03/26/lone-survivor/

Quote
Lone Survivor is based of the true story of Operation Red Wings, set during the Afghani war, and dramatizes the Navy SEAL counter-insurgent mission, where a four man surveillance team was tasked with tracking Taliban leader Ahmad Shah. To sum up, the four man team goes to reach their position when they stumble across local goat herders. After releasing the herders and realizing that the mission is compromised, they fall back and go to call for extraction, except communications are down and the mountain they’re on has no signal for the SAT phone.

This one calls it "radio contact," but the story is about a satellite phone with no signal:

https://moviegoersview.com/2014/01/lone-survivor/

Quote
Time on the base is spent fraternizing and talking wedding plans when they get the mission call from Lieutenant Commander Erik Kristensen played by (Eric Bana). The mission is plagued from the beginning with continual difficulty communicating with operations base. From poor to barely audible radio signals to no signal at all,  the men decide to hunker down and proceed later to a different peak location to try making radio contact again.
Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: Bobby Shafto on June 20, 2018, 07:13:27 PM
We are constantly by fly-by RE'ers that GPS coverage is constant and everywhere.
I'm sorry that happens and causes confusion, but I've been told "xxx said a thing" does not contribute to the conversation. There are outages in GPS coverage. RAIM is used to detect faults and navigation error calculations due to a variety of conditions. Whoever said or implied GPS coverage was complete, constant and omnipresent wasn't accurate.

There is even a movie about lack of satellite coverage and the problems it causes. In Lone Survivor, a true story depicted in a movie and a book of the same name, a major plot point is that the team's Satellite Phone got zero signal on the top of a mountain in Afghanistan.

The movie Lone Survivor (or the account of the real world Operation Red Wings) is off topic because Satellite phone (Irridium) is a completely separate system from GPS. RAIM has to do with GPS, not satellite phone.
Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: Round Eyes on June 20, 2018, 08:24:10 PM
We are constantly by fly-by RE'ers that GPS coverage is constant and everywhere.
I'm sorry that happens and causes confusion, but I've been told "xxx said a thing" does not contribute to the conversation. There are outages in GPS coverage. RAIM is used to detect faults and navigation error calculations due to a variety of conditions. Whoever said or implied GPS coverage was complete, constant and omnipresent wasn't accurate.

There is even a movie about lack of satellite coverage and the problems it causes. In Lone Survivor, a true story depicted in a movie and a book of the same name, a major plot point is that the team's Satellite Phone got zero signal on the top of a mountain in Afghanistan.

The movie Lone Survivor (or the account of the real world Operation Red Wings) is off topic because Satellite phone (Irridium) is a completely separate system from GPS. RAIM has to do with GPS, not satellite phone.

Fine, here is the map for iridium satellites and outages then :  http://downdetector.com/status/iridium/map/

Interesting they used a flat earth map with Antarctica shown as an ice wall....  :-B

But feel free to keep clutching for straws
Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: SiDawg on June 21, 2018, 01:54:41 AM
A network of solar planes travelling at 14,000km/h? If you believe they're NOT travelling at 14,000km/h (i.e the speed of GPS satellites), it's exactly same argument as above: impossible to spoof.

Besides, it's NOT simpler to run solar plane fleet than orbiting satellites... Orbits are very predicable: atmosphere is not. Planes are mechanical, satellites are not. Mechanical things fail, especially those constantly adjusting for weather conditions. If you're saying they fly "above weather" the amount of additional power required to stay airborne on very thin air would be significant. If it were easy to run a fleet of solar planes, there would also be fleets of commercial/passenger solar planes. Planes fall out of the sky all the time: do you think solar planes never would? Do we keep that quiet somehow?

Adjusting GPS for time dilation, although extremely awesome and surprising, is also pretty trivial to calculate. Giant chunks of metal orbiting around a globe at 14,000km/h is extremely awesome, but reasonably simple. Don't confuse "awesome" for "complicated" :D
Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: andiwd on June 21, 2018, 10:12:17 AM
Let's look at the money side of things as well. We've been regularly told that the myth of space flight is just a money making scheme for launch agencies such as NASA. The trouble is that although launch agencies do charge money to launch a companies satellite this is simply a one off cost. If every time NASA launched a satellite into a new orbit they had to take money out of their own funds to setup a new chain of super planes with associated maintenance, fuel, wages and other expenditures plus an amount of backup so that we don't catch on when the inevitable happens and a plane is grounded, how exactly do they run a profit?
Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: Round Eyes on June 21, 2018, 11:08:31 AM
A network of solar planes travelling at 14,000km/h? If you believe they're NOT travelling at 14,000km/h (i.e the speed of GPS satellites), it's exactly same argument as above: impossible to spoof.

Besides, it's NOT simpler to run solar plane fleet than orbiting satellites... Orbits are very predicable: atmosphere is not. Planes are mechanical, satellites are not. Mechanical things fail, especially those constantly adjusting for weather conditions. If you're saying they fly "above weather" the amount of additional power required to stay airborne on very thin air would be significant. If it were easy to run a fleet of solar planes, there would also be fleets of commercial/passenger solar planes. Planes fall out of the sky all the time: do you think solar planes never would? Do we keep that quiet somehow?

Adjusting GPS for time dilation, although extremely awesome and surprising, is also pretty trivial to calculate. Giant chunks of metal orbiting around a globe at 14,000km/h is extremely awesome, but reasonably simple. Don't confuse "awesome" for "complicated" :D

Way off, that speed is needed to orbit earth in 12 hours at the supposed altitude of 12,000 miles above earth.  If the planes are traveling approx 15 miles about earth, that works out to around 2,200 mph, or Mach 3....based on round earth math.  Reasonable, try again

Planes fall out of the sky all the time??!!  Did you seriously just say that.  You round earthers will say anything to try and prove themselves right.  Wow
Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: inquisitive on June 21, 2018, 05:12:53 PM
Long range, high altitude, potenially solar powered airplanes.  Nasa website even has a page showing one and even says its used to "test" satellite technology.  Trying to formulate a conspiracy theory utilizing ground based system is overly complicated.  Occams razor.

ask yourself, which of these two scenarios is easiest:

1.  having a large number of airplanes that can fly along pre-determined paths and sustained speeds for a long time utilizing solar powered engines. as planes need more fuel or maintenace another plane takes off and resumes its path; or
2.  having a large number of satelittes launched into space as the exact speed and trajectory needed to balance falling back to earth and its velocity matching the rotation (orbit), and also having to do constant micro-adjustments to their atomic clocks to account for time dilation that is related to both gravitational influence and velocities relative to those on earth.  these satelittes also have to stay in orbit with no maintenance ever needed.

pretty obvious which one is simpler.

also, why is it that areas have random times of no satelitte coverage?  i mean, supposedly these things are hundreds/thousands of miles up:   http://www.nstb.tc.faa.gov/24Hr_RAIM.htm
Satellites work for broadcast and navigation.  A tv dish points at one.
Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: SiDawg on June 22, 2018, 05:54:11 AM
Way off, that speed is needed to orbit earth in 12 hours at the supposed altitude of 12,000 miles above earth.  If the planes are traveling approx 15 miles about earth, that works out to around 2,200 mph, or Mach 3....based on round earth math.  Reasonable, try again

Planes fall out of the sky all the time??!!  Did you seriously just say that.  You round earthers will say anything to try and prove themselves right.  Wow

Sorry yes you're right... i was lazy in my googling. So OK you think we have solar powered planes travelling at Mach 3? That's less impossible than 14,000km/h but still impossible. Think of the solar panel size for a start... and if only 15 miles up, pretty easy to spot the giant solar wings...

As for planes falling out of the sky: OK sure i didn't even bother researching that. But looks like figure is about 90 commercial flights a year? God knows how many total (incl private). Sure there's only 24 GPS "planes" but if they're travelling 24 hours a day... at Mach 3 (!), for the last twenty years... Haven't done the maths but thinking odds of at least ONE falling in a populated spot are pretty high... Could be wrong.

Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: Round Eyes on June 22, 2018, 12:01:53 PM
Way off, that speed is needed to orbit earth in 12 hours at the supposed altitude of 12,000 miles above earth.  If the planes are traveling approx 15 miles about earth, that works out to around 2,200 mph, or Mach 3....based on round earth math.  Reasonable, try again

Planes fall out of the sky all the time??!!  Did you seriously just say that.  You round earthers will say anything to try and prove themselves right.  Wow

Sorry yes you're right... i was lazy in my googling. So OK you think we have solar powered planes travelling at Mach 3? That's less impossible than 14,000km/h but still impossible. Think of the solar panel size for a start... and if only 15 miles up, pretty easy to spot the giant solar wings...

As for planes falling out of the sky: OK sure i didn't even bother researching that. But looks like figure is about 90 commercial flights a year? God knows how many total (incl private). Sure there's only 24 GPS "planes" but if they're travelling 24 hours a day... at Mach 3 (!), for the last twenty years... Haven't done the maths but thinking odds of at least ONE falling in a populated spot are pretty high... Could be wrong.

mach 3 speed is based on using RE geometry and assuming the satellites are going around the circumference of earth, which obviously isnt true.  the paths would be much different and shorter so the speed would be considerably less.  the elevation isnt really known, i just used 15 miles to do the calculations.   most plane crashes occur on takeoff and landing, a very small percent happen during cruising speed.  it does happen obviously.  there have been many news stories about "space junk" crashing to earth

do you also find it odd that all these space agencies are able to crash there satellites into the middle of the ocean at the end of there service life?   the odds of one of only 24 gps planes falling into a populated area????   much lower than  an airplane crashing (thousands in the air at any given time) into a populated area, which hasnt happened very much has it? 
Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: Tumeni on June 22, 2018, 12:26:57 PM
Long range, high altitude, potenially solar powered airplanes.  Nasa website even has a page showing one and even says its used to "test" satellite technology.

The presence of that one doesn't support or even imply the presence of multiple others. 

ask yourself, which of these two scenarios is easiest:

1.  having a large number of airplanes that can fly along pre-determined paths and sustained speeds for a long time utilizing solar powered engines. as planes need more fuel or maintenace another plane takes off and resumes its path; or
2.  having a large number of satelittes launched into space as the exact speed and trajectory needed to balance falling back to earth and its velocity matching the rotation (orbit), and also having to do constant micro-adjustments to their atomic clocks to account for time dilation that is related to both gravitational influence and velocities relative to those on earth.  these satelittes also have to stay in orbit with no maintenance ever needed.

pretty obvious which one is simpler.

Yes, the second one. Satellites have fewer (if any) moving parts, so don't require maintenance. Planes are subject to the vagaries of weather, atmosphere, and have many moving parts, so need much more maintenance. They're more difficult to keep to position and timetable. Again, citing the ISS - nobody EVER sees it fail to turn up on time. Nobody sees the "replacement plane" moving into position, nor the plane being replaced dropping out of position

also, why is it that areas have random times of no satelitte coverage?  i mean, supposedly these things are hundreds/thousands of miles up:

Atmospheric/weather interference?  Electrical storms between satellite and ground?  Solar activity?  Doesn't that webpage tell you? 
Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: Tumeni on June 22, 2018, 12:29:10 PM
Fine, here is the map for iridium satellites and outages then :  http://downdetector.com/status/iridium/map/

Interesting they used a flat earth map with Antarctica shown as an ice wall....  :-B

What else would they use for display on a flat-screen monitor?
Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: Tumeni on June 22, 2018, 12:32:28 PM
do you also find it odd that all these space agencies are able to crash there satellites into the middle of the ocean at the end of there service life?

No. Most/all satellites of any size have a de-orbit provision, wherein mission control can determine a path at end of life to avoid populated areas. Sometimes this fails, and we have (for instance) a Chinese space station ditching in the Indian Ocean, and Skylab leaving debris over huge swathes of Australia. But mostly, the controlled re-entry works.
Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: TomInAustin on June 22, 2018, 09:05:42 PM
Long range, high altitude, potenially solar powered airplanes.  Nasa website even has a page showing one and even says its used to "test" satellite technology.  Trying to formulate a conspiracy theory utilizing ground based system is overly complicated.  Occams razor.

ask yourself, which of these two scenarios is easiest:

1.  having a large number of airplanes that can fly along pre-determined paths and sustained speeds for a long time utilizing solar powered engines. as planes need more fuel or maintenace another plane takes off and resumes its path; or
2.  having a large number of satelittes launched into space as the exact speed and trajectory needed to balance falling back to earth and its velocity matching the rotation (orbit), and also having to do constant micro-adjustments to their atomic clocks to account for time dilation that is related to both gravitational influence and velocities relative to those on earth.  these satelittes also have to stay in orbit with no maintenance ever needed.

pretty obvious which one is simpler.

also, why is it that areas have random times of no satellite coverage?  i mean, supposedly these things are hundreds/thousands of miles up:   http://www.nstb.tc.faa.gov/24Hr_RAIM.htm


The satellites are simpler, pretty obviously.

1: Energy - the amount of power we can harness from solar is limited, especially when you look at the technology when we were first launching satellites. They are just starting to develop planes that can fly on solar now, and they aren't at a level to be mass produced. Satellites take no energy to maintain their velocity and all their power can go towards other functions.

2: Pathing - To fly a plane along a predetermined path inside the atmosphere would involve constant monitoring and adjusting due to wind, weather and probably a million other factors. Seriously, how are you supposed to keep an unmanned flight on its course with no GPS? Satellite paths are predictable because there's no random variables in play. Once it's in space, the needed velocity for orbit can be calculated using high school level physics. The atomic clock is not necessary for its pathing, but again, time dilation can be calculated without difficulty.

3: Logistics - just to have a third point. Don't really feel like fleshing this one out.

its not that difficult, at any given time there are tens of thousands of airplanes in flight, following a pre-determined paths...and most are utilizing auto-pilot during the flights (less takeoff/landing).  not complicated and we have been doing that a long time.   You think its more complicated than managing the thousands of flights travelling thru one of the large airports on a given day?   you are trying to make it sound more complicated than it is to just justify your position.  weather?  i am pretty sure thats negligible with the altitudes they are flying.

Well, these planes would be a problem since we have no map, no idea how far it is from point to point, or how fast they are going.  Right?
Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: TomInAustin on June 22, 2018, 09:09:00 PM
A network of solar planes travelling at 14,000km/h? If you believe they're NOT travelling at 14,000km/h (i.e the speed of GPS satellites), it's exactly same argument as above: impossible to spoof.

Besides, it's NOT simpler to run solar plane fleet than orbiting satellites... Orbits are very predicable: atmosphere is not. Planes are mechanical, satellites are not. Mechanical things fail, especially those constantly adjusting for weather conditions. If you're saying they fly "above weather" the amount of additional power required to stay airborne on very thin air would be significant. If it were easy to run a fleet of solar planes, there would also be fleets of commercial/passenger solar planes. Planes fall out of the sky all the time: do you think solar planes never would? Do we keep that quiet somehow?

Adjusting GPS for time dilation, although extremely awesome and surprising, is also pretty trivial to calculate. Giant chunks of metal orbiting around a globe at 14,000km/h is extremely awesome, but reasonably simple. Don't confuse "awesome" for "complicated" :D

Way off, that speed is needed to orbit earth in 12 hours at the supposed altitude of 12,000 miles above earth.  If the planes are traveling approx 15 miles about earth, that works out to around 2,200 mph, or Mach 3....based on round earth math.  Reasonable, try again




LOL Mach 3 is reasonable for a solar-powered aircraft?  Now that is funny!   Where are the sonic booms we would hear with every pass?
Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: Round Eyes on June 22, 2018, 11:27:40 PM
A network of solar planes travelling at 14,000km/h? If you believe they're NOT travelling at 14,000km/h (i.e the speed of GPS satellites), it's exactly same argument as above: impossible to spoof.

Besides, it's NOT simpler to run solar plane fleet than orbiting satellites... Orbits are very predicable: atmosphere is not. Planes are mechanical, satellites are not. Mechanical things fail, especially those constantly adjusting for weather conditions. If you're saying they fly "above weather" the amount of additional power required to stay airborne on very thin air would be significant. If it were easy to run a fleet of solar planes, there would also be fleets of commercial/passenger solar planes. Planes fall out of the sky all the time: do you think solar planes never would? Do we keep that quiet somehow?

Adjusting GPS for time dilation, although extremely awesome and surprising, is also pretty trivial to calculate. Giant chunks of metal orbiting around a globe at 14,000km/h is extremely awesome, but reasonably simple. Don't confuse "awesome" for "complicated" :D

Way off, that speed is needed to orbit earth in 12 hours at the supposed altitude of 12,000 miles above earth.  If the planes are traveling approx 15 miles about earth, that works out to around 2,200 mph, or Mach 3....based on round earth math.  Reasonable, try again




LOL Mach 3 is reasonable for a solar-powered aircraft?  Now that is funny!   Where are the sonic booms we would hear with every pass?

Might want to do some research on that before making yourself look silly
Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: TomInAustin on June 22, 2018, 11:47:06 PM
A network of solar planes travelling at 14,000km/h? If you believe they're NOT travelling at 14,000km/h (i.e the speed of GPS satellites), it's exactly same argument as above: impossible to spoof.

Besides, it's NOT simpler to run solar plane fleet than orbiting satellites... Orbits are very predicable: atmosphere is not. Planes are mechanical, satellites are not. Mechanical things fail, especially those constantly adjusting for weather conditions. If you're saying they fly "above weather" the amount of additional power required to stay airborne on very thin air would be significant. If it were easy to run a fleet of solar planes, there would also be fleets of commercial/passenger solar planes. Planes fall out of the sky all the time: do you think solar planes never would? Do we keep that quiet somehow?

Adjusting GPS for time dilation, although extremely awesome and surprising, is also pretty trivial to calculate. Giant chunks of metal orbiting around a globe at 14,000km/h is extremely awesome, but reasonably simple. Don't confuse "awesome" for "complicated" :D

Way off, that speed is needed to orbit earth in 12 hours at the supposed altitude of 12,000 miles above earth.  If the planes are traveling approx 15 miles about earth, that works out to around 2,200 mph, or Mach 3....based on round earth math.  Reasonable, try again




LOL Mach 3 is reasonable for a solar-powered aircraft?  Now that is funny!   Where are the sonic booms we would hear with every pass?

Might want to do some research on that before making yourself look silly

i know enough about aviation ot not have to look anything up.  I stick by what I said.   The one who looks silly is the one that thinks solar-powered airplanes are the GPS platform.
Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: Round Eyes on June 22, 2018, 11:55:06 PM
A network of solar planes travelling at 14,000km/h? If you believe they're NOT travelling at 14,000km/h (i.e the speed of GPS satellites), it's exactly same argument as above: impossible to spoof.

Besides, it's NOT simpler to run solar plane fleet than orbiting satellites... Orbits are very predicable: atmosphere is not. Planes are mechanical, satellites are not. Mechanical things fail, especially those constantly adjusting for weather conditions. If you're saying they fly "above weather" the amount of additional power required to stay airborne on very thin air would be significant. If it were easy to run a fleet of solar planes, there would also be fleets of commercial/passenger solar planes. Planes fall out of the sky all the time: do you think solar planes never would? Do we keep that quiet somehow?

Adjusting GPS for time dilation, although extremely awesome and surprising, is also pretty trivial to calculate. Giant chunks of metal orbiting around a globe at 14,000km/h is extremely awesome, but reasonably simple. Don't confuse "awesome" for "complicated" :D

Way off, that speed is needed to orbit earth in 12 hours at the supposed altitude of 12,000 miles above earth.  If the planes are traveling approx 15 miles about earth, that works out to around 2,200 mph, or Mach 3....based on round earth math.  Reasonable, try again




LOL Mach 3 is reasonable for a solar-powered aircraft?  Now that is funny!   Where are the sonic booms we would hear with every pass?

Might want to do some research on that before making yourself look silly

i know enough about aviation ot not have to look anything up.  I stick by what I said.   The one who looks silly is the one that thinks solar-powered airplanes are the GPS platform.

So you know that sonic boom drastically decreases as altitude increases and the impact once you go past 1.3 Mach is neglible?  That kind of aviation knowledge?  Remind me to never get on an airplane with you, co-pilot

You round earthers will say anything without any knowledge or research
Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: TomInAustin on June 23, 2018, 04:59:33 PM
A network of solar planes travelling at 14,000km/h? If you believe they're NOT travelling at 14,000km/h (i.e the speed of GPS satellites), it's exactly same argument as above: impossible to spoof.

Besides, it's NOT simpler to run solar plane fleet than orbiting satellites... Orbits are very predicable: atmosphere is not. Planes are mechanical, satellites are not. Mechanical things fail, especially those constantly adjusting for weather conditions. If you're saying they fly "above weather" the amount of additional power required to stay airborne on very thin air would be significant. If it were easy to run a fleet of solar planes, there would also be fleets of commercial/passenger solar planes. Planes fall out of the sky all the time: do you think solar planes never would? Do we keep that quiet somehow?

Adjusting GPS for time dilation, although extremely awesome and surprising, is also pretty trivial to calculate. Giant chunks of metal orbiting around a globe at 14,000km/h is extremely awesome, but reasonably simple. Don't confuse "awesome" for "complicated" :D

Way off, that speed is needed to orbit earth in 12 hours at the supposed altitude of 12,000 miles above earth.  If the planes are traveling approx 15 miles about earth, that works out to around 2,200 mph, or Mach 3....based on round earth math.  Reasonable, try again




LOL Mach 3 is reasonable for a solar-powered aircraft?  Now that is funny!   Where are the sonic booms we would hear with every pass?

Might want to do some research on that before making yourself look silly

i know enough about aviation ot not have to look anything up.  I stick by what I said.   The one who looks silly is the one that thinks solar-powered airplanes are the GPS platform.

So you know that sonic boom drastically decreases as altitude increases and the impact once you go past 1.3 Mach is neglible?  That kind of aviation knowledge?  Remind me to never get on an airplane with you, co-pilot

You round earthers will say anything without any knowledge or research

I was referring to the silly idea that a solar-powered aircraft that could achieve supersonic flight.  Remind me to never read your silly ideas again.   As for sonic booms, they are still very noticeable, it's why Concord was not allowed to fly supersonic over land.  Get your facts straight or stay out of debates.    GPS aircraft indeed... LOL
Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: Round Eyes on June 23, 2018, 10:26:29 PM
A network of solar planes travelling at 14,000km/h? If you believe they're NOT travelling at 14,000km/h (i.e the speed of GPS satellites), it's exactly same argument as above: impossible to spoof.

Besides, it's NOT simpler to run solar plane fleet than orbiting satellites... Orbits are very predicable: atmosphere is not. Planes are mechanical, satellites are not. Mechanical things fail, especially those constantly adjusting for weather conditions. If you're saying they fly "above weather" the amount of additional power required to stay airborne on very thin air would be significant. If it were easy to run a fleet of solar planes, there would also be fleets of commercial/passenger solar planes. Planes fall out of the sky all the time: do you think solar planes never would? Do we keep that quiet somehow?

Adjusting GPS for time dilation, although extremely awesome and surprising, is also pretty trivial to calculate. Giant chunks of metal orbiting around a globe at 14,000km/h is extremely awesome, but reasonably simple. Don't confuse "awesome" for "complicated" :D

Way off, that speed is needed to orbit earth in 12 hours at the supposed altitude of 12,000 miles above earth.  If the planes are traveling approx 15 miles about earth, that works out to around 2,200 mph, or Mach 3....based on round earth math.  Reasonable, try again




LOL Mach 3 is reasonable for a solar-powered aircraft?  Now that is funny!   Where are the sonic booms we would hear with every pass?

Might want to do some research on that before making yourself look silly

i know enough about aviation ot not have to look anything up.  I stick by what I said.   The one who looks silly is the one that thinks solar-powered airplanes are the GPS platform.

So you know that sonic boom drastically decreases as altitude increases and the impact once you go past 1.3 Mach is neglible?  That kind of aviation knowledge?  Remind me to never get on an airplane with you, co-pilot

You round earthers will say anything without any knowledge or research

I was referring to the silly idea that a solar-powered aircraft that could achieve supersonic flight.  Remind me to never read your silly ideas again.   As for sonic booms, they are still very noticeable, it's why Concord was not allowed to fly supersonic over land.  Get your facts straight or stay out of debates.    GPS aircraft indeed... LOL

Right, of course.  You get schooled on facts so you decide to change what we were talking about.  OK, great debate tactic.  Everything I have said was based on facts and have provided backup as requested, you are the one guessing at things which I then correct you on.  Research what you say before posting to avoid these embarrassing exchanges.
Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: inquisitive on June 24, 2018, 07:45:04 AM
A network of solar planes travelling at 14,000km/h? If you believe they're NOT travelling at 14,000km/h (i.e the speed of GPS satellites), it's exactly same argument as above: impossible to spoof.

Besides, it's NOT simpler to run solar plane fleet than orbiting satellites... Orbits are very predicable: atmosphere is not. Planes are mechanical, satellites are not. Mechanical things fail, especially those constantly adjusting for weather conditions. If you're saying they fly "above weather" the amount of additional power required to stay airborne on very thin air would be significant. If it were easy to run a fleet of solar planes, there would also be fleets of commercial/passenger solar planes. Planes fall out of the sky all the time: do you think solar planes never would? Do we keep that quiet somehow?

Adjusting GPS for time dilation, although extremely awesome and surprising, is also pretty trivial to calculate. Giant chunks of metal orbiting around a globe at 14,000km/h is extremely awesome, but reasonably simple. Don't confuse "awesome" for "complicated" :D

Way off, that speed is needed to orbit earth in 12 hours at the supposed altitude of 12,000 miles above earth.  If the planes are traveling approx 15 miles about earth, that works out to around 2,200 mph, or Mach 3....based on round earth math.  Reasonable, try again




LOL Mach 3 is reasonable for a solar-powered aircraft?  Now that is funny!   Where are the sonic booms we would hear with every pass?

Might want to do some research on that before making yourself look silly

i know enough about aviation ot not have to look anything up.  I stick by what I said.   The one who looks silly is the one that thinks solar-powered airplanes are the GPS platform.

So you know that sonic boom drastically decreases as altitude increases and the impact once you go past 1.3 Mach is neglible?  That kind of aviation knowledge?  Remind me to never get on an airplane with you, co-pilot

You round earthers will say anything without any knowledge or research

I was referring to the silly idea that a solar-powered aircraft that could achieve supersonic flight.  Remind me to never read your silly ideas again.   As for sonic booms, they are still very noticeable, it's why Concord was not allowed to fly supersonic over land.  Get your facts straight or stay out of debates.    GPS aircraft indeed... LOL

Right, of course.  You get schooled on facts so you decide to change what we were talking about.  OK, great debate tactic.  Everything I have said was based on facts and have provided backup as requested, you are the one guessing at things which I then correct you on.  Research what you say before posting to avoid these embarrassing exchanges.
Do some research and the facts will show GPS uses satellites.
Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: SiDawg on June 24, 2018, 08:22:50 AM
Can we stop quoting everyone's entire post? :)

But thinking further on this "they're not satellites, they're planes" idea... The same problem occurs as in original post: you can not spoof a time stamp and have it work for every observer.

If you're saying planes fly around somewhere close to 15 miles high... GPS is 12000 miles high. So when a receiver gets a signal from ANY GPS, it's going to be at least 12000 miles worth of distance right? (i.e. if it's directly over head, it's 12,000 miles away). The original post was all about the horizontal positioning, but the vertical position is just as important. If you think planes are 15 miles high, 5 miles high, 100 miles high... they will have to "spoof" their time stamp to make an observer think they're 12,000 miles above the exact location that the "plane" is transmitting. If they spoof their time stamp as being earlier than it really is, then an observer in a second location is going to have the completely wrong distance. You can not spoof a time stamp for an individual location without affecting other observers: you can not provide a spoofed signal for every seperate observer, unless you're proposing there's some sort of "tailored highly directional radio signal" being generated for all individual users?  :-\

As for your comment that you were using RE understand to calculate the speed of the planes... just get you and a friend or two to take logs of GPS signals over a 5 minute period, then see if you can come up with an alternate explanation for the information it tells you. The signals will be able to tell you the effective ground speed of GPS. Start with an assumption the world is flat by all means: good luck with that!

Effectively what i'm proposing, is to use GPS in the opposite manner: you can use the same signals to tell you the location, height, and speed of GPS satellites if you have three or more ground based observers/loggers. When your calculations show they're 12,000 miles high and travelling at 8,700mph, try to come up with a possible method that ground or plane based antennas can fake that information.
Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: MeMyselfAndI on June 29, 2018, 11:51:22 AM
Fine, here is the map for iridium satellites and outages then :  http://downdetector.com/status/iridium/map/

Interesting they used a flat earth map with Antarctica shown as an ice wall....  :-B

But feel free to keep clutching for straws

I don’t know what map you’re looking at, but that link goes to the typical representation of Earth when a globe is inconvenient for 2D screens.
Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: Round Eyes on June 29, 2018, 12:57:24 PM
Fine, here is the map for iridium satellites and outages then :  http://downdetector.com/status/iridium/map/

Interesting they used a flat earth map with Antarctica shown as an ice wall....  :-B

But feel free to keep clutching for straws

I don’t know what map you’re looking at, but that link goes to the typical representation of Earth when a globe is inconvenient for 2D screens.

by typical representation of earth when a glob is inconvenient....yeah a flat earth map.  it shows antartica huge and going around the entire south part of the map.   interesting, google earth works fine on my 2D screen
Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: andiwd on June 29, 2018, 01:29:03 PM
Fine, here is the map for iridium satellites and outages then :  http://downdetector.com/status/iridium/map/

Interesting they used a flat earth map with Antarctica shown as an ice wall....  :-B

But feel free to keep clutching for straws

I don’t know what map you’re looking at, but that link goes to the typical representation of Earth when a globe is inconvenient for 2D screens.

by typical representation of earth when a glob is inconvenient....yeah a flat earth map.  it shows antartica huge and going around the entire south part of the map.   interesting, google earth works fine on my 2D screen

Not sure why your making a mountain out of this but I'll bite. Yes this is a standard type of map when shown on a 2d screen. In fact all the info you need is available right there. In the bottom right of the map is the info of who provides the map, which in this case OpenStreetMap.org (https://www.openstreetmap.org/about/). In their wiki (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/EPSG:3857) they go into detail about the type of projection used on the map which in this case is EPSG:3857 (https://epsg.io/3857) or "web-Mercator (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Mercator). They are completely upfront and detail the errors that can originate by using this map as well as the latitudes it's available for.

Google itself uses two systems, a 2d or a 3d map. The 2d map is the one shown above.
Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: SiDawg on July 02, 2018, 12:31:50 AM
Just because there are occasional GPS outages, what does that prove? Someone said something like "if they're 12,000 miles above earth, how come there are outages?"... I mean. what?? Hunks of metal travelling 12,000 miles above earth at thousands of miles an hour... i'm surprised there are only OCCASIONAL outages. Probably your strongest argument against GPS is that it's so remarkably reliable, not that it's slightly unreliable??

But going back to the original post... to my mind there is no way you can spoof GPS information unless there is "something else" travelling at 8000 miles an hour 12,000 miles above a flat earth. And even if that's so, you can't spoof the "shape" of the earth for the same reason: if magic spoofing planes are giving accurate location information, then we can use that information to accurately measure points between the earth. Once you start mapping that out, you realise the world is a globe. It's the same argument: you can't spoof GPS information to pretend that some bits of land are longer or shorter than other parts, without destroying the accuracy for "other" observers using the same satellites...


Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: rabinoz on July 02, 2018, 08:54:59 AM
by typical representation of earth when a glob is inconvenient....yeah a flat earth map.
No, it is not "a flat earth map" but a projection on a 2-D surface (your flat screen) of a 3-D object (the Globe).
So it's "a flat map" representing the Globe and map-makers for over 1000 years have recognised that and the distortion it causes..

Quote from: Round Eyes
it shows antartica huge and going around the entire south part of the map.
And it shows the arctic huge and going around the entire north part of the map, that's what the Mercator projection does.

Quote from: Round Eyes
interesting, google earth works fine on my 2D screen
and it's interesting that Google Earth does not "show antartica huge and going around the entire south part of the map", why?

It's a different projection. This time it's a sterographic projection that shows how the Globe would look from the stated "eye-height".
Look a how Antarctica look from a 25,000 km eye height:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/gxwbwkdm9dd169m/20160714%20-%20Google%20Earth%20-%20Antarctica%2025000%20km.png?dl=1)
And Greenland from a 25,000 km eye height:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/hd0in3q8jszn870/20160714%20-%20Google%20Earth%20-%20Greenland%2025000%20km.png?dl=1)
And do you notice something?
Google Earth can never show more than half the earth, which explains why Mercator or a similar projection is used to display the whole earth when needed.
This is at the expense of severe distortion of sizes, directions and/or shapes.
Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: SiDawg on July 03, 2018, 03:01:08 AM
Kind of astounding to entertain the notion the world is flat isn't it. I mean what, the globe model just "happens" to consistently fit with an endless amount of observations? If the world was actually flat, just think of the endless procession of scientists, pilots, ships captains raising hell to everyone who would listen "hey! these globe coordinates make no sense?? i'm in a completely different location than where i think i am!" or "none of my scientific conclusions work with a globe, they only work if the world is flat!". It would be constantly in the news. Private companies would've spent millions proving the world was flat. Impossible to hide.

You kinda have to stop and think about the ridiculousness of this flat earth theory now and again. You could probably estimate it with maths. Take the probability of a global conspiracy, multiplied by the probability that no significant number of scientific experiments ever made someone think "hmmm, maybe this thing is flat??", multiplied by the probability the sun magically rotates around the flat earth when no other observable object does, multiplied by the odds no one in the global conspiracy ever sold their story to the media... etc...

Let's see.... .01 * .01 * .01 * .01 (and that's being extremely generous)... Odds about 1 in 100 Million? Still sounds high. I mean come on... there are literally photos taken of half the globe every 10 minutes lol (Disclaimer: some statistics may have been completely pulled out of my, er, globe)

Title: Re: Yet another GPS Post: stationary radio towers can not mimic GPS signals
Post by: nickrulercreator on July 03, 2018, 04:40:10 PM
also, why is it that areas have random times of no satelitte coverage?  i mean, supposedly these things are hundreds/thousands of miles up:   http://www.nstb.tc.faa.gov/24Hr_RAIM.htm

Look at the map. The outage area seems to follow a pattern over the equator. The longest period of outage repeats 4 times, one over the Pacific to the West of South America, one in the Atlantic between S. America and Africa, one in the Indian Ocean just East of Africa, and one in the Pacific just East of Indonesia and North of Papua New Guinea. It is highly likely that this is due to the orbits of the satellites not crossing over those parts, or less satellites crossing over those parts than normal. It also seems planned that the outages occur where they do, because it's over water. Why would planes just avoid those four, regular, repeating areas? Why not cover those areas with the planes?

In the map you can also see the center two dropout areas (one between S. America and Africa, one East of Africa) have two perturbations. The left one has two going South. The right one has two going North. This seems more evident that it is simply something to do with the orbits of the satellites. Why would planes be making these patterns?

There are still more patterns on the map. Up at the top of the map a pattern repeats twice. There are five blobs in each pattern. The first section has blobs over the Southern area of Alaska, the Easternmost part of Alaska, a very large blob over very-North Canada, a blob over western Greenland, and a straighter blob between Greenland and Iceland. This exact pattern, with the shapes nearly perfect, repeats over Russia (East-West it goes Baltic Sea, Finland, biggest blob over central-north Russia (south of the Kara sea), one just south of the Laptev Sea, and the straight blob just south of the East Siberian Sea).

In the South are patterns as well. For this one I'll use the longitude and lattitude markers as a guide to wear to look. At -80S, -150W is a blob that repeats again at -80S, 25E. A blob at -70S,-100W repeats around -70S,75E. A blob that stretches from -80S to -60S and -25W to 0 (it's two that connect at a small area) repeats again at -80S to -60S and 150E-200E. There's one blob around -40S, -125W repeats at -40S, 50E.

Nearly every outage blob repeats somewhere on the map on the exact other side (180o) of the Earth.

No way is this a fleet of planes.