The Flat Earth Society
Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Theory => Topic started by: iamcpc on March 14, 2018, 12:50:35 AM
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I can fly from Bejing China to Los Angeles USA in 13 hours (the yellow line on the image which is about 3 CM)
I can also fly from Santiago, Chile to Sydney Australia in about 14.5 hours (the black line on the image which is about 9 CM).
Both planes are a Boeing 747 which has a a top speed around 600 miles per hour. Based on this how can the attached map possibly be correct?
https://imgur.com/a/WASO5 (https://imgur.com/a/WASO5)
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I can fly from Bejing China to Los Angeles USA in 13 hours (the yellow line on the image which is about 3 CM)
I can also fly from Johannesburg Afria to Sydney Australia in just under 13 hours (the black line on the image which is about 9 CM).
Both planes are a Boeing 747 which has a a top speed around 600 miles per hour. Based on this how can the attached map possibly be correct?
https://imgur.com/a/WASO5 (https://imgur.com/a/WASO5)
This sort of question always gets ignored. As someone who is fascinated by the FE mindset, can anyone tell me why? And why doesn't it matter to FE'rs that they apparently cannot answer it?
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I can fly from Bejing China to Los Angeles USA in 13 hours (the yellow line on the image which is about 3 CM)
I can also fly from Johannesburg Afria to Sydney Australia in just under 13 hours (the black line on the image which is about 9 CM).
Both planes are a Boeing 747 which has a a top speed around 600 miles per hour. Based on this how can the attached map possibly be correct?
https://imgur.com/a/WASO5 (https://imgur.com/a/WASO5)
This sort of question always gets ignored. As someone who is fascinated by the FE mindset, can anyone tell me why? And why doesn't it matter to FE'rs that they apparently cannot answer it?
If you care to go looking, there's a semi-recent thread by use 3DGeek around that ended up getting some attention. I can't say why they don't engage them normally, but Tom's argument essentially boiled down to: "We don't know actual overland distances, and as such have no idea the speed planes fly. As such, any argument made using flight times can't show that planes fly at the same speed all over, much less that the speeds are correct." Paraphrasing a little bit, but that was the general idea.
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I can fly from Bejing China to Los Angeles USA in 13 hours (the yellow line on the image which is about 3 CM)
I can also fly from Johannesburg Afria to Sydney Australia in just under 13 hours (the black line on the image which is about 9 CM).
Both planes are a Boeing 747 which has a a top speed around 600 miles per hour. Based on this how can the attached map possibly be correct?
https://imgur.com/a/WASO5 (https://imgur.com/a/WASO5)
This sort of question always gets ignored. As someone who is fascinated by the FE mindset, can anyone tell me why? And why doesn't it matter to FE'rs that they apparently cannot answer it?
If you care to go looking, there's a semi-recent thread by use 3DGeek around that ended up getting some attention. I can't say why they don't engage them normally, but Tom's argument essentially boiled down to: "We don't know actual overland distances, and as such have no idea the speed planes fly. As such, any argument made using flight times can't show that planes fly at the same speed all over, much less that the speeds are correct." Paraphrasing a little bit, but that was the general idea.
Ah, I see. I wonder how far we can measure before we aren't sure? Are football fields always 100 yards? Are mile markers on highways inaccurate? And if so, by how much?
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If you care to go looking, there's a semi-recent thread by use 3DGeek around that ended up getting some attention. I can't say why they don't engage them normally, but Tom's argument essentially boiled down to: "We don't know actual overland distances, and as such have no idea the speed planes fly. As such, any argument made using flight times can't show that planes fly at the same speed all over, much less that the speeds are correct." Paraphrasing a little bit, but that was the general idea.
I think there was then some silliness after the infamous "the distance from Paris to New York is unknown" comment when it was pointed out that transatlantic cables are laid so clearly they need to know how much cable they need. It then descended into crazy claims denying that. The bending over backwards he does to avoid budging a single inch on any topic is ridiculous.
I do wonder if he's just a troll.
Flight times and the 24 hour Antarctic sun both clearly show that the model as shown in the Wiki doesn't work.
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I can fly from Bejing China to Los Angeles USA in 13 hours (the yellow line on the image which is about 3 CM)
I can also fly from Johannesburg Afria to Sydney Australia in just under 13 hours (the black line on the image which is about 9 CM).
Both planes are a Boeing 747 which has a a top speed around 600 miles per hour. Based on this how can the attached map possibly be correct?
https://imgur.com/a/WASO5 (https://imgur.com/a/WASO5)
This sort of question always gets ignored. As someone who is fascinated by the FE mindset, can anyone tell me why? And why doesn't it matter to FE'rs that they apparently cannot answer it?
If you care to go looking, there's a semi-recent thread by use 3DGeek around that ended up getting some attention. I can't say why they don't engage them normally, but Tom's argument essentially boiled down to: "We don't know actual overland distances, and as such have no idea the speed planes fly. As such, any argument made using flight times can't show that planes fly at the same speed all over, much less that the speeds are correct." Paraphrasing a little bit, but that was the general idea.
Ah, I see. I wonder how far we can measure before we aren't sure? Are football fields always 100 yards? Are mile markers on highways inaccurate? And if so, by how much?
Not sure on any of that. I asked a number of times what the difference would be between a mile on a RE and a mile on a FE, but never received a response. If you care to look through that thread, it's actually the second one in my signature. Be forewarned, I bring it up as a resource because it IS a resource. The thread spanned out to 20 pages in length, with plenty of responses about things from FE people (mostly Tom as I recall). There's a lot of info in there. If you missed the time 3D was active on the forums he did a number of good threads. There's a mistake or two in some, but overall very well done stuff.
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This sort of question always gets ignored. As someone who is fascinated by the FE mindset, can anyone tell me why? And why doesn't it matter to FE'rs that they apparently cannot answer it?
it's so bizarre to me
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This sort of question always gets ignored. As someone who is fascinated by the FE mindset, can anyone tell me why? And why doesn't it matter to FE'rs that they apparently cannot answer it?
it's so bizarre to me
Maybe because we've talked about it a million times over the last 10 years between both forums and now we mainly just comment on topics we are interested in?
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I can fly from Bejing China to Los Angeles USA in 13 hours (the yellow line on the image which is about 3 CM)
I can also fly from Johannesburg Afria to Sydney Australia in just under 13 hours (the black line on the image which is about 9 CM).
Both planes are a Boeing 747 which has a a top speed around 600 miles per hour. Based on this how can the attached map possibly be correct?
https://imgur.com/a/WASO5 (https://imgur.com/a/WASO5)
This sort of question always gets ignored. As someone who is fascinated by the FE mindset, can anyone tell me why? And why doesn't it matter to FE'rs that they apparently cannot answer it?
If you care to go looking, there's a semi-recent thread by use 3DGeek around that ended up getting some attention. I can't say why they don't engage them normally, but Tom's argument essentially boiled down to: "We don't know actual overland distances, and as such have no idea the speed planes fly. As such, any argument made using flight times can't show that planes fly at the same speed all over, much less that the speeds are correct." Paraphrasing a little bit, but that was the general idea.
Ah, I see. I wonder how far we can measure before we aren't sure? Are football fields always 100 yards? Are mile markers on highways inaccurate? And if so, by how much?
Not sure on any of that. I asked a number of times what the difference would be between a mile on a RE and a mile on a FE, but never received a response. If you care to look through that thread, it's actually the second one in my signature. Be forewarned, I bring it up as a resource because it IS a resource. The thread spanned out to 20 pages in length, with plenty of responses about things from FE people (mostly Tom as I recall). There's a lot of info in there. If you missed the time 3D was active on the forums he did a number of good threads. There's a mistake or two in some, but overall very well done stuff.
I recall answering your question when you asked it. A mile is 5280 feet on FE and RE. The premise was that long distance systems based on a spherical coordinate systems are inaccurate in measuring a mile. Those systems are inaccurate.
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If you care to go looking, there's a semi-recent thread by use 3DGeek around that ended up getting some attention. I can't say why they don't engage them normally, but Tom's argument essentially boiled down to: "We don't know actual overland distances, and as such have no idea the speed planes fly. As such, any argument made using flight times can't show that planes fly at the same speed all over, much less that the speeds are correct." Paraphrasing a little bit, but that was the general idea.
I think there was then some silliness after the infamous "the distance from Paris to New York is unknown" comment when it was pointed out that transatlantic cables are laid so clearly they need to know how much cable they need. It then descended into crazy claims denying that. The bending over backwards he does to avoid budging a single inch on any topic is ridiculous.
I do wonder if he's just a troll.
Flight times and the 24 hour Antarctic sun both clearly show that the model as shown in the Wiki doesn't work.
I recently posted some quotes showing that there was 15% surplus cable laid on the transatlantic route. See my post history.
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If you care to go looking, there's a semi-recent thread by use 3DGeek around that ended up getting some attention. I can't say why they don't engage them normally, but Tom's argument essentially boiled down to: "We don't know actual overland distances, and as such have no idea the speed planes fly. As such, any argument made using flight times can't show that planes fly at the same speed all over, much less that the speeds are correct." Paraphrasing a little bit, but that was the general idea.
I think there was then some silliness after the infamous "the distance from Paris to New York is unknown" comment when it was pointed out that transatlantic cables are laid so clearly they need to know how much cable they need. It then descended into crazy claims denying that. The bending over backwards he does to avoid budging a single inch on any topic is ridiculous.
I do wonder if he's just a troll.
Flight times and the 24 hour Antarctic sun both clearly show that the model as shown in the Wiki doesn't work.
I recently posted some quotes showing that there was 15% surplus cable laid on the transatlantic route. See my post history.
That was not recently, we now have the WGS-84 model.
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If you care to go looking, there's a semi-recent thread by use 3DGeek around that ended up getting some attention. I can't say why they don't engage them normally, but Tom's argument essentially boiled down to: "We don't know actual overland distances, and as such have no idea the speed planes fly. As such, any argument made using flight times can't show that planes fly at the same speed all over, much less that the speeds are correct." Paraphrasing a little bit, but that was the general idea.
I think there was then some silliness after the infamous "the distance from Paris to New York is unknown" comment when it was pointed out that transatlantic cables are laid so clearly they need to know how much cable they need. It then descended into crazy claims denying that. The bending over backwards he does to avoid budging a single inch on any topic is ridiculous.
I do wonder if he's just a troll.
Flight times and the 24 hour Antarctic sun both clearly show that the model as shown in the Wiki doesn't work.
I recently posted some quotes showing that there was 15% surplus cable laid on the transatlantic route. See my post history.
Yes, and it was clear that you misinterpreted the excerpts.
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The map can be denied (without an alternative offered) the distances can be refuted or the pilots/airlines can be brought into the conspiracy, whichever suits the particular phase of the debate.
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Maybe because we've talked about it a million times over the last 10 years between both forums and now we mainly just comment on topics we are interested in?
Where?
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Maybe because we've talked about it a million times over the last 10 years between both forums and now we mainly just comment on topics we are interested in?
I've really been trying to research this and I've been unable to find anything. Can someone please help me?
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I saw a youtube video by a guy called TigerDan trying to create a map based on flight times. Fella ended up with 2 Australias. I just came about a video from same guy debunking Flat Earth as he saw that the map couldn't work primarily because of this problem.
Most flat earth theorists try to work around this problem by either saying these flights do not exist, or that the flights take a longer time/different route than they claim - basically an extension of the conspiracy.
I think there are just too many ways to excuse away these simple facts that it really is just simpler to say the southern hemisphere has more or less the same surface area as the northern hemisphere - only possible on a sphere.
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You just end up with silly claims like airlines don't know how fast their planes are going so don't accurately know how far they fly between cities.
It's the only way you can cling to flat earth, if you concede that airlines are actually able to work out how fast they fly then you're left with sets of distances which cannot work on a flat plane.
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You just end up with silly claims like airlines don't know how fast their planes are going so don't accurately know how far they fly between cities.
It's the only way you can cling to flat earth, if you concede that airlines are actually able to work out how fast they fly then you're left with sets of distances which cannot work on a flat plane.
Tom bishop said
Maybe because we've talked about it a million times over the last 10 years between both forums and now we mainly just comment on topics we are interested in?
Can someone please help me find out where the millions of explanations between both forums? I tried on the other flat earth forum too and the only flat earth person stopped responding when I was asking if the layout of the flat earth map was incorrect.
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Tom bishop said
Maybe because we've talked about it a million times over the last 10 years between both forums and now we mainly just comment on topics we are interested in?
Can someone please help me find out where the millions of explanations between both forums? I tried on the other flat earth forum too and the only flat earth person stopped responding when I was asking if the layout of the flat earth map was incorrect.
There's this thread.
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.0
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Tom bishop said
Maybe because we've talked about it a million times over the last 10 years between both forums and now we mainly just comment on topics we are interested in?
Can someone please help me find out where the millions of explanations between both forums? I tried on the other flat earth forum too and the only flat earth person stopped responding when I was asking if the layout of the flat earth map was incorrect.
There's this thread.
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.0
I read this. The first reply was because 3 angles of a triangle add up to 180 the earth is flat. That does nothing to answer my questions about flight times and how the flat earth map on my post can possibly be correct.
There was also
The distance from New York to Paris is unknown.
Again my post has nothing to do with the distance between New York and Paris.
There were concerns about GPS accuracy. Also claims that GPS is round earth propaganda etc. My questions has nothing to do with GPS.
There were lots of questions about distances and how to know how far you have traveled. Claims that distances were based on a round earth and not a flat earth.
My scale distances (3 CM for one line and 9 CM for the second) were based entirely on a map of the flat earth. So any round earth distances found from a round earth source do not apply.
There were claims that speeds and distances are based on a round earth model.
The speed in question can be thrown out. We can just say that both planes are traveling the same speed.
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This sort of question always gets ignored. As someone who is fascinated by the FE mindset, can anyone tell me why? And why doesn't it matter to FE'rs that they apparently cannot answer it?
it's so bizarre to me
Maybe because we've talked about it a million times over the last 10 years between both forums and now we mainly just comment on topics we are interested in?
Now Tom, you will have to prove that claim.
If it was a million times over ten years, then it must be 100,000 times a year. I cannot see that your post count goes up to a million, so therefore your claim must be wrong, and cannot be believed.
I too have noticed that there is a certain amount of switching off from the threads that have pretty much been denied out as far as they can. After that there seems to be silence.
There was no answer to my examples of how distances over sea can be measured, using equipment that is calibrated without relying upon a round earth, that gives results accurate to about 1.5%. This would corroborate the airline data.
I guess no one challenged it, as they couldn’t think of a reasonable way to explain it, so as far as i am concerned flat earth is busted. The airline distances are accurate which mathematically was proved to show that the flat Earth could not possibly exist.
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Now Tom, you will have to prove that claim.
If it was a million times over ten years, then it must be 100,000 times a year. I cannot see that your post count goes up to a million, so therefore your claim must be wrong, and cannot be believed.
I too have noticed that there is a certain amount of switching off from the threads that have pretty much been denied out as far as they can. After that there seems to be silence.
There was no answer to my examples of how distances over sea can be measured, using equipment that is calibrated without relying upon a round earth, that gives results accurate to about 1.5%. This would corroborate the airline data.
I guess no one challenged it, as they couldn’t think of a reasonable way to explain it, so as far as i am concerned flat earth is busted. The airline distances are accurate which mathematically was proved to show that the flat Earth could not possibly exist.
You can't compare a round earth million to a flat earth one. They are totally different.
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You can't compare a round earth million to a flat earth one. They are totally different.
Refrain from low-content posting in the upper fora. Warned.
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I recall answering your question when you asked it. A mile is 5280 feet on FE and RE. The premise was that long distance systems based on a spherical coordinate systems are inaccurate in measuring a mile. Those systems are inaccurate.
At what distance does a FE mile differ from a RE mile? Has anyone done any research on this?
If a police officer uses radar showing me going 100 miles per hour is that flat earth accurate miles per hour or round earth inaccurate miles per hour?
If the coordinate systems are inaccurate are they inaccurate measuring distance or are they inaccurate measuring time or are they inaccurate measuring both?
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I recall answering your question when you asked it. A mile is 5280 feet on FE and RE. The premise was that long distance systems based on a spherical coordinate systems are inaccurate in measuring a mile. Those systems are inaccurate.
Tom, would you accept evidence based on flight times? Time can be measured using an ordinary watch, and the measurement is independent of distance or the coordinate system.
And ditto to the question above. If the coordinate systems are inaccurate are they inaccurate measuring distance or are they inaccurate measuring time or are they inaccurate measuring both?
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Tom, would you accept evidence based on flight times? Time can be measured using an ordinary watch, and the measurement is independent of distance or the coordinate system.
And ditto to the question above. If the coordinate systems are inaccurate are they inaccurate measuring distance or are they inaccurate measuring time or are they inaccurate measuring both?
Flight times will not work without knowing how fast each plane was going. A plane flying 100 MPH will take 6 hours to fly a 600 mile distance while a plane flying 600 MPH will take just 1 hour. If you only looked at the flight times they could vary wildly and show no representation. In my OP i inferred that both planes were traveling the same speed. All someone has to do is that that the distance is wrong and then also the speed is wrong.
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Tom, would you accept evidence based on flight times? Time can be measured using an ordinary watch, and the measurement is independent of distance or the coordinate system.
And ditto to the question above. If the coordinate systems are inaccurate are they inaccurate measuring distance or are they inaccurate measuring time or are they inaccurate measuring both?
Flight times will not work without knowing how fast each plane was going. A plane flying 100 MPH will take 6 hours to fly a 600 mile distance while a plane flying 600 MPH will take just 1 hour. If you only looked at the flight times they could vary wildly and show no representation. In my OP i inferred that both planes were traveling the same speed. All someone has to do is that that the distance is wrong and then also the speed is wrong.
Note my other comments on the flight distance thread, and the chart correlating great circle lines with flight times. If speeds were erratic, this would show up on the chart.
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Excellent video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBP-cNfCuxY) by a longtime airline pilot with a similar challenge to FEers, i.e. to produce a flat projection that maps the flight times and the coordinates. No one managed the challenge (it requires mathematics). The comments from FEers are interesting. A couple of them pretending to be pilots, but they get sent packing
FE ‘pilot’: i don't recall flying over a ball surface as my plane is ALWAYS... ALWAYS... flying 6-7 miles above sea level and maintaining the nose up with the artificial horizon which NEVER... NEVER... drops.
Real pilot: Hello What airline did you fly for? Can you give us a detailed description of the fuel policy for ETP and PNR contingencies please?’
FE ‘pilot’: What does it matter what airline i work for..?? I don't need to discuss my employment or employer details with you... That is NONE of your business and the fact that you would ask that just shows your type of character.’
Real pilot: ‘+You Tube. Another Flat Earth Pilot exposed as a fraud. Thanks for showing us that Flat Earthers are dishonest.’
There were other comments to the effect that if you challenge FE supporters with verifiable facts they will always evade the question, and sometimes lie.
This is beginning to answer my question about human rationality. (1) Evading the question is not necessarily irrational, since it is rational to avoid cognitive dissonance (2) Lying is not irrational, quite the opposite (3) Stupidity is not irrational. A lot of the FEers clearly failed to grasp basic trigonometry, but this does not prove irrationality. To be irrational you would have to clearly grasp the mathematics, yet at the same time deny it, to yourself, consciously.
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Excellent video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBP-cNfCuxY) by a longtime airline pilot with a similar challenge to FEers, i.e. to produce a flat projection that maps the flight times and the coordinates. No one managed the challenge (it requires mathematics). The comments from FEers are interesting. A couple of them pretending to be pilots, but they get sent packing
FE ‘pilot’: i don't recall flying over a ball surface as my plane is ALWAYS... ALWAYS... flying 6-7 miles above sea level and maintaining the nose up with the artificial horizon which NEVER... NEVER... drops.
Real pilot: Hello What airline did you fly for? Can you give us a detailed description of the fuel policy for ETP and PNR contingencies please?’
FE ‘pilot’: What does it matter what airline i work for..?? I don't need to discuss my employment or employer details with you... That is NONE of your business and the fact that you would ask that just shows your type of character.’
Real pilot: ‘+You Tube. Another Flat Earth Pilot exposed as a fraud. Thanks for showing us that Flat Earthers are dishonest.’
There were other comments to the effect that if you challenge FE supporters with verifiable facts they will always evade the question, and sometimes lie.
This is beginning to answer my question about human rationality. (1) Evading the question is not necessarily irrational, since it is rational to avoid cognitive dissonance (2) Lying is not irrational, quite the opposite (3) Stupidity is not irrational. A lot of the FEers clearly failed to grasp basic trigonometry, but this does not prove irrationality. To be irrational you would have to clearly grasp the mathematics, yet at the same time deny it, to yourself, consciously.
This is the foundation of any sort of conspiracy debate. We could debate if there are giant lizard aliens living in every trash can in the world.
To the conspiracy believer any evidence that weakens the giant alien trash can lizards lizards is a lie, inaccurate, or made up.
Any evidence which supports the giant alien trash can lizards lizards is proven fact and true.
Like with the post about flight times. The speeds are inaccurate/made up. The distances are inaccurate/made up. We have been measuring speeds and distances for hundreds and hundreds of years. We have been navigating the planet using astrology for hundreds of years.
Any speeds/distances/navigation systems which weaken (or even cast doubt on) the flat earth conspiracy are a lie, inaccurate, or made up.
Any speeds/distances/navigation systems which support the flat earth conspiracy are a proven fact and true.
Because of this there can be no sort of logical debate without some sort of common ground.
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I just went to book the same fight as you and got 12 hours for your Bejing yo Los Angles fight and 18 hours for your Santiago, Australia fight. I tried this from different companys and got the same. Where did you book your fight?
I wish people would try it before they just agree with you.
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Didn't ignore it.
I tried to book the same fight as him and got 12hours for the yellow line and 18hours for the black line. Tried 3 sites. I can't find any times he's talking about. This 13 and 14.5 hour frame.
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I just went to book the same fight as you and got 12 hours for your Bejing yo Los Angles fight and 18 hours for your Santiago, Australia fight. I tried this from different companys and got the same. Where did you book your fight?
I wish people would try it before they just agree with you.
Here's where I went to book the flight
https://www.qantas.com/au/en/book-a-trip/flights.html (https://www.qantas.com/au/en/book-a-trip/flights.html)
Here's a screenshot showing a 14 hour and 20 minute flight time. I have verified that the departure and arrival times are correct using a very simple method:
I know when to arrive to board the plane which verified the departure time.
My family knows what time to pick me up which verifies the arrival time.
(https://i.imgur.com/tNkDGcB.jpg)
Where on earth did you go to find an 18 hour flight?
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Did you book the flight? How do you know that you will be able to buy it, or that such a flight they end up giving you would be as advertised?
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Did you book the flight? How do you know that you will be able to buy it, or that such a flight they end up giving you would be as advertised?
Are you suggesting that airlines routinely advertise flights which don't exist, or lie about their duration? ???
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Did you book the flight? How do you know that you will be able to buy it, or that such a flight they end up giving you would be as advertised?
Are you suggesting that airlines routinely advertise flights which don't exist, or lie about their duration? ???
We don't know if the system will come back and tell us that the flight is unavailable when purchasing and to take another flight route. The occurence of the airliner rescheduling and adjusting flights is not unknown either. I've experienced flights that were rescheduled by airlines, even without notification, only finding out until trying to check in.
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Did you book the flight? How do you know that you will be able to buy it, or that such a flight they end up giving you would be as advertised?
Are you suggesting that airlines routinely advertise flights which don't exist, or lie about their duration? ???
I've had several flights that were rescheduled by airlines, even without notification, only finding out until trying to check in.
You'll need to prove that those flights were rescheduled specifically to hide that the world is flat then. There are tons of other reasons why they could have been rescheduled.
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We don't know if the system will come back and tell us that the flight is unavailable when purchasing and to take another flight route. The occurrence of the airliner rescheduling and adjusting flights is not unknown either. I've experienced flights that were rescheduled by airlines, even without notification, only finding out until trying to check in.
So what? What does that prove, other than, for instance;
The pilot was taken ill, or delayed in getting to the flight
There was a breakdown with something on the plane
There was a delay due to other planes breaking down and causing a log jam with traffic control
There was an incoming emergency on another flight, and everything had to be delayed for that
Or, as recently happened in the UK
There was a meltdown in the computer system controlling booking, baggage or similar....
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Lots of people have taken those flights and posted about them online, including YouTube. I also know people who have taken those flights. And, of course, conspiracy theorist Max Igan took the flight and reported no anomalies as far as time goes (he did think he had found an anomaly in bearing, but he hadn't accounted for magnetic declination).
I honestly thought that flat earthers had given up on saying things like, "they can't be booked, they can't be taken" a few years ago, given how easy it is to show they can.
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Lots of people have taken those flights and posted about them online, including YouTube. I also know people who have taken those flights. And, of course, conspiracy theorist Max Igan took the flight and reported no anomalies as far as time goes (he did think he had found an anomaly in bearing, but he hadn't accounted for magnetic declination).
I honestly thought that flat earthers had given up on saying things like, "they can't be booked, they can't be taken" a few years ago, given how easy it is to show they can.
I'm not an avid YouTuber. In the past few years various free thinking groups took our ball and ran with it. We approve of this, but we are not always up to date on their world.
If anyone did take such a flight, then they just wasted their money, because we only ever put forward the Monopole map for visualization purposes only.
I took a look at the hot sheets and found some people claiming that Max Igan's flight showed things contrary to Round Earth Theory: https://youtu.be/pWuKU5Uik30 (https://youtu.be/pWuKU5Uik30)
Also, magnetic declanation is when the North-South horizontal magnetic field lines start gettng a bit more vertical in the Antarctic and Arctic circles. It doesn't change the direction of North. It just means that you need to use a dip compass to determine North, otherwise your compass will scrape against its tray.
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Lots of people have taken those flights and posted about them online, including YouTube. I also know people who have taken those flights. And, of course, conspiracy theorist Max Igan took the flight and reported no anomalies as far as time goes (he did think he had found an anomaly in bearing, but he hadn't accounted for magnetic declination).
I honestly thought that flat earthers had given up on saying things like, "they can't be booked, they can't be taken" a few years ago, given how easy it is to show they can.
I'm not an avid YouTuber. In the past few years various free thinking groups took our ball and ran with it. We approve of this, but we are not always up to date on their world.
If anyone did take such a flight, then they just wasted their money, because we only ever put forward the Monopole map and model as an example for visualization purposes only.
I took a look at the hot sheets and found some people claiming that Max Igan's flight showed things contrary to Round Earth Theory: https://youtu.be/pWuKU5Uik30 (https://youtu.be/pWuKU5Uik30)
Also, magnetic declanation is when the magnetic field lines start gettng a bit more vertical in the Antarctic and Arctic circles. It doesn't change the direction of North, to which East and West are always right angles to.
And how does that magnetic declination thingy work on a flat earth model tom? You will have to explain that to me, how the declination increases the more north and south you go, and how that ties in with the magnetic pole(s)?
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The magnetic field lines are horizontal over the earth at mid latitudes and then get more vertical near the poles as they travel into the earth.
It doesn't change the direction of North. It just means that when the field lines start shifting more vertical you need to use a dip compass to determine North, otherwise a normal compass would scrape against its tray.
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Magnetic declination doesn't change the direction of North, to which East and West are always right angles to.
Actually, that's exactly what it does. Or, at least, it changes the direction of magnetic north, in relation to geographic north.
Also, to update you a little more, last time I checked I found 74 direct long distance flights per week which were entirely within the southern hemisphere.
Would you like a list of them?
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The direction of north stays the same. You just need to upgrade your compass to one that can swivel. A normal regular compass will eventually scrape against its tray and cease functioning.
Your criticism of the issue is in error.
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The direction of north stays the same. You just need to upgrade your compass to one that can swivel. A normal regular compass will eventually scrape against its tray and cease functioning.
When you say "north" are you referring to "true north" or "magnetic north"?
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<<silence>>
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Why don't you just look up how the concept works?
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Why don't you just look up how the concept works?
The question, way back, was how magnetic declination works on a flat earth model. I think everyone knows how it works on the standard theory. Can you give a citation to the part of FE theory which explains this? That's all that's being asked.
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Exactly. The only way to know Tom Bishop's 'concept' is to ask Tom Bishop.
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The question was whether magnetic declination of the magnetic field lines involves geographic north or magnetic north. The answer is that the magnetic field lines cause the compass to point towards magnetic north, and so geographic north would be unrelated. The field lines, which cause the compass to point towards magnetic north, are just becoming more vertical (tilting more up and down) as they approach the poles, and a swivel mechanism is needed for compasses to work, and continue to point towards magnetic north, in latitudes approaching those areas.
I believe that this question could have been determined by research of magnetic declination from traditional sources, without spamming for my attention on the forums.
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Stop press! Tom Bishop admits there are two poles! :o
The field lines, which cause the compass to point towards magnetic north, are just becoming more vertical (tilting more up and down) as they approach the poles, and a swivel mechanism is needed for compasses to work, and continue to point towards magnetic north, in latitudes approaching those areas.
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Stop press! Tom Bishop admits there are two poles! :o
The field lines, which cause the compass to point towards magnetic north, are just becoming more vertical (tilting more up and down) as they approach the poles, and a swivel mechanism is needed for compasses to work, and continue to point towards magnetic north, in latitudes approaching those areas.
Tom has espoused the 'bipolar model' for at least as long as I've been on this site, going so far as to state it's the (at least semi-official) model of the FES as of I believe Lady Blount's time, or thereabouts.
This one as a reminder:
(https://wiki.tfes.org/images/c/c2/Altmap.png)
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The question was whether magnetic declination of the magnetic field lines involves geographic north or magnetic north. The answer is that the magnetic field lines cause the compass to point towards magnetic north, and so geographic north would be unrelated. The field lines, which cause the compass to point towards magnetic north, are just becoming more vertical (tilting more up and down) as they approach the poles, and a swivel mechanism is needed for compasses to work, and continue to point towards magnetic north, in latitudes approaching those areas.
I believe that this question could have been determined by research of magnetic declination from traditional sources, without spamming for my attention on the forums.
And how with either the monopole model or duo pole model does the declination work?
On a globe earth the poles are below the magnetic poles, and the lines of force are at 90 degrees to the surface of the earth at the magnetic poles, and radiate from one pole to the next.
What are the lines of force on epithet of the models? If the earth has a monopole at the Center, and a South Pole at the circumfrance, then the lines of force dont work, and you would not get the dip in the south hemisphere, and a compass needle would not know where to point, as there would be no directional force.
On a multi pole earth, as depicted, or any possible depiction, it is not possible that a compass needle points towards the North Pole, at one end, and any possible South Pole at the other end of the needle. Try it. Draw a little compass needle that points at the Center, and then look at the where 180 degrees away from that direction is. There will be only 1 meridian that it works on.
So lines of magnetic force DO NOT work on a flat earth as far as i can see. Maybe you can enlighten and teach me. I cannot find any such descriptions in the Wiki, or in Enag, or other literature.
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Magnetic declination would also occur in a Monopole model. Vertical at the North Pole, and horizontal at mid latitudes, and then intersecting the earth again beyond the Ice Wall circumference.
There were some illustrations floating around, and Pete made some in this link (https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=4599.0), but unfortunately they do not seem to be showing up for me anymore and I failed to create an article for the Wiki.
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Magnetic declination would also occur in a Monopole model. Vertical at the North Pole, and horizontal at mid latitudes, and then intersecting the earth again beyond the Ice Wall diameter.
There were some illustrations floating around, and Pete made some in this link (https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=4599.0), but unfortunately they do not seem to be showing up for me anymore and I failed to create an article for the Wiki.
So if they are intersecting the earths surface beyond the ice wall they are parallel to the surface below the equator?
You do know that the angle of the dip equates to the magnetic lattitude yes? So when the horizontal angle is zero the observer is more or less at the equator, and when the angle of dip is about 45 degrees, the observer is about 45 degrees north or south (magnetic lattitude) so how does that work with the South Pole beyond the ice wall?
Is there a pole all around the ice wall, beyond it? And if so, why does a south seeking compass point south, as there would be no horizontal force from one point to another. Ie when standing looking at the Ice wall, the south end of the compass points south, but I’df the South Pole is ALL ALONG the circumfrance then why does the needle not point to the left or right of where you are looking, as there will be a South Pole there too?
There would be no directional force.
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Here's a magnetic declination map:
(https://i.stack.imgur.com/WV1BK.jpg)
Work for you, T?
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Is there a pole all around the ice wall, beyond it? And if so, why does a south seeking compass point south, as there would be no horizontal force from one point to another. Ie when standing looking at the Ice wall, the south end of the compass points south, but I’df the South Pole is ALL ALONG the circumfrance then why does the needle not point to the left or right of where you are looking, as there will be a South Pole there too?
The magnetic field lines in a magnet only run north-south.
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Here's a magnetic declination:
https://i.stack.imgur.com/WV1BK.jpg
Work for you, T?
The point illustrated in your image is just the theory where the vertical field lines are most vertical and concentrated. One may deign it as the "point of Magnetic South" if one wishes. But the magnetic field lines are still vertical throughout Antarctica. If Antarctica is stretched out, the filed lines are still vertical there.
The actual magnet is deep within the earth and the field lines are intersecting the surface in attempt to reach it.
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Here's a magnetic declination:
https://i.stack.imgur.com/WV1BK.jpg
Work for you, T?
The point illustrated in your image is just the theory where the vertical field lines are most vertical and concentrated. One may deign it as the "point of Magnetic South" if one wishes. But the magnetic field lines are still vertical throughout Antarctica. If Antarctica is stretched out, the filed lines are still vertical there.
The actual magnet is deep within the earth and the field lines are intersecting the surface in attempt to reach it.
Really tom?
I have asked this before, but how do you make that happen? A South Pole that is continuallly along the circumfrsnce behind the ice wall?
If you have a series of vertical bar magnets in the earth perpendicular to the flat earth, then the circumstance will tear itself apart as the south poles repel.
If you have a radial ring type magnet as the Wiki describes, that wouldn’t work either as a ring radial magnet cannot have a point source at the middle, again as the forces would tear it apart as the like pole tries to repel itself.
The multi pole version of the earth does not work either, as no lines of force can be reconciled with Antarctica being on the flat earth.
This topic has got way off line (as usual) and i am happy to start a new thread about the earths magnetic field, but also i know i did start a thread along those lines, with little real response.
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Did you book the flight? How do you know that you will be able to buy it, or that such a flight they end up giving you would be as advertised?
Did I book this particular flight? no.
I have a flown from South America to Australia in less than 15 hours? Yes.
If the flight was booked is a moot point. My OP has already been debunked by saying (on a different thread):
1.over a certain unknown distance, a round earth second is different than a flat earth second and a round earth mile is different than a flat earth mile.
2. The map of the earth that started this original post is inaccurate and no accurate map of the earth exists.
It's a shame that with all the advancements with cartography made since 1600 we still have no idea what the earth looks like. Without an accurate map of the earth, accurate distances, and accurate times I can't help but wonder how on earth any sort of navigation is done at all...
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Did you book the flight? How do you know that you will be able to buy it, or that such a flight they end up giving you would be as advertised?
Did I book this particular flight? no.
I have a flown from South America to Australia in less than 15 hours? Yes.
If the flight was booked is a moot point. My OP has already been debunked by saying (on a different thread):
1.over a certain unknown distance, a round earth second is different than a flat earth second and a round earth mile is different than a flat earth mile.
2. The map of the earth that started this original post is inaccurate and no accurate map of the earth exists.
It's a shame that with all the advancements with cartography made since 1600 we still have no idea what the earth looks like. Without an accurate map of the earth, accurate distances, and accurate times I can't help but wonder how on earth any sort of navigation is done at all...
Navigation happens quite often, and very successfully. There are over 50,000 merchant ships in the world, Plus Many more thousands of private super yachts, and hundreds of thousands of yachts, and likely millions of sailors, and not that many (relatively) go aground or sink, run out of fuel, or get lost due to not knowing where the different continents are, or being surprised by distances from one port to another being different than tabulated and published.
Also planes manage to find their way every day, and that means many millions dont get lost.
Yeah its a wonder how that happens when we dont have any accurate representation of the flat earth at all, not even a vague idea where the continents are.
Of course the answer is simple, we use a globe earth model for navigating, and it works fine. Amazing how all those coincidences add up isn’t it?
We dont know where any land is or size and shape of the continents or bearing or directions between any mcities, ports, islands or other places.
We set out to go from one place to another and millions of times we end up where we need to be at the right time, using the fuel we calculated,
We dont fall out of the sky often or crash, or run out of fuel,
We use the round earth model for all of our calculations,
We use satellites for navigation,
Stars and sun for navigating (depending on the globe earth models)
We dont fall off the edge of the world,
Yet somehow, miraculously this all comes good with no satellites, and a flat earth model no one knows anything about, size, shape, let alone how many poles it has or position of the land masses or where the water is.
Please come on FEers, you have lost, and making embarrassing fools of yourselves thinking that coincidentally all of the things (plus thousands of others) somehow (although reliant upon a globe) coincidentally work on a flat earth.
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Navigation happens quite often, and very successfully. There are over 50,000 merchant ships in the world, Plus Many more thousands of private super yachts, and hundreds of thousands of yachts, and likely millions of sailors, and not that many (relatively) go aground or sink, run out of fuel, or get lost due to not knowing where the different continents are, or being surprised by distances from one port to another being different than tabulated and published.
Also planes manage to find their way every day, and that means many millions dont get lost.
I agree that it does appear that we do have some sort of map of the earth or some sort of accurate navigation systems because ships, planes, trains, helicopters, sailboats, cars, etc all have the ability to travel long distances to specific destinations.
I don't take off for France and wind up in Russia.
I don't go on a road trip to Wyoming and wind up in Mexico.
Please come on FEers, you have lost, and making embarrassing fools of yourselves thinking that coincidentally all of the things (plus thousands of others) somehow (although reliant upon a globe) coincidentally work on a flat earth.
This is incorrect! As long as someone can say that evidence that weakens the flat earth theory is fake, inaccurate, or a lie then losing is impossible.
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Magnetic declination would also occur in a Monopole model. Vertical at the North Pole, and horizontal at mid latitudes, and then intersecting the earth again beyond the Ice Wall circumference.
There were some illustrations floating around, and Pete made some in this link (https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=4599.0), but unfortunately they do not seem to be showing up for me anymore and I failed to create an article for the Wiki.
I think you're confusing magnetic declination with magnetic inclination.
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I recall answering your question when you asked it. A mile is 5280 feet on FE and RE.
1. You didn't provide any evidence that a round earth mile and a flat earth mile are the same.
2. that's not what you said here:
A mile is 5280 feet on a Flat Earth. I don't know what it is on a Round Earth since Round Earth lat/lon coordinate system devices appear to be inaccurate.
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I recall answering your question when you asked it. A mile is 5280 feet on FE and RE.
1. You didn't provide any evidence that a round earth mile and a flat earth mile are the same.
2. that's not what you said here:
A mile is 5280 feet on a Flat Earth. I don't know what it is on a Round Earth since Round Earth lat/lon coordinate system devices appear to be inaccurate.
Longitude is the same.
Latitude ... RE distance * cos(latitude) = FE distance.
Working out anything that isn't due North, South, East, or West is more complicated, but you can google for that yourself.
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RE distance * cos(latitude) = FE distance.
Working out anything that isn't due North, South, East, or West is more complicated, but you can google for that yourself.
This can't possibly correct because the distance between two points could have two latitudes which your equation does not account for.
Even if the starting point and the ending point of the distance measured was on the same latitude this equation still does not work:
I can lay a yardstick down on the ground that's 3 feet. The starting location of the yardstick has a latitude of 1.
3 feet * cos(1) = FE distance
3 * .54 = 1.62
3 round earth feet = 1.62 FE feet? nope.
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1 degrees? You are measuring a patch of snow. It all looks the same. With no distinguishing features, you can't be sure.
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1 degrees? You are measuring a patch of snow. It all looks the same. With no distinguishing features, you can't be sure.
And the patch of snow measurement, according to your formula, was wildly inaccurate.