The Flat Earth Society
Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Community => Topic started by: Yaakov ben Avraham on December 06, 2013, 06:57:32 AM
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Greeting! I have 3 images on my computer re: the Hebrew concept of the Earth. My ancestors believed the Earth to be flat, w/ mountains holding up the firmament of the sky. Above the sky were the waters above the firmament. Above that was the Throne of God. The Earth itself was held up by the columns. Sheol, the abode of the dead, was below the Earth. Around all this was the World Ocean. I'm on my phone, so I can't upload any images. But, you can Google them, I expect. For you FEer's, what do you think of the concept?
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Sorry since I'm not FE, but aside from mountains supporting the firmament this seems good for religious views. You won't get much scientific support on this though since most here aren't of the Hebrew faith.
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Alchemist, I expect you're right. I'm an REer myself, although for a short time I was prepared to give FET a chance. Well, their points are not provable, @ least to me. But, I still find the ancient Hebrew conception fascinating.
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Alchemist, I expect you're right. I'm an REer myself, although for a short time I was prepared to give FET a chance. Well, their points are not provable, @ least to me. But, I still find the ancient Hebrew conception fascinating.
Indeed, you'd think god would have told them something a bit more accurate when he was doling out wisdom to be put in his holy books.
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*GRIN* No one ever said that God was a businessman dictating a letter. Well, Fundies do, but that's beside the point. He made use of poetry, literary convention, allegory, etc. I expect 'the four corners of the Earth' was metaphor. The fact that humans understood it literally (although we don't know that they all did) shows human nature @ its best & worst.
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So god didn't know how his words would be interpreted?
He didn't know the best way to get his true meaning across?
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I'm not sure the shape of the Earth was relevant to the points God was making. After all, you're talking about people that were not likely to travel 50 miles from home in a lifetime. Even traders weren't going to go out of the Levant much or @ all.
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I'm not sure the shape of the Earth was relevant to the points God was making. After all, you're talking about people that were not likely to travel 50 miles from home in a lifetime. Even traders weren't going to go out of the Levant much or @ all.
Seems a little short sighted, wasn't he trying to make a book for all time?
Or should we chuck sections of it (like this one) away as outdated?
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I'm not sure the shape of the Earth was relevant to the points God was making. After all, you're talking about people that were not likely to travel 50 miles from home in a lifetime. Even traders weren't going to go out of the Levant much or @ all.
Seems a little short sighted, wasn't he trying to make a book for all time?
Or should we chuck sections of it (like this one) away as outdated?
Again, talking from an outside perspective here, but I see the Old Testament's laws as a means to promote longevity and reproduction among the Jewish people. Basically, it's to up their odds of survival.
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Well, I don:t think the book was intended to be a science book. The point wasn't to teach facts about the planet. If that were the case, he'd have taught us about jet engines & how to fly. The text would be literally millions of pgs long, w/ every single part of our lives mapped out. We'd be robots, w/o free will. No, God gave us only that knowledge we needed. The rest is for us to learn.
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Well, I don:t think the book was intended to be a science book. The point wasn't to teach facts about the planet. If that were the case, he'd have taught us about jet engines & how to fly. The text would be literally millions of pgs long, w/ every single part of our lives mapped out. We'd be robots, w/o free will. No, God gave us only that knowledge we needed. The rest is for us to learn.
And if we learn that land is just land and that where we live is a lot less important than how we live?
well wouldn't that be a fine thing for some people and places.
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Well, I'm inclined to believe what is clearly written in Torah, & whose land it is is pretty clearly spelled out.
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Well, I'm inclined to believe what is clearly written in Torah, & whose land it is is pretty clearly spelled out.
as was the sky being held up by the mountains....
Make your mind up.
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Actually, no, the Bible nowhere gives a clear explanation of a flat earth. It does talk about the 4 corners of the Earth, & does vaguely insinuate a flat earth, but the Hebrews shared their belief in the earth's flatness & the characteristics thereof w/ their pagan neighbours, & likely derived alot of the details that I described from them.
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Greeting! I have 3 images on my computer re: the Hebrew concept of the Earth. My ancestors believed the Earth to be flat, w/ mountains holding up the firmament of the sky. Above the sky were the waters above the firmament. Above that was the Throne of God. The Earth itself was held up by the columns. Sheol, the abode of the dead, was below the Earth. Around all this was the World Ocean. I'm on my phone, so I can't upload any images. But, you can Google them, I expect. For you FEer's, what do you think of the concept?
I hath seen these types of pictures before and tis indeed find them intresting! I do beleive there is some type of truth to them and I beleive you know my beleif in the four corners of the world and im begining to beleive in the infinite earth thoery but im still not totaley sure. For example I look at the waters in the firmanent to be the clouds and I also beleive Sheol to litraley be in the earths underground but it is phisicley imposible to get to pherhaps existing in a spirtuel dimension/plane. And if the infinite earth is real then the world ocean sureley surouds it. Anyway im glad that you have decided to share this with people umfamilar with Jewish flat earthism :)
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I should point out that modern Jews don't believe in FET, @ least I never met one that did. The ancient concept was one that was shared throughout the Levant & the Fertile Crescent, by people as diverse as the Hebrews & the Babylonians.
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I should point out that modern Jews don't believe in FET, @ least I never met one that did. The ancient concept was one that was shared throughout the Levant & the Fertile Crescent, by people as diverse as the Hebrews & the Babylonians.
I am well aware of that RET has taken over even the most traditionel folk but it is rooted in Hebrew cosmologey
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I find it curious that most of the FEers on these fora are atheist/agnostic. Given that the history of the FES is intimately intertwined w/ Scriptural (both Jewish & Christian) justification for such a belief, it makes me wonder what happened.
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Modern secular life happened.
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Markjo, in the USA, 86% of people identify as Christian. 46% attend a house of worship @ least once a month. I know Western Europe is much more secular, but still, outright atheism is rare there too. Most people in Western Europe prefer a vague Deism. So why is the FES, whose strength has always been the UK & the US, different?
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I think that the FES community is too small of a population to be able to draw any meaningful conclusions.
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Now that is a good point that I had not previously considered.
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Markjo, in the USA, 86% of people identify as Christian. 46% attend a house of worship @ least once a month. I know Western Europe is much more secular, but still, outright atheism is rare there too. Most people in Western Europe prefer a vague Deism. So why is the FES, whose strength has always been the UK & the US, different?
Athiesm is pretty common in the UK.
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Markjo, in the USA, 86% of people identify as Christian. 46% attend a house of worship @ least once a month. I know Western Europe is much more secular, but still, outright atheism is rare there too. Most people in Western Europe prefer a vague Deism. So why is the FES, whose strength has always been the UK & the US, different?
Athiesm is pretty common in the UK.
No, we have the irritating variety. New atheists. Regular atheists are as rare as rocking horse poo.
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Define "new atheists".
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Define "new atheists".
New Atheism is a social and political movement in favour of atheism and secularism promoted by a collection of modern atheist writers who have advocated the view that "religion should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized, and exposed by rational argument wherever its influence arises."[1] There is uncertainty about how much influence the movement has had on religious demographics, but the increase in atheist groups, student societies, publications and public appearances has coincided with the non-religious being the largest growing demographic, closely followed by Islam and evangelicalism in the US and UK.[2]
New Atheism lends itself to and often overlaps with secular humanism and antitheism, particularly in its criticism of the indoctrination of children and perpetuation of ideologies.
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New atheism is still atheism.
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Markjo, in the USA, 86% of people identify as Christian. 46% attend a house of worship @ least once a month. I know Western Europe is much more secular, but still, outright atheism is rare there too. Most people in Western Europe prefer a vague Deism. So why is the FES, whose strength has always been the UK & the US, different?
We're an internet community. Internet communities tend to be more secular than physical ones, in my experience. I don't really know why.
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Markjo, in the USA, 86% of people identify as Christian. 46% attend a house of worship @ least once a month. I know Western Europe is much more secular, but still, outright atheism is rare there too. Most people in Western Europe prefer a vague Deism. So why is the FES, whose strength has always been the UK & the US, different?
We're an internet community. Internet communities tend to be more secular than physical ones, in my experience. I don't really know why.
less community pressure to conform.
At least when it comes to religion.