The Flat Earth Society
Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Community => Topic started by: tyler134789 on October 23, 2017, 06:08:47 PM
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Members of the Flat Earth Society:
I have two questions for all of you. What makes you think Earth is flat? Why is your argument relevant to everyday life?
Earth is round. There are many things that can be done to prove it. One is the classic ship sinking into the horizon. Ships appear to go bottom first through the Earth's curvature.
If the government is lying about round Earth theory, what are they going to gain from it? They would have told the general public if the Earth really is flat. There really is no real purpose to hiding the true shape of Earth. There is nothing to gain.
There are some airplane paths over the Atlantic that allow you to see the Earth's curvature.
Challenge my thinking.
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Members of the Flat Earth Society:
I have one question for all of you. What makes you think Earth is flat? Why is your argument relevant to everyday life?
Errr that's two questions doofus.
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Members of the Flat Earth Society:
I have one question for all of you. What makes you think Earth is flat? Why is your argument relevant to everyday life?
Errr that's two questions doofus.
While this is a low-effort thread by OP, there is no need for personal attacks in the upper fora. You were already on 3 warnings, so have a few days off to review the rules.
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Members of the Flat Earth Society:
I have one question for all of you. What makes you think Earth is flat? Why is your argument relevant to everyday life?
Errr that's two questions doofus.
You're right. My mistake. Will fix
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If you take a philosophy of pure empiricism you will find that the earth is flat and that it is the burden of the authority to conclusively prove its case.
Those of us who have assessed their evidence have found the evidence presented to be lacking and questionable, hence our existence.
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If you take a philosophy of pure empiricism you will find that the earth is flat and that it is the burden of the authority to conclusively prove its case.
Those of us who have assessed their evidence have found the evidence presented to be lacking and questionable, hence our existence.
So you guess that it's flat (with no valid evidence) and then make the most exacting demands imaginable for the conclusive proofs of the round earth. Seems like a double-standard to me.
If you truly doubt the roundness of the earth, then you should line up a table with all of the plusses and minusses of the two theories. If you do that, then on the Flat Earth side, you have one hokey experiment by Rowbotham (which has been both debunked and re-tested - finding he was incorrect)...and some other "vision over water" results that are always somewhat dubious.
On the RE side we have at least a dozen argument's that I've personally made here - for which no reasonable response has emerged.
The balance is NOT on your side!
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If you take a philosophy of pure empiricism you will find that the earth is flat and that it is the burden of the authority to conclusively prove its case.
Those of us who have assessed their evidence have found the evidence presented to be lacking and questionable, hence our existence.
So you guess that it's flat (with no valid evidence) and then make the most exacting demands imaginable for the conclusive proofs of the round earth. Seems like a double-standard to me.
Flat Earth is not a guess. A flat earth is our empirical reality. It is the prevailing truth which must be contradicted.
Sadly, those contradictions are not very powerful when challenged.
If you truly doubt the roundness of the earth, then you should line up a table with all of the plusses and minusses of the two theories. If you do that, then on the Flat Earth side, you have one hokey experiment by Rowbotham (which has been both debunked and re-tested - finding he was incorrect)...and some other "vision over water" results that are always somewhat dubious.
I've already looked through all of it. In the many flat earth books and journals and recent youtube videos there are a LOT of water convexity experiments to make one question.
But that is not really why I question the globe. I question the globe because I find the evidence for a globe earth to be unsatisfactory.
On the RE side we have at least a dozen argument's that I've personally made here - for which no reasonable response has emerged.
The balance is NOT on your side!
Your arguments tend to not be very original, and have all been discussed before, over and over, year after year. I have found nothing which is unexplainable. There are answers to all of your questions in the search function between this website and the other one. Your idea that we need to be here to have the same conversation every few months and that if no one is here to debate with you, that you win, is delusional. It is not my job to stay on this forum 24/7 to copy and paste answers from the forum/wiki/literature search functions for you.
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It is not my job to stay on this forum 24/7 to copy and paste answers from the forum/wiki/literature search functions for you.
Indeed - your job is to get schooled, and look bad doing it. None of your opponents care about convincing you, but about showing bystanders, lurkers, onlookers, etc., exactly how empty, how unsubstantial, how contradictory, how bonkers your misinformation campaign is.
so, you're doing great, champ
Regarding the topic as OP framed it though: It is not hard to realize Earth is round. (https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1536&bih=758&btnG=Search&q=earth+from+space) Thinking the Earth is flat requires willful ignorance and dedication to a conspiracy to fake space travel, which is not easy to pick up. Open minds proceeding empirically conclude the Earth is not flat.
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It is not my job to stay on this forum 24/7 to copy and paste answers from the forum/wiki/literature search functions for you.
Indeed - your job is to get schooled, and look bad doing it. None of your opponents care about convincing you, but about showing bystanders, lurkers, onlookers, etc., exactly how empty, how unsubstantial, how contradictory, how bonkers your misinformation campaign is.
so, you're doing great, champ
Regarding the topic as OP framed it though: It is not hard to realize Earth is round. (https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1536&bih=758&btnG=Search&q=earth+from+space) Thinking the Earth is flat requires willful ignorance and dedication to a conspiracy to fake space travel, which is not easy to pick up. Open minds proceeding empirically conclude the Earth is not flat.
You nailed it. I don't post to convert Tom and his ilk, I post for the undecided or curious. Tom harps on empiricism all the time. Funny, I see the sun RISE on my way to work this time of year. I can see clouds illuminated from below and I can see lower clouds casting shadows on higher clouds. From my office I can see ships going over the very sharp horizon. That empirical evidence combined with the mountain of data from various legitimate sources overrides any crackpot Youtube video.
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Your arguments tend to not be very original, and have all been discussed before, over and over, year after year. I have found nothing which is unexplainable. There are answers to all of your questions in the search function between this website and the other one. Your idea that we need to be here to have the same conversation every few months and that if no one is here to debate with you, that you win, is delusional. It is not my job to stay on this forum 24/7 to copy and paste answers from the forum/wiki/literature search functions for you.
But yet you DO post here - you answer dozens and dozens of EASY questions - the ones you feel on safe ground about - yet you STILL won't answer the question about the actual physical path the photons take when travelling from the sun to my eye at sunset!
And *NO* you have NOT answered that before...I've looked - and you evade it over and over again! At one time, you had the "Electromagnetic Accelerator" answer - which did at least say where the photons went. (It didn't work though - as I'm sure you've now realized).
But now you simultaneously assert that light travels in straight lines - AND that it descends from 3,000 miles up to zero altitude over a distance of 6,000 miles - then levels out for the last few miles to reach my eye. That is CLEARLY not a straight line.
But will you even try to explain it? NO, YOU DO NOT.
Many weeks ago, you said you'd start a new thread to answer this pressing question - but three weeks and more have now passed - and guess what? NO ANSWER.
So - we're supposed to assume you have a mysterious and wonderful answer - but don't have the time to post it here - when you're posting dozens and dozens of other easy answers?
NO - the underlying assumption is that you don't have a single idea how to answer it....and there's a reason for that...THE EARTH ISN'T FLAT.
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Your arguments tend to not be very original, and have all been discussed before, over and over, year after year. I have found nothing which is unexplainable. There are answers to all of your questions in the search function between this website and the other one. Your idea that we need to be here to have the same conversation every few months and that if no one is here to debate with you, that you win, is delusional. It is not my job to stay on this forum 24/7 to copy and paste answers from the forum/wiki/literature search functions for you.
But yet you DO post here - you answer dozens and dozens of EASY questions - the ones you feel on safe ground about - yet you STILL won't answer the question about the actual physical path the photons take when travelling from the sun to my eye at sunset!
And *NO* you have NOT answered that before...I've looked - and you evade it over and over again! At one time, you had the "Electromagnetic Accelerator" answer - which did at least say where the photons went. (It didn't work though - as I'm sure you've now realized).
But now you simultaneously assert that light travels in straight lines - AND that it descends from 3,000 miles up to zero altitude over a distance of 6,000 miles - then levels out for the last few miles to reach my eye. That is CLEARLY not a straight line.
But will you even try to explain it? NO, YOU DO NOT.
Many weeks ago, you said you'd start a new thread to answer this pressing question - but three weeks and more have now passed - and guess what? NO ANSWER.
So - we're supposed to assume you have a mysterious and wonderful answer - but don't have the time to post it here - when you're posting dozens and dozens of other easy answers?
NO - the underlying assumption is that you don't have a single idea how to answer it....and there's a reason for that...THE EARTH ISN'T FLAT.
I did answer your questions. I am pretty sure that I have at least 8 full pages of content explaining why your physical model does not apply. We went over it again recently. But fine, I will make you a thread and rephrase it for you yet again.
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I did answer your questions. I am pretty sure that I have at least 8 full pages of content explaining why your physical model does not apply. We went over it again recently. But fine, I will make you a thread and rephrase it for you yet again.
That's not the question that was asked. What path do the photons ACTUALLY take. Where do they go? What is their path through space?
That is the question that separates the men from the boys here. And you can't answer it.
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I did answer your questions. I am pretty sure that I have at least 8 full pages of content explaining why your physical model does not apply. We went over it again recently. But fine, I will make you a thread and rephrase it for you yet again.
That's not the question that was asked. What path do the photons ACTUALLY take. Where do they go? What is their path through space?
That is the question that separates the men from the boys here. And you can't answer it.
Again, already answered. Your model of the world does not actually exist and your criticisms are fallacious. The path was already explained to you.
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I would like to remind many posters here that presupposing the earth is round is not a valid way of arguing that it is round. Asking the question "If the earth is round, then how is it flat?" is not acceptable in any methodology of fact verification, scientific, zetetic, or otherwise.
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You know what is a valid way of arguing the Earth is round, though?
lookin'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtU_mdL2vBM
If you want to argue that the Earth is flat, you have to prove the Space Travel Conspiracy.
presupposing the earth is flat is not a valid way of arguing that it is flat, so you can't just handwave space travel because it doesn't fit what you claim to know. That's not acceptable in any methodology yada yada you get the point.
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Ah, yes, and here's a valid way to prove that Luke Skywalker exists:
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/b/b0/Tatooine_TPM.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/350?cb=20131019121937)
Look, that's Tatooine, his home planet!
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;)
At least it's easy to show beyond reasonable doubt that Star Wars is fiction, if seriously pressed. (http://www.starwarslocations.com/swarchive/GeographicStarWars2/dunes.htm)
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Minute 14:20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGP6Y0Pnhe4
Quick questions.
Can you disclose how much money this society has collected from sales and donations?
Can you tell me also if you have any other theories that can be used to make money from other people? I will be happy to create a forum and sell shirts if this proof to be a good business. Fox News seems to be profitable.
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I don't post to convert Tom and his ilk, I post for the undecided or curious.
Which is always much appreciated (except when it relies on lies, but those are easily corrected). The RE'ers' contribution to our efforts is perhaps one of the best recruitment mechanism we've ever had. Couldn't ask for more!
Can you disclose how much money this society has collected from sales and donations?
No problem. Throughout our existence, we have amassed $0.00. We do not accept donations, and our Cafepress storefront has all markups set to 0 - all prices are set by their business.
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I don't post to convert Tom and his ilk, I post for the undecided or curious.
Which is always much appreciated (except when it relies on lies, but those are easily corrected). The RE'ers' contribution to our efforts is perhaps one of the best recruitment mechanism we've ever had. Couldn't ask for more!
Can you disclose how much money this society has collected from sales and donations?
No problem. Throughout our existence, we have amassed $0.00. We do not accept donations, and our Cafepress storefront has all markups set to 0 - all prices are set by their business.
Sadly none of your efforts have managed to prove the earth is anything but round.
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I don't post to convert Tom and his ilk, I post for the undecided or curious.
Which is always much appreciated (except when it relies on lies, but those are easily corrected). The RE'ers' contribution to our efforts is perhaps one of the best recruitment mechanism we've ever had. Couldn't ask for more!
Can you disclose how much money this society has collected from sales and donations?
No problem. Throughout our existence, we have amassed $0.00. We do not accept donations, and our Cafepress storefront has all markups set to 0 - all prices are set by their business.
Ahh, Peter decided to pop in and make another unsupported statement. Cool and thanks for your contributions.
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I don't post to convert Tom and his ilk, I post for the undecided or curious.
Which is always much appreciated (except when it relies on lies, but those are easily corrected). The RE'ers' contribution to our efforts is perhaps one of the best recruitment mechanism we've ever had. Couldn't ask for more!
Can you disclose how much money this society has collected from sales and donations?
No problem. Throughout our existence, we have amassed $0.00. We do not accept donations, and our Cafepress storefront has all markups set to 0 - all prices are set by their business.
Ahh, Peter decided to pop in and make another unsupported statement. Cool and thanks for your contributions.
You asked a question and he answered. Do you think you are entitled to see the finances of the society? This is not a public institution.
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Sadly none of your efforts have managed to prove the earth is anything but round.
On the contrary - we're doing better by the day. As I said, you hecklers make for a great recruitment tool :)
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I don't post to convert Tom and his ilk, I post for the undecided or curious.
Which is always much appreciated (except when it relies on lies, but those are easily corrected). The RE'ers' contribution to our efforts is perhaps one of the best recruitment mechanism we've ever had. Couldn't ask for more!
Can you disclose how much money this society has collected from sales and donations?
No problem. Throughout our existence, we have amassed $0.00. We do not accept donations, and our Cafepress storefront has all markups set to 0 - all prices are set by their business.
Ahh, Peter decided to pop in and make another unsupported statement. Cool and thanks for your contributions.
You asked a question and he answered. Do you think you are entitled to see the finances of the society? This is not a public institution.
I didn't ask a question.
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If you take a philosophy of pure empiricism you will find that the earth is flat and that it is the burden of the authority to conclusively prove its case.
Those of us who have assessed their evidence have found the evidence presented to be lacking and questionable, hence our existence.
What aspects of round earth evidence do you find lacking? Is it satellites, measured distances, angles of the sun? All easily checked.
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Ahh, Peter decided to pop in and make another unsupported statement. Cool and thanks for your contributions.
Proving a negative (we don't accept donations) is always a funny subject, but a complete absence of evidence of the positive should be a hint. There isn't a Flat Earth Society bank account anywhere, and if you tried to make a donation, we'd simply tell you there's no way of doing that currently, and no plans of establishing it for the future. (The question has been asked in the past. (https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=678.0)) If you have found evidence to the contrary, I encourage you to bring it to light.
Regarding the Cafepress store, it's best verified by yourself. Why take my word for it? Take a look at Cafepress's base prices (http://www.cafepress.co.uk/cp/info/help/pricing_policy.aspx) and compare them to our store (http://www.cafepress.com/theflatearthsociety).
See, this is the thing about RE'ers. They need to be handheld through establishing the blindingly obvious, constantly asking for special treatment because Google is hard. Boo-hoo, your response to some random guy's baseless accusations was unsubstantiated! Grow up.
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Ahh, Peter decided to pop in and make another unsupported statement. Cool and thanks for your contributions.
Proving a negative (we don't accept donations) is always a funny subject, but a complete absence of evidence of the positive should be a hint. There isn't a Flat Earth Society bank account anywhere, and if you tried to make a donation, we'd simply tell you there's no way of doing that currently, and no plans of establishing it for the future. (The question has been asked in the past. (https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=678.0)) If you have found evidence to the contrary, I encourage you to bring it to light.
Regarding the Cafepress store, it's best verified by yourself. Why take my word for it? Take a look at Cafepress's base prices (http://www.cafepress.co.uk/cp/info/help/pricing_policy.aspx) and compare them to our store (http://www.cafepress.com/theflatearthsociety).
See, this is the thing about RE'ers. They need to be handheld through establishing the blindingly obvious, constantly asking for special treatment because Google is hard. Boo-hoo, your response to baseless accusations was unsubstantiated! Grow up.
No Peter, you have a history of popping into threads, saying the equivalent of "you're wrong", and bolting. If you have a point to make, then make it. Otherwise, you're just another low content poster. And your concept of blindingly obvious is certainly up for debate. You think the Earth is flat when it is blindingly obvious to anyone that doesn't buy into the whole "NASA IS LYING!!!!" story that it is a globe.
I never commented on funding for the site, nor do I care.
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No Peter, you have a history of popping into threads, saying the equivalent of "you're wrong", and bolting. If you have a point to make, then make it.
I did make a point, and I didn't "bolt" (in fact, I'm usually fairly happy to answer follow-up questions if a Round Earther with entitlement issues confronts me on something blindingly obvious - this thread is just one of many examples).
The person in question (not you, as you wisely noted) tried to suggest that I'm profiting from my activity here. This is an accusation that shouldn't require much more than a "lol no" from me, if it was presented without evidence. Nonetheless, since you (not the person concerned, as you wisely noted) have failed to assess the situation for yourself before blurting out a comment, I've provided you with assistance. I hope it helps, and I hope you will endeavour to improve your Google-fu in the future.
I never commented on funding for the site, nor do I care.
For someone who doesn't care, you sure talk a lot, bucko.
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But fine, I will make you a thread and rephrase it for you yet again.
That's what you said three weeks ago too.
I have just looked back over your last posts - and I don't see where you explained the path taken by the photons. Lots more stuff about vanishing points and so forth - but no actual description of where the photons PHYSICALLY travel.
What I've seen is two contradictory statements: (1) That light travels in straight lines and (2) that magic perspective bends it somehow in order to get from 3,000 mile up and 6,000 miles away - and yet to skim the horizon and reach my eye.
If what you say is true - then somehow you have to resolve this contradiction - and you cannot. You have to continually try to invoke perspective (which implies some kind of focussing device or a pinhole or something) - and you CANNOT explain to us where the actual photons travel without EITHER admitting that light doesn't travel in straight lines - OR that there cannot be sunsets.
Anyway...as before...I await your new thread with a clear explanation...three weeks and counting.
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Can you disclose how much money this society has collected from sales and donations?
No problem. Throughout our existence, we have amassed $0.00. We do not accept donations, and our Cafepress storefront has all markups set to 0 - all prices are set by their business.
To be honest, we are in the red. Parsifal pays out of his own pocket to host this community ad-free. Pete and I have also spent our own money to improve our social media following (although I am sure Pete has spent much more than me).
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To be honest, we are in the red. Parsifal pays out of his own pocket to host this community ad-free. Pete and I have also spent our own money to improve our social media following (although I am sure Pete has spent much more than me).
This is true. I was more focusing on the fact that we have no income to begin with, rather than the balance of expenses.
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i've been on .org since the split. the idea that anyone is using this forum to make money is totally absurd.
round earth dudes and dudettes: chill out a little bit. lol i think science can survive a few polemics on a web forum.
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No Peter, you have a history of popping into threads, saying the equivalent of "you're wrong", and bolting. If you have a point to make, then make it.
I did make a point, and I didn't "bolt" (in fact, I'm usually fairly happy to answer follow-up questions if a Round Earther with entitlement issues confronts me on something blindingly obvious - this thread is just one of many examples).
The person in question (not you, as you wisely noted) tried to suggest that I'm profiting from my activity here. This is an accusation that shouldn't require much more than a "lol no" from me, if it was presented without evidence. Nonetheless, since you (not the person concerned, as you wisely noted) have failed to assess the situation for yourself before blurting out a comment, I've provided you with assistance. I hope it helps, and I hope you will endeavour to improve your Google-fu in the future.
I never commented on funding for the site, nor do I care.
For someone who doesn't care, you sure talk a lot, bucko.
I don't care if the site makes money or not. More power to ya. I absolutely care about debating the topics on the site.
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But fine, I will make you a thread and rephrase it for you yet again.
That's what you said three weeks ago too.
I have just looked back over your last posts - and I don't see where you explained the path taken by the photons. Lots more stuff about vanishing points and so forth - but no actual description of where the photons PHYSICALLY travel.
What I've seen is two contradictory statements: (1) That light travels in straight lines and (2) that magic perspective bends it somehow in order to get from 3,000 mile up and 6,000 miles away - and yet to skim the horizon and reach my eye.
If what you say is true - then somehow you have to resolve this contradiction - and you cannot. You have to continually try to invoke perspective (which implies some kind of focussing device or a pinhole or something) - and you CANNOT explain to us where the actual photons travel without EITHER admitting that light doesn't travel in straight lines - OR that there cannot be sunsets.
Anyway...as before...I await your new thread with a clear explanation...three weeks and counting.
Can you not derail every thread TB posts in with this? It is already in your signature. If a thread on the topic comes about, take it there, or another thread where that is the topic.
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I don't post to convert Tom and his ilk, I post for the undecided or curious.
Which is always much appreciated (except when it relies on lies, but those are easily corrected). The RE'ers' contribution to our efforts is perhaps one of the best recruitment mechanism we've ever had. Couldn't ask for more!
Can you disclose how much money this society has collected from sales and donations?
No problem. Throughout our existence, we have amassed $0.00. We do not accept donations, and our Cafepress storefront has all markups set to 0 - all prices are set by their business.
Well that explains why there is no map research.
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To be honest, we are in the red. Parsifal pays out of his own pocket to host this community ad-free. Pete and I have also spent our own money to improve our social media following (although I am sure Pete has spent much more than me).
And I'm sure we all appreciate the sacrifice.
It should be mentioned though that web hosting services for something as simple as a small Wiki and a 100 post-per-day forum comes in at about $5/month if it's the ONLY web site you host. I host about a dozen sites with a total of around a terabyte of data and vastly more traffic on a $9.99/month server at DreamHosts...so if you can piggy-back on some existing web site need - the costs should be VERY small.
If you're paying much more than $10/month then you need to find a cheaper web provider.
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It should be mentioned though that web hosting services for something as simple as a small Wiki and a 100 post-per-day forum comes in at about $5/month if it's the ONLY web site you host. I host about a dozen sites with a total of around a terabyte of data and vastly more traffic on a $9.99/month server at DreamHosts...so if you can piggy-back on some existing web site need - the costs should be VERY small.
If you're paying much more than $10/month then you need to find a cheaper web provider.
I've already tried explaining this to you once, but let's have a go at it again:
- You have literally no understanding of how we operate, or what Parsifal uses his server for. I don't blame you, but stop acting like you know the use case here.
- dreamhost.com is ridiuculously expensive for what they offer, and what they offer is different from what we want.
- I'm not sure how you concluded that by "improving our social media following" junker may have meant web hosting costs, but I assure you that he did not.
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It should be mentioned though that web hosting services for something as simple as a small Wiki and a 100 post-per-day forum comes in at about $5/month if it's the ONLY web site you host. I host about a dozen sites with a total of around a terabyte of data and vastly more traffic on a $9.99/month server at DreamHosts...so if you can piggy-back on some existing web site need - the costs should be VERY small.
If you're paying much more than $10/month then you need to find a cheaper web provider.
I've already tried explaining this to you once, but let's have a go at it again:
- You have literally no understanding of how we operate, or what Parsifal uses his server for. I don't blame you, but stop acting like you know the use case here.
- dreamhost.com is ridiuculously expensive for what they offer, and what they offer is different from what we want.
- I'm not sure how you concluded that by "improving our social media following" junker may have meant web hosting costs, but I assure you that he did not.
I don't know why you're on my case about this one - I did CLEARLY say that I was talking about Web Hosting fees and not other stuff. Please don't assume bad faith. I've come across sites about as large/complex as this one before who were paying some shysters $50 and $100 a month for "web maintenance" - so it's worth pointing out that there are much cheaper options. That's all I wanted to pass on.
Doubtless you could have decided to spend money on things like FaceBook ads or whatever - but I gave no input on that. I would say htat FB ads and similar social media adverts work best to an already sympathetic audience - and that's not your problem here.
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I forgot to ask you directly what do you see on the video i posted. Minute 14. Please.
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Hi have you people ever seen pictures of the Earth?