The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Theory => Topic started by: Boots on August 22, 2016, 04:48:51 AM

Title: It shouldn't be that hard to settle whether the earth is round.
Post by: Boots on August 22, 2016, 04:48:51 AM

Hello,

I just joined this site. I am not a flat-earther so I hope it's OK that I'm here. I wanted to ask a few questions regarding the shape of the earth. First, if you leave from any point on the earth, say in a plane, and continually travel in a straight line east will you not eventually end up where you started? If you did this only once from one location you would only have proved that at least the earth was disc shaped. If you went further north and/or south and did the same thing you would have proved the earth was at least cylindrical. If you did this numerous times at different latitudes and fairly consistent elevations you could soon get a pretty good idea as to whether the earth had the characteristics of a sphere by measuring your distances. I have no idea what flat-earthers believe regarding the magnetic field, but you could do the same thing by travelling in a straight line along a line of longitude. Depending on where you started, your compass would likely change directions a couple of times.

Also, if you stand on the shore at the ocean and watch a ship coming or going you will see it rising into view or falling away from view respectively. This becomes more evident if you have some binoculars or a telescope.

These are things that aren't that hard to do, and in fact have been done. They do not require any input from NASA or any other government organization.

Since these are such simple suggestions, I'm sure they've been answered. However, I don't know your answer to these questions since I am new to this site, but I would like to. Hence, this post.

Title: Re: It shouldn't be that hard to settle whether the earth is round.
Post by: Boots on August 22, 2016, 06:41:08 AM

Also, ask earth levelers. They are about as far from NASA propagandists as you can get. But they will tell you that you can only use a laser for about 1/4 of a mile. After that it is not accurate enough. This is because the laser is shooting in a straight line which is level with the position of the laser. As you move further away from the laser, it gradually begins to shoot "uphill" in relation to the earth at that location. Up until 1/4 mile the effect is small enough to ignore. After that they need to make an adjustment -  otherwise, according to how water behaves, they will be going uphill and not level.

Title: Re: It shouldn't be that hard to settle whether the earth is round.
Post by: Boots on August 22, 2016, 09:46:00 AM

I should have done this first I guess, but I have been reading the FAQ page. Now I am really amazed. Newtons universal law of gravity is discredited and an alternative theory which posits that the earth is infinitely accelerating is given. Occam's Razor is definitely not being applied on this site, or rather I should say, it is being inversely applied. As in: the most complicated and least substantiated explanation shall be taken as the correct one.

Title: Re: It shouldn't be that hard to settle whether the earth is round.
Post by: rabinoz on August 22, 2016, 12:49:06 PM

Quote from: Boots on August 22, 2016, 09:46:00 AM

I should have done this first I guess, but I have been reading the FAQ page. Now I am really amazed. Newtons universal law of gravity is discredited and an alternative theory which posits that the earth is infinitely accelerating is given. Occam's Razor is definitely not being applied on this site, or rather I should say, it is being inversely applied. As in: the most complicated and least substantiated explanation shall be taken as the correct one.

Now you're learning!
Any evidence against the Flat Earth is:

• If it's a photograph, it's "PhotoShopped".
  
  
• If it's an observation near the horizon (ships disappearing, sunset sunrise etc), it's explainable by perspective.
  
  
• If it is to do with moon phases and eclipses, "we don't know how light travels over such huge distances.

If it's explaining Flat Earth theory:

• If it's a photograph, it's always genuine, no proof needed.
  
  
• If it's explaining gravity, things like Universal Acceleration don't need evidence.
  
  
• If explaining the long transit times of radar to/from the moon, etc, it's the drastic slowing if radar waves through the ::) aetheric whirlpool  ::): no evidence needed.
  
  
• If it's explaining the constancy of the sun's magnitude through the day, it's the "known magnification . . . through the layers of the atmoplane', no evidence needed.
  
  
• If it's claiming that the "horizon always rises to the eye of the observer"^[1], it just does - no proof needed.
  
  
• etc, etc ad nauseum!

[1] The horizon does not rise to the eye of the observer.
      Perspective does cause it appear to almost do it, see:  Flat Earth Debunked: The Horizon Always at Eye Level. (https://youtu.be/2-vRzQ_GDV0)

Title: Re: It shouldn't be that hard to settle whether the earth is round.
Post by: geckothegeek on August 22, 2016, 04:44:31 PM

I know the so-called Flat Earth Society will never do this but I think it would stop all this bickering and trading insults back and forth between "RE" and "FE" if the stated  purpose of this website was.:
"The  Flat Earth Society exists  for the discussion of ideas on what and how things would have to be IF the earth was flat."

It has been long settled that the earth is "round" or globe shaped anyway.

Just one more example of a flat earth fallacy is the horizon itself. If you are at sea in the middle of the ocean or standing on the beach or shore lookiing out to sea on a clear, calm day with no unusual atmospheric conditions you wiil naturally see a distinct line where the sea and sky meet. This is the horizon. And you can estimate the distance you can see to the horizon by a simple formula : The distance to the horizon in miles is equal to 1.23 (a constant) times the square root of the height of the observer in feet. Navy Manuals have instructions for lookouts for estimating these distances. If you are a 6 feet tall person standing on the beach or shore you can see about 3  miles to the horizon. If you are a lookout in the crow's nest, 100 feet above the level of the sea, you could see about 12 miles to the horizon.

But flat earth says you would not see the horizon but just " An indistinct blur which fades away in the distance at some indeterminate distance." 
IF the earth WAS flat , this IS what you WOULD see, but it should be obvious to the most casual observer that this IS NOT what you ACTUALLY see.

This is just one more example of an obvious flat earth fallacy.

Here is another one.Not necessarily whether the earth is round or flat.
Since the sun is a spot light (or acts like a spot light ?) and the sun and the moon are both the same size -  32 miles in diameter - and some some 3000 miles from the earth (So says flat earth) the moon is not iluminated by the sun. The moon is "self illuminated" by "bio-illimunescent" creatures called "moonshrimp" or "moonshramp".  The illumination and phases of the moon are caused by regular migrations of these creatures back and forth across the surface of the moon.

Title: Re: It shouldn't be that hard to settle whether the earth is round.
Post by: Boots on August 29, 2016, 02:06:28 AM

Quote from: Boots on August 22, 2016, 04:48:51 AM

Hello,

First, if you leave from any point on the earth, say in a plane, and continually travel in a straight line east will you not eventually end up where you started? If you did this only once from one location you would only have proved that at least the earth was disc shaped. If you went further north and/or south and did the same thing you would have proved the earth was at least cylindrical. If you did this numerous times at different latitudes and fairly consistent elevations you could soon get a pretty good idea as to whether the earth had the characteristics of a sphere by measuring your distances.

When I wrote this I did not know about the FE map. I still think it is a fairly simple test. According to the round earth model, if you flew around the world (at a consistent elevation) fairly far north, then again at the equator and again in the south, you would find that the distances flown would be greater at the equator than in the north and south. According to the flat earth model, the distance should continue to get greater as you moved further south regardless of elevation. I am going to calculate how large these differences would be at specific locations.

Title: Re: It shouldn't be that hard to settle whether the earth is round.
Post by: cel on August 29, 2016, 07:55:48 AM

Hey, people!

Refrain from re-inventing the wheel. Flat earthers have gone a long way already re this topic.

Better watch all of these first:

FLAT EARTH PROOFS 1-22
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH6p-Ab9f9Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03P-WQ12Nho
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWLOT3Tqi-Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM7vVtBIeCE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOgXN8qRUQI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzRnFmgOrf8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX61yQnylgI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kG02Wrx9D8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id1G_iouuao
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk7fC5nA8_I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk1KRLcDiLI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmIDd76HzMo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2ifQ7BNcTA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcHDIWpNz3E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYoYQAD3SCM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwITo_XsS08
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpuOmsYtSGE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIvgHNkEXas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7Yp4QJ6Fdk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXrM191t_nc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMYUrtg2ItQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phj7RUP9oyY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkojKtYyRIo

Then study, analyze and reflect all you've watched. If you have questions in your mind or haven't understood some of the info, evidences or arguments presented, freely ask and post them here...

Well, enjoy watching, friends...

Cel

Title: Re: It shouldn't be that hard to settle whether the earth is round.
Post by: Rounder on August 30, 2016, 03:13:22 AM

Quote from: cel on August 29, 2016, 07:55:48 AM

Hey, people!

Refrain from re-inventing the wheel. Flat earthers have gone a long way already re this topic.

Better watch all of these first:
*
*
(stupid stupidity removed for stupidness)
*
*
Then study, analyze and reflect all you've watched. If you have questions in your mind or haven't understood some of the info, evidences or arguments presented, freely ask and post them here...

Well, enjoy watching, friends...

Cel

I watched the first video.  That is four minutes of my life wasted.  He thinks comets and asteroids should have enough influence to disrupt he apparent flatness of water surfaces on a round earth?  H thinks the math would put a six foot pile of water in the middle of a six mile lake?  He thinks that WE think the grade changes by 8" per mile squared?  This reveals his absolute incomprehension of how the world works, so I feel no need to subject myself to any more stupidity.  And I recommend that nobody else do so either.

Title: Re: It shouldn't be that hard to settle whether the earth is round.
Post by: rabinoz on August 30, 2016, 12:53:12 PM

Quote from: cel on August 29, 2016, 07:55:48 AM

Hey, people!

Refrain from re-inventing the wheel. Flat earthers have gone a long way already re this topic.

Better watch all of these first:

I have seen most of those already and all they do is reinforce my honest belief that
most Flat Earthers believe the way they because they do not understand how the globe works!

One might say it's a case of

"I don't understand the Globe and that proves that the earth is flat!"

Well, it doesn't. All it proves is that "You don't understand the Globe and how it works!", nothing else!

Quote from: cel

FLAT EARTH PROOFS 1-22
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH6p-Ab9f9Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH6p-Ab9f9Y)
Flat Earth 2, Pilot Principles (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03P-WQ12Nho)

Planes fly in the atmosphere and the atmosphere moves with the earth so there simply is no problem.

Quote from: cel

Flat Earth Proof 3, Land Ho (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWLOT3Tqi-Q)

He simply makes statements about visibility from a certain distance without any evidence.
There are many cases of "one-off reports" of visibility for far more than the "theoretical" distance.
Some of these are simple the expected refraction in the atmosphere as the air gets less dense with altitude.
I covered this a bit in horizon meeting at eye level « Reply #1 on: May 02, 2016, 03:33:55 AM » (http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=4963.msg95901#msg95901)
Many Flat Earthers claim refraction is just an excuse, but it is simply a fact and can lead to extreme situations that we call "superior" or "inferior" mirages.
Of courses these same Flat Earthers then claim extreme refraction (the wrong way I might add) is part of what explains the sunset of a Flat Earth.

So no, the amount something is hidden is very poor evidence, though there are numerous photographs of ships, islands and buildings hidden by various amounts.

Quote from: cel

Flat Earth Proof 4, The Horizon (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM7vVtBIeCE)

Your turn!

https://youtu.be/W9ksbh88OJs
Proving the Earth is not Flat - Part 1 - The Horizon

Put simply, from sea-level the horizon should look flat, it is exactly the same distance from the observer all the way around, therefore looks the same.
Even at a moderate altitude the horizon still should look flat, as it is still exactly the same distance from the observer all the way around.
As the observer goes higher the height about the horizon does increase, but since the horizon progressively becomes further away it seems to (almost) rise to eye-level.
Yes, almost, but not quite and this "dip angle" can be readily measured.
You might look at:

https://youtu.be/2-vRzQ_GDV0
Flat Earth Debunked: The Horizon Always at Eye Level

I don't really go for his attitude, but the material is worth considering.

Quote from: cel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOgXN8qRUQI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOgXN8qRUQI)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzRnFmgOrf8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzRnFmgOrf8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX61yQnylgI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX61yQnylgI)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kG02Wrx9D8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kG02Wrx9D8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id1G_iouuao (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id1G_iouuao)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk7fC5nA8_I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk7fC5nA8_I)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk1KRLcDiLI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk1KRLcDiLI)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmIDd76HzMo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmIDd76HzMo)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2ifQ7BNcTA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2ifQ7BNcTA)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcHDIWpNz3E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcHDIWpNz3E)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYoYQAD3SCM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYoYQAD3SCM)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwITo_XsS08 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwITo_XsS08)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpuOmsYtSGE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpuOmsYtSGE)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIvgHNkEXas (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIvgHNkEXas)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7Yp4QJ6Fdk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7Yp4QJ6Fdk)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXrM191t_nc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXrM191t_nc)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMYUrtg2ItQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMYUrtg2ItQ)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phj7RUP9oyY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phj7RUP9oyY)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkojKtYyRIo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkojKtYyRIo)

Then study, analyze and reflect all you've watched. If you have questions in your mind or haven't understood some of the info, evidences or arguments presented, freely ask and post them here...

Well, enjoy watching, friends...

Cel

But, I simply do not have the time to wade through these again and again.

It seems each new member trots out similar videos as evidence, but, as I said before these prove no more than a poor understanding of physics and the way the globe "works" and it certainly does.

The only question I have is how so many people can fail to understand quite simple things about the Globe we all live on.

Title: Re: It shouldn't be that hard to settle whether the earth is round.
Post by: cel on September 01, 2016, 03:14:18 PM

WOW, A SWEEPING GENERALIZATION IN TRYING TO DEBUNK FLAT EARTH PROOFS! YOU OBVIOUSLY LACK EVIDENCE TO PROVE YOUR COUNTER ARGUMENTS AND CLAIM THAT THE EARTH IS SPHERICAL AND ROTATING ON ITS AXIS. IT APPEARS ALSO THAT YOU DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW PERSPECTIVE LAW AND VANISHING POINT PRINCIPLE WORK. ANYWAY, IT DOESN'T MATTER AS IT IS EXPECTED OF YOU AS GLOBE EARTHER, JUST LIKE THE OTHERS LIKE YOU. MOST OFTEN THAN NOT, IF CORNERED AND RUNNING OUT OF ARGUMENTS, THEY SIMPLY RESORT TO INSULTS, ANGER, FRUSTRATIONS, BAD MOUTHING, ETC. AS COVER-UP FOR INCAPACITY TO COUNTER ARGUE USING SCIENTIFIC PRINCIPLES, LOGICAL EXPLANATION, EMPIRICAL DATA, ETC.

WELL, AS YOU HAVE WATCHED MOST OF THE VIDEOS I SHARED TO YOU, I WILL SHARE TO YOU THE FOLLOWING VIDEO PROOFS THAT WOULD MOST LIKELY PUT A BIG QUESTION MARK IN YOUR HEAD. JUST WATCH THEM, AND THINK REALLY HARD. DON'T USE SOUTH POLE ARGUMENTS BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL TAINTED WITH FALLACIES, POLITICS, FRAUDS, DECEPTIONS, ETC. JUST LIKE NASA.  THE NORTH POLE FACTS AND EVIDENCE ARE  MORE GENUINE AS AGREED BY BOTH CAMPS, FLAT AND GLOBE EARTHERS ALIKE... HERE THEY ARE, MY FRIEND... DON'T CLOSE YOUR MIND, BE OPEN-MINDED, DON'T GET TRAPPED IN A DECEIVED MINDSET BY BEING TOO NARROW-MINDED... ENJOY WATCHING...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFhKpYJZeoM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPHckG3o6NQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZaPau4-lpc

MAY THE TRUTH SET YOU FREE...

 

Title: Re: It shouldn't be that hard to settle whether the earth is round.
Post by: model 29 on September 02, 2016, 03:53:44 PM

Quote from: cel on August 29, 2016, 07:55:48 AM

Hey, people!

Refrain from re-inventing the wheel. Flat earthers have gone a long way already re this topic.

Better watch all of these first:

FLAT EARTH PROOFS 1-22
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH6p-Ab9f9Y

That video alone brings up mistakes.  Of course a train doesn't go up and over a bulge of 8 inches per mile.  Any one spot along that curvature is level, so the train is level the entire distance.

Quote from: cel on September 01, 2016, 03:14:18 PM

WELL, AS YOU HAVE WATCHED MOST OF THE VIDEOS I SHARED TO YOU, I WILL SHARE TO YOU THE FOLLOWING VIDEO PROOFS THAT WOULD MOST LIKELY PUT A BIG QUESTION MARK IN YOUR HEAD.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFhKpYJZeoM

  Why are you yelling?  Anyway, MrThriveandSurvive is an idiot.  I've seen some of his other videos.  There would be no "zigzag".  The horizon is only a few miles away and the sun is 93 million miles away.

I don't trust the angles in the other video.  I'll have to check that myself.

Title: Re: It shouldn't be that hard to settle whether the earth is round.
Post by: Norr on October 12, 2016, 04:10:42 AM

If it was flat then clouds would go on at basically the same level forever.
  The fact is that the further away a cloud is from you, you will see tops recede downward. Instead of just going on and on level forever