The Flat Earth Society
Other Discussion Boards => Philosophy, Religion & Society => Topic started by: İntikam on June 04, 2016, 07:37:37 PM
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Hello.
By using the word illuminati i mean all of the Masonic structurings. I don't want to talk about the structure and method of the illuminati because everybody can reach the materials over internet about it. I want to try to tell something that shows the original purpose of the illuminati want to do with what some are doing.
Illuminati uses the control of the governments, large companies, internet, media and etc. So in a way we can think about illuminati controls everything except that people have free will.
Since a few years, illuminati trying something different from the original purpose that controlling the world. Their new purpose is "forcing God to doomsday".
God said about Jews that I will gather you all in one place before the day of Judgement day. This is actually the "Promised Land.". A lot of jews are living in Israel and want to peace, but illuminati forcing to middle east for bring other jews to come around Israel. According to their perspective this is first step for judgement day. So they are bring confusion on middle east for states shred and let there habitable for other jews. The second step will be force the Jews living over the world except Israel to collect same place, although it's not requered.
Illuminati using the terrorist organizations like isis, al qaida and fsa, for shred and make a fuss on the countries.
One of their aim is provoke to "Jesus" to down to earth, because this action will take place and one of the step will be complete for realization of the doomsday. As an example of this before a few years isis and fsa occupied the city of Malula that only city in the world that talking the Aramian that original language of Jesus. After that they raped some young nuns and cut off the head of the priests. Actually media had to do calls Europe to action for save there, but they haven't done anything. Because the aim of the illuminati was not move to Europe, oppositelly just forcing to move Jesus.
people carried out Genocide with a lie prevention of terrorism, actually will be supporting terrorism. NATO planes are taking of the aim of under the pretext of terrorist bombing, but bombing the area in front of the the terrorists are cleaning. and bombing civilians. Turkish artillery bombing the Syrian army while their saying bombing terrorists.
everyone is talking about the genocide and genocide condemned. Today in front of the world there's a genocide and the countries who condemned the genocide actually supporting it.
This is not acceptable or tolerable. No one can force the will of God. If they makes a plan, surely God has a plan.
Take care of yourselves.
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I think you're confsed.
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Would it not be irrelevant to create plans for or against an omniscient being?
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I think you're confsed.
No i'm not. Probably you don't understand the writng or maybe it's caused i cant tell what i want to say.
Would it not be irrelevant to create plans for or against an omniscient being?
Not it isn't. God keeps his word. they are trying to force things by using these words.
You are true by a perspective. as a result, he is aware of everything.
Actually illu were not triying to force God for anything. But after David Rockefeller takeover of power of illu, he did this plan himself. Because he is old and psychopath. that want to see the doomsday and especially want to see Jesus before he dead. This is my idea i'm not pushy about it.
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I think you're confsed.
No i'm not. Probably you don't understand the writng or maybe it's caused i cant tell what i want to say.
Would it not be irrelevant to create plans for or against an omniscient being?
Not it isn't. God keeps his word. they are trying to force things by using these words.
You are true by a perspective. as a result, he is aware of everything.
Actually illu were not triying to force God for anything. But after David Rockefeller takeover of power of illu, he did this plan himself. Because he is old and psychopath. that want to see the doomsday and especially want to see Jesus before he dead. This is my idea i'm not pushy about it.
An omniscient being would be aware of the entirety of possibilities before uttering any words at all. You can't force or trick an omniscient being into doing something that it wasn't fully aware it would be doing upon giving any sort of promise to be fulfilled.
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I think you're confsed.
No i'm not. Probably you don't understand the writng or maybe it's caused i cant tell what i want to say.
Would it not be irrelevant to create plans for or against an omniscient being?
Not it isn't. God keeps his word. they are trying to force things by using these words.
You are true by a perspective. as a result, he is aware of everything.
Actually illu were not triying to force God for anything. But after David Rockefeller takeover of power of illu, he did this plan himself. Because he is old and psychopath. that want to see the doomsday and especially want to see Jesus before he dead. This is my idea i'm not pushy about it.
An omniscient being would be aware of the entirety of possibilities before uttering any words at all. You can't force or trick an omniscient being into doing something that it wasn't fully aware it would be doing upon giving any sort of promise to be fulfilled.
Are you especially many words using? :)
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I'm usually using both of two site for translation and re-translate it then re-translate it. Thereby i do a control.
Now i'm using the control to show you Rushy what wrote and why i didn't understand.
This is what Rushy said:
An omniscient being would be aware of the entirety of possibilities before uttering any words at all. You can't force or trick an omniscient being into doing something that it wasn't fully aware it would be doing upon giving any sort of promise to be fulfilled.
This is yandex translate
1st step:
Bir alim hiç bir kelime söylediği önce olasılıkları tamamen farkında olacak. Hiçbir güç veya tatmin için söz herhangi bir sıralama verilmesi durumunda ne olacağını tam olarak farkında olmadığı bir şeyi yapması için bir mahkeme önünde kandıramazsınız.
Control: second step:
A scholar will be fully aware of the possibilities before you ever said a word. No power or giving any sort of satisfaction promise he wasn't fully aware of what would happen in the case of a court fool in front of you to do something you can't.
Is the second translation looks like the original a bit? No. It is so so different.
So i need someone translate it.
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Maybe.
God is all knowing. God could not be tricked as he would know in advance what people would do.
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Maybe.
God is all knowing. God could not be tricked as he would know in advance what people would do.
this is not a to be deceived. God makes a promise. and that is binding.
For example promised land is a promise. There is some other promises on book.
The point I want to draw attention, the devil is to fall into the same error. The error caused by depending on God's old words, and don't understand what is changed.
I want to tell the story of devil by shortly. Then you understand what i mean.
God said devil that "thou shall not obedience somebody except me". this is an order definitely and covers everyone and everything.
But after Adam, the order changed to: "thou shall obey him.". What is changed? Is God changed his mind? We don't think. So how is it possible?
Here's the important point:
Actually when God says "thou shall not obey somebody except me" includes everything that then exist. It includes all of the angels, all of the animate and the inanimate creatures. But when a new species is created, the terms may vary. Because the new species was not exist when the rule occurs. So, after Adam created, the rules are changed. the new rules of self-Satan-is expected to understand and implement. but it can't do that. Actually this is not a big problem but the the devil insisted to decision. thought maybe it as a test. we don't know it.
we come to this day;
illuminati trying to forcing God bring to the doomsday. But they are not saying this clearly. If you ask them this matter sincerely, they ask you like this "we are not forcing to God, we are just provide the conditions occurred which requered. Actually this is a forcing but they don't accept that. They are depending on some words said by God. But in the previous example we saw that it is true to depend on the words said by God, but not completely. Because they have a risk to change the actual meaning. So illuminati taking a great risk that can loose everything on behalf of everyone.
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In that case the illuminati would be correct, they're not forcing anything, because it is impossible to force an all powerful being to do something it wasn't already fully prepared to do.
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In that case the illuminati would be correct, they're not forcing anything, because it is impossible to force an all powerful being to do something it wasn't already fully prepared to do.
In (1) that (2) case (3) the (4) illuminati(5) would(6) be(7) correct (.8.), they're(9)(10) not(11) forcing(12) anything(13), because(14) it(15) is(16) impossible(17) to(18) force(19) an(20) all(21) powerful(22) being(23) to(24) do(25) something(26) it(27) wasn't(28)(29) already(30) fully(31) prepared(32) to(33) do(34).
conclusion: not understood.
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God wants illuminati to succeed.
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In fact, It is Gods plan, as he knows all.
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God wants illuminati to succeed.
In fact, It is Gods plan, as he knows all.
Do you know Devil said the same think: "You planned and ... (Means traps)"
Then we can hold responsible to every evilness to God. "I didn't kill him, God wanted; I didn't rape her, God wanted i do,..." etc. These are invalid excuses.
God creates something and usually recognizes the right of free will. Human is one of them.
God don't plans evilness, but knows it. Evil men plans evilness and because of this, holds God responsible. Devil did same mistake: "Goods from me, evils planed by God". This is not true, God giving the free will for everyone. If we do same mistake with Devil, what is our difference?
Look God said that i bring you all in same place before the doomsday. But it is not normal way bring the Jews to same place by using terrorism, killing people, other methods that by force. No, God don't want something like this. This is illuminati want, not God. God will not forgive it. because this is the same mistake that the devil did it.
Look what they do: "killing". What god said clearly? "thou shall not kill". This is clearly. But they are saying that we create the conditions that God wanted. This is not true because God saying clearly "don't kill". So it is not important which conditions they are creating. They are loosing the game on start point!
this will end the game.
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If God is all knowing (The Alpha & the Omega), then when the words were spoken he knew the outcome. Therefore, the plan is his.
If when he spoke the words the outcome was uncertain and down to free will, he is not all knowing.
Which?
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"I will gather you all in one place before the day of Judgement day."
Does not translate to:
"The second you are all gathered in one place, Judgement Day begins"
Even assuming that it was true and all the Jews were gathered in Israel, God could wait 100,000 years before Judgement Day and the prophecy would still be true. That's the joy of nice, vague prophecies.
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If God is all knowing (The Alpha & the Omega), then when the words were spoken he knew the outcome. Therefore, the plan is his.
If when he spoke the words the outcome was uncertain and down to free will, he is not all knowing.
Which?
To know everything doesn't change the result. his own words prevents some kind of intervention. this is not an inability. a principled stance.
"I will gather you all in one place before the day of Judgement day."
Does not translate to:
"The second you are all gathered in one place, Judgement Day begins"
Even assuming that it was true and all the Jews were gathered in Israel, God could wait 100,000 years before Judgement Day and the prophecy would still be true. That's the joy of nice, vague prophecies.
But before all of the Jews gathered in one place, Judgement Day don't begin. The other may not be important, but the vice versa is important.
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If god really is all powerful and all knowing then all evilness actually is a result of his own actions. If god created the universe, god also created the evilness within it.
Imagine a scenario in which I sell a nuclear bomb to a terrorist who then uses it to destroy an entire city. Would you hold me responsible as well?
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we must not question about why god do what. This is a mistake. Because we don't understand why is why with our limited capacity of perception. Devil did same mistake. human should learn from mistakes. If should not, what is the difference of a human or a devil?
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The Illuminati are too powerful to want the world to end.
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If god really is all powerful and all knowing then all evilness actually is a result of his own actions. If god created the universe, god also created the evilness within it.
Imagine a scenario in which I sell a nuclear bomb to a terrorist who then uses it to destroy an entire city. Would you hold me responsible as well?
Actually he made us with free will and in turn turned evil.
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If god really is all powerful and all knowing then all evilness actually is a result of his own actions. If god created the universe, god also created the evilness within it.
Imagine a scenario in which I sell a nuclear bomb to a terrorist who then uses it to destroy an entire city. Would you hold me responsible as well?
Actually he made us with free will and in turn turned evil.
No such thing as free will if an all-powerful, all-knowing and all-good being exists.
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If god really is all powerful and all knowing then all evilness actually is a result of his own actions. If god created the universe, god also created the evilness within it.
Imagine a scenario in which I sell a nuclear bomb to a terrorist who then uses it to destroy an entire city. Would you hold me responsible as well?
Actually he made us with free will and in turn turned evil.
No such thing as free will if an all-powerful, all-knowing and all-good being exists.
Yes there is. I can know you're going to post without controlling you to do it. I can know if I gave you the choice between your favorite food and you least favorite you'll choose your favorite but still don't control your outcome.
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If god really is all powerful and all knowing then all evilness actually is a result of his own actions. If god created the universe, god also created the evilness within it.
Imagine a scenario in which I sell a nuclear bomb to a terrorist who then uses it to destroy an entire city. Would you hold me responsible as well?
Actually he made us with free will and in turn turned evil.
No such thing as free will if an all-powerful, all-knowing and all-good being exists.
Yes there is. I can know you're going to post without controlling you to do it. I can know if I gave you the choice between your favorite food and you least favorite you'll choose your favorite but still don't control your outcome.
Creating a being in which you've already predetermined its actions is not free will. If God exists, human beings are no different than robots. You were made the way you were by a being who already knew what you would do and made you in the exact way that would result in you doing a specific action.
Predestination and free will are philosophical and theological paradoxes. Saying "no they aren't" is not only ridiculously incorrect, but going against thousands of years of philosophical theories. If you want to prove the free will paradox wrong, you're going to need a lot more than what you're giving me.
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If god really is all powerful and all knowing then all evilness actually is a result of his own actions. If god created the universe, god also created the evilness within it.
Imagine a scenario in which I sell a nuclear bomb to a terrorist who then uses it to destroy an entire city. Would you hold me responsible as well?
Actually he made us with free will and in turn turned evil.
No such thing as free will if an all-powerful, all-knowing and all-good being exists.
Yes there is. I can know you're going to post without controlling you to do it. I can know if I gave you the choice between your favorite food and you least favorite you'll choose your favorite but still don't control your outcome.
Creating a being in which you've already predetermined its actions is not free will. If God exists, human beings are no different than robots. You were made the way you were by a being who already knew what you would do and made you in the exact way that would result in you doing a specific action.
Your first sentence is your first mistake. He doesn't predestined us, he knows what were going to do. Again this harkened to my analogy. I knew you was going to respond, I didn't forced you to respond.
Predestination and free will are philosophical and theological paradoxes. Saying "no they aren't" is not only ridiculously incorrect, but going against thousands of years of philosophical theories. If you want to prove the free will paradox wrong, you're going to need a lot more than what you're giving me.
You're assuming that God predestines people.
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"God has a plan for everyone."
Sounds like predestin to me
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"God has a plan for everyone."
Sounds like predestin to me
God has a will for everyone.
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Your first sentence is your first mistake. He doesn't predestined us, he knows what were going to do. Again this harkened to my analogy. I knew you was going to respond, I didn't forced you to respond.
You can't say that god created people and knows what they will do while simultaneously saying predestination doesn't exist. You described predestination to me and said "yeah, but it's not predestination, though." If an outcome is known, then it is predefined. If someone already knows what you're going to do then you can't choose to do something else.
An all-powerful, all-knowing god creating humanity is no different than a human creating a robot. The robot has a predefined set of activities it will perform the moment it comes into being and it is not possible for it to perform those activities outside its given parameters. It doesn't matter if the robot has just enough self-awareness to believe it is doing those given tasks of its own volition. Does a Roomba (a vaccuum robot), for example, choose to stop at walls? Does it think "I don't want to run into this!" and stop? Could it run into a wall even if it desired to do so? The illusion of free will exists if we don't know the Roomba is a robot. If I gave it to someone who is exceptionally gullible and told them it has self-awareness, they might think it really does and makes its own decisions. However, given the knowledge that it has a creator who knew exactly what it would do, we know the Roomba really had no free will at all.
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Your first sentence is your first mistake. He doesn't predestined us, he knows what were going to do. Again this harkened to my analogy. I knew you was going to respond, I didn't forced you to respond.
You can't say that god created people and knows what they will do while simultaneously saying predestination doesn't exist. You described predestination to me and said "yeah, but it's not predestination, though." If an outcome is known, then it is predefined. If someone already knows what you're going to do then you can't choose to do something else.
But you responded when I knew you would, yet you had the choice not to.
An all-powerful, all-knowing god creating humanity is no different than a human creating a robot. The robot has a predefined set of activities it will perform the moment it comes into being and it is not possible for it to perform those activities outside its given parameters. It doesn't matter if the robot has just enough self-awareness to believe it is doing those given tasks of its own volition. Does a Roomba (a vaccuum robot), for example, choose to stop at walls? Does it think "I don't want to run into this!" and stop? Could it run into a wall even if it desired to do so? The illusion of free will exists if we don't know the Roomba is a robot. If I gave it to someone who is exceptionally gullible and told them it has self-awareness, they might think it really does and makes its own decisions. However, given the knowledge that it has a creator who knew exactly what it would do, we know the Roomba really had no free will at all.
But we are not made to be robots.
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But you responded when I knew you would, yet you had the choice not to.
You're conflating the subjective ability to predict likely events with the ability to objectively know the future. For example, I too can say it is likely that you will reply to this, but to say "I know you will reply to this" is not only outrageously pretentious, but completely incorrect.
A god-like being would be able to say something on the order of "you will eat a hamburger for lunch tomorrow" and nothing in the universe would be able to change that objective fact. You'd eat a hamburger for lunch. You would, of course, believe you chose to eat it. You wouldn't get to choose to not eat a hamburger for lunch.
But we are not made to be robots.
Indeed.
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But you responded when I knew you would, yet you had the choice not to.
You're conflating the subjective ability to predict likely events with the ability to objectively know the future. For example, I too can say it is likely that you will reply to this, but to say "I know you will reply to this" is not only outrageously pretentious, but completely incorrect.
Me predicting that you were going to reply is a small sample of God's omniscience. Not only did he knew that you was going to reply but he also knew exactly what you're going to say. Yet at the same time he doesn't control what you say. Just because you know ahead of time what is going to happen doesn't mean he controls you. For example I know that if you walk off Grand Canyon you'll fall yet I don't control you or gravity.
A god-like being would be able to say something on the order of "you will eat a hamburger for lunch tomorrow" and nothing in the universe would be able to change that objective fact. You'd eat a hamburger for lunch. You would, of course, believe you chose to eat it. You wouldn't get to choose to not eat a hamburger for lunch.
How it works is he knows your choice, not that he destined your choice.
But we are not made to be robots.
Indeed.
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If God knows all then everything he did when creating the universe (and humans) was deliberate.
We have no free will, just the illusion of free will.
God made you post your reply by every action he took when creating humanity and if you believe God makes people, then you too.
Like God makes a woman sterile so she has to suffer so her husband leaves her so she finds another guy that works out to God's plan.
Again, the illusion of free will: we think we make the choices, but God made sure we'd do what he wanted since the dawn of time.
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Me predicting that you were going to reply is a small sample of God's omniscience. Not only did he knew that you was going to reply but he also knew exactly what you're going to say. Yet at the same time he doesn't control what you say. Just because you know ahead of time what is going to happen doesn't mean he controls you. For example I know that if you walk off Grand Canyon you'll fall yet I don't control you or gravity.
A god-like being would be able to say something on the order of "you will eat a hamburger for lunch tomorrow" and nothing in the universe would be able to change that objective fact. You'd eat a hamburger for lunch. You would, of course, believe you chose to eat it. You wouldn't get to choose to not eat a hamburger for lunch.
How it works is he knows your choice, not that he destined your choice.
If an objective future exists, then you don't get to make a choice because there are no choices to make. Your future already exists.
If someone truly knows what you're going to do with your life, then your life has effectively already happened. Back to the hamburger analogy: you don't get to not eat a hamburger. The future is already set in stone by an omnipotent creator. Free will doesn't functionally exist because the ability to choose doesn't exist. Your life would essentially be no different from a movie. A universe where the characters make the same decisions over and over again, even if given the illusion of choice. In movies, characters contemplate their choices, but they always choose the same thing because the choice is an illusion. Their fate was decided the moment the film was created.
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Maybe this will explain it better.
https://carm.org/if-god-knows-our-free-will-choices-do-we-still-have-free-will
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Maybe this will explain it better.
https://carm.org/if-god-knows-our-free-will-choices-do-we-still-have-free-will
The problem with that article is it speaks solely about the knowledge aspect. If God was simply a being who knows everything, they would be correct, knowledge doesn't imply a lack of free will. The free will paradox arises when you admit a belief that God created everything. The universe was made specifically by a being with knowledge of what would happen in that universe. This creates an illusion of free will and leads back to my hamburger/movie analogy.
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I really believe God but this avatar video is confusing.
(https://i.imgsafe.org/11e8c08211.gif)
There always will be a possibility about God is a program like this and this live is a nonsence except a strong dream.
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Maybe this will explain it better.
https://carm.org/if-god-knows-our-free-will-choices-do-we-still-have-free-will
The problem with that article is it speaks solely about the knowledge aspect. If God was simply a being who knows everything, they would be correct, knowledge doesn't imply a lack of free will. The free will paradox arises when you admit a belief that God created everything. The universe was made specifically by a being with knowledge of what would happen in that universe. This creates an illusion of free will and leads back to my hamburger/movie analogy.
Your mom and dad created you and know you pretty well to
Know your likes and dislikes but they don't control you.
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Maybe this will explain it better.
https://carm.org/if-god-knows-our-free-will-choices-do-we-still-have-free-will
The problem with that article is it speaks solely about the knowledge aspect. If God was simply a being who knows everything, they would be correct, knowledge doesn't imply a lack of free will. The free will paradox arises when you admit a belief that God created everything. The universe was made specifically by a being with knowledge of what would happen in that universe. This creates an illusion of free will and leads back to my hamburger/movie analogy.
Your mom and dad created you and know you pretty well to
Know your likes and dislikes but they don't control you.
Yes but their knowledge comes from experience and it isn't even perfectly accurate nor accounts for things kept hidden.
Also, they created him via random chance. They had no genetic control.
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Maybe this will explain it better.
https://carm.org/if-god-knows-our-free-will-choices-do-we-still-have-free-will
The problem with that article is it speaks solely about the knowledge aspect. If God was simply a being who knows everything, they would be correct, knowledge doesn't imply a lack of free will. The free will paradox arises when you admit a belief that God created everything. The universe was made specifically by a being with knowledge of what would happen in that universe. This creates an illusion of free will and leads back to my hamburger/movie analogy.
Your mom and dad created you and know you pretty well to
Know your likes and dislikes but they don't control you.
God knows more than your likes and dislikes: he knows what is in your deepest thoughts, what is in your heart, he knows what you are going to do, and he knows every event leading up to and proceeding from that action in every detail conceivable and inconceivable. This analogy of yours is not even close to a good comparison.
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And.. if your parents then told you that you had to worship them, that you were full of sin, turned one of your siblings to salt for looking over their shoulder, made you believe you had to sacrifice one of your children to prove your obedience, I'm guessing they wouldn't be deemed suitable parents.
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Your mom and dad created you and know you pretty well to
Know your likes and dislikes but they don't control you.
My parents aren't omnipotent or omniscient. They certainly didn't conceive me with the knowledge that I would be precisely where I am today. If they did have that knowledge, then I would be impressed and mildly disturbed.
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Maybe this will explain it better.
https://carm.org/if-god-knows-our-free-will-choices-do-we-still-have-free-will
The problem with that article is it speaks solely about the knowledge aspect. If God was simply a being who knows everything, they would be correct, knowledge doesn't imply a lack of free will. The free will paradox arises when you admit a belief that God created everything. The universe was made specifically by a being with knowledge of what would happen in that universe. This creates an illusion of free will and leads back to my hamburger/movie analogy.
Your mom and dad created you and know you pretty well to
Know your likes and dislikes but they don't control you.
Yes but their knowledge comes from experience and it isn't even perfectly accurate nor accounts for things kept hidden.
Also, they created him via random chance. They had no genetic control.
So what your parents know by experience God knows by omniscience.
Maybe this will explain it better.
https://carm.org/if-god-knows-our-free-will-choices-do-we-still-have-free-will
The problem with that article is it speaks solely about the knowledge aspect. If God was simply a being who knows everything, they would be correct, knowledge doesn't imply a lack of free will. The free will paradox arises when you admit a belief that God created everything. The universe was made specifically by a being with knowledge of what would happen in that universe. This creates an illusion of free will and leads back to my hamburger/movie analogy.
Your mom and dad created you and know you pretty well to
Know your likes and dislikes but they don't control you.
God knows more than your likes and dislikes: he knows what is in your deepest thoughts, what is in your heart, he knows what you are going to do, and he knows every event leading up to and proceeding from that action in every detail conceivable and inconceivable. This analogy of yours is not even close to a good comparison.
What was supposed to do was make you expand the analogy to God knowing your deepest thoughts.
And.. if your parents then told you that you had to worship them, that you were full of sin, turned one of your siblings to salt for looking over their shoulder, made you believe you had to sacrifice one of your children to prove your obedience, I'm guessing they wouldn't be deemed suitable parents.
Even if he was cruel and he exists what are you going to do about it?
Your mom and dad created you and know you pretty well to
Know your likes and dislikes but they don't control you.
My parents aren't omnipotent or omniscient. They certainly didn't conceive me with the knowledge that I would be precisely where I am today. If they did have that knowledge, then I would be impressed and mildly disturbed.
No they aren't, but what knowledge they do have is a small sample of God's knowledge.
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No they aren't, but what knowledge they do have is a small sample of God's knowledge.
I don't see the relevance to my point. We're talking about an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-good being that created an objective universe that contains objective knowledge. In that universe, free will doesn't exist because choice doesn't exist. In an objectively known universe, the choice between A and B is entirely abstract because only one choice actually exists (the choice that is known to occur). Back to the movie analogy, imagine the scene in Titanic, when they're discussing the course for the ship and the captain chooses to go full speed ahead to save time (inevitably resulting in the Titanic sinking). Can that captain ever choose not to do that? Is it free will he expresses in the movie? The answer to these questions is of course "no." The film is recorded onto a piece of media that objectively exists in a permanent state. There is no film that instead depicts the captain choosing the slower course and avoiding the iceberg. This is an objective universe as seen by a god-like being. To God, we would be nothing more than a film.
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No they aren't, but what knowledge they do have is a small sample of God's knowledge.
I don't see the relevance to my point. We're talking about an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-good being that created an objective universe that contains objective knowledge. In that universe, free will doesn't exist because choice doesn't exist. In an objectively known universe, the choice between A and B is entirely abstract because only one choice actually exists (the choice that is known to occur). Back to the movie analogy, imagine the scene in Titanic, when they're discussing the course for the ship and the captain chooses to go full speed ahead to save time (inevitably resulting in the Titanic sinking). Can that captain ever choose not to do that? Is it free will he expresses in the movie? The answer to these questions is of course "no." The film is recorded onto a piece of media that objectively exists in a permanent state. There is no film that instead depicts the captain choosing the slower course and avoiding the iceberg. This is an objective universe as seen by a god-like being. To God, we would be nothing more than a film.
The only thing about the movie analogy is true is the fact that if I saw it before I know what is about the happen. I don't control it.
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If Free Will exists then you can change God's plan for you or choose not to follow it, yes?
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If Free Will exists then you can change God's plan for you or choose not to follow it, yes?
That's why there's two Plans. There's God's perfect will and there's the plan for if you mess up.
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That’s where this becomes idiotic.
God makes everything to his design, but knows his design is flawed because that’s how he designed it, then his figurines get the blame for doing what he knew they would do when he designed them in the first instant.
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If Free Will exists then you can change God's plan for you or choose not to follow it, yes?
That's why there's two Plans. There's God's perfect will and there's the plan for if you mess up.
Only 2?
So God knows exactly how you'll change things and exactly how that will change the plans?
So what if God's plan for you requires me to be alive but then I die because someone changed God's plan for him and drove drunk. He needs to change his plan for you which will change the plan for everyone you interact with.
God needs an infinite amount of plans.
But you said he knows everything we'll do so why would God need two plans?
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That’s where this becomes idiotic.
God makes everything to his design, but knows his design is flawed because that’s how he designed it, then his figurines get the blame for doing what he knew they would do when he designed them in the first instant.
According to you everthing is idiotic except what you think.
You effort to determined some psychological problems on who don't thinking like you; but you don't a little effort to determined some psychological problems who are answering instead of anybody else with unscrupulous and unprincipled manner. there are a lot of them here. But you don't see anybody of them. On the other hand they are attacking around like cannibals. But it does not have your attention.
Those who don't think like you attracts your attention immediately: "idiotic, ignorantly, pathologically, primitively..." etc. But who believe something like you, they are not cannibals but they are clever, cultured, knowledgeable, principled, great people.
Are really they?
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That’s where this becomes idiotic.
God makes everything to his design, but knows his design is flawed because that’s how he designed it, then his figurines get the blame for doing what he knew they would do when he designed them in the first instant.
According to you everthing is idiotic except what you think.
You effort to determined some psychological problems on who don't thinking like you; but you don't a little effort to determined some psychological problems who are answering instead of anybody else with unscrupulous and unprincipled manner. there are a lot of them here. But you don't see anybody of them. On the other hand they are attacking around like cannibals. But it does not have your attention.
Those who don't think like you attracts your attention immediately: "idiotic, ignorantly, pathologically, primitively..." etc. But who believe something like you, they are not cannibals but they are clever, cultured, knowledgeable, principled, great people.
Are really they?
I will try to do this in a basic way for translation.
1.There is a paradox (contradiction) in what you write here (the OP). See coloured words above.
This contradiction is not answered by free will.
Free will cannot exist with an omnipotent (All powerful) God in control.
2. Internet Forums are chaotic (messy). I have no problem with this.
3. Those who I tend to agree with, I do not argue with.
True, the same as you. Notice all on your ignore list, you call cannibals, they disagree with you.
You accuse me of crimes you are guilty of.
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I will try to do this in a basic way for translation.
1.There is a paradox (contradiction) in what you write here (the OP). See coloured words above.
This contradiction is not answered by free will.
Free will cannot exist with an omnipotent (All powerful) God in control.
2. Internet Forums are chaotic (messy). I have no problem with this.
3. Those who I tend to agree with, I do not argue with.
True, the same as you. Notice all on your ignore list, you call cannibals, they disagree with you.
You accuse me of crimes you are guilty of.
Actually you accuse me of crimes you are guilty of. Because you are talking about yourself to try to be acting scientific. Now you are doing psychological studies. Are you psychiatrist? I think you are not. So how can you study about this work. If you want act as scientific, you only can call a psychiatrist and let them to say which ones here have which psychological problems by he working on it.
you're being totally unscientific but blame me with acting not free will caused by God's effect.
I think you need to look yourself before blame me or anyone for something.
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Inti’ the language barrier is too much for us to fully understand each other.
I wasn’t trying to psychologically evaluate anyone. Although you seem to feel I should be doing with Rabinoz and the rest of the banned brigade. Who I have no problem.
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Inti’ the language barrier is too much for us to fully understand each other.
I wasn’t trying to psychologically evaluate anyone. Although you seem to feel I should be doing with Rabinoz and the rest of the banned brigade. Who I have no problem.
I think i understand you. i hope i do. Please lets continue from where we stop, if you accept too.
Yes God knows where is a mistake . The problem you and most of people don't want to understand is if God is perfect how is a system is not perfect that created by God.
The answer is God don't want to create someting perfect except himself. Probably another perfect something decreases the effect of "God' be perfect". We don't know his reason but most of possibility like this. Because God usually says that only himself is perfect. This means everything except God can't be perfect because there is no another alternative. I didn't read a word on the books like "i created this object as perfect". Maybe i'm wrong, if i, please show me.
So this is not a mistake, the mistakes are the result of God's free will.
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Accepted.
I also accept the idea that god may design an imperfect world as some sort of test (I said as much in the coloured section before).
What I don't get in your OP, is how the Masons/Illuminati (who are smart enough to rule the world of men apparently) could think they could force the rapture/doomsday on a god that knows all.
Hope this translates.
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Accepted.
I also accept the idea that god may design an imperfect world as some sort of test (I said as much in the coloured section before).
What I don't get in your OP, is how the Masons/Illuminati (who are smart enough to rule the world of men apparently) could think they could force the rapture/doomsday on a god that knows all.
Hope this translates.
Translate was not perfect but your question clear for understand.
Everybody accept that God has free will for do everything. So nobody can force to God for explain for his did.
in spite of this, something forcing God to do something. The answer is "the power of pray". God made certain promises he has. these are binding.is easy for God to predict the future. but this is not certain. Because God can change his choice at the future and it is difficult to guess for God. Because God has free will and can change his option at next a day. God know this stuation. So God surely don't like to predict the future. If his own initiative is certain, he can easily estimated the future. But if the situation is complicated, then God do not state opinions.
I want to give an example again about Adam. When Adam made a big mistake, was expelled from heaven. After that, he did pray and is forgiven again. When God fired him, surely God was know that he will pray and God will forgive him. But this is just a high possibilty, not certain. There is a low probability that God will not forgive Adam, because God has free will.
Lets come about illuminati/ masons. These bad guys are most of the grandsuns of the old prophets and strongly probably they know some secret prays. These prays acts God's free will and change the future constantly.
Yes God can predict everything but can't forecast what will do himself with his free will that has the possibility of choose the way from infinite. To working on infinite is everytime hard, even for God.
So;
illu is know this situation that God can change his choise. For those they are forcing to God to change his free will because it is possible.
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As broken up as it was, that is probably the best argument for free will in an omniscet God's world:
God changes his mind thus he can't have any long lasting plans.
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i think ignored someone wrote something.
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Is illuminati want "forcing God bring to doomsday" by pouring more blood ?
Yes.
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Is illuminati want "forcing God bring to doomsday" by pouring more blood ?
Yes.
Haha! :)
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Is illuminati want "forcing God bring to doomsday" by pouring more blood ?
Yes.
:) Thank you.