The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Theory => Topic started by: Mouser on May 25, 2016, 03:09:27 AM

Title: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: Mouser on May 25, 2016, 03:09:27 AM
Riddle me this...

If the Earth is flat, then why do ships appear to rise out of the ocean? I've always thought this was due to the curvature of the earth.

This picture here (https://i.ytimg.com/vi/2LWIGKnsnXY/hqdefault.jpg) shows how flat Earthers believe the sun works. According to this, the sun is shining over Western North America and Eastern Asia. Why can't Africa see the sun?

Why do constellations and planets move around in the sky? if the earth was flat, we should be able to see the same constellations all the time; however, this is not the case. for example, around fall, you can see the constellation "Orion" in Eastern North America. As spring and summer draw nearer, Orion slowly disappears over the horizon. Please explain.

BONUS
If you've ever looked through a telescope at other planets, the moon, or the sun, you'll notice they are all spherical. Why is earth the only exception?

Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: UnionsOfSolarSystemPlanet on May 26, 2016, 04:02:34 PM
Not a flat Earther, but their usual respond is to look up at the wiki or:

If the Earth is flat, then why do ships appear to rise out of the ocean? I've always thought this was due to the curvature of the earth.
Because we can't see forever by the law of perspective + lots of air blocking the ship.

This picture here (https://i.ytimg.com/vi/2LWIGKnsnXY/hqdefault.jpg) shows how flat Earthers believe the sun works. According to this, the sun is shining over Western North America and Eastern Asia. Why can't Africa see the sun?
Just like above, Sun is blocked by air, something about bendy light and that light can't travel forever because they will disappear.

Why do constellations and planets move around in the sky? if the earth was flat, we should be able to see the same constellations all the time; however, this is not the case. for example, around fall, you can see the constellation "Orion" in Eastern North America. As spring and summer draw nearer, Orion slowly disappears over the horizon. Please explain.
Because they rotate at different rate than the Sun

BONUS
If you've ever looked through a telescope at other planets, the moon, or the sun, you'll notice they are all spherical. Why is earth the only exception?
Because Earth is not a planet, just like humans and cats have legs, but snakes don't.
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: geckothegeek on May 31, 2016, 04:58:20 PM
IF.......You can't see the sun "because of the thickness of the 'atmoplane'" why can you  see the stars after the sun sets ?
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: Tom Bishop on June 01, 2016, 12:39:07 AM
IF.......You can't see the sun "because of the thickness of the 'atmoplane'" why can you  see the stars after the sun sets ?

Because the stars are over you and the sun is not.
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: rabinoz on June 01, 2016, 12:21:50 PM
IF.......You can't see the sun "because of the thickness of the 'atmoplane'" why can you  see the stars after the sun sets ?

Because the stars are over you and the sun is not.
But soon after sunset we often see the moon, a planet (commonly Venus or Jupiter) or even a bright star appear in the same location that the sun was in as it was setting.
So as was asked before, "if you can't see the sun 'because of the thickness of the atmoplane'  why can you  see the stars after the sun sets?"

If this "the thickness of the atmoplane" can block the intense light of the sun, how can we see the far dimmer moon, planets and stars in exactly the same location previously occupied by the sun.
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: Round fact on June 01, 2016, 02:51:21 PM
IF.......You can't see the sun "because of the thickness of the 'atmoplane'" why can you  see the stars after the sun sets ?

Because the stars are over you and the sun is not.

But the sun is a -27 magnitude star, generating 6.89 x 1033 lumens. That much light would flood a flat earth in all directions 24/7. A fact, which have posted a dozen times and a fact which FE has ignored to date.
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: Tom Bishop on June 01, 2016, 03:13:37 PM
IF.......You can't see the sun "because of the thickness of the 'atmoplane'" why can you  see the stars after the sun sets ?

Because the stars are over you and the sun is not.
But soon after sunset we often see the moon, a planet (commonly Venus or Jupiter) or even a bright star appear in the same location that the sun was in as it was setting.
So as was asked before, "if you can't see the sun 'because of the thickness of the atmoplane'  why can you  see the stars after the sun sets?"

If this "the thickness of the atmoplane" can block the intense light of the sun, how can we see the far dimmer moon, planets and stars in exactly the same location previously occupied by the sun.

Because they are bright enough to be seen. Next question.
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on June 01, 2016, 03:40:25 PM
IF.......You can't see the sun "because of the thickness of the 'atmoplane'" why can you  see the stars after the sun sets ?

Because the stars are over you and the sun is not.
But soon after sunset we often see the moon, a planet (commonly Venus or Jupiter) or even a bright star appear in the same location that the sun was in as it was setting.
So as was asked before, "if you can't see the sun 'because of the thickness of the atmoplane'  why can you  see the stars after the sun sets?"

If this "the thickness of the atmoplane" can block the intense light of the sun, how can we see the far dimmer moon, planets and stars in exactly the same location previously occupied by the sun.

Because they are bright enough to be seen. Next question.

Translation: It is like it is because I say it is.
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: UnionsOfSolarSystemPlanet on June 01, 2016, 03:51:56 PM
IF.......You can't see the sun "because of the thickness of the 'atmoplane'" why can you  see the stars after the sun sets ?

Because the stars are over you and the sun is not.
But soon after sunset we often see the moon, a planet (commonly Venus or Jupiter) or even a bright star appear in the same location that the sun was in as it was setting.
So as was asked before, "if you can't see the sun 'because of the thickness of the atmoplane'  why can you  see the stars after the sun sets?"

If this "the thickness of the atmoplane" can block the intense light of the sun, how can we see the far dimmer moon, planets and stars in exactly the same location previously occupied by the sun.

Because they are bright enough to be seen. Next question.
Are you hacked, drunk or something? Your answer makes less sense than an average flat Earther lately.
How could we not see the Sun which is extremely brighter than the stars and the Moon?
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: Tom Bishop on June 01, 2016, 04:21:30 PM
Are you hacked, drunk or something? Your answer makes less sense than an average flat Earther lately.
How could we not see the Sun which is extremely brighter than the stars and the Moon?

At night the far away sun is behind a wall of atmosphere built up at the horizon line and the stars and moon are more over us and not behind as much atmosphere.
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: geckothegeek on June 01, 2016, 06:33:00 PM
My problem with Tom  Bishop and other so-called flat earth believers is that the whole flat earth  is nothing but a fantasy  becsuse I know how things are really.

But from what I have read from Tom Bishop ......Are the stars closer than the sun ? LOL

Notice to newcomers to this website. If you  can make any sense of this website you're a better man than I am, Gunga Din !

Welcome to FES for entertainment . LOL.

Note to Tom Bishop:
Don't you mean "atmoplane" instead of "atmosphere.".?LOL




Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: Round fact on June 01, 2016, 06:46:50 PM
If I got paid for every time a FE ignored my question; Post #5 on this thread, I'd be rich.

Well, it has to be ignored, the fact presented cannot possibly fit the EFT.
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: geckothegeek on June 01, 2016, 06:49:32 PM
Are you hacked, drunk or something? Your answer makes less sense than an average flat Earther lately.
How could we not see the Sun which is extremely brighter than the stars and the Moon?

At night the far away sun is behind a wall of atmosphere built up at the horizon line and the stars and moon are more over us and not behind as much atmosphere.

What about those Titanic survivors on lifeboats at sea level who reported seeing stars rising and setting on the horizon ?
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: geckothegeek on June 01, 2016, 06:56:26 PM
You sometimes wonder if Tom Bishop if really is an RE agent to make FE look as silly as possible ? LOL
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: Tom Bishop on June 01, 2016, 07:32:51 PM
Are you hacked, drunk or something? Your answer makes less sense than an average flat Earther lately.
How could we not see the Sun which is extremely brighter than the stars and the Moon?

At night the far away sun is behind a wall of atmosphere built up at the horizon line and the stars and moon are more over us and not behind as much atmosphere.

What about those Titanic survivors on lifeboats at sea level who reported seeing stars rising and setting on the horizon ?

Post-traumatic memory distortion. The stars fade out to blackness before hitting the sea level horizon.
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: andruszkow on June 01, 2016, 07:39:09 PM
Are you hacked, drunk or something? Your answer makes less sense than an average flat Earther lately.
How could we not see the Sun which is extremely brighter than the stars and the Moon?

At night the far away sun is behind a wall of atmosphere built up at the horizon line and the stars and moon are more over us and not behind as much atmosphere.

What about those Titanic survivors on lifeboats at sea level who reported seeing stars rising and setting on the horizon ?

Post-traumatic memory distortion. The stars fade out to blackness before hitting the sea level horizon.
Uh, no they don't.
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: Tom Bishop on June 01, 2016, 09:12:49 PM
Are you hacked, drunk or something? Your answer makes less sense than an average flat Earther lately.
How could we not see the Sun which is extremely brighter than the stars and the Moon?

At night the far away sun is behind a wall of atmosphere built up at the horizon line and the stars and moon are more over us and not behind as much atmosphere.

What about those Titanic survivors on lifeboats at sea level who reported seeing stars rising and setting on the horizon ?

Post-traumatic memory distortion. The stars fade out to blackness before hitting the sea level horizon.
Uh, no they don't.

(http://petapixel.com/assets/uploads/2015/03/stunning.jpg)

(http://66.media.tumblr.com/4c833b2ee7e503834fd9c8402e1a0dfa/tumblr_o79oslb9tZ1s7yqivo1_1280.jpg)

(http://www.amsmeteors.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/sky.jpg)
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: andruszkow on June 01, 2016, 09:35:07 PM
Are you hacked, drunk or something? Your answer makes less sense than an average flat Earther lately.
How could we not see the Sun which is extremely brighter than the stars and the Moon?

At night the far away sun is behind a wall of atmosphere built up at the horizon line and the stars and moon are more over us and not behind as much atmosphere.

What about those Titanic survivors on lifeboats at sea level who reported seeing stars rising and setting on the horizon ?

Post-traumatic memory distortion. The stars fade out to blackness before hitting the sea level horizon.
Uh, no they don't.

(http://petapixel.com/assets/uploads/2015/03/stunning.jpg)

(http://66.media.tumblr.com/4c833b2ee7e503834fd9c8402e1a0dfa/tumblr_o79oslb9tZ1s7yqivo1_1280.jpg)

(http://www.amsmeteors.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/sky.jpg)
That's great Tom, 3 long exposure pictures with either city lights or clouds to obscure the horizon.

You have clearly not been to sea. I don't blame you. A lot of people haven't.
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: geckothegeek on June 01, 2016, 09:45:02 PM
Are you hacked, drunk or something? Your answer makes less sense than an average flat Earther lately.
How could we not see the Sun which is extremely brighter than the stars and the Moon?

At night the far away sun is behind a wall of atmosphere built up at the horizon line and the stars and moon are more over us and not behind as much atmosphere.

What about those Titanic survivors on lifeboats at sea level who reported seeing stars rising and setting on the horizon ?

Post-traumatic memory distortion. The stars fade out to blackness before hitting the sea level horizon.

Uh.....I suppose all sailors -  military and ciivil - and trans ocean and cruise passengers have this  "Post-Traumatic memory diistortion".   
I have been to Mc Donald Observatory and Big Bend National Park and have seen the stars on the horizon so I guess it applies on land, too.
Should I see a psychiatrist ? I was in the navy and I could see things on the horizon, too.???????
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: Tom Bishop on June 01, 2016, 09:49:36 PM
How about some evidence?
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: geckothegeek on June 01, 2016, 10:04:56 PM
Are you hacked, drunk or something? Your answer makes less sense than an average flat Earther lately.
How could we not see the Sun which is extremely brighter than the stars and the Moon?

At night the far away sun is behind a wall of atmosphere built up at the horizon line and the stars and moon are more over us and not behind as much atmosphere.

What about those Titanic survivors on lifeboats at sea level who reported seeing stars rising and setting on the horizon ?

Post-traumatic memory distortion. The stars fade out to blackness before hitting the sea level horizon.
Uh, no they don't.

(http://petapixel.com/assets/uploads/2015/03/stunning.jpg)

(http://66.media.tumblr.com/4c833b2ee7e503834fd9c8402e1a0dfa/tumblr_o79oslb9tZ1s7yqivo1_1280.jpg)

(http://www.amsmeteors.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/sky.jpg)
That's great Tom, 3 long exposure pictures with either city lights or clouds to obscure the horizon.

You have clearly not been to sea. I don't blame you. A lot of people haven't.

Those stars are not fading out because of darkness......They are fading out because of the light.
That is one of the nice things about being in the  middle of the ocean, far from any city lights on the horizon.
Unless you have ever been to sea, you wouldn't realize how clear and pollution free the  atmosphere can be.
Incidentally, the horizon and the distance to the horizon is one of the  most de- bunkiest  of  flat earth fantasies.
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: Tom Bishop on June 01, 2016, 10:29:03 PM
How about some evidence?
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: geckothegeek on June 02, 2016, 12:03:58 AM
How about some evidence?

Read the subject title. Flat earthers are the ones who have to supply the evidence.?
The flat earthers are the ones who have to answer the questions with proof, not the round earthers.
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: Roundy on June 02, 2016, 12:12:14 AM
But Tom did supply evidence.  If you are going to claim he's interpreting that evidence wrong don't you think it's only fair to prove it, instead of putting your fingers in your ears and repeating you're wrong you're wrong you're wrong? It shouldn't be hard to find a picture on the internet confirming your point if it's a valid one. Stop being lazy. Debate is a 2-way street.
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on June 02, 2016, 03:43:28 AM
How about some evidence?

A simple bing search would come up with several pictures of stars touching the horizon.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=star+rotation&FORM=HDRSC2&PC=APPM
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: Tom Bishop on June 02, 2016, 04:39:42 PM
How about some evidence?

A simple bing search would come up with several pictures of stars touching the horizon.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=star+rotation&FORM=HDRSC2&PC=APPM

I see some going behind mountains. I don't see any hitting the sea level horizon.
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: Rama Set on June 02, 2016, 04:57:26 PM
Again, the FEer hypocrisy surrounding photo evidence.  This is indisputable proof of Tom's point, but photo's of the Earth as a globe are not proof the Earth is round.  It is incredibly dishonest.

Regardless, it is obvious the sun is not receding because it is the same size the entire time whereas every other object that actually recedes in to the distance gets smaller inversely proportional to the distance.

EDIT: Just to silence the feeble objection-

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/02/17/25C1A67000000578-0-image-a-14_1424181711160.jpg)
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on June 02, 2016, 05:26:02 PM
Again, the FEer hypocrisy surrounding photo evidence.  This is indisputable proof of Tom's point, but photo's of the Earth as a globe are not proof the Earth is round.  It is incredibly dishonest.

Regardless, it is obvious the sun is not receding because it is the same size the entire time whereas every other object that actually recedes in to the distance gets smaller inversely proportional to the distance.

EDIT: Just to silence the feeble objection-

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/02/17/25C1A67000000578-0-image-a-14_1424181711160.jpg)

Be-a-utiful picture.
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: Tom Bishop on June 02, 2016, 05:40:07 PM
It's photoshopped. The hard edge between the trees and the sky gives it away.

Look at the other photos in that photographer's gallery. There are daytime beach scenes photoshopped with a night sky:

http://www.mediadrumworld.com/index.php?module=media&pId=102&id=8003

(http://www.mediadrumworld.com/gallery/privategal/exploration/MDRUM_WONDERS_DOWN_UNDER-4.jpg)

http://www.mediadrumworld.com/index.php?module=media&pId=102&id=8005

(http://www.mediadrumworld.com/gallery/privategal/exploration/MDRUM_WONDERS_DOWN_UNDER-5.jpg)
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: Rama Set on June 02, 2016, 06:02:18 PM
It's photoshopped. The hard edge between the trees and the sky gives it away.

Look at the other photos in that photographer's gallery. There are daytime beach scenes photoshopped with a night sky:


A hard edge is exactly what we are looking for, what in the world are you talking about?  Nice way to avoid the actual points I made.  More disingenuousness from Mr Bishop.
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on June 02, 2016, 10:10:39 PM
It's photoshopped. The hard edge between the trees and the sky gives it away.

Look at the other photos in that photographer's gallery. There are daytime beach scenes photoshopped with a night sky:


A hard edge is exactly what we are looking for, what in the world are you talking about?  Nice way to avoid the actual points I made.  More disingenuousness from Mr Bishop.

I actually agree with Tom Bishop on this one. That picture is probably a combination of multiple images or a single very long exposure image with plenty of photoshop touch-ups.

1. The complete lack of any atmospheric effects on the near-horizon stars is suspicious.
2. The directional lighting on the rock looks too far away to be artificial lighting. Could be long exposure moonlight.
3. Smeared effect of the water indicates either a very long exposure or a combination of many photos over a long period of time.


 
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: Roundy on June 02, 2016, 11:20:55 PM
The photographer makes extensive use of Photoshop in images from the same gallery. That alone is enough to debunk its usefulness in this debate to me.

Try again REers.
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: Rama Set on June 03, 2016, 12:27:36 AM
The photographer makes extensive use of Photoshop in images from the same gallery. That alone is enough to debunk its usefulness in this debate to me.

Try again REers.

Again ignoring the main thrust of my post. Hypocritical standards and an evidently erroneous assessment of the sun's disappearance are what you should be dealing with. I will find a different photo to post in the meantime.
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on June 03, 2016, 01:36:49 AM
The photographer makes extensive use of Photoshop in images from the same gallery. That alone is enough to debunk its usefulness in this debate to me.

Try again REers.

Again ignoring the main thrust of my post. Hypocritical standards and an evidently erroneous assessment of the sun's disappearance are what you should be dealing with. I will find a different photo to post in the meantime.

The "main thrust" of your post was that we can see stars right next to the horizon, but you haven't been able to provide any evidence to back up that statement.

Yes, the explanation for the sun sinking behind the horizon as provided by the flat earthers here makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, and has no evidence to back it up. But that's not what everyone was discussing. They were discussing the "stars next to the horizon" evidence.
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: Rama Set on June 03, 2016, 01:41:45 AM
The photographer makes extensive use of Photoshop in images from the same gallery. That alone is enough to debunk its usefulness in this debate to me.

Try again REers.

Again ignoring the main thrust of my post. Hypocritical standards and an evidently erroneous assessment of the sun's disappearance are what you should be dealing with. I will find a different photo to post in the meantime.

The "main thrust" of your post was that we can see stars right next to the horizon, but you haven't been able to provide any evidence to back up that statement.

Yes, the explanation for the sun sinking behind the horizon as provided by the flat earthers here makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, and has no evidence to back it up. But that's not what everyone was discussing. They were discussing the "stars next to the horizon" evidence.

My post was not about that, the photo was an aside. I will quote it again minus the picture/fail so there is further confusion:

Again, the FEer hypocrisy surrounding photo evidence.  This is indisputable proof of Tom's point, but photo's of the Earth as a globe are not proof the Earth is round.  It is incredibly dishonest.

Regardless, it is obvious the sun is not receding because it is the same size the entire time whereas every other object that actually recedes in to the distance gets smaller inversely proportional to the distance.

Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on June 03, 2016, 02:05:11 AM
My post was not about that, the photo was an aside.

Fair enough, but it was the photo that they were responding to. And they had a point.

If you want to continue pushing the other point of your post, you need to first concede the part that you were wrong about. Otherwise, they will just keep focusing on it.

Edit: Sorry, missed the last part of your post.
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: Rama Set on June 03, 2016, 09:15:12 AM
My post was not about that, the photo was an aside.

Fair enough, but it was the photo that they were responding to. And they had a point.

Which is why I asked them to stop and concentrate on my actual point.

Quote
If you want to continue pushing the other point of your post, you need to first concede the part that you were wrong about. Otherwise, they will just keep focusing on it.

I already admitted that my photo was a failure. Didn't you read my last post?
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: Tom Bishop on June 04, 2016, 03:40:03 AM
My post was not about that, the photo was an aside.

Fair enough, but it was the photo that they were responding to. And they had a point.

Which is why I asked them to stop and concentrate on my actual point.

Quote
If you want to continue pushing the other point of your post, you need to first concede the part that you were wrong about. Otherwise, they will just keep focusing on it.

I already admitted that my photo was a failure. Didn't you read my last post?

So no evidence for the claim after all, then?
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: geckothegeek on June 04, 2016, 04:05:48 AM
OK. The Titanic survivors were all liars, like all round earhers , especially sailors. LOL.
I have come to like this entertainment from the FES. Even though .....Sometimes it is worse than my opinion of The Three Stooges.
FE's , in the words of the old "Pogo"  comic strip "We have met the enemy and he is us." LOL.
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: Roundy on June 04, 2016, 09:03:40 AM
OK. The Titanic survivors were all liars

You put far too much stock in anecdotal evidence for someone who is trying to sell himself as scientifically-minded.  Do you have any idea how many different and conflicting eyewitness reports there were after the disaster?  People were cold.  They were disoriented.  They were in shock and many (probably most) had just lost loved ones.  But we are supposed to accept the observation of a few that they saw stars on the horizon as ironclad fact, when they couldn't even agree on whether or not the ship broke into separate pieces before it completely sank (http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/articles/wormstedt.pdf).   ???

Indeed, eyewitness evidence itself (even without extenuating circumstances such as having just taken part in one of the biggest disasters in maritime history) is notoriously unreliable (https://www.google.com/search?q=eyewitness+evidence&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=eyewitness+evidence+unreliable).  So please, if you can't find some real evidence, stop wasting our time, and stop whining that we refuse to accept something as evidence that it is patently ridiculous that we be expected to accept as such.
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: Rama Set on June 04, 2016, 07:43:56 PM
My post was not about that, the photo was an aside.

Fair enough, but it was the photo that they were responding to. And they had a point.

Which is why I asked them to stop and concentrate on my actual point.

Quote
If you want to continue pushing the other point of your post, you need to first concede the part that you were wrong about. Otherwise, they will just keep focusing on it.

I already admitted that my photo was a failure. Didn't you read my last post?

So no evidence for the claim after all, then?

 I have seen plenty of photos that have stars on the horizon, but it is often 1 or 2. I want to find something that you will have to work harder to come up with a bad rebuttal for. In the meantime, feel free to deal with the other points being discussed.

OK. The Titanic survivors were all liars

You put far too much stock in anecdotal evidence for someone who is trying to sell himself as scientifically-minded.  Do you have any idea how many different and conflicting eyewitness reports there were after the disaster?  People were cold.  They were disoriented.  They were in shock and many (probably most) had just lost loved ones.  But we are supposed to accept the observation of a few that they saw stars on the horizon as ironclad fact, when they couldn't even agree on whether or not the ship broke into separate pieces before it completely sank (http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/articles/wormstedt.pdf).   ???

Indeed, eyewitness evidence itself (even without extenuating circumstances such as having just taken part in one of the biggest disasters in maritime history) is notoriously unreliable (https://www.google.com/search?q=eyewitness+evidence&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=eyewitness+evidence+unreliable).  So please, if you can't find some real evidence, stop wasting our time, and stop whining that we refuse to accept something as evidence that it is patently ridiculous that we be expected to accept as such.


Patently ridiculous?  Whining?  This is rhetorical drum-beating and not worth a sod.

Elsewhere, there were photos that were posted by a FEer that we are expected to accept as evidence. If that is the case, the entire catalogue of photos that show the Earth to be round utterly destroys the FE side. 
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: Roundy on June 04, 2016, 09:52:01 PM
My post was not about that, the photo was an aside.

Fair enough, but it was the photo that they were responding to. And they had a point.

Which is why I asked them to stop and concentrate on my actual point.

Quote
If you want to continue pushing the other point of your post, you need to first concede the part that you were wrong about. Otherwise, they will just keep focusing on it.

I already admitted that my photo was a failure. Didn't you read my last post?

So no evidence for the claim after all, then?

 I have seen plenty of photos that have stars on the horizon, but it is often 1 or 2. I want to find something that you will have to work harder to come up with a bad rebuttal for. In the meantime, feel free to deal with the other points being discussed.

OK. The Titanic survivors were all liars

You put far too much stock in anecdotal evidence for someone who is trying to sell himself as scientifically-minded.  Do you have any idea how many different and conflicting eyewitness reports there were after the disaster?  People were cold.  They were disoriented.  They were in shock and many (probably most) had just lost loved ones.  But we are supposed to accept the observation of a few that they saw stars on the horizon as ironclad fact, when they couldn't even agree on whether or not the ship broke into separate pieces before it completely sank (http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/articles/wormstedt.pdf).   ???

Indeed, eyewitness evidence itself (even without extenuating circumstances such as having just taken part in one of the biggest disasters in maritime history) is notoriously unreliable (https://www.google.com/search?q=eyewitness+evidence&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=eyewitness+evidence+unreliable).  So please, if you can't find some real evidence, stop wasting our time, and stop whining that we refuse to accept something as evidence that it is patently ridiculous that we be expected to accept as such.


Patently ridiculous?  Whining?  This is rhetorical drum-beating and not worth a sod.

After the topic was basically dropped, why did gecko feel the need to continue whinging on about the fact that we are calling "all Titanic survivors liars" (an act of intellectual dishonesty on his part, btw, since I sincerely doubt that everyone who survived the disaster actually chimed in on whether there were stars directly on the horizon, but given what follows in the same post that's really no surprise)?  The eyewitness testimonies of the Titanic survivors are actually textbook examples of how unreliable eyewitness testimony can be.  Do you really think it's unreasonable of me to call him out on the fact that he gives anecdotal evidence such credence, given that he's supposed to be on the side that reveres actual scientific results and eschews everything else?

Quote
Elsewhere, there were photos that were posted by a FEer that we are expected to accept as evidence. If that is the case, the entire catalogue of photos that show the Earth to be round utterly destroys the FE side.

It does not.  Talk about rhetorical drum-beating.  ::)
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: rabinoz on June 04, 2016, 10:34:13 PM
Elsewhere, there were photos that were posted by a FEer that we are expected to accept as evidence. If that is the case, the entire catalogue of photos that show the Earth to be round utterly destroys the FE side.

It does not.  Talk about rhetorical drum-beating.  ::)
I think I get the message:
  ;D Yes, I suppose that is a good tactic.  ;D
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: geckothegeek on June 04, 2016, 11:42:09 PM
Elsewhere, there were photos that were posted by a FEer that we are expected to accept as evidence. If that is the case, the entire catalogue of photos that show the Earth to be round utterly destroys the FE side.

It does not.  Talk about rhetorical drum-beating.  ::)
I think I get the message:
  • Eyewitness accounts and photos by FEers are automatically accepted as firm evidence.
  • Eyewitness accounts and photos by Globe supporters are automatically discarded as lies or Photoshopped.

  ;D Yes, I suppose that is a good tactic.  ;D

Elementary my dear Watson ! That is the modus operandi on this website.
Anythiing that is real is lies and anything that is imaginary is evidence. LOL.
FE was destroyed long ago but not the FES,
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: geckothegeek on June 05, 2016, 02:25:55 AM
OK. The Titanic survivors were all liars

You put far too much stock in anecdotal evidence for someone who is trying to sell himself as scientifically-minded.  Do you have any idea how many different and conflicting eyewitness reports there were after the disaster?  People were cold.  They were disoriented.  They were in shock and many (probably most) had just lost loved ones.  But we are supposed to accept the observation of a few that they saw stars on the horizon as ironclad fact, when they couldn't even agree on whether or not the ship broke into separate pieces before it completely sank (http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/articles/wormstedt.pdf).   ???

Indeed, eyewitness evidence itself (even without extenuating circumstances such as having just taken part in one of the biggest disasters in maritime history) is notoriously unreliable (https://www.google.com/search?q=eyewitness+evidence&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=eyewitness+evidence+unreliable).  So please, if you can't find some real evidence, stop wasting our time, and stop whining that we refuse to accept something as evidence that it is patently ridiculous that we be expected to accept as such.
The Titanic incident was just one example. For example,  we have been  to Grand Canyon and Big Bend National Parks and you certainly can see more stars there than in the city and they are just as bright as those directly overhead or those on the horizon. Ask any Park Ranger unless you consider them part of The Great Round Earth Conspiracy.
Ask anyone who has ever been to sea.
Ask anyone except a flat earther.LOL.. It's really elementary and the horizon is one of the easiest of flat earth fantasies to de-bunk.
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: Roundy on June 05, 2016, 09:29:43 AM
OK. The Titanic survivors were all liars

You put far too much stock in anecdotal evidence for someone who is trying to sell himself as scientifically-minded.  Do you have any idea how many different and conflicting eyewitness reports there were after the disaster?  People were cold.  They were disoriented.  They were in shock and many (probably most) had just lost loved ones.  But we are supposed to accept the observation of a few that they saw stars on the horizon as ironclad fact, when they couldn't even agree on whether or not the ship broke into separate pieces before it completely sank (http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/articles/wormstedt.pdf).   ???

Indeed, eyewitness evidence itself (even without extenuating circumstances such as having just taken part in one of the biggest disasters in maritime history) is notoriously unreliable (https://www.google.com/search?q=eyewitness+evidence&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=eyewitness+evidence+unreliable).  So please, if you can't find some real evidence, stop wasting our time, and stop whining that we refuse to accept something as evidence that it is patently ridiculous that we be expected to accept as such.
The Titanic incident was just one example.

One that it was extremely foolish of you to hitch your pony to. I do hope you at least learned something from your silly little flub.
Title: Re: If you can answer these questions with proof, I will become a flat Earther
Post by: Venus on June 06, 2016, 02:40:43 AM
Elsewhere, there were photos that were posted by a FEer that we are expected to accept as evidence. If that is the case, the entire catalogue of photos that show the Earth to be round utterly destroys the FE side.

It does not.  Talk about rhetorical drum-beating.  ::)
I think I get the message:
  • Eyewitness accounts and photos by FEers are automatically accepted as firm evidence.
  • Eyewitness accounts and photos by Globe supporters are automatically discarded as lies or Photoshopped.

  ;D Yes, I suppose that is a good tactic.  ;D

Elementary my dear Watson ! That is the modus operandi on this website.
Anythiing that is real is lies and anything that is imaginary is evidence. LOL.
FE was destroyed long ago but not the FES,

I agree with both of you ... this forum is  ... "off the planet" !!

Scientific Method be damned... the FE'ers have no idea what it is !!