The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Theory => Topic started by: Roundabout on May 06, 2016, 08:08:01 PM

Title: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: Roundabout on May 06, 2016, 08:08:01 PM
Brought to you by the Vast Conspiracy:

Visit http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/posts/895 (http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/posts/895), then scroll down nearly to the bottom, where you will see a large image of the earth. If you like, click on the Full Screen button at the bottom of the image, then click on the + sign at the upper left a few times. Many details of the earth's surface can be seen, including the east coast of the US and the Great Lakes at the upper left, and Europe at top center. And if you zoom in far enough, it looks flat.  :D

The rest of the page tells how the image was created. To get a hi-res color image of the earth from the moon, particularly with this image's spectacular occlusion of the earth by the moon, just attaching your Canon point-and-click to the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter doesn't suffice.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on May 06, 2016, 10:49:34 PM
Brought to you by the Vast Conspiracy:

Visit http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/posts/895 (http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/posts/895), then scroll down nearly to the bottom, where you will see a large image of the earth. If you like, click on the Full Screen button at the bottom of the image, then click on the + sign at the upper left a few times. Many details of the earth's surface can be seen, including the east coast of the US and the Great Lakes at the upper left, and Europe at top center. And if you zoom in far enough, it looks flat.  :D

The rest of the page tells how the image was created. To get a hi-res color image of the earth from the moon, particularly with this image's spectacular occlusion of the earth by the moon, just attaching your Canon point-and-click to the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter doesn't suffice.

Clearly faked. I was able to make out the words "FET" (Northern Spain) and "Flo" (south of Madagascar) in the clouds! Maybe Flo from Progressive Insurance is really a flat earth agent, and is trying to tell us she has infiltrated the enemy HQ!??!?

Edit: The "o" in "Flo" is written with a little heart shape. It's definitely her!
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on May 07, 2016, 02:48:54 AM
It's actually clearly faked because it clearly looks fake. You have to really be lying to yourself if you say you've ever seen glossy dust before.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on May 07, 2016, 04:02:11 AM
It's actually clearly faked because it clearly looks fake. You have to really be lying to yourself if you say you've ever seen glossy dust before.

First of all, it looks more matte than glossy to me. It does look oddly featureless though. I've never seen the surface of the moon up close in person, so I don't really have anything to compare it too..

However, there are several things to keep in mind about moon dust.

1. It is supposedly very fine (according to NASA).
2. It doesn't experience weathering. There are no worms or plants to churn the soil. No water to dig out little ridges. No wind to blow it around. It just stays exactly as it settles after a meteor impact.
3. The shadows are extremely sharp. There is no atmosphere to provide ambient light. We are used to seeing ambient light on everything on earth.

Knowing this, is it surprising that a smooth layer of fine dust without any ambient light appears oddly featureless/cartoonish compared to what we are used to seeing on earth? Imagine that it's a field of freshly fallen snow. Lit by a spotlight in the pitch black of night. Grey snow. With little meteor impacts in it. :)

Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on May 07, 2016, 04:09:09 AM
That's an awful lot of explaining. Just admit it looks fake. Doesn't even look like the surface from the fans Apollo footage, you think they would be consistent.

It's a terrible cgi, NASA needs a bigger budget, have you seen interstellar?
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: rabinoz on May 07, 2016, 04:27:16 AM
That's an awful lot of explaining. Just admit it looks fake. Doesn't even look like the surface from the fans Apollo footage, you think they would be consistent.

It's a terrible cgi, NASA needs a bigger budget, have you seen interstellar?
OK, so you don't like the idea of the Globe (of are you still sitting on the fence).
What about coming up with some viable alternative?

Or are you one of these negative people who simply never know what to believe?
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on May 07, 2016, 04:53:10 AM
That's an awful lot of explaining. Just admit it looks fake.

I will, actually. It looks fake. That doesn't mean it IS fake though. We are looking at an alien landscape. We have nothing on earth to compare it to. We need more evidence than "Meh! It looks fake" to make a decision on its authenticity.

Is there a problem in my "awful lot of explaining"? Complaining about the length isn't very helpful.

I actually find it quite fascinating that the unique conditions of the moon lends itself to a fake looking environment.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on May 07, 2016, 03:16:07 PM
Suspension of disbelief at its finest.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: Roundabout on May 07, 2016, 03:24:11 PM
That's an awful lot of explaining. Just admit it looks fake. Doesn't even look like the surface from the fans Apollo footage, you think they would be consistent.

We need something more helpful than "it looks fake." What specifically looks wrong, and why? What is the far side of the moon supposed to look like from 83 miles up? If you zoom the image to the max (button at upper left) you can see a lot of detail on the lunar surface, particularly near the bottom of the image, much closer to the cameras than near the lunar limb.

Bear in mind that the moon has very little water (no liquid water) and almost no atmosphere, and meteors have been using it for target practice for billions of years.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: Captain Magpie on May 07, 2016, 04:51:28 PM
I don't see the issue, it just looks like dunes to me. Which would make sense as it is a layer of dust. Also, as someone near sighted I can attest to when there is a lot of bright, direct sunlight out I can see things much more clearly even with my corrective lenses on. Since it is unimpeded sunlight there is just a sharper contrast on very Hi-Res photo.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: Rounder on May 07, 2016, 06:15:48 PM
That's an awful lot of explaining.
Suspension of disbelief at its finest.

Really?  You want to talk about 'an awful lot of explaining' and 'suspension of disbelief' with us?  The Flat Earth has BEST examples:

"Universal" Acceleration (http://wiki.tfes.org/Gravity), which accelerates the earth, moon, sun, and other celestial objects (if not, the earth would be catching up to and passing some of them) but not any of the objects on or near the earth (as in: when I release a bowling ball in the air above the earth, why does that bowling ball not feel "universal" acceleration and begin accelerating in the same direction as the earth, which would make it appear to hover?)

The Shadow Object (http://wiki.tfes.org/The_Lunar_Eclipse), the never-observed moon-like-thing that invisibly casts its shadow upon the moon during lunar eclipses, and otherwise leaves zero observational evidence of its existence.

Celestial Gears (http://wiki.tfes.org/The_Coriolis_Effect), which supposedly explains both why we have wind on the earth's surface, and how the stars rotate one direction in the northern hemisphere while rotating the other way in the southern hemisphere, but fails to address the fact that such a system would look truly bizarre at the equator (the two halves of the sky would have to diverge from each other as they set, in order to rotate in opposite directions from northern and southern latitudes).  And fails to address the fact that such a system is incompatible with the most popular flat earth 'map' on the site.

Bendy Light (http://wiki.tfes.org/The_Setting_of_the_Sun), a convenient hypothetical construct that allows FE to completely ignore the fact that light travels in straight lines except where it is subject to refraction, and even there refraction functions to move light from one straight-line path to another straight-line path, is well understood, and shows no experimental justification for working differently over long distances than short distances.  Ignore it, that is, until a flat earther uses perfectly-straight-line sun elevation observations to calculate the sun's elevation above a plane earth.  For some reason, when doing that math, the light of the sun doesn't bend or curve at all.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on May 07, 2016, 06:36:54 PM
That's an awful lot of explaining.
Suspension of disbelief at its finest.

Really?  You want to talk about 'an awful lot of explaining' and 'suspension of disbelief' with us?  The Flat Earth has BEST examples:

"Universal" Acceleration (http://wiki.tfes.org/Gravity), which accelerates the earth, moon, sun, and other celestial objects (if not, the earth would be catching up to and passing some of them) but not any of the objects on or near the earth (as in: when I release a bowling ball in the air above the earth, why does that bowling ball not feel "universal" acceleration and begin accelerating in the same direction as the earth, which would make it appear to hover?)

The Shadow Object (http://wiki.tfes.org/The_Lunar_Eclipse), the never-observed moon-like-thing that invisibly casts its shadow upon the moon during lunar eclipses, and otherwise leaves zero observational evidence of its existence.

Celestial Gears (http://wiki.tfes.org/The_Coriolis_Effect), which supposedly explains both why we have wind on the earth's surface, and how the stars rotate one direction in the northern hemisphere while rotating the other way in the southern hemisphere, but fails to address the fact that such a system would look truly bizarre at the equator (the two halves of the sky would have to diverge from each other as they set, in order to rotate in opposite directions from northern and southern latitudes).  And fails to address the fact that such a system is incompatible with the most popular flat earth 'map' on the site.

Bendy Light (http://wiki.tfes.org/The_Setting_of_the_Sun), a convenient hypothetical construct that allows FE to completely ignore the fact that light travels in straight lines except where it is subject to refraction, and even there refraction functions to move light from one straight-line path to another straight-line path, is well understood, and shows no experimental justification for working differently over long distances than short distances.  Ignore it, that is, until a flat earther uses perfectly-straight-line sun elevation observations to calculate the sun's elevation above a plane earth.  For some reason, when doing that math, the light of the sun doesn't bend or curve at all.

Dude, the picture looks like a 3d render from 1997. I can't believe how much shit you guys are willing to shovel into your mouth from NASA just to keep your space fantasy alive.

I'm not ddebating the shape of the earth right now, I'm appealing to common sense here. That "photograph" looks phoney as hell, no debate.

Even on a spherical earth I do not believe in space travel and this graphic certainly doesn't convince me.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on May 07, 2016, 06:39:33 PM
https://www.google.com/search?q=earth+from+moon+apollo&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwivkPrxzcjMAhVC8x4KHciKCgcQ_AUIBigB

Which is it? What does earth look like from the moon? How big does it look?
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: Roundabout on May 07, 2016, 07:02:01 PM
Dude, the picture looks like a 3d render from 1997. I can't believe how much shit you guys are willing to shovel into your mouth from NASA just to keep your space fantasy alive.

I'm not ddebating the shape of the earth right now, I'm appealing to common sense here. That "photograph" looks phoney as hell, no debate.

Even on a spherical earth I do not believe in space travel and this graphic certainly doesn't convince me.

You still haven't mentioned any specifics as to why it looks phony to you. When people say that something looks phony or fake, they can generally point to something that doesn't look right and explain why. You do realize, I trust, that the webpage says that the raw data from the cameras was processed in the ways described to generate the image.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: Roundabout on May 07, 2016, 07:09:37 PM
https://www.google.com/search?q=earth+from+moon+apollo&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwivkPrxzcjMAhVC8x4KHciKCgcQ_AUIBigB

Which is it? What does earth look like from the moon? How big does it look?

The full earth subtends about 2 degrees viewed from the Moon. The apparent size of the earth in a photo, of course, depends on whether a zoom lens was used, whether the photo was cropped, etc. The colors in a photo also depend on the camera and the specifics of how the data was processed to create the image. The same is true of pretty much any photographic subject.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: Roundabout on May 07, 2016, 07:18:59 PM
That's an awful lot of explaining.
Suspension of disbelief at its finest.

Really?  You want to talk about 'an awful lot of explaining' and 'suspension of disbelief' with us?  The Flat Earth has BEST examples:

"Universal" Acceleration (http://wiki.tfes.org/Gravity), which accelerates the earth, moon, sun, and other celestial objects (if not, the earth would be catching up to and passing some of them) but not any of the objects on or near the earth (as in: when I release a bowling ball in the air above the earth, why does that bowling ball not feel "universal" acceleration and begin accelerating in the same direction as the earth, which would make it appear to hover?)

The Shadow Object (http://wiki.tfes.org/The_Lunar_Eclipse), the never-observed moon-like-thing that invisibly casts its shadow upon the moon during lunar eclipses, and otherwise leaves zero observational evidence of its existence.

Celestial Gears (http://wiki.tfes.org/The_Coriolis_Effect), which supposedly explains both why we have wind on the earth's surface, and how the stars rotate one direction in the northern hemisphere while rotating the other way in the southern hemisphere, but fails to address the fact that such a system would look truly bizarre at the equator (the two halves of the sky would have to diverge from each other as they set, in order to rotate in opposite directions from northern and southern latitudes).  And fails to address the fact that such a system is incompatible with the most popular flat earth 'map' on the site.

Bendy Light (http://wiki.tfes.org/The_Setting_of_the_Sun), a convenient hypothetical construct that allows FE to completely ignore the fact that light travels in straight lines except where it is subject to refraction, and even there refraction functions to move light from one straight-line path to another straight-line path, is well understood, and shows no experimental justification for working differently over long distances than short distances.  Ignore it, that is, until a flat earther uses perfectly-straight-line sun elevation observations to calculate the sun's elevation above a plane earth.  For some reason, when doing that math, the light of the sun doesn't bend or curve at all.

To add to the list, there is the sun's spiraling path above the earth. The sun's motion, if I'm not mistaken, is caused by the Flat Earth Force, the force that causes objects to move in a way consistent with Flat Earth Theory.

And let's not forget the Great NASA Conspiracy, by orders of magnitude the largest and most successful conspiracy in the history of the world.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on May 07, 2016, 07:28:40 PM
Roundabout, has overwhelming condescension always been your dominating personality trait or is this just an aberration of your character?

It looks phoney to me because the surface looks smooth and shiny, in contradiction to any real dusty, dirt covered surface I've ever seen photographed, and in contradiction to what is shown in the thousands of other photos and videos of the surface allegedly captured by Apollo astronauts.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: Roundabout on May 07, 2016, 08:10:49 PM
Roundabout, has overwhelming condescension always been your dominating personality trait or is this just an aberration of your character?

Always been my dominating personality trait.

Quote
It looks phoney to me because the surface looks smooth and shiny, in contradiction to any real dusty, dirt covered surface I've ever seen photographed, and in contradiction to what is shown in the thousands of other photos and videos of the surface allegedly captured by Apollo astronauts.

If you look near the bottom of the image at full zoom you'll see some rough-looking surfaces. The cameras were 83 miles above the lunar surface, not on the ground, so that may account for some differences from ground photos.

In any case, your objection is another instance of the "I-can't-understand-why-a-real-photo-would-look-like-this-therefore-fake" genre, very popular with Moon Hoaxers. If you don't know what a real photo of the Moon would look like, taken with those particular cameras under those specific conditions, and produced by the same image processing, then you don't really have grounds for concluding that the photo is a fake. If we saw golf courses or ocean beaches in a Moon photo, we would know it was faked, but all we have here is your subjective impression that it looks too smooth and shiny.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: Roundabout on May 07, 2016, 08:32:38 PM
A related genre is the "I-don't-understand-why-this-piece-of-equipment-looks-this-way-therefore-fake" category. For a classic example, see this Wiki page:
http://wiki.tfes.org/A_Close_Look_at_the_Lunar_Lander (http://wiki.tfes.org/A_Close_Look_at_the_Lunar_Lander)
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on May 07, 2016, 11:03:03 PM
Quick to say the reason someone didn't believe something is because they don't understand it. It is nothing but a thinly veiled ad hominem attack.

Luckily for me, theres not a lot to understand here. It looks like 1994 cgi. The only knowledge I need for that is knowing how to use my eyes. Fortunately for me, the incredibly sophisticated process of interpreting light through a highly complex organ in my skull sockets is virtually done automatically.

There's nothing else that needs to be known. The absolute rejection of your own senses  in an effort to keep alive your bizarly overwhelming need to believe, is so very sad at this point.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: Randominput on May 08, 2016, 01:44:06 AM
You know what, it does look fake. Does not mean it is. Parallel lines seem to converge at a distance. Doesn't mean they do (and if you really, genuinely think parallel lines touch, you lose my ability to take you seriously. Saying the Earth is flat is one thing, saying parallel lines touch is something else).

Fact is there are some images of some places on Earth that you could probably see for yourself that look fake. Saying those are fake would be like saying your couch is fake.

Might it be fake? Yes. Is it 100% certainly fake? No. The only certainty is that we are certain of nothing (but saying a millennium of research is fake with no repeatable experiment saying otherwise is silly. Have a base for your arguements at least).
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on May 08, 2016, 03:36:17 AM
You know what, it does look fake.

Thank you for keeping it real. The whole bit about parallel lines and what not is apples and oranges.

At first glance, and then after much examination, this absolutely appears to be a 3d graphic lunar surface super imposed in front of a composite earth.

Maybe they will say the lunar surface is just mapped out from data and not an actual photograph, that might make sense. But to try to pass this off as a genuine photograph is just plain amateur. I've seen so much better cgi in movies, that looks even believable, and even then I always spot it.

Here's the Japanese equivalent for comparison, and even these look way more realistic. (https://www.google.com/search?q=japanese+earth+rise+moon+photo&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi68JvCxcnMAhXDZCYKHbaCC44Q_AUIBigB)
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on May 08, 2016, 04:44:38 AM
At first glance, and then after much examination, this absolutely appears to be a 3d graphic lunar surface super imposed in front of a composite earth.

I'm sorry, but "it looks fake" just is not going to cut it. If you want to declare it to be fake, then you need to give SPECIFIC reasons why you think it is fake. This should be an easy task if it really is so obviously fake. So far you have given exactly two specific complaints about it:

1. The surface looks smooth.

Yes. Of course it looks smooth. It's a layer of fine dust that isn't subject to weathering. The photo was also taken from quite far away. Why would it not look smooth? And yes, dirt can look smooth on earth too. (http://7-themes.com/data_images/out/74/7026824-sand-dunes.jpg)

2. The surface looks shiny.

How so? I don't see a single specular reflection in the entire photograph. Are you sure "shiny" is the word you are looking for?
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: Setec Astronomy on May 08, 2016, 05:30:29 AM
If someone told you this picture was a real selfie they took outside, would you believe it? Why or why not?

(http://s32.postimg.org/9c7eozsxx/gta_5_gamers_investigate_weird_explosions_sandy.jpg)
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on May 08, 2016, 06:58:04 AM
If someone told you this picture was a real selfie they took outside, would you believe it? Why or why not?

(http://s32.postimg.org/9c7eozsxx/gta_5_gamers_investigate_weird_explosions_sandy.jpg)

Haha, excellent retort. I was actually thinking of doing this anyway, just to give TheTruthIsOnHere some ideas about how to approach the problem. For convenience, I hereby name foreground dude "Ringworm" and background dude "Peter Pan". Here goes...

1. Unexpected polygonal shadows in Ringworm's shirt indicates a low vertex count model.
2. Clearly this should be a dynamically lit environment, with a wide range of light levels. However, all shadows are equally lit. This indicates the use of a global ambient shader.
3. Ground texture becomes blurry in the back at sharp angles with the camera. Poor texture filtering.
4. Ground level wasn't very well defined: plant models begin underground, with branches/leaves coming straight out of the ground.
5. Peter Pan's shadow has escaped.
6. Aliasing everywhere.

I am certainly not an expert at this. However, I at least made very specific complaints about the "photo". Now, if you think one of my arguments is wrong, you can try to specifically refute it. For example, you could counter point 5 by saying: "Peter Pan's shadow didn't escape, he is just jumping!". This prevents arguments from devolving into this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAyuhfZ85nE&t=2m4s).
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: CableDawg on May 08, 2016, 01:02:36 PM
That's an awful lot of explaining. Just admit it looks fake. Doesn't even look like the surface from the fans Apollo footage, you think they would be consistent.

It's a terrible cgi, NASA needs a bigger budget, have you seen interstellar?


Does the patch of Earth which you claim as home look the same today as it did 40 or 50 years ago?

Further, please explain how one picture taken 40 or 50 years ago is supposed to look the same as another picture taken at a completely different location 40 or 50 years later.

I think we would all like to know your logical roller coaster ride on this one.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: CableDawg on May 08, 2016, 01:10:17 PM

To add to the list, there is the sun's spiraling path above the earth. The sun's motion, if I'm not mistaken, is caused by the Flat Earth Force, the force that causes objects to move in a way consistent with Flat Earth Theory.

And let's not forget the Great NASA Conspiracy, by orders of magnitude the largest and most successful conspiracy in the history of the world.
[/quote]

They're probably responsible for Kennedy and 9/11 as well.  We'll have to wait a few more years for these to be fully integrated though.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: CableDawg on May 08, 2016, 01:18:48 PM
Roundabout, has overwhelming condescension always been your dominating personality trait or is this just an aberration of your character?

It looks phoney to me because the surface looks smooth and shiny, in contradiction to any real dusty, dirt covered surface I've ever seen photographed, and in contradiction to what is shown in the thousands of other photos and videos of the surface allegedly captured by Apollo astronauts.

So, in one instance you're comparing an alien surface, which you've got zero experience with, to one you know and in another instance you're comparing one photo which you proclaim to be fake against another which you claim to be fake.

Concerning the first, do you regularly make real/fake judgments based upon zero experience?

Concerning the second, do you regularly compare two or more things you consider to be fake to make a judgment of realism on them?

Either train of logic seems more like a train wreck to me.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: Setec Astronomy on May 08, 2016, 09:34:17 PM
If someone told you this picture was a real selfie they took outside, would you believe it? Why or why not?

(http://s32.postimg.org/9c7eozsxx/gta_5_gamers_investigate_weird_explosions_sandy.jpg)

Haha, excellent retort. I was actually thinking of doing this anyway, just to give TheTruthIsOnHere some ideas about how to approach the problem. For convenience, I hereby name foreground dude "Ringworm" and background dude "Peter Pan". Here goes...

1. Unexpected polygonal shadows in Ringworm's shirt indicates a low vertex count model.
2. Clearly this should be a dynamically lit environment, with a wide range of light levels. However, all shadows are equally lit. This indicates the use of a global ambient shader.
3. Ground texture becomes blurry in the back at sharp angles with the camera. Poor texture filtering.
4. Ground level wasn't very well defined: plant models begin underground, with branches/leaves coming straight out of the ground.
5. Peter Pan's shadow has escaped.
6. Aliasing everywhere.

1. The picture is taken from an old cell phone digital camera which obviously uses poor quality digital rendering software.
2. See above. Digital cameras must digitally render images so this is expected with homie's decrepit Obamaphone and it's low-quality image rendering. Also, sunlight has the same intensity as expected.
3. This is a fault of the camera software. Not ever picture can come out looking perfect you know.
4. You don't live in this area and have no idea what the ground looks like. It is possible for leaves and branches to be placed in the ground - homie might have stuck them in there like a poor man's lawn flamingo to give the scene a certain je ne sais quoi
5. No, clearly he had hopped in the air the moment the picture was taken, as a goof.
6. Homie has a cheap sub-megapixel cell camera. Obamaphones aren't your iPhone 6S you know.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: Captain Magpie on May 08, 2016, 10:37:42 PM
1. The picture is taken from an old cell phone digital camera which obviously uses poor quality digital rendering software.
2. See above. Digital cameras must digitally render images so this is expected with homie's decrepit Obamaphone and it's low-quality image rendering. Also, sunlight has the same intensity as expected.
3. This is a fault of the camera software. Not ever picture can come out looking perfect you know.
4. You don't live in this area and have no idea what the ground looks like. It is possible for leaves and branches to be placed in the ground - homie might have stuck them in there like a poor man's lawn flamingo to give the scene a certain je ne sais quoi
5. No, clearly he had hopped in the air the moment the picture was taken, as a goof.
6. Homie has a cheap sub-megapixel cell camera. Obamaphones aren't your iPhone 6S you know.
I see what you are trying to do but the two do not equate.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on May 09, 2016, 12:18:37 AM
If someone told you this picture was a real selfie they took outside, would you believe it? Why or why not?

(http://s32.postimg.org/9c7eozsxx/gta_5_gamers_investigate_weird_explosions_sandy.jpg)

Haha, excellent retort. I was actually thinking of doing this anyway, just to give TheTruthIsOnHere some ideas about how to approach the problem. For convenience, I hereby name foreground dude "Ringworm" and background dude "Peter Pan". Here goes...

1. Unexpected polygonal shadows in Ringworm's shirt indicates a low vertex count model.
2. Clearly this should be a dynamically lit environment, with a wide range of light levels. However, all shadows are equally lit. This indicates the use of a global ambient shader.
3. Ground texture becomes blurry in the back at sharp angles with the camera. Poor texture filtering.
4. Ground level wasn't very well defined: plant models begin underground, with branches/leaves coming straight out of the ground.
5. Peter Pan's shadow has escaped.
6. Aliasing everywhere.

1. The picture is taken from an old cell phone digital camera which obviously uses poor quality digital rendering software.
2. See above. Digital cameras must digitally render images so this is expected with homie's decrepit Obamaphone and it's low-quality image rendering. Also, sunlight has the same intensity as expected.
3. This is a fault of the camera software. Not ever picture can come out looking perfect you know.
4. You don't live in this area and have no idea what the ground looks like. It is possible for leaves and branches to be placed in the ground - homie might have stuck them in there like a poor man's lawn flamingo to give the scene a certain je ne sais quoi
5. No, clearly he had hopped in the air the moment the picture was taken, as a goof.
6. Homie has a cheap sub-megapixel cell camera. Obamaphones aren't your iPhone 6S you know.

I assume you are trying to prove some kind of point. Perhaps it would be helpful to just come out and say it directly?

Fine, I'll play along...

1. The vertex resolution of the polygons is much less than the resolution of the photo. Therefore, it has nothing to do with the camera's poor quality.
2. I was referring to shadow intensity, not sunlight intensity. For example, the shadow deep in the corner of the trailer is the same intensity as Peter Pan's shadow. Also, what exactly do you think digital cameras do when they "render" images? Are you sure you know what that word means?
3. Photos can be blurry in back due to focus. But in this image, only the textures that are at a sharp angle to the camera appear blurry. This happens in 3D rendering, but not photography.
4. He sure does have great taste in art.
5. His posture would indicate otherwise, but it's plausible. What a goof.
6. The aliasing of the shadow on Ringworm's right sleeve is much lower resolution than the photo resolution. This happens in 3D rendering, but not photography.

See how much fun this is? We could be doing this for the original picture, but you STILL haven't provided actual reasons why you think it is faked.

also... *cough* more irony (http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=4954.msg96459#msg96459) *cough*
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: Setec Astronomy on May 09, 2016, 12:41:43 AM
See how much fun this is? We could be doing this for the original picture, but you STILL haven't provided actual reasons why you think it is faked.

I was not talking about the original picture, I was addressing the nonsensical idea that something which appears to be an obvious fake should not be regarded as fake.

Did you really have to measure the vertex angles and polygon count, etc. before reaching the conclusion the GTA picture was fake, or could you, you know, figure it out right away just by looking at it?
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: BlueMoon on May 09, 2016, 01:06:52 AM
See how much fun this is? We could be doing this for the original picture, but you STILL haven't provided actual reasons why you think it is faked.

I was not talking about the original picture, I was addressing the nonsensical idea that something which appears to be an obvious fake should not be regarded as fake.

Did you really have to measure the vertex angles and polygon count, etc. before reaching the conclusion the GTA picture was fake, or could you, you know, figure it out right away just by looking at it?
The point is that "just looking at it" isn't enough to prove a point.  Every aspect of the image of the moon can be explained cohesively without resorting to CGI, and it is up to you to explain why this might not be the case. 
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on May 09, 2016, 01:27:15 AM
Explaining something cohesively is the thing you don't have to do when something is obvious. Your brain is obviously at war with your own senses. The photo doesn't look real. No matter how many reasons you can come up with for why it doesn't, but still might be. If you choose to accept it that's your choice, but it just goes to show the type of low quality shit you'll accept as long as it's from your favorite space bureaucracy.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: Captain Magpie on May 09, 2016, 01:32:50 AM
Explaining something cohesively is the thing you don't have to do when something is obvious. Your brain is obviously at war with your own senses. The photo doesn't look real. No matter how many reasons you can come up with for why it doesn't, but still might be. If you choose to accept it that's your choice, but it just goes to show the type of low quality shit you'll accept as long as it's from your favorite space bureaucracy.
Well to everyone but you this is not a obvious fake. We know the changed the contrast to make the picture clearer and that they added the color the earth to make it look pretty but it isn't like they didn't also offer up the unedited version of the picture for you too look at too. In the original the things you are having issues with are not there.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on May 09, 2016, 01:35:37 AM
Did you really have to measure the vertex angles and polygon count, etc. before reaching the conclusion the GTA picture was fake, or could you, you know, figure it out right away just by looking at it?

No I didn't. As humans, we are quite proficient at facial recognition. We do it every day. It is relatively difficult to create a CGI face that can fool a person up close. However, we do NOT have daily experience with recognizing a lunar landscape. This is why we need to remain objective, and not rely on intuition.

Despite my intuitive recognition of the fake image, I was still able give a list of specific reasons why I believed it to be fake. I was able to objectively defend most of those reasons. If the lunar landscape really is so obviously fake, then you should likewise be able to back up that claim with specific evidence.

Explaining something cohesively is the thing you don't have to do when something is obvious. Your brain is obviously at war with your own senses. The photo doesn't look real. No matter how many reasons you can come up with for why it doesn't, but still might be. If you choose to accept it that's your choice, but it just goes to show the type of low quality shit you'll accept as long as it's from your favorite space bureaucracy.

Refusing to explain something cohesively despite it being so "obvious" is the thing you do when you don't actually have any specific evidence to support your gut feeling. I'm sorry, no matter how many times you tell us it doesn't look real, I am still going to require some specific evidence before I take you seriously. So far, the silence has been deafening.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on May 09, 2016, 01:46:34 AM
http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/data/support/downloads/Earth_and_Limb_M1199291564L_bw_1stretch.tif

Now that I'm being forced to explain why this image is fake, eventhough it should be obvious to anyone with no vested interest, I took a closer look. The shadows make absolutely no sense. Look at the ones in the lower part of the image and you can tell they are cast in a different direction than the ones in the middle, and the sizes of the shadows are bizarre. Thats probably what my eye rejected instinctively, but the saran wrap glossy texture is what I noticed the most.

Also explain the terminator line thing to me. Which angle is the sun light hitting this surface from? The shadows indicate like a 15~25 degree angle but that terminator line of black mountains certainly wouldn't make sense.

I'm so ashamed of myself right now for having had to explain that to you, by the way.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: CableDawg on May 09, 2016, 02:40:37 AM
Explaining something cohesively is the thing you don't have to do when something is obvious. Your brain is obviously at war with your own senses. The photo doesn't look real. No matter how many reasons you can come up with for why it doesn't, but still might be. If you choose to accept it that's your choice, but it just goes to show the type of low quality shit you'll accept as long as it's from your favorite space bureaucracy.

Your brain is obviously at war with your own senses yet you're going to stand on the premise of your senses anyway?

What are your senses without your brain?  Please explain how you're taking your brain out of the picture (no pun intended) and relying solely on your senses.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on May 09, 2016, 02:57:01 AM
http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/data/support/downloads/Earth_and_Limb_M1199291564L_bw_1stretch.tif

Now that I'm being forced to explain why this image is fake, eventhough it should be obvious to anyone with no vested interest, I took a closer look. The shadows make absolutely no sense. Look at the ones in the lower part of the image and you can tell they are cast in a different direction than the ones in the middle, and the sizes of the shadows are bizarre. Thats probably what my eye rejected instinctively, but the saran wrap glossy texture is what I noticed the most.

This is much more useful, thanks. Matching up shadows is rather difficult on a 2D image of rolling hills, but we can try I guess. All the shadows seem to be roughly pointing in the same direction to me, although I haven't exactly gone over it with a fine-toothed comb. Perhaps post an image with the problem shadows circled? Feel free to scale down the image if you do. We don't need the 100 MB source image posted repeatedly.

The most interesting thing to me is the grey smudge around earth. I assume it is a compression artifact, but I could be wrong.

Quote
Also explain the terminator line thing to me. Which angle is the sun light hitting this surface from? The shadows indicate like a 15~25 degree angle but that terminator line of black mountains certainly wouldn't make sense.

The camera is at a higher altitude than the sun, angle-wise. The mountains in the back have line of sight to the camera, but not the sun. That's why they are black. I don't know the exact angle. I'm sure it was posted somewhere by NASA though.

Quote
I'm so ashamed of myself right now for having had to explain that to you, by the way.

Your gracious condescension is appreciated.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: Setec Astronomy on May 09, 2016, 03:56:54 AM
Did you really have to measure the vertex angles and polygon count, etc. before reaching the conclusion the GTA picture was fake, or could you, you know, figure it out right away just by looking at it?

No I didn't. As humans, we are quite proficient at facial recognition. We do it every day. It is relatively difficult to create a CGI face that can fool a person up close.
Perhaps he wore a latex face mask because he didn't want his real picture on the Internet? Hell, there's a guy over in my LLR Hoax thread who won't even reveal anything about a supposed UK astronomer he chats with on StackExchange who can cooberate his nonsensical claims. Lotta crazy people out there and identities must be hidden, right?  ::)

See, it's really easy to just make shit up about why something fake "could" be real.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on May 09, 2016, 04:23:19 AM
Did you really have to measure the vertex angles and polygon count, etc. before reaching the conclusion the GTA picture was fake, or could you, you know, figure it out right away just by looking at it?

No I didn't. As humans, we are quite proficient at facial recognition. We do it every day. It is relatively difficult to create a CGI face that can fool a person up close.
Perhaps he wore a latex face mask because he didn't want his real picture on the Internet? Hell, there's a guy over in my LLR Hoax thread who won't even reveal anything about a supposed UK astronomer he chats with on StackExchange who can cooberate his nonsensical claims. Lotta crazy people out there and identities must be hidden, right?  ::)

See, it's really easy to just make shit up about why something fake "could" be real.

Sure, you can rationalize away any evidence if you try hard enough. Are you implying that we should completely do away with objective evidence, and completely rely on intuition for everything? That would be chaos.

Besides, you haven't even provided any evidence to rationalize away yet.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: Randominput on May 10, 2016, 11:10:40 AM
You know what, it does look fake.

Thank you for keeping it real. The whole bit about parallel lines and what not is apples and oranges.

At first glance, and then after much examination, this absolutely appears to be a 3d graphic lunar surface super imposed in front of a composite earth.

Maybe they will say the lunar surface is just mapped out from data and not an actual photograph, that might make sense. But to try to pass this off as a genuine photograph is just plain amateur. I've seen so much better cgi in movies, that looks even believable, and even then I always spot it.

Here's the Japanese equivalent for comparison, and even these look way more realistic. (https://www.google.com/search?q=japanese+earth+rise+moon+photo&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi68JvCxcnMAhXDZCYKHbaCC44Q_AUIBigB)

Apologies for being gone a couple days and not responding sooner. Anyway I'm upset that you took that sentence out of context. Seriously not cool.  Had you actually bothered to read my whole post you'd see that the gist of it is that reality sometimes looks fake. Instead you read the first sentence and quote it out of context to support your own arguement. That's kind of a dick move. It really is.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on May 10, 2016, 03:06:52 PM
I did read it all, thats why I made mention of your parallel line tangent that had absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

We are solely discussing whether or not it looks fake, as was my claim. It looks fake. Not discussing "could it be fake," or "a dozen ways it could it look fake and still be real."

Using my own eyes, and a lifetime of looking with them to accurately measure lengths and depths and differentiate between smooth, rough, and slippery surfaces, I've determined thatthis "photograph" is jarring and unrealistic.

I was forced to go into details about what should be obvious to anyone else with eyes, and even have a reason why it might look as fake as it does. All you did was try to go off on a tangent about optical illusions. Don't call me out for being a dick when I've already spent much more time debating this than I should have had to.

You can treat every graphic NASA puts out as accurate depiction of reality even after 40 years of self admitted doctoring, altering, interpreting, and even outright forging, but I choose not to.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: Randominput on May 10, 2016, 05:02:05 PM
*sigh* Look tge human eye is not reliable. There are countless optical illusions out there that can fool them. Make our brains see something that isn't there, see things in ways the really aren't. If You watch a car's wheel on the highway, they may look as if they are turning backwards. They aren't. Tgey appear this way because our eyes are physically limited. Our brain tries to fill in the gaps.
Again, given the right weather and lighting, even your local forest could look damn near fake.
I get what I'm saying can go both ways, and that's why I'm pissed about how you quoted me.

This whole damn thread is a useless moot point because you guys don't believe it despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. I hate these threads. They accomplish nothing for anyone entirely because this arguement goes both ways.

The human eye is honestly the least reliable tool of measurement. It is low res, low framerate, and easily tricked.

Looks fake, looks flat does not cut it. That toy car 2 inches from my face looks like a full-size SUV. Is it? No.
Is that image fake? Maybe. Have you provided compelling evidence to support this hypothesis? No. Do I have any reason to believe its fake then? No, not really.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on May 10, 2016, 05:17:02 PM
This whole damn thread is a useless moot point because you guys don't believe it despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. I hate these threads. They accomplish nothing for anyone entirely because this arguement goes both ways.

Where's the overwhelming evidence? Where? I see a hard to follow explanation and some video about an animation software. The fact that you start with a position assuming there is overwhelming evidence makes it a lot more difficult for you to have an objective point of view.

You may not want to rely on your eyes but, so far, I have never walked into a wall because I don't have depth perception. I have been able to accurately determine 3D space using my eyes and my brain combined. I have been able to determine whether or not I should walk on that shiny reflective surface through prior experience that it may be slippery.

(http://www.moillusions.com/wp-content/uploads/photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5639/2020/400/elephantlegs.gif)

Just because I can't tell how many legs this elephant has doesn't mean my eyes are useless. This was expertly crafted to fool your brain and your eyes. The problem with this NASA "photo" is that it does neither. It's obvious to me that it's not real. They did a terrible job of making the shadows accurately project according to a fixed light source. You would think after all the debacle over multiple sources of light and shadow angles in the Apollo photos they would learn by now how to fake it.

I don't need further analysis when it can't even pass the smell test.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on May 10, 2016, 06:09:47 PM
I have been able to determine whether or not I should walk on that shiny reflective surface through prior experience that it may be slippery.

Exactly how much prior experience do you have recognizing what the moon's surface looks like?

Quote
They did a terrible job of making the shadows accurately project according to a fixed light source.

I am still waiting for you to clarify which shadows are pointing the wrong way. Perhaps you missed my post talking about the shadows, since it was at the very bottom of the previous page?

Quote
I don't need further analysis when it can't even pass the smell test.

I'm sure it has served you well in the past, but most people aren't satisfied by your knee-jerk reaction analysis.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: Chris C on May 15, 2016, 11:18:00 PM
It is fake, the Earth is too close to the moon. The Earth should be as small as the moon looks from Earth.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: TotesNotReptilian on May 15, 2016, 11:29:58 PM
The Earth should be as small as the moon looks from Earth.

No it shouldn't. How did you come to this conclusion?
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: Chris C on May 16, 2016, 07:35:52 AM
The Earth should be as small as the moon looks from Earth.

No it shouldn't. How did you come to this conclusion?

Perhaps you are right. However,
(http://science.nasa.gov/media/medialibrary/2005/10/02/04oct_leonardo_resources/AS11-44-6551.jpg)
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet on May 16, 2016, 10:10:52 AM

It's all in the lenses Chris.

(http://www.popphoto.com/sites/popphoto.com/files/styles/large_1x_/public/moonsilhouettes.jpg?itok=EHAD-yHg)

Zoom lenses!
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: Chris C on May 16, 2016, 03:13:30 PM

It's all in the lenses Chris.

(http://www.popphoto.com/sites/popphoto.com/files/styles/large_1x_/public/moonsilhouettes.jpg?itok=EHAD-yHg)

Zoom lenses!

That picture has been doctored. The only thing that has been zoom is the moon.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: thatsnice on May 16, 2016, 03:18:43 PM

It's all in the lenses Chris.

(http://www.popphoto.com/sites/popphoto.com/files/styles/large_1x_/public/moonsilhouettes.jpg?itok=EHAD-yHg)

Zoom lenses!

That picture has been doctored. The only thing that has been zoom is the moon.

Orr... you just don't realize that the picture is from very far away.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: Chris C on May 16, 2016, 03:50:08 PM

It's all in the lenses Chris.

(http://www.popphoto.com/sites/popphoto.com/files/styles/large_1x_/public/moonsilhouettes.jpg?itok=EHAD-yHg)

Zoom lenses!

That picture has been doctored. The only thing that has been zoom is the moon.

Orr... you just don't realize that the picture is from very far away.

Very far away? Foreground is sharp , grass outlines are sharp. Moon super fuzzy. This is a spectacular picture, but it does not explain the NASA picture.  Both the foreground and background are equally sharp in the NASA picture, besides thats the first time i've ever seen a color picture from that rover... ( on top of that even I think it looks CGI) I'm a globe earthier. But it seems like NASA put out that picture to MOCK us.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: Rounder on May 17, 2016, 10:41:08 AM
Very far away? Foreground is sharp , grass outlines are sharp. Moon super fuzzy. This is a spectacular picture, but it does not explain the NASA picture.  Both the foreground and background are equally sharp in the NASA picture....

Moon is fuzzy in the earthbound photo because it is seen through miles and miles of atmospheric distortion.
Earth is sharp in the spaceborne photo because the moon has no atmosphere to introduce distortion.
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: rabinoz on May 17, 2016, 11:36:00 AM

It's all in the lenses Chris.

(http://www.popphoto.com/sites/popphoto.com/files/styles/large_1x_/public/moonsilhouettes.jpg?itok=EHAD-yHg)

Zoom lenses!

That picture has been doctored. The only thing that has been zoom is the moon.
I don't know about that one, but I believe this one is genuine:
(http://www.picturecorrect.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/full-moon-ET-photo-1-570x380.jpg)
From: How to Photograph a Silhouette in Front of a Giant Moon by Tiffany M (http://www.picturecorrect.com/tips/how-to-photograph-a-silhouette-in-front-of-a-giant-moon/)
Title: Re: Beautiful recent hi-res image of Earth from the moon
Post by: Venus on May 19, 2016, 02:21:20 AM
A related genre is the "I-don't-understand-why-this-piece-of-equipment-looks-this-way-therefore-fake" category. For a classic example, see this Wiki page:
http://wiki.tfes.org/A_Close_Look_at_the_Lunar_Lander (http://wiki.tfes.org/A_Close_Look_at_the_Lunar_Lander)

This photo is of LM 2 which was never used, it is now at the Smithsonian Institute in Washington and I went to see it in 1998 - and personally I thought it was awesome - even though we knew it hadn't actually been to the moon!
"LM 2 was built for a second unmanned Earth-orbit test flight. Because the test flight of LM 1, named Apollo 5, was so successful, a second mission was deemed unnecessary. LM-2 was used for ground testing prior to the first successful Moon-landing mission. "
Here is an excellent explanation of the photo above, but of course the FE'ers will keep their heads in the sand !! ... https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/5899/why-does-the-ascent-stage-of-apollo-11s-lunar-module-look-like-its-made-of-pap