The Flat Earth Society
Other Discussion Boards => Philosophy, Religion & Society => Topic started by: Rushy on February 24, 2016, 12:36:40 AM
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Seattle, WA recently passed an interesting new law as a man in Seattle was happy to point out. The rule allowed anyone who identified as the opposite sex to enter that opposite sex's changing rooms. This law's problem became apparent when the man entered the women's locker room and started changing. Since it is now illegal to remove him, any woman using the locker room would simply have to deal with their new changing buddy. Seattle has basically turned all of their locker rooms co-ed.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/02/17/transgender-rule-washington-state-man-undresses-locker-room/80501904/
At what point do you believe a person becomes transgender? Does it start when they undergo a physical change or do they simply have to be a "man stuck in a woman's body" or vice-verse? Shouldn't we just accept Starship Trooper style co-ed locker rooms and showers now? If women can like women and men can like men, I don't see why gendered locker rooms exist in the first place. Any arguments for or against them?
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I don't see a problem. Surely the left-wing liberals that run that city actually read and understood the law that they were passing, and not simply pushing it through purely on an emotional basis.
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Considering he didn't identify as a woman, I'm failing to see why he wasn't removed.
The fault here lies with enforcement, not the law itself.
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Considering he didn't identify as a woman, I'm failing to see why he wasn't removed.
The fault here lies with enforcement, not the law itself.
So all he really had to do as far as you're concerned was lie (assuming he doesn't in truth identify as a woman), and problem solved?
Why can't it just be understood that if she's in the women's locker room she identifies as a woman? Why should the poor gal be expected to be put in the humiliating position where she must defend her life choices on a constant basis? Must she have to explain every time she uses the restroom that she is a transgender and the law protects her right to use the ladies' room?
The intolerance. >o<
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I'm not against co-ed changing rooms.
I can't even take my boyfriend in a dressing room to see how an outfit looks. I have to come out of the room to parade an outfit just because he has a peen.
And I always thought that separate changing rooms were for people with all the same parts, not their mentality. Even if someone identifies as a woman, if they have all their man parts still then I think they should be going to men's rooms. I see it as no different than a super butch lesbian using the female rooms. But if they're going to make the law that lax where anyone can just lie about it then they should just go full co-ed and be done with it.
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There is no such thing as transgender (well there is but I'll clear that up in a sec and it is a very rare genetic condition).
Lets take Bruce Jenner. A man, a father who decides we wants to dress like a woman. A transvestite. At this point, not a transsexual. He then goes and has his nuts cut off. That's a eunuch. A castrated man in a dress. He then has some plastic surgery. That's Michael Jackson. He pumps himself full of hormones, that's a drug addict. None of these things change his sex in the slightest.
Every single cell in his body has an xy chromosome. It is male. He is male. Every brain cell, nerve, tissue all male. He is 100% male, albeit he has mutilated himself.
Now there are transsexuals. It is rare. Women have xx. Men have xy. Some unfortunate sods get xxy. If you get that, I think you should be able to pick which changing room you would like (you end up being very androgynous anyway). Anything else is just someone pretending to be something they are not. I can't enter the 3:15pm at Cheltenam with a jockey on my back because I'm not a horse. I can complain its my dream. I can say I feel like a horse and identify as a horse. I can have surgery to alter my ears and have fur implants and cosmetic dentistry to make me look more like a horse. I can eat winniepro and take horse hormones, I can crawl on all fours, sleep in a stable and wear a bridle. But I'm still not a horse, my dna will be human.
Transgender is bullshit, and anyone with xy chromosomes in a woman's changing room should be imprisoned for gross indecency.
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Transgender is bullshit, and anyone with xy chromosomes in a woman's changing room should be imprisoned for gross indecency.
Well this post was not unexpected from you, neither was your unwillingness to acknowledge that gender is not identified solely by physiology.
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Transgender is bullshit, and anyone with xy chromosomes in a woman's changing room should be imprisoned for gross indecency.
Well this post was not unexpected from you, neither was your unwillingness to acknowledge that gender is not identified solely by physiology.
Gender is physiological. Only a complete idiot would think gender is a state of mind. You can hope, dream, wish, want, believe and think you are a giant carrot. It doesn't make it so. Don't force me and everyone else to acknowledge and treat you like one. You aren't a carrot, you're just a mad guy who wants everyone to think he's a carrot accusing anyone who suggests that you aren't a healthy orange food type of being intolerant and a vegetablist. And here we are again, with another thread titled 'nutcase who thinks he is a carrot demanding rights for vegetables'.
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til gender is like vegetables or something
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Transgender is bullshit, and anyone with xy chromosomes in a woman's changing room should be imprisoned for gross indecency.
Well this post was not unexpected from you, neither was your unwillingness to acknowledge that gender is not identified solely by physiology.
Gender is physiological.
Medical science (https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/sex-gender-and-sexuality-its-complicated/) and the dictionary (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/gender) disagree with you.
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Regardless of Thork's inability to tell the difference between sex and gender, I believe co-ed locker rooms are the best option.
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I just don't understand modern society . A dude wants to pretend he's a chick and we're supposed to just play along, but a white chick wants to pretend she's black and she's a monster.
If a person can dictate his own gender despite the way he was born, why can't a person dictate her own race as well? Can a person choose to identify as a cat, and should we be expected to play along with that as well? Where do we draw the line exactly?
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Regardless of Thork's inability to tell the difference between sex and gender, I believe co-ed locker rooms are the best option.
I'd get to check out all the penii. Sounds good to me.
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I just don't understand modern society . A dude wants to pretend he's a chick and we're supposed to just play along, but a white chick wants to pretend she's black and she's a monster
If a person can dictate his own gender despite the way he was born, why can't a person dictate her own race as well?
Not sure, I would want to ask a doctor or psychologist. Personally, I am not a fan of identifying by race since it smacks of out-group mentality.
Can a person choose to identify as a cat, and should we be expected to play along with that as well? Where do we draw the line exactly?
I think they do and cease to be contributing members of society because of the lack of human language and genital licking. We give them a safe place to in a hospital to live out this existence.
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Thork, do you even know whether you're xx or xy? I know that I don't, I simply make assumptions based on my genitals and how I feel about my gender.
As for this case, I think that it would be fair to ask him, at the very least, what gender he identified as, especially if he presented no visible markers of being a woman. The law seems to state - from the article itself:
"As far as policy to protect everyone, Seattle Parks spokesman David Takami says they're still working on the issue. Right now, there's no specific protocol for how someone should demonstrate their gender in order to access a bathroom. Employees just rely on verbal identification or physical appearance, and this man offered neither."
This is an issue which just needs a little ironing out.
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Can we just have unisex toilets and change rooms already? I don't give a shit what's between the legs or inside the head of the person trying clothes on next to me. Quite frankly, when I'm in a change room I have more pressing matters on my mind.
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Transgender is bullshit, and anyone with xy chromosomes in a woman's changing room should be imprisoned for gross indecency.
Well this post was not unexpected from you, neither was your unwillingness to acknowledge that gender is not identified solely by physiology.
Gender is physiological. Only a complete idiot would think gender is a state of mind. You can hope, dream, wish, want, believe and think you are a giant carrot. It doesn't make it so. Don't force me and everyone else to acknowledge and treat you like one. You aren't a carrot, you're just a mad guy who wants everyone to think he's a carrot accusing anyone who suggests that you aren't a healthy orange food type of being intolerant and a vegetablist. And here we are again, with another thread titled 'nutcase who thinks he is a carrot demanding rights for vegetables'.
The brain also plays a role. Your DNA tells you what parts you have but your brain tells you what parts you should have and how to behave. Its like being gay: the wiring in your head that should tell you to be attracted to the opposite gender is crossed and you're attracted to the same sex.
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the wiring in your head that should tell you to be attracted to the opposite gender is crossed and you're attracted to the same sex.
So it's a defect.
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the wiring in your head that should tell you to be attracted to the opposite gender is crossed and you're attracted to the same sex.
So it's a defect.
Pretty much, yeah.
In the same way a heart murmur is. Or autism.
Doesn't make them any less human or deserving of respect, but its not how humans are supposed to be.
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the wiring in your head that should tell you to be attracted to the opposite gender is crossed and you're attracted to the same sex.
So it's a defect.
Pretty much, yeah.
In the same way a heart murmur is. Or autism.
Doesn't make them any less human or deserving of respect, but its not how humans are supposed to be.
Akexander the great exploited the biological imperative to improve men's survival instinct. Perhaps that sort of connection is the evolutionary value of homosexuality.
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the wiring in your head that should tell you to be attracted to the opposite gender is crossed and you're attracted to the same sex.
So it's a defect.
Yeah, and it's called Gender Dysmorphia. How it manifests in different people is different, some people can get through it with a little counselling, others are happy so long as they can 'present' in the manner of their 'true' gender, and others want to go through HRT and surgery.
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I'm not against co-ed changing rooms.
I can't even take my boyfriend in a dressing room to see how an outfit looks. I have to come out of the room to parade an outfit just because he has a peen.
I think that's to keep a public changing room free from intercourse more than a measure to separate the genders. Though, I could be wrong.
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I'm not against co-ed changing rooms.
I can't even take my boyfriend in a dressing room to see how an outfit looks. I have to come out of the room to parade an outfit just because he has a peen.
I think that's to keep a public changing room free from intercourse more than a measure to separate the genders. Though, I could be wrong.
That reason doesn't make any sense in a world where intercourse doesn't require the opposite gender.
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I'm not against co-ed changing rooms.
I can't even take my boyfriend in a dressing room to see how an outfit looks. I have to come out of the room to parade an outfit just because he has a peen.
I think that's to keep a public changing room free from intercourse more than a measure to separate the genders. Though, I could be wrong.
That reason doesn't make any sense in a world where intercourse doesn't require the opposite gender.
Making policies for the 95% is perfectly pragmatic. Outliers can be dealt with individually.
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Making policies for the 95% is perfectly pragmatic.
That's true, but not relevant. As you can see from the link in my opening posts, policies these days are being tailored to rare use cases.
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I don't see a need for this to be dealt with in law in the first place. Surely it's up to the individual stores who they allow into their changing rooms?
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I don't see a need for this to be dealt with in law in the first place. Surely it's up to the individual stores who they allow into their changing rooms?
If you had read the article you would have known that the law affects public changing rooms at park and pool facilities.
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the wiring in your head that should tell you to be attracted to the opposite gender is crossed and you're attracted to the same sex.
So it's a defect.
Yeah, and it's called Gender Dysmorphia.
I have felt for a long time that it is disgusting how the gay community is treated in Western nations. I'm glad you agree.
For how long do people's entire lives have to be ruined before they can get medical treatment to correct these defects? Psychotherapy, genital aversion therapy for the same sex, forced cold turkey with isolation camps, supra-natural doses of hormones, psychoactive drugs, there are so many things we can try so save gays from this awful affliction. But instead we tell them you're fine, be proud you have this problem, go out and indulge this. It is absolutely disgusting people in need are treated like this. The sooner homosexuality is treated as a mental health issue, the sooner real research can be conducted to find a cure. This is the exact same with most mental health issues in the West. They are swept under the carpet. Homosexuality destroys lives in so many ways. There is the social stigma, the damage it causes to families through embarrassment and disgrace, a prevalent suicide rate, a high STD transmission rate and the total destruction of any real chance of a happy biological family. The media is extremely culpable is trying to 'normalise' this tragic disease, harassing and hounding anyone who speaks out that these people need help. Gays are persecuted by the media and prevented from getting the treatment they deserve.
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the wiring in your head that should tell you to be attracted to the opposite gender is crossed and you're attracted to the same sex.
So it's a defect.
Yeah, and it's called Gender Dysmorphia.
I have felt for a long time that it is disgusting how the gay community is treated in Western nations. I'm glad you agree.
For how long do people's entire lives have to be ruined before they can get medical treatment to correct these defects? Psychotherapy, genital aversion therapy for the same sex, forced cold turkey with isolation camps, supra-natural doses of hormones, psychoactive drugs, there are so many things we can try so save gays from this awful affliction. But instead we tell them you're fine, be proud you have this problem, go out and indulge this. It is absolutely disgusting people in need are treated like this. The sooner homosexuality is treated as a mental health issue, the sooner real research can be conducted to find a cure. This is the exact same with most mental health issues in the West. They are swept under the carpet. Homosexuality destroys lives in so many ways. There is the social stigma, the damage it causes to families through embarrassment and disgrace, a prevalent suicide rate, a high STD transmission rate and the total destruction of any real chance of a happy biological family. The media is extremely culpable is trying to 'normalise' this tragic disease, harassing and hounding anyone who speaks out that these people need help. Gays are persecuted by the media and prevented from getting the treatment they deserve.
Homosexuals are not gender dysmorphic.
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I'm not against co-ed changing rooms.
I can't even take my boyfriend in a dressing room to see how an outfit looks. I have to come out of the room to parade an outfit just because he has a peen.
I think that's to keep a public changing room free from intercourse more than a measure to separate the genders. Though, I could be wrong.
Right, but that's absolutely ridiculous and still is the assumption that made the laws in the first place. Because they assume people of opposite genders can't be in the same room, in a state of undress, and not have sex.
If we were insatiable rabbits, we'd definitely find a way to have sex in their store.
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nb4 thork declares that the gays would all be better off dead
just say it and get it over with and stop pretending you feel any differently
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What are you talking about? He said he wants them to be cured. Death is not a cure.
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What are you talking about? He said he wants them to be cured. Death is not a cure.
ok. sure.
nb4...stop pretending...
key words
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How do you know he's pretending? This is Th*rk. He's convinced everything he says is right.
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How do you know he's pretending? This is Th*rk. He's convinced everything he says is right.
i think he's convinced he's right being gay or transgendered is somehow bad, but i think every justification he proffers other than "because gay people gross me out" is just a justification he contrives for the benefit of others, not because he actually believes it. fuck, i dunno, maybe he is actually retarded enough to worry about 'but wat if i saiyd i was a carrott hahaha ima carrot now tbqh.'
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I think Thork is disgusted with himself and just wants people to stop telling him to be himself and actually treat his "problem". Based on previous posts this might be because he's afraid of the AIDS.
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Thork, can we stay on topic?
Gay !=Trans
Trans != Gay
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Are transgenders even discriminated against? Is this a civil rights thing? Other than thinking it's a little odd, I don't think society at large actively wants to oppress trans people.
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I haven't really read this thread all that closely, but I'm definitely with Thork on this one.
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Are transgenders even discriminated against? Is this a civil rights thing? Other than thinking it's a little odd, I don't think society at large actively wants to oppress trans people.
Hooh boy, whether or not 'society' has actively decided to discriminate against Trans people, it's clear that they do face disproportionate discrimination, whether it's violence:
"When combining all three forms of violence reporting it becomes clear that among transgender people, known others are physically and sexually assaulting transgender people at high rates, and strangers are physically and sexually assaulting transgender people, but also harassing them and causing other types of violence and abuse. These acts of violence are not single incidents, but happen across a lifetime, and often a single individual experiences multiple acts of violence or intolerance on a daily basis." - [1]
Or employment and housing:
"▪▪ Double the rate of unemployment: Survey respondents experience unemployment at twice the rate of
the population as a whole.
▪▪ Near universal harassment on the job: Ninety-seven percent (97%) of those surveyed reported
experiencing harassment or mistreatment on the job.
▪▪ Significant losses of jobs and careers: Forty-seven percent (47%) had experienced an adverse job outcome,
such as being fired, not hired or denied a promotion.
▪▪ High rates of poverty: Fifteen percent (15%) of transgender people in our sample lived on $10,000 per
year or less–double the rate of the general population.
▪▪ Significant housing instability: Nineteen percent (19%) of our sample have been or are homeless, 11%
have faced eviction and 26% were forced to seek temporary space." - [2]
[1] - http://faculty.mu.edu.sa/public/uploads/1425310920.5389violence%20transgender.pdf
[2] - http://www.thetaskforce.org/static_html/downloads/reports/fact_sheets/transsurvey_prelim_findings.pdf
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There have been several arrests of men claiming to be transgender that were caught filming women.
Let me know how you feel when it happens to your wife, daughter or grand daughter.
I hope these cities are suited into oblivion the it happens in their city.
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There have beeb several arrests of men claiming to be transgender that were caught filming women.
Let me know how you feel when it happens to your wife, daughter or grand daughter.
I hope these cities are suited into oblivion the it happens in their city.
Filming in a bathroom is illegal for everyone. Not sure why you think this law makes it easier. Hell, NC just passed a law that made it easier. I'll demonstrate.
*walks into ladies room*
"Hi, sorry, born a woman. Can I watch you pee?"
Also, question:
Have you ever BEEN inside a woman's bathroom? Ever peeked in one when no one was there?
Well I have and let me tell you, there's nothing but stalls and toilets. No urinals. In fact, unless a woman undresses by the sink, they aren't going to show anything they won't show when they walk out the door so, pray tell, what were these horrible men filming?
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There have beeb several arrests of men claiming to be transgender that were caught filming women.
Let me know how you feel when it happens to your wife, daughter or grand daughter.
I hope these cities are suited into oblivion the it happens in their city.
Filming in a bathroom is illegal for everyone. Not sure why you think this law makes it easier. Hell, NC just passed a law that made it easier. I'll demonstrate.
*walks into ladies room*
"Hi, sorry, born a woman. Can I watch you pee?"
Also, question:
Have you ever BEEN inside a woman's bathroom? Ever peeked in one when no one was there?
Well I have and let me tell you, there's nothing but stalls and toilets. No urinals. In fact, unless a woman undresses by the sink, they aren't going to show anything they won't show when they walk out the door so, pray tell, what were these horrible men filming?
They are filming from under and over the stall walls.
Now tell me how this protects women in changing rooms and locker rooms.
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There have beeb several arrests of men claiming to be transgender that were caught filming women.
Let me know how you feel when it happens to your wife, daughter or grand daughter.
I hope these cities are suited into oblivion the it happens in their city.
Filming in a bathroom is illegal for everyone. Not sure why you think this law makes it easier. Hell, NC just passed a law that made it easier. I'll demonstrate.
*walks into ladies room*
"Hi, sorry, born a woman. Can I watch you pee?"
Also, question:
Have you ever BEEN inside a woman's bathroom? Ever peeked in one when no one was there?
Well I have and let me tell you, there's nothing but stalls and toilets. No urinals. In fact, unless a woman undresses by the sink, they aren't going to show anything they won't show when they walk out the door so, pray tell, what were these horrible men filming?
They are filming from under and over the stall walls.
Now tell me how this protects women in changing rooms and locker rooms.
So the gender of the person is irrelevant as they're hidden anyway. Gotcha.
As for locker rooms, well, what's stopping a man from walking in now?
What's stopping a woman from walking in and taking pictures/video?
Finally:
Same point as before, the North Carolina law requiring people to use their birth gender's "room" means that any man can walk into a woman's bathroom without even changing clothing.
I think the problem here is that you are assuming that it's easy for a man to pretend to gender identify as a woman. Can they dress up? Sure but they could do that before so it's not really anything different.
But I don't think transgender people make a habit of walking into a bathroom or locker room they can't pass in. So a transman won't go into the men's locker room if they still have their breasts or they look/sound like a woman. But they would likely go into the woman's locker room just to avoid the stares.
Plus, the point is to avoid it being illegal if said trans is caught in the "wrong" room. Filming is still very much illegal regardless of gender.
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There have beeb several arrests of men claiming to be transgender that were caught filming women.
Let me know how you feel when it happens to your wife, daughter or grand daughter.
I hope these cities are suited into oblivion the it happens in their city.
Filming in a bathroom is illegal for everyone. Not sure why you think this law makes it easier. Hell, NC just passed a law that made it easier. I'll demonstrate.
*walks into ladies room*
"Hi, sorry, born a woman. Can I watch you pee?"
Also, question:
Have you ever BEEN inside a woman's bathroom? Ever peeked in one when no one was there?
Well I have and let me tell you, there's nothing but stalls and toilets. No urinals. In fact, unless a woman undresses by the sink, they aren't going to show anything they won't show when they walk out the door so, pray tell, what were these horrible men filming?
They are filming from under and over the stall walls.
Now tell me how this protects women in changing rooms and locker rooms.
So the gender of the person is irrelevant as they're hidden anyway. Gotcha.
As for locker rooms, well, what's stopping a man from walking in now?
What's stopping a woman from walking in and taking pictures/video?
Finally:
Same point as before, the North Carolina law requiring people to use their birth gender's "room" means that any man can walk into a woman's bathroom without even changing clothing.
I think the problem here is that you are assuming that it's easy for a man to pretend to gender identify as a woman. Can they dress up? Sure but they could do that before so it's not really anything different.
But I don't think transgender people make a habit of walking into a bathroom or locker room they can't pass in. So a transman won't go into the men's locker room if they still have their breasts or they look/sound like a woman. But they would likely go into the woman's locker room just to avoid the stares.
Plus, the point is to avoid it being illegal if said trans is caught in the "wrong" room. Filming is still very much illegal regardless of gender.
So letting the fox INTO the hen house is okay. Its only AFTER the fox starts killing the chickens that there is a problem. Got it.
Not a husband, father or grand father are you?
http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/04/26/pennsylvania-man-allegedly-spied-little-girl-public-bathroom-charged-child-porn
That thing between your ears? It has mores uses than just to hold your ears apart or to keep your eyes from rolling down to your toes, if you look up.
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What's the point of posting that story? Are you saying that guy would have gotten away with filming a little girl if he had been transgender, or dressed as a woman? He wouldn't have.
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There have beeb several arrests of men claiming to be transgender that were caught filming women.
Let me know how you feel when it happens to your wife, daughter or grand daughter.
I hope these cities are suited into oblivion the it happens in their city.
Filming in a bathroom is illegal for everyone. Not sure why you think this law makes it easier. Hell, NC just passed a law that made it easier. I'll demonstrate.
*walks into ladies room*
"Hi, sorry, born a woman. Can I watch you pee?"
Also, question:
Have you ever BEEN inside a woman's bathroom? Ever peeked in one when no one was there?
Well I have and let me tell you, there's nothing but stalls and toilets. No urinals. In fact, unless a woman undresses by the sink, they aren't going to show anything they won't show when they walk out the door so, pray tell, what were these horrible men filming?
They are filming from under and over the stall walls.
Now tell me how this protects women in changing rooms and locker rooms.
So the gender of the person is irrelevant as they're hidden anyway. Gotcha.
As for locker rooms, well, what's stopping a man from walking in now?
What's stopping a woman from walking in and taking pictures/video?
Finally:
Same point as before, the North Carolina law requiring people to use their birth gender's "room" means that any man can walk into a woman's bathroom without even changing clothing.
I think the problem here is that you are assuming that it's easy for a man to pretend to gender identify as a woman. Can they dress up? Sure but they could do that before so it's not really anything different.
But I don't think transgender people make a habit of walking into a bathroom or locker room they can't pass in. So a transman won't go into the men's locker room if they still have their breasts or they look/sound like a woman. But they would likely go into the woman's locker room just to avoid the stares.
Plus, the point is to avoid it being illegal if said trans is caught in the "wrong" room. Filming is still very much illegal regardless of gender.
So letting the fox INTO the hen house is okay. Its only AFTER the fox starts killing the chickens that there is a problem. Got it.
Not a husband, father or grand father are you?
http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/04/26/pennsylvania-man-allegedly-spied-little-girl-public-bathroom-charged-child-porn
That thing between your ears? It has mores uses than just to hold your ears apart or to keep your eyes from rolling down to your toes, if you look up.
That IS how laws work, yes. You aren't arrested for "maybe going to comitt a crime".
I am a father.
Also, how does that story help your case? A man was in the woman's bathroom for an hour, all without gender laws or identifying as a woman. All you've proven is that transgender laws won't change things.
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What's the point of posting that story? Are you saying that guy would have gotten away with filming a little girl if he had been transgender, or dressed as a woman? He wouldn't have.
Seriously? That little girl would not have paid as much attention to what she would thing is as just another female. Do have have kids please. It would be cruel to them
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What's the point of posting that story? Are you saying that guy would have gotten away with filming a little girl if he had been transgender, or dressed as a woman? He wouldn't have.
Seriously? That little girl would not have paid as much attention to what she would thing is as just another female. Do have have kids please. It would be cruel to them
Its a good thing its so hard for someone to look like another gender....
Oh wait...
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Won't someone please think of the children.
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Won't someone please think of the children.
Thank you.
And I'm done on this thread. Too many freaks here. Scary