The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Theory => Topic started by: Earthisround on February 13, 2016, 05:52:44 PM

Title: gravity
Post by: Earthisround on February 13, 2016, 05:52:44 PM
As stated in the FAQ, the force know as gravity doesnt exist, rather what we feel as gravity is the force of the earth accelerating at a rate of 32ft/s/s. If this is the case, how is it that we do not feel an increased force of gravity every second because of the earth's acceleration?
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: Woody on February 13, 2016, 07:26:52 PM
You would be accelerating at the same rate.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: Roundy on February 13, 2016, 07:30:51 PM
Please look up the Equivalence Principle, it should answer any questions you might have of this nature.  It was Einstein who said that the effect of gravity was equivalent to that of a constant acceleration, not us.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: Earthisround on February 13, 2016, 08:46:15 PM
thanks for the answers, I was confused about this
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: rabinoz on February 14, 2016, 11:30:35 PM
Please look up the Equivalence Principle, it should answer any questions you might have of this nature.  It was Einstein who said that the effect of gravity was equivalent to that of a constant acceleration, not us.
Yes, I have looked up the Equivalence Principle in the Wiki and elsewhere and maintain that it cannot be legitimately applied to the whole earth.

The article at this website http://worldnpa.org/abstracts/abstracts_6546.pdf (http://worldnpa.org/abstracts/abstracts_6546.pdf)
is really a very telling article on the Equivalence Principle and should be read before anyone criticises too severely what I put here.

In its simplest from the FET uses the Equivalence Principle to replace the gravitational field observed on the earth's surface.  I contend that this is not a valid application of the Equivalence Principle.

Quote
we [...] assume the complete physical equivalence of a gravitational field and a corresponding acceleration of the reference system.
— Einstein, 1907
This very brief statement of Einstein needs a little qualification.  If the reference system under consideration is not small enough for the gravitational field to be considered constant over its range then there can be no complete physical equivalence.

This is stressed in the fuller presentation of the Equivalence Principle.
Quote from: Importance of the Equivalence Principle
An equivalent formulation of the Principle of Equivalence is that at any local (that is, sufficiently small) region in spacetime it is possible to formulate the equations governing physical laws such that the effect of gravitation can be neglected. This in turn means that the Special Theory of Relativity is valid for that particular situation, and this in turn allows a number of things to be deduced because the solution of the equations for the Special Theory of Relativity is beyond the scope of our course, but is not particularly difficult for those trained in the required mathematics.  from http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect/cosmology/equivalence.html (http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect/cosmology/equivalence.html)
In the case of the earth we can readily measure variations in the gravitational field.  The most obvious is due to altitude and latitude, but there are more subtle variations due to the presence of ore bodies as used in gravimetric surveys for minerals.

As a result this, the concept of Universal Acceleration can replace a gravitational field only if the reference system (the whole earth) is sufficiently small for the gravitational field to be considered constant over the whole system.

This is clearly not satisfied, so the concept of Universal Acceleration cannot be be used to replace the gravitational field.
 and shows quite clearly that UA is simply an invalid substitute for the observed "gravitational field".

I know that TFES attributes these variations to the "gravitational effects of the celestial bodies", as in:
Quote from: The Wiki, Tidal Effects
Q: Why does gravity vary with altitude?
A: The moon and stars have a slight gravitational pull.
but this cannot be the cause because these bodies are in constant motion above the earth, yet the variations in  the observed "gravitational field" because these variations are essentially stationary - being due to altitude, latitude and the proximity of massive ore bodies, etc.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: juner on February 15, 2016, 12:06:02 AM
This is clearly not satisfied, so the concept of Universal Acceleration cannot be be used to replace the gravitational field.
 and shows quite clearly that UA is simply an invalid substitute for the observed "gravitational field".

You say this, but are unable to provide any actual proof of the claim beyond just those words. Nothing in your post proves counter to FET. Better luck next time.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: rabinoz on February 15, 2016, 02:38:24 AM
This is clearly not satisfied, so the concept of Universal Acceleration cannot be be used to replace the gravitational field.
 and shows quite clearly that UA is simply an invalid substitute for the observed "gravitational field".

You say this, but are unable to provide any actual proof of the claim beyond just those words. Nothing in your post proves counter to FET. Better luck next time.
So, what are you challenging?
It seems that Flat Earth supporters simply see the earth as flat. Then every other observation is bent to fit this initial premise without independent evidence.

No, I don't need any luck.

In Rowbotham's day the idea of gravity did not fit with his flat earth, so he denies gravity[2] and proposes UA. Now we find problems with that and those holes get papered over without any evidence that these explanations actually explain the variations found.

[1] I say "almost" because even on the globe earth the sun and moon cause extremely slight variations - about 0.52×10−7 g and 1.1×10−7 g resp!

[2] Rowbotham denies Newton's gravity, even though Cavendish had independently verified the effect. Since then hundreds of others have performed similar experiments (I have the results of some 61 of these) and well justified Cavendish's result. Rowbotham and other FE proponents attempt to discredit bt ridicule any contrary evidence.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: Roundy on February 15, 2016, 02:54:07 AM
Please look up the Equivalence Principle, it should answer any questions you might have of this nature.  It was Einstein who said that the effect of gravity was equivalent to that of a constant acceleration, not us.
Yes, I have looked up the Equivalence Principle in the Wiki and elsewhere and maintain that it cannot be legitimately applied to the whole earth.

Irrelevant.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: rabinoz on February 15, 2016, 08:30:03 AM
Please look up the Equivalence Principle, it should answer any questions you might have of this nature.  It was Einstein who said that the effect of gravity was equivalent to that of a constant acceleration, not us.
Yes, I have looked up the Equivalence Principle in the Wiki and elsewhere and maintain that it cannot be legitimately applied to the whole earth.
Irrelevant.
You say it's irrelevant, but if the gravitational field across the earth is not constant then, with or without the EP, UA cannot ne used to replace gravity, unless you have justifiable reasons for those deviations. Just remember that I was describing only the most obvious "g" variations - there are many more to consider.

Yes, a few facts are quite irrelevant to the Flat Earth! You see the earth looks flat, then change everything else to suit!
Things like: perspective, massive refraction, impossible magnification in the atmosphere, etc, etc!
Then declare any photos and other evidence that goes against the  Flat Earth as fake or lies!
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: Roundy on February 15, 2016, 06:45:20 PM
Please look up the Equivalence Principle, it should answer any questions you might have of this nature.  It was Einstein who said that the effect of gravity was equivalent to that of a constant acceleration, not us.
Yes, I have looked up the Equivalence Principle in the Wiki and elsewhere and maintain that it cannot be legitimately applied to the whole earth.
Irrelevant.
You say it's irrelevant, but if the gravitational field across the earth is not constant then, with or without the EP, UA cannot ne used to replace gravity, unless you have justifiable reasons for those deviations. Just remember that I was describing only the most obvious "g" variations - there are many more to consider.

Yes, a few facts are quite irrelevant to the Flat Earth! You see the earth looks flat, then change everything else to suit!
Things like: perspective, massive refraction, impossible magnification in the atmosphere, etc, etc!
Then declare any photos and other evidence that goes against the  Flat Earth as fake or lies!

It was irrelevant to the OP's question, which had nothing at all to do with variations in g over the surface of the Earth.  I wasn't defending Flat Earth Theory with my response, I was merely answering his question.  If you have something irrelevant to that question that you think is worthy of debate you should probably take it to the proper board.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: Earthisround on February 15, 2016, 07:41:18 PM
Please look up the Equivalence Principle, it should answer any questions you might have of this nature.  It was Einstein who said that the effect of gravity was equivalent to that of a constant acceleration, not us.
Yes, I have looked up the Equivalence Principle in the Wiki and elsewhere and maintain that it cannot be legitimately applied to the whole earth.
Irrelevant.
You say it's irrelevant, but if the gravitational field across the earth is not constant then, with or without the EP, UA cannot ne used to replace gravity, unless you have justifiable reasons for those deviations. Just remember that I was describing only the most obvious "g" variations - there are many more to consider.

Yes, a few facts are quite irrelevant to the Flat Earth! You see the earth looks flat, then change everything else to suit!
Things like: perspective, massive refraction, impossible magnification in the atmosphere, etc, etc!
Then declare any photos and other evidence that goes against the  Flat Earth as fake or lies!

It was irrelevant to the OP's question, which had nothing at all to do with variations in g over the surface of the Earth.  I wasn't defending Flat Earth Theory with my response, I was merely answering his question.  If you have something irrelevant to that question that you think is worthy of debate you should probably take it to the proper board.

While It was irrelevant to my original question, he was not discussing it at that time, rather discussing something with Junker. From what I can gather (from experience) some FEers seem to lead someone off topic, and come in saying that it is irrelevant to the original question, which is something Junker does a lot with me, instead of answering the questions asked.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on February 19, 2016, 07:45:46 PM
I've been looking into buoyancy a little bit... and it seems odd that most people accept that in liquid something with less density will be "pushed" to the top... but can't seem to accept that things behave in a similar manner if submerged in a gas (our atmosphere)
Why Gravity ever was postulated seems extraneous to describe the phenomenon we feel as a solid in liquids and gases
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: rabinoz on February 20, 2016, 05:28:09 AM
I've been looking into buoyancy a little bit... and it seems odd that most people accept that in liquid something with less density will be "pushed" to the top... but can't seem to accept that things behave in a similar manner if submerged in a gas (our atmosphere)
Why Gravity ever was postulated seems extraneous to describe the phenomenon we feel as a solid in liquids and gases
This does not explain the greatly varying weights of objects of exactly the same size.

This a bit from my previous quote with a line added:
Another example.  Suppose we have 4 identical cube shaped blocks of 10 cm each side made of 4 different metals.  The following table gives the mass of air for that volume and the masses (and weights) in kilograms:
Material   
Mass of 0.001 m3  Weight when in air
Air   
0.0012 kg     --   
Magnesium   
1.80 kg   1.799 kg
Steel   
7.85 kg   7.849 kg
Lead   
11.37 kg  11.369 kg
Gold   
19.36 kg  19.359 kg
Then of course we find that the weight of any of these blocks actually increases if they are weighed in a chamber with very low air pressure.  Yes, we find that increase is 1.2 g! 
No, it's no co-incidence - just old Archimedes popping up again!
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: juner on February 20, 2016, 04:03:36 PM

old Archimedes popping up again!

The same Archimedes who miscalculated the RET circumference of the earth by thousands of miles? Is that who you are really using to defend your stance?
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: Earthisround on February 21, 2016, 01:46:58 PM

old Archimedes popping up again!

The same Archimedes who miscalculated the RET circumference of the earth by thousands of miles? Is that who you are really using to defend your stance?

I don't think that you realize how old and primitive the equipment they were using to measure it was, and how they using the sun and some math to calculate it, not to mention they surprising amount of variables they had to deal with. For a calculation in Archimedes' time, it was very accurate.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: Woody on February 21, 2016, 07:48:06 PM

old Archimedes popping up again!

The same Archimedes who miscalculated the RET circumference of the earth by thousands of miles? Is that who you are really using to defend your stance?

He was 1% or 15% off depending on which standard of the stadion is used.  Even 15% off for the technology he had available still means he did a pretty good job.

Title: Re: gravity
Post by: Pete Svarrior on February 21, 2016, 09:18:15 PM
Isn't it amazing how low people's standards get when they're asked to evaluate someone they like?

"No, honey, of course you're not fat."
"No, Archimedes, of course your estimations weren't wildly inaccurate."
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: Earthisround on February 22, 2016, 08:31:28 PM
Again, I dont think that you understand how old and inaccurate their equipment was. Archimedes was born in 287 BC and died in 212 BC, over 2000 years ago! The equipment he had on hand compared to the equipment we have today would be like trying to zoom in on the moon with a magnifying glass, rather than using the Hubble space telescope to do it. The fact that we praise him for getting such an accurate estimate for his time does not mean that we praise him because we like him, but because we see how intelligent he was by being able to calculate the earths circumference with such accuracy.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on February 22, 2016, 08:45:59 PM
Again, I dont think that you understand how old and inaccurate their equipment was. Archimedes was born in 287 BC and died in 212 BC, over 2000 years ago! The equipment he had on hand compared to the equipment we have today would be like trying to zoom in on the moon with a magnifying glass, rather than using the Hubble space telescope to do it. The fact that we praise him for getting such an accurate estimate for his time does not mean that we praise him because we like him, but because we see how intelligent he was by being able to calculate the earths circumference with such accuracy.

What equipment do we have today to measure the Earth's Circumference?
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: juner on February 22, 2016, 09:03:04 PM

Again, I dont think that you understand how old and inaccurate their equipment was. Archimedes was born in 287 BC and died in 212 BC, over 2000 years ago! The equipment he had on hand compared to the equipment we have today would be like trying to zoom in on the moon with a magnifying glass, rather than using the Hubble space telescope to do it. The fact that we praise him for getting such an accurate estimate for his time does not mean that we praise him because we like him, but because we see how intelligent he was by being able to calculate the earths circumference with such accuracy.

But Eratosthenes was born a decade after Archimedes and managed to get it "right." Apparently they made incredible improvements in that generation, but none in the following 2000 years...
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: Earthisround on February 22, 2016, 11:15:39 PM
They both were off by some margin of error, but they were both surprisingly accurate for that time. We have made incredible improvements in technology in that field of science in the next 2000 years, like satellites that can measure the earth's circumference, etc.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on February 23, 2016, 04:57:54 PM
They both were off by some margin of error, but they were both surprisingly accurate for that time. We have made incredible improvements in technology in that field of science in the next 2000 years, like satellites that can measure the earth's circumference, etc.

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2006-08/1155321706.Es.r.html

The method is still the same. Except we claim to use "satellites" now instead of land based instruments, which really seems like a waste of energy and money.

As advanced as you think we've become in 2000 years, I'm just trying to let you take into perspective how germ theory didn't come around until the 19th century. There was a massive period of human existence where the Catholic Church controlled every bit of knowledge and education available, that happened in those 2000 years. What it appears to me, is that "Science" is basically trying to take the place of the Church, in keeping people in the dark as much as possible. With black holes, dark matter, etc its all slight of hand. NASA tells us that hey gravity works after all, we have a satellite 1 million miles from Earth, but it is nothing more than a display of authority. "They" take the "knowledge" and horde it while giving us this dog and pony show.

So you might think we've truly advanced, but have we really? It is human nature to feel that we are at a pinnacle when we could be anywhere along the hill, for all we know. There is still so much more to learn about life itself, Mankind's true origins, but instead we waste our time measuring space, with ancient techniques mangled into abomination with abstract mathematics.

As long as we trust people supposedly smarter than us, wiser than us to do the thinking for us human consciousness will never evolve, instead we are stuck in this modern day version of the dark ages where ignorance is king.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: Earthisround on February 23, 2016, 08:30:12 PM

The method is still the same. Except we claim to use "satellites" now instead of land based instruments, which really seems like a waste of energy and money.

If you're putting satellites in quotations because you think they are fake, then you are wrong, because if you go outside on a clear night with a pair of binoculars, you can see the ISS moving around the sky every 90 minutes. If we can build that in space, then we can definitely put satellites with various different types of equipment

As advanced as you think we've become in 2000 years, I'm just trying to let you take into perspective how germ theory didn't come around until the 19th century.

Thats because they had no way to detect and find bacteria and viruses until someone could develop a microscope powerful enough to see them. By the way, aa ancient greek scientist, whose name I cant remember (sorry), had proposed the idea that illnesses could be caused by tiny little things, bacteria, but he had no way to prove it, and people ridiculed him, because it was like saying ants can kill elephants.

There was a massive period of human existence where the Catholic Church controlled every bit of knowledge and education available, that happened in those 2000 years. What it appears to me, is that "Science" is basically trying to take the place of the Church, in keeping people in the dark as much as possible.

During that period, the church controlled the knowledge because it wanted power, and the first thing you do to keep power is to not let your people read, and they were pretty good at that. Science is the opposite of what the church was doing, bringing us into the light by being able to prove things that most poeple used faith to explain. Denying science is just ignorant.

With black holes, dark matter, etc its all slight of hand. NASA tells us that hey gravity works after all, we have a satellite 1 million miles from Earth, but it is nothing more than a display of authority. "They" take the "knowledge" and horde it while giving us this dog and pony show.

And like everyone on this forum who says that it is all fake, you have no evidence to support it, while there is evidence that we've detected of black holes through gravitational lensing, and dark matter is still a theory, one which fills in the gaps that physicists couldn't explain, that's why people generally accept it as true, but the existence of it has not yet been confirmed as far as I'm aware.

So you might think we've truly advanced, but have we really? It is human nature to feel that we are at a pinnacle when we could be anywhere along the hill, for all we know. There is still so much more to learn about life itself, Mankind's true origins, but instead we waste our time measuring space, with ancient techniques mangled into abomination with abstract mathematics.

While you're right that it is human nature to think like that, the scientists and engineers that work on this realize that we have not even come close to being as intelligent about the universe as we can be, that's why we have new technology coming out every year, because they know they can do better and they try to do it.

As long as we trust people supposedly smarter than us, wiser than us to do the thinking for us human consciousness will never evolve, instead we are stuck in this modern day version of the dark ages where ignorance is king.

Ignorance is king simply because of people like you, who choose to ignore the science presented to them and go on believing things that are mere speculations. That, or they simply do not understand what they hear because it is too complex for them, and instead of trying to understand it, they ignore it and think it's bad because there's big words that they dont know what they mean, which is what you see with those idiots who choose not to vaccinate their kids.

Also, when you post a link with information, my advice would be to get that information from a reputable source, like from a college, or a respected organization, even if the info is correct, so as to minimize chance of someone trying to refute what you say by stating that your source is not reliable.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on February 23, 2016, 09:56:45 PM
Have you ever taken a pair of binoculars and looked at the ISS? Or are you just sure that you can because you heard you can? Regardless of whether you can or can not see something in the sky with binoculars, the point is, I can almost guarantee you didn't try to do it.

The similarities between the Church in the Dark Ages and the authoritative institutions in our time are striking. They both attempt to control the flow of knowledge, through censorship and indoctrination, and the goal in this is still ultimately power and maintaining it.

"Science" as you keep referencing isn't an actual thing... it is a method to examine phenomena. Nothing more nothing less-- it doesn't "prove" anything, as everything is subject to future findings. Now don't forget that many of the scientists of the dark ages were actually employed by the church. Just as there are many that are employed by NASA, NOAA, ESA, etc today. I am not denying "science" as you put, but I don't just read space.com or watch Cosmos and take what they say for Gospel... can't you see that's just as absurd as the peasants gobbling up everything their Priest told them in the past?

I am not here to convince you one way or the other, of anything, but to accuse me of spreading ignorance because I'm looking at concepts long thought "disproven" by "modern" science with an open yet critical mind, is insulting to me.

Ignorance is king because no one likes to think for themselves anymore. Apathy is crown prince because even when clearly shown evidence contrary to a popular belief it is ignored because it's much more convenient to trust those in power to actually give you the truth.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: Earthisround on February 24, 2016, 01:51:57 AM
Have you ever taken a pair of binoculars and looked at the ISS? Or are you just sure that you can because you heard you can? Regardless of whether you can or can not see something in the sky with binoculars, the point is, I can almost guarantee you didn't try to do it.

That is irrelevant wether I have tried it or not, but in another thread you can see pictures someone took of the ISS through binoculars. But it is beside the point.

The similarities between the Church in the Dark Ages and the authoritative institutions in our time are striking. They both attempt to control the flow of knowledge, through censorship and indoctrination, and the goal in this is still ultimately power and maintaining it.

Institutions and organizations like NASA and the ESA are not concerned with power and they are most certainly not controlling the flow of knowledge with anything. If you mean to say that what they do is refute false evidence and claims then that is just looking out for the well being of the general population. When you spread false information like this, you are being harmful, believe what you want, but what this place is doing is more like indoctrination the what these "authoritative institutions" are doing.

"Science" as you keep referencing isn't an actual thing... it is a method to examine phenomena. Nothing more nothing less-- it doesn't "prove" anything, as everything is subject to future findings. Now don't forget that many of the scientists of the dark ages were actually employed by the church. Just as there are many that are employed by NASA, NOAA, ESA, etc today. I am not denying "science" as you put, but I don't just read space.com or watch Cosmos and take what they say for Gospel... can't you see that's just as absurd as the peasants gobbling up everything their Priest told them in the past?

Science comes from a latin root, if I am not mistaken, which means to know. Science is the quest to find out the mysteries of the natural world, so yes it is a thing, and it most certainly does prove everything. Science tells us why the moon has less gravity than earth, science tells us what nutrients are in the apple you ate this morning, etc. saying it doesn't prove anything is just ignorant (sorry), but science evolves in time and we become smarter and are able to discover new things and disprove old theories. As for those TV shows, that's why we have the internet. With the internet you can cross reference information from different reputable sources, and trust me, if one of the greatest physicists in the world is telling you something is true, and giving you backed up evidence gathered from whatever instrument, then he is probably right in what he is saying, and you are probably wrong in thinking he is lying.

I am not here to convince you one way or the other, of anything, but to accuse me of spreading ignorance because I'm looking at concepts long thought "disproven" by "modern" science with an open yet critical mind, is insulting to me.

I'm sorry for that, I was generalizing and I didn't mean to insult you.

Ignorance is king because no one likes to think for themselves anymore. Apathy is crown prince because even when clearly shown evidence contrary to a popular belief it is ignored because it's much more convenient to trust those in power to actually give you the truth.
Ignorance is king because people choose to think too much for themselves and refuse to believe anything that they find too strange to exist. Apathy is not crown prince because I can guarantee to you, that if you show a child how amazing space is and how awesome studying it can , he will remain interested in it for the rest of his life, I know that happened to me. While you are correct that it is more convenient to trust those in power, that is not the case with round earth concept. The people they trust famous scientists on their affirmations, like Einstein, with his E=mc2 equation. They trust those people, who have PhDs in their field of study, rather than politicians who majored in politics. Those famous scientists wield almost no power. What little power they do wield as a whole is mere influence over what is a decreasing population of people who understand them and what they have to say. They wield no power compared to what governments wield, and governments aren't the ones telling you the earth is flat or round, its the world renowned scientists.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on February 24, 2016, 04:37:33 AM
Well I'm sorry to frustrate but I totally don't put my faith in scientists, the government, or man in general. You can trust in whoever or whatever you'd like to, I won't judge you for it. All I ask is that you reserve your judgement as well.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: rabinoz on February 25, 2016, 11:10:06 AM
Well I'm sorry to frustrate but I totally don't put my faith in scientists, the government, or man in general. You can trust in whoever or whatever you'd like to, I won't judge you for it. All I ask is that you reserve your judgement as well.
Since you seem to think you are so knowledgeable on this matter of measurement maybe you could tell us just how you would measure say:
The distance from the Equator to each Pole and
the distance around the Equator.
It would be a bit much to expect you to do it, but tell how it could be done!
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on February 25, 2016, 04:15:44 PM
Well I'm sorry to frustrate but I totally don't put my faith in scientists, the government, or man in general. You can trust in whoever or whatever you'd like to, I won't judge you for it. All I ask is that you reserve your judgement as well.
Since you seem to think you are so knowledgeable on this matter of measurement maybe you could tell us just how you would measure say:
The distance from the Equator to each Pole and
the distance around the Equator.
It would be a bit much to expect you to do it, but tell how it could be done!

Well I wouldn't attempt to do it using math, trigonometry, or anything... I'd actually prefer the old method using rope, logs, and knots honestly lol... but seriously though. Have a ship sail on like 15 degrees latitude straight down off coast of Greenland down past Africa to the equator that way.

But when did I pretend to be knowledgeable about anything? I have my reasons for being the guy that questions everything, as I'm sure others do... but trust me my point of view is that actually knowing anything can never be wholly achieved.

That's what drove me to look into the flat earth concepts, because at some point a whole lot of people knew the earth was flat, "scientists" included.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: rabinoz on February 26, 2016, 04:40:10 AM
But when did I pretend to be knowledgeable about anything? I have my reasons for being the guy that questions everything, as I'm sure others do... but trust me my point of view is that actually knowing anything can never be wholly achieved.

That's what drove me to look into the flat earth concepts, because at some point a whole lot of people knew the earth was flat, "scientists" included.
First you say: "actually knowing anything can never be wholly achieved", 
then: "at some point a whole lot of people knew the earth was flat"
Enough said, with such an illogical attitude, further discussion would be fruitless! /b]
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on February 26, 2016, 06:01:52 AM
But when did I pretend to be knowledgeable about anything? I have my reasons for being the guy that questions everything, as I'm sure others do... but trust me my point of view is that actually knowing anything can never be wholly achieved.

That's what drove me to look into the flat earth concepts, because at some point a whole lot of people knew the earth was flat, "scientists" included.
First you say: "actually knowing anything can never be wholly achieved", 
then: "at some point a whole lot of people knew the earth was flat"
Enough said, with such an illogical attitude, further discussion would be fruitless! /b]

Note that I put it "knew" in italics. Anyway, I've been looking into Newton's theories of gravitation more, and the following quote from Newton in a letter to his colleague Richard Bentley speaks volumes about the faith he actually had in his theory of objects acting upon each other through space.

"That gravity should be innate, inherent and essential to matter, so that one body should act upon another at a distance, through a vacuum, without the mediation of anything else, by and through which their force may be conveyed from one to another, is to me so great an absurdity that I believe no man who has, in philosophical matters, a competent faculty of thinking, can ever fall into it. Gravity must be caused by an agent, acting constantly according to certain laws, but whether this agent be material or immaterial, I leave to the consideration of my reader. "

This paper by Immanuel Velikovsky also raises a lot of critical points about gravity in general. It is very well worth the read.

Point being, let's not pretend that there aren't multitudes of questionable aspects about Newton's theories on gravitation. So if the theory turns out to be unequivocally false, how do we explain Nasa's persistence that they have applied their knowledge (http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/shuttlestation/station/microgex_prt.htm) of gravity to make man-made objects "orbit" the earth, in the thermosphere I might add. (the place where radiation from the sun causes temperatures reach 2400 degrees)

The whole thing reeks.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: rabinoz on February 26, 2016, 10:23:55 AM
Point being, let's not pretend that there aren't multitudes of questionable aspects about Newton's theories on gravitation. So if the theory turns out to be unequivocally false, how do we explain Nasa's persistence that they have applied their knowledge (http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/shuttlestation/station/microgex_prt.htm) of gravity to make man-made objects "orbit" the earth, in the thermosphere I might add. (the place where radiation from the sun causes temperatures reach 2400 degrees)

The whole thing reeks.
The temperature of a gas is simply a measure of the "thermal velocity" of its molecules , atoms or ions.
In the thermosphere there are too few particles to transfer significant heat to any object by conduction or by convection,
leaving radiation (in and out)  as the only significant heat transfer mechanism. (Apart from cooling by dumping hot water or sream).

You have never answered me when I have asked what Cavendish measured! I believe you simply ignored this bit:
You blithely claim "a rudimentary experiment in a shed is all we needed to prove it." It was hardly rudimentary! Take a look at
Quote
A notoriously shy man (it has been postulated that he was autistic[1]), Cavendish was nonetheless distinguished for great accuracy and precision in his researches into the composition of atmospheric air, the properties of different gases, the synthesis of water, the law governing electrical attraction and repulsion, a mechanical theory of heat, and calculations of the density (and hence the mass) of the Earth. His experiment to measure the density of the Earth has come to be known as the Cavendish experiment.
On top of that numerous similar experiments (I have the details of over 60) have verified his result! Your calling it a rudimentary experiment in a shed is quite misleading. It is an extremely difficult experiment. And it is this verification by other experimenters that sets science apart from the hypothesis and guesswork you have been coming up with!
Gravitation has been very adequately verified experimentally!

[1] Many with "autism" (Aspergers Spectrum Disorder) have extreme capability in a few areas - they are Savants, but have problems interacting with people and that does fit Henry Cavendish!
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on February 26, 2016, 05:00:51 PM
Point being, let's not pretend that there aren't multitudes of questionable aspects about Newton's theories on gravitation. So if the theory turns out to be unequivocally false, how do we explain Nasa's persistence that they have applied their knowledge (http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/shuttlestation/station/microgex_prt.htm) of gravity to make man-made objects "orbit" the earth, in the thermosphere I might add. (the place where radiation from the sun causes temperatures reach 2400 degrees)

The whole thing reeks.
The temperature of a gas is simply a measure of the "thermal velocity" of its molecules , atoms or ions.
In the thermosphere there are too few particles to transfer significant heat to any object by conduction or by convection,
leaving radiation (in and out)  as the only significant heat transfer mechanism. (Apart from cooling by dumping hot water or sream).


Regardless, those few molecules that exist, apparently, in the upper reaches of Earth's atmosphere, are individually heated up by solar radiation. Now this would suffice to explain why heat isn't transfered via convection, but what is stopping the individual particles of the ISS from being heated from the very same solar radiation? Especially since there is nowhere to transfer the heat off of the body of the space station, because as you admit, there are so few gaseous particles there. Please don't say because the materials of satellites are heat proof, because I will show you a photo of the hubble space telescope, and it is not coated in the thermal tiles space shuttles supposedly are. Please Explain.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: rabinoz on February 27, 2016, 10:41:40 AM
Regardless, those few molecules that exist, apparently, in the upper reaches of Earth's atmosphere, are individually heated up by solar radiation. Now this would suffice to explain why heat isn't transfered via convection, but what is stopping the individual particles of the ISS from being heated from the very same solar radiation? Especially since there is nowhere to transfer the heat off of the body of the space station, because as you admit, there are so few gaseous particles there. Please don't say because the materials of satellites are heat proof, because I will show you a photo of the hubble space telescope, and it is not coated in the thermal tiles space shuttles supposedly are. Please Explain.
Those thermal tiles would not help for very long. If they heated on the outside they would conduct heat in time. They are very good thermal insulators, but that is not sufficient for a very long period. The intense heat of re-entry is only for a short time.

At the height of the ISS or the Hubble objects get radiant heating from the side exposed to the sun, but also radiate heat to the "near absolute cold" of outer space and exchange heat with the earth. The equilibrium temperature depends on many factors and can be cooled with radiators on the shade side or heated if on the sunny side. 

This is grossly simplifing the problem. Temperature control of space vessels (that you don't believe exist anyway!) is a very big subject, far outside any little expertise I might have!
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on February 27, 2016, 07:37:17 PM
Regardless, those few molecules that exist, apparently, in the upper reaches of Earth's atmosphere, are individually heated up by solar radiation. Now this would suffice to explain why heat isn't transfered via convection, but what is stopping the individual particles of the ISS from being heated from the very same solar radiation? Especially since there is nowhere to transfer the heat off of the body of the space station, because as you admit, there are so few gaseous particles there. Please don't say because the materials of satellites are heat proof, because I will show you a photo of the hubble space telescope, and it is not coated in the thermal tiles space shuttles supposedly are. Please Explain.
Those thermal tiles would not help for very long. If they heated on the outside they would conduct heat in time. They are very good thermal insulators, but that is not sufficient for a very long period. The intense heat of re-entry is only for a short time.

At the height of the ISS or the Hubble objects get radiant heating from the side exposed to the sun, but also radiate heat to the "near absolute cold" of outer space and exchange heat with the earth. The equilibrium temperature depends on many factors and can be cooled with radiators on the shade side or heated if on the sunny side. 

This is grossly simplifing the problem. Temperature control of space vessels (that you don't believe exist anyway!) is a very big subject, far outside any little expertise I might have!

Thats because there is no answer offered except for this gross simplification. Any logic or reason involved dictates that actual humans on the ISS would be cooked like in an oven. As you said even the most advanced thermal tiles created by man can only withstand the temperatures for brief amount of time... Just like the brevity in exposure to the amount of intense solar radiation is the only way to explain away the certain death that would face an Apollo astronaut in passing through.

I don't believe we have machines in space orbiting the earth based on principles of a thought experiment by a 17th century alchemist. Universal Gravity has thoroughly been refuted by scholars without a dog in the race and has only been clung onto by institutions like universities and space agencies for political, monetary, and authoritarian reasons, just like the theory of general relativity.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: rabinoz on February 28, 2016, 02:53:14 AM
Thats because there is no answer offered except for this gross simplification. Any logic or reason involved dictates that actual humans on the ISS would be cooked like in an oven. As you said even the most advanced thermal tiles created by man can only withstand the temperatures for brief amount of time... Just like the brevity in exposure to the amount of intense solar radiation is the only way to explain away the certain death that would face an Apollo astronaut in passing through.

I don't believe we have machines in space orbiting the earth based on principles of a thought experiment by a 17th century alchemist. Universal Gravity has thoroughly been refuted by scholars without a dog in the race and has only been clung onto by institutions like universities and space agencies for political, monetary, and authoritarian reasons, just like the theory of general relativity.

The earth itself is exposed to essentially the same thermal environment as spacecraft. The biggest difference is that the earth is huge and has been here a long time, so has reached thermal equilibrium.
Actually, as far as the earth is concerned, the situation is quite a bit worse in that there is considerable internal heat generated, about 50% from radioactive decay. The atmosphere does not help a great deal, because a lot of solar radiation comes in at near optical wavelengths and heats the surface of the earth. Some is then re-radiated, but at longer wavelengths which are absorbed by the atmosphere. This is exacerbated by the presence of extra CO2 and water vapour.

No it's not "Just like the brevity in exposure to the amount of intense solar radiation is the only way to explain away the certain death that would face an Apollo astronaut in passing through." The van Allen belts were well mapped beforehand and the type of radiation is largely "particulate" (ie ions and not gamma radiation) and can be shielded by light weight materials (thin aluminium, polythene, etc). If you are the tiniest bit interested (I do doubt it - it might disturb your obvious ignorance!) look up: http://www.clavius.org/envrad.html (http://www.clavius.org/envrad.html) which addresses this very topic.

The space vehicles can be fitted with a reflective (shiny!) skin to reflect radiation, so there is no reason with the appropriate radiators they cannot achieve a heat balance.

You claim "the most advanced thermal tiles created by man can only withstand the temperatures for brief amount of time".
Those tiles were designed to withstand extreme temperatures for a short time and the did what they were designed to do!
On spacecraft, (whatever you say) there is not that extreme heat to contend with! No thermal insulation can keep heat out for an indefinite time! Though modern thermal insulation is extremely good, it only delays the transmission of heat. Still it can be very useful in thermal control.

And, we do not have "machines in space orbiting the earth based on principles of a thought experiment by a 17th century alchemist"!
Newton did a lot more than a though experiment. Both he and Hooke did a large amount of experimental work, and Hooke was well advanced on the same theory and had he not died 24 years before Newton we might well have had Hooke's Law of Universal Gravitation!
No, Newton not suddenly dream up this law after being knocked silly by an apple!
Then of course you deliberately ignore:
What force did Henry Cavendish (and numerous others in the couple of centuries since) measure.
Though there are, so far unexplained small variations, they certainly measured a force that
leads to an accepted value of G = 6.673 x 10-11 m3 kg-1 s-2

Most of these have used apparatus similar in principle to the torsion balance apparatus designed and constructed by geologist John Michell, and performed by Henry Cavendish (John Michell died before he could do the experiment himself). But some later quite different experiments are using quantum properties of cold Rubidium atoms and a 500 kg test mass. So far the results from this method differ a little from the accepted value, but later refinements are getting better agreement.

Then you claim:
Universal Gravity has thoroughly been refuted by scholars
Please come up with some sound evidence of this. Put up, or shut up as they say in the better classics!
I have seen one paper by Miles Mathis claiming "debunked" Cavendish, but on reading his paper, I would not give much credence to it.  Mind you Miles Mathis seems to have had little to say on all the modern work, with better equipment and the means to avoid some of the sources of possible error.  In any case many of the "errors" Miles Mathis alludes to are simply constant masses in the vicinity, as no-one has questioned the additive property of gravity.
Another paper by Miles Mathis proves π = 4, and is not "dimensionless".  Interesting fellow, Miles Mathis!


Look you do not believe in space craft, space, satellites etc, I wish you would just stop showing your abysmal ignorance on these matters!
If you don't even believe in these things, would you please explain how the measurements on the thermoshere and van Allen belts were carried out! From sounding rockets and spacecraft of course!

If you seriously want answers fine, but all you want to do is push you own agenda!
And when you start attacking well proven results with no better argument than the Newton was an Alchemist, you have lost the plot! It's a bit tough criticising someone that lived 400 years ago because he lacked the modern knowledge of the elements!
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on February 28, 2016, 07:09:44 AM
Is this your job bro? Let me bask in my ignorance. Please spare me, unless you can ddescribe the mechanism used in getting man off of the moon, back to earth. No one ever talks about that, but please describe the rocket they used to launch off of the moon back to earth.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: rabinoz on February 28, 2016, 12:35:19 PM
Is this your job bro? Let me bask in my ignorance. Please spare me, unless you can ddescribe the mechanism used in getting man off of the moon, back to earth. No one ever talks about that, but please describe the rocket they used to launch off of the moon back to earth.
What on earth do you mean with "No one ever talks about that"? You can look it up yourself just as well as I can! Mind you, getting off the moon is the easy bit, with the low gravity - re-entry back on earth is the hard bit! Anyway that's all well described!
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on February 28, 2016, 04:32:03 PM
Is this your job bro? Let me bask in my ignorance. Please spare me, unless you can ddescribe the mechanism used in getting man off of the moon, back to earth. No one ever talks about that, but please describe the rocket they used to launch off of the moon back to earth.
What on earth do you mean with "No one ever talks about that"? You can look it up yourself just as well as I can! Mind you, getting off the moon is the easy bit, with the low gravity - re-entry back on earth is the hard bit! Anyway that's all well described!

It's not talked about in any great length, except aldrin and armstrong "blasted off" and docked with something supposedly orbiting the moon.

So on earth it takes a team of hundreds and hundreds of engineers, precise control, and perfectly aimed rocket to launch out of its orbit, but on the moon it just took two guys? Who happened to also be rocket scientists.

This is all null considering the concept of gravity and microgravity as explained ny Newton and used to explain how space flight works IS A FARCE.

And I dont think everyone at NASA knows. All the poor folks that dedicate their lives to the types of study required to work there are probably very smart. They probably believe what they draw up is actually what happens... But the point when youre in mission control and the other guys are supposedly in orbit, you no longer can be a firsthand witness.
Title: density pressure
Post by: Charming Anarchist on February 28, 2016, 09:28:49 PM
As stated in the FAQ, the force know as gravity doesnt exist, rather what we feel as gravity is the force of the earth accelerating at a rate of 32ft/s/s. If this is the case,
This is NOT the case. 

The earth is not moving.  That acceleration theory is disinfo to lead true-earthers into disarray.  Stop thinking that the earth is moving. 





The reason why the apple falls down is due to air pressure and density differences.  The apple is more dense than air but less dense than water. 
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: rabinoz on February 29, 2016, 03:32:02 AM
Is this your job bro? Let me bask in my ignorance. Please spare me, unless you can ddescribe the mechanism used in getting man off of the moon, back to earth. No one ever talks about that, but please describe the rocket they used to launch off of the moon back to earth.
What on earth do you mean with "No one ever talks about that"? You can look it up yourself just as well as I can! Mind you, getting off the moon is the easy bit, with the low gravity - re-entry back on earth is the hard bit! Anyway that's all well described!

It's not talked about in any great length, except aldrin and armstrong "blasted off" and docked with something supposedly orbiting the moon.

So on earth it takes a team of hundreds and hundreds of engineers, precise control, and perfectly aimed rocket to launch out of its orbit, but on the moon it just took two guys? Who happened to also be rocket scientists.

This is all null considering the concept of gravity and microgravity as explained ny Newton and used to explain how space flight works IS A FARCE.

And I dont think everyone at NASA knows. All the poor folks that dedicate their lives to the types of study required to work there are probably very smart. They probably believe what they draw up is actually what happens... But the point when youre in mission control and the other guys are supposedly in orbit, you no longer can be a firsthand witness.
For a start those "team of hundreds and hundreds of engineers" also designed the lunar module and planned the lift off. It did no have to reach escape velocity (2.4 km/s), just rendezvous with the command module.
There is voluminous information on this.
http://www.armaghplanet.com/blog/nasas-lunar-module-everything-you-need-to-know.html (http://www.armaghplanet.com/blog/nasas-lunar-module-everything-you-need-to-know.html)
http://www.universetoday.com/117331/how-nasa-filmed-humans-last-leaving-the-moon-42-years-ago/ (http://www.universetoday.com/117331/how-nasa-filmed-humans-last-leaving-the-moon-42-years-ago/)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Lunar_Module (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Lunar_Module)
http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/moon-mars/a4391/4318496/ (http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/moon-mars/a4391/4318496/)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4yYZh1U908
I know you don't believe it, so why do you bother asking, but as I said before, getting off the moon is child's play compared to re-entry!
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on February 29, 2016, 04:05:34 AM
And they calculated the moons gravity how? Because as far as I can tell there is still debate about earths which should be a lot easier to detect because a. Its a lot bigger and b. Were actually on it. Now that wouldn't be too big of a deal if we assume it is a certain level and overcompensate but getting the "command module" to orbit seems a complicated task.

Its all bullshit you can live in fantasy space land but I'll stay down here in reality.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: rabinoz on February 29, 2016, 09:57:02 AM
And they calculated the moons gravity how? Because as far as I can tell there is still debate about earths which should be a lot easier to detect because a. Its a lot bigger and b. Were actually on it. Now that wouldn't be too big of a deal if we assume it is a certain level and overcompensate but getting the "command module" to orbit seems a complicated task.

Its all bullshit you can live in fantasy space land but I'll stay down here in reality.
I don't see any debate on "there is still debate about earths" gravity. Even TFES says it is 9.8m/s^2. Who's debating?
The launch from earth was far more than "getting the 'command module' to orbit".
You write as though you no idea of what was involved, and I am certainly not going into the details that you look up yourself.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on February 29, 2016, 04:55:50 PM
And they calculated the moons gravity how? Because as far as I can tell there is still debate about earths which should be a lot easier to detect because a. Its a lot bigger and b. Were actually on it. Now that wouldn't be too big of a deal if we assume it is a certain level and overcompensate but getting the "command module" to orbit seems a complicated task.

Its all bullshit you can live in fantasy space land but I'll stay down here in reality.
I don't see any debate on "there is still debate about earths" gravity. Even TFES says it is 9.8m/s^2. Who's debating?
The launch from earth was far more than "getting the 'command module' to orbit".
You write as though you no idea of what was involved, and I am certainly not going into the details that you look up yourself.

Orbiting is based on the principle of a "free fall" which means a vessel is traveling so fast it effectively falls "over" the horizon. Earth's gravity being 9.8m/s^2 is the way they determined just how fast a vessel would have to be to "orbit" Earth.

Now did someone send a "cavendish" device to the moon? And a scientist check its results after a year? If not, how did we know the density of the moon to be able to create a "command module" that is capable of reaching exactly the right speed to orbit the moon?

I think you are underestimating my perception of the principles of orbit. Maybe it's easier to paint me with the idiot brush but you can't say I'm wholly ignorant of the concepts.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: rabinoz on March 01, 2016, 06:27:41 AM
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Orbiting is based on the principle of a "free fall" which means a vessel is traveling so fast it effectively falls "over" the horizon. Earth's gravity being 9.8m/s^2 is the way they determined just how fast a vessel would have to be to "orbit" Earth.

Now did someone send a "cavendish" device to the moon? And a scientist check its results after a year? If not, how did we know the density of the moon to be able to create a "command module" that is capable of reaching exactly the right speed to orbit the moon?

I think you are underestimating my perception of the principles of orbit. Maybe it's easier to paint me with the idiot brush but you can't say I'm wholly ignorant of the concepts.
No, there is no need (or point) to having "someone send a "cavendish" device to the moon" and it's hardly a "device" that you could use that way.

I most certainly won't "paint me with the idiot brush" for asking how strong gravitation on the moon was measured. It is also something I did not know until I tried to chase it up just now. It is something that astronomers spent quite a lot of time on after Newton.

The distance and diameter were easy to measure by astronomical means, and reasonably accurate values have been known for a very long time and the mass of planets with their own satellites is easy to determine from the orbital periods of these satellites. Those without satellites can be estimated by their effects on the orbits of other planets.

In the case of the moon, trying to estimate the mass simply by comparing its volume to that of the earth gives mass that is far too high, as the moon's average density (3,340 kg/m3) is much less than that of the earth (5,514 kg/m3).

Newton tried to estimate the moon's mass from relative tidal effects of the sun and the moon - and botched it up because of the complications of tidal flow in the estuary he was working from - yes, Newton made "mistakes" too.
Quite a number of method's were used by Laplace, Airy and others to home in on a more accurate figure. A description of all methods used is much more than I could tackle here and I'd probably get it wrong! Even events like the approach of the near earth asteroid Eros can give useful data.
These astronomers would not have been satisfied until they got results from the various methods that were in good agreement.

Summarising, it's not easy, but a good value of the mass and hence the moon's gravity was available long before any space missions were contemplated.

Of course, there were many moon missions, from simply crashing into the moon to orbiting the moon, well before any manned missions were contemplated. These enabled a refinement of the value.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: amppen on March 19, 2016, 04:33:33 PM
Hello. This is all very interesting. However, I can't quite wrap my head around the mechanism that causes the "pretty small" planets explained in the wiki to orbit around the Sun if there is no gravity.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: nametaken on March 20, 2016, 01:55:10 AM
Why is this topic still going? The first response answered the question.

Hello. This is all very interesting. However, I can't quite wrap my head around the mechanism that causes the "pretty small" planets explained in the wiki to orbit around the Sun if there is no gravity.

I think the illustration here (http://wiki.tfes.org/Planets) is what you're looking for. iirc the FE model doesn't acknowledge the apparent force we call gravity as being a real thing (and the OP confirms this). But of course, the model the wiki offers in place of [the Earth's] gravity is the acceleration explanation (http://wiki.tfes.org/FAQ#Objects_cannot_exceed_the_speed_of_light._Doesn.27t_this_mean_that_the_Earth_can.27t_accelerate_forever.3F). Specifically, I don't understand how it works as it approaches c; if the acceleration slowed (http://wiki.tfes.org/Universal_Acceleration#Accelerating_to_the_Speed_of_Light), wouldn't the 'apparent force' of gravity disappear? Of course, the more obvious problem is that if the Flat Earth were traveling almost c and say, we launched a rocket from Earth, wouldn't the rocket be going almost c plus the rocket's velocity (possibly faster than c), to be inevitably overcome again by the continual acceleration of the Flat Earth? Of course everything else in the FE model seems to stay in a fixed location with the acceleration, so there would never be any proof of the actual speed at which the Earth is moving; it could literally be going faster than c already, but it would be impossible to tell.

On the other hand, if we launched a rocket and sent it 'bellow/behind' the Flat Earth, would the Flat Earth continue to accelerate away from the rocket? However, iirc it is impossible to leave the FE, but can't find any such statement on the wiki. Thank you you just gave me the idea for my next topic.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: rabinoz on March 20, 2016, 04:21:30 AM
Hello. This is all very interesting. However, I can't quite wrap my head around the mechanism that causes the "pretty small" planets explained in the wiki to orbit around the Sun if there is no gravity.
;D ;D That is easy!  ;D ;D
Just look on The Flat Earth Society site for Astrophysics (http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Astrophysics&highlight=nexus)
Quote
NEXUS RINGS
The elliptical orbits observed by Astrophysicists on earth are caused by planets moving along transparent, magnetic nexus rings. All significant celestial objects move along individual nexus rings. In addition, smaller objects such as asteroids may be slightly influenced by the pull of nexus rings. Nexus rings exert a small force on each other, but because of the vast amount of nexus rings in the universe, the net forces on each nexus ring are negligible.

Now, please don't ask ME what a NEXUS RING is! Maybe another name for FE magic?
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: totallackey on April 03, 2016, 09:08:21 PM
Is this your job bro? Let me bask in my ignorance. Please spare me, unless you can ddescribe the mechanism used in getting man off of the moon, back to earth. No one ever talks about that, but please describe the rocket they used to launch off of the moon back to earth.
What on earth do you mean with "No one ever talks about that"? You can look it up yourself just as well as I can! Mind you, getting off the moon is the easy bit, with the low gravity - re-entry back on earth is the hard bit! Anyway that's all well described!

It's not talked about in any great length, except aldrin and armstrong "blasted off" and docked with something supposedly orbiting the moon.

So on earth it takes a team of hundreds and hundreds of engineers, precise control, and perfectly aimed rocket to launch out of its orbit, but on the moon it just took two guys? Who happened to also be rocket scientists.

This is all null considering the concept of gravity and microgravity as explained ny Newton and used to explain how space flight works IS A FARCE.

And I dont think everyone at NASA knows. All the poor folks that dedicate their lives to the types of study required to work there are probably very smart. They probably believe what they draw up is actually what happens... But the point when youre in mission control and the other guys are supposedly in orbit, you no longer can be a firsthand witness.
For a start those "team of hundreds and hundreds of engineers" also designed the lunar module and planned the lift off. It did no have to reach escape velocity (2.4 km/s), just rendezvous with the command module.
There is voluminous information on this.
http://www.armaghplanet.com/blog/nasas-lunar-module-everything-you-need-to-know.html (http://www.armaghplanet.com/blog/nasas-lunar-module-everything-you-need-to-know.html)
http://www.universetoday.com/117331/how-nasa-filmed-humans-last-leaving-the-moon-42-years-ago/ (http://www.universetoday.com/117331/how-nasa-filmed-humans-last-leaving-the-moon-42-years-ago/)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Lunar_Module (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Lunar_Module)
http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/moon-mars/a4391/4318496/ (http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/moon-mars/a4391/4318496/)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4yYZh1U908
I know you don't believe it, so why do you bother asking, but as I said before, getting off the moon is child's play compared to re-entry!

Who was shooting that footage? That is some damn fine camera work...I mean, the module was followed nearly center screen for a whole minute...fucking amazing!!! You capture motion like that on screen you should be fucking working Hollywood and win every Oscar ever offered for cinematography!!!
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: rabinoz on April 04, 2016, 12:55:30 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4yYZh1U908
I know you don't believe it, so why do you bother asking, but as I said before, getting off the moon is child's play compared to re-entry!

Who was shooting that footage? That is some damn fine camera work...I mean, the module was followed nearly center screen for a whole minute...fucking amazing!!! You capture motion like that on screen you should be fucking working Hollywood and win every Oscar ever offered for cinematography!!!
Yes, I know! YOU don't understand how it is done, so it must be FAKE!
So many seem to think they know everything about everything, and can tell it can't be done just by looking at it. I don't know why you don't become an adviser to tell these engineers that it can be done, so don't bother trying!

A little reading up on the massive material available might just tell you how these things are done. I haven't looked up about that video, but at a guess the trajectory of the vehicle was well planed and known in advance, so what would be so hard about pre-programming the camera!

It's not rocket science you know! - er well, maybe a lot of it is, but it is "rocket scientists" and engineers doing the planning.

So many flat earthers seem to only read and look at material prepared by other flat earthers that they never see the wider pictures.
Yet you talk of Globe supporters being indoctrinated! Sure, but we are prepared to read up on "Flat Earth Theory", and in my case I find it severely lacking in numerous areas and unable to explain numerous observations!

That is: Without dragging in "magical" UA, magical "atmospheric magnification", magic "massive atmospheric refraction", quite unrealistic and artificial perspective and numerous other things.
And is still unable to explain how the circumference of the earth at 40° South latitude is almost exactly the same as at 40° North latitude.
Not EXACTLY - remember the Pear Shaped bit!
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: Rounder on April 04, 2016, 02:43:23 AM
Who was shooting that footage? That is some damn fine camera work...I mean, the module was followed nearly center screen for a whole minute...fucking amazing!!! You capture motion like that on screen you should be fucking working Hollywood and win every Oscar ever offered for cinematography!!!

The camera on the lunar rover was used, and operated from Earth by a NASA engineer named Ed Fendell.  Because of the signal delay between the moon and the Earth, he had to start sending the command to "pan up" the camera a couple seconds before the module actually launched, based on the countdown clock running in Mission Control.  You can read his account of the event on pages 60-61 of this interview transcript. (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/Fendell-OralHist.pdf).  He and a colleague had pre-calculated where the camera needed to be aimed at each second of flight, and Ed sat in Houston sending incremental commands to the camera, working blind.  They didn't even know if they had good footage until afterward.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on April 04, 2016, 05:23:08 AM
Who was shooting that footage? That is some damn fine camera work...I mean, the module was followed nearly center screen for a whole minute...fucking amazing!!! You capture motion like that on screen you should be fucking working Hollywood and win every Oscar ever offered for cinematography!!!

The camera on the lunar rover was used, and operated from Earth by a NASA engineer named Ed Fendell.  Because of the signal delay between the moon and the Earth, he had to start sending the command to "pan up" the camera a couple seconds before the module actually launched, based on the countdown clock running in Mission Control.  You can read his account of the event on pages 60-61 of this interview transcript. (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/Fendell-OralHist.pdf).  He and a colleague had pre-calculated where the camera needed to be aimed at each second of flight, and Ed sat in Houston sending incremental commands to the camera, working blind.  They didn't even know if they had good footage until afterward.

How convenient.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: rabinoz on April 04, 2016, 06:40:03 AM
Who was shooting that footage? That is some damn fine camera work...I mean, the module was followed nearly center screen for a whole minute...fucking amazing!!! You capture motion like that on screen you should be fucking working Hollywood and win every Oscar ever offered for cinematography!!!

The camera on the lunar rover was used, and operated from Earth by a NASA engineer named Ed Fendell.  Because of the signal delay between the moon and the Earth, he had to start sending the command to "pan up" the camera a couple seconds before the module actually launched, based on the countdown clock running in Mission Control.  You can read his account of the event on pages 60-61 of this interview transcript. (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/Fendell-OralHist.pdf).  He and a colleague had pre-calculated where the camera needed to be aimed at each second of flight, and Ed sat in Houston sending incremental commands to the camera, working blind.  They didn't even know if they had good footage until afterward.

How convenient.
Just the sort of inane comment I would expect from a NASAphobic know-it-all like yourself.
Don't you just lurv th' formattin'?
Nice little reference on amateur (and other) astronomical observations of Apollo missions:
Telescopic Tracking of the Apollo Lunar Missions (http://www.astr.ua.edu/keel/space/apollo.html)
I'm sure you'll be interested.

Wonder how they calculated trajectories? Using "dens-pressure" or whatever rubbish you come up for gravity, since you seem to have an aversion for that Newtonian thingo.
Or, did they use Einstein's General Relativity solutions, using the Schwarzschild metric. In fact I think they probably used good old Newton!

PS If you don't know what I'm talking about, don't feel too inferior - I don't know much about it anyway! Sounds impressive to spout things like "the Schwarzschild metric".
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: Unsure101 on April 04, 2016, 02:05:22 PM
Who was shooting that footage? That is some damn fine camera work...I mean, the module was followed nearly center screen for a whole minute...fucking amazing!!! You capture motion like that on screen you should be fucking working Hollywood and win every Oscar ever offered for cinematography!!!

The camera on the lunar rover was used, and operated from Earth by a NASA engineer named Ed Fendell.  Because of the signal delay between the moon and the Earth, he had to start sending the command to "pan up" the camera a couple seconds before the module actually launched, based on the countdown clock running in Mission Control.  You can read his account of the event on pages 60-61 of this interview transcript. (https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/Fendell-OralHist.pdf).  He and a colleague had pre-calculated where the camera needed to be aimed at each second of flight, and Ed sat in Houston sending incremental commands to the camera, working blind.  They didn't even know if they had good footage until afterward.

How convenient.
No, just well calculated execution based on scientific principles, unlike the magic used for UA, bendy light, focal point suns and shadow objects.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: Rounder on April 04, 2016, 03:51:55 PM
How convenient.

If you would read the linked material, you will see it was anything but.  There were only three lunar missions with rovers: Apollo 15-17.  On 15 the motor to tilt the camera burned out, so no footage.  On 16 the crew parked the rover in the wrong spot, so Fendell's pre-calculated camera angles were useless with no time for new calculations, so no footage.  17 was the last chance, and they got it.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: Round fact on April 04, 2016, 05:53:36 PM
But when did I pretend to be knowledgeable about anything? I have my reasons for being the guy that questions everything, as I'm sure others do... but trust me my point of view is that actually knowing anything can never be wholly achieved.

That's what drove me to look into the flat earth concepts, because at some point a whole lot of people knew the earth was flat, "scientists" included.
First you say: "actually knowing anything can never be wholly achieved", 
then: "at some point a whole lot of people knew the earth was flat"
Enough said, with such an illogical attitude, further discussion would be fruitless! /b]

Note that I put it "knew" in italics. Anyway, I've been looking into Newton's theories of gravitation more, and the following quote from Newton in a letter to his colleague Richard Bentley speaks volumes about the faith he actually had in his theory of objects acting upon each other through space.

"That gravity should be innate, inherent and essential to matter, so that one body should act upon another at a distance, through a vacuum, without the mediation of anything else, by and through which their force may be conveyed from one to another, is to me so great an absurdity that I believe no man who has, in philosophical matters, a competent faculty of thinking, can ever fall into it. Gravity must be caused by an agent, acting constantly according to certain laws, but whether this agent be material or immaterial, I leave to the consideration of my reader. "

This paper by Immanuel Velikovsky also raises a lot of critical points about gravity in general. It is very well worth the read.

Point being, let's not pretend that there aren't multitudes of questionable aspects about Newton's theories on gravitation. So if the theory turns out to be unequivocally false, how do we explain Nasa's persistence that they have applied their knowledge (http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/shuttlestation/station/microgex_prt.htm) of gravity to make man-made objects "orbit" the earth, in the thermosphere I might add. (the place where radiation from the sun causes temperatures reach 2400 degrees)

The whole thing reeks.

When I was in 7th grade, we saw two large lead balls hung in a vacuum chamber. One ball was released to swing very close the other. After a while the stationary ball started to swing too
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: Hoppy on April 04, 2016, 06:26:18 PM
How convenient.

If you would read the linked material, you will see it was anything but.  There were only three lunar missions with rovers: Apollo 15-17.  On 15 the motor to tilt the camera burned out, so no footage.  On 16 the crew parked the rover in the wrong spot, so Fendell's pre-calculated camera angles were useless with was no time for new calculations, so no footage.  17 was the last chance, and they got it.
Again, how convenient.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: rabinoz on April 04, 2016, 10:01:47 PM
How convenient.

If you would read the linked material, you will see it was anything but.  There were only three lunar missions with rovers: Apollo 15-17.  On 15 the motor to tilt the camera burned out, so no footage.  On 16 the crew parked the rover in the wrong spot, so Fendell's pre-calculated camera angles were useless with was no time for new calculations, so no footage.  17 was the last chance, and they got it.
Again, how convenient.

Just as inane as when "Little Truth Found Here" said it and not even original.
And he has no idea even what keeps his feet on the ground! Oh, the GRAVITY of the situation!
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on April 05, 2016, 01:48:13 AM
How convenient.

If you would read the linked material, you will see it was anything but.  There were only three lunar missions with rovers: Apollo 15-17.  On 15 the motor to tilt the camera burned out, so no footage.  On 16 the crew parked the rover in the wrong spot, so Fendell's pre-calculated camera angles were useless with was no time for new calculations, so no footage.  17 was the last chance, and they got it.
Again, how convenient.

Just as inane as when "Little Truth Found Here" said it and not even original.
And he has no idea even what keeps his feet on the ground! Oh, the GRAVITY of the situation!

I may not have my own original theory but I certainly know it isn't some magic force described as an inherent property of mass capable of exerting forces through a vacuum, that sometimes pulls objects towards each other and sometimes makes them rotate each other perpetually.

I don't care what you think about me or my beliefs, and quite honestly, I feel no desire to even debate or discuss anything with you any longer. It's a never ending loop that is about pleasurable as a root canal.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: rabinoz on April 05, 2016, 04:25:18 AM
I may not have my own original theory but I certainly know it isn't some magic force described as an inherent property of mass capable of exerting forces through a vacuum, that sometimes pulls objects towards each other and sometimes makes them rotate each other perpetually.

I don't care what you think about me or my beliefs, and quite honestly, I feel no desire to even debate or discuss anything with you any longer. It's a never ending loop that is about pleasurable as a root canal.
So what do think holds you on the ground? "Chewing gum!"

And who keeps this "never ending loop that is about pleasurable as a root canal" going!

When you keep coming up with statements like gravity "sometimes makes them rotate each other perpetually, I will always responds in the hopes that others might not fall into the utterly stupid notions that you seem to have.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: Round fact on April 05, 2016, 12:21:55 PM
Why is this topic still going? The first response answered the question.

Hello. This is all very interesting. However, I can't quite wrap my head around the mechanism that causes the "pretty small" planets explained in the wiki to orbit around the Sun if there is no gravity.

I think the illustration here (http://wiki.tfes.org/Planets) is what you're looking for. iirc the FE model doesn't acknowledge the apparent force we call gravity as being a real thing (and the OP confirms this). But of course, the model the wiki offers in place of [the Earth's] gravity is the acceleration explanation (http://wiki.tfes.org/FAQ#Objects_cannot_exceed_the_speed_of_light._Doesn.27t_this_mean_that_the_Earth_can.27t_accelerate_forever.3F). Specifically, I don't understand how it works as it approaches c; if the acceleration slowed (http://wiki.tfes.org/Universal_Acceleration#Accelerating_to_the_Speed_of_Light), wouldn't the 'apparent force' of gravity disappear? Of course, the more obvious problem is that if the Flat Earth were traveling almost c and say, we launched a rocket from Earth, wouldn't the rocket be going almost c plus the rocket's velocity (possibly faster than c), to be inevitably overcome again by the continual acceleration of the Flat Earth? Of course everything else in the FE model seems to stay in a fixed location with the acceleration, so there would never be any proof of the actual speed at which the Earth is moving; it could literally be going faster than c already, but it would be impossible to tell.

On the other hand, if we launched a rocket and sent it 'bellow/behind' the Flat Earth, would the Flat Earth continue to accelerate away from the rocket? However, iirc it is impossible to leave the FE, but can't find any such statement on the wiki. Thank you you just gave me the idea for my next topic.

First all, c is relative to observer. More than that and I'd be writing a small book here. You have a LOT of research ahead of you.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: Round fact on April 08, 2016, 06:17:22 PM
How convenient.

If you would read the linked material, you will see it was anything but.  There were only three lunar missions with rovers: Apollo 15-17.  On 15 the motor to tilt the camera burned out, so no footage.  On 16 the crew parked the rover in the wrong spot, so Fendell's pre-calculated camera angles were useless with was no time for new calculations, so no footage.  17 was the last chance, and they got it.
Again, how convenient.

Just as inane as when "Little Truth Found Here" said it and not even original.
And he has no idea even what keeps his feet on the ground! Oh, the GRAVITY of the situation!

I may not have my own original theory but I certainly know it isn't some magic force described as an inherent property of mass capable of exerting forces through a vacuum, that sometimes pulls objects towards each other and sometimes makes them rotate each other perpetually.

I don't care what you think about me or my beliefs, and quite honestly, I feel no desire to even debate or discuss anything with you any longer. It's a never ending loop that is about pleasurable as a root canal.

In other words  I don't believe in math and science, so don't try and educate me
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: BCGreenwood on April 08, 2016, 06:42:44 PM
I think most flat earthers accept their theory falls apart if they admit gravity is the force holding us on to the Earth.

The problem is if they don't believe in gravity they generally believe it's the Earth constantly accelerating upwards. They don't realise this is an even bigger problem because in less than a year we would be travelling faster than the speed of light.

They've tried to rectify this with Einstein's special relativity but have run in to an even bigger problem that they simply don't address.
Believing that the Earth is experiencing length contraction (so it won't pass the speed of light) they would have to accept that the mass of every object on Earth is approaching infinity.
Unless of course they believe that the palm of their hand has greater mass than a super massive black hole.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: Round fact on April 08, 2016, 09:27:08 PM
I think most flat earthers accept their theory falls apart if they admit gravity is the force holding us on to the Earth.

The problem is if they don't believe in gravity they generally believe it's the Earth constantly accelerating upwards. They don't realise this is an even bigger problem because in less than a year we would be travelling faster than the speed of light.

They've tried to rectify this with Einstein's special relativity but have run in to an even bigger problem that they simply don't address.
Believing that the Earth is experiencing length contraction (so it won't pass the speed of light) they would have to accept that the mass of every object on Earth is approaching infinity.
Unless of course they believe that the palm of their hand has greater mass than a super massive black hole.

In general they shy away from math like a rabid dog does water. Mathematically FE doesn't hold up and they know it.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: TheTruthIsOnHere on April 08, 2016, 10:31:20 PM
I think most flat earthers accept their theory falls apart if they admit gravity is the force holding us on to the Earth.

The problem is if they don't believe in gravity they generally believe it's the Earth constantly accelerating upwards. They don't realise this is an even bigger problem because in less than a year we would be travelling faster than the speed of light.

They've tried to rectify this with Einstein's special relativity but have run in to an even bigger problem that they simply don't address.
Believing that the Earth is experiencing length contraction (so it won't pass the speed of light) they would have to accept that the mass of every object on Earth is approaching infinity.
Unless of course they believe that the palm of their hand has greater mass than a super massive black hole.

In general they shy away from math like a rabid dog does water. Mathematically FE doesn't hold up and they know it.

Please elaborate which math doesn't work on the flat earth.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: Round fact on April 08, 2016, 10:43:26 PM
I think most flat earthers accept their theory falls apart if they admit gravity is the force holding us on to the Earth.

The problem is if they don't believe in gravity they generally believe it's the Earth constantly accelerating upwards. They don't realise this is an even bigger problem because in less than a year we would be travelling faster than the speed of light.

They've tried to rectify this with Einstein's special relativity but have run in to an even bigger problem that they simply don't address.
Believing that the Earth is experiencing length contraction (so it won't pass the speed of light) they would have to accept that the mass of every object on Earth is approaching infinity.
Unless of course they believe that the palm of their hand has greater mass than a super massive black hole.

In general they shy away from math like a rabid dog does water. Mathematically FE doesn't hold up and they know it.

Please elaborate which math doesn't work on the flat earth.

Geometry and Trigonometry for starters. Both branches of math prove beyond all doubt that the Earth is a sphere, yet it is ignored here out of hand.

You were shown in detail what the math proves and your response was along the lines of "what are you saying." My grade school grandchildren got the point.

Now of course you are going to dismiss this math and a thousand years and more of its proof because, 1. You really don't understand, nor do you want to. Or 2. You just like to think you are causing problems.

If it is point 2. you are an abject failure. I have taken each opportunity  presented to do more research on math, science, experimentation, and history. Learning is fun and helpful to my writing.

Have a nice evening, I must go, as I have a lot yet to do.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: BCGreenwood on April 08, 2016, 10:54:20 PM
I think most flat earthers accept their theory falls apart if they admit gravity is the force holding us on to the Earth.

The problem is if they don't believe in gravity they generally believe it's the Earth constantly accelerating upwards. They don't realise this is an even bigger problem because in less than a year we would be travelling faster than the speed of light.

They've tried to rectify this with Einstein's special relativity but have run in to an even bigger problem that they simply don't address.
Believing that the Earth is experiencing length contraction (so it won't pass the speed of light) they would have to accept that the mass of every object on Earth is approaching infinity.
Unless of course they believe that the palm of their hand has greater mass than a super massive black hole.

In general they shy away from math like a rabid dog does water. Mathematically FE doesn't hold up and they know it.

Please elaborate which math doesn't work on the flat earth.

The part where you seem to think that the palm of your hand has more mass than a black hole.
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: rabinoz on April 09, 2016, 02:17:43 AM
Warning, warning, warning this will be considered tl;dr for most so bail out here and go directly to gaol[1]!

Impossibility of UA

To me there seems to be another big problem with UA. We are told that because of Special Relativity the Flat Earth can never exceed the velocity of light. OK, no problem, but we also have "time dilation", meaning time would now be passing on earth much (very much!) slower than on an inertial frame of reference.

Now, presumably there IS some inertial frame of reference and is has been there since the earth started accelerating. We are told that there is the Aether we are "pushing through" creating a bow-wave etc (that may theflatearthsociety.org's idea? - whatever) and the "Dark Energy" that is doing all this accelerating. Presumably this Aether and Dark Energy are in this "Inertial Frame of Reference" and was there at the "Creation Date" or whenever everything started.

So I thought I would try (try being the operative word, as you might see later!) to find the elapsed time in this "Inertial Frame of Reference". To keep the time as short as possible (you see I did forsee a problem or two) I tried with Bishop Ussher's "Creation Date", which everyone here knows was on October 23, 4004 BC, so roughly 6020 years ago (earth time). Well that did not work!

Now on the site Relativistic Star Ship Calculator (http://convertalot.com/relativistic_star_ship_calculator.html) there is a neat calculator. It is meant to calculate the time on a near light-speed starship travelling away from a relatively stationary earth.
But, if we turn it around and use "Earth" in the calculator as our "Inertial Frame of Reference" and the "Starship" as the acceleration earth we can use it for our calculations.

So, if the earth were to start accelerating at 9.8 m/s2 13.8 billion years ago[2] (I don't know that I agree with the age!) by now, due to time slowing down on the accelerating earth (that is Time Dilation) only 45.3 years would have elapsed on our earth according to the "Relativistic Star Ship Calculator".

Now, since to the best of my memory I am rather older than 45.3 years, this all gets a bit hard to explain (of course, I cannot prove that the earth was not created in its then state  ;D "Last Thursday"! - don't laugh Last Thursdayism (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Last_Thursdayism)  ;D).

Actually, I disagree[3] a little with the "Relativistic Star Ship Calculator" and using the equations on the right ---->
would claim that for only 23.33 years Earth time the Aether, Dark Energy and whatever else must have been around for at least 13.8 billion years. The difference between my figures and the "Relativistic Star Ship Calculator" figures makes no real difference to the conclusion.
Spacer
(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w433/RabDownunder/Relativistic%20acceleration%20calculations_zpsb87ojvni.png)
Unless there is "absolutely nothing" outside the "earth and firmament" then there is no way the earth could have been accelerating for any reasonably long period - even Bishop Ussher's 6020 years! If there is "absolutely nothing" outside, what does the "Dark Energy" act on? And where is the Aether for these "Bow Waves"?

I would love some "expert" to peruse these figures! Any experts on relativity in the house?


[1] Gaol - you did not pass go and did not collect any Brownie Points!

[2] This "maximum time" is chosen to extend the "time since creation" as long as possible!

[3] I chased this up not to prove the "Relativistic Star Ship Calculator" wrong, but to get around some of the "NaNs", but didn't get far - Excel can only calculate years up to 10308! Mind you even that is a mind bogglingly massively outlandish length of time!


<< Edit: Increased equation size, added title, then fixed a footnote >>
Title: Re: gravity
Post by: rabinoz on April 10, 2016, 01:11:57 AM
I guess we can scrap the whole idea of UA then, as no-one seems keen to refute my tl;dr on the utter impossibility of it in Impossibility of UA (https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=4666.msg93898#msg93898).

I was hoping some expert of SR or GR might come along and tell me how I simply did not understand Relativity!
They could very well be right, but it would be nice to know just where!