The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Theory => Topic started by: Orbisect-64 on August 27, 2015, 12:53:30 AM

Title: nothing about anything
Post by: Orbisect-64 on August 27, 2015, 12:53:30 AM
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Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon
Post by: Dog on September 14, 2015, 06:09:06 AM
This doesn't address why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon. You just drew a picture with some boats and swells.

To answer the question: boat masts (and boats themselves) appear to sink over the horizon because the Earth is a sphere. This is obvious if you grab binoculars (or a telescope) and watch a ship go to the horizon on a clear day. Yes there will be some haze but the event is still (http://stupidconspiracies.org/misc/ship_below_horizon.jpg) perfectly (https://mathscinotes.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/1171149515_501c7dc22c_o.jpg) observable (http://www.kayarchy.com/images/02technique/106%20distance%20to%20horizon.jpg). Ideally you would pick a place with little swell and pick a viewing point maybe 10-20 feet above the water. If there are tsunamis (as evidenced in your illustration) you can pick a higher viewpoint. Of course you would then be able to see further (as shown in my thrid link), so you would need to wait longer for the ship to "sink".
Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon
Post by: Thork on September 14, 2015, 08:45:40 AM
Go to hell... I mean GO HOME SHILL.

It answers the question quite nicely. You are looking at the swells in front of you, which causes you to look slightly upward. Boats in the distance will appear to sink because you can only see as much of the boat as the swells will permit.

I don't expect morons to possess the comprehension skills to get it.

Man, you would think they would pay intelligent people to be shills. I feel gipped, all we get are the idiots. ;)



Please stop with all the shilliness. It is only Eric Dubay that thinks this. No one is paid to promote flat earth, neither is anyone who comes to this site likely to be a paid government stooge. Use your brains. You are making our society seem paranoid, cultish, delusional and childish.
Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon
Post by: Furyan5 on September 23, 2015, 04:45:48 PM
The answer is simple. Light waves are repelled by gravity. As the light from the ship travels towards you, it is pushed upwards. The further away it gets, the further the light is bent.

Sent from my YOGA Tablet 2-830L using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon
Post by: Anti FE on November 16, 2015, 05:38:17 PM
The answer is simple. Light waves are repelled by gravity. As the light from the ship travels towards you, it is pushed upwards. The further away it gets, the further the light is bent.

Sent from my YOGA Tablet 2-830L using Tapatalk

Light travels much to quickly for this to be true, as you would need much more gravity and alot more space to work with for light to be effected by gravity that much
Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon
Post by: andruszkow on November 17, 2015, 07:30:11 AM
It has nothing to do with gravity.

Masts sink over the horizon because of the curvature, it's that simple. With specific weather conditions, it will even appear to be more hidden, or more visible on certain days, given the same distance.

Atmospheric refraction is the same reason why the Moon can appear to "ripple" given certain weather conditions, and also what causes you too see a mirror-like illusion on road on very hot summerdays.
Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon
Post by: geckothegeek on November 24, 2015, 01:52:45 AM
It has nothing to do with gravity.

Masts sink over the horizon because of the curvature, it's that simple. With specific weather conditions, it will even appear to be more hidden, or more visible on certain days, given the same distance.

Atmospheric refraction is the same reason why the Moon can appear to "ripple" given certain weather conditions, and also what causes you too see a mirror-like illusion on road on very hot summerdays.

I realize there are possibly many others on this website who have had no experience at this "ship passing over the horizon" subject and might think there is some question about the actual experience.

But those of us who have had the fortunate actual experience know the subject is simply due to the fact that the earth is the sphere, or globe that it is and the ship gradually disappears, hull first and finally the top of the mast pass out of view. And the distance to the horizon depends on the height of the observer. If the earth was flat there would be no need for placing crow's nests or radar antennas as high as they are  to "see" the greatest distance. This is also the same as far as land is concerned. Sailing away from a port, the shoreline passes out of view and gradually the tops of mountains or hills are the last seen points of land before they pass completely out of view.

To those of us who have had some experience in this matter, this seems to be one of the most fallacious of the flat earth fallacies. To anyone who has any doubts, I would suggest they talk to some one in the Navy, for example. Some navigation officer, preferably one in active duty with considerable experience , would be the best source to set this straight about this and explain why the flat earth idea is so false. Of course, I would imagine a flat earther would just say they were being fed a bunch of lies. But the bottom line, it is because of the shape of the earth - a globe and not a flat disc - is the reason for this phenomenon - not "swells" or any of the flat earth fallacies. Just check it out with someone who knows something about it.....If you dare, flat earthers.

Ever wonder why those sailors on those old ships - in the crow's nests high on the masts - were the first to call out "Land Ho !" when they neared a seaport or an  island ?

Since this is the debate section I think it would be safe to say that this is just one more flat earth fallacy that can be easily de-bunked. I hope I won't get banned for posting this on this section . But I am used to that and can abide with that. The other bannings were for posting on the Q&A  section. But I think this is a "Question" as to why ships pass out of view on the ocean with an "Answer" as to the real reason as to why and how they do.

You might also check into the subject of the maps, or charts, that are used for oceanic navigation. Are they made directly from a flat earth map of the earth or are they made from various projections from the globe of the earth ? 
Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon
Post by: Aether on November 30, 2015, 06:48:20 PM

No offense Thork, but as I've pointed out, go over the the hollow earth forums. They don't have people trying to convince them the earth is a ball.

Um, go back to the hollow earth forums and try to read, they already believe the earth is round. No need to convince them of a spherical earth, just need them to come out of the closet....er, I mean the earth.
Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon
Post by: Atlas22 on December 04, 2015, 05:50:57 PM
Yea and the Horizon is lie cause its a curve? Right? Without Antarctica the ocean would spill on bottom of the Universe... ALL OF YOU YOU ARE LOSING MENTAL HEALHT! And... GO TO SCHOOL
Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon
Post by: Fletcher on December 07, 2015, 06:26:19 AM
Aren't ships supposed to lean backwards when they disappear over the horizon? The same thing should be true for tall buildings.
Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon
Post by: geckothegeek on December 10, 2015, 01:18:22 AM
Aren't ships supposed to lean backwards when they disappear over the horizon? The same thing should be true for tall buildings.

The distance is so small it is not noticeable. One of the problems I have noticed from flat earthers is that they make these weird statements . Apparently many of them have never been to sea and have had first hand experience in observing ships sailing beyond the horizon , whether watching them with or without Telescopes or Binoculars. The same as watching an island or the mainland appear or disappear when leaving or nearing them.  It is all simply a matter of the curvature of the earth because the earth is a globe.

In the words of Sherlock Holmes- Elementary, My Dear Watson....OK,  sherlockians,he didn't  really say it that way...LOL..but anyway....
Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the Thorizon
Post by: geckothegeek on December 10, 2015, 01:30:06 AM
This shilly-Ness is one of the greatest silly-Ness of the flat earth cult ...IMHO anyway....LOL

Another problem seems to be that they take the Word Of Samuel Burley Rowbotham as The Gospel Truth without question.
Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon
Post by: geckothegeek on December 10, 2015, 02:28:23 AM
In reference to this mention of swells...There are days when the ocean is perfectly calm and there are no swells. Even if there were  some they would have very little effect on this ship over the horizon subject. Only the curvature of the earth involved. Speaking from personal experience and obsevation.
Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon
Post by: mikeman7918 on December 11, 2015, 04:30:10 PM
Aren't ships supposed to lean backwards when they disappear over the horizon? The same thing should be true for tall buildings.

I have done the calculations multiple times and it turns out that they are only supposed to lean backwards by a tiny fraction of a degree.  I could do the calculations again if you want.

The answer is simple. Light waves are repelled by gravity. As the light from the ship travels towards you, it is pushed upwards. The further away it gets, the further the light is bent.

What you claim is in direct violation of general relativity and special relativity.  It doesn't just conflict with a minor prediction, it is in direct violation of the core principals of these theories and the only way for it to work is for a model that allows relativistic paradoxes to happen.  Anything repelling gravity is physically impossible, unless you debunk relativity.  Relativity is based on Maxwell's equations for electromagnetism, so you can start by proving that magnetism, electricity, and light don't exist.
Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on December 12, 2015, 12:05:37 AM
In relation to ship masts, lighthouses are built specifically with the curvature of the earth in mind.
Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon
Post by: LuggerSailor on December 12, 2015, 01:06:33 PM
The known height of lighthouses and the height of an observer is also used to determine the distance between the two when the light first becomes visible above the horizon;

http://www.sailtrain.co.uk/navigation/rising.htm (http://www.sailtrain.co.uk/navigation/rising.htm)

Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon
Post by: sandokhan on December 15, 2015, 11:47:51 AM
Relativity is based on Maxwell's equations for electromagnetism, so you can start by proving that magnetism, electricity, and light don't exist.

Einstein made the very same mistake:

Einstein, 1905:

"The principle of the constancy of the velocity of light is of course contained in Maxwell's equations”

But those are not Maxwell's equations at all; on the contrary, they are the Heaviside-Lorentz equations:

(http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/annotations/annot1420a.gif)

In fact, NdG Tyson shows the same ignorance on the subject:

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/dharanis1/mxl1_zps4aef76b3.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/dharanis1/mxl2_zpsa4365261.jpg)

(from the Cosmos series)

HERE ARE THE REAL ETHER MAXWELL'S EQUATIONS:

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/dharanis1/maxwell1_zps50d1cc1a.jpg)

THE SPEED OF LIGHT IS VARIABLE, AND NOT CONSTANT.

The Speed of Light

http://gsjournal.net/Science-Journals/Research%20Papers-Mechanics%20/%20Electrodynamics/Download/5373


http://www.cheniere.org/correspondence/030706.htm

(step by step demonstration how the set of Maxwell's original equations was censored/modified)

The much-reduced Heaviside-Gibbs-Hertz limited version of Maxwell's theory, with the added Lorentz symmetrization and arbitrary discarding of all asymmetrical Maxwellian systems, has since been taught as "Maxwell's theory". It is Heaviside's equations and Heaviside's notations, as further limited by Lorentz.

In 1892 Lorentz added the coup de grace to even this much-reduced Heaviside vector theory with simple equations and much fewer potentials. Lorentz arbitrarily symmetrized the equations to make them simpler yet, so that closed algebraic solutions could usually be found and one would not have to use numerical methods so widely. He did it merely to simplify the equations to NEW equations having much easier solutions! That he changed the potentials was considered of no consequence, so long as no NET translation force field emerged (even though two new force fields were arbitrarily introduced).



http://www.cheniere.org/articles/Deliberate%20Discard.htm

(superb documentation on the reasons why Maxwell's original set of equations was deliberately eliminated from textbooks)

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1639521#msg1639521


unless you debunk relativity

This has to be a joke, right?

There is no such thing as the theory of relativity:

http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=2715.msg80203#msg80203
Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon
Post by: mikeman7918 on December 15, 2015, 06:06:50 PM
Sandokhan, that's a nice claim you got there.  It would be a shame if someone were to look into it.

But those are not Maxwell's equations at all; on the contrary, they are the Heaviside-Lorentz equations:

Heaviside-Lorentz equations?  Do you mean Heaviside-Lorentz units, which are a set of standards about how units are expressed in physics equations?  Maxwell's equations in Heaviside-Lorentz units are still Maxwell's equations because they are the same exept they are written in a different equivelent form.

As for the "real" equations, I have searched and searched and I cannot find where you got your information.  In all the sources you cited I did not find where you got the most important part of your argument on which everything else is built, which is that Maxwell's equations don't require the speed of light to be a constant.  I don't even know what all te variables mean in those "real" equations so I can't do anything with them.

Your post also doesn't address the fact that special relativity and general relativity have been proven experimentally multiple times.  One famous experient is one where an atomic clock was put on a plane and another perfectly synced one was left on the ground and when the plane flew around the world the clocks were offset by a tiny amount that matches perfectly with presictions made by relativity equations.  This experiment was repeated multiple times with different clocks, different planes, and different flight paths all with simelar results.

There is another experiment where the speed of light was measured coming from the Sun at sunset and sunrise.  The Sun rises to the east of you and sets to the west of you, so there is no question that it moves west relative to you no matter what model you use.  The experiment found that the speed of light was the same in both instances.  This experiment was repeated multiple times with simelar results.  This experiment lead to the theory that light travels at light speed relative to the "aether", but that model failed to explain so much.
Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon
Post by: sandokhan on December 15, 2015, 07:39:43 PM
You haven't done your homework at all.

Here is the original paper containing the ORIGINAL ETHER MAXWELL'S EQUATIONS:

http://vacuum-physics.com/Maxwell/maxwell_oplf.pdf

Dr. Frederick Tombe has undertaken a painstaking research in order to discover how the original Maxwell equations have been modified into their currently known form, and why it was done.

http://www.nanotechinnov.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Maxwell-Original-Equations.pdf

While Maxwell refers to twenty equations at the end of this section, there are in fact
only eight equations as such. Maxwell arrives at the figure of twenty because he splits
six of these equations into their three Cartesian components. Maxwell’s eight original
equations,

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/dharanis1/maxwell1_zps50d1cc1a.jpg)

Modern day sets of Maxwell’s equations therefore only contain three of the original
set, with two of these having been amalgamated into one.

http://web.archive.org/web/20071006083222/http://www.wbabin.net/science/tombe4.pdf


The Distortion of Maxwell's Equations

http://www.cartesio-episteme.net/ep8/distortion.pdf


Maxwell was most certainly not a stepping stone for Einstein as is often
suggested, even by some anti-relativists. Maxwell’s most important work has
been swept under the carpet and a set of equations with a partial connection to
Maxwell have been promoted in his name and used in a manner which is far
removed from Maxwell’s theory of electromagnetism.


Step by step account of how HEAVISIDE AND LORENTZ modified the original set of equations to eliminate from public knowledge the ether terms contained in Maxwell's equations.

http://www.cheniere.org/correspondence/030706.htm


What you are referring to is the Hafele-Keating experiment (1972).

No proof at all for any theory of relativity.

http://www.gsjournal.net/old/science/rickeressen.pdf (Louis Essen, the greatest expert on atomic clocks of the 20th century, dismisses the very experiment)

http://www.anti-relativity.com/hafelekeatingdebunk.htm (total debunking of the failed Hafele-Keating experiment, a must read)


For the second "experiment" you opened a thread here one year ago:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62515.0#.VnBnS9J961s

EINSTEIN FALLACIES:

http://web.archive.org/web/20090309113407/http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/relativ.htm


REASONS WHY EINSTEIN WAS WRONG:

http://web.archive.org/web/20120205135201/http://www.kevin.harkess.btinternet.co.uk/reasons_einstein_wrong/reasons_einstein_wrong.html (one of the best works on the variability of light)


EINSTEIN'S THEORY OF RELATIVITY: SCIENTIFIC THEORY OR ILLUSION? by Milan Pavlovic

http://web.archive.org/web/20080705084812/http://users.net.yu/~mrp/chapter5.html


“it is difficult to find a theory so popular, and yet so unclear, incomplete, paradoxical
and contradictory, as is the theory of relativity…. The special theory of relativity can be said to be, in essence, a sum of deceptions.”



ALBERT IN RELATIVITYLAND

http://www.gsjournal.net/old/ntham/amesbury.pdf

However, space-time as a fourth dimension is nothing more than the product of professor Minkowski's cerebral and mathematical imagination.


Here is a critical view to each and every aspect of the relativity theory:

http://www.gsjournal.net/old/ntham/amesbury.pdf


The most extraordinary proofs on HOW EINSTEIN FAKED HIS 1919/1922 DATA FOR THE SO CALLED EINSTEIN SHIFT:

http://einstein52.tripod.com/alberteinsteinprophetorplagiarist/id9.html


http://www.ekkehard-friebe.de/dishones.htm (scroll down to the section: With regard to the politics that led to Einstein's fame Dr. S. Chandrasekhar's article [46] states...)


http://web.archive.org/web/20070202201854/http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/einstein.html



HOW EINSTEIN MODIFIED HIS FORMULA RELATING TO MERCURY'S ORBIT IN ORDER TO FIT THE RESULTS:

http://www.gravitywarpdrive.com/Rethinking_Relativity.htm (scroll down to The advance of the perihelion of Mercury’s orbit, another famous confirmation of General Relativity, is worth a closer look...)


Dr. F. Schmeidler of the Munich University Observatory has published a paper  titled "The Einstein Shift An Unsettled Problem," and a plot of shifts for 92 stars for the 1922 eclipse shows shifts going in all directions, many of them going the wrong way by as large a deflection as those shifted in the predicted direction! Further examination of the 1919 and 1922 data originally interpreted as confirming relativity, tended to favor a larger shift, the results depended very strongly on the manner for reducing the measurements and the effect of omitting individual stars.


Now, here is the 100% correct proof for the existence of ether, the Galaev ether-drift results:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1722791#msg1722791
Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon
Post by: mikeman7918 on December 16, 2015, 04:20:19 PM
I skimmed through your articles and lost count of how many logical fallacies I saw.  The people you linked to clearly had no understanding of relativity.  For example: one of your sources said that people who believe in relativity doubted that GPS would work yet it does, but in reality the reason it works is because they account for relativity by resetting the clocks whenever time dilation offsets them.

As for Maxwell's equations being "altered", all alterations made kept the same function of the equations such that plugging in the same numbers in both will yield the same result.  It's kind of like how X=2Y is the same as 2X=4Y and -X+2Y=0.  Any and all solutions for one of these equations are solutions for the other two, so they are basically the same equation even though they look different.  The same thing happened with Maxwell's equations, exept a few were added together F(G(X)) style.

Some of your sources mentioned that Maxewll believed in an Aether, as did most scientists of the time.  The reason people stopped believing in it is because experiments kept failing to detect it and the theory had more holes then Swiss cheese.  It was replaced by relativity because that theory had math to prove it that nobody could refute and it was confirmed hundreds of times by experiment.
Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon
Post by: sandokhan on December 16, 2015, 05:04:06 PM
mike, wake up.

AETHER FRAME DRAGGING GPS:

http://www.cellularuniverse.org/R1RelativityofTime.pdf

http://worldnpa.org/abstracts/abstracts_1130.pdf

http://www.cellularuniverse.org/R1RelativityofTime.pdf

http://arxiv.org/ftp/physics/papers/0502/0502007.pdf



Dayton Miller ether drift proofs:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=60367.msg1563058#msg1563058

Yuri Galaev ether drift proofs:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1722791#msg1722791


A careful look at every term of the original set of Maxwell's ether equations and how the main terms were eliminated by both Heaviside and Lorentz:


http://gsjournal.net/Science-Journals/Essays-Mechanics%20/%20Electrodynamics/Download/3889


The much-reduced Heaviside-Gibbs-Hertz limited version of Maxwell's theory, with the added Lorentz symmetrization and arbitrary discarding of all asymmetrical Maxwellian systems, has since been taught as "Maxwell's theory". It is Heaviside's equations and Heaviside's notations, as further limited by Lorentz.

Even more details on how the original equations were altered by Lorentz to eliminate the ether terms:

http://www.cheniere.org/articles/Deliberate%20Discard.htm

In a tragedy for science (if not for society in general) whose outlines we are only now beginning to appreciate, after Maxwell's death, two other 19th Century "mathematical physicists" -- Oliver Heaviside and William Gibbs -- "streamlined" Maxwell's original equations down to four simple (if woefully incomplete!) expressions. Because Heaviside openly felt the quaternions were "an abomination" -- never fully understanding the linkage between the critical scalar and vector components in Maxwell's use of them to describe the potentials of empty space ("apples and oranges," he termed them) -- he eliminated over 200 quaternions from Maxwell's original theory in his attempted "simplification."

This means, of course, that the four surviving "classic" Maxwell's Equations -- which appear in every electrical and physics text the world over, as the underpinnings of all 20th Century electrical and electromagnetic engineering, from radio to radar, from television to computer science, if not inclusive of every "hard" science from physics to chemistry to astrophysics that deals with electromagnetic radiative processes -- never appeared in any original Maxwell' paper or treatise! They are, in fact--

"Heaviside's equations!"

To then state that,

As for Maxwell's equations being "altered", all alterations made kept the same function of the equations such that plugging in the same numbers in both will yield the same result.

means you have lost touch with reality.


The reason people stopped believing in it is because experiments kept failing to detect it and the theory had more holes then Swiss cheese.

Dr. Dayton Miller's ether drift experiments did detect carefully and beautifully for years, during his famous experiments on the same subject.

Dr. Yuri Galaev's performed even more carefully designed ether drift results: the ether was detected, please read his groundbreaking papers.
Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon
Post by: mikeman7918 on December 16, 2015, 06:53:24 PM
I am currently banned from the flat Earth society forum, so I can't view your sources for the ether experiments.

Your other sources started loosing credibility when one said that modern physics denies the existence of centrifugal force as if physicists believe that a spinning object would not feel an aperent outward pull.  Physicists don't deny that an aperent outward pull exists, what they deny is the notion that it's an actual force field pushing something out as the term "centrifugal force" implies.  The point is, my confidence in the credibility of your sources is deminishing by the minute.  Another one of your sources flat out lied about what relativity predicts about gravity.  Seriously, find better sources.

Your logic seems to be "Maxwell was right about electromagnetism, and he believed that Aether exists so he must be right about that too.  Einstein was the one who debunked the notion of Aether, and since he apears to be wrong about that he must be wrong about everything else too".

How about this: I will accept that relativity is false once you produce one observation that contradicts a relativistic prediction.  Should be easy enough, right?
Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon
Post by: sandokhan on December 16, 2015, 07:16:04 PM
There are plenty of observations which nullify the theory of relativity: the ether-drift results of Miller and Galaev, the Biefeld-Brown effect, the Nipher effect, the Lamoreaux effect, the Kozyrev effect, the DePalma effect.

For you, the effect discovered by a Nobel prize winner: THE ALLAIS EFFECT.

"During the total eclipses of the sun on June 30, 1954, and October 22, 1959, quite analogous deviations of the plane of oscillation of the paraconical pendulum were observed..." - Maurice Allais, 1988 Nobel autobiographical lecture.

In a marathon experiment, Maurice Allais released a Foucault pendulum every 14 minutes - for 30 days and nights -without missing a data point. He recorded the direction of rotation (in degrees) at his Paris laboratory. This energetic show of human endurance happened to overlap with the 1954 solar eclipse. During the eclipse, the pendulum took an unexpected turn, changing its angle of rotation by 13.5 degrees.

Allais' pendulum experiments earned him the 1959 Galabert Prize of the French Astronautical Society, and in 1959 he was made a laureate of the United States Gravity Research Foundation.

Dr. Maurice Allais:  Should the laws of gravitation be reconsidered?

http://allais.maurice.free.fr/English/media10-12.htm

In the present status of the discussion, the abnormalities observed can be accounted for only by considering the existence of a new field. (page 12)



CONFIRMATION OF THE ALLAIS EFFECT DURING THE 2003 SOLAR ECLIPSE:

http://www.acad.ro/sectii2002/proceedings/doc3_2004/03_Mihaila.pdf

(it also shows that the effect was confirmed during the August 1999 solar eclipse)


CONFIRMATION OF THE ALLAIS EFFECT DURING THE SEPT. 2006 SOLAR ECLIPSE:

http://www.hessdalen.org/sse/program/Articol.pdf


CONFIRMATION OF THE ALLAIS EFFECT DURING THE 2008 SOLAR ECLIPSE:

http://stoner.phys.uaic.ro/jarp/index.php/jarp/article/viewFile/40/22


Given the above, the authors consider that it is an inescapable conclusion from our experiments that after the end of the visible eclipse, as the Moon departed the angular vicinity of the Sun, some influence exerted itself upon the Eastern European region containing our three sets of equipment, extending over a field at least hundreds of kilometers in width.
The nature of this common influence is unknown, but plainly it cannot be considered as gravitational in the usually accepted sense of Newtonian or Einsteinian gravitation.

Dr. Maurice Allais:

“… the current theory of gravitation (being the result of the application, within the current theory of relative motions, of the principles of inertia and universal gravitation to any one of the Galilean spaces) complemented or not by the corrections suggested by the theory of relativity, leads to orders of magnitude [many factors of ten] for lunar and solar action (which are strictly not to be perceived experimentally) of some 100 million times less than the effects noted [during the eclipse] ... [emphasis added].”

In other words, the pendulum motions Allais observed during his two eclipses – 1954 and 1959 -- were physically IMPOSSIBLE … according to all known “textbook physics!”


Dr. Erwin Saxl, "1970 Solar Eclipse as 'Seen' by a Torsion Pendulum"

Saxl and Allen went on to note that to explain these remarkable eclipse observations, according to "conventional Newtonian/Einsteinian gravitational theory," an increase in the weight of the pendumum bob itself on the order of ~5% would be required ... amounting to (for the ~51.5-lb pendulum bob in the experiment) an increase of ~2.64 lbs!

This would be on the order of one hundred thousand (100,000) times greater than any possible "gravitational tidal effects" Saxl and Allen calculated (using Newtonian Gravitational Theory/ Relativity Theory) for even the 180-degree, "opposite" alignment of the sun and moon ... which, as previously noted, was also directly measured via the torsion pendulum (dasned green line - above) two weeks after the March 7 eclipse!


HERE ARE THE PRECISE CALCULATIONS INVOLVING THE ALLAIS EFFECT:

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/dharanis1/Capture_zpskd3rcykr.jpg)

Dr. Maurice Allais:

In both cases, with the experiments with the anisotropic
support and with those with the isotropic support, it is found
that the amplitudes of the periodic effects are considerably
greater than those calculated according to the law of gravitation,
whether or not completed by the theory of relativity.
In the case of the anisotropic support, the amplitude of
the luni-solar component of 24h 50m is about twenty million
times greater than the amplitude calculated by the theory of
universal gravitation.

In the case of the paraconical pendulum with isotropic
support, this relation is about a hundred million.


Thus, neither the regular cyclical variation of the pendulum, nor the
anomalous behavior at the time of solar eclipse can be explained by the
presently understood theory of gravitation. Something else is at work.

In order to arrive at an explanation, M. Allais considered a wide range
of known periodic phenomena, including the terrestrial tides, variations in
the intensity of gravity, thermal or barometric effects, magnetic variations,
microseismic effects, cosmic rays, and the periodic character of human
activity. Yet, on close examination, the very peculiar nature of the
periodicity shown by the change in azimuth of the pendulum forced the
elimination of all of these as cause.

(http://www.enterprisemission.com/Allais-Pendulum.jpg)

"Allais noted that the normal, progressive "Foucault motion" of his laboratory's uniquely-designed "paraconical pendulum," during the eclipse, suddenly reversed ... and literally "ran backwards" ... until mid-eclipse, when the pendulum motion reversed again ... rapidly resuming its normal rate and direction of angular rotation (below) ....


Dr. Maurice Allais:

With regard to the validity of my experiments, it seems
best to reproduce here the testimony of General Paul Bergeron,
ex-president of the Committee for Scientific Activities for
National Defense, in his letter of May 1959 to Werner von
Braun:

"Before writing to you, I considered it necessary to
visit the two laboratories of Professor Allais (one 60
meters underground), in the company of eminent
specialists – including two professors at the Ecole
Polytechnique. During several hours of discussion, we
could find no source of significant error, nor did any
attempt at explanation survive analysis.

"I should also tell you that during the last two years,
more than ten members of the Academy of Sciences and
more than thirty eminent personalities, specialists in
various aspects of gravitation, have visited both his
laboratory at Saint-Germain, and his underground
laboratory at Bougival.

"Deep discussions took place, not only on these
occasions, but many times in various scientific contexts,
notably at the Academy of Sciences and the National
Center for Scientific Research. None of these discussions
could evolve any explanation within the framework of
currently accepted theories."

This letter confirms clearly the fact that was finally
admitted at the time - the total impossibility of explaining the
perceived anomalies within the framework of currently
accepted theory.
Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon
Post by: mikeman7918 on December 16, 2015, 08:33:58 PM
You clearly don't know much about physics.  Physics as we know it is incomplete and still a work in progress.  No physicist has ever claimed that they know everything about the universe.  Laws of physics are called "laws" for good reason, they state what must happen and what can't happen in the universe and using that framework you can make predictions.  If a law is violated by the universe doing something a law says is impossible or not doing something a law says must happen then that law is disproven, but if those limitations are upheld yet the outcome doesn't match a prediction then that doesn't nesesarily mean that the law is wrong, it most likely just means that something is going on that is not being accounted for.

The Allias effect breaks no laws put forward by relativity as far as I can tell, it simply suggests that something else is going on that nobody is accounting for.  What I am looking for is something that contradicts relativistic laws of what can't and must happen like something going faster then light or proof that time dilation doesn't happen.  Can you do that?
Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon
Post by: sandokhan on December 16, 2015, 08:49:11 PM
The Allias effect breaks no laws put forward by relativity as far as I can tell, it simply suggests that something else is going on that nobody is accounting for.

The fact that you spelled Allias instead of Allais means that you don't know much about spelling either, in addition to your catastrophic knowledge of physics.


The Allais effect destroys, nullifies, buries, violates, shatters, defies any theory of relativity.

(http://www.enterprisemission.com/Allais-Pendulum.jpg)

"Allais noted that the normal, progressive "Foucault motion" of his laboratory's uniquely-designed "paraconical pendulum," during the eclipse, suddenly reversed ... and literally "ran backwards" ... until mid-eclipse, when the pendulum motion reversed again ... rapidly resuming its normal rate and direction of angular rotation (below) ....


Do you understand English, mike?

THE PENDULUM'S MOTION REVERSED SUDDENLY, IT RAN BACKWARDS, UNTIL MID-ECLIPSE WHEN THE MOTION REVERSED AGAIN, RESUMING ITS NORMAL RATE.



Dr. Maurice Allais:

In both cases, with the experiments with the anisotropic
support and with those with the isotropic support, it is found
that the amplitudes of the periodic effects are considerably
greater than those calculated according to the law of gravitation,
whether or not completed by the theory of relativity.
In the case of the anisotropic support, the amplitude of
the luni-solar component of 24h 50m is about twenty million
times greater than the amplitude calculated by the theory of
universal gravitation.

In the case of the paraconical pendulum with isotropic
support, this relation is about a hundred million.


Do you understand English, mike?

It is found that the amplitudes of the periodic effects are considerably
greater than those calculated according to the law of gravitation,
whether or not completed by the theory of relativity.
In the case of the anisotropic support, the amplitude of
the luni-solar component of 24h 50m is about twenty million
times greater than the amplitude calculated by the theory of
universal gravitation.

In the case of the paraconical pendulum with isotropic
support, this relation is about a hundred million.


A complete demolition of the useless theory of relativity.

Dr. Maurice Allais:

“… the current theory of gravitation (being the result of the application, within the current theory of relative motions, of the principles of inertia and universal gravitation to any one of the Galilean spaces) complemented or not by the corrections suggested by the theory of relativity, leads to orders of magnitude [many factors of ten] for lunar and solar action (which are strictly not to be perceived experimentally) of some 100 million times less than the effects noted [during the eclipse] ... [emphasis added].”
Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon
Post by: mikeman7918 on December 16, 2015, 09:06:27 PM
I still can't see any laws of relativity being broken.  By your logic, since magnetism is not predicted by Newton's equations, Newton's equations are wrong.  Also, you are using ad hominem fallacies and acting as if my typo proves something.  You are really getting desperate, aren't you?
Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon
Post by: geckothegeek on December 17, 2015, 03:43:43 AM
I am currently banned from the flat Earth society forum, so I can't view your sources for the ether experiments.

Your other sources started loosing credibility when one said that modern physics denies the existence of centrifugal force as if physicists believe that a spinning object would not feel an aperent outward pull.  Physicists don't deny that an aperent outward pull exists, what they deny is the notion that it's an actual force field pushing something out as the term "centrifugal force" implies.  The point is, my confidence in the credibility of your sources is deminishing by the minute.  Another one of your sources flat out lied about what relativity predicts about gravity.  Seriously, find better sources.

Your logic seems to be "Maxwell was right about electromagnetism, and he believed that Aether exists so he must be right about that too.  Einstein was the one who debunked the notion of Aether, and since he apears to be wrong about that he must be wrong about everything else too".

How about this: I will accept that relativity is false once you produce one observation that contradicts a relativistic prediction.  Should be easy enough, right?

I am also currently banned from The Flat Earth Society Forum. If it's any consolation, you are not alone. ;D I've just about had it with that website and trying to break the  habit. I'm ashamed and embarrassed  to admit I visit that website, much less that I post on it. :-[ For all the vulgarity that is permitted, that website is a disgrace to the Internet......At least IMHO.

I just happened on this thread  and I'm not as familiar with your discussion, so I will leave it with you and sandokhan. Therefore, it just looks to me as if sandokhan has once again attempted to derail the simple subject of "Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon." The highest I ever got in that subject was an ET1 in the U.S. Navy (Electronic Technician, First Class Petty Officer)So at least I am familiar with that thing called "the distance to the horizon" as far as the particular radar on the ship on which I served as a radar technician.

I wouldn't be surprised if sandokhan would say that since there is no horizon or there is no such thing as the speed of radio waves that  that radar wouldn't work. And if so it wouldn't be accurate. But if you will take my word for it, it worked just fine according to the specifications in the technical manual.

The answer to the question is of course simple....It is because there is something called "the horizon" and there is something called "the curvature of the earth" and there is something called "the globe."

If the earth was flat , there would be no horizon- there would just be a blur that fades away into the distance - You know - "'Way beyond the blue" LOL. There would be no curvature. There would be no globe. It seems that to be a flat earther you have to take an oath to deny all the facts of life ?

This "ship over the horizon" seems to be one of the worst theories fallacies of flat earth and the easiest de-bunked of them by simple observations.

Well......At least.....Just one of many.
Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on December 24, 2015, 07:01:39 PM
I am currently banned from the flat Earth society forum, so I can't view your sources for the ether experiments.

Your other sources started loosing credibility when one said that modern physics denies the existence of centrifugal force as if physicists believe that a spinning object would not feel an aperent outward pull.  Physicists don't deny that an aperent outward pull exists, what they deny is the notion that it's an actual force field pushing something out as the term "centrifugal force" implies.  The point is, my confidence in the credibility of your sources is deminishing by the minute.  Another one of your sources flat out lied about what relativity predicts about gravity.  Seriously, find better sources.

Your logic seems to be "Maxwell was right about electromagnetism, and he believed that Aether exists so he must be right about that too.  Einstein was the one who debunked the notion of Aether, and since he apears to be wrong about that he must be wrong about everything else too".

How about this: I will accept that relativity is false once you produce one observation that contradicts a relativistic prediction.  Should be easy enough, right?

I am also currently banned from The Flat Earth Society Forum. If it's any consolation, you are not alone. ;D I've just about had it with that website and trying to break the  habit. I'm ashamed and embarrassed  to admit I visit that website, much less that I post on it. :-[ For all the vulgarity that is permitted, that website is a disgrace to the Internet......At least IMHO.

I just happened on this thread  and I'm not as familiar with your discussion, so I will leave it with you and sandokhan. Therefore, it just looks to me as if sandokhan has once again attempted to derail the simple subject of "Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon." The highest I ever got in that subject was an ET1 in the U.S. Navy (Electronic Technician, First Class Petty Officer)So at least I am familiar with that thing called "the distance to the horizon" as far as the particular radar on the ship on which I served as a radar technician.

I wouldn't be surprised if sandokhan would say that since there is no horizon or there is no such thing as the speed of radio waves that  that radar wouldn't work. And if so it wouldn't be accurate. But if you will take my word for it, it worked just fine according to the specifications in the technical manual.

The answer to the question is of course simple....It is because there is something called "the horizon" and there is something called "the curvature of the earth" and there is something called "the globe."

If the earth was flat , there would be no horizon- there would just be a blur that fades away into the distance - You know - "'Way beyond the blue" LOL. There would be no curvature. There would be no globe. It seems that to be a flat earther you have to take an oath to deny all the facts of life ?

This "ship over the horizon" seems to be one of the worst theories fallacies of flat earth and the easiest de-bunked of them by simple observations.

Well......At least.....Just one of many.

I'm on the other site on a regular basis and your right about all the cussing.
Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon
Post by: rabinoz on December 25, 2015, 12:37:02 PM
Let me know (flat-earthers) how you think I can improve this illustration.
This is what I get:
(http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z336/RegencyRon/View%20Distance%20at%20Sea%20finished_zps9k88hkma.png)
The text is so small I cannot make any of it out.  I must admit I am not a flat earther, but if I cannot read it I cannot get any information from it.
Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon
Post by: geckothegeek on December 27, 2015, 05:54:54 AM
Same problem here with the fine print. ???

Getting back to the original subject. ::)
1. Ships do pass over the horizon.
2. So does land.
3. When ships pass over the horizon, the hulls disappear first and the masts last.
4. When land passes over the horizon, the shores disappear first and the heights last.
5. The distance to the horizon depends on the height of the  observer.
6. The higher the observer, the greater the distance.
7. Crow's nests and radar antennas are located on the highest masts to "see" the greatest distance.
8.This is due to the curvature of the earth.
9.This is because the earth is a globe.

Ask anyone who has ever been to sea if all this is true ?
Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon
Post by: Pete Svarrior on December 27, 2015, 01:53:54 PM
This is what I get:
(http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z336/RegencyRon/View%20Distance%20at%20Sea%20finished_zps9k88hkma.png)
The text is so small I cannot make any of it out.  I must admit I am not a flat earther, but if I cannot read it I cannot get any information from it.
Same problem here with the fine print. ???
Photobucket seems to be quite unintuitive - at least two people couldn't figure out how to zoom in. To hopefully alleviate this at least partially, I re-uploaded the image to my own server.

You can find it here (http://i.omgomg.eu/viewdist.png). Be warned, it's quite large. (5280x1200, and about 25MiB)
Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon
Post by: garygreen on December 27, 2015, 03:56:40 PM
in this image the size of the mast changes as it departs away from the observer.  does the image change scale from right to left?  if the scale is the same, then why does the size of the mast change?
Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon
Post by: model 29 on December 27, 2015, 04:58:56 PM
Yeah, I don't really see how that image demonstrates 'ships appearing to sink'.  It shows how a view from height lower than a wave will block the view of higher objects further away, but as far as the views from the lighthouse, why are their lines of sight limited to specific angles that intersect at a specific point?

Keeping the ships the same scale all the way across would help too.  If orbisect ever comes back anyway.
Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon
Post by: spyderweb on January 02, 2016, 02:49:59 AM
Relativity is based on Maxwell's equations for electromagnetism, so you can start by proving that magnetism, electricity, and light don't exist.

Einstein made the very same mistake:

Einstein, 1905:

"The principle of the constancy of the velocity of light is of course contained in Maxwell's equations”

But those are not Maxwell's equations at all; on the contrary, they are the Heaviside-Lorentz equations:

(http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/annotations/annot1420a.gif)

In fact, NdG Tyson shows the same ignorance on the subject:

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/dharanis1/mxl1_zps4aef76b3.jpg)

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/dharanis1/mxl2_zpsa4365261.jpg)

(from the Cosmos series)

HERE ARE THE REAL ETHER MAXWELL'S EQUATIONS:

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/dharanis1/maxwell1_zps50d1cc1a.jpg)

THE SPEED OF LIGHT IS VARIABLE, AND NOT CONSTANT.

The Speed of Light

http://gsjournal.net/Science-Journals/Research%20Papers-Mechanics%20/%20Electrodynamics/Download/5373


http://www.cheniere.org/correspondence/030706.htm

(step by step demonstration how the set of Maxwell's original equations was censored/modified)

The much-reduced Heaviside-Gibbs-Hertz limited version of Maxwell's theory, with the added Lorentz symmetrization and arbitrary discarding of all asymmetrical Maxwellian systems, has since been taught as "Maxwell's theory". It is Heaviside's equations and Heaviside's notations, as further limited by Lorentz.

In 1892 Lorentz added the coup de grace to even this much-reduced Heaviside vector theory with simple equations and much fewer potentials. Lorentz arbitrarily symmetrized the equations to make them simpler yet, so that closed algebraic solutions could usually be found and one would not have to use numerical methods so widely. He did it merely to simplify the equations to NEW equations having much easier solutions! That he changed the potentials was considered of no consequence, so long as no NET translation force field emerged (even though two new force fields were arbitrarily introduced).



http://www.cheniere.org/articles/Deliberate%20Discard.htm

(superb documentation on the reasons why Maxwell's original set of equations was deliberately eliminated from textbooks)

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1639521#msg1639521


unless you debunk relativity

This has to be a joke, right?

There is no such thing as the theory of relativity:

http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=2715.msg80203#msg80203

I agree with the statement "There is no such thing as the theory of relativity".  Einstein was an industry shill disinformation mill, freemason and illuminati.
Have a look at the website   http://www.blazelabs.com/f-g-intro.asp
It describes a known universe that rules out gravity and employs electromagnetic radiation pressure to explain how the universe works without the theory of gravity which doesn't need 'dark matter' to shore relativity theory up. The only problem I have with the horizon flat earth theory is that light is assumed to travel in a straight line. If the spherical earth theory which orbits the sun, which travels in the outer spiral arm of the milky way, which travels around galactic centre, which travels around the centre of the known universe is true, then light cannot travel in a straight line if everything is moving independently of everything else. Light travelling from point A to Point B will not arrive in a straight line if everything has moved from the initial point. If the established theory of light is used, then it can only travel in multiple curves, it cannot travel in a straight line. That is of course if the portrayed theory of light is correct or understood. I feel that the arguments for a flat earth outweigh the arguments for a spherical earth at this point.
Title: Re: Why ship masts appear to sink over the horizon
Post by: ThinkingOutLoud on January 02, 2016, 04:21:28 AM
You guys are getting really deep with the sinking masts. One of the most basic principles of perspective is called the vanish point. Those disappearing or sinking masts magically reappear upon the surface with the help of a telescope... and if they can reappear on the surface with a telescope.....then what surface are they on?  :)   

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Ships+appear+to+sink+as+they+recede+past+the+horizon