The Flat Earth Society
Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Theory => Topic started by: sandokhan on January 30, 2025, 05:37:06 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5JblNGBuJw
The footage included was shot over 3 hours using an 11-inch Celestron NexStar GPS telescope and a Blackmagic Pocket Cinema camera.
In those three hours, Mars has rotated by almost 90 degrees. If Mars rotates a quarter of a circle in 3 hours, then it makes a full rotation in 12 hours. However, the official full rotation time is ~24 hours and 30 minutes.
On GLP there is a discussion on this topic, but they are not aware of the discrepancy of the rotation time in the video.
Either the author of the video filmed for six hours (the video is for visual effects, and has little to do with astrophysics) or something else is going on.
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https://x.com/astroferg/status/1880672505326960964?t=8zcwcKVpYxfrRVyo7XU8yA&s=19
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Looks decidedly less than 90deg to me
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If we watch the rotation of the NP, it looks like some 90 degrees. Of course, more observations from amateur astronomers are needed.
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I don't know what the np is
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The area around the north pole in the video.
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I watched the bit that starts out in the very center. If it was a full 90 degrees, that section should be entirely to the right, but it's not. If I had to guess, I'd say it looks just slightly past 45deg. I could be underestimating and it could be closer to 60
The north pole doesn't look like it has a lot of distinct features to lock on to, so that feels like an especially bad candidate to base judgements off of.
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The Martian rotation is increasing by 4 milliarcseconds per year squared. That means the Martian day is shortening by a fraction of a millisecond per year.
60 degrees in 3 hours = 480 degrees in 24 hours, a gain of 33% in the rotational speed.
Of course, in FET it is the layers of clouds which are rotating, not the planet itself.
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A Martian sol is a Martian solar day. That is, one rotation relative to the sun. That does not mean that a Martian sol will be the same as it's rotation relative to the earth, which will no doubt vary depending on the current positions of earth and mars in their respective orbits.
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The Martian rotation is increasing by 4 milliarcseconds per year squared. That means the Martian day is shortening by a fraction of a millisecond per year.
60 degrees in 3 hours = 480 degrees in 24 hours, a gain of 33% in the rotational speed.
Of course, in FET it is the layers of clouds which are rotating, not the planet itself.
Right, I was being as generous as possible with my eyeballing if the rotation, I gave a range. I did not say "this is definitely how fast mars is spinning".
You're latching onto a minute detail and thinking this counts as rigorous measurement. It doesn't. This is just silly people on a forum doing silly things. If you are serious, go buy the equipment to film Mars yourself.
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We don't care about the martian "sol", that's RET. In FET, the Earth îs stationary while Mars rotates with respect to the Earth.
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Are you a flat earther?
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(https://web.archive.org/web/20180512121552/https://www.ucl.ac.uk/mathematical-physical-sciences/images/news/Saturn_3D_final6.jpg)
https://web.archive.org/web/20180512121552/https://www.ucl.ac.uk/mathematical-physical-sciences/images/news/Saturn_3D_final6.jpg
Plasma Flux Transfer Events between Saturn and the Sun
A twisted magnetic field structure, previously never seen before at Saturn, has now been detected for the first time ... When the Sun’s magnetic field interacts with the Earth’s magnetic field (the magnetosphere), a complex process occurs called magnetic reconnection which can twist the field into a helical shape. These twisted helically structured magnetic fields are called flux ropes or “flux transfer events” (FTEs) and are observed at Earth and even more commonly at Mercury ...
It is this kind of flux ropes which are the cause of the modification of the rotational speed of Mars. In my opinion it is the start of the reversal of the galactic magnetic field:
https://lweb.cfa.harvard.edu/~reid/bfield.html
This reversal will start in Sagittarius A, and it will affect the silver galactic center (Orion/Gemini):
https://www.e-education.psu.edu/astro801/content/l8_p7.html
https://ascensionglossary.com/images/1/19/Gate_of_Gods144.jpg?20141213053744
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That doesn't sound like stuff a flat earther would say.
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Here is a link to a time lapse of the 3 hour video on X. It’s quite obvious that there is less than 90 degrees of rotation. Probably closer to the 45 degrees that you would expect.
https://x.com/astroferg/status/1880672505326960964?t=8zcwcKVpYxfrRVyo7XU8yA&s=19&mx=2
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The Martian rotation is increasing by 4 milliarcseconds per year squared. That means the Martian day is shortening by a fraction of a millisecond per year.
60 degrees in 3 hours = 480 degrees in 24 hours, a gain of 33% in the rotational speed.
Of course, in FET it is the layers of clouds which are rotating, not the planet itself.
I'm interested what would make the layers of clouds rotate in FET if the planet itself is not.
There's a dark band in the northern hemisphere, it goes about a 3rd of the way across the surface in the 3 hours. Which is about 60 degrees.
But one thing to note is that because the earth is rotating you're not looking at Mars from a fixed point, I guess that must have some effect in what we observe.
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But one thing to note is that because the earth is rotating you're not looking at Mars from a fixed point, I guess that must have some effect in what we observe.
I think the effect would be immeasurably small (or maybe just on the edge of measurably small). Imagine drawing a line from the observers point on the surface of earth to the center of Mars at 8am, and then draw that line again from the observers point at 8pm. Those two lines will be different, certainly, but the angle distance between them will be miniscule. Less than a percent of a degree I reckon. I don't think our point of view of Mars would change drastically over the course of the day (until of course it's hidden entirely - that's a pretty big change)
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But one thing to note is that because the earth is rotating you're not looking at Mars from a fixed point, I guess that must have some effect in what we observe.
I think the effect would be immeasurably small (or maybe just on the edge of measurably small). Imagine drawing a line from the observers point on the surface of earth to the center of Mars at 8am, and then draw that line again from the observers point at 8pm. Those two lines will be different, certainly, but the angle distance between them will be miniscule. Less than a percent of a degree I reckon. I don't think our point of view of Mars would change drastically over the course of the day (until of course it's hidden entirely - that's a pretty big change)
Yes, thinking about it you are correct.
As we discussed in the eclipse thread, this is all a bit complicated. The rotation is a bit quicker than I'd expect but maybe there's something we're not taking in to account.
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The rotation is a bit quicker than I'd expect but maybe there's something we're not taking in to account.
This is what it is not being taken into account:
https://zetatalk.com/index/sign1083.jpg
https://zetatalk.com/newsletr/issue737.jpg
The 3:18 image captured the Winged Disc, the prior and later images did not have this rare capture. Per Skymap, only the planet Mercury should be in the four o'clock position on that day, to the right of the Sun.
Garuda, video and image:
https://twitter.com/Mixmasterxl/status/1770541769635033444
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJngMN3XgAAfQFr?format=jpg&name=medium
(https://thebigtheone.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/ScreenHunter_01-Apr.-08-19.33-768x441.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7PsR--1PMQ
In the video there are at least 60 degrees of rotation, the figure might be even higher than that. Even if the angle of rotation would be, let's say, 48 degrees, the phenomenon could not be accounted for (official data: The Martian rotation is increasing by 4 milliarcseconds per year squared. That means the Martian day is shortening by a fraction of a millisecond per year).
The supernova remnant of the Sagittarius A event is the Crab nebula.
The possibility that high-intensity cosmic ray electron fronts could
travel out through the Galaxy from a source at the Galaxy’s center is a new
idea that was inspired by the zodiac’s galactic explosion message.
Consequently, astronomers had not previously seriously considered the
notion that the cosmic ray electrons trapped in these remnants might have
come from interstellar space. They presumed that the cosmic rays are
spread relatively uniformly throughout the Galaxy and have an intensity
about as low as levels currently observed in the vicinity of the solar system.
Of course, such intensities would be far too low to produce the large
quantities of synchrotron radio wave emission seen to come from these
remnants. As an alternative, astronomers speculated that the cosmic rays
producing this emission might have come from the original supernova
explosion. However, this theory failed to account for the radio wave output
from some of the more luminous remnants, such as Cassiopeia A and the
Crab Nebula.
In the case of the Crab Nebula, astronomers have
suggested that the electrons are being supplied by the Crab pulsar, a
pulsating neutron star located near the nebula’s center, or at least along our
line of sight to its center.
However, the cosmic rays producing the radiation seen to come directly
from the pulsar may not necessarily be the only ones energizing the Crab
Nebula. This much may be gathered by comparing the pulsar’s radiation
spectrum to that of the nebula (see figure 10.7). Whereas both spectra have
the same slope in the X-ray frequency region, their radiation intensities
(flux densities) both decreasing with increasing frequency in a similar
fashion, the slopes of the two spectra differ substantially in the radio and
optical spectral regions. Most of the Crab Nebula’s X-ray emission comes
from a localized region lying within half a light-year of the pulsar; hence,
much of it may be powered by the pulsar’s cosmic ray wind.
Interestingly, the radio map of Cassiopeia A presented in figure 10.8 shows the
remnant to be most luminous on its westward side (right side), which faces
the Galactic center and would be receiving the full brunt of the superwave
onslaught. Furthermore, the remnant is seen to be least luminous on its
eastern side (left side), which is in the lee of this cosmic ray wind. A
similarly skewed distribution in brightness is apparent in X-ray images of
Cas A, such as the one shown in figure 10.9.
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Absolute crazy person post. Just complete random pictures and videos with no explanation for how they relate to mars rotation.
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If I had to guess, I'd say it looks just slightly past 45deg. I could be underestimating and it could be closer to 60
The rotation is a bit quicker than I'd expect but maybe there's something we're not taking in to account.
The angle featured in the video on the rotation of Mars is at least 60 degrees, where even 46 degrees could not be explained at all.
What is the connection between Mars and planet Vulcan? Mars (Marduk) had fought with Pairika (Mus Parik) before, according to the astronomical observations made long ago.
The fact that now we can see Garuda (Vulcan/Pairika) in broad daylight in the sky means that there is something affecting the entire planetary system, and that something is referring to the first effects of the galactic wave (cosmic rays) which is beginning to manifest itself (just like in the past, that is why I did include those references to the Crab nebula).
Nothing else can explain the acceleration of the rotation of Mars.
ASTRONOMICAL OBSERVATIONS OF PLANET GARUDA
Le Verrier, 1859:
https://armaghplanet.com/vulcan-the-solar-systems-ghost-planet.html
Lescarbault, 1959
Russell, 1860
(1876). An Intra-Mercurial Planet. Nature, 14(362):505
Covington, 1860
Lummis, 1862
Coumbary, 1865
Swift and Watson, 1878:
https://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?1953ASPL....6..291E&defaultprint=YES&filetype=.pdf
In fact, Swift and Watson (two oustanding American observational astronomers) had declared that they had seen TWO intra-mercurial planets (that's Garuda and its main satellite).
Then, after 1882, there were no more astronomical observations.
In a paper published just three days ago, Michael Lund of CalTech proposes that Garuda (Vulcan) had changed its orbit following the interaction with the great comet of 1882 and also comet Wells (1882):
https://arxiv.org/pdf/2403.20281.pdf
"Simply put, Vulcan is no longer on the orbit that it was as of the middle of the 19th century, but is on an inclined orbit that would have placed it close to the sun, but outside of the narrow band alignedwith the sun’s equator that Campbell (1909) focused on."
"The first possibility, and the more straight forward one, is that Vulcan underwent a close gravitational interaction that significantly changed its orbit somewhere between
roughly 1880 and 1900."
"This provides the alternative possibility that through the von Zeipel-Lidov-Kozai mechanism, Mercury was able to significantly excite the orbital inclination of Vulcan, resulting in Vulcan rarely being in line with the sun’s equator and outside the region that intramercurial planet searches had deliberately targeted."
He also notes that Einstein did not explain "the observations that had been made of Vulcan".
In fact, Le Verrier's original calculations stand correct, since the equations provided by GTR cannot be used to analyze dynamical systems:
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2194405#msg2194405
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg769750#msg769750
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2194825#msg2194825
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2196454#msg2196454
Then, starting about 2003, Garuda became active again and numerous photographs and videos were published depicting the FireBird next to the Sun.
Ancient astronomical text: Muspar (a fiery comet that loiters around the sun).
Definitely the acceleration of the rotation of Mars is related to the direct astronomical observations of planet Vulcan.
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The angle featured in the video on the rotation of Mars is at least 60 degrees, where even 46 degrees could not be explained at all.
Possibly, you'd have to show your work to demonstrate that. It's by no means obvious. Do you have any calculations? How do you know it's at least 60 degrees?
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Okay, I've done a more thorough visual analysis now.
Here's what a sphere rotated 45 degrees really looks like.
(https://i.imgur.com/vnZ7gqt.jpeg)
The two grey diamonds - one of them is looking straight at the camera, the other is where that diamond would end up after a 45-degree rotation of the sphere (I did this myself in blender, it's freely available and you can do it too).
Now, let's draw some pink dots where those grey diamonds are and overlay them on our Mars, so we can get a vantage on where the center of the sphere of mars is at the start of the clip, and try to compare it to where that point should be on mars at the end of the clip, IF mars had rotated 45 degrees.
(https://i.imgur.com/Yzq2Tbo.jpeg)
So the first image gives us a landmark for the center of mars - just over that little upward hill of darkness. So if mars had rotated more than 45 degrees, the spot just over that hill of dark should be further to the right of the pink dot, since the pink dot is exactly a 45 degree rotation of that point. In fact it looks like that spot is actually slightly to the left of the pink dot, indicating a less-than-45 degree rotation of the sphere of mars.
So, I do not believe your account of this mars video. I think you eyeballed it and jumped the gun drastically on your interpretations. Your first eyeballing had it at a 90-degree rotation over 3 hours. When you found out that 90 degrees wasn't going to be believed, you latched onto the biggest number i said - 60 - not because you actually figured out it was turning 60 degrees, but because it was more believable than 90 and would work for your desired narrative.
It's not spinning 90. It's not spinning 60. It's only ALMOST spinning 45 degrees over three hours.
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Your tricks don't work with me.
Here is the video:
https://x.com/astroferg/status/1880672505326960964?t=8zcwcKVpYxfrRVyo7XU8yA&s=19
Look how much further that dark feature on the clouds of Mars is rotating BEYOND the spot on the image you have posted. You are missing at least 10-15 degrees right there.
In fact, your previous analysis will create more FE believers.
There are at least 60 degrees right there, perhaps even more, maybe 70 degrees or so.
I win.
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Those are just words thrown around. Only a flat earther thinks they win with such low effort. You're demonstrating what a lot of intelligent people notice: that flat eathers are often too lazy to put in real work to demonstrate their ideas.
Demonstrate that it's more than 45 degrees. Don't just declare it's the case, being convincing takes more work than that
I'm also not tricking you, you can do the same analysis I did. Blender is a freely available software. There's no trick. I would love for you to verify my work.
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You are done here.
Here are the images that you have posted just a while ago:
https://i.imgur.com/Yzq2Tbo.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/Yzq2Tbo.jpeg
The next dark feature (right next to the dark element pinpointed with the pink dot) located to the right of the dark element (as we view the image) DISAPPEARS COMPLETELY IN THE VIDEO:
https://x.com/astroferg/status/1880672505326960964?t=8zcwcKVpYxfrRVyo7XU8yA&s=19
While it still can be seen in your image:
https://i.imgur.com/Yzq2Tbo.jpeg
Please explain to your readers why there is at a least a 60 degree rotation of Mars in three hours of time.
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I really don't know what dark feature you're talking about. No dark feature I have been focusing on disappears. Can you take a screenshot and circle it? Words aren't enough - there are many dark and light spots in the image.
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I think sandokhan may be making the mistake of interpreting the movement of surface features in a linear manner, as on a disc, rather than on a rotating 3-dimensional orb, and assessing the angles accordingly?
The apparent distance travelled is, of course, proportional to the Sin of the angle rotated. For instance, starting from the centre of the apparent disc, the first 30 degrees of rotation will move the point by Sin 30 = 0.5, or halfway to the edge. In the case of 45 degrees the distance travelled will be Sin 45, or 0.7; almost 3/4 the distance centre-to-edge.
The concept that winged angels and cosmic rays are accelerating planetary rotation speeds (which go unnoticed by mainstream science and millions of amateur astronomers), I would assess as somewhere between pseudo-science, alchemy and equine-poop.
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I think sandokhan may be making the mistake of interpreting the movement of surface features in a linear manner, as on a disc, rather than on a rotating 3-dimensional orb, and assessing the angles accordingly?
I had the same thought, that's why I compared it to a 3d rotation in blender explicitly.
You're absolutely right though, rotation will, in a video, happen across many more pixels per degree when it starts from the center than what it starts near the right edge or left edge. I knew it had something to do with sine or cosine, I appreciate the clarity!
I don't expect to get a complete fulfilling analysis from sado, because for the most part these people aren't willing to put any actual effort into their own beliefs. It's ironic that the people who put the most effort into flat earth models are not flat eathers.
For example, I calculated the height of the celestial dome this week using generally accepted facts from celestial navigation. I don't see flat eathers doing that sort of thing very often.
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Recent studies indicate that Mars is indeed rotating at an increased pace. NASA's InSight mission has revealed that Mars' rotation is accelerating by approximately 4 milliarcseconds per year², leading to a slight reduction in the length of a Martian day. Researchers are still exploring the root cause, but it may be linked to the redistribution of Mars' mass, possibly due to ice accumulation on the polar caps or post-glacial rebound.
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No one cares about miliarcseconds (per year).
Here we are noticing at least a full 60 degrees rotation.
Not even a 46 degree observation could be explained by mainstream science.
Here are more details offered by the author of the video in glp:
https://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message5920291/pg1
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No one cares about miliarcseconds (per year).
Here we are noticing at least a full 60 degrees rotation.
Not even a 46 degree observation could be explained by mainstream science.
Incorrect. Mainstream science atributes a Martian day to be 24h 37m, so a 3-hour timeslot should equate to 44 about degrees of movement; well within a range of error of the (claimed) 3 hours of grainy, low resolution footage.
You obviously readhow the author stacked images, frame by frame into a 3-hour Youtube clip, but what evidence is there that this represents 3 hours of observation?