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Other Discussion Boards => Arts & Entertainment => Topic started by: Ghost of V on July 09, 2014, 05:17:09 PM

Title: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on July 09, 2014, 05:17:09 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/6NPgtnP.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/ONFDvOj.png)


http://youtu.be/ZFZaqsaJ4eE

I noticed there wasn't a Doctor Who thread, and there obviously should be. I took it upon myself to create the thread, and here it is.

Now, I know all you simpletons are probably like: "What is Doctor Who?". Well, I'm here with answers. Doctor Who is a sci-fi television show that has been running since 1963 with on and off breaks, making it the longest running Sci-Fi show on the planet. It follows the adventures of a renegade Timelord named "The Doctor" who is pretty much the best mary sue character on television. He travels around in a Type 40 TARDIS, which stands for Time and Relative Dimension in Space and is pretty much a time machine. Instead of dying he regenerates, which means different actors can play the same character. Right now, the Doctor is on his 12th incarnation who is being played by Peter Capaldi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Capaldi). The new series is on its 8th season and Moffat is still pissing off fans regularly.

This thread is basically for anything Doctor Who related. This thread will contain spoilers.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: beardo on July 09, 2014, 05:23:11 PM
Everyone knows what Doctor Who is. But not everyone gives a fuck.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on July 09, 2014, 05:33:27 PM
Everyone knows what Doctor Who is. But not everyone gives a fuck.


I was being facetious, asshat.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Lord Dave on July 09, 2014, 07:53:39 PM
Wait until August 24th!  >o<
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: markjo on July 09, 2014, 07:55:02 PM
But not everyone gives a fuck.
And it's likely that they won't get one with that kind of attitude.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on July 09, 2014, 07:56:10 PM
Wait until August 24th!  >o<

No! I need to be prepared for any retarded Moffat twists.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: rooster on July 09, 2014, 08:01:26 PM
I finally watched all of the new Doctor Who seasons.

I liked Matt Smith the best and David Tenant the least.Tenant was alright, but too soft for me. I like the Doctor with a bit of bite in him.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on July 09, 2014, 08:04:23 PM
I finally watched all of the new Doctor Who seasons.

I liked Matt Smith the best and David Tenant the least.Tenant was alright, but too soft for me. I like the Doctor with a bit of bite in him.

Then you should like Eccleston's Doctor. He's got a lot of bite... My favorite of all of them is the 8th Doctor, always has been. I was really happy when Night of the Doctor came out, but was a bit disappointed that it was only 6 minutes long.

Within the new series, I'm conflicted. I think I like Tennant and Smith equally, sometimes swaying more toward Smith for various reasons. Tennant's Doctor is way too human.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: The Terror on July 09, 2014, 08:49:52 PM
Matt Smith's run was ruined by the stupid story arcs that went on and on and on and made no sense whatsoever.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on July 09, 2014, 08:57:32 PM
Matt Smith's run was ruined by the stupid story arcs that went on and on and on and made no sense whatsoever.

I agree for the most part. Although, I think Matt Smith's first season is pretty decent because it makes sense.  After that it just goes downhill quickly.

I dislike River Song because 1) she's annoying and 2) her relationship with the Doctor is filled with plotholes. The Impossible Astronaut is all it took for me to immediately start disliking the way Moffat handled Doctor Who, and then the conclusion to that season clenched the deal (lol the Doctor didn't die he was a robot) but I feel like he's doing a bit better since the 50th Anniversary. I also feel like Peter Capaldi was a great choice for the next Doctor, and that was also Moffat's decision; He's doing some things right, but for the most part he's just fucking everything up because he simply cannot write an engaging storyarc that makes sense. He's much better off doing one-off episodes.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: rooster on July 10, 2014, 01:08:13 AM
I finally watched all of the new Doctor Who seasons.

I liked Matt Smith the best and David Tenant the least.Tenant was alright, but too soft for me. I like the Doctor with a bit of bite in him.

Then you should like Eccleston's Doctor. He's got a lot of bite... My favorite of all of them is the 8th Doctor, always has been. I was really happy when Night of the Doctor came out, but was a bit disappointed that it was only 6 minutes long.

Within the new series, I'm conflicted. I think I like Tennant and Smith equally, sometimes swaying more toward Smith for various reasons. Tennant's Doctor is way too human.
Eccleston ranks above Tenant for me but below Smith. I stopped watching for months once Eccleston left, I just couldn't get into Tenant's doctor.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Lord Dave on July 10, 2014, 02:14:31 AM
Matt Smith's run was ruined by the stupid story arcs that went on and on and on and made no sense whatsoever.

What didn't make sense?
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on July 10, 2014, 02:25:32 AM
Matt Smith's run was ruined by the stupid story arcs that went on and on and on and made no sense whatsoever.

What didn't make sense?


The Angels Take Manhattan.

The Statue of Liberty is a fucking weeping angel. How did this happen? Was no one looking at it when it was moving? Really? Not even a bird? C'mon now Moffat.

Also, The Eleventh Hour. We learn that the cracks in the universe erase things from existence in a later episode. How the hell does Prisoner Zero then escape from one of these cracks??

There's more but I'm drinking.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Lord Dave on July 10, 2014, 02:38:07 AM
Matt Smith's run was ruined by the stupid story arcs that went on and on and on and made no sense whatsoever.

What didn't make sense?


The Angels Take Manhattan.

The Statue of Liberty is a fucking weeping angel. How did this happen? Was no one looking at it when it was moving? Really? Not even a bird? C'mon now Moffat.
No arguments there. 

Quote
Also, The Eleventh Hour. We learn that the cracks in the universe erase things from existence in a later episode. How the hell does Prisoner Zero then escape from one of these cracks??
It only erases you if it eats you.  The crack in Amelia's wall was long since died down and had finished erasing stuff.
It's also a wormhole, sort of.  Two parts of space-time that touch.  So it's technically a wormhole and can be traveled through.  But not when it's hot because then it emits time energy (as seen on the Byzanthian).

The energy itself was from the exploding Tardis.  Not sure how it wiped out every sun in the universe but it did.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Rushy on July 10, 2014, 03:39:02 AM
Trying to make sense of the horrific clusterfuck that is Doctor Who lore will only end in frustration.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: rooster on July 10, 2014, 04:10:46 AM
Trying to make sense of the horrific clusterfuck that is Doctor Who lore will only end in frustration.
Srsly, it's way more enjoyable when you just accept the nonsensical whimsy and not try to piece together rational plots.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Lord Dave on July 10, 2014, 10:34:07 AM
Trying to make sense of the horrific clusterfuck that is Doctor Who lore will only end in frustration.
It gets me off.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: markjo on July 10, 2014, 12:31:27 PM
Trying to make sense of the horrific clusterfuck that is Doctor Who lore will only end in frustration.
Srsly, it's way more enjoyable when you just accept the nonsensical whimsy and not try to piece together rational plots.
Really, just how much sense is a show about a 900 year old guy who travels in time and space in a police call box supposed to make?
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on July 10, 2014, 12:50:47 PM
I liked Matt Smith but thought he was landed with some fairly terrible stories (Dinosaurs on a Spaceship, Let's Kill Hitler, The Crimson Horror, Time of the Doctor). We don't need a story arc which absorbs every single story in the Who universe. DW is at its best when it's doing standalone stories then moving on.

If I had but one plea for Moffat it's this: Please stop trying to be 'wacky.' Go back to the humour of new Season 1 (The Empty Child/ Doctor Dances' is a great example. Dark, creepy story with engaging characters but with enough levity to keep things light.

I'm really looking forward to Capaldi's run, but I really hope the 'hunt for Gallifrey' doesn't become overbearing, we certainly don't need another 'Impossible Girl' arc.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on July 14, 2014, 08:30:57 AM
I think it would be great if they just skipped the hunt for Gallirey and jumped right into it. Make Gallirey the new hub of the show. I would like to see the Doctor interacting with his own species for once, not counting River Song because she sucks. It would also be a great excuse to bring back characters from the original series. Maybe bridging the generation gap among fans.

I think the series has a lot of potential now, it's just a matter of where the writers are going to take it. Judging by Moffat's track record it will probably be a train wreck.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on July 14, 2014, 08:34:33 AM
Also, there is a new season 8 trailer. Featuring real footage this time.

http://youtu.be/q6Yh0oBoKso
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Lord Dave on July 14, 2014, 12:44:11 PM
I think it would be great if they just skipped the hunt for Gallirey and jumped right into it. Make Gallirey the new hub of the show. I would like to see the Doctor interacting with his own species for once, not counting River Song because she sucks. It would also be a great excuse to bring back characters from the original series. Maybe bridging the generation gap among fans.

I think the series has a lot of potential now, it's just a matter of where the writers are going to take it. Judging by Moffat's track record it will probably be a train wreck.
Gallifrey was never a big part of the series.  Even before the 2005 version The Doctor only had a few arcs involving other time lords (minus the master). 
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on July 14, 2014, 05:00:48 PM
I think it would be great if they just skipped the hunt for Gallirey and jumped right into it. Make Gallirey the new hub of the show. I would like to see the Doctor interacting with his own species for once, not counting River Song because she sucks. It would also be a great excuse to bring back characters from the original series. Maybe bridging the generation gap among fans.

I think the series has a lot of potential now, it's just a matter of where the writers are going to take it. Judging by Moffat's track record it will probably be a train wreck.
Gallifrey was never a big part of the series.  Even before the 2005 version The Doctor only had a few arcs involving other time lords (minus the master).

You're right, but it would still be neat to see the Doctor among his people in at least a few episodes. The Doctor used to interact with Timelords a lot, especially during the Tom Baker-era when Romana (a timelord) was traveling with him. Not to mention the first Doctor's 'granddaughter', and The Trial of a Time Lord serial. I'm sure there's more, but that's as much as I've seen featuring other Timelords or Gallifrey in the older series (not counting the Master).
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on July 14, 2014, 05:10:57 PM
I think it would be great if they just skipped the hunt for Gallirey and jumped right into it. Make Gallirey the new hub of the show. I would like to see the Doctor interacting with his own species for once, not counting River Song because she sucks. It would also be a great excuse to bring back characters from the original series. Maybe bridging the generation gap among fans.

I think the series has a lot of potential now, it's just a matter of where the writers are going to take it. Judging by Moffat's track record it will probably be a train wreck.
Gallifrey was never a big part of the series.  Even before the 2005 version The Doctor only had a few arcs involving other time lords (minus the master).

Hmm, As I recall, he was made to regenerate from 2 to 3 by the timelords, sentenced to exile on Earth (totes not 4 budget reesons!!) ordered to destroy or halt the early Daleks by the timelords, he was thrown together with himself in the 3 and 5 doctors by the timelords, one of 4th's arcs involved the assassination attempt of the timelord president, the doctor BECOMES the timelord president, he's put on trial by the time lords, he had a timelord travel with him for a bit, there were various pieces of old timelord tech which were important macguffins (The 'x' of Rassilon, usually)

I don't wan to see him spending too much time on Gallifrey - one or two stories about political intrigue, scandal and power would be fun, but I'd rather move away from the 'arc' format of previous seasons.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on July 14, 2014, 05:28:51 PM
I don't wan to see him spending too much time on Gallifrey - one or two stories about political intrigue, scandal and power would be fun, but I'd rather move away from the 'arc' format of previous seasons.

I like overarching storylines that cover an entire season, but Moffat doesn't know how write them well.

Russel T. Davies did a good job at it. He kept the series episodic, almost "monster of the week", but dropped subtle hints throughout that there was an overarching thing going on, which usually came to light during the final two episodes.

Moffat attempts to do the same thing, but takes his writing too seriously and makes many of the one-off episodes seem unimportant in the shadow of the overarching story. I think that Matt Smith's 2nd season is the biggest culprit here: The Impossible Astronaut arc, combined with the Silence, and the "Good man Demon's Run" BS made the season too cluttered and turned seemingly-serious incidents into laughable sidequests. I can't even pick a decent episode out of the 13 that created Series 6... maybe The Doctor's Wife or Closing Time?
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: rooster on July 14, 2014, 05:55:51 PM
I'm just glad they got an older guy. The constant sexual tension between the Doctor and his companion was getting pretty annoying.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on July 14, 2014, 06:05:08 PM
I'm just glad they got an older guy. The constant sexual tension between the Doctor and his companion was getting pretty annoying.

I agree. I felt like the sexual tension between the Doctor and the Doctor's companions was inappropriate. The Doctor is an old alien. Amy, Martha, and Rose are like infants compared to the Doctor. It makes no sense that he would be even remotely attracted to any of them. I'm looking mostly at Rose.

When they tried to introduce a real sexual companion for the Doctor it just ended up feeling cheap and stupid, and it actually hurt the Doctor's character imo. Why does the Doctor care so much about River Song? Is it because she's part timelord? If so, why was this never touched on in the show? It seems like The Doctor is just supposed to be in love with River Song to add complexity to the plot, nothing more.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: rooster on July 14, 2014, 06:12:14 PM
When they tried to introduce a real sexual companion for the Doctor it just ended up feeling cheap and stupid, and it actually hurt the Doctor's character imo. Why does the Doctor care so much about River Song? Is it because she's part timelord? If so, why was this never touched on in the show? It seems like The Doctor is just supposed to be in love with River Song to add complexity to the plot, nothing more.
I mean, they are almost the same person. Always on the run and cheeky. Plus, maybe the added knowledge of knowing they have a future together kind of forced his feelings for her.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: markjo on July 14, 2014, 07:11:48 PM
When they tried to introduce a real sexual companion for the Doctor it just ended up feeling cheap and stupid, and it actually hurt the Doctor's character imo. Why does the Doctor care so much about River Song? Is it because she's part timelord? If so, why was this never touched on in the show? It seems like The Doctor is just supposed to be in love with River Song to add complexity to the plot, nothing more.
Actually, River Song was more in love with The Doctor than the other way around.  Something about how they keep meeting in different parts of their respective timelines so that their relationship more or less ran in opposite directions. 
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 14, 2014, 07:31:41 PM
In general I'm in the "Doctor Who needs to end" camp. Anyway... Eccleston's Doctor was a three dimensional character who used his brain to solve problems. His actions actually had consequences throughout the series, which had a continuity that was complex yet still made sense. Tennant's Doctor was gradually reduced to nothing more than a costume and a few catchphrases, and his stories basically rely on their own extreme convolutedness in the context of the greater continuity (which is practically non-existent at this point) to justify the use of deus ex machina in the form of either the Doctor's powers or features of the Tardis, neither of which are ever brought up again. What little I have seen of Smith's series reminds me of Tennant but with worse stories, worse characters, worse special effects and more of that annoying River Song idiot.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on July 14, 2014, 07:35:03 PM
When they tried to introduce a real sexual companion for the Doctor it just ended up feeling cheap and stupid, and it actually hurt the Doctor's character imo. Why does the Doctor care so much about River Song? Is it because she's part timelord? If so, why was this never touched on in the show? It seems like The Doctor is just supposed to be in love with River Song to add complexity to the plot, nothing more.
Actually, River Song was more in love with The Doctor than the other way around.  Something about how they keep meeting in different parts of their respective timelines so that their relationship more or less ran in opposite directions.

Yes, but the Doctor constantly visited River Song in prison and went on many off-screen adventures with her. Meaning the Doctor cares for and loves River Song. The reasons why their relationship is so strong were never really touched upon. If the Doctor didn't share similar feelings, why did he constantly go on private adventures with her and save her life numerous times? I feel like we are missing crucial development points in their relationship. Maybe this was done intentionally?

In general I'm in the "Doctor Who needs to end" camp. Anyway... Eccleston's Doctor was a three dimensional character who used his brain to solve problems. His actions actually had consequences throughout the series, which had a continuity that was complex yet still made sense. Tennant's Doctor was gradually reduced to nothing more than a costume and a few catchphrases, and his stories basically rely on their own extreme convolutedness in the context of the greater continuity (which is practically non-existent at this point) to justify the use of deus ex machina in the form of either the Doctor's powers or features of the Tardis, neither of which are ever brought up again. What little I have seen of Smith's series reminds me of Tennant but with worse stories, worse characters, worse special effects and more of that annoying River Song idiot.

Sounds like you have a dissenting opinion just to sound cool, and its obvious you haven't really watched the show in depth. Your point about "Tardis deus ex machina" happened numerous times in Eccleston's run. Did you forget about the Bad Wolf? Bad Wolf was text book deus ex.

Also, Tennant made more mistakes and had more negative consequences for his actions than Eccleston. For example, the 10th Doctor deposed Harriet Jones which directly caused the rise of Harold Saxon (The Master), who later went on to enslave Earth. That's a pretty negative consequence to me.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: markjo on July 14, 2014, 07:41:25 PM
When they tried to introduce a real sexual companion for the Doctor it just ended up feeling cheap and stupid, and it actually hurt the Doctor's character imo. Why does the Doctor care so much about River Song? Is it because she's part timelord? If so, why was this never touched on in the show? It seems like The Doctor is just supposed to be in love with River Song to add complexity to the plot, nothing more.
Actually, River Song was more in love with The Doctor than the other way around.  Something about how they keep meeting in different parts of their respective timelines so that their relationship more or less ran in opposite directions.

Yes, but the Doctor constantly visited River Song in prison and went on many off-screen adventures with her. Meaning the Doctor cares for and loves River Song. The reasons why their relationship is so strong were never really touched upon. If the Doctor didn't share similar feelings, why did he constantly go on private adventures with her and save her life numerous times? I feel like we are missing crucial development points in their relationship. Maybe this was done intentionally?
??? I only remember a very few times that The Doctor visited River in prison.  It seems that River pretty much just showed up where The Doctor happened to be. 

Also remember that The Doctor disappeared for a few hundred years that he doesn't talk about much.  My guess is that's when they had much of their romance.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on July 14, 2014, 07:52:05 PM
??? I only remember a very few times that The Doctor visited River in prison.  It seems that River pretty much just showed up where The Doctor happened to be. 

Also remember that The Doctor disappeared for a few hundred years that he doesn't talk about much.  My guess is that's when they had much of their romance.

It is implied within the show that The Doctor visits River often off-screen.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Lord Dave on July 14, 2014, 08:39:05 PM
In general I'm in the "Doctor Who needs to end" camp. Anyway... Eccleston's Doctor was a three dimensional character who used his brain to solve problems. His actions actually had consequences throughout the series, which had a continuity that was complex yet still made sense. Tennant's Doctor was gradually reduced to nothing more than a costume and a few catchphrases, and his stories basically rely on their own extreme convolutedness in the context of the greater continuity (which is practically non-existent at this point) to justify the use of deus ex machina in the form of either the Doctor's powers or features of the Tardis, neither of which are ever brought up again. What little I have seen of Smith's series reminds me of Tennant but with worse stories, worse characters, worse special effects and more of that annoying River Song idiot.
The entire continuity was: Bad Wolf.
Seriously, that was the entire season in a nutshell.  The words Bad Wolf popping up everywhere.

It was marred with people killing themselves to stop the threat or the Doctor directly killing them.
The First Episode: Doctor Kills the giant plastic maker thingy.
The second episode: Tree lady kills herself to flip a switch.
The Third Episode: Maid kills herself to seal a rift.
The Fourth and Fifth episodes: A lot of important British people die and the Doctor has a missile fired at Downing Street.  Think that didn't kill a few innocent people?  Not only that but someone ELSE actually launched the missile, not The Doctor.
The sixth episode: The dalek kills himself. (thanks to Rose BTW)
The seventh: Human saves the day again but this time doesn't die.
8: Rose's dad kills himself.
9-10: Everyone lives.  (because mommy gives her boy a hug)
11: Deus Ex "villain is defeated"
12-13: The Doctor Lies and get's a lot of people killed (intentionally).  Rose does a Deus Ex.

Have you noticed a running theme? A human saves the day in most cases.  Not the Doctor, some random character.  And it's usually fatal.
In all 10 "stories"(I count two parters as one story for this count) humans(and one tree lady) save the day 8 times.  The Tardis in 1.  The Doctor in 1.

This is probably why you like it more.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on July 15, 2014, 04:36:26 AM
I just had the unfortunate experience of watching The Doctor's Daughter for the 5+ time. The scene where Jenny backflips through the laser grid room is so absurd. Also, how did she survive getting shot in the chest? She clearly died and obviously didn't regenerate. Is she immortal?
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: markjo on July 15, 2014, 03:02:53 PM
I just had the unfortunate experience of watching The Doctor's Daughter for the 5+ time. The scene where Jenny backflips through the laser grid room is so absurd.
Well, duh.  The show is supposed to be absurd.

Also, how did she survive getting shot in the chest? She clearly died and obviously didn't regenerate. Is she immortal?
Kevlar?
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: rooster on July 15, 2014, 03:26:02 PM
I thought it did seem like she used her regenerative abilities to heal herself rather than a full regenaration.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on July 15, 2014, 05:29:54 PM
After researching it, apparently Jenny was revived by the source. The energy that escapes her lips before she revives looks the same as the gasses in the source. Apparently the source combined with Jenny's natural regenerative powers saved her. Why she didn't just regenerate to begin with is beyond me, though.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on July 15, 2014, 07:04:00 PM
I don't wan to see him spending too much time on Gallifrey - one or two stories about political intrigue, scandal and power would be fun, but I'd rather move away from the 'arc' format of previous seasons.

I like overarching storylines that cover an entire season, but Moffat doesn't know how write them well.

Russel T. Davies did a good job at it. He kept the series episodic, almost "monster of the week", but dropped subtle hints throughout that there was an overarching thing going on, which usually came to light during the final two episodes.

Moffat attempts to do the same thing, but takes his writing too seriously and makes many of the one-off episodes seem unimportant in the shadow of the overarching story. I think that Matt Smith's 2nd season is the biggest culprit here: The Impossible Astronaut arc, combined with the Silence, and the "Good man Demon's Run" BS made the season too cluttered and turned seemingly-serious incidents into laughable sidequests. I can't even pick a decent episode out of the 13 that created Series 6... maybe The Doctor's Wife or Closing Time?

The first two episodes were quite good if you ignore the 'Doctor is dead' bit. Creepy enemies with a genuinely inventive solution. The Doctor's Wife is amongst my favourite NuWho episodes.

The Rebel Flesh and The Almost People are quite good (once you get past the absurdity of an 'acid mine' in a Scottish castle.) There's a good story about cloning, acceptance, and prejudice marred slightly by them becoming far too monstrous in the second episode. I'd have been much happier if the Doctor's words to the miner rang a bit more true. "Are you a violent man? No? Then why assume your 'ganger will be?"

The Girl Who Waited is a good one, although it's hard to sympaphise too much with Amy's 30-year wait when Rory waited two millenia for her.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on July 15, 2014, 07:25:19 PM
Thinking back on it: Series 6 does have some good episodes. The ganger episode was quite good. The real offenders this series are The Impossible Astronaut, Let's Kill Hitler, The Wedding of River Song. The fact that the main arc episodes in this series are terrible puts a damper on the entirety of series 6 for me because I find the main arc episodes to be the most interesting/exciting of a series.

Series 6 also has some really boring throwaway episodes: Night Terrors & The Curse of the Black Spot (ugh) instantly come to mind.

One thing I appreciate about Series 6 is that Moffat set up a few different explanations for how the Doctor could have survived death in The Impossible Astronaut. I'm guessing he wanted viewers to assume that the Doctor who died in the first episode was actually a ganger, which I think would have been more interesting than him being a robot anyways... I suppose Moffat didn't choose that route because Amy was already a ganger the whole time, so it would seem silly if the Doctor was too. However, I still think the whole "he's dead" thing is silly Moffat writing. It seems like he relies on similar concepts in all his work. For example, the end of Sherlock Season 2 is very similar in style to the beginning of Doctor Who series 6. "He's dead but obviously survived... how did he do it?". It's just lazy writing imo. At least he actually gave us a legit explanation in Doctor Who, unlike Sherlock.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on July 15, 2014, 07:59:56 PM
Quote
However, I still think the whole "he's dead" thing is silly Moffat writing.

Exactly. Annie Wilkes in Misery explains what's wrong with Moffat's writing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVzX22lrWxA

Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 15, 2014, 08:16:15 PM
I've never heard anyone say a kind word about this Moffat fellow.  Why is he in charge of the show?
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on July 15, 2014, 08:23:54 PM
I've never heard anyone say a kind word about this Moffat fellow.  Why is he in charge of the show?

Because his over-sexualized vision of Doctor Who has made it more popular with teenage girls than the series has ever been. It is making BBC more money than ever. Hopefully, the Doctor as a love interest thing will fade with the 12th.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on July 15, 2014, 08:28:04 PM
I've never heard anyone say a kind word about this Moffat fellow.  Why is he in charge of the show?

His early episodes were great. The EmptyChild/ The Doctor Dances, Blink, The Girl in the Fireplace, Silence in the Library, Time Crash.

He can write individual episodes, just not whole series arcs.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on July 15, 2014, 08:31:18 PM
Time Crash is his best work. It is 6 minutes long.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on July 21, 2014, 10:01:10 PM
I have been rewatching Series 4 with Tennant. Midnight is easily the best episode this season, and the Sontaran two-parter is easily the worst.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Rushy on July 21, 2014, 11:40:34 PM
His early episodes were great. The EmptyChild/ The Doctor Dances, Blink, The Girl in the Fireplace, Silence in the Library, Time Crash.

He can write individual episodes, just not whole series arcs.

Doctor Who should always be individual episodes, anyway. The show isn't very conducive to story arcs.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Snupes on July 22, 2014, 01:39:04 AM
I've never heard anyone say a kind word about this Moffat fellow.  Why is he in charge of the show?
Because he's a good writer with shitty attributes.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Saddam Hussein on July 22, 2014, 02:26:49 AM
By the way, the earlier passage I posted was copypasta from Crudblud.  I've really only seen one or two episodes of the show.  I didn't think they were very good.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Rushy on July 22, 2014, 04:03:06 AM
By the way, the earlier passage I posted was copypasta from Crudblud.  I've really only seen one or two episodes of the show.  I didn't think they were very good.

Watching Doctor Who is like drinking cheap beer or black coffee. It's awful, but you have to force yourself to do it until you trick yourself into liking it.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: rooster on July 22, 2014, 03:51:48 PM
By the way, the earlier passage I posted was copypasta from Crudblud.  I've really only seen one or two episodes of the show.  I didn't think they were very good.

Watching Doctor Who is like drinking cheap beer or black coffee. It's awful, but you have to force yourself to do it until you trick yourself into liking it.
That's what I had to do for Tennant's doctor. I legitimately liked Smith though or maybe by that point the illusion was set. Hmmm.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on July 22, 2014, 04:45:35 PM
By the way, the earlier passage I posted was copypasta from Crudblud.  I've really only seen one or two episodes of the show.  I didn't think they were very good.

Watching Doctor Who is like drinking cheap beer or black coffee. It's awful, but you have to force yourself to do it until you trick yourself into liking it.

Doctor Who gets a lot better if you manage to condition yourself to ignore some major characters in the show and the general plot of each season. The expanded universe and headcanon also help.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: The Terror on July 22, 2014, 10:12:24 PM
http://www.sfx.co.uk/2014/07/21/exclusive-its-not-a-fairytale-steven-moffat-talks-doctor-who-series-8/

So, a bit more serious, probably a lot more domestic stuff with Clara's parents showing up every now and again shaking their heads and tutting disapprovingly.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on July 22, 2014, 10:15:34 PM
http://www.sfx.co.uk/2014/07/21/exclusive-its-not-a-fairytale-steven-moffat-talks-doctor-who-series-8/

So, a bit more serious, probably a lot more domestic stuff with Clara's parents showing up every now and again shaking their heads and tutting disapprovingly.

Just read that article.

Moffat is making it seem like this is a new idea; the whole "there are consequences for traveling with the Doctor" thing. That's hardly the case. Almost every season explores this theme, some being entirely focused on that exact thing (Eccleston/Tennat era had this in abundance).
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: The Terror on July 22, 2014, 10:22:31 PM
Yeah, I did wonder about that. Rose, Martha and Donna's families were featured pretty extensively.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on July 22, 2014, 10:40:41 PM
Yeah, I did wonder about that. Rose, Martha and Donna's families were featured pretty extensively.

Maybe Moffat means this is the first time that he will be exploring it extensively as the showrunner. From what I have read of the leaked scripts, it seems to be the case. Clara is not very impressed with the 12th Doctor in the first episode and this will probably be touched on more in later episodes as well.

My #1 fan theory right now is that the "leaked scripts" are a hoax to hide the real direction of the show. Which is: the 12th Doctor is actually the Master. Not that I have a problem with Capaldi, but I think it would be an awesome twist.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on August 05, 2014, 06:13:15 PM
10 days, 1 hour, and 16 minutes until the premier of Doctor Who series 8!

What is everyone expecting from the new Doctor?
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Lord Dave on August 05, 2014, 07:46:57 PM
10 days, 1 hour, and 16 minutes until the premier of Doctor Who series 8!

What is everyone expecting from the new Doctor?

He'll be boring and terrible for the first few episodes then we'll think he's damn good.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 05, 2014, 07:54:22 PM
dumb show
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: The Terror on August 05, 2014, 10:10:56 PM
I'd like to see the series go in a horror direction like a lot of the Tom Baker stories. Maybe have the Daleks and the Cybermen actually win for a change to try and restore their credibility.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Rushy on August 05, 2014, 10:53:00 PM
I don't watch the show until it premiers on Netflix. Cable is dumb.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on August 05, 2014, 11:01:22 PM
I don't watch the show until it premiers on Netflix. Cable is dumb.

I guess you're in boy scouts too, right?
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on August 09, 2014, 04:54:34 PM
New footage from series 8, no spoilers... just some clips.

http://youtu.be/7rvpElcXUi8

The whole "Am I a good man?" being a deep/serious question in the trailer is actually quite different with some context.  Brilliant delivery from Capaldi.

12th: "Am I a good man?
Clara: "... I don't know"
12th: "Well, that's just keen". *gets up and walks away*

Also

12th: "This is um..."
Clara: "I'm his carer"
12th: "Yeah, my carer. She cares so I don't have to."
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: rooster on August 09, 2014, 05:28:21 PM
I saw something on Twitter where he said he was not going to be a "user-friendly Doctor" or something like that.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on August 09, 2014, 05:30:45 PM
I saw something on Twitter where he said he was not going to be a "user-friendly Doctor" or something like that.

I read that too. I also read that there would be no flirting between the Doctor and his companions, which I firmly support.

I know I'm in the majority here, but I'm glad 12 is a darker figure than his predecessors.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: rooster on August 09, 2014, 08:54:30 PM
Yeah, I'm excited.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: EnigmaZV on August 11, 2014, 04:01:12 AM
I don't watch the show until it premiers on Netflix. Cable is dumb.

You might be able to watch it direcly from the PBS website, or I know you can get it directly from the BBC if you know how to change your DNS settings.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 11, 2014, 04:08:15 AM
Lol, PBS.  Doctor Who is on the same channel as Barney.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Rushy on August 11, 2014, 04:30:56 AM
Lol, PBS.  Doctor Who is on the same channel as Barney.

Barney is one of the Doctor's faces. He gives up trying to save the universe and settles down into a life of frightening small children.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Vongeo on August 12, 2014, 05:05:33 AM
Doctor who is House?
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on August 12, 2014, 05:11:23 AM
The Doctor could be House MD if he sealed his Time Lord essences inside his fob watch. He wouldn't even know he was The Doctor. Could totally be a canon theory. Although it would have to be a future incarnation of the Doctor that looks like House.

I have an even better theory that Willy Wonka is the Doctor, but that will have to wait until another time.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on August 24, 2014, 07:39:30 AM
So, Deep Breath is out there now. Who's seen it?
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: The Terror on August 24, 2014, 10:13:33 AM
It starts off really badly. The first 20-25 minutes are atrocious, bad special effects, weird character reactions, stupid Moffitt shit that doesn't make sense. After that though it steadily improves. Capaldi looks to be a great choice for the Doctor.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on August 24, 2014, 06:23:30 PM
It starts off really badly. The first 20-25 minutes are atrocious, bad special effects, weird character reactions, stupid Moffitt shit that doesn't make sense. After that though it steadily improves. Capaldi looks to be a great choice for the Doctor.

I thought the beginning was fine. It developed Clara in a way we have never seen before, and she really needed it because previously her character was stale as hell.

I really don't like the Paternoster Gang. I feel like their characters are forced. Vastra is the most annoying one to me, we get it... You're a lesbian that kills people, so edgy. Shut up already!

Peter Capaldi as the Doctor is just brilliant. I expected nothing less though. I loved his speech in the skin balloon, easily as good as 11s speech in The Eleventh Hour.  Although, as an introduction to the Doctor: Eleventh Hour is superior as an episode. Deep Breath was still amazing, and 12 really pushes forth a new paradigm shift for the show.


The ending was interesting. Missy, Gatekeeper of the Nethersphere, is obviously River Song. All that "Heaven" and "Promised Land" talk is the same verbiage that was used when referring to the super computer in the Library with 10, where River Song died and was uploaded. At least, this seems to be what Moffat wants the viewer to think since the references were made very obvious (Missy = Miss Evangelista?).
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: The Terror on August 24, 2014, 08:17:29 PM
I think the issue with Clara is that her reaction to the Doctor's regeneration is ridiculous considering she'd met three versions of the Doctor in the 50th anniversary including the oldie John Hurt version. And she did that that thing where she somehow went through his past to help out all of his previous incarnations. So really she should have coped pretty well with the regeneration. Although her character development was much better than previous episodes.

I'm worried that Missy might be short for Mistress, a female version of the Master.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on August 24, 2014, 08:30:27 PM
I think the issue with Clara is that her reaction to the Doctor's regeneration is ridiculous considering she'd met three versions of the Doctor in the 50th anniversary including the oldie John Hurt version. And she did that that thing where she somehow went through his past to help out all of his previous incarnations. So really she should have coped pretty well with the regeneration. Although her character development was much better than previous episodes.

I'm worried that Missy might be short for Mistress, a female version of the Master.

I thought about that too. Why is she so surprised? I think the reason is that while she did travel through his timestream and meet literally every incarnation of the Doctor except 12... Matt Smith was her Doctor. She flirted with him, had a connection with him, and thought he was charming. She is familiar with regeneration, but it is finally dawning on her that 12 is going to be the new Doctor from now on and she's going to be traveling with him. As opposed to her just meddling in his time stream. She was kind of detached from the previous incarnations because she didn't have to really spend time with them. She probably thought "this is never going to happen to my Doctor", and when it did she was devastated.

Missy could be many things at this point. I thought about the Master, but Moffat already said the Master would not be returning this season (he could be lying). Right now I think Missy is either River Song, dark twisted version of Clara that was maybe trapped in the timestream, the Master (which I doubt), or just a completely new character. We know that River Song's arc was supposedly finished, but anything could happen considering this is Doctor Who.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: The Terror on August 24, 2014, 09:02:51 PM
Maybe Moffat would want to resurrect River Song? But then why would she have a different body in the Library computer?
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on August 24, 2014, 09:12:38 PM
Missy could be a mix of River Song and Miss Evangelista, but that's really a stretch. Personally I think it would be awesome if River Song came back with a grudge against the Doctor. This season seems to be focused on The Doctor's past mistakes and "redeeming" himself, and I think that clockwork robots returning is part of this as well. The clockwork robot died at the end of the episode, but was brought back presumably by Missy... We normally don't see full on resurrection without time travel or some BS justifying it, but the clockwork bot could have been uploaded into the library computer, similar to how River Song was resurrected. Missy calling it the Nethersphere could be a nod at how River Song came to hate being trapped in the library super computer, and she could be holding a grudge against The Doctor because of that. Being a timelord, River could easily figure out some way to make the library more than just a fake environment. She could be projecting the library into the real world.

The Doctor saw saving River Song as a good thing, but when you think about it... would you like to be uploaded into a computer and spend eternity living in a fake world?
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on August 25, 2014, 12:13:47 AM
I really liked 'Deep Breath' apart from three things:

The Vastra/Jenny "we're married." thing. Yeah, we got it the first time you told us, you don't need to repeat it ad nauseum.

"Oh gosh, isn't the Doctor old?" Why is that so very shocking?

Clara's reaction. As Vauxy said, she's interacted with every previous regeneration, seen the War Doctor, etc.

I'm glad that the episode was given as long as it was to get into its stride, it's a refreshing change of pace from the manic breathlessness of the last couple of seasons. The restaurant scene and the bluff against the clockwork man demonstrated that Clara has potential, I'm still not sold on her a season on yet.

Also, Eleven's posthumous phonecall seemed like a bit of a slap in the face to Capaldi, every other Doctor has been given his own chance to prove himself in the role and win over the fans, I feel like Moffat is treating the audience too preciously with Capaldi.

I'd say 7/10 - Good, but should have been braver and given the audience more credit.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on August 25, 2014, 01:26:24 AM
You bring up some good points. I thought seeing the 11th Doctor was awesome and had a lot of potential in theory, but not how it happened. It was sort of a slap in the face, because I already accepted the new Doctor the moment he popped up.

Clara is rumored to leave at the end of this season. I would be interested in seeing 12 travel alone for a little while.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: The Terror on August 25, 2014, 03:48:01 PM
It felt that Moffitt didn't have faith in Peter Capaldi to win over the audience and needed to have Clara's character do the convincing. Which is pretty ridiculous, since Capaldi was great in the role.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Rushy on August 25, 2014, 03:54:51 PM
He probably just wanted to avoid the same uproar that happened when Matt Smith replaced David Tennant. It didn't really matter that Matt Smith was a good actor, people wanted to whine anyway.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: markjo on August 25, 2014, 04:18:42 PM
It doesn't matter how good of an actor Capaldi is.  The question is how good of a Doctor is he?  Whenever anyone steps into a well established part (actor, singer, whatever), there is always an uproar.  It doesn't matter that Doctor Who has done it 11 times before, people still want their Doctor.  I say give it a few episodes to see how Capaldi settles into the role.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on August 25, 2014, 05:43:46 PM
He probably just wanted to avoid the same uproar that happened when Matt Smith replaced David Tennant. It didn't really matter that Matt Smith was a good actor, people wanted to whine anyway.

I really haven't seen that many people complaining about Capaldi, before or after his debut.

The entire community seems to be taking it very well, with the exception of teenage New Who fans who liked Doctor Who because of the sexy Doctor (Claras). I feel like the Matt Smith thing was thrown in for that specific group of people.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: rooster on August 25, 2014, 05:49:25 PM
Matt Smith is sexy? Hahahahhahahahahahahaahhaha lol okay
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on August 25, 2014, 05:52:04 PM
Matt Smith is sexy? Hahahahhahahahahahahaahhaha lol okay

Judging from your track record: you're not qualified to decide who's sexy and who's not.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: rooster on August 25, 2014, 06:23:50 PM
That's not true. My girlfriends and I largely agree on men. Just the other week a few of us gushed over the babe at a party.

The majority of Who women are attracted to Tennant, that's the "attractive" one. Smith's personality is very charming but he looks like a caveman.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on August 25, 2014, 06:39:34 PM
Birds of a feather
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Saddam Hussein on August 25, 2014, 06:43:53 PM
I just looked up what you guys are talking about.  They really had the old actor show up just to say to the audience another character that this new dude is the same Doctor?  That's dumb.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: EnigmaZV on August 25, 2014, 09:21:02 PM
I think this new doctor is very promising.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: rooster on August 25, 2014, 10:35:28 PM
Birds of a feather
I don't think any of the doctors are attractive, but Tennant is definitely the one most females love.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on August 25, 2014, 11:22:07 PM
Birds of a feather
I don't think any of the doctors are attractive, but Tennant is definitely the one most females love.

I think Tom Baker is incredibly attractive.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on September 12, 2014, 11:22:45 PM
I'm assuming most of you have seen the latest two episodes, Into the Dalek & Robot of Sherwood. Both were very interesting episodes.

Into the Dalek was interesting for a few reasons. Mainly, the Doctor's behavior. I found it very telling when he practically facilitated Ross's death by tricking him into swallowing a tracker. I feel like any other incarnation of The Doctor would have tried to find another way (or even avoided this option all together), but perhaps there really was no other way? Regardless, 10 & 11 would have brooded over something like this, but it doesn't seem to bother 12 at all. 12 is certainly a darker incarnation of The Doctor, and it's starting to feel a bit out of character at times (maybe this is being done on purpose?). Despite that, Peter Capaldi's Doctor is much better than Smith's hands-down. I could go into this further but I don't feel like it right now. 8/10

Robot of Sherwood was... OK. It kept me interested mostly because of Capaldi's performance. We see a lot more of the 12th Doctor's personality here, including his extremely competitive nature in regards to Robin Hood, his reliance on trickery and sleight of hand to further his goals (reminiscent of most other regenerations), and a penchant for childish stubbornness, which is all very endearing. I especially liked the scene where he beat Robin Hood in a sword fight using a spoon. Despite his aged look, The Doctor can still kick your ass. Other than that, pretty bland bare-bones episode. 6/10
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Lord Dave on September 13, 2014, 10:59:46 PM
I've been bad.
Didn't see Robots of Sherwood nor will I see today's episode.

But otherwise I agree.  Reminds me a little of the first doctor.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on September 13, 2014, 11:04:12 PM
I've been bad.
Didn't see Robots of Sherwood nor will I see today's episode.

But otherwise I agree.  Reminds me a little of the first doctor.

Indeed. I believe Peter Capaldi is the same age William Hartnell was when he first started playing the Doctor. The parallels are there.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Lord Dave on September 13, 2014, 11:05:04 PM
I've been bad.
Didn't see Robots of Sherwood nor will I see today's episode.

But otherwise I agree.  Reminds me a little of the first doctor.

Indeed. I believe Peter Capaldi is the same age William Hartnell was when he first started playing the Doctor. The parallels are there.
Plus the whole "First" doctor they share.  He's the first of a new regeneration set.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on September 13, 2014, 11:05:44 PM
I've been bad.
Didn't see Robots of Sherwood nor will I see today's episode.

But otherwise I agree.  Reminds me a little of the first doctor.

Indeed. I believe Peter Capaldi is the same age William Hartnell was when he first started playing the Doctor. The parallels are there.
Plus the whole "First" doctor they share.  He's the first of a new regeneration set.

Was just about to add that to my post. You read my mind.

It seems like this is being done on purpose.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on September 15, 2014, 02:38:40 PM
Listen is currently competing for title of Ghost's Favourite Doctor Who episode. It’s creepy, understated, claustrophobic and delightfully ambiguous. It reminds me a little of the old ITN series Sapphire and Steel or ‘Midnight’ from 10’s era. It’s so refreshing to not have a ‘monster of the week’ and for us to actually have something to ponder over when the credits roll. Is there a shadowy ‘hider’ following everybody? Was the thing under the bedspread just a child or was it something more sinister? Even if they’re real, are they actually evil; after all, they seemed to want to communicate, not kill.

Also, such an improvement on last week’s Robot of Sherwood which is competing for 'worst episode of new-Who' (but still losing out to 'Gods and Monsters').
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on September 15, 2014, 05:08:15 PM
Listen is currently competing for title of Ghost's Favourite Doctor Who episode. It’s creepy, understated, claustrophobic and delightfully ambiguous. It reminds me a little of the old ITN series Sapphire and Steel or ‘Midnight’ from 10’s era. It’s so refreshing to not have a ‘monster of the week’ and for us to actually have something to ponder over when the credits roll. Is there a shadowy ‘hider’ following everybody? Was the thing under the bedspread just a child or was it something more sinister? Even if they’re real, are they actually evil; after all, they seemed to want to communicate, not kill.

Also, such an improvement on last week’s Robot of Sherwood which is competing for 'worst episode of new-Who' (but still losing out to 'Gods and Monsters').

God and Monsters? Do you mean 'Love and Monsters'? I actually like that episode, but I have to overlook some bits of it (Concrete face, for one...).

I have mixed feelings about Listen. It is similar to Midnight (which is one of my favorite DW episodes), but there's no real villain in Listen and I am having a hard time trying to figure out what significance the episode has overall. It was very slow, and when it finally built up it was very anticlimactic. I'm getting annoyed with Clara fiddling with The Doctor's past, and this episode is no different (and it's hard making sense of it to begin with). Now that we know the barn from Day of the Doctor was presumably where the Doctor was born and grew up... does that mean The Doctor was not born on Gallifrey? I was under the impression that the barn was not on Gallifrey in Day of the Doctor. Of course, he could have been born on Gallifrey and relocated, but that seems unlikely. This episode pretty much retcons The Doctor's past, making him a Wild One instead of Gallifreyan, which I find... weird. Regardless, this episode had the best opening scene of any episode I've seen so far: The Doctor sitting indian-style on top of the TARDIS, and a glimpse into what he does when he is not around Clara... perfect! 6/10

Another thing I noticed, it seems like this season is focusing on how wrong The Doctor can be about what's going on around him (among other things). In almost every episode we've seen so far The Doctor has been wrong about what is going on. This episode he thought there were monsters/whatever hiding under our beds (etc), last episode he was convinced Robin Hood was a robot (when he wasn't). Into the Dalek shows the Doctor trying to reform Rusty with his memories, only to have it backfire (making him wrong again). I love 12, but I wonder if this has any significance. The Doctor has been wrong about things before, but they seem to be putting a lot of emphasis on it this go.

Also, I'm tired of Moffat making Clara Oswald the most important person  in The Doctor's life. She's been a companion for a season & a half and she's now the most pivotal character in regards to the Doctor's past. It sort of shits on everything we knew about The Doctor. At this point, if Missy somehow went back and killed Clara before she entered the Doctor's timestream everything would collapse and The Doctor would die. Perhaps this is what Missy is trying to accomplish. Regardless, Clara is still my least favorite companion and I can't wait to see her go after this season.

Another thing that bothered me: Orson Pink is said to be the "first human Time Traveler", and he's only "100 years" in Clara's future. This opens up a huge can of worms. Not only do we not see time traveling humans almost ever in the series, but the ones we have seen are certainly not from 2114 (they are from much much later in Earth's future, see episode: Hide). I guess Moffat just wasn't thinking straight when he wrote that bit. It seems like a glaring plot hole.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on September 15, 2014, 08:20:55 PM
Quote
God and Monsters? Do you mean 'Love and Monsters'?

That's the one. There are literally no redeeming features in it for me.

Quote
but there's no real villain in Listen and I am having a hard time trying to figure out what significance the episode has overall.

I liked that there was no villain, and I prefer isolated stories to Moffat's increasingly ridiculous story arcs. The fact that we still don't know what, if anything, these monsters are or what they want is creepy and haunting.

Quote
does that mean The Doctor was not born on Gallifrey?

There are deliberate parallels with Danny Pink in this episode, and it seems unlikely that the adults speaking are his parents, perhaps he was born on Gallifrey and sent to a children's home on one of the Time Lord's other planets/ moons?

I also hate Clara. She's really good when she's just being normal and matey with the Doctor. I hate the overwrought 'Impossible Girl' elements to her character.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on September 15, 2014, 08:26:16 PM
The Danny Pink/Doctor parallels are there, yeah. It's interesting. I wonder if Danny Pink will end up dying, going to Heaven/Promised Land/whatever. He might be converted by Missy into fighting the Doctor, which could put a strain on The Doctor and Clara's relationship leading to her departure?
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Jack1704 on October 18, 2014, 07:07:24 PM
Is it just me or does anyone else see Malcolm Tucker when he does he bigger speeches and wishes he would just start swearing at Daleks?
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on October 18, 2014, 07:08:17 PM
Is it just me or does anyone else see Malcolm Tucker when he does he bigger speeches and wishes he would just start swearing at Daleks?

He said "shutty upity" in one episode. Does that count?
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Jack1704 on October 18, 2014, 07:17:11 PM
Is it just me or does anyone else see Malcolm Tucker when he does he bigger speeches and wishes he would just start swearing at Daleks?

He said "shutty upity" in one episode. Does that count?
HA HA

But its not quite:

And I would rain down on you so hard, you would have to be reassembled by f*cking air crash investigators. DO NOT F*CKING interrupt me, son, ever! Now get this into the noggin, right. You breathe a word of this, to anyone, you mincing f*cking C*NT, and I will tear your fucking skin off, I will wear it to your mother's birthday party, and I will rub your nuts up and down her leg whilst whistling Bohemian fucking Rhapsody, right!?
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Lord Dave on October 18, 2014, 07:29:54 PM
I haven't seen an episode since they went into the Dalek.

I'm a bad Who fan. :(
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Jack1704 on October 18, 2014, 07:33:50 PM
I haven't seen an episode since they went into the Dalek.

I'm a bad Who fan. :(
That wasn't the best episode I have seen.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on October 18, 2014, 07:34:51 PM
I haven't seen an episode since they went into the Dalek.

I'm a bad Who fan. :(

That was the second episode.. :O
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Lord Dave on October 18, 2014, 07:36:42 PM
I haven't seen an episode since they went into the Dalek.

I'm a bad Who fan. :(

That was the second episode.. :O

What are we up to now?
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on October 18, 2014, 07:38:24 PM
I haven't seen an episode since they went into the Dalek.

I'm a bad Who fan. :(

That was the second episode.. :O

What are we up to now?

We are 8 episodes into Season 8 now, with #9 coming out tonight.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Rushy on October 18, 2014, 07:42:29 PM
The day can't come soon enough that cable TV subscriptions reach a critical reduction in mass and die off so that I can finally stream new shows online in peace.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Jack1704 on October 18, 2014, 07:54:45 PM
It finishes here in about 15 minutes. Havent seen it yet.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on October 18, 2014, 08:01:31 PM
Hopefully "Flatline" is better than the "next time" teaser made it out to be.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Jack1704 on October 18, 2014, 08:12:01 PM
The programme has so much potential but lets itself down really badly. The one on the train last week was poor.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on October 18, 2014, 08:15:36 PM
The programme has so much potential but lets itself down really badly. The one on the train last week was poor.

I thought it was one of the better episodes this season. My least favorites this season so far are Listen and Kill the Moon. I thought the debut episode was great, and Into the Dalek was pretty good... I think that was mostly due to Capaldi's performance though.

The stories have been pretty weak or just completely unbelievable (Kill the Moon), even for DW standards.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Jack1704 on October 18, 2014, 10:32:57 PM
Really, it thought it was one of the worst.

I think I have seen one similar to it before just cant recall it.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on October 19, 2014, 11:23:42 AM
I'm really enjoying this season, even some of the weaker episodes like 'Kill the Moon' have been enjoyable as long as you don't treat it as hard SF. The only exception to this to me is 'Robot of Sherwood' which was on the verge of unwatchable. 'Flatline' and 'Listen' are two of my favourite Who episodes.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Jack1704 on October 20, 2014, 10:17:07 PM
Watched Flatline last night. Never laughed so much in my life.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on October 20, 2014, 10:21:30 PM
Watched Flatline last night. Never laughed so much in my life.

Why so?
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Jack1704 on October 20, 2014, 10:23:40 PM
Watched Flatline last night. Never laughed so much in my life.

Why so?
Capaldis man head peeking out of a tiny door, Or his hand just appearing out Clara's back. Or him being Thing from the Addams Family.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on October 20, 2014, 10:24:20 PM
Watched Flatline last night. Never laughed so much in my life.

Why so?
Capaldis man head peeking out of a tiny door, Or his hand just appearing out Clara's back. Or him being Thing from the Addams Family.

Oh, I thought you were implying that it was terrible and laughable.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Jack1704 on October 20, 2014, 10:27:39 PM
Watched Flatline last night. Never laughed so much in my life.

Why so?
Capaldis man head peeking out of a tiny door, Or his hand just appearing out Clara's back. Or him being Thing from the Addams Family.

Oh, I thought you were implying that it was terrible and laughable.
No it was a decent episode with a good bit of comedy thrown in.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on October 20, 2014, 10:31:18 PM
Watched Flatline last night. Never laughed so much in my life.

Why so?
Capaldis man head peeking out of a tiny door, Or his hand just appearing out Clara's back. Or him being Thing from the Addams Family.

Oh, I thought you were implying that it was terrible and laughable.
No it was a decent episode with a good bit of comedy thrown in.

That is pretty much my assessment as well . It felt like an RTD episode that would have been perfect for the 10th Doctor, but 12 was great as always (and his speech was cool). I did notice some production errors though, like Capaldi's hair being longer/shorter depending on the scene, but I guess that's because the episodes are usually filmed out of order.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Jack1704 on October 20, 2014, 10:42:21 PM
Watched Flatline last night. Never laughed so much in my life.

Why so?
Capaldis man head peeking out of a tiny door, Or his hand just appearing out Clara's back. Or him being Thing from the Addams Family.

Oh, I thought you were implying that it was terrible and laughable.
No it was a decent episode with a good bit of comedy thrown in.

That is pretty much my assessment as well . It felt like an RTD episode that would have been perfect for the 10th Doctor, but 12 was great as always (and his speech was cool). I did notice some production errors though, like Capaldi's hair being longer/shorter depending on the scene, but I guess that's because the episodes are usually filmed out of order.
To make it more interesting they should do the whole programme with Capaldi but just for one scene get another DR to do it and leave it as if nothing strange had happened
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on October 20, 2014, 10:49:16 PM
Watched Flatline last night. Never laughed so much in my life.

Why so?
Capaldis man head peeking out of a tiny door, Or his hand just appearing out Clara's back. Or him being Thing from the Addams Family.

Oh, I thought you were implying that it was terrible and laughable.
No it was a decent episode with a good bit of comedy thrown in.

That is pretty much my assessment as well . It felt like an RTD episode that would have been perfect for the 10th Doctor, but 12 was great as always (and his speech was cool). I did notice some production errors though, like Capaldi's hair being longer/shorter depending on the scene, but I guess that's because the episodes are usually filmed out of order.
To make it more interesting they should do the whole programme with Capaldi but just for one scene get another DR to do it and leave it as if nothing strange had happened

Or they could just start a spin-off series with the 8th Doctor.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Jack1704 on October 20, 2014, 10:52:41 PM
Watched Flatline last night. Never laughed so much in my life.

Why so?
Capaldis man head peeking out of a tiny door, Or his hand just appearing out Clara's back. Or him being Thing from the Addams Family.

Oh, I thought you were implying that it was terrible and laughable.
No it was a decent episode with a good bit of comedy thrown in.

That is pretty much my assessment as well . It felt like an RTD episode that would have been perfect for the 10th Doctor, but 12 was great as always (and his speech was cool). I did notice some production errors though, like Capaldi's hair being longer/shorter depending on the scene, but I guess that's because the episodes are usually filmed out of order.
To make it more interesting they should do the whole programme with Capaldi but just for one scene get another DR to do it and leave it as if nothing strange had happened

Or they could just start a spin-off series with the 8th Doctor.
That is bloody genius. But get ACE in from the 7th to add that added element
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on October 21, 2014, 07:17:12 PM
The 8th Doctor was brilliant in the audiobooks and I confess I squealed when Paul McGann appeared briefly in Night of the Doctor.

Bonus, he's always said that he's happy to come back to Doctor Who as long as he doesn't have to wear a great big wig like the TV Movie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-U3jrS-uhuo
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on October 21, 2014, 07:18:46 PM
I feel the same way about the 8th Doctor. He's probably my favorite incarnation, because he personifies the Doctor perfectly in my opinion. I freaked when he was in Night of the Doctor as well.

Hopefully we'll see him on screen again in the future, but I'm starting to doubt it.

"I'm a Doctor... but probably not the one you were expecting."

^ best line in all of Who
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Jack1704 on October 21, 2014, 07:40:09 PM
Errrrrrrrrrrr that's the first time I have ever see that.

My mind is confused. Have I missed a memo?
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on October 21, 2014, 07:46:04 PM
Errrrrrrrrrrr that's the first time I have ever see that.

My mind is confused. Have I missed a memo?

It was released as a short lead-in to The Day of the Doctor, just showing the circumstances of how the War Doctor came to be.


Either way, I think the War Doctor is ridiculous and unnecessary. Originally Moffat wanted Christopher Eccleston to play the War Doctor's role, but couldn't get him on board so he created a completely new incarnation who was supposed to be "dark" and more violent than the Doctor... yet he turned out to be exactly like The Doctor in almost every way.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on October 21, 2014, 08:14:29 PM
Except that 9 couldn't have been the War Doctor. In 'Rose' there's a comment to the effect that he hasn't seen his new regeneration yet.

When we see the dark and violent War Doctor, he's exhausted and fed up with the war. No other incarnation would have even considered using The Moment.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on October 21, 2014, 08:53:56 PM
Except that 9 couldn't have been the War Doctor. In 'Rose' there's a comment to the effect that he hasn't seen his new regeneration yet.

When we see the dark and violent War Doctor, he's exhausted and fed up with the war. No other incarnation would have even considered using The Moment.

Except they all consider using The Moment at the end of Day of the Doctor. They don't change their minds until 11 reveals that he has figured out a way to save the Time Lords.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: markjo on October 21, 2014, 08:55:36 PM
Except that 9 couldn't have been the War Doctor. In 'Rose' there's a comment to the effect that he hasn't seen his new regeneration yet.

When we see the dark and violent War Doctor, he's exhausted and fed up with the war. No other incarnation would have even considered using The Moment.
lrn2retcon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retroactive_continuity)
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on October 21, 2014, 09:08:51 PM
Also, now that I'm thinking about it....

In Rose the Doctor seems surprised when he looks at himself in the mirror, yet we find out later that 9 has already been travelling since then for quite a while. The conspiracy guy shows Rose pictures that have 9 in them, one before the Titanic set sail and one at the Kennedy assassination.

(http://i.imgur.com/6S7Wl51.jpg)

Is this a plothole? Did 9 not look at himself until Rose? That seems really out of character for The Doctor.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on October 24, 2014, 09:08:00 AM
I think you're forgetting that he's a time-traveller. The pictures of him with JFK and the Titanic are pictures taken later in the Doctor's own personal timeline, after Rose but before The Parting of the Ways.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on October 24, 2014, 04:12:53 PM
Rose should be in the pictures if that is the case. 9 spent his entire life with Rose, for the most part.

I guess that's stretching it though. The pictures could have easily been taken after Rose.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Lord Dave on October 24, 2014, 08:38:18 PM
You guys are forgetting one thing:

The Doctor (in his mind) just did the worst thing in the universe.  I doubt he could look himself in the mirror after that.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on October 24, 2014, 10:10:31 PM
You guys are forgetting one thing:

The Doctor (in his mind) just did the worst thing in the universe.  I doubt he could look himself in the mirror after that.

He looks at himself in the mirror in Rose. Which supposedly takes place right after regeneration.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Lord Dave on October 25, 2014, 12:26:47 AM
You guys are forgetting one thing:

The Doctor (in his mind) just did the worst thing in the universe.  I doubt he could look himself in the mirror after that.

He looks at himself in the mirror in Rose. Which supposedly takes place right after regeneration.
Fair point.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on October 29, 2014, 11:29:45 PM
The season finale starts this Saturday.

Dark Water Trailer
http://youtu.be/p77bcLPQp3M

Missy is Clara. I'm calling it now. That was my initial theory when she first showed up in Deep Breath, and this next time trailer just reinforces my position. We'll see how it plays out, though.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on November 01, 2014, 10:27:36 PM
Dark Water is out today! I haven't seen it yet, but will by the end of the day.

Post your impressions here.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: markjo on November 02, 2014, 04:20:02 AM
Missy is Clara. I'm calling it now.
Incorrect.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on November 02, 2014, 08:50:22 AM
Yeah yeah. Don't rub it in. Moffat tricked me.

Anyways, great episode. The Missy reveal was excellent, but raises a few questions that will hopefully be answered in the next episode.

In the Forest of the Night's "next time" was obviously some sort of bait n switch tactic. It clearly made Clara look like the enemy. While she wasn't quite the enemy this episode, she did pull some BS on The Doctor (even if it was in a dream state) that will certainly put some serious strain on their relationship. Looks like we will be saying goodbye to Clara this season (although it will probably be the Christmas episode when we see the last of her), that is if the rumors of her departure are true. I'm sure the opening of this episode has something to do with it as well, but clearly my track record is not impressive here.


Dark Water is probably the best episode of season 8, at least in my opinion. I haven't been this hyped for a Doctor Who finale since The Pandorica Opens. It makes up for some of the dull episodes we've been seeing.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on November 03, 2014, 11:02:08 AM
In a way, I'm disappointed that all of the 'Nethersphere and the creepy watery mausoleum was just a cyberman front, I was really enjoying the creepy 'death is only the beginning' vibe. Especially the Three Words, after seeing my uncle cremated about a month ago, it sent a shiver down my spine.

That said, this was a great episode which is shaping up to cap off a great season of Who. It's had its duff episodes and weak moments (want to scrub 'Robot of Sherwood' from my mind.) but it's had some funny moments, creepy, original stories, some moments of great acting, and a calmer, more grounded Doctor.

bring on 'A Death in Heaven.' (Which is something I rarely say about NuWho's season finales.)
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on November 08, 2014, 01:09:46 AM
Peter Capaldi just made a video in character for a young autistic kid who just lost his nanny.

http://youtu.be/AZuNA8zMeSE

Pretty cool.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on November 08, 2014, 08:22:40 PM
Season finale tonight!!!

Lord Dave, you need to catch up!  >o<
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Lord Dave on November 08, 2014, 08:34:00 PM
Season finale tonight!!!

Lord Dave, you need to catch up!  >o<

I'll watch it when it comes out on netflix.  I'm too damn tired at 9pm.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: markjo on November 08, 2014, 08:53:19 PM
Season finale tonight!!!

Lord Dave, you need to catch up!  >o<

I'll watch it when it comes out on netflix.  I'm too damn tired at 9pm.
lrn2dvr
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on November 08, 2014, 09:19:23 PM
Clara's gun die. Calling it

Although this would make Clara's time traveling relatives in Listen a paradox, but I'm willing to risk it. Why else would it be called Death in Heaven?
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Lord Dave on November 08, 2014, 09:22:42 PM
Season finale tonight!!!

Lord Dave, you need to catch up!  >o<

I'll watch it when it comes out on netflix.  I'm too damn tired at 9pm.
lrn2dvr
I don't have cable TV so... that doesn't apply.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on November 08, 2014, 10:39:30 PM
Clara's gun die. Calling it

I was wrong again. GDI
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: markjo on November 09, 2014, 03:14:13 AM
Clara's gun die. Calling it

I was wrong again. GDI
At least you're consistent.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on November 10, 2014, 05:23:41 AM
I have some serious complaints about Death in Heaven. I don't feel like typing it all up now, but they are coming soon.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: markjo on November 10, 2014, 06:09:03 AM
I have some serious complaints about Death in Heaven.

BAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWW!!!
ftfy
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on November 10, 2014, 08:51:15 AM
Finally, an enjoyable season finale and a comforting step back from "I'M GONNA DESTROY EVERY UNIVERSE! BWAHAHAHAHAHAA!!"
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on November 10, 2014, 07:49:06 PM
Finally, an enjoyable season finale and a comforting step back from "I'M GONNA DESTROY EVERY UNIVERSE! BWAHAHAHAHAHAA!!"

That was refreshing, but Missy thinking that The Doctor would take an army of dead humans and conquer the universe with them was moronic. I thought she knew him better than that. What was her end-game here? I understand she set up The Doctor's and Clara's relationship to save Gallifrey and by extension: save herself. But what about after that? What was the point of all this? She kills Osgood after The Doctor offers her companionship, then practically begs The Doctor to work by her side to conquer the universe? Fuckin'stupid. I felt the entire episode was anti-climatic because everything was so sudden. I understand that death is sudden, but that's no excuse for sloppy writing. Nothing was accomplished. Gallifrey is still lost. Danny is still dead (*thumbs up*). Clara and The Doctor are done. Missy was presumably teleported somewhere. But I still feel like nothing happened.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: markjo on November 10, 2014, 08:12:37 PM
Finally, an enjoyable season finale and a comforting step back from "I'M GONNA DESTROY EVERY UNIVERSE! BWAHAHAHAHAHAA!!"

That was refreshing, but Missy thinking that The Doctor would take an army of dead humans and conquer the universe with them was moronic. I thought she knew him better than that.
Not conquer the universe, fix the universe, as he is so wont to do.

What was her end-game here?
Have you ever heard the saying "Power corrupts; absolute power sounds kinda neat"?  Obviously she was tempting the Doctor to see if he would fall into the same trap that so many other do gooders fall into.

Clara and The Doctor are done. Missy was presumably teleported somewhere.
No, Missy was presumably disintegrated by the Brigadier.  Whether or not she actually teleported, or still exists in some other timeline, is yet to be determined.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on November 10, 2014, 08:30:38 PM
What does Missy care about fixing the universe? And in response to your second response:

I thought she knew him better than that.

Missy's 'plan' was weak (and ended in a deus ex machina), and it felt like Moffat made up the conflict at the last minute because he wanted to add Missy somehow to shock the fans with a female Master. Moffat has also stated that we haven't seen the end of Missy, so she's not dead if Moffat is telling the truth (salt). Every time we saw someone die it was with an orangish hue, but Missy was vaporized with a bluish-hue (which we see earlier in the episode when people teleport).

The whole "cyber pollen" in the rain thing did not make any sense to me. I know this is Doctor Who, and it's Science-Fantasy... but usually the writers tried to make a bit of sense with their 'science', especially with finales. My biggest question: how were skeletons turned into Cyberman? Where did they get the metal? Wtf is going on?
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on November 10, 2014, 08:37:37 PM
Quote
usually the writers tried to make a bit of sense with their 'science'

The universe is falling through a crack in time which is making the stars go out. but that's ok, because the Doctor can 're-boot' the universe by flying a box of magical immortality light into the perpetually exploding heart of a dying time machine.

The Daleks have stolen a number of planets to make an 'alignment' which will activate a 'reality bomb which will explode everywhere at all times but it's ok because the Doctor can tow the Earth back into place without any negative effects.

Dat's science right dere.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on November 10, 2014, 08:50:50 PM
Quote
usually the writers tried to make a bit of sense with their 'science'

The universe is falling through a crack in time which is making the stars go out. but that's ok, because the Doctor can 're-boot' the universe by flying a box of magical immortality light into the perpetually exploding heart of a dying time machine.

The Daleks have stolen a number of planets to make an 'alignment' which will activate a 'reality bomb which will explode everywhere at all times but it's ok because the Doctor can tow the Earth back into place without any negative effects.

Dat's science right dere.

'Science' is different than science. And like I said, Doctor Who is science-fantasy. I'm fully aware of how ridiculous some of the stuff in DW is. Believe me. But rain turning people into robots, without any source of metal is way over the top. They didn't even bother to explain it any more than "oh shit cyber pollen!" because they knew it was ridiculous. Dead people turning into robots, good concept, but maybe they should have thought about the execution a bit before airing something that makes absolutely no sense. This is just a small nitpick, and I'm sure you can rationalize it however you want. I just feel like this episode was significantly worse than Dark Water. Dark Water was building up to something great, but Moffat did not deliver.

I did enjoy the episode, and it was easily better than the last two season finales if only for the scene where The Doctor smashes up the TARDIS.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on November 10, 2014, 09:06:58 PM
I don't see how cyber-rain is any less believable than magic universe-curing box, but whatever.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on November 10, 2014, 09:11:20 PM
I don't see how cyber-rain is any less believable than magic universe-curing box, but whatever.

Yes, let's move on.

What did you think of the finale?
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on November 10, 2014, 09:25:48 PM
I enjoyed it, nice to see a character-driven finale rather than a whizz-bang fireworks show. There were problems, the nature of the cyber-rain among them, why the guards seemed to just let Missy go, the OTT general's speech at the end, but generally pretty good.

Mind you, I go into season-finales with very low expectations.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Jack1704 on November 14, 2014, 02:21:51 PM
The Xmas trailer does look quit good
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on November 15, 2014, 10:59:02 PM
I'm going to try to sum up my feelings for Season 8. Spoilers incoming

It was interesting, but underwhelming and flat at times. Peter Capaldi as The Doctor was great. He's perfect for the role. He just looks like a Time Lord, and I swear I've seen him pull off several past Doctor expressions. He reminds me a bit of 4, with a mixture of 6, and a good helping of the 1st. He's not quite my favorite Doctor yet, but he's close. I certainly like him more than 9, 10, and 11.  The only problem was that the writing wasn't the greatest, so I don't think we saw the full range of Peter Capaldi's acting. We get to see him act like a selfish child, a protective grandfather, an arrogant know-it-all, but we don't really get to see much of his problem solving methods this season due to the crappy deus-ex resolutions in many of the episodes. This season was enjoyable, but Moffat still does not know how to write a satisfying season long arc story which hurt my enjoyment of it a bit.  Also, his attempts at character development fall a bit flat at times. Especially with Clara and Danny, which I felt became even more two-dimensional than they were previously. With the exception of Clara, who just turned into a bigger bitch.

Deep Breath was a decent opening episode, but ultimately forgettable.  The Eleventh Hour serves as a better introduction to the show, but I understand that not every season opener is an introduction to the entire series.  It showed some interesting regeneration trauma and how far 12 was willing to go to get shit done ("I think I'm going to have to kill you" being my favorite line in the entire season). I enjoyed the ambiguity at the end, not knowing if The Doctor pushed or the Robot jumped willingly. I'm sure we'll never get a straight answer. This episode introduced the "Promised Land/Heaven/Netherpshere" concept, which I felt was implemented weakly throughout.  Why were the Clockwork Robots trying to get to the Nethersphere? I thought Missy needed living-breathing-people as hosts? Whatever. I did enjoy the throwbacks to Girl in the Fireplace, though. Nice touch.

Then we get Into The Dalek, which is one of my favorite episodes this season.  Capaldi's portrayal of The Doctor really shines this episode. The Doctor lies, tricks a guy into basically committing suicide, and completely misses the point but ultimately saves the day by inserting himself into the consciousness of a Dalek (which I thought was a really great scene). Oh, and Missy takes a human into the Nethersphere. Which makes sense, good job Moffat! This is probably the best Dalek episode in New Who, in my opinion.

What followed: Robot of Sherwood, was a lighthearted romp across medieval England with Robin Hood where everyone turned out to be robits or something. Of course, these robots were also searching for the Promised Land. Which still doesn't make sense. Sherwood was not memorable at all, and the ending where Robin Hood's ladylove is brought back by The Doctor's magic just felt tacky and stupid. Definite thumbs down for this episode, although The Doctor's sword-fighting with a spoon was great.

Listen is probably my least favorite episode this season. I don't understand why people like it so much. I think it's shallow, boring, anti-climatic, and ultimately pointless. The opening scene is great, probably the best in New Who (The Doctor sitting on top of the TARDIS underwater), but other than that... gag-material. The Doctor is chasing an imaginary monster the whole episode, which turns out to be (*gasp*) Clara. Wow! So edgy and smart.  We get to see a glimpse of The Doctor as a child, which was underwhelming and completely unnecessary. If I had to give this episode a ranking it would be 3/10. Future Orson Pink doesn't make sense. Considering that Danny is dead, even if Clara is pregnant she still does not have Danny's last name because they were never married... so I don't know how that happened. I felt like this might have been an important plot point in a future episode (maybe the finale), but it was never mentioned again and feels like a missed opportunity. This whole episode was a missed opportunity.

Time Heist was entertaining and smart. Pretty solid episode. The twist at the end, while predictable in hindsight, was cool at the time. The Caretaker, on the other hand, was more flat forced drama between the characters. Moffat, you suck at character development. I disliked Clara even more after this episode, but still enjoyed the episode overall. Again, more robots as villains. Which seems to be a running theme this season. The main focus was the drama between the characters, and Danny finding out about The Doctor's origins. The Doctor's undercover persona was amusing, though.

Kill The Moon, er.... why does this episode even exist? So the moon is actually a giant alien egg that gets replaced with other eggs after the creatures hatch, and this has happened in the past? And humans don't remember the last time this happened?  Not to mention the shoddy science going on. The whole "kill the creature or we're doomed" scenario has been played out many times now, and this one was the worst of them all. Not only were we judged for wanting to save Earth (which, to me, was the obvious choice); the choice was ultimately made moot when the creature hatched, laid another egg, and flew off without consequence. Clara's choice was pointless and The Doctor's judgment was unnecessary. I blame this episode on bad writing.

Mummy on the Orient Express and Flatline were fun one-off episodes. I have no real issues with these episodes. They were classic Who adventures.

In the Forest of the Night had potential, but wasted it. We get some forced Clara/Danny character development. We find out Danny likes kids a lot, and that Clara might be preggers or something and has something important to tell Danny. Earth gets covered with trees that cannot be burned down. These trees were actually some sort of alien forest spirit magic defense mechanism to protect Earth from powerful solar-flares which has apparently been happening since the dawn of Earth (yet no one remembers, again). Alright. This episode felt more fantasy than sci-fi, and the ending where the little girl's sister is brought back by the forest spirits (or something) suffers the same problem as Robot of Sherwood's "she's back!" ending. It was too sudden, made no sense, and really didn't add anything to the story. Pretty bland overall.

Now we get into the finale: Dark Water and Death in Heaven. The first part was amazing. I loved it. It was creepy, dark, and mysterious. We find out the identity of Missy, which was a great reveal and took me by surprise. We find out about her master plan: turn dead people into Cybermen, and we get to see the Doctor flabbergasted. All really good. Then we get into the second part, which dips in quality significantly. Starting from the red herring intro, which I guess is supposed to make us think that Clara is the Doctor? Ended up feeling tacky. It was more of a character piece, but it was still lacking in that department. Danny in the Nethersphere didn't make much sense, especially after Missy went ahead and started the conversion process. He was given the option to erase his emotions, which he never takes... and is still made into a Cyberman. This seems like a bad idea for someone who wants to make an army of emotionless killing machines. Why didn't Missy wait until everyone had their emotions erased? Regardless, even after Danny willingly erases his emotions... he still overcomes by the power of love. Wow. Like we haven't seen that before. The season finale was resolved with the power of love, which felt like a lazy deus-ex to me... not to mention it has been done  100+ times before. I'm not even going to start on the amount of plotholes this episode introduced. Overall, pretty disappointing finale. It felt unfinished, because nothing was resolved. The bits between Missy and The Doctor were great, but I felt they didn't get enough screen time together.

Overall, I give this season a 6/10. Much better than last season and the season before it, but still not as good as RTD-era Who and Season 5. I feel like there were many missed opportunities. It focused too much on the drama between Clara, The Doctor, and Danny that it lost sight of its ultimate goal: wacky sci-fi adventures. I may seem overly critical, but my love for the show has not decreased in the slightest. I’m excited for the christmas special and season 9, but I am going to keep my expectations low from now on.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on November 16, 2014, 10:16:52 AM
Mostly agree with your summary but I have to disagree with Listen.

To me, it was a great vehicle to show how this Doctor thinks when he's left to his own devices, picking away at problems which only he's considered. That we're never really sure whether there is anything under the bed or in the TARDIS or on the surface of the Last Planet makes it far more interesting than a standard creepy monster caper. I think that this was Capaldi's strongest performance all season, too.

The biggest problem that I had with this season is that they really seemed to overdo the shock and confusion that regeneration has caused the Doctor. Most regenerations have had one or two episodes to find their feet and discover who they are but this seems to have been the overriding theme of the whole season. It will be interesting to see a more confident Doctor in his stride for Season 9 now that he knows that he's 'an idiot with a box.'
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on November 16, 2014, 08:49:11 PM
I've noticed that Listen seems to divide fans, and I guess we're a perfect example of this. It was an enjoyable episode, but I guess I was just let down by the abstract nature of the threat, and the sort of abstract resolution. It's not a terrible episode by any means, many people seem to really like it, but it just wasn't for me.

I'm not sure what you mean by your regeneration trauma point. Are you talking about The Doctor's confusion and borderline obsession with being a "good man"? Because that was played out a bit. The bits about soldiers and officers seemed forced as well. We know that The Doctor is not a bad guy, and The Doctor should know that too. I did enjoy his revelation in the finale, which pretty much amounted to: "I'm just an idiot with a box, it doesn't even matter".

Another point that seems to divide the fan base is the death of Osgood. Which I actually liked a lot. It seems to me that Osgood was the personification of the tumblr Matt Smith obsessed crowd, and killing her off was a genius way of saying "move on".

Nice Valeyard avatar, btw. A lot of people seem to dislike Trial of a Time Lord but it's one of my favorite Old Who serials.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on November 26, 2014, 09:34:59 PM
Capaldi confirmed for season 9 and 10.

http://www.ibtimes.com/doctor-who-star-peter-capaldi-confirmed-season-9-10-will-jenna-louise-coleman-return-1724991
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on January 06, 2015, 06:47:34 AM
Just watched The Last Christmas.

It was one of the better Christmas specials, if not the only Christmas episode I've ever somewhat enjoyed. Although it was just a mix of Inception and Half-Life headcrabs. The way it handled Clara and The Doctor's reunion was surprisingly well done for a Moffat script, but the "twists" (if you can call it that) were predictable and felt contrived.

One interesting thing I noticed was that towards the end when the Doctor wakes up, he's in the same set used for Clara's dream in which she tosses the TARDIS keys into what looks like a volcano. Maybe this is significant? Or maybe just the production team reusing an old set.


Also, Nick Frost was kinda funny at times. Although I had a hard time matching his voice to my childhood preconceptions of Santa.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost Spaghetti on January 07, 2015, 02:09:23 PM
Just watched The Last Christmas.

It was one of the better Christmas specials, if not the only Christmas episode I've ever somewhat enjoyed. Although it was just a mix of Inception and Half-Life headcrabs. The way it handled Clara and The Doctor's reunion was surprisingly well done for a Moffat script, but the "twists" (if you can call it that) were predictable and felt contrived.

One interesting thing I noticed was that towards the end when the Doctor wakes up, he's in the same set used for Clara's dream in which she tosses the TARDIS keys into what looks like a volcano. Maybe this is significant? Or maybe just the production team reusing an old set.


Also, Nick Frost was kinda funny at times. Although I had a hard time matching his voice to my childhood preconceptions of Santa.

I really enjoyed Last Christmas, but I don't know whether it's just because my expectation for Moffat-era xmas specials is so very low or whether it's because it's a classic 'Base under Siege' story that Doctor Who handles really well. I think the volcano was just re-using a set to be honest.
Title: Re: Doctor Who
Post by: Ghost of V on January 07, 2015, 05:41:49 PM
I think the volcano was just re-using a set to be honest.

That's what I thought at first, but after thinking about it closely this theory doesn't really make sense. If they wanted to be cost effective they would've had the Doctor wake up in the TARDIS, no reason to take an old set out for reuse when they have the TARDIS set always up for the show. If the volcano wasn't significant, I don't think the Doctor would be waking up there.

Maybe this ties into the whole "how did I get my face" subplot. The Doctor could have been investigating volcanoes, but I thought Moffat was finished with that silliness.

Also, at the end of Death in Heaven we see Santa Claus. Does that mean The Doctor was dreaming during that scene? Maybe Death in Heaven was a dream. /Moffat