The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Theory => Topic started by: Yaakov ben Avraham on January 15, 2014, 03:27:36 AM

Title: Sailing a Columbian ship to the edge.
Post by: Yaakov ben Avraham on January 15, 2014, 03:27:36 AM
Greeting. I am writing my dissertation on Christopher Columbus, & although it focusses on his religious beliefs, I need to know as much as possible about sailing theory in the XVI Century. Although most people believed the world to be round, Columbus himself eventually believed it was pear-shaped! But, lets assume the world were flat, & he had reached the edge. What would have happened @ that point? This is where I get confused. Any thoughts? I need AS MUCH DATA AS POSSIBLE. So don't hold back!
Title: Re: Sailing a Columbian ship to the edge.
Post by: Alchemist21 on January 15, 2014, 04:05:38 AM
Depends on what model you use.  He either hits Antarctica, freezes out in the dark waters somewhere, or hits the Firmament. 
Title: Re: Sailing a Columbian ship to the edge.
Post by: jroa on January 15, 2014, 04:13:40 AM
Antartica is the rim continent, known to the REers as the ice wall.  It would have prevented him from reaching the edge. 
Title: Re: Sailing a Columbian ship to the edge.
Post by: Tintagel on January 15, 2014, 12:44:35 PM
The most common model has the continent of Antarctica wrapped around the edge like an ice wall.  Of course, given the course that Columbus was on, he'd not have reached this ice wall, as he was traveling in a circle around the disc.

Some of us, myself included, support the infinite plane model, where there is no edge.
Title: Re: Sailing a Columbian ship to the edge.
Post by: Yaakov ben Avraham on January 15, 2014, 03:15:14 PM
Tintagel, I have heard of the Infinite Plane concept, but what is it? Forgive me if that sounds like a stupid question, but do break it down for me.
Title: Re: Sailing a Columbian ship to the edge.
Post by: Tintagel on January 15, 2014, 03:50:51 PM
Tintagel, I have heard of the Infinite Plane concept, but what is it? Forgive me if that sounds like a stupid question, but do break it down for me.

Just as it sounds, the earth extends forever.  Some still use the monopole disc model, but simply contend that beyond antarctica, the earth just keeps going.

My model is slightly more esoteric in that my infinite plane loops back onto itself, and therefore Antarctica is a distinct continent.
Title: Re: Sailing a Columbian ship to the edge.
Post by: Thork on January 15, 2014, 04:44:33 PM
Would you not be better focussing your studies on prevailing winds, places like the Azores and filling the boat with limes?

I think things like that will score you more heavily than the prospect he may or may not have know earth's shape.
Title: Re: Sailing a Columbian ship to the edge.
Post by: Alchemist21 on January 15, 2014, 09:13:33 PM
Tintagel, there would probably be an ice wall on an infinite plane earth.  It doesn't have to be Antarctica, but the water would all freeze without any sunlight.
Title: Re: Sailing a Columbian ship to the edge.
Post by: Yaakov ben Avraham on January 15, 2014, 10:11:51 PM
Alchemist, would it? It doesn't 5 miles deep, where no sunlight penetrates, & animals produce their own light sources to see.
Title: Re: Sailing a Columbian ship to the edge.
Post by: Thork on January 15, 2014, 10:33:41 PM
Just as an aside a popular reference to Columbus thinking the earth was round and everyone else thinking it was flat comes from Gershwin & Gershwin's song titled "They all Laughed" famously danced to by Frank Sinatra in "Shall We Dance" amongst others.

The second verse goes as follows
They all laughed at Christopher Columbus
 When he said the world was round
 They all laughed when Edison recorded sound
 They all laughed at Wilbur and his brother
 When they said that man could fly


Now I can tell you people did not laugh when Edison recorded sound. In fact it was hailed as one of the greatest industrial achievements of all time when he did it.
I can also tell you that no one laughed at the Wright brothers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftsrQFi-6pQ

Title: Re: Sailing a Columbian ship to the edge.
Post by: Yaakov ben Avraham on January 15, 2014, 10:47:07 PM
& the idea that everyone except Columbus thought the world was flat was popularised by Washington Irving.
Title: Re: Sailing a Columbian ship to the edge.
Post by: Thork on January 15, 2014, 10:49:34 PM
Which brings me to the question why are you writing about Columbus thinking the earth was flat?
Title: Re: Sailing a Columbian ship to the edge.
Post by: Yaakov ben Avraham on January 16, 2014, 03:28:31 AM
No, Thork. Columbus did not think the Earth was flat, nor am I writing about that. In fact, toward the end of his life, he began to believe it was pear-shaped! I'm actually writing about Columbus' religious beliefs. But Ms. Garwood believes that Charles Johnson believed that Columbus was actually a Flatter. In fact, she quotes Johnson saying so. Right now, I'm @ the very beginning of my research, so I'm gathering ALL information about Columbus I can, no matter how extraneous it may seem. @ some point, any data may be useful to have. I am a Rounder, but understanding FET may even help in terms of the whole history behind Columbus' thought process (though he was a REer as well, until he got the pear idea).
Title: Re: Sailing a Columbian ship to the edge.
Post by: Thork on January 16, 2014, 04:51:50 PM
I'm still not convinced that Johnson said that.
Title: Re: Sailing a Columbian ship to the edge.
Post by: Yaakov ben Avraham on January 16, 2014, 05:11:44 PM
Well, I gave you all the data I had on her quote. You probably have access to the FE newsletter that she referenced in note 59 of her book of Ch. 9. I'm not sure what else you want me to suggest or do.
Title: Re: Sailing a Columbian ship to the edge.
Post by: Thork on January 16, 2014, 08:16:16 PM
Why can't you just post the quotation? Why is that so hard rather than making everyone who reads the thread dig about looking for a book somewhere?
Title: Re: Sailing a Columbian ship to the edge.
Post by: Yaakov ben Avraham on January 16, 2014, 09:38:21 PM
The problem w/ that is that the relevant quote in Garwood's book is quite lengthy, & spread out across several paragraphs. This makes quoting it hard to do, especially on my phone!
Title: Re: Sailing a Columbian ship to the edge.
Post by: BillyBob on January 17, 2014, 02:15:54 PM
Columbus knew that the world was round.  He did not try to sail off the edge, retards. 
Title: Re: Sailing a Columbian ship to the edge.
Post by: Yaakov ben Avraham on January 17, 2014, 02:35:43 PM
We know this, schmuck. Toward the end of his life, he actually thought it was pear-shaped. The question is theoretical.
Title: Re: Sailing a Columbian ship to the edge.
Post by: BillyBob on January 17, 2014, 02:40:08 PM
Columbus brought a bunch of barbarians back to the civilized land.  Schmuck. 
Title: Re: Sailing a Columbian ship to the edge.
Post by: Yaakov ben Avraham on January 17, 2014, 03:18:13 PM
If you can necessarily say that Spain was civilised, @ least, any moreso than the Tainos that Columbus captured. & anybody who calls themselves 'Billy Bob' shouldn't be speaking too loudly about civilisation of any sort. Why don't you go get that thar engine out the tub, take a bath, & then go shoot you some 'possum for supper, & take that critter on back to the trailer park for the wife & kids?
Title: Re: Sailing a Columbian ship to the edge.
Post by: Blanko on January 17, 2014, 03:19:17 PM
Let's try to keep it civil, alright?
Title: Re: Sailing a Columbian ship to the edge.
Post by: Yaakov ben Avraham on January 17, 2014, 03:24:55 PM
BLANKO, fair enough. Besides, if I continue, someone will accuse me of being this one's alt! & I weary of the conversation anyhow, so I shall ignore him now I've said my piece.
Title: Re: Sailing a Columbian ship to the edge.
Post by: BillyBob on January 17, 2014, 06:34:48 PM
Why did Columbus not fall off the edge of the earth?  Because it is round, that is why. 
Title: Re: Sailing a Columbian ship to the edge.
Post by: Tintagel on January 17, 2014, 07:26:51 PM
Why did Columbus not fall off the edge of the earth?  Because it is round, that is why. 

If you can't be bothered to do even the most basic research on the major flat earth models (in none of which, by the way, is "falling off the edge" possible by a trans-oceanic voyage), then there is really no point in engaging you in debate.  Your premise is fallacious.
Title: Re: Sailing a Columbian ship to the edge.
Post by: BillyBob on January 18, 2014, 08:56:18 AM
Why did Columbus not fall off the edge of the earth?  Because it is round, that is why. 

If you can't be bothered to do even the most basic research on the major flat earth models (in none of which, by the way, is "falling off the edge" possible by a trans-oceanic voyage), then there is really no point in engaging you in debate.  Your premise is fallacious.

What about Thork's bi-polar map?  What keeps me from falling off the edge on that map? 
Title: Re: Sailing a Columbian ship to the edge.
Post by: Tintagel on January 18, 2014, 12:31:51 PM
Why did Columbus not fall off the edge of the earth?  Because it is round, that is why. 

If you can't be bothered to do even the most basic research on the major flat earth models (in none of which, by the way, is "falling off the edge" possible by a trans-oceanic voyage), then there is really no point in engaging you in debate.  Your premise is fallacious.

What about Thork's bi-polar map?  What keeps me from falling off the edge on that map?

Well first that's not Thork's map, it's just an alternative model.  Second, if you look, you see that the lines of longitude loop around from both poles, circling back onto the disc.  Anyone following a compass would follow those lines and therefore not reach the edge.

That said, I'm not a supporter of that map because it presents too many problems.  The monopole disc model is much more succinct.
Title: Re: Sailing a Columbian ship to the edge.
Post by: BillyBob on January 18, 2014, 03:11:35 PM
I don't want to derail this topic.  However, Tintagel, I think you mean the lines of latitude. 
Title: Re: Sailing a Columbian ship to the edge.
Post by: Yaakov ben Avraham on January 18, 2014, 06:45:22 PM
Billy, if I was a bit nasty, I apologise. I'm a little sensitive @ the moment because of accusations that I am a troll or an alt, neither of which are true. Do pardon me.
Title: Re: Sailing a Columbian ship to the edge.
Post by: Tintagel on January 18, 2014, 09:43:21 PM
I don't want to derail this topic.  However, Tintagel, I think you mean the lines of latitude.

Ah, you're right.  My mistake.  The point stands, however.
Title: Re: Sailing a Columbian ship to the edge.
Post by: dave on May 25, 2015, 05:19:35 AM
the perimeter ice wall is 150 ft. high...there is no way out.