Ghost of V

Need some answers?
« on: February 21, 2015, 12:04:50 AM »
I am a FE'er, as you all know, but sometimes I am presented wth questions that I do not know the answer to.

I would like this thread to address some of those questions. Basically, if you are presented with a question that is difficult to answer... post it here and you can get some help formulating an appropriate response. This is mostly geared toward FE'ers trying to expand their knowledge. I do not want this thread to turn into RE'ers posting asinine questions over and over again. If this thread needs to be moved to avoid that, then go ahead and move it.

My first question:

How does the Sun rise/set over the opposite horizon?

Someone on the .org site asked this questions

"This is something I did while vacationing in california for my honeymoon. My wife and I sat on the beach and watched the sun set over Monterey bay from the beach in front of our hotel, the Seascape something or rather in Aptos, CA. Afterwards, we went to our hotel room to get changed for a wonderful dinner in Santa Cruz. As we looked out our window, we got to see the sun set again! It was quite wonderful. Now, I won't pretend to be a scholarly person, but wouldn't that very interaction make the case for a spherical earth?"

Is he lying? Or do we have an explanation for this phenomenon? I do not believe it is addressed in the wiki. Here is another example of the "Sun setting twice".
« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 12:06:58 AM by Vauxhall »

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Re: Need some answers?
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2015, 01:17:16 AM »
I am a FE'er, as you all know, but sometimes I am presented wth questions that I do not know the answer to.

I would like this thread to address some of those questions. Basically, if you are presented with a question that is difficult to answer... post it here and you can get some help formulating an appropriate response. This is mostly geared toward FE'ers trying to expand their knowledge. I do not want this thread to turn into RE'ers posting asinine questions over and over again. If this thread needs to be moved to avoid that, then go ahead and move it.

My first question:

How does the Sun rise/set over the opposite horizon?

Someone on the .org site asked this questions

"This is something I did while vacationing in california for my honeymoon. My wife and I sat on the beach and watched the sun set over Monterey bay from the beach in front of our hotel, the Seascape something or rather in Aptos, CA. Afterwards, we went to our hotel room to get changed for a wonderful dinner in Santa Cruz. As we looked out our window, we got to see the sun set again! It was quite wonderful. Now, I won't pretend to be a scholarly person, but wouldn't that very interaction make the case for a spherical earth?"

Is he lying? Or do we have an explanation for this phenomenon? I do not believe it is addressed in the wiki. Here is another example of the "Sun setting twice".
http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za27.htm

I refer a lot of noobs here. Surise and sunsets.
God is real.

Ghost of V

Re: Need some answers?
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2015, 01:25:48 AM »
I'm familiar with the theory of perception, but it doesn't answer some specifics.

This one for example:

I live at roughly 52° north (about 2660 miles south of the north pole), and at the summer solstice the sun rises at approximately 4.43am and sets in the evening at 9.33pm. That’s nearly 17 hours of daylight.

Now in FET with the sun essentially orbiting around the north pole that means that the sun is visible for 245° of its 360° but more importantly it means that the sun should rise in the north east and set in the north west.

Thork

Re: Need some answers?
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2015, 01:57:54 AM »
Yes, it will always be difficult explaining something that is both bollocks on a round earth and bollocks on a flat one.

Lets say at the beach his eye level was 6 ft. A storey in a hotel is about 12.6ft (its a standard) and we'll imagine he's 10 floors up ... its a big hotel. 130 odd ft up for his second viewing.

At 6ft up on a round earth you can see 3 miles.
At 130ft you can see 14 miles.
Calculator

Now a round earth is supposed to be about 25,000 miles in circumference.
Monterey is -33.9751785 North of the equator. So at that point the earth has a circumference of 19,000 miles. And despite the sun covering 19,000 miles of land in 24 hours it will cover 19,000/24/60 13 miles a minute. And he can only see 14-3=11 miles further.

So if he takes just 40 seconds to run up the beach, into the hotel and ascend 10 stories he may just see the last slither again, but its unlikely.

He certainly did not enjoy a sunset again.

A sunset usually takes about 20 mins at that latitude. To see his sunset again, he needs to see a further 19,000/24/3 (20 mins) = 263 miles.

Ergo he needs to climb 45,000ft or 3571 storeys in under a minute. A quick google search tells me there aren't any hotels that tall in Monterey. ::)


The moral of the story is that round earthers will often imagine a phenomenon in their head and assume that's what happens and say they did it. How many pilots do we have that have been in a mig25 up to 60,000ft?

You are under no obligation to answer these types of questions because the OP is disingenuous. They are pretending to be zetetic but they are actually just bad at being philosophic. Tell them to f-off. >:(


« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 02:41:50 AM by Dr David Thork »

Thork

Re: Need some answers?
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2015, 02:17:24 AM »
I'm familiar with the theory of perception, but it doesn't answer some specifics.

This one for example:

I live at roughly 52° north (about 2660 miles south of the north pole), and at the summer solstice the sun rises at approximately 4.43am and sets in the evening at 9.33pm. That’s nearly 17 hours of daylight.

Now in FET with the sun essentially orbiting around the north pole that means that the sun is visible for 245° of its 360° but more importantly it means that the sun should rise in the north east and set in the north west.

This one is rubbish too. The spotlight of the sun can give 24 hours of light at less than 23.5 degrees North on a flat earth because that's how big the spot light is. And so if he is 52 degrees north the sun is going to rise in the south east and set in the south west. Which it does. So tell him to f-off as well. >:(

That other site hasn't got any proper FErs on it. Its a disgrace.

Ghost of V

Re: Need some answers?
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2015, 06:03:45 PM »
Both great answers. I have presented them to the original posters and am waiting for their response.

Re: Need some answers?
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2015, 09:38:12 AM »
I've been struggling on the other Flat Earth Society forum, at first with the sheeple / shills, but then with the flat earthers (there only seems to be 5 active flat earthers there), because they could not explain to me the rare southern hemisphere intercontinental flights, that indeed seem to be taking place and according to their expected "spherical earth" schedules:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62950.0#.VPA6wGK_t3k

I am writing here, because I, too, "need some answers". Can you please tell me if the mainstream flat earth map (cf. thread on other forum) is wrong or if you think these flights, despite all the evidence (cf. all evidence posted in other forum), are fake?

Another question. The satellite imagery posted here:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62951.msg1664546#msg1664546

Is it fake or is it from other sources such as balloons?

Thork

Re: Need some answers?
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2015, 05:18:25 PM »
So flights in the southern hemisphere. I have a nice little video about that. The specific bit you want is at about 9 mins in.



And I have a nice little video about how they hoax satellite images in the video below.

At about 6 mins you get to see how the faked the Apollo pictures of earth from space.

I just wouldn't bother asking 'flat earthers' on the other site. they don't know anything about flat earth theory and they don't do any research to find out. The only stuff they know is the remnants of what they remember the flat earthers here saying before we left to make our own site. 

Re: Need some answers?
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2015, 05:32:10 PM »
Hmm, very interesting. Thanks for the information on the situation of the flat earth forums. After arguing for 2 weeks on that forum, I was hoping to not find a similar situation here, and I am glad it is different.

However, the flight from south america to australia, and viceversa, does seem to exist (cf. my posts on thread) and it makes me doubt the official flat earth map (also shown on thread):
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62950.0#.VPA6wGK_t3k

By any chance, do you have a link to a valid flat earth map or a link to the most valid flat earth available? No one is willing to give it to me. I even asked Dubay on Facebook and he didn't provide me with a link.

Rama Set

Re: Need some answers?
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2015, 05:33:00 PM »
I've been struggling on the other Flat Earth Society forum, at first with the sheeple / shills, but then with the flat earthers (there only seems to be 5 active flat earthers there), because they could not explain to me the rare southern hemisphere intercontinental flights, that indeed seem to be taking place and according to their expected "spherical earth" schedules:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62950.0#.VPA6wGK_t3k

I am writing here, because I, too, "need some answers". Can you please tell me if the mainstream flat earth map (cf. thread on other forum) is wrong or if you think these flights, despite all the evidence (cf. all evidence posted in other forum), are fake?

Another question. The satellite imagery posted here:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62951.msg1664546#msg1664546

Is it fake or is it from other sources such as balloons?

For curvature, you can only trust photos taken with a rectilinear lens, so unless there is documentation about the type of lens used, most photos can be dismissed.  There is often fish-eyeing in the multitude of weather balloon videos, and even ISS videos.

Re: Need some answers?
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2015, 05:34:55 PM »
Thanks for the information.

Thork

Re: Need some answers?
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2015, 05:43:11 PM »
I don't answer questions with links to the other site. I don't have an account there any more and am not second line support for their FErs. Just repost your question here.

As for official maps, we like any full earth 'polar azimuthal projection' - you can google image that.

I also like 'constant scale natural boundary' maps as below. Natural boundary ... constant scale. I wonder if they are giving us the true shape here with the natural boundaries being the edges. Gives us a better idea of the shape of the ice wall.


Re: Need some answers?
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2015, 05:50:10 PM »
Thanks for the map. Finally someone who shows me a map.

In the future, if my doubts persist, I will post that same thread on this forum, and will discuss the flight route (and its duration) that seems in conflict with the flat earth map (with yours, too).

Thork

Re: Need some answers?
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2015, 05:53:24 PM »
Make a new thread. One thread per question. Keeps things easier to follow. :)