1521

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: Purgatory

« on: June 08, 2015, 04:15:52 PM »

I'm not sure who gave everyone the impression that Purgatory was successful on the other site.

I recall there being at least one successful rehabilitation of an angry noob, who became a contributive regular after their tenure in Purgatory. I don't remember which user that was, though.

1522

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: Purgatory

« on: June 08, 2015, 12:39:25 PM »

The advantage of Purgatory over a permaban is that it does give the poster time to rehabilitate, in cases where bans only serve to aggravate them. If you don't want to read EJ's posts, just don't go to CN or AR, and it will be as if he were banned.

Also, I'd like to add my voice to the "no shadow bans" crowd. I think what we have now is a much better solution.

1523

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Indigenous constitutional recognition referendum in Australia

« on: June 08, 2015, 10:49:21 AM »

I pretty much agree with you, but I don't think the issue is as simple as them not seeing the difference between equality and special privileges and/or an issue of political convenience. I suspect it's more likely to do with the common confusion between equality of opportunity and equality of outcome (also referred to as "equity" or "social justice"). The term "equality", on its own, is difficult to use in discussion these days, since it means different things to different people.

I'm not necessarily opposed to helping the genuinely disadvantaged by giving them access to special opportunities, but that should be done on the basis of their being disadvantaged, through some legal definition that actually measures disadvantage rather than race (or sex, or religion, or anything else). What we're seeing in Australia at the moment is an acknowledgement that most Aborigines are severely disadvantaged, followed by the warped conclusion that we should help them on the basis that they are Aboriginal.

No. That's racist. Let's help them because they are disadvantaged.

1524

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Indigenous constitutional recognition referendum in Australia

« on: June 08, 2015, 10:22:15 AM »

That subject line is a bit of a mouthful, isn't it?

Our Government and Opposition are united in support for talks with Indigenous leaders towards a referendum to give their people constitutional recognition. Abbott's intention is that it be held on the 50th anniversary of the 1967 referendum, which allowed Aborigines to be counted as part of the population, and to be treated the same as other races as far as legislative powers are concerned.

However, a key difference between the 1967 referendum and the one currently under discussion is that, while the Constitution had racist terms removed in 1967, Parliament is now seeking to introduce new discriminatory stipulations. No specific text for the referendum has yet been put forward, but any wording that grants special rights or privileges to a particular race is racist. I find it deeply unsettling that our ruling class is either unable to see the difference between granting equality and granting special privileges, or else is willing to disregard it out of political convenience.

A couple of Senators have spoken out against the move. Both Liberal Democrats Senator David Leyonhjelm (NSW) and Liberal Senator Cory Bernardi (SA) have flagged the plan for what it is: an attempt to insert racially divisive language into our nation's supreme law. Two voices of reason in a Parliament of 226 isn't much, but with any luck, more will join them once a specific proposal is announced and there is concrete wording to critique.

Pending review of the final proposal, I intend to vote against this change, and perhaps also volunteer my time to the No campaign. We may not be able to stop our politicians from foisting their twisted reasoning onto us, but with a referendum, there is always hope to sway the general public.

1525

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Terrorism

« on: June 07, 2015, 10:36:20 PM »

I personally think the whole "terrorist" label is bullshit. It allows a government, any government, to essentially classify anyone it doesn't like, as persona non grata. I mean, who IS or is NOT a terrorist? It's a totally subjective word. I think actions speak louder than words. I am radically pro-Israel. I think every single Arab in Greater Israel (current day Israel, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, all of Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights) should be forcibly removed from the State, and those who refuse to leave should be removed at gunpoint.

Does that mean that I am going to go off half-cocked and try to do anything violent? No. On the other hand, I am sure there are plenty of persons who have ill feelings towards the State of Israel (and Jews as such) and have similar ideas. Would they go off half-cocked and try to do something stupid? No. They have more sense. As much as I may think they are idiots, that doesn't make them terrorists.

So, whatever you say is one thing. Unless you are directly threatening the stability of the State, or the lives of other persons, you should be allowed to say whatever the Hell you please. If you do anything stupid, that is when punishment should be considered. And there are degrees of punishment, at that point. What constitutes punishment? Do we punish some idiot 16 year old who goes off half-cocked to Syria after being radicalised in some loony mosque in Sydney by shooting him? Or do we try remedial work to make him a productive citizen? What about the Muslim cleric that radicalised the boy and should have known better? This man should have known better, and might indeed deserve the bullet, in my mind.

So its all a matter of degree. At least, to me, at any rate.

That's more or less the point I was trying to get across, so I think we're more in agreement than we are in disagreement. My concern with the current state of affairs (both in Australia and abroad, although the problem is particularly bad here) is that there are no degrees; we're just treating anyone who associates with terrorist organisations in any way with the same hard-line approach.

1526

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: Purgatory

« on: June 07, 2015, 09:49:15 PM »

Stop playing inicint with me Parsifal we both know you have your predjidices. But plese tell me what I need to do to get back into the uper fora! If you tell me what to do and let me back in ill do it! Plese!!!!!!!!!!

You can start by proving that you're capable of holding an adult conversation in CN, because this is your last post here. Bye.

1527

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: Purgatory

« on: June 07, 2015, 09:22:52 PM »

EJ, please tone it down in S&C. The reason you can still post here is that we'd like to keep S&C open to all forum users, even those in Purgatory, as it's important that people can have their say regarding the way the forum is run. However, if you're just going to throw around insults and unfounded accusations without contributing anything, that will change.

1528

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Totalitarian Britain

« on: June 07, 2015, 06:38:46 PM »

Oh. Got that. I misread. Sorry about that. It seems to me that the punishment for terrorism should be death or at least life imprisonment without possibility of parole. This whole question shouldn't even be an issue.

Partially agreed, with substantial reservations. I've posted a longer response here, as this is getting beyond the scope of this thread.

1529

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Terrorism

« on: June 07, 2015, 06:38:15 PM »

Starting a new thread as this discussion is getting well beyond the scope of the other one.

David Cameron seems to be competing with Tony Abbott for the title of worst Commonwealth head of government. Abbott is currently pushing to violate international laws by revoking citizenship from sole Australian nationals involved in terrorism, effectively leaving them stateless, something even his own ministers have spoken out against. I'm honestly not sure which is worse, his comments or Cameron's.

The whole Commonwealth is going down the toilet. Let's all move to America.

According to the article, it would only be used toward those who have dual citizenship with another country.

There are two separate proposals. The one against dual nationals has widespread acceptance; Abbott and Dutton are pushing to extend that to sole nationals, but are meeting resistance even within the government.

Oh. Got that. I misread. Sorry about that. It seems to me that the punishment for terrorism should be death or at least life imprisonment without possibility of parole. This whole question shouldn't even be an issue.

I don't think there should be a penalty for terrorism as such, simply because it's such a vague term that is used to refer to all kinds of different crimes. For example, Australian law does not distinguish between people fighting with and against the Islamic State overseas, or between people who fight alongside IS forces and people who simply provide medical treatment to the wounded. They're all "terrorists" as far as our government is concerned.

The second reservation I have is that we should be trying to solve the problem at the source, not waiting to apply punitive measures post facto. Obviously we have a social problem if young people in Australia feel they will be able to accomplish more by going to Syria or Iran and fighting with extremists than they can at home, and I don't think the threat of life imprisonment is going to do much to deter them. I'm not saying we shouldn't have punishments in place, only that they aren't actually going to solve the problem, and we need to be doing more.

Finally, leaving citizens stateless is both a violation of international laws and an irresponsible position for a government to take. Rather than helping to put a stop to terrorism abroad by treating the social problem at the source, the Australian government is throwing their hands up and saying "they're not our citizens anymore, someone else please deal with them". Leaving people stateless in the middle of a war zone is not going to accomplish anything except making Tony Abbott look tough.

That said, I agree there are some terrorist crimes for which life imprisonment, and perhaps even the death penalty (I'm on the fence as to whether or not I support that in principle) are appropriate. I just think the crimes with which those penalties are associated need to be more strictly defined than "terrorism".

1530

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Totalitarian Britain

« on: June 07, 2015, 06:22:45 PM »

David Cameron seems to be competing with Tony Abbott for the title of worst Commonwealth head of government. Abbott is currently pushing to violate international laws by revoking citizenship from sole Australian nationals involved in terrorism, effectively leaving them stateless, something even his own ministers have spoken out against. I'm honestly not sure which is worse, his comments or Cameron's.

The whole Commonwealth is going down the toilet. Let's all move to America.

According to the article, it would only be used toward those who have dual citizenship with another country.

There are two separate proposals. The one against dual nationals has widespread acceptance; Abbott and Dutton are pushing to extend that to sole nationals, but are meeting resistance even within the government.

1531

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Totalitarian Britain

« on: June 07, 2015, 06:14:48 PM »

David Cameron seems to be competing with Tony Abbott for the title of worst Commonwealth head of government. Abbott is currently pushing to violate international laws by revoking citizenship from sole Australian nationals involved in terrorism, effectively leaving them stateless, something even his own ministers have spoken out against. I'm honestly not sure which is worse, his comments or Cameron's.

The whole Commonwealth is going down the toilet. Let's all move to America.

1532

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: Purgatory

« on: June 07, 2015, 05:27:02 PM »

EJ was put in Purgatory knowing full well the potential consequences of his actions, and with a history of ineffective bans with no sign of improvement. I waited until after he had seen and replied to this thread to give the move my support so it wouldn't come out of nowhere from his perspective, and he continued to repost the same things we'd already moved to CN in the upper fora after that point.

It's not something we plan to dish out lightly. I sincerely hope we never have to put anyone else in Purgatory again, but it's there as a last resort for people who can't (or don't want to) be rehabilitated.

1533

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: Purgatory

« on: June 07, 2015, 04:00:19 PM »

May I ask who you have put into purgatory this time around?

http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?action=mlist;sa=search;search=Purgatory;fields=group

Sounds like an interesting thought. Given that I have not been banned in awhile (I seem to have learned how to control my temper, and to know the rule differences between here and the other site), it does sound like a halfway decent idea. Would Purgatory be permanent?

No; if they demonstrate that they can post without being a nuisance in the lower fora, they're welcome to appeal their Purgatory status at any time. We're not out to punish people, just to ensure they don't disrupt productive discussions.

1534

Arts & Entertainment / Re: The Pink Floyd discography listen-through

« on: June 07, 2015, 03:53:42 PM »

The Legend of 1900
(aka la Leggenda del Pianista sull'Oceano)
Film (directed by Giuseppe Tornatore)

Released: 28 October 1998

All tracks authored by Ennio Morricone, except where noted.

Songs included
Taken from the film soundtrack listing.

Playing Love
The Legend of the Pianist On the Ocean
The Crisis
Peacherine Rag
A Goodbye To Friends
Study For Three Hands
Tarantella In 3rd Class
Enduring Movement
Police
Trailer
Thanks Danny
A Mozart Reincarnated
Child
Magic Waltz (Amedeo Tommasi)
The Goodbye Between Nineteen Hundred and Max
Goodbye Duet
Nineteen Hundred's Madness No. 1
Danny's Blues
Second Crisis
The Crave
Nocturne With No Moon
Before the End
Playing Love
Ships and Snow
Nineteen Hundred's Madness No. 2
I Can and Then
Silent Goodbye
5 Portraits
Lost Boys Calling (Roger Waters, Morricone)

Review

Either I'm being very inattentive, or the Roger Waters song on the soundtrack isn't actually included in the film. I did manage to find it on YouTube, and it's pretty uninspired, even for Roger. As such, this review is going to have absolutely nothing to do with Pink Floyd.

Despite narrowly avoiding wanky art film territory at times, Tornatore has created a gripping tragedy filled with biting symbolism. Admittedly, a large part of my enjoyment of this film is the romanticism of 19th-century behemoth ocean steamers, one of which is as much the star of the film as Novecento, as he is called in the film's Italian credits. Born, raised and died on a ship, his life is intertwined with the ship's own fortunes through the first half of the 20th century.

I won't even attempt to go into all the details of the plot here, but this film is at once a document of 20th-century society and a critic of it. Through the eyes of a character who never once set foot on land during his 45-odd years, we gain a unique perspective on some of the more ludicrous aspects of the lives of "land people", as he calls them. Conversely, through his conversations with passengers in the late 1920s when most of the film is set, we learn that he is deaf to "the voice of the ocean", as one passenger puts it. He longs to see the ocean from the land, but is unable to overcome his own unwillingness to venture off the ship, which is the real tragedy of the story.

I will most definitely be watching this again at some point, as the density of imagery was a bit much to take in all in one sitting. Even so, I can give this the highest of recommendations. It's not Pink Floyd, but it's good.

1535

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: Purgatory

« on: June 06, 2015, 03:38:33 PM »

¿Por qué no los dos? You can create two groups and add people to them as appropriate. If they can remain civil in S&C, there's no problem here. If they can't, welp. I think being allowed to post in S&C should be the default state, and further restrictions should only be imposed if justified.

Fair point. For the time being, I've added S&C to the Purgatory postable fora. If we actually need to restrict it further, we can add another group for that later.

In the long term, I would recommend that the use of this group be explicitly mentioned in the rules. Currently, most rules are quite clear about how bans and warnings would be handed up. I don't think we need to go as far as to strictly codify the Purgatory (although that is also an option that could be considered), but I do think it's important that the existence of this solution is at least mentioned.

I agree.

1536

Suggestions & Concerns / Purgatory

« on: June 06, 2015, 03:30:38 PM »

A technique that was trialled fairly successfully on the other site is the idea of "Purgatory". That is, a special group for chronic rule-breakers where bans have proven to be ineffective, which allows them to post only in CN and AR, but still browse the other fora. I've just created such a group, and we intend to begin using it effective immediately to deal with repeat offenders.

One thing I'm undecided on is whether members in Purgatory should be able to post in S&C. On the one hand, this enables them to continue to have a voice in how the forum is run. On the other, it also allows them to cause trouble in at least one upper forum. Thoughts?

1537

Arts & Entertainment / Re: The Pink Floyd discography listen-through

« on: June 06, 2015, 07:42:19 AM »

Richard Wright
Broken China
Studio album


Recorded: 1996
Released: 26 November 1996

Band

Richard Wright (keyboards, programming)
Anthony Moore (programming)
Tim Renwick (guitar)
Dominic Miller (guitar)
Steven Bolton (guitar)
Pino Palladino (bass)
Manu Katché (drums)

Sian Bell (cello)
Kate St. John (oboe, cor anglais)
Maz Palladino (backing vocals)

Sinead O'Connor (lead vocals on "Reaching for the Rail" and "Breakthrough")

All tracks authored by Richard Wright, except where noted.

Side A

1. Breaking Water (Wright, Anthony Moore) (2:28)
2. Night of a Thousand Furry Toys (Wright, Moore) (4:22)
3. Hidden Fear (Wright, Gerry Gordon) (3:28)
4. Runaway (Moore) (4:00)

Side B

1. Unfair Ground (2:21)
2. Satellite (4:06)
3. Woman of Custom (Moore) (3:44)
4. Interlude (1:16)

Side C

1. Black Cloud (3:19)
2. Far From the Harbour Wall (Wright, Moore) (6:19)
3. Drowning (1:38)
4. Reaching for the Rail (Wright, Moore) (6:30)

Side D

1. Blue Room in Venice (Wright, Gordon) (2:47)
2. Sweet July (4:13)
3. Along the Shoreline (Wright, Moore) (4:36)
4. Breakthrough (Wright, Moore) (4:19)

Review

Broken China is a concept album about Rick's then-wife Mildred's depression. It has a much clearer focus and a much darker atmosphere than either Wet Dream or Identity, and is perhaps the best representation of Rick's solo capabilities. Ambience and mood are the focal points here, not melody, and the tracks that do have lyrics seem to use them to enhance the mood rather than as a driving force in themselves.

Even on the CD release, the album is clearly divided into four parts corresponding to the sides on the LP, which is why I've divided the track listing that way. The first part is certainly the darkest, the ambient instrumental bookends being given some more explicit direction from the lyrical material in the midsection. Night of a Thousand Furry Toys is one of the few tracks on the album which approaches conventional pop song structure, while Rick recites Hidden Fear's lyrics more like poetry than music. The delicate balance between ambience, rhythm, melody and lyrics leaves me wanting for nothing more, and is representative of the album as a whole.

Side B is mostly instrumental, save for Woman of Custom, and it speaks volumes for Rick's musicianship that the instrumental tracks say far more than Anthony Moore's lyrics. Unfair Ground and Satellite in particular make a fantastic pair, building up tension after the gloomy conclusion to side A. The short track Interlude finishes the album on a final note of suspense; a marked contrast from the sense of hopelessness imparted by Runaway at the end of Side A.

The recovery begins in Side C, illustrated with the crude but effective imagery of a person drowning. The tracks' titles are sufficient to give a sense of progress, as the protagonist starts out "Far From the Harbour Wall" and ends up "Reaching for the Rail". I enjoyed this part less than the others, primarily due to its increased lyrical focus, which has never been Rick's strong point, even when it's someone else writing the lyrics for him. Reaching for the Rail, sung by both Rick and Sinead O'Connor, ends with a derisive reference to attempts at medication; in this case, the ominous instrumentation reveals the true intent of the words.

The final part brings us to a resolution, starting with a focus on human interaction; a stark contrast from the isolation and medication referred to previously. Sweet July is a particularly masterful instrumental, somehow managing to convey the paradox of simultaneous hope and despair that accompanies depression at times. This leads us into Along the Shoreline, which all but concludes the narrative, reusing the drowning imagery from Side C to finalise the journey to recovery.

The album's final track, "Breakthrough", serves as both an epilogue and an anthem of sorts for depression. As someone who suffers from depression myself, the lyrics to this four-minute song present (at least from my experience) a very direct and profound summary of the difficulties involved, many of which have been explored instrumentally in other parts of the album. Last time I listened to this was many years ago, and this speaks to me now a lot more than it did back then.

This album is both a fantastic musical work and a document of some of the challenges involved in battling depression. If you're into ambient music, you'll probably enjoy this either way, but if you suffer from or have suffered from depression, you're likely to get a whole lot more out of it. I didn't appreciate this album for what it was until I came back to it now, with the experiences of the past few years as context. This is a must-listen.

1538

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: NSFW material

« on: June 05, 2015, 09:35:51 AM »

To clarify, this thread was locked because Particle Person reposted the image here in S&C. PP, please don't do that.

However, I would like to reopen the discussion because I think PP raises a good point. I didn't see anything wrong with the image mister bickles posted (beyond being off-topic in PR&S, which is why I split it to AR). For anyone who didn't see it, it included a cartoon depiction of a woman not wearing a shirt, in which nipples were visible (which appears to be the point of contention).

Now, it might just be that my workplace takes a somewhat lax attitude to these things, but I wouldn't have considered that to be NSFW. I do think we need to revise this rule, and while my preference would be to relax the stipulation so that some amount of tasteful nudity is permitted (at least in CN and AR), I'm open to alternative suggestions if most people would rather not see such things here. One option would be to have a flag that can be set on a per-thread basis which indicates that it may contain NSFW material, and that anyone who does not want to view it should stay away.

So, what level of nudity do people want to accept, and how can we better word this rule?

1539

Arts & Entertainment / Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion

« on: June 05, 2015, 08:16:47 AM »

I just came across this open-source implementation of Morrowind:

https://openmw.org/en/

It still requires the original game data files, but it should allow me to play Morrowind without the use of Wine. I'll give it a spin at some point over the weekend and report back with my experience.

1540

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: Proposal: A public moderation log

« on: June 04, 2015, 11:40:32 AM »

I support this idea in principle, though I'd like to see an implementation before giving it my unreserved support. As well as the concerns Blanko raised, I think moderation in secret forums (such as the staff forum) should be omitted from the public log. This isn't an attempt to avoid transparency; we almost never have private discussions in the staff forum, and anything in there is usually private for a good reason.

pizaaplanet, I think we've seen sufficient support for this idea that you might as well go ahead and write the code. I'm curious to see what you come up with.