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Offline beardo

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #1020 on: August 11, 2014, 03:41:13 PM »
I bet there's a billion planets that are more or less just like Earth. Original my ass.
>earth
>a planet

Yes?
But bro! Earth is a flat!
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Offline Blanko

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #1021 on: August 11, 2014, 03:46:54 PM »
I bet there's a billion planets that are more or less just like Earth. Original my ass.
>earth
>a planet

Yes?
But bro! Earth is a flat!

So?

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Offline beardo

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #1022 on: August 11, 2014, 04:45:16 PM »
And therefore not a planet!!!!11
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Ghost of V

Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #1023 on: August 11, 2014, 05:00:45 PM »
Also, I prefer Skyrim's classless levelling system.

You do?  Even I thought that was taking the dumbing-down too far.

At first, I thought so too. What benefit do classes really provide, though?

Player creativity, for one.

It makes me feel like I'm closer to the character when I have to plan his build, weapons, powers, stats, etc. That's just me though. There's some planning at the beginning of Skyrim, but it eventually turns into an exploitable "I'm awesome with everything" system that got boring really quickly.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2014, 05:02:50 PM by Vauxhall »

Offline Blanko

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #1024 on: August 11, 2014, 05:01:54 PM »
And therefore not a planet!!!!11

Why not?

Saddam Hussein

Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #1025 on: August 11, 2014, 05:05:10 PM »
Keep upper-forum discussion in the upper forums, thank you.  Anyway, it's not so much the missing classes that I didn't like, but the missing attributes.  It's like everyone is the same now.  No one is stronger, faster, or smarter than anyone else.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 10:49:00 PM by Saddam Hussein »

Ghost of V

Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #1026 on: August 11, 2014, 05:06:44 PM »
Keep upper forums discussion in the upper forums, thank you.  Anyway, it's not so much the missing classes that I didn't like, but the missing attributes.  It's like everyone is the same now.  No one is stronger, faster, or smarter than anyone else.

I agree with this as well.

Three stats on level up really dumbs the game down a good bit.

I also enjoy jumping out of orbit, which is impossible in Skyrim. T_T
« Last Edit: August 11, 2014, 05:08:36 PM by Vauxhall »

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Offline Foxbox

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #1027 on: August 11, 2014, 05:07:40 PM »
I bet there's a billion planets that are more or less just like Earth. Original my ass.

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Offline Particle Person

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #1028 on: August 11, 2014, 05:20:43 PM »
Also, I prefer Skyrim's classless levelling system.

You do?  Even I thought that was taking the dumbing-down too far.

At first, I thought so too. What benefit do classes really provide, though?

Player creativity, for one.

It makes me feel like I'm closer to the character when I have to plan his build, weapons, powers, stats, etc. That's just me though. There's some planning at the beginning of Skyrim, but it eventually turns into an exploitable "I'm awesome with everything" system that got boring really quickly.

You can still plan your character with just as much control, you just don't have to lock yourself into an immutable plan right at the beginning. The classless system allows for more organic and believable character growth. Tamriel is not a vocational society where everybody is born into their skillset and profession. Just like on our own flat earth, people develop all sorts of odd combinations of skills over time (I definitely wish they would stop lopping off skills with each new game). For example, one of my characters is an Imperial who was a hunter during his early levels. After a profound religious experience, he dedicated his life to the service of Talos and began training as a knight. That wasn't something I had planned during character creation, so if I wanted to do the same thing in one of the previous games I would have to use the console.

As for becoming an overpowered jack-of-all-trades: that has always been possible. A class system like Morrowind's just makes it time consuming. It's also time consuming in Skyrim. I do miss attributes, though.
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.

Offline Blanko

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #1029 on: August 11, 2014, 05:27:42 PM »
What? Re-dedicating your build is the exact same thing in Morrowind, the only real difference is that in Skyrim you're a jack-of-all-trades from the get go so it doesn't matter what you do. Given that skills in Morrowind are tied into attributes, you're naturally gaining some expertise in skills you're not focusing on simply by raising the attributes they're governed by. And you can always visit a trainer to get a particular skill you want up to a level you want it to be at.

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Offline Particle Person

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #1030 on: August 11, 2014, 05:33:05 PM »
What? Re-dedicating your build is the exact same thing in Morrowind, the only real difference is that in Skyrim you're a jack-of-all-trades from the get go so it doesn't matter what you do.

No, it is not the exact same thing. If you want to change anything about your class in Morrowind, you have to use enableclassmenu which can be very glitchy. You are not a jack-of-all-trades from the get go in Skyrim. You're bad at everything that you don't have a racial affinity for.
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.

Ghost of V

Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #1031 on: August 11, 2014, 05:35:24 PM »
You can still plan your character with just as much control, you just don't have to lock yourself into an immutable plan right at the beginning. The classless system allows for more organic and believable character growth. Tamriel is not a vocational society where everybody is born into their skillset and profession. Just like on our own flat earth, people develop all sorts of odd combinations of skills over time (I definitely wish they would stop lopping off skills with each new game). For example, one of my characters is an Imperial who was a hunter during his early levels. After a profound religious experience, he dedicated his life to the service of Talos and began training as a knight. That wasn't something I had planned during character creation, so if I wanted to do the same thing in one of the previous games I would have to use the console.

As for becoming an overpowered jack-of-all-trades: that has always been possible. A class system like Morrowind's just makes it time consuming. It's also time consuming in Skyrim. I do miss attributes, though.


No I can't. I can plan my character roughly with very limited control in Skyrim. I can choose a skill tree, focus on that, or I can put multiple points into multiple trees and become an underpowered shit character. All the while, I can choose one of three stats to improve upon level up. Wow, such customization.

I totally feel like I'm making my own unique character by choosing predetermined paths on a tree.

I didn't realize I was playing Diablo 2. Thank god Diablo 2 makes you think about what you put your points into, whereas Skyrim just gets easier and easier no matter what. And I'm still not a Spellsword! I PLAY ES TO BE A SPELLSWORD NOT A TREE-LOVER.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2014, 05:37:42 PM by Vauxhall »

Offline Blanko

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #1032 on: August 11, 2014, 05:39:11 PM »
No, it is not the exact same thing. If you want to change anything about your class in Morrowind, you have to use enableclassmenu which can be very glitchy.

You know that raising miscellaneous skills is an option, right?

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You are not a jack-of-all-trades from the get go in Skyrim. You're bad at everything that you don't have a racial affinity for.

If by "bad at everything" you mean "everything is viable", then yes.

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Offline Particle Person

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #1033 on: August 11, 2014, 05:43:44 PM »
I totally feel like I'm making my own unique character by choosing predetermined paths on a tree.

As opposed to just levelling a pre-determined list of skills to 100? That's just a stick. At least trees have multiple branches. As I said, I do miss attributes, but the perk system does allow for a great deal of customization. There are 251 perks in the game. Without using the "Legendary" skill reset, there's a soft level cap at around 80. While it isn't technically impossible to earn every perk in the game, it would never happen in the normal course of gameplay.

No, it is not the exact same thing. If you want to change anything about your class in Morrowind, you have to use enableclassmenu which can be very glitchy.

You know that raising miscellaneous skills is an option, right?

Miscellaneous skills do not level as quickly as major and minor skills. My skill progression would be stunted arbitrarily. You'll also never level up if you only increase miscellaneous skills. I would only be able to progress if I kept levelling my hunter skills, which wouldn't make sense. I would also be forever stuck with the label of my former class, and labels aren't PC.

If by "bad at everything" you mean "everything is viable", then yes.

Yeah, everything is potentially viable. You're still bad at almost everything in the beginning.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2014, 05:47:06 PM by Alexandyr »
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.

Saddam Hussein

Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #1034 on: August 11, 2014, 05:53:01 PM »
You know which game has the best skill system?  TESO.  Provisioning, clothing, and woodworking for all!

Ghost of V

Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #1035 on: August 11, 2014, 05:55:00 PM »
If by "bad at everything" you mean "everything is viable", then yes.

Yeah, everything is potentially viable. You're still bad at almost everything in the beginning.

That's called being a Jack-of-all-trades. Even if you're technically bad at those things according to the game, you can still use all of them to varying degrees of success early on in the game. Swording is just as viable as fireballing.

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Offline beardo

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #1036 on: August 11, 2014, 05:56:58 PM »
I think you mean flameing.
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Offline Blanko

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #1037 on: August 11, 2014, 06:00:10 PM »
If you were actually bad at everything, you couldn't get out of Helgen alive. Being bad doesn't bring success, yet Skyrim is in the awkward position where you're either successful at anything you want or you're not getting anywhere.

It's not like the game is designed around "oh, I need to utilize this skill in this scenario", it's designed around letting you use whatever you want and having it be effective.

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Offline Particle Person

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #1038 on: August 11, 2014, 06:02:25 PM »
If by "bad at everything" you mean "everything is viable", then yes.

Yeah, everything is potentially viable. You're still bad at almost everything in the beginning.

That's called being a Jack-of-all-trades. Even if you're technically bad at those things according to the game, you can still use all of them to varying degrees of success early on in the game. Swording is just as viable as fireballing.

Every ES game has allowed you to use every skill with varying degrees of success early in the game.

If you were actually bad at everything, you couldn't get out of Helgen alive.

Yes you can. You're accompanied by at least one powerful NPC for that entire sequence. I've escaped without even picking up a weapon or using magic.

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Being bad doesn't bring success, yet Skyrim is in the awkward position where you're either successful at anything you want or you're not getting anywhere.
It's not like the game is designed around "oh, I need to utilize this skill in this scenario", it's designed around letting you use whatever you want and having it be effective.

Correct.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2014, 06:06:52 PM by Alexandyr »
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.

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Offline beardo

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #1039 on: August 11, 2014, 06:16:33 PM »
Quote
it's designed around letting you use whatever you want and having it be effective.
Why would that be a bad thing?
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