[inquisitive]

Defying Gravity is all CGI

That rhymes.


Satellites don't defy gravity and hover over the earth motionless, it's all an illusion and people buy it. TV signals can be delivered off towers or bounced off the dome.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I'll add to this post. Forget satellites, they are dreams. When you go buy expensive GPS systems for say construction one thing is always prevalent and that is this REMOTE station that runs on POWER at your job site or in the remote woods MUST be able to talk to the BASE station to get accurate positions. The satellite links is ridiculous, earth moving, 4 satellites moving and some chipset is going to give you a very accurate position from moving parts...hah dreams of my father

No it's called remote antenna position, home base and repeaters or towers. Done and done simple, no defying density

And navigation in the middle of an ocean?

And tv dish angles prove satellites.

https://www.e-education.psu.edu/geog160/node/1926

Dude you're so gullible. Read the provided link. Surveyors used "Fixed" positions and now wait for it...........

The "STARS"

Dem things GOD put up there to GPS ones self. Go Figure.

OMG Dish Network is looking at a moving satellite to give me grainy reception....duh

GPS receiver in my phone is showing 17 satellites, where are they?   A TV satellite is stationary relative to earth.  As you know.

[J-Man]

Defying Gravity is all CGI

That rhymes.


Satellites don't defy gravity and hover over the earth motionless, it's all an illusion and people buy it. TV signals can be delivered off towers or bounced off the dome.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I'll add to this post. Forget satellites, they are dreams. When you go buy expensive GPS systems for say construction one thing is always prevalent and that is this REMOTE station that runs on POWER at your job site or in the remote woods MUST be able to talk to the BASE station to get accurate positions. The satellite links is ridiculous, earth moving, 4 satellites moving and some chipset is going to give you a very accurate position from moving parts...hah dreams of my father

No it's called remote antenna position, home base and repeaters or towers. Done and done simple, no defying density

And navigation in the middle of an ocean?

And tv dish angles prove satellites.

https://www.e-education.psu.edu/geog160/node/1926

Dude you're so gullible. Read the provided link. Surveyors used "Fixed" positions and now wait for it...........

The "STARS"

Dem things GOD put up there to GPS ones self. Go Figure.

OMG Dish Network is looking at a moving satellite to give me grainy reception....duh

GPS receiver in my phone is showing 17 satellites, where are they?   A TV satellite is stationary relative to earth.  As you know.

Actually I don't know..Is someone at NASA or the ISS astronuts holding the satellite via a string?

[mtnman]

https://www.e-education.psu.edu/geog160/node/1926

Dude you're so gullible. Read the provided link. Surveyors used "Fixed" positions and now wait for it...........

The "STARS"

J-Man, did you read that page or just look for a couple of words that made you feel better about your FE belief? This seems to be a common theme that I've seen. I found something that kind of says something like I believe, or some other shallow relationship as best. But as long as you can point to, well, something, then yeah me, I won the argument.

Since you are entering the article as evidence, I assume you accept as truth.

If you read the article, it describes the techniques of surveying as it existed pre GPS, and says that they are still in use. Still in use, doesn't mean it is exclusively used, and that GPS doesn't exist. Automatic transmissions have largely replaced standard transmissions. But if you find a car with a stick shift, it doesn't mean that automatic transmissions don't exist.

Anyway, since we are accepting the article as evidence, I'll quote some excerpts from the page, with some commentary.

The techniques and tools of conventional surveying are still in use and, as you will see, are based on the very same concepts that underpin even the most advanced satellite-based positioning.

Clearly saying that satellite based GPS exists.

Geographic positions are specified relative to a fixed reference. Positions on the globe, for instance, may be specified in terms of angles relative to the center of the Earth, the equator, and the prime meridian.

Nice globe reference.

Nowadays, geodesists produce extremely precise positional data by analyzing radio waves emitted by distant stars.

Pretty sure those radio waves aren't all coming from lights on a dome over the Earth.

Before survey-grade satellite positioning was available, the most common technique for conducting control surveys was triangulation

Having read this chapter so far, you have already been introduced to a practical application of trilateration, since it is the technique behind satellite ranging used in GPS.

You have seen an example of trilateration in Figure 5.8 in the form of 3-dimensional spheres extending from orbiting satellites. Demo 1 below steps through this process in two dimensions.

Two more references to ranging from satellites.

The reference to "Figure 5.8" is to another web page in that series of articles that describes GPS. It shows some details of the satellite orbits around the globe and describes how signals from multiple satellites are used to identify your position on the (round) globe. Have a look for yourself. https://www.e-education.psu.edu/geog160/node/1923

[mtnman]

There are over 1,800 weather balloons released EVERY SINGLE DAY....Now add just as many secret ones daily, you ever seen one?

 NOPE

4,000 everyday and you've never seen one.

I don't think anyone denies that balloons are launched. Where is your proof that they are the source of GPS? There isn't any.

This is the logic you are using: GPS works. I don't believe in satellites, but GPS works. So there must be something else up there. Balloons are up there, GPS works. Therefore, GPS uses balloons. Now I've answered something, time to move on and not think about it too long.

It's ridiculous on so many levels.
1: The triangulation (actually trilateration) used requires the source of the signal to be in a known position. Not a fixed position, but a known one. This works for satellites. Not for balloons that are subject to moving with the wind.

2: If balloons were the source, the math wouldn't match satellite orbits. So Garmin, Magellan, Apple, Google, and everyone in the world writing software for GPS receivers would have to be part of your alleged global conspiracy.

3: GPS was created by and for the U.S. military. It is used to fix exact locations for ships, planes, bombs, tanks, missiles, etc. Do you think that system would be dependent on balloon launches? Sure, if we every had to go to war with the Soviet Union, the first step would have been to send a bunch of guys over there to launch balloons first. Right.

[3DGeek]

There are over 1,800 weather balloons released EVERY SINGLE DAY....Now add just as many secret ones daily, you ever seen one?

 NOPE

4,000 everyday and you've never seen one.

I don't think anyone denies that balloons are launched. Where is your proof that they are the source of GPS? There isn't any.

This is the logic you are using: GPS works. I don't believe in satellites, but GPS works. So there must be something else up there. Balloons are up there, GPS works. Therefore, GPS uses balloons. Now I've answered something, time to move on and not think about it too long.

It's ridiculous on so many levels.
1: The triangulation (actually trilateration) used requires the source of the signal to be in a known position. Not a fixed position, but a known one. This works for satellites. Not for balloons that are subject to moving with the wind.

2: If balloons were the source, the math wouldn't match satellite orbits. So Garmin, Magellan, Apple, Google, and everyone in the world writing software for GPS receivers would have to be part of your alleged global conspiracy.

3: GPS was created by and for the U.S. military. It is used to fix exact locations for ships, planes, bombs, tanks, missiles, etc. Do you think that system would be dependent on balloon launches? Sure, if we every had to go to war with the Soviet Union, the first step would have been to send a bunch of guys over there to launch balloons first. Right.

Balloons can't explain GPS unless the software for GPS receivers is written by people inside the conspiracy.

Take a look at this (to pick just one of a bunch of similar projects):

      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/swiftnav/piksi-the-rtk-gps-receiver

This is a project to provide GPS tracking for hobbyist drone pilots.   Notice that it says that the software is "OpenSourced" - meaning that you, me, or anyone else can download it from https://github.com/swift-nav/piksi_firmware - you can read the software, change it and use it.

  "From the start, we wanted Piksi to be an indispensable tool for GPS experimentation. Whether you want to test out a new algorithm, receive signals from new constellations, more closely integrate and tune your receiver for your application, or teach yourself about GPS, Piksi gives you the flexibility, power, and transparency to do it."

There is absolutely NO way for a conspiracy to hide the way GPS works.

So it simply CANNOT BE that the GPS system is implemented with balloons or fixed stations (I believe that's what Tom claims - saying it's like LORAN, which is the predecessor to GPS that did indeed use fixed stations).

A conspiracy can only extend so far - and in this case, it simply CANNOT hide a system that uses anything other than satellites without making it obvious to anyone who has the interest to check it out.

[pszemoI]

You CAN, however demonstrate that it would take an infinite amount of energy to make it work - and that it doesn't explain variable gravity or the tides.

Nor it does not explain "Cavendish experiment".

Does it mean that Universal Acceleration does not fit the observation? And, what is more troubling, goes against logic requiring infinite energy to constantly accelerate massive objects?

[juner]

You CAN, however demonstrate that it would take an infinite amount of energy to make it work - and that it doesn't explain variable gravity or the tides.

Nor it does not explain "Cavendish experiment".

Does it mean that Universal Acceleration does not fit the observation? And, what is more troubling, goes against logic requiring infinite energy to constantly accelerate massive objects?

Please refrain from derailing the topic further. Acceleration has nothing to do with the OP.

[Ohitstarik]

infinity/limits has never been my thing, really is interesting that it works that way. have never looked into special relativity, shits amazing

Anyways the cell tower thing doesnt strike me since ships still have navigation and gps coordinates. Still amazes me that the military just lets us use GPS for free. Weather balloons could make sense but they don't chill up there forever. helium leaks over time from what I know, but with higher quality balloons maybe it wouldnt? not sure. Thanks to all the explanations about the gravity thing!

There are over 1,800 weather balloons released EVERY SINGLE DAY....Now add just as many secret ones daily, you ever seen one?

 NOPE

4,000 everyday and you've never seen one.

GPS uses satellites. known and understood.  See documentation.

What about gravity? Satellites would fall back to earth like everything else does then stick to the surface like water and peoples. See documentation and facts.

I'd be happy to explain how orbits work!

Orbits work quite well by, you know, going around the earth. The misconception that sattelites do not experience gravity is false.

Sattelites have forward velocity. this is always tangential to their current orbit position. The only thing keeping them in a curve is gravity itself pulling satellites back in to the center of the earth. Imagine tying a ball to a string, and spinning that ball by the string around in a lasso like motion. the ball is orbiting around right? Now if you cut the string, the ball is going to fly out in a forward direction from where it was cut. This is the forward velocity of our sattelites, and the string is the gravity pulling the ball back into earth. Putting sattelites and other things into orbit on a consistent schedule by nasa, spacex, orbital sciences etc is an amazing feat of modern human advancement that is sadly outright denied here.

Also: when launching into space, the arc you see is to give enough forward velocity to sattelites so they can go forward fast enough to not crash into earth. It's not "nasa crashing into the sea to hide the fact that the earth is flat". This is just disrespectful to the men and women who have spent countless hours to get humanity to this level. 

Heres a simple video:



That being said, now we know how Round earth believes that GPS works (and how they made it work). Is there any theories that make sense from the FE side on how GPS works?

Balloons would be knocked around with wind which is unpredictable and changes our previous idea of where the balloon is, and this destroy the accuracy of GPS', so that theory doesnt really add up. Cell towers dont work because GPS still works at sea. Even if we were to say that ships use stars for navigation, it doesnt explain apple iphones having gps connection at sea.

[3DGeek]

Take a look at this (to pick just one of a bunch of similar projects):

      https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/swiftnav/piksi-the-rtk-gps-receiver

This is a project to provide GPS tracking for hobbyist drone pilots.   Notice that it says that the software is "OpenSourced" - meaning that you, me, or anyone else can download it from https://github.com/swift-nav/piksi_firmware - you can read the software, change it and use it.

I downloaded the Piksi software last night.  No doubt whatever that it's tracking satellites.

What's interesting is that it even gives you the capability to use DIFFERENT satellites!

We all talk about GPS - but we forget that the European space agency has been launching a bunch of satellites called "GALILEO".  When all 30 of them are whizzing around up there, it'll be more reliable and higher precision than GPS - but it already works at least as well as GPS.

China has a similar system called "Beidou" - they didn't want to risk the Americans turning off GPS (or deliberately screwing it up) in times of war.  Beidou has enough satellites in orbit already and will begin testing later this year.

The Russians have yet another one - called "GLONASS" - it has more satellites than GPS, so it produces better readings among tall buildings...it can even use the same chips as GPS, so you could use the Piksi system with it instead of GPS.

So (again) it's not enough for NASA to have faked this - at least three other spacefaring groups have done so.

For those who don't believe in satellites - BAE systems have come up with yet another system called "NAVSOP" which uses "Signals of Opportunity" (SOP) to do navigation.   It uses cell phone towers, known TV and radio stations, WiFi systems - and a bunch of other radio sources.   It doesn't require satellites and it should be more accurate than GPS/GLONASS/Baidu/GALILEO in built up areas like cities.   Sadly, it's a total bust over oceans and lightly inhabited areas.

[J-Man]

infinity/limits has never been my thing, really is interesting that it works that way. have never looked into special relativity, shits amazing

Anyways the cell tower thing doesnt strike me since ships still have navigation and gps coordinates. Still amazes me that the military just lets us use GPS for free. Weather balloons could make sense but they don't chill up there forever. helium leaks over time from what I know, but with higher quality balloons maybe it wouldnt? not sure. Thanks to all the explanations about the gravity thing!

There are over 1,800 weather balloons released EVERY SINGLE DAY....Now add just as many secret ones daily, you ever seen one?

 NOPE

4,000 everyday and you've never seen one.

GPS uses satellites. known and understood.  See documentation.

What about gravity? Satellites would fall back to earth like everything else does then stick to the surface like water and peoples. See documentation and facts.

I'd be happy to explain how orbits work!

Orbits work quite well by, you know, going around the earth. The misconception that sattelites do not experience gravity is false.

Sattelites have forward velocity. this is always tangential to their current orbit position. The only thing keeping them in a curve is gravity itself pulling satellites back in to the center of the earth. Imagine tying a ball to a string, and spinning that ball by the string around in a lasso like motion. the ball is orbiting around right? Now if you cut the string, the ball is going to fly out in a forward direction from where it was cut. This is the forward velocity of our sattelites, and the string is the gravity pulling the ball back into earth. Putting sattelites and other things into orbit on a consistent schedule by nasa, spacex, orbital sciences etc is an amazing feat of modern human advancement that is sadly outright denied here.

Also: when launching into space, the arc you see is to give enough forward velocity to sattelites so they can go forward fast enough to not crash into earth. It's not "nasa crashing into the sea to hide the fact that the earth is flat". This is just disrespectful to the men and women who have spent countless hours to get humanity to this level. 

Heres a simple video:



That being said, now we know how Round earth believes that GPS works (and how they made it work). Is there any theories that make sense from the FE side on how GPS works?

Balloons would be knocked around with wind which is unpredictable and changes our previous idea of where the balloon is, and this destroy the accuracy of GPS', so that theory doesnt really add up. Cell towers dont work because GPS still works at sea. Even if we were to say that ships use stars for navigation, it doesnt explain apple iphones having gps connection at sea.

This video reminds me of one big fairy tale. Finding the balance like on an amplifier for my stereo. Just dial it in perfectly to orbit around for years and years...he he  There is no way a satellite can fall back to earth perfectly timed to gravity and a spinning ball. That's all Newton make believe. We don't even know what gravity is because there is no gravity.

Keep trying guys, the six of you with your aliases just keep talking to each other explaining what we the flat earthers believe...no we don't believe what you think. We believe in truth.

[3DGeek]

This video reminds me of one big fairy tale. Finding the balance like on an amplifier for my stereo. Just dial it in perfectly to orbit around for years and years...he he  There is no way a satellite can fall back to earth perfectly timed to gravity and a spinning ball. That's all Newton make believe. We don't even know what gravity is because there is no gravity.

Oh - if only mankind had invented some kind of small, cheap, low power, device that could monitor situations like this and apply small corrections to keep everything working nicely.  Something that could do lots of calculations very quickly and that you could tell what to do in an abstract mathematical fashion.

Well, if we had something that could do things like that, they'd probably give it some ugly name like "computatrix", "computator", "computron"...maybe just "computer"?

Nah - I'm dreaming.  They probably stay up there with unicorn-farts.

[Ohitstarik]

So round earth theory has mathematical proof of how GPS sattelites' orbits work, live demonstrations, videos, and countless years of, again, mathematical research to back it all up. Flat earth has a couple theories that have a couple holes each rendering them false and believes that sattelites cant exist because gravity doesnt.

Is that our final conclusion? I'm trying to be as neutral as possible here. Talking with j-man raises more questions than he answers but i'm going to try to keep them focused to the GPS part. For example, for gravity there's an explanation of earth accelerating upwards (still the question of why things at high altitude experience less gravity than others but lets skip on this) at 9.8 m/s^2, which explains how gravity works on a flat earth. Relativity explains how we can keep accelerating. Nothing explains the GPS without having huge holes in its theories though, sooo... any other explanation?

This video reminds me of one big fairy tale. Finding the balance like on an amplifier for my stereo. Just dial it in perfectly to orbit around for years and years...he he  There is no way a satellite can fall back to earth perfectly timed to gravity and a spinning ball. That's all Newton make believe. We don't even know what gravity is because there is no gravity.

Oh - if only mankind had invented some kind of small, cheap, low power, device that could monitor situations like this and apply small corrections to keep everything working nicely.  Something that could do lots of calculations very quickly and that you could tell what to do in an abstract mathematical fashion.

Before J-Man comes through and says no such thing is possible, i'm working on tuning a PID controller for stability right now and it's held attitude while my aircraft glides. So, yes, computers can stabilize stuff and do the math for you.

Its funny how J-man talks about aliases when he has one just like everybody else. I have nothing to hide, ohitstarik is me across the internet. Even has my name in there.

[mtnman]

Aliases, multiple IDs on the same site, is that what people mean when they talk about "alts"?

[J-Man]

J-Man really draws a crowd, 3 pitbull types again with weak jaws. J-man makes them bow to the owner. No guys Gravity cannot be proved even Mic Dropper doesn't know what it is, no one has seen it.

GPS works just fine off repeater antennas, balloons, bouncing off the dome and home base communication.

I thought you guys were going to ignore me or get me banned? Weak

I bring Truth, knowledge you can afford to be told to the masses.

[mtnman]

GPS works just fine off repeater antennas, balloons, bouncing off the dome and home base communication.

Banned? What and miss this entertainment?

So several people (myself included) posted logical, thoughtful comments. And you just repeat the BS about GPS working with balloons. I'll chalk this one up as a RE win until you present some actual facts or evidence. Which I know you can't.

Or better yet, explain how position can be established using a non directional signal bounced off the inside of a dome. That should be fun.

[J-Man]

GPS works just fine off repeater antennas, balloons, bouncing off the dome and home base communication.

Banned? What and miss this entertainment?

So several people (myself included) posted logical, thoughtful comments. And you just repeat the BS about GPS working with balloons. I'll chalk this one up as a RE win until you present some actual facts or evidence. Which I know you can't.

Or better yet, explain how position can be established using a non directional signal bounced off the inside of a dome. That should be fun.

That is an easy one. The good book (Bible) says God hears us all, so when we go to bounce communication of any type off the dome it doesn't really matter the direction. God knows from whom and to who even before it's sent.

So yes "God did It"

[mtnman]

That is an easy one. The good book (Bible) says God hears us all, so when we go to bounce communication of any type off the dome it doesn't really matter the direction. God knows from whom and to who even before it's sent.

So yes "God did It"

RE win confirmed.

But just to be clear, I know you're just trolling and you couldn't actually believe the crap you post. I'm only responding for the sake of anyone with an open mind who might wander by.

[Ohitstarik]

....except apparently even the bible points to a round earth..

http://www.eternal-productions.org/PDFS/articles/Does%20the%20Bible%20Teach%20a%20Spherical%20Earth.pdf

This thread got way off topic though. junker might want to just lock it or move it.

[TomInAustin]

I would suggest reading the wiki and FAQ.

A search of the Wiki returns no GPS information.

[J-Man]

....except apparently even the bible points to a round earth..

http://www.eternal-productions.org/PDFS/articles/Does%20the%20Bible%20Teach%20a%20Spherical%20Earth.pdf

This thread got way off topic though. junker might want to just lock it or move it.

Actually junker should just delete your post since it's not factual or on topic