How does FE think that GPS works?
« on: September 29, 2017, 10:44:48 PM »
In a flat earth, orbit isnt possible, so how does GPS work?

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Offline juner

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Re: How does FE think that GPS works?
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2017, 10:48:22 PM »
I would suggest reading the wiki and FAQ.

Re: How does FE think that GPS works?
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2017, 10:51:54 PM »
So to make sure i'm understanding gravity correctly.. we're always accelerating upwards at 9.8m/s? how does that explain different amounts of gravity at different points on the earth though? the wiki answers this with tidal effects, since stars have "gravity", but the wiki itself said that gravity wasnt real since you needed to have a round shape pulling everything uniformly to the center. So..? how does all of this work? is gravity real or not?

andddd if we've been accelerating at 9.8m/s^2 since beginning of time.. shouldnt have we accelerated to the speed of light at this point? I know that things with matter cant reach the speed of light, so at some point we would have to have stopped accelerating at 9.8m/s^2, which would, you know, stop us from having "weight".

there's also nothing about GPS. https://wiki.tfes.org/GPS_and_Sat-Nav

Reading through the wiki and got some questions stuck in my head. Hopefully someone helps clear all this up :).
« Last Edit: September 29, 2017, 11:00:33 PM by Ohitstarik »

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Offline juner

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Re: How does FE think that GPS works?
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2017, 11:38:58 PM »
Acceleration has nothing to do with this thread.

And no, we would not have accelerated to the speed of light. You can undergo constant acceleration forever and asymptotically approach light speed but never reach it.

Re: How does FE think that GPS works?
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2017, 12:05:25 AM »
Yeah see, if you're at 99.9999% the speed of light, you cant just keep accelerating at 9.8m/s^2. Every second that passed, you would have to add 9.8m/s to your total speed, which.. you know, increases your speed, and would one day hit 299792458 m/s.

you dont get to 299792457.999999999999 and keep adding .000000009 (or w.e.) m/s of velocity, because if you did then you wouldnt be accelerating at 9.8 m/s^2 anymore, correct? Also, if you're asymptotically accelerating, that means your acceleration curve isnt linear, so you're not always accelerating at 9.8m/s. right?

Also, what about the GPS stuff? And the gravity of other planets? You seem to have been here for a while so I appreciate all of the help!
« Last Edit: September 30, 2017, 12:16:19 AM by Ohitstarik »

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Offline juner

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Re: How does FE think that GPS works?
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2017, 12:41:27 AM »
Yeah see, if you're at 99.9999% the speed of light, you cant just keep accelerating at 9.8m/s^2. Every second that passed, you would have to add 9.8m/s to your total speed, which.. you know, increases your speed, and would one day hit 299792458 m/s.

you dont get to 299792457.999999999999 and keep adding .000000009 (or w.e.) m/s of velocity, because if you did then you wouldnt be accelerating at 9.8 m/s^2 anymore, correct? Also, if you're asymptotically accelerating, that means your acceleration curve isnt linear, so you're not always accelerating at 9.8m/s. right?

Yeah see, that isn't how it works. You are applying classical mechanics to a scenario that requires Special Relativity. I would suggest looking into how acceleration works in SR.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: How does FE think that GPS works?
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2017, 02:17:08 AM »
Search the forums if the question is not answered elsewhere.

Re: How does FE think that GPS works?
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2017, 06:48:12 AM »
They can be right about this Ohitstarik.  The speed of light is only relevant when you are observing something else moving relative you yourself.  If it's you that's moving, the speed of light is equivalent to infinity and you will never get there.

Another way of putting it:
An object with mass can never reach the speed of light.  Fact.
Therefore an object with mass can constantly accelerate and never reach the speed of light.  Because it is a known fact that it can't.
The hallmark of true science is repeatability to the point of accurate prediction.

Offline 3DGeek

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Re: How does FE think that GPS works?
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2017, 04:05:25 PM »
Yeah see, if you're at 99.9999% the speed of light, you cant just keep accelerating at 9.8m/s^2. Every second that passed, you would have to add 9.8m/s to your total speed, which.. you know, increases your speed, and would one day hit 299792458 m/s.

you dont get to 299792457.999999999999 and keep adding .000000009 (or w.e.) m/s of velocity, because if you did then you wouldnt be accelerating at 9.8 m/s^2 anymore, correct? Also, if you're asymptotically accelerating, that means your acceleration curve isnt linear, so you're not always accelerating at 9.8m/s. right?

You're failing to understand special relativity - from YOUR perspective on the Earth, you cannot tell by any means how fast you're going - so you can always go another 9.8 m/s faster in the next second.   It's a fundamental tenet of relativity.

From the perspective of some hypothetical being off to the side of the world, watching it fly by - there would be a problem with adding 9.8 m/s of speed every second - because the world would soon be moving faster than light - which is not allowed.

What THEY see is that as the earth moves faster and faster, so we get this weird phenomenon of "time dilation".   It appears to our observer as if time itself is slowing down on the Earth...everyone's clocks are going slower and slower - their heartbeats slow down - chemical reactions go slower.  EVERYTHING S-L--O---W----S------D----------O-----------W------------------N.

And that solves the problem.   From our perspective, we do gain 9.8m/s every second - but from the outside observer's perspective, those seconds are happening less and less frequently.

That slowing of time is what prevents the earth from EVER reaching the speed of light.   It's like one day we're going at 99% of lightspeed, the next day we're at 99.9% but our clocks are running 10x slower so after the next day (on earth) we're only at 99.99% and the clocks are running 100x slower the next day 99.999% and 1000x slower...then....

So we happily believe we're accelerating without limits and because we can't see beyond the little bubble of our skies - our actual speed is indeterminate...it might as well be zero...so this can go on forever.

From the point of view of an "outsider" the clocks on Earth are almost at a standstill - they tick only once every trillion years maybe.   Speed is still getting closer to lightspeed - but the pace of that acceleration has slowed to an almost complete standstill.

In the "real" universe, this would soon become problematic because with our clocks ticking so slowly from an outsider perspective - the "heat death" of the universe would happen before we here on Earth could have breakfast.

But as far as the FE'ers are concerned, our little bubble of life is all that there is in some infinite void of nothingness...there is nothing in the outside universe to come to an end.

Fortunately - this bleak picture is complete hogwash because they can't explain simple stuff like how the moon looks from three different perspectives or how sunsets, tides or a bunch of other things can happen...but that's another thread.

The bottom line (from a committed RE'er) is that you CANNOT defeat UA on the basis of lightspeed limits.

You CAN, however demonstrate that it would take an infinite amount of energy to make it work - and that it doesn't explain variable gravity or the tides.



Hey Tom:  What path do the photons take from the physical location of the sun to my eye at sunset?

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Offline juner

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Re: How does FE think that GPS works?
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2017, 04:20:39 PM »
Now that acceleration has been covered, can everyone get back on topic if they're going to post in this thread (me included).

Re: How does FE think that GPS works?
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2017, 05:05:09 PM »
Now that acceleration has been covered, can everyone get back on topic if they're going to post in this thread (me included).
Sure thing.

The most frequent solutions I see cited are: 1) Cell phone towers are actually the source. 2) Small satellite type objects floating high in the sky via weather balloon. 3) Stratellites, that just somehow float? I've seen this one, but never a good explanation. I think it's tied to balloons though still. 4) Some combination of the above.

As with most of FE it's a small banquet, and you get to pick and choose your own entree, and perhaps a side.

Re: How does FE think that GPS works?
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2017, 05:12:29 PM »
infinity/limits has never been my thing, really is interesting that it works that way. have never looked into special relativity, shits amazing

Anyways the cell tower thing doesnt strike me since ships still have navigation and gps coordinates. Still amazes me that the military just lets us use GPS for free. Weather balloons could make sense but they don't chill up there forever. helium leaks over time from what I know, but with higher quality balloons maybe it wouldnt? not sure. Thanks to all the explanations about the gravity thing!

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Offline J-Man

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Re: How does FE think that GPS works?
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2017, 05:22:11 PM »
infinity/limits has never been my thing, really is interesting that it works that way. have never looked into special relativity, shits amazing

Anyways the cell tower thing doesnt strike me since ships still have navigation and gps coordinates. Still amazes me that the military just lets us use GPS for free. Weather balloons could make sense but they don't chill up there forever. helium leaks over time from what I know, but with higher quality balloons maybe it wouldnt? not sure. Thanks to all the explanations about the gravity thing!

There are over 1,800 weather balloons released EVERY SINGLE DAY....Now add just as many secret ones daily, you ever seen one?

 NOPE

4,000 everyday and you've never seen one.
What kind of person would devote endless hours posting scientific facts trying to correct the few retards who believe in the FE? I slay shitty little demons.

Re: How does FE think that GPS works?
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2017, 05:27:08 PM »
infinity/limits has never been my thing, really is interesting that it works that way. have never looked into special relativity, shits amazing

Anyways the cell tower thing doesnt strike me since ships still have navigation and gps coordinates. Still amazes me that the military just lets us use GPS for free. Weather balloons could make sense but they don't chill up there forever. helium leaks over time from what I know, but with higher quality balloons maybe it wouldnt? not sure. Thanks to all the explanations about the gravity thing!

There are over 1,800 weather balloons released EVERY SINGLE DAY....Now add just as many secret ones daily, you ever seen one?

 NOPE

4,000 everyday and you've never seen one.
GPS uses satellites. known and understood.  See documentation.

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Offline J-Man

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Re: How does FE think that GPS works?
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2017, 05:44:48 PM »
infinity/limits has never been my thing, really is interesting that it works that way. have never looked into special relativity, shits amazing

Anyways the cell tower thing doesnt strike me since ships still have navigation and gps coordinates. Still amazes me that the military just lets us use GPS for free. Weather balloons could make sense but they don't chill up there forever. helium leaks over time from what I know, but with higher quality balloons maybe it wouldnt? not sure. Thanks to all the explanations about the gravity thing!

There are over 1,800 weather balloons released EVERY SINGLE DAY....Now add just as many secret ones daily, you ever seen one?

 NOPE

4,000 everyday and you've never seen one.
GPS uses satellites. known and understood.  See documentation.

What about gravity? Satellites would fall back to earth like everything else does then stick to the surface like water and peoples. See documentation and facts.
What kind of person would devote endless hours posting scientific facts trying to correct the few retards who believe in the FE? I slay shitty little demons.

Re: How does FE think that GPS works?
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2017, 05:53:15 PM »
infinity/limits has never been my thing, really is interesting that it works that way. have never looked into special relativity, shits amazing

Anyways the cell tower thing doesnt strike me since ships still have navigation and gps coordinates. Still amazes me that the military just lets us use GPS for free. Weather balloons could make sense but they don't chill up there forever. helium leaks over time from what I know, but with higher quality balloons maybe it wouldnt? not sure. Thanks to all the explanations about the gravity thing!

There are over 1,800 weather balloons released EVERY SINGLE DAY....Now add just as many secret ones daily, you ever seen one?

 NOPE

4,000 everyday and you've never seen one.
GPS uses satellites. known and understood.  See documentation.

What about gravity? Satellites would fall back to earth like everything else does then stick to the surface like water and peoples. See documentation and facts.
TV ones stay in position.

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Offline J-Man

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Re: How does FE think that GPS works?
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2017, 06:11:59 PM »
infinity/limits has never been my thing, really is interesting that it works that way. have never looked into special relativity, shits amazing

Anyways the cell tower thing doesnt strike me since ships still have navigation and gps coordinates. Still amazes me that the military just lets us use GPS for free. Weather balloons could make sense but they don't chill up there forever. helium leaks over time from what I know, but with higher quality balloons maybe it wouldnt? not sure. Thanks to all the explanations about the gravity thing!

There are over 1,800 weather balloons released EVERY SINGLE DAY....Now add just as many secret ones daily, you ever seen one?

 NOPE

4,000 everyday and you've never seen one.
GPS uses satellites. known and understood.  See documentation.

What about gravity? Satellites would fall back to earth like everything else does then stick to the surface like water and peoples. See documentation and facts.
TV ones stay in position.

So they defy gravity? Now I'm confused, maybe there is no gravity like Flat Earthers have been saying? How could one defy something so powerful that holds the oceans to the surface of the planet spinning 1,000 MPH. This is just obsurd. I think you've proven there is no gravity, now what holds the water down? I get it the Earth is Flat and water is heavier than the air, so it falls. Density thang.
What kind of person would devote endless hours posting scientific facts trying to correct the few retards who believe in the FE? I slay shitty little demons.

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Offline J-Man

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Re: How does FE think that GPS works?
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2017, 06:23:20 PM »
Defying Gravity is all CGI

That rhymes.

When you watch this video, think ISS, yes this CGI fakery is pretty good and the earth moon pics are superb huh? You believe the ISS under water green screen but not this video? Just because they tell you it's fake. The ISS is fake momo.


Satellites don't defy gravity and hover over the earth motionless, it's all an illusion and people buy it. TV signals can be delivered off towers or bounced off the dome.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I'll add to this post. Forget satellites, they are dreams. When you go buy expensive GPS systems for say construction one thing is always prevalent and that is this REMOTE station that runs on POWER at your job site or in the remote woods MUST be able to talk to the BASE station to get accurate positions. The satellite links is ridiculous, earth moving, 4 satellites moving and some chipset is going to give you a very accurate position from moving parts...hah dreams of my father

No it's called remote antenna position, home base and repeaters or towers. Done and done simple, no defying density
« Last Edit: September 30, 2017, 07:16:30 PM by J-Man »
What kind of person would devote endless hours posting scientific facts trying to correct the few retards who believe in the FE? I slay shitty little demons.

Re: How does FE think that GPS works?
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2017, 07:02:23 PM »
Defying Gravity is all CGI

That rhymes.


Satellites don't defy gravity and hover over the earth motionless, it's all an illusion and people buy it. TV signals can be delivered off towers or bounced off the dome.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I'll add to this post. Forget satellites, they are dreams. When you go buy expensive GPS systems for say construction one thing is always prevalent and that is this REMOTE station that runs on POWER at your job site or in the remote woods MUST be able to talk to the BASE station to get accurate positions. The satellite links is ridiculous, earth moving, 4 satellites moving and some chipset is going to give you a very accurate position from moving parts...hah dreams of my father

No it's called remote antenna position, home base and repeaters or towers. Done and done simple, no defying density
And navigation in the middle of an ocean?

And tv dish angles prove satellites.

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Offline J-Man

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Re: How does FE think that GPS works?
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2017, 07:24:44 PM »
Defying Gravity is all CGI

That rhymes.


Satellites don't defy gravity and hover over the earth motionless, it's all an illusion and people buy it. TV signals can be delivered off towers or bounced off the dome.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I'll add to this post. Forget satellites, they are dreams. When you go buy expensive GPS systems for say construction one thing is always prevalent and that is this REMOTE station that runs on POWER at your job site or in the remote woods MUST be able to talk to the BASE station to get accurate positions. The satellite links is ridiculous, earth moving, 4 satellites moving and some chipset is going to give you a very accurate position from moving parts...hah dreams of my father

No it's called remote antenna position, home base and repeaters or towers. Done and done simple, no defying density
And navigation in the middle of an ocean?

And tv dish angles prove satellites.

https://www.e-education.psu.edu/geog160/node/1926

Dude you're so gullible. Read the provided link. Surveyors used "Fixed" positions and now wait for it...........

The "STARS"

Dem things GOD put up there to GPS ones self. Go Figure.

OMG Dish Network is looking at a moving satellite to give me grainy reception....duh I'm changing my avatar just for you son, enjoy the Victory
« Last Edit: September 30, 2017, 07:26:44 PM by J-Man »
What kind of person would devote endless hours posting scientific facts trying to correct the few retards who believe in the FE? I slay shitty little demons.