[Thork]

And there's no real evidence that he invented dr pepper.

I have the original recipe for Dr Birley's phosphorous tonic. It is the constituent ingredients for a 'tart' tasting sugary beverage and pre dates Dr Pepper. Dr Pepper's first recipe is almost identical albeit appearing just a few years later. When you see the labelling on the first Dr Pepper drinks and the slogans and compare to Dr Birley's, the similarity is jaw-dropping. Unfortunately, Rowbotham died just as Dr Birley's was really taking off, leaving a gap in the market.

Fun fact: Rowbotham used the flat earth society as a ready made distribution network for his tonic. It was a real money spinner for the society.

Annoyingly, Garwood identifies that TFES sells the tonic, but isn't smart enough to identify that what is being sold is an early form of cola. She makes out that it is some evil witch doctor potion for scamming people. She fails to realise the context of the era, where Victorians were obsessed with elixirs and ALL cola companies for the next 30 years would market their drinks as a medical tonic.

[Gulliver]

And there's no real evidence that he invented dr pepper.

I have the original recipe for Dr Birley's phosphorous tonic. It is the constituent ingredients for a 'tart' tasting sugary beverage and pre dates Dr Pepper. Dr Pepper's first recipe is almost identical albeit appearing just a few years later. When you see the labelling on the first Dr Pepper drinks and the slogans and compare to Dr Birley's, the similarity is jaw-dropping. Unfortunately, Rowbotham died just as Dr Birley's was really taking off, leaving a gap in the market.

Fun fact: Rowbotham used the flat earth society as a ready made distribution network for his tonic. It was a real money spinner for the society.

So then you have no evidence that he invented Dr. Pepper. Thanks.

[Thork]

And there's no real evidence that he invented dr pepper.

I have the original recipe for Dr Birley's phosphorous tonic. It is the constituent ingredients for a 'tart' tasting sugary beverage and pre dates Dr Pepper. Dr Pepper's first recipe is almost identical albeit appearing just a few years later. When you see the labelling on the first Dr Pepper drinks and the slogans and compare to Dr Birley's, the similarity is jaw-dropping. Unfortunately, Rowbotham died just as Dr Birley's was really taking off, leaving a gap in the market.

Fun fact: Rowbotham used the flat earth society as a ready made distribution network for his tonic. It was a real money spinner for the society.

So then you have no evidence that he invented Dr. Pepper. Thanks.

It is a forerunner for Dr Pepper. Dr Pepper is a rip off of Birley's tonic. That I can prove.

[Gulliver]

And there's no real evidence that he invented dr pepper.

I have the original recipe for Dr Birley's phosphorous tonic. It is the constituent ingredients for a 'tart' tasting sugary beverage and pre dates Dr Pepper. Dr Pepper's first recipe is almost identical albeit appearing just a few years later. When you see the labelling on the first Dr Pepper drinks and the slogans and compare to Dr Birley's, the similarity is jaw-dropping. Unfortunately, Rowbotham died just as Dr Birley's was really taking off, leaving a gap in the market.

Fun fact: Rowbotham used the flat earth society as a ready made distribution network for his tonic. It was a real money spinner for the society.

So then you have no evidence that he invented Dr. Pepper. Thanks.

It is a forerunner for Dr Pepper. Dr Pepper is a rip off of Birley's tonic. That I can prove.

Then please do, and stop making infounded claims that R invented Dr. Pepper.

[Thork]

And there's no real evidence that he invented dr pepper.

I have the original recipe for Dr Birley's phosphorous tonic. It is the constituent ingredients for a 'tart' tasting sugary beverage and pre dates Dr Pepper. Dr Pepper's first recipe is almost identical albeit appearing just a few years later. When you see the labelling on the first Dr Pepper drinks and the slogans and compare to Dr Birley's, the similarity is jaw-dropping. Unfortunately, Rowbotham died just as Dr Birley's was really taking off, leaving a gap in the market.

Fun fact: Rowbotham used the flat earth society as a ready made distribution network for his tonic. It was a real money spinner for the society.

So then you have no evidence that he invented Dr. Pepper. Thanks.

It is a forerunner for Dr Pepper. Dr Pepper is a rip off of Birley's tonic. That I can prove.

Then please do, and stop making infounded claims that R invented Dr. Pepper.

I didn't say he invented Dr Pepper, I said he invented a drink that would later be sold as Dr Pepper. This pre-dates the Coca-Cola company's version without cocaine. They ended up copying much of the recipe too. All these drinks are heavy on sugar, have tartaric acid in them and a small amount of phosphoric acid. They even stick very closely to Rowbotham's original quantities of each. He invented the cola type drinks that sell in their billions around the world today. That's pretty amazing, no? Surely worth a paragraph or two in any new book.

[Gulliver]

And there's no real evidence that he invented dr pepper.

I have the original recipe for Dr Birley's phosphorous tonic. It is the constituent ingredients for a 'tart' tasting sugary beverage and pre dates Dr Pepper. Dr Pepper's first recipe is almost identical albeit appearing just a few years later. When you see the labelling on the first Dr Pepper drinks and the slogans and compare to Dr Birley's, the similarity is jaw-dropping. Unfortunately, Rowbotham died just as Dr Birley's was really taking off, leaving a gap in the market.

Fun fact: Rowbotham used the flat earth society as a ready made distribution network for his tonic. It was a real money spinner for the society.

So then you have no evidence that he invented Dr. Pepper. Thanks.

It is a forerunner for Dr Pepper. Dr Pepper is a rip off of Birley's tonic. That I can prove.

Then please do, and stop making infounded claims that R invented Dr. Pepper.

I didn't say he invented Dr Pepper, I said he invented a drink that would later be sold as Dr Pepper. This pre-dates the Coca-Cola company's version without cocaine. They ended up copying much of the recipe too. All these drinks are heavy on sugar, have tartaric acid in them and a small amount of phosphoric acid. They even stick very closely to Rowbotham's original quantities of each. He invented the cola type drinks that sell in their billions around the world today. That's pretty amazing, no? Surely worth a paragraph or two in any new book.

Odd, you argue for R's greatness because someone else used successfully a similar formula. No, it's not amazing. No it's not worth a paragraph.

[Thork]

And there's no real evidence that he invented dr pepper.

I have the original recipe for Dr Birley's phosphorous tonic. It is the constituent ingredients for a 'tart' tasting sugary beverage and pre dates Dr Pepper. Dr Pepper's first recipe is almost identical albeit appearing just a few years later. When you see the labelling on the first Dr Pepper drinks and the slogans and compare to Dr Birley's, the similarity is jaw-dropping. Unfortunately, Rowbotham died just as Dr Birley's was really taking off, leaving a gap in the market.

Fun fact: Rowbotham used the flat earth society as a ready made distribution network for his tonic. It was a real money spinner for the society.

So then you have no evidence that he invented Dr. Pepper. Thanks.

It is a forerunner for Dr Pepper. Dr Pepper is a rip off of Birley's tonic. That I can prove.

Then please do, and stop making infounded claims that R invented Dr. Pepper.

I didn't say he invented Dr Pepper, I said he invented a drink that would later be sold as Dr Pepper. This pre-dates the Coca-Cola company's version without cocaine. They ended up copying much of the recipe too. All these drinks are heavy on sugar, have tartaric acid in them and a small amount of phosphoric acid. They even stick very closely to Rowbotham's original quantities of each. He invented the cola type drinks that sell in their billions around the world today. That's pretty amazing, no? Surely worth a paragraph or two in any new book.

Odd, you argue for R's greatness because someone else used successfully a similar formula. No, it's not amazing. No it's not worth a paragraph.

Are you being deliberately facetious? A man invents a tonic, which goes on to be the most widely consumed soft drink in the world, and you don't think that merits a mention? Should we omit the Wright Brothers from history because Boeing make way more aircraft these days?

[Gulliver]

And there's no real evidence that he invented dr pepper.

I have the original recipe for Dr Birley's phosphorous tonic. It is the constituent ingredients for a 'tart' tasting sugary beverage and pre dates Dr Pepper. Dr Pepper's first recipe is almost identical albeit appearing just a few years later. When you see the labelling on the first Dr Pepper drinks and the slogans and compare to Dr Birley's, the similarity is jaw-dropping. Unfortunately, Rowbotham died just as Dr Birley's was really taking off, leaving a gap in the market.

Fun fact: Rowbotham used the flat earth society as a ready made distribution network for his tonic. It was a real money spinner for the society.

So then you have no evidence that he invented Dr. Pepper. Thanks.

It is a forerunner for Dr Pepper. Dr Pepper is a rip off of Birley's tonic. That I can prove.

Then please do, and stop making infounded claims that R invented Dr. Pepper.

I didn't say he invented Dr Pepper, I said he invented a drink that would later be sold as Dr Pepper. This pre-dates the Coca-Cola company's version without cocaine. They ended up copying much of the recipe too. All these drinks are heavy on sugar, have tartaric acid in them and a small amount of phosphoric acid. They even stick very closely to Rowbotham's original quantities of each. He invented the cola type drinks that sell in their billions around the world today. That's pretty amazing, no? Surely worth a paragraph or two in any new book.

Odd, you argue for R's greatness because someone else used successfully a similar formula. No, it's not amazing. No it's not worth a paragraph.

Are you being deliberately facetious? A man invents a tonic, which goes on to be the most widely consumed soft drink in the world, and you don't think that merits a mention? Should we omit the Wright Brothers from history because Boeing make way more aircraft these days?

Since his tonic did not sell well, no, you really shouldn't bother with an off-topic, insignificant additional failure.

[Thork]

And there's no real evidence that he invented dr pepper.

I have the original recipe for Dr Birley's phosphorous tonic. It is the constituent ingredients for a 'tart' tasting sugary beverage and pre dates Dr Pepper. Dr Pepper's first recipe is almost identical albeit appearing just a few years later. When you see the labelling on the first Dr Pepper drinks and the slogans and compare to Dr Birley's, the similarity is jaw-dropping. Unfortunately, Rowbotham died just as Dr Birley's was really taking off, leaving a gap in the market.

Fun fact: Rowbotham used the flat earth society as a ready made distribution network for his tonic. It was a real money spinner for the society.

So then you have no evidence that he invented Dr. Pepper. Thanks.

It is a forerunner for Dr Pepper. Dr Pepper is a rip off of Birley's tonic. That I can prove.

Then please do, and stop making infounded claims that R invented Dr. Pepper.

I didn't say he invented Dr Pepper, I said he invented a drink that would later be sold as Dr Pepper. This pre-dates the Coca-Cola company's version without cocaine. They ended up copying much of the recipe too. All these drinks are heavy on sugar, have tartaric acid in them and a small amount of phosphoric acid. They even stick very closely to Rowbotham's original quantities of each. He invented the cola type drinks that sell in their billions around the world today. That's pretty amazing, no? Surely worth a paragraph or two in any new book.

Odd, you argue for R's greatness because someone else used successfully a similar formula. No, it's not amazing. No it's not worth a paragraph.

Are you being deliberately facetious? A man invents a tonic, which goes on to be the most widely consumed soft drink in the world, and you don't think that merits a mention? Should we omit the Wright Brothers from history because Boeing make way more aircraft these days?

Since his tonic did not sell well, no, you really shouldn't bother with an off-topic, insignificant additional failure.

Oh, it sold. Rowbotham lived in a 14 bedroom mansion. Where on earth do you think he got the money? From public speaking about earth's shape? It was the tonic that made him wealthy and also fuelled the society. But he died before it could go global.

So again, tell me how well the Wright Brother's aircraft sold. We can then compare that to companies that came later.

[Gulliver]

And there's no real evidence that he invented dr pepper.

I have the original recipe for Dr Birley's phosphorous tonic. It is the constituent ingredients for a 'tart' tasting sugary beverage and pre dates Dr Pepper. Dr Pepper's first recipe is almost identical albeit appearing just a few years later. When you see the labelling on the first Dr Pepper drinks and the slogans and compare to Dr Birley's, the similarity is jaw-dropping. Unfortunately, Rowbotham died just as Dr Birley's was really taking off, leaving a gap in the market.

Fun fact: Rowbotham used the flat earth society as a ready made distribution network for his tonic. It was a real money spinner for the society.

So then you have no evidence that he invented Dr. Pepper. Thanks.

It is a forerunner for Dr Pepper. Dr Pepper is a rip off of Birley's tonic. That I can prove.

Then please do, and stop making infounded claims that R invented Dr. Pepper.

I didn't say he invented Dr Pepper, I said he invented a drink that would later be sold as Dr Pepper. This pre-dates the Coca-Cola company's version without cocaine. They ended up copying much of the recipe too. All these drinks are heavy on sugar, have tartaric acid in them and a small amount of phosphoric acid. They even stick very closely to Rowbotham's original quantities of each. He invented the cola type drinks that sell in their billions around the world today. That's pretty amazing, no? Surely worth a paragraph or two in any new book.

Odd, you argue for R's greatness because someone else used successfully a similar formula. No, it's not amazing. No it's not worth a paragraph.

Are you being deliberately facetious? A man invents a tonic, which goes on to be the most widely consumed soft drink in the world, and you don't think that merits a mention? Should we omit the Wright Brothers from history because Boeing make way more aircraft these days?

Since his tonic did not sell well, no, you really shouldn't bother with an off-topic, insignificant additional failure.

Oh, it sold. Rowbotham lived in a 14 bedroom mansion. Where on earth do you think he got the money? From public speaking about earth's shape? It was the tonic that made him wealthy and also fuelled the society. But he died before it could go global.

So again, tell me how well the Wright Brother's aircraft sold. We can then compare that to companies that came later.

Income citation needed. Just because you say doesn't make it true.

[markjo]

And there's no real evidence that he invented dr pepper.

I have the original recipe for Dr Birley's phosphorous tonic. It is the constituent ingredients for a 'tart' tasting sugary beverage and pre dates Dr Pepper. Dr Pepper's first recipe is almost identical albeit appearing just a few years later. When you see the labelling on the first Dr Pepper drinks and the slogans and compare to Dr Birley's, the similarity is jaw-dropping. Unfortunately, Rowbotham died just as Dr Birley's was really taking off, leaving a gap in the market.

Fun fact: Rowbotham used the flat earth society as a ready made distribution network for his tonic. It was a real money spinner for the society.

So then you have no evidence that he invented Dr. Pepper. Thanks.

It is a forerunner for Dr Pepper. Dr Pepper is a rip off of Birley's tonic. That I can prove.

Just out of curiosity, is Dr. Pepper a generic term for sweet, carbonated beverages in Europe?  I ask because Dr. Pepper has a very specific flavor profile that I highly doubt that Dr Birley's tonic had.

[squevil]

I know all about it thork. I read your original thread about it.
I do not need convincing, as I said its noteworthy and gives credit to the man and will make an interesting addition. I don't know why people are debating it, the point is that its an interesting fact about a man who the general public know little about. I think there should be a short biography in the opening chapter. Other than that the only changes I would make would be to improve the diagrams and a chapter at the end that gives a short history of the modern flat earth society. Everything else I would leave as it is.

Not that it matters, but was this actually an original formular or was there similar products on the market at the time? The question is rhetorical. I don't care either way. But it might be worth investigating to make a solid case if it was published.

[Thork]

I know all about it thork. I read your original thread about it.
I do not need convincing, as I said its noteworthy and gives credit to the man and will make an interesting addition. I don't know why people are debating it, the point is that its an interesting fact about a man who the general public know little about. I think there should be a short biography in the opening chapter. Other than that the only changes I would make would be to improve the diagrams and a chapter at the end that gives a short history of the modern flat earth society. Everything else I would leave as it is.

Not that it matters, but was this actually an original formular or was there similar products on the market at the time? The question is rhetorical. I don't care either way. But it might be worth investigating to make a solid case if it was published.

It was original. It came from his research on phosphorus effects on the human brain that he conducted whilst at the University of Edinburgh. He then made the phosphorus tonic.

And there's no real evidence that he invented dr pepper.

I have the original recipe for Dr Birley's phosphorous tonic. It is the constituent ingredients for a 'tart' tasting sugary beverage and pre dates Dr Pepper. Dr Pepper's first recipe is almost identical albeit appearing just a few years later. When you see the labelling on the first Dr Pepper drinks and the slogans and compare to Dr Birley's, the similarity is jaw-dropping. Unfortunately, Rowbotham died just as Dr Birley's was really taking off, leaving a gap in the market.

Fun fact: Rowbotham used the flat earth society as a ready made distribution network for his tonic. It was a real money spinner for the society.

So then you have no evidence that he invented Dr. Pepper. Thanks.

It is a forerunner for Dr Pepper. Dr Pepper is a rip off of Birley's tonic. That I can prove.

Just out of curiosity, is Dr. Pepper a generic term for sweet, carbonated beverages in Europe?  I ask because Dr. Pepper has a very specific flavor profile that I highly doubt that Dr Birley's tonic had.

Its very similar to Dr Pepper's original recipe and pre-dates it. It would have had the same 'tart' taste that you don't get in other phosphorus drinks that came later like coca cola.

Click for full size

[Thork]

BIRLEY'S ANTI-CATARRH.
Supplied by Gordon, Murray, and Co., Limited, 10, Adam
Street, Stranld, London. Price is, lid. per bottle, contain.
ing nearly 3 fluid ounces. The bottle was accompanied by
four pages of printed matter headed " The Birley Monthly
Report," in which the "Anti-Catarrh" is included in a
" List and Prices of Dr. Birley's Compounds of Free (or
Unoxidised) Phosphorus," and described as " Special
Remedy for Catarrh and Influenza." The following
extracts are from, the same circular, under the heading
"The Wonders of Phosphorus."
Free (or unoxidised) Phosphorus, whose chief seat or situation
is in the brain, is one of the most important elements contained
in our bodies. Without Free Phosphorus there can be no
thought, and very probably no life...
One thing is proved beyond doubt, that the degree of intellectual thought depends upon the amount of Free Phosphorus in
the brain, and just as the Phosphorus is unduly wasted, so does;
the brain power weaken....
Free Phosphorus, it is thus shown, must be the saving agent
-no other means is possible. This one element must be
replaced.
The directions are:
For an ordinary cold take one tea-spoonful every two hours
until better, then every third and fourth hour, and finally night
and morning.
For severe attacks, commence by taking a dose every hour
until better, then gradually increase the period between each
dose as attack abates. For Children, give half doses.
Analysis showed the presence of:
Sugar (partly as " invert sugar ") ... 74 parts
Tartaric acid ... ... ... ... 1.15
Phosphoric acid ... ... ... 0.07 part
Alcohol ... ... ... trace
Water to ... ... ... ... 100 fluid parts
No free phosphorus could be detected, but the odour
when the bottle was first opened suggested the presence of
a trace. From the presence of a trace of alcohol it appears
probable that an alcoholic solution of phosphorus had been
added, and the phosphoric acid had been formed by its
oxidation. If the phosphorus found were in the free state
each fluid drachm would contain about E grain. The
liquid was of a light straw colour, probably produced by
addition of a trace of colouring matter.
Estimated cost of ingredients for 3 fluid ounces,4d.

[Thork]

[Thork]

Like many early sodas, the drink was marketed as a brain tonic and energizing pick-me-up, so another theory holds that it was named for the pep it supposedly gave to users.

From the Coca Cola Nutrition website

Phosphoric Acid
Phosphoric acid is a used in certain soft drinks, including Coca-Cola, to add tartness to the beverage. Phosphoric acid contains phosphorus, one of the basic elements of nature and an essential nutrient. Phosphorus is a major component of bones.

Tartaric Acid
Tartaric Acid is used to provide a tart taste. It can also be found in some foods, such as grapes.

Sugar
Sugar, also known as table sugar, is made from sugar cane or sugar beets. Sucrose is the technical name for table sugar.

[Thork]

From Dr Birley's Syrup of Free Phosphorus we get ...


Look at this. Dr Pepper's Phos-Ferrates!

In 1885, in Waco, Texas, a young pharmacist called Charles Alderton invented the soft drink "Dr Pepper".

Rowbotham died in 1884.
Rowbotham's research was published in 1881
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Phosphorus-discovered-prepared-Dr-Birley/dp/B00177WW4M

[Thork]

Anyway, bringing the thread back, in this society, we know a lot of things that is not in any book anywhere. Stuff that is at least interesting. We know all kinds of things from our own research.

Personally I'm pretty good on the life of Rowbotham (Tom Bishop likely knows more however), celestial gears, the clockwork universe, deism and Ptolemy as a chapter and certainly my speciality, I'm also pretty well versed in Voliva, Dowie and the Zionist cult. I'm not too bad on Lady Blount but could learn more. I'd also venture I would be the person to ask about space tourism and its various motives and inherent flaws. Maps and projection I can do, but it bores me to tears.

Other flat earthers will be good on other subjects. Tom again is an expert in the moon men hoax of 1969. I'm sure we can make an excellent new book, without having to rehash ENaG. We would have enough content without just explaining his book.

[Rama Set]

ESnaG?

[markjo]

Its very similar to Dr Pepper's original recipe and pre-dates it. It would have had the same 'tart' taste that you don't get in other phosphorus drinks that came later like coca cola.

Do you have a copy of the original Dr. Pepper formula so that we can compare the ingredients?