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Flat Earth Theory / Re: Latitude and longitude - please enlighten me

« on: June 02, 2020, 09:47:54 AM »

Robin, this is something I have wondered for a while too. How is Latitude and Longitude a round earth coordinate system as is sometimes claimed here.

As you say if in the northern part of the world you go to a particular place and measure the angle to Polaris it will always be the same, and we call that Latitude and measure it in degrees. If you move North the angle increases and if you move south it decreases.
In the southern part of the world there is a similar spot in the sky that can be used, it is not marked with a convenient star like in the north so it is not as straight forward to make the measurement.
The range of this measure is from 90 degrees North through 0 degrees to 90 degrees South.

As you also say Longitude can be measured in time offset. Again in the northern part of the world how long after the sun is due south from a reference point (Greenwich) is it due south in your location. All you need to measure this is a timepiece set to Greenwich time. This can be measured in hours or minutes for example.

Using these two measures should give a unique and consistent coordinate pair for any location on the Actual Earth.

The only concession to a circular world (either globe or disc) is in the representation of Longitude not in hours or minutes but rather in four minute increments and refereed to as degrees. This is based on the 24 hours for a cycle of the sun to complete one circle above a disc earth or the earth to complete one rotation in the globe earth. Either way 1/360 of 24 hours is 4 minutes.

I think your main question is, do Flat Earthers agree that these two basic observational measures give a location coordinate pair (latitude and longitude) that is unique and unchanging for a given location on the Earth?

Further that given an latitude and longitude for a location it would be possible to navigate to that point using only the measurement techniques described above. You may not know the distance or the direction, but you could travel north or south to get to the correct latitude, and then travel east or west to get to the right longitude. Not the most efficient path, but it would get you there.

2

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Why doesn't Jupiter adhere to the RE Seasons?

« on: May 23, 2020, 07:00:10 AM »

If we look at the data provided by Tom.

In the second image.
For Jupiter on 6-21-2018 (June Solstice)



This shows the Sun at maximum at 12:00 with the axis of rotation tilted towards the Sun.
Jupiter is at maximum some 9 hours later at something like 21:00.
This would have Jupiter positioned well and truly on the side of the away from the tilt of the axis of rotation (in the northern hemisphere). Though not exactly opposite the Sun it is something like 135 degrees away from the Sun.

In the fourth image six months later.
For Jupiter on 12-21-2018 (December Solstice)



This shows the Sun at maximum at 12:00 with the axis of rotation tilted away from the Sun.
Jupiter is at maximum about 1.5 hours earlier at something like 10:30.
This also would have Jupiter positioned well and truly on the side of the away from the tilt of the axis of rotation (in the Northern hemisphere).

Throughout the whole period of the images presented by Tom Jupiter would have been on the side of the earth away from the tilt of the axis in the Norther hemisphere.

Three of Toms images represent the view from London, the second image for some reason (I assume an unintentional error) is from some random location in the Baltic Sea. Hence the timings are a little out compared to the other three images.

If you are looking for a change in the length of time that Jupiter is above the horizon then you could either look at London about 6 years earlier or 6 years, which would Jupiter on the other side of its orbit. Or you could look from a point in the Southern hemisphere on the same dates that you used above for London. A similar point would be Port San Carlos in the Falkland Islands at about 51.5 degrees south. The Southern hemisphere would be tilted toward Jupiter during this period.

Someone who is better at this than me could probably point out the times when you could expect these values to be at there maximum and minimum for London. These would have nothing to do with the seasons, only the relationship of the tilt of the Earth and Earth's and Jupiter's positions in their orbits.

3

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Are plane tickets real?

« on: May 15, 2020, 11:26:07 PM »

Second off small distances do matter.
There is an entire branch of science called metrology dedicated to precise measurements measuring to the milliong/billionth of an inch actually is important and matters from things like nano technology, computer processors, or the precision engineering needed in a modern jet engine where, if one blade is long by .00000005 CM and another blade is short by .00000005 CM the entire engine would either not function or function much less efficiently.

"I" am doing engineering on jet engines in the real world and they don't need that level of accuracy, a claim made by you which is incorrect.

Do you have any evidence to support your claim that the building of modern jet engines requires less accurate measurements than what they were doing in the 1800's? I find a claim like that rather hard to believe and was unable to find any evidence to support or refute it online.

So lets see. You made a claim about the precision required in modern jet engines, and when called out on it claim you can find no evidence to support or refute it online.
I guess that makes your initial statement a baseless claim.

The Whitworth video was very interesting, and his measuring machine is truly marvelous. It however is still not capable of measuring the differences you are referring to.

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Flat Earth Theory / Re: Are plane tickets real?

« on: May 08, 2020, 11:21:40 PM »

If I took a math test and I put 1 + 1 = 1.9999999999999999999999999999995

the answer is WRONG.

I'm pretty sure everyone here would agree with you on this.
You have clearly introduced an error.

Again we are talking about math and a mathematical formula. Go take a first grade math test. On the question 1+ 1 = I want you to put 1.999999995 and see if the answer is correct or not. Now try again with the answer 2.0000000000005. This is the results of a mathematical calculation, so as a result both of the answers listed before are WRONG even though they are very very close to being right.

I guess we can just agree to disagree on what level of variation is considered noticeable.  if I said that 1 + 1 = 1.9999999995 I would consider the amount that equation is off to be noticeable.

Lets couch this in a slightly different way, in a practical real world application.
If I asked you to machine some bar stock and produce three 2cm lenghts, and the three pieces were actually 1.999999995, 2 and 2.0000000000005 cm respectivley. Could you really notice the difference?
You couldn't measure the difference with a vernier guage or a micrometer, you would need very sophisticated equipment to detect the difference.
In what real world application can you see this difference mattering?

If I ask you to measure out a distance to 2000km, and you measure it to the above accuracy you would be withn 5mm.
In what real world application can you see this difference mattering?

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Flat Earth Theory / Re: Are plane tickets real?

« on: May 01, 2020, 11:35:21 PM »

iamcpc made the point.

in binary x + x does not always equal 2x.

An accurate statement is that in binary
  x + x = 10x
Where for example
  0.01 + 0.01 = 0.1
  0.1 + 0.1 = 1
  1 + 1 = 10
  10 + 10 = 100

It seems iamcpc is under the impression that one tenth plus one tenth in binary does not equal two tenths.
This is incorrect and can be shown
 (1/1010) + (1/1010) = (10/1010)

The problem that iamcpc is highlighting is that when expressing fractional numbers in a decimal fraction style format not all values can be exactly represented.
For the Base 2 number system one tenth is one of these fractions.
The problem here is not that oneX + oneX <> twoX.
It is that X is not exactly equal to one tenth.

This is not a unique problem for Base 2.
Base 10 has the same issue with a range of fractions, 1/3 for example which has been pointed out.

It seems that iamcpc does not understand the use of precision in the real world.
It is also strange that when using computers such an exacting level of precision is being asked for, when one of the instruments that iamcpc has used to verify Bin’s distances is such inaccurate and imprecise device.

I have used a use a rolling measuring tape, GPS, I've driven a route that I've walked along the street and used my Car odometer, I've used wearable fitness trackers, and for a while I wore a pedometer which also tracked distance.

A Car odometer, a device that measures to the one tenth of a kilometre, (one tenth of a mile in the UK or USA), so not very precise. They also generally measure distance based on the rotation of a wheel, whose diameter and circumference vary over time (as tyres wear), so also not exactly accurate.
This seems to be quite a different standard to the one Robinofloxley is being held too.

I must say Robin that I have enjoyed your explanation and work in this thread, it is an example of the unexpected educational threads that pop up from time to time.

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Flat Earth Investigations / Re: the ISS light in the sky is fake, right?

« on: January 18, 2019, 10:11:22 PM »

So...I'll be honest, this isn't what I was expectint but now the calculated height is 432km. I'll admit this is a much bigger error than I was expecting.

Have I done something wrong or is this just how it is?

I think that you may be seeing a bigger discrepancy than you were expecting as there are two factors contributing to the discrepancy.
In the first instance you are taking the measurements and doing the math assuming that the Earth is flat.
In the second instance you are taking the measurements and doing the math assuming that the Earth is round.

If you want to see just what the difference is in using the arc length or the chord length for the base you need to calculate a third distance.
This would use the triangle that you used in the second example but use a side C length of 100 rather than 99.998.
(Angle C wont change between using arc or chord).

The rest of the discrepancy is then down to the different models.

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Flat Earth Community / Re: Global Positioning System

« on: August 05, 2018, 12:43:22 AM »

if the GPS "satellites" are actually high altitude planes...how does it work any different than the RE explanation?

The detailed operation of the GPS system run and maintained by the USA is incompatible with the signal source being transmitters on high altitude planes.
As such high altitude planes would not work with the RE explanation.