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Flat Earth Theory / The Bipolar Model according to Tom Bishop: Clockwork Sun

« on: April 09, 2017, 09:19:51 PM »

In the Bi-Polar model the sun makes North-South and South-North movements between the Tropic of Cancer and the Tropic of Capricorn. It would be circling the Northern Hemiplane for part of the year when it is warm in the North and cold in the South, and then it would switch gears and circle the Southern Hemiplane for the remainder of the year when it is cold in the North and warm in the South. The figure 8 takes place over the course of the year, just like in the sun's analemma.

So let me get this straight - the sun circles the northern like for one half of the year, describing circles in the sky over a localised point away from the southern countries.
It then, like clockwork, shifts to a similar track around the southern pole, describing the same circles in the opposite direction, going west to east in the sky.

Of course, it could keep going in the same direction, but that would mean that half way through the day, it would stop in the sky and go retrograde at the equinox, signalling the shift from summer to winter in the north and vice versa in the south.

It would also mean that the sun would never be overhead in the northern latitudes in southern summer - and this would happen abruptly one day when the sun just "changed gears"
The subsequent ellipses drawn in the southern sky would make it draw little, flat rings, never reaching the eastern or western points at higher latitudes or, in the northwestern or northeastern latitudes, these circles would be in the eastern or western sky respectively


I would very much like to hear the explanation if this from the proponents of the bipolar model. I would like to have continued this discussion in the thread in question, but I thought it would be better to start a new topic dedicated to this very special area of study.

Does this represent the beliefs of the flat earth proponents? If not, what are the competing models?

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Flat Earth Theory / The Wall

« on: April 03, 2017, 07:36:49 PM »

In the Flat Earth theory, the world is ringed by a giant wall of ice. It cannot be traversed and anyone who approaches it is met by resistance from a conspiratorial border patrol.

So what are the dimensions of this ice wall that surrounds the disc?
Has anyone circumnavigated it?
If not, how has its coastline been drawn on Flat Earth maps?
Also if not, how do we know it is contiguous around the entire circumference?

I'd love to talk to someone who has actually seen it too.

Stay scientific - government conspiracies aside, if one is going to assert it is there then it must have been observed somehow.

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Flat Earth Theory / Conspiracy theories and Occam's Razor

« on: April 03, 2017, 06:45:00 AM »

One of the primary concepts behind the Flat Earth theory is Occam's Razor - that the simplest explanation is to be preferred over the more complex.

Now, it seems that every explanation of Flat Earth theory seems to revolve around a global conspiracy of deception, disbelief amd disinformation  (to complete the Ciceronian triplet.)
Last time I checked, the world's nations had a really hard time talking to each other about the simplest things, let alone the extremely complex orchestration that would go into creating a centuries-long, world-spanning  conspiracies to keep the public misinformed.

That doesn't seem particularly simple.

What I would like to know is the simple explanations that don't rely on the fact that millions of people are lying to you.
Start swinging that razor, guys, and give us some simplicity that doesn't rely on the assumption that everyone is against you.

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Flat Earth Theory / Have you been to the southern/outer latitudes?

« on: April 03, 2017, 06:26:16 AM »

More of a survey than a debate, but open to debate, as all topics are in this forum.

The Flat Earth Theory seems to be a nothern/inner latitude thing. Far fewer people outside North America seem to subscribe to it and I would like to see what kind of proportion actually presents on this forum.

Have you been to any country below/outside the equator?
If so, have your observations matched your respective assertions?
If not, how do you justify making said assertions without firsthand observations?

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Flat Earth Theory / The Umbrella Model

« on: April 03, 2017, 06:14:26 AM »

A visualisation of the Flat Earth star model:

Take an umbrella - black is preferable for illustration purposes.
Colour the ends of the spokes white, or for ease of viewing attach ping pong balls or stickers to the ends of the spokes. You can string more between the spokes too if you want more stars for reference.

Stick the umbrella in the ground so it's shaft can spin freely - this is analogous to the Flat and Dual Earth celestial disc.
If you lie directly underneath the umbrella and spin it around, you will see the ends of the spokes trace circles above your head.
This is what the stars look like from the north pole/hub
Shift your perspective towards the outside of the umbrella but keep the spin axis the same - all the stars are still visible but they appear to trace ellipses. This doesn't match what is seen in the skies.

Now this time attach the balls or stickers to the inside of the umbrella so they curve upwards in a hemisphere. This is analogous to the celestial sphere in the Spherical Earth framework.
When watching from underneath, the balls seem to revolve around a common point once again like they would from the north pole. They trace circles again. But by tilting your head to see what they would look like from different points on a sphere, they still trace circles, just like they do from lower latitudes.
Alternatively you can also tilt the angle of the umbrella while keeping your head still relative to the shaft of the umbrella.

The Spherical model matches what is observed, the Disc model does not.

Discuss.

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Flat Earth Theory / Flat Cosmogony

« on: April 02, 2017, 07:09:57 PM »

I have a few questions about the universe according to the Flat Earth theory, but I'll start with a broad prompt for debate.

The Spherical standpoint is that it accreted over millions of years from a huge collection of rock, gas and ice surrounding the nascent sun, in the same way the planets did with varying results. Subsequent impacts from various left over pieces from its formation shaped it and, thanks to a huge impact from a particularly large piece of rock, gave us a moon.

What is the Flat Earth version of events?

And I'd prefer science to religion.
I'd like to keep this out of the math book vs holy book realm. Stay rational.

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Flat Earth Theory / Sigma Octantis, The Other Pole Star

« on: April 02, 2017, 06:54:35 PM »

This is a cross post from another Flat Earth forum, since i havent been able to glean anything useful there. Im hoping you guys can help.

The Flat Earth Theory seems to be a predominantly nothern/inner latitudes thing - most of its proponents live in North America. This is evident from the north-centric views of the Flat Earth.
Trouble is, from the perspective of someone who had lived most of their life in southern/outer latitudes, most of what is said doesn't really wash.
The prime example of this is Sigma Octantis, the southern pole star.

In the northern/inner areas of Earth, the stars appear to wheel around the star known as Polaris - it's brightness and proximity to the celestial pole make it perfect for determining true north. It is almost a fixed point in the sky, and this would be true in both Flat and Spherical scenarios.
However, in the outer latitudes of the Flat Earth theory, there would be no pole star and we would see the stars flying overhead much faster that near the centre of the disc.
This is not the case.

Instead, the southern latitudes have their own pole star, Sigma Octantis, around which all the stars circle. They also circle at the same rate as those in the northern/inner latitudes - something that would be impossible if viewed from a disc.
An object with two poles is necessarily 3 dimensional.

So I would like to hear the Flat Earth explanation for this.
Diagrams and animations encouraged.

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Flat Earth Theory / The Solar System

« on: April 02, 2017, 06:26:21 PM »

So I would like to see a model of the Solar System according to the Flat Earth theory which accommodates the motions observed of the stars and planets. To date I am yet to see even a mostly inaccurate model beyond the "yin yang" sun and moon model of the passage of day and night, so I'd like to see the rest of the cosmology according to the Flat Earth Society.