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Messages - Tom Bishop

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1
Those graphs are a hot mess. You might want to get a better ones. I don't remember 2019 being when Covid started:



And why is it suggesting that there was Covid in 2015?

And why is Total Excluding Covid higher than Total Including Covid? Total Including Covid suggests that it contains everything and should be higher. Nonsense.

If the blue increase is supposed to represent an increase in non-Covid deaths then it just illustrates the point that there were a general increase in deaths that the excess Covid deaths can be attributed to if they were erroneously counted. But again, those graphs don't make much sense. It is unsurprising that you are promoting them.

2
It keeps going around and around because you neglect to account for the deaths that were up generally during the pandemic, which taints your argument. People were delaying medical care due to fear that they would get Covid in the hospital or clinic, as stated by a source several pages ago.

https://www.nwpb.org/2020/11/25/further-proof-that-2020-stinks-more-people-are-dying-during-the-pandemic-not-just-from-covid/



If those excess Covid deaths are erroneously counted, then they may be attributed to the general increase in excess deaths that we know existed as the time. This other factor of a general increase of deaths during the pandemic ruins your argument.

3
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 20, 2021, 10:25:29 PM »
England is miscounting in the same way as the US and Canada:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/916035/RA_Technical_Summary_-_PHE_Data_Series_COVID_19_Deaths_20200812.pdf



Related article about miscounting in England:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/21/analysis-why-englands-covid-19-death-toll-is-wrong-but-not-by-much

Quote
Following the health secretary’s move on Friday, Yoon K Loke and Carl Heneghan, of the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine at Oxford University, wrote in a blogpost: “It seems that PHE regularly looks for people on the NHS database who have ever tested positive, and simply checks to see if they are still alive or not. PHE does not appear to consider how long ago the Covid test result was, nor whether the person has been successfully treated in hospital and discharged to the community.”

A Department of Health and Social Care source summed this up as: “You could have been tested positive in February, have no symptoms, then be hit by a bus in July and you’d be recorded as a Covid death.”

When the Guardian put this to a source at PHE, they said that such a scenario would “technically” be counted as a coronavirus death, “though the numbers where that situation would apply are likely to be very small”. PHE says it calculates deaths in this way because, in most circumstances, it cannot dismiss the possibility that Covid-19 could have played a role in the death.

Except for the fact that people die every week in England by the thousands from all sorts of different causes, not just busses.  ::)

A professor argues in favor of the method:

Quote
Speaking at a meeting of the Independent Sage committee, Prof Christina Pagel, a professor of operational research at UCL, said: “If someone [got Covid-19] in mid-March, recovered early April, the chances of them then dying from something completely different in the last couple of months is quite low. So I don’t think it has caused a massive distortion.”

Uh, no. People are consistently dying in large numbers every day by things that are not Covid. If large numbers of people are getting asymptomatic Covid, this counting method is faulty. What an idiot. This is either stupidity or deliberate evil.

4
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 20, 2021, 07:54:07 PM »
Nevada's current guidelines for Covid deaths as of July 12, 2021:

https://dpbh.nv.gov/uploadedFiles/dpbhnvgov/content/Programs/OPHIE/Docs/COVID-Death-Definition.pdf

Quote
Updates were made July 12, 2021

~

COVID-19 Death:
• Decedents with a positive PCR COVID-19 lab report (≤ 30 days from death or post-mortem)
• Decedents with a death certificate that lists a COVID-19-related term as a cause of death in Part I and have a
history of a positive PCR COVID-19 lab report
     •  COVID-related terms include names for COVID-19, such as SARS-CoV-2, coronavirus, coronavirus-19, etc.
• Decedents with a pending cause of death that had a positive PCR lab test within 30 days of death AND
symptoms indicative of COVID-19 (per investigation or medical report)
• Decedents with a death certificate that does not specifically list a COVID-19-related term that had a positive PCR
lab result ≤ 30 days before death and/or died within 30 days of COVID-19 symptom onset AND died in a manner
of death deemed to be ‘natural’ on the death certificate
• Exception: Deaths due to non-natural causes (e.g. accidental, intentional self-harm, homicide) should not be
counted as a COVID-19 death even if the deceased had a confirmatory positive lab test within 30 days of death

So anyone who was dying of end stage cancer, heart attack, end stage liver disease, etc, but who has had a positive Covid test in the past 30 days is counted as a Covid death.

Is there any justification for this? They have changed the way deaths are reported. This is not done for other diseases.

https://americanmind.org/salvo/a-covid-death-the-bureaucracy-decides/



Author:


6
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 20, 2021, 06:10:51 PM »
Peter Evans didn't say they were reporting deaths that way. Toronto Public Health did.

Also, it's not the celebrity chef Peter Evans in the comments:

https://twitter.com/peteevans66?lang=en


7
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 20, 2021, 05:46:46 PM »
The same misreporting has been occurring in Canada. What a coincidence.


8
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 20, 2021, 04:34:18 PM »
Additional evidence that they have made special rules for counting Covid deaths, differing from how other diseases are counted.

From a former death certificate clerk:

https://americanmind.org/salvo/a-covid-death-the-bureaucracy-decides/

Quote
Inside America’s mortality misinformation crisis.

I’m a former death certificate clerk. I’ve spent nearly 7 years in the funeral home industry and processed thousands of death certificates. I’m appalled that death certificate data is codified for use as our national mortality statistics.

~

COVID Death Reporting

But there was a change made this past year. Not a data capture reform for all the erroneous death diagnoses, and not even a data capture reform to improve reporting for all the infections that significantly impact our health before death. The CDC’s National Vital Statistics System (NVSS) rolled out the data capture red carpet for one—and only one—disease-causing pathogen: SARS-CoV-2.

On March 24th, 2020, only 11 days after the first pandemic-related lockdown started, and well before widespread testing was available, the NVSS gave hand-holding guidance to the medical certifiers, local registrars, and mortality statistics coders on precisely how they ought to spotlight COVID-19 as the underlying cause of death on death certificates. They boldly declared that COVID should be the underlying cause on a death certificate “more often than not,” even without laboratory confirmation of infection.  When they created this COVID alert in March, and followed up by releasing this COVID death recording guidance a few days later, we couldn’t have possibly had enough country-specific statistics to justify such a drastic departure in coding COVID deaths, compared to how other infectious disease fatalities are recorded.

So the NVSS actually dictated a belief to the community of death certificate medical certifiers and vital records registrars—our cause-of-death approval gatekeepers—before having any reasonable disease surveillance infrastructure established to support their claim of probability of undiagnosed COVID being the cause of death, greatly amplifying the perception of COVID mortality. This may have been against federal law on data collection changes, as this peer-reviewed research paper suggests: “Federal agencies that make changes to how they collect, publish, and analyze data without alerting the Federal Register and OMB [Office of Management and Budget] as a result are in violation of federal law.”

Furthermore, their COVID-19 death certifying guidance changed longstanding death certification protocols when it declared: “…reporting ‘COVID–19’due to ‘chronic obstructive pulmonary disease’ in Part I would be an illogical sequence as COPD cannot cause an infection, although it may increase susceptibility to or exacerbate an infection. In this instance, COVID–19 would be reported in Part I as the UCOD [underlying cause of death] and the COPD in Part II [as the contributory factor].”

The UCOD on a death certificate is what’s reported and tallied in our national mortality statistics as the reason that the death occurred. It is found on the last line of Part 1 on a death certificate.  What needs to be provided for a death certificate is a logical sequence of conditions that explain why the death has occurred, not a logical sequence as to why an infection has occurred. So relegating an important chronic condition that logically explains why someone has died of an infection that most people survive is a drastic departure from previous cause-of-death guidance.

Previously, the pre-existing condition that made a patient susceptible to death from an infection (i.e., quadriplegia, stroke (cerebrovascular accident), HIV or cystic fibrosis) was subsequently tallied in our mortality statistics as the reason for the death. But the new COVID-19 guidance advises the exact opposite: medical certifiers are now to report the infection as the UCOD and tally it in our mortality statistics, while simultaneously demoting the underlying chronic condition (e.g., COPD) into a section of the death certificate that doesn’t impact mortality statistics and holds less sway in science, medicine, public health and law.

Reporting death in this way foregrounds short term COVID illness as the cause of death, instead of reporting the underlying chronic illness as we have done in the past. This is another way how COVID mortality is being artificially amplified over any other cause of death.

Finally, yet another biased standard of boosting COVID mortality specific to this year’s very odd death tallying was PCR testing for SARS-CoV-2 carriage performed after death, including on people whose cause of death was suicide or car accidents and obviously not COVID-related at all. Testing for pathogen carriage after accidental death would have never been performed  in the past. Similarly, any at-home deaths that used to be chalked up to “atherosclerotic heart disease” without any investigation were now presumed COVID deaths. And nursing home clusters of deaths in the elderly—which, by the way, I used to regularly witness multiple times a year in my capacity as a death recording clerk from 2013 to 2019—were now opportunities to swab the dead to contribute to the COVID death toll in 2020, even without evidence of symptoms in the deceased.

As I mentioned previously, deaths that occurred in nursing homes and under hospice care almost always were attributed to the chronic condition that explained their decline in health—regardless of what final infection they suffered from…until now.

9
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Terrible Political Memes
« on: September 17, 2021, 08:41:25 PM »

10
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 17, 2021, 09:29:20 AM »
You're still missing the point: Would these kids, in your RI example, not have died if they didn't have Covid?

It would certainly need to be demonstrated explicitly that Covid contributed to their disease, as many cases of Covid are asymptomatic. If it's "fuzzy" or "unclear" and "maybe" is involved then it means you don't have the evidence to stroke fears to support your pandemic among the sickly and should probably just refrain from screaming fear to the media and focus on the research.

We have a pandemic where people are "maybe" dying of the disease.  ::)

Considerong the high level of comorbidities in the deaths it's obvious that you can't show that this disease is really that dangerous on its own and need to pull in other diseases to help you, in a manufactured argument of possible contributions to unrelated diseases. Is this how Polio and the Bubonic Plague worked?

11
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 17, 2021, 07:01:47 AM »
That's an easy one. The person died of the mechanism of sepsis, but died of a disease called cancer. Two different things. No one is confusing "sepsis deaths" as the disease they died from.

In the case of people with multiple diseases, it's usually clear that they died of one thing as the primary disease of death. If another disease may or may not have been contributing, and it's vague, obviously just note it down for further research and don't make that data part of a sensational article claiming a pandemic of epic proportions and scream for worldwide economic shutdowns.

12
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 17, 2021, 05:03:27 AM »
It's possible to figure out the primary cause of someone's death. They figured it out for these children:

https://www.golocalprov.com/news/3-children-with-covid-have-now-died-in-ri-state-has-3rd-highest-rate-in-u.s



If Covid is not the primary cause of death, why list it and publicize it as a Covid death and put it in State records as a Covid death and broadcast it all over the television in a Covid death segment other than for political or scare-tactic reasons? This is duplicitous, unethical behavior.

If they do want to collect secondary conditions they could just be honest about it and break it down instead of presenting it as "Covid Deaths". Presenting it as "Covid Deaths" leads one to assume that it was the lethal primary cause of death. But seeing the statistics of people who died of Cancer with asymptomatic Covid isn't sensational enough for their dirty agenda.

13
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 17, 2021, 03:44:31 AM »
Did you even read your quote? She relented and wanted to cut out the gunshot victims and motor vehicle accidents but keep anything else slightly biological.

You stumble into the hospital extremely overweight, have stage 4 cancer, high cholesterol and a heart attack? Covid, obviously. You're an Illinois Covid victim. This is just more affirmation on what they're doing. The quote literally says that they aren't putting controls on it outside of the 'obvious' gunshot victims.

It doesn't matter if it was a year ago. If the statistics have been wrong for a year that's pretty bad.

14
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 17, 2021, 03:08:56 AM »
So it took news articles and national embarrassment to get them to remove it. It was only found out by the reporters because the victim was a special coronavirus victim in their 20's and the motorcycle crash was inadvertently mentioned to the reporters by a doctor, the Orange County Health Officer, who absurdly proceeded to defend it. I consider the action of backtracking on your lies to be irrelevant. I can see that you are pretty desperate though.

Health officials are clearly stating that they consider it to be a Covid death even if there is a clear alternate cause:

https://week.com/2020/04/20/idph-director-explains-how-covid-deaths-are-classified/

Quote
IDPH Director explains how Covid deaths are classified

Still, the department's Director, Dr. Ngozi Ezike used part of her time during Sunday's health briefing to explain how the department determines if a death is related to Coronavirus.

Essentially, Dr. Ezike explained that anyone who passes away after testing positive for the virus is included in that category.

"If you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means technically even if you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it's still listed as a COVID death. So, everyone who's listed as a COVID death doesn't mean that that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of the death." Dr. Ezike outlined.

She reiterated Illinois health officials will continue to work vigorously to protect the state's most vulnerable populations.

The Illinois Department of Public Health says directly how it works. Not a coincidence that it's happening in multiple states and they are attributing it to CDC guidance.

15
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 17, 2021, 02:16:23 AM »
Colorado:

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2020/12/17/in-colorado-theyre-counting-gun-shot-fatalities-as-covid-deaths-n2581730

Quote
"The coroner, Brenda Bock, says two of their five deaths related to COVID-19 were people who died of gunshot wounds," CBS News Denver reports. "Bock says because they tested positive for COVID-19 within the past 30 days, they were classified as 'deaths among cases.'"

Minnesota:

https://www.lexingtonchronicle.com/news/how-accurate-are-covid-death-reports

Quote
Minnesota Rep. Mary Franson and Sen. Scott Jensen believe the covid death count was inflated. They said they found covid blamed for deaths from falls, a drowning, dementia, stroke and multi-organ failure. Rep. Franson said a man ejected in a car accident was “counted as a covid death” because the virus was in his system.

Florida; a non-hypothetical motorcycle accident counted as a Covid death this time:

https://cbs12.com/news/local/man-who-died-in-motorcycle-crash-counted-as-covid-19-death-in-florida-report

Quote
ORLANDO, Fla. (CBS12) — A man who died in a motorcycle crash was counted as a COVID-19 death in Florida, according to a new report from FOX 35 Orlando.

According to the report, Orange County Health Officer Dr. Raul Pino was asked whether two coronavirus victims in their 20s had any underlying medical conditions that could have potentially made them more susceptible to the virus.

Pino's answer was that one of the two people who was listed as a COVID death actually died in a motorcycle crash. Despite health officials knowing the man died in a motorcycle crash, it is unclear whether or not his death was removed from the overall count in the state.

Dr. Pino tells FOX 35 that one "could actually argue that it could have been the COVID-19 that caused him to crash."

lol

16
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 17, 2021, 01:26:53 AM »
Quote from: Shifter
Loved the way you cherry picked that article to suit a narrative you like to tell.

Cherry picked? I posted a whole bunch of them from other areas and people saying the same thing. See the red bolded quote from Illinois Department of Public Health in the second quote here which spells it out for you:

Dr. Birx says the same:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/04/08/dr_birx_unlike_some_countries_if_someone_dies_with_covid-19_we_are_counting_that_as_a_covid-19_death.html

Quote
Dr. Birx: Unlike Some Countries, "If Someone Dies With COVID-19 We Are Counting That As A COVID-19 Death"

At Tuesday's White House coronavirus press conference, task force member Dr. Deborah Birx said that while some countries are reporting coronavirus fatality numbers differently, in the U.S. you are counted as a victim of the pandemic if you die while testing positive for the virus, even if something else causes your death.

DR. DEBORAH BIRX: "So, I think in this country we've taken a very liberal approach to mortality. And I think the reporting here has been pretty straightforward over the last five to six weeks. Prior to that when there wasn't testing in January and February that's a very different situation and unknown.

There are other countries that if you had a preexisting condition and let's say the virus caused you to go to the ICU and then have a heart or kidney problem some countries are recording as a heart issue or a kidney issue and not a COVID-19 death. Right now we are still recording it and we will I mean the great thing about having forms that come in and a form that has the ability to market as COVID-19 infection the intent is right now that those if someone dies with COVID-19 we are counting that as a COVID-19 death."

Illinois Department of Public Health said they count the same way:

https://week.com/2020/04/20/idph-director-explains-how-covid-deaths-are-classified/

Quote
IDPH Director explains how Covid deaths are classified

Still, the department's Director, Dr. Ngozi Ezike used part of her time during Sunday's health briefing to explain how the department determines if a death is related to Coronavirus.

Essentially, Dr. Ezike explained that anyone who passes away after testing positive for the virus is included in that category.

"If you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means technically even if you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it's still listed as a COVID death. So, everyone who's listed as a COVID death doesn't mean that that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of the death." Dr. Ezike outlined.

She reiterated Illinois health officials will continue to work vigorously to protect the state's most vulnerable populations.

Lots of quotes and examples here:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/as-u-s-coronavirus-death-toll-mounts-so-does-the-belief-it-is-exaggerated

Quote
“I think a lot of clinicians are putting that condition (COVID-19) on death certificates when it might not be accurate because they died with coronavirus and not of coronavirus,” Macomb County, Mich., Chief Medical Examiner Daniel Spitz in an interview with the Ann Arbor News last month.

...

Colorado counted a man who a county coroner said died of acute alcohol poisoning as a COVID-19 death.

Montezuma County Coroner George Deavers told the Durango Herald the man’s blood-alcohol level was 0.55, or almost seven times the legal driving limit of 0.08 in Colorado. A BAC of 0.3 is considered lethal.

“COVID was not listed on the death certificate as the cause of death,” Deavers said, the paper reported Wednesday. “I disagree with the state for listing it as a COVID death, and will be discussing it with them this week.”

...

News reports have identified the man as Sebastian Yellow, 35, and reported that he was found dead by police May 4.

The Montezuma County Public Health Department also was refusing to report Yellow's death as a COVID-19 death. “The state is reporting that death as a COVID death, but our health department wanted to let people know that even though the person did have the virus, they did not die from it,” the agency said.

In response to a request for comment about Yellow’s death, the Colorado Department of Health told KCNC-TV that it classifies a death as confirmed when there is a positive SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) laboratory test.


...

Last month, the same agency reclassified three deaths at a Centennial nursing home as COVID-19 deaths, challenging the findings of attending physicians who ruled the deaths were unrelated to the virus.

The deaths occurred at Someren Glen, where four other residents died of COVID-19. The state has now recorded all seven deaths as COVID-19 deaths.

“We have never seen a situation where the health department overrules a physician’s findings,” Tim Rogers, the facility’s executive director, told KCNC. “However, these are unprecedented times and the health department official did not share their motivation for changing physician’s orders.”

A health department spokesman told the station of those deaths that the agency was following CDC guidance.

Yeah, super scientific stuff here. The Illinois Department of Public Health says that "even if you died from a clear alternative cause" they will count you as a Covid death. An in-your-face statement that tells you that you're wrong on this.
 
Diabetes death:

https://www.summitdaily.com/news/covid-19-was-not-the-primary-cause-of-death-for-silverthorne-man/

Quote
On April 11, Summit County announced the death of a Silverthorne man in his 60s, who tested positive for the novel coronavirus after his death. On Friday, Summit County Coroner Regan Wood said the man had undiagnosed diabetes and suffered a diabetic ketoacidosis event that resulted in his death. The man also had coronary artery disease, which is related to the diabetes.

While the new coronavirus was not the primary cause of death, it is being listed as a “significant other condition” at the time of death, according to Wood. Because of that, the man still will be counted among the state’s COVID-19 deaths.

They're even doing it to children:

https://www.golocalprov.com/news/3-children-with-covid-have-now-died-in-ri-state-has-3rd-highest-rate-in-u.s


17
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 16, 2021, 10:39:49 PM »
Quote from: Shifter
I know Tom loves to get his news from random social media memes or Cucker Tarlson but the claim that people who die in traffic accidents but tested positive for covid recently are being counted in the covid death toll is complete and utter BS

Yet that's how Oregon Health Authority is reporting the deaths, and claim that they are following CDC guidance:

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/investigations/questions-over-the-accuracy-of-how-the-state-tracks-covid-deaths/283-0b1b7b6c-695e-4313-92cf-a4cfd7510721

Quote
According to the Oregon Health Authority (OHA), there is no difference when it comes to tracking and reporting COVID deaths. OHA spokesman Jonathan Modie explained in an email how the state determines what is counted as a COVID-19 death:

We consider COVID-19 deaths to be:

Deaths in which a patient hospitalized for any reason within 14 days of a positive COVID-19 test result dies in the hospital or within the 60 days following discharge.

Deaths in which COVID-19 is listed as a primary or contributing cause of death on a death certificate.

We count COVID-19 deaths this way because the virus can often have effects on an individual’s health that may complicate their recovery from other diseases and conditions, even injuries, and indirectly contribute to their death. Another reason is because OHA is using this data to track the spread of the disease, and to create actionable steps for stopping its spread.


So what does that policy mean in practice? We asked Modie about a hypothetical case where someone died from a motorcycle crash and also had COVID-19. Would that be counted as a COVID-19 death?

“It would be,” Modie explained. “But I must go back to the point about how we used this data, which is to help us track how COVID-19 is spread in the community.”

He added that the state follows the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) guidelines for reporting deaths.

18
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 16, 2021, 08:09:27 PM »
People over 60 are more likely to have chronic comorbidities. 2% of them are sick enough to be susceptible to this. Not too surprising. As you pass 60 your life expectancy goes down. Talk to some older people about their friends dying in their advancing age.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr47/nvs47_28.pdf

See "Figure 3. Percent surviving by age: Death-registration States, 1900–1902 and United States, 1949–51 and 1997" -



Pretty big drop there between ages 60 and 90, as compared to ages 0 to 30 or from ages 30 to 60.

The fact remains that this is a disease that affects sick people.

Again, an incredibly weak argument. The people pushing this are either stupid or evil. No grey area.

19
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 16, 2021, 07:15:43 PM »
Hmm. Yes, I think it’s probably best not to feed Troll and Troller. But for all their attempts to divert, the data I’ve presented on the impact of Covid is pretty clear. As is the cherry picking dishonesty required to arrive at the “99.7%” survival rate.

Incorrect. You are the one cherry picking, by telling us that we need to only look at the survival rate for the critically ill. Not everyone is very ill. The survival rate is very high for the general population. The people dying of this are the sick and feeble. From your own source:

https://fsph.iupui.edu/news-events/news/death-rate-covid-statewide-study.html

Quote
Nursing home residents represented 54.9% of Indiana’s deaths at this date.

Using the non-institutionalized population, researchers determined the overall IFR for Indiana to be 0.26%.

The IFR for Hoosiers who are 12 to 40 years old is 0.01% (children under 12 were not included in the study). That rate increases to 0.12% for those who are 40 to 59 years old.

IFR = Infection Fatality Rate

0.26% IFR = 99.74 survival rate for non-institutionalized
0.01% IFR = 99.99 survival rate for ages 12 to 40
0.12% IFR = 99.88 survival rate for ages 40 to 59

Arguing that the sick people and old people are people too and so we should all vaxx up with vaccines that have no long term safety data just seems like disingenuousness on your part, and probably a bit of vaccine regret there. Those people who are dying are also susceptible to die of plenty of other almost harmless diseases that we don't have worldwide lockdowns over, including the primary ailments they are sick with. Sick and old people die. That's how life works. Stop being a priss about it. The level of justification is very weak.

20
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: September 16, 2021, 05:35:16 PM »
AATW: Yeah guys Covid is just like this <almost harmless disease that only kills sick people>, we need to be super afraid of it!

::)

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