Show me proof of a flat earth.
« on: January 15, 2014, 05:32:30 PM »
Show me your proof, and I will argue for the sake of arguing.
I don't even care to find out what you're doing wrong, but I'm sure you're doing something wrong.

Thork

Re: Show me proof of a flat earth.
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2014, 07:37:11 PM »
Read Earth Not a Globe by Samuel Rowbotham.

What a lazy OP.

Re: Show me proof of a flat earth.
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2014, 08:12:03 PM »
Show me your proof, and I will argue for the sake of arguing.
Look out a window. I recommend doing this while on an airplane for the best results, but even a rather tall building will work. The Earth will appear, minus a few negligible bumps and whatnot, to be flat. Hence, we should assume it is flat until we can find evidence otherwise. So this is the point where we turn the question back to you: Can you provide proof of a round earth?
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Re: Show me proof of a flat earth.
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2014, 08:13:55 PM »
Looking out a window has been shown many times to be an insufficient method of determining the roundness or flatness of the Earth on the two most prevalent competing models.
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Offline Tintagel

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Re: Show me proof of a flat earth.
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2014, 08:25:56 PM »
There is ample evidence of a flat earth.  Use your eyes. 

The lack of evidence, in my experience, is on the spherical earth side.  "The eye can't perceive the curvature because it's too gradual" sounds good and all, but isn't it easier to simply call it what it is?  Flat.

Every locally observable piece of 'evidence' for a spherical earth could just as easily apply to a flat one.  I simply prefer to call things as I see them.

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Re: Show me proof of a flat earth.
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2014, 08:41:49 PM »
There is ample evidence of a flat earth.  Use your eyes. 

The lack of evidence, in my experience, is on the spherical earth side.  "The eye can't perceive the curvature because it's too gradual" sounds good and all, but isn't it easier to simply call it what it is?  Flat.

Every locally observable piece of 'evidence' for a spherical earth could just as easily apply to a flat one.  I simply prefer to call things as I see them.

Your eyes are incapable of perceiving the curvature predicted by the RE model.  End of story.  It does not falsify a RE.
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Offline bj1234

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Re: Show me proof of a flat earth.
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2014, 08:44:05 PM »
There is ample evidence of a flat earth.  Use your eyes. 

The lack of evidence, in my experience, is on the spherical earth side.  "The eye can't perceive the curvature because it's too gradual" sounds good and all, but isn't it easier to simply call it what it is?  Flat.

Every locally observable piece of 'evidence' for a spherical earth could just as easily apply to a flat one.  I simply prefer to call things as I see them.
What about the "globular" or "planar" pieces of evidence?  Which model do those support?

Re: Show me proof of a flat earth.
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2014, 09:00:28 PM »
Looking out a window has been shown many times to be an insufficient method of determining the roundness or flatness of the Earth on the two most prevalent competing models.
I'm hardly claiming it to be the end-all and be-all of proof for the shape of the earth. However, if observation leads us to one conclusion, and there is a model refuting that conclusion, we would need evidence in support of that model.
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Re: Show me proof of a flat earth.
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2014, 09:04:42 PM »
Looking out a window is not proof.  If I assumed everything about the earth by looking out my window, I would have to assume there are no deserts, or volcanoes, or glaciers, or kangaroos.
I don't even care to find out what you're doing wrong, but I'm sure you're doing something wrong.

Thork

Re: Show me proof of a flat earth.
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2014, 10:41:56 PM »
Looking out a window is not proof.  If I assumed everything about the earth by looking out my window, I would have to assume there are no deserts, or volcanoes, or glaciers, or kangaroos.
You will never come to the conclusion that earth is round by looking out of your window. It will appear flat from any window in any part of the world. Please stop taking the conversation off topic with talk of kangaroos and volcanoes.

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Re: Show me proof of a flat earth.
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2014, 11:38:49 PM »
Looking out a window is not proof.  If I assumed everything about the earth by looking out my window, I would have to assume there are no deserts, or volcanoes, or glaciers, or kangaroos.
You will never come to the conclusion that earth is round by looking out of your window. It will appear flat from any window in any part of the world. Please stop taking the conversation off topic with talk of kangaroos and volcanoes.

Its a perfectly valid criticism of the vaunted, yet flawed "look out your window" school of thought. If I look out my window it is quite hilly; how am I to infer flatness from that?  How am I to falsify an oblate spheroid with an approximate diameter of 12,700kms?  "Looking out your window" is not a proof that the Earth is flat.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Show me proof of a flat earth.
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2014, 04:58:19 AM »
Looking out a window is not proof.  If I assumed everything about the earth by looking out my window, I would have to assume there are no deserts, or volcanoes, or glaciers, or kangaroos.

Yes, but you did not believe in kangaroos until you saw picture/video evidence of one as a child. You did not automatically believe in kangaroos before seeing evidence of one.

Re: Show me proof of a flat earth.
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2014, 05:24:19 AM »
I have seen picture/video evidence of a round earth.  If pics/vids of kangaroos is enough to believe in kangaroos, it's enough to believe in a round earth.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Show me proof of a flat earth.
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2014, 05:49:27 AM »
I have seen picture/video evidence of a round earth.  If pics/vids of kangaroos is enough to believe in kangaroos, it's enough to believe in a round earth.

So then, you believe in a round earth only because an organization founded by Nazi war criminals showed you an image of one. I see.

Re: Show me proof of a flat earth.
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2014, 05:59:13 AM »
That's not my only reason, but the point of that was to argue against the validity of dismissing photo evidence.  If you can simply photo evidence of a round earth, I can dismiss photo evidence of a kangaroo.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Show me proof of a flat earth.
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2014, 08:57:47 AM »
That's not my only reason, but the point of that was to argue against the validity of dismissing photo evidence.  If you can simply photo evidence of a round earth, I can dismiss photo evidence of a kangaroo.

The photographic evidence of the Kangaroo creature would be discredited if the originator was a criminal, and photographs from that source have been demonstrated to be fraudulent. That would leave you back to where you started: Kangaroos do not exist.


« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 09:05:27 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Re: Show me proof of a flat earth.
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2014, 11:18:55 AM »
NASA was not started by rocket scientists, it employed rocket scientists; NASA was started by President Eisenhower. The preceding agency predates the Nazi movement. This claim
Is specious and misleading. Many of the rocket scientists working for NASA were nazis yes, but in what sense were they war criminals?  Were they convicted as such?  For what war crimes?  Please cite evidence. Not every Nazi is a war criminal, and developing rockets is not a war crime.

Even if they were war criminals, why would that mean photos of the Earth are faked?  This is the genetic fallacy in action.

On faked photos: NASA is very clear when photos are composites, but that does not help your case since a composite of a dozen photos of a round Earth means there are 12 photos that need to be falsified. Perhaps we can cut to the chase?  Can you show that every photo of a round Earth is a fake? Only one photo if a round Earth is needed to falsify a flat Earth.

EDIT: Is there a source for the computer enhanced photos in the video you posted?  I would like to look in to that.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 11:44:00 AM by Rama Set »
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Offline Antonio

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Re: Show me proof of a flat earth.
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2014, 11:45:23 AM »
That's not my only reason, but the point of that was to argue against the validity of dismissing photo evidence.  If you can simply photo evidence of a round earth, I can dismiss photo evidence of a kangaroo.

The photographic evidence of the Kangaroo creature would be discredited if the originator was a criminal, and photographs from that source have been demonstrated to be fraudulent. That would leave you back to where you started: Kangaroos do not exist.



Let's start from scratch.
Please take the original picture AS11_44_6642 (LEM, moon and earth) and give us the step by step procedure used to reveal the fraud.
Photoshop should be a good tool for that.

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Re: Show me proof of a flat earth.
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2014, 12:04:07 PM »
That's a fairly unreasonable request. I asked him to produce the primary source for the computer enhanced photos. This should be vetted first. It is unreasonable to expect Tom to have an expertise in forensic photo analysis.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Show me proof of a flat earth.
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2014, 03:46:54 PM »
NASA was not started by rocket scientists, it employed rocket scientists; NASA was started by President Eisenhower. The preceding agency predates the Nazi movement. This claim Is specious and misleading.

One of Hitler's top ranking SS officers was made director of NASA, and oversaw the entire Saturn and Apollo programs. Other Nazis also held high ranking positions in NASA.

They were made managers of NASA, not merely 'rocket scientists'.

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Many of the rocket scientists working for NASA were nazis yes, but in what sense were they war criminals?  Were they convicted as such?  For what war crimes?  Please cite evidence. Not every Nazi is a war criminal, and developing rockets is not a war crime.

Slave labor and mistreatment of prisoners are absolutely war crimes.

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Even if they were war criminals, why would that mean photos of the Earth are faked?  This is the genetic fallacy in action.

I don't see how it is a fallacy that an organization is discredited because it is operated by criminals.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 04:29:26 PM by Tom Bishop »