[Action80]

Hey, Brandon said Hunter was better than him...

[Tom Bishop]

Sounds like Biden is corrupt to me.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12320527/RELEASED-FBI-document-detailing-alleged-10M-Biden-bribery-scheme-publicized-Republicans-Burisma-CEO-Zlochevsky-called-Hunter-stupid-necessary-board-dad-Vice-President-Joe-Biden-protect-problems.html

[ichoosereality]

One might want to be cautious about using the Daily Mail for a source:

https://www.lse.ac.uk/granthaminstitute/news/daily-mail-still-not-taking-climate-change-seriously/  says

The ‘Daily Mail’ has a long track record of promoting climate change denial. Its coverage of climate change before and after COP26 has been no exception.

Although it is the most widely-read newspaper in the UK, the ‘Daily Mail’ has a reputation for publishing inaccurate and misleading information. For instance, in 2017, Wikipedia’s editors concluded that there is “established consensus that the Daily Mail was not a reliable source, and that its use in most Wikipedia articles was prohibited”.

[Tom Bishop]

Daily Mail didn't fabricate those FBI documents. It says the documents were recently authorized for release from the US Congress.



The type of criticism you are referring to is certain editorial slants on the content such as saying "Bombastic" and "Bombshell" when it is really not that Bombastic since the information was already largely known.

[ichoosereality]

The screen shots are reports from a Confidential Human Source about claims of conversations between others claiming things.  Maybe its true, but its also here-say.   It also talks about the head of Bursima using the fact that Hunter was on their board in his conversations with others in a "hey you know how we have on our board" sort of tactic, but no proof that that path was actually employed.  Maybe, but no evidence showing that as yet anyway.

[Tom Bishop]

If you argument is going to be essentially "yeah, the reporting is true, people were attesting to those things against Joe Biden" then I'm not sure why you jumped into denial mode to attack the source. They claimed that they received evidence that people were saying these things to the FBI about Joe Biden and that is how it was presented.

[honk]

There's certainly no doubt that Hunter was hired by Burisma in an effort to help protect themselves, either by simply currying favor with Joe or by having access to directly influence him. The leadership of Burisma were clearly corrupt, and Shokin's refusal to properly investigate them was a big part of why the international community as a whole wanted him fired. (This is an important detail that conservatives keep trying to rewrite history on. Shokin wasn't fired for investigating Burisma; he was fired for protecting them. Biden wasn't protecting Burisma by demanding that Shokin be fired; it was in fact the reverse.) That criminals were talking like criminals amongst themselves isn't exactly a surprise. Also, Mykola Zlochevsky has something of a history of offering bribes, as seen by the fact that he's currently wanted by Ukraine's government for trying to bribe the prosecutors looking into Burisma, so the fact that he was supposedly considering offering bribes to Biden was almost certainly more of a Zlochevsky thing than a Biden thing, so to speak.

[ichoosereality]

If you argument is going to be essentially "yeah, the reporting is true, people were attesting to those things against Joe Biden" then I'm not sure why you jumped into denial mode to attack the source. They claimed that they received evidence that people were saying these things to the FBI about Joe Biden and that is how it was presented.

The reporting (by the CHS) is that the reported conversation took place, not that what the conversation was about is true which the CHS can not know and that fact is clearly downplayed in the article.  It seems pretty clear that Burisma put Hunter on their board to at least make it appear in their dealings with others that they had influence.  Whether they actually had influence with Biden via Hunter is not at all clear nor would it be necessary for Hunter's paycheck to be worthwhile to Bursima.  Also as Honk points out Biden wanted Shokin fired due to his NOT investigating Burisma, so that at least does not show Biden acting on Bursima's behalf but against them.

[Action80]

ITT ^ Saddam engaging in revisionist history, with cosigners.

[juner]

ITT ^ Saddam engaging in revisionist history, with cosigners.

sadaam loves sleepy joe more than batman

[honk]

I had a feeling I'd be met with denials. Very well, then, here are the actual sources backing up what I'm saying:

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/10/trump-revives-false-narrative-on-biden-and-ukraine/

https://www.apnews.com/united-states-presidential-election-9d4595ba4f3140c6bb6a3473a91f4a4c

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-07/timeline-in-ukraine-probe-casts-doubt-on-giuliani-s-biden-claim

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/03/politics/gop-senators-echoed-biden-on-ukraine-reforms-kfile/index.html

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/10/03/what-really-happened-when-biden-forced-out-ukraines-top-prosecutor/3785620002/

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/eu-hails-sacking-of-ukraine-s-prosecutor-viktor-shokin-1.2591190

The historical record is clear. Shokin was seen as corrupt by both parties in America as well as the international community at large, and more or less everyone supported firing him. If conservatives really thought that this was a corrupt action on Biden's part, they would have brought it up immediately to use it against him and Obama, not waited several years later until he was running for president.

[Action80]

I had a feeling I'd be met with denials. Very well, then, here are the actual sources backing up what I'm saying:

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/10/trump-revives-false-narrative-on-biden-and-ukraine/

https://www.apnews.com/united-states-presidential-election-9d4595ba4f3140c6bb6a3473a91f4a4c

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-07/timeline-in-ukraine-probe-casts-doubt-on-giuliani-s-biden-claim

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/03/politics/gop-senators-echoed-biden-on-ukraine-reforms-kfile/index.html

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/10/03/what-really-happened-when-biden-forced-out-ukraines-top-prosecutor/3785620002/

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/eu-hails-sacking-of-ukraine-s-prosecutor-viktor-shokin-1.2591190

The historical record is clear. Shokin was seen as corrupt by both parties in America as well as the international community at large, and more or less everyone supported firing him. If conservatives really thought that this was a corrupt action on Biden's part, they would have brought it up immediately to use it against him and Obama, not waited several years later until he was running for president.

The historical record is actually here in these threads, and it's funny you were not claiming any of this crap then that you are trotting out now.

Trump asking a foreign leader to investigate a political rival shortly before an election with the subject of military assistance to that country currently being an unsettled issue is ample evidence of his corruption and unfitness for office, and a more than good enough reason to impeach and convict him. The apologists who insist that this actually exonerates Trump because he didn't explicitly threaten the minister with withholding military aid, or explicitly spell out that this was for his own political gain, will never be satisfied, because that's now how real people talk in real life. Nobody would ever have their own words used against them in court going by this unreasonably high standard of evidence. Of course military aid was on the line for this agreement to investigate Biden. Trump knew it, Zelensky knew it, and you knew it. It didn't need to be spelled out for everyone to know it. And of course Trump was doing this for his own political gain. He didn't give a shit about the Biden's son and this supposed corruption issue until very recently, when he saw an opportunity to use it against him. This wasn't some natural concern for the president that just organically drifted across his desk. Everybody knows it. Trying to deny what's so clearly obvious is just playing dumb.

I think you need to rethink the whole reasoning about what motivates Trump apologists regarding this matter.

You see, there is no evidence that anything you have written in this polemic is true.

What you write is not obvious.

But just in case, go ahead and point to the lines in the transcript for everyone. You know, the line where Trump says to Zelensky, "Either investigate the Biden issue or else you get no military aid!"

By the way, when you do that, point to a law that says this is illegal.

Cause when you do, the actual videotape (still currently airing on YouTube since it was first recorded) of Biden bragging about exactly that type of behavior will be right here...

https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/24/watch-joe-biden-brag-about-bribing-ukraine-to-fire-the-prosecutor-investigating-his-sons-company/

"While the whistleblower complaint is based on hearsay, we do know that Joe Biden, while serving as vice president, pressured the Ukrainian government to fire the prosecutor who was investigating his son’s company. Hunter Biden joined the board of Ukrainian national gas company Burisma in 2014 while his father was managing the United States’ Ukraine policy and despite zero personal experience in the field. At the time Hunter Biden joined its board, Burisma was embroiled in allegations of corruption, allegations serious enough that Ukraine’s prosecutor general launched an investigation into the company."

Very weak effort Saddam...truly, truly weak...but typical liberal...

[Lord Dave]

Why did you counter a post about Biden and Hunter with Trump and Ukraine and call that evidence?

[Action80]

Why did you counter a post about Biden and Hunter with Trump and Ukraine and call that evidence?

All humans can see the subject matter is the same.

[Lord Dave]

Why did you counter a post about Biden and Hunter with Trump and Ukraine and call that evidence?

All humans can see the subject matter is the same.

I am not human so please explain how your post proves that Biden tried to protect Hunter's company.

[Action80]

Why did you counter a post about Biden and Hunter with Trump and Ukraine and call that evidence?

All humans can see the subject matter is the same.

I am not human so please explain how your post proves that Biden tried to protect Hunter's company.

I only explain things to humans.

[honk]

The historical record is actually here in these threads

No, it isn't. What a strange thing to say.

and it's funny you were not claiming any of this crap then that you are trotting out now

How is at all relevant what I did or didn't say in a post four years ago?

[Tom Bishop]

Imagine pretending that Hunter Biden's business is unrelated to Joe Biden.

https://twitter.com/KanekoaTheGreat/status/1684653912689872896?s=20

BREAKING🚨 Rep. James Comer says six banks, including JP Morgan, Bank of America, and Wells Fargo, submitted over 170 suspicious activity reports to the Treasury Department regarding the Biden family, alleging their involvement in money laundering, human trafficking, and tax fraud.

The American banks also raised concerns about wire transfers received by the Bidens from foreign state-owned entities, notably from the Chinese government, allegedly for the purpose of money laundering and tax evasion.

The foreign wires were found to be directed towards Biden's business associates before being funneled through 20 shell companies associated with the Bidens. Subsequently, the funds were distributed among various Biden family members.

SARs are vital documents that financial institutions must file with the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) when they suspect any cases of money laundering or fraudulent activities.

Rep. Comer highlighted one specific SAR linked to a $3 million wire from China to Biden's business partner, Rob Walker. This money was received in an inactive account that had maintained a $50,000 balance for ten years before the significant wire transaction from China.

Within just 24 hours of receiving the wire, Walker initiated incremental payments to several Biden shell companies, eventually disbursing funds to four different Biden family members.

Comer explained that concealing the source of money through the use of shell companies to deceive the IRS is considered money laundering and racketeering.

He noted that if the funds were intended for legitimate purposes, they could have been wired directly to Hunter Biden, but instead, they were routed through business partners and various companies with no clear legitimate purpose.

Senator Ted Cruz asked, "So the Chinese Communist government was sending the money?"

Rep. Comer replied, "Yes."

"If Hunter Biden was doing something legitimate for China, they could have just wired the money to Hunter Biden, but they didn't," he explained.

"They sent it to a company called Robinson Walker. Then they wired it to a company called Owasco. Then they wired it to another company called Bohai. These companies don't do anything with the money."

Senator Cruz responded, "It's just a bucket to pour the water in, then a bucket to pour it into somewhere else?"

Rep Comer said, "That's exactly what it is and it was organized. This is like organized crime."

When the corporate media foolishly asks where is the evidence that the Bidens committed crimes?

American banks have submitted hundreds of suspicious activity reports on the Biden family, alleging their involvement in human trafficking, money laundering, and tax fraud.

Congressional investigators have obtained bank account records and wire transfer statements on twenty shell companies owned by the Bidens, which were allegedly used for laundering illegally obtained money from China, Russia, Ukraine, Romania, and Kazakhstan as unregistered foreign agents.

This evidence is supported by hundreds of thousands of emails, tens of thousands of text messages, photographs, audio recordings, calendar statements, and ten years of data from Hunter Biden's laptop, which the FBI took into its possession in 2019.

@MarcoPolo501c3
 published a comprehensive "Report on the Biden Laptop," documenting 459 alleged crimes involving the Biden family and their associates, including 140 business crimes, 191 sex crimes, and 128 drug crimes.

A $1,000 reward is offered for any verifiable corrections, but thus far, no crimes have been disputed.

In addition, credible IRS whistleblowers have accused the Justice Department of obstructing the Hunter Biden investigation by blocking felony charges, search warrants, and interviews while preventing any investigation of the President and his family.

Furthermore, just yesterday, a judge highlighted an unprecedented lenient deal offered by the Justice Department to Hunter Biden, which would result in no felony charges or jail time for tax fraud and lying on a gun form.

This DOJ deal would have also granted protection to the First Son from any future prosecution related to illegally obtained money from foreign nations as an unregistered foreign agent.

What is more corrosive and destructive to our nation than a politicized Justice Department that applies different legal standards depending on whether one's last name is Trump or Biden?

[honk]

Show me the evidence. Not Ted Cruz and another partisan stooge talking about all the evidence, but the actual evidence itself, or at least a summary of it from a trustworthy source, and then maybe I'll agree there's something there. That Republicans like Cruz are making wild promises about how super-duper corrupt the Bidens are means nothing. Also, a couple of highlights from that lengthy spiel:

@MarcoPolo501c3 published a comprehensive "Report on the Biden Laptop," documenting 459 alleged crimes involving the Biden family and their associates, including 140 business crimes, 191 sex crimes, and 128 drug crimes.

Very believable numbers there. At this point you might as well just say "omg the Bidens have stolen a gorillion bazillion dollars!"

A $1,000 reward is offered for any verifiable corrections, but thus far, no crimes have been disputed.

As I've said before in other threads, these "Prove x and I'll pay you money!" gimmicks are meaningless regardless of the subject under discussion. The people who put these challenges up usually provide themselves with an escape hatch to avoid having to pay if they don't want to, and even if they don't, the number of legal hoops you'd have to jump through to force them to pay is unfeasible for most people. They're publicity stunts, nothing more.

[Lord Dave]

Ssooo... All these crimes were discovered by Trump while he was president and he did nothing?  How interesting....