The Flat Earth Society
Other Discussion Boards => Science & Alternative Science => Topic started by: Tom Bishop on September 30, 2014, 02:26:14 PM
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All diseases can be cured through natural means. Diabetes, Chrons, Arthritis, Lyme, Asthma, Ebola, Polio, and many more diseases which are thought to be "incurable" are easily cured by cleaning the body and providing the nutrients and vitamins it needs to combat the disease.
There is a website called curezone.com, where people the world over get together and speak about what works for them. There are thousands of willing and desperate people who are willing to try anything, any supplements, any diet, any fast, any cleanse, to rid themselves of their ailments. I've heard of people with Diabetes curing themselves with a purely raw diet. There are stories of Chrons sufferers curing themselves with DIY fecal transplants. Arthritis is a symptom of toxicity, and is virtually eliminated once the body is detoxified with a substance like organic sulfer. Bilary colic and galbladder disease is cured via liver flushing. Asthma is really a fungus infection of the lungs, and can be cured with anti-fungals. A lot of these methods are ancient, but the power of the internet has brought people together to experiment and refine on a large scale.
There is a conspiracy in medicine. I've learned a lot over the last year I've been sick with my own disease affecting every organ in my body. I've come to the concision that doctors don't really know much. They went to medical school and were taught by the industry and pharmaceutical companies with a twisted view of medicine designed to maximize profits. See, a pharmaceutical company can't get behind a substance like Vitamin C, because it is unpatentable. No pharmaceutical company will invest tens of millions of dollars to put Vitamin C through the FDA approval process because it gets them nowhere. There is no protection for a substance anyone can make.
Pharmaceutical companies maximize profits by educating medical students under their allopathic version of medicine where profit trumps health. Antibiotics are handed out like candy. People are kept on Proton Pump Inhibitors for years. Cancer treatments literally poison the body. If you're old and in pain, doctors would rather treat you with pain killers and call it a cure, than to figure out the root cause of the condition. If you get worse with the poisons they're feeding you, all the better, it just means more profit for them when you crawl back begging for more.
The greatest minds of medicine are not at Stanford University, but at schools like Bastyr University, the top Naturopathic school in the country. Students are taught the truth about the human body, and the truth about disease. They are not fed lies like "having yellow stools for a long period of time is of no concern" like you would hear in a medical school. If you complain of light colored stools you will go untreated. But yellow stools are a bad thing and lead to other diseases. It means there is a bilary duct obstruction and must be treated by removing the liver stones with a Liver Flush and liver cleansing. There is no such thing as a liver flush, or cleaning of the organs, in allopathic medicine. If you ever develop gallbladder disease the recommendation is removal. If you develop liver disease you are put on a waiting list for a transplant, hoping that you get a liver before you die like many others have with that disease.
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All diseases can be cured through natural means. Diabetes, Chrons, Arthritis, Lyme, Asthma, Ebola, Polio, and many more diseases which are thought to be "incurable" are easily cured by cleaning the body and providing the nutrients and vitamins it needs to combat the disease.
Ebola is easily curable?
Oh wait.. Mr. Bishop
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All diseases can be cured through natural means. Diabetes, Chrons, Arthritis, Lyme, Asthma, Ebola, Polio, and many more diseases which are thought to be "incurable" are easily cured by cleaning the body and providing the nutrients and vitamins it needs to combat the disease.
Ebola is easily curable?
There is an easy cure for Ebola as there is for any viral disease. Ebola can be easily cured via Vitamin C injections (http://exopolitics.blogs.com/ebolagate/2014/09/-vitamin-c-can-cure-ebola-so-why-are-the-who-and-cdc-creating-a-crisis.html).
The main reason we don't see the FDA and CDC descending on Africa with Vitamin C is because this single vitamin threatens trillion dollar empires. They would rather see people die than Vitamin C take off. Vitamin C, an acid natural to the body, is the ammunition the immune system uses to combat viruses, bacteria, and fungus which invade the body. The immune system identifies the disease the uses the vitamin acid to dissolve it from existence. By receiving mega-doses of the vitamin, a vitamin which cannot be created by the body, we can assist the immune system in its natural process of combating disease.
Have you ever noticed that dogs and other animals rarely get sick, except maybe right before they're about to die? We don't see many animals with chronic long-term diseases like we see in humans. That's because their bodies naturally create megadoses of Vitamin C in times of crisis. Humans and a few other species such as Guinea Pigs, are among the few who cannot create Vitamin C and must receive it from an outside source.
Vitamin C is the cure for many diseases. It has been studied for the last 60 years. There are few conditions it cannot help out with. This single vitamin has been suppressed by higher powers because they are afraid of it. It can cure tuberculosis. It can cure the common cold. It can cure pancreatis. It can cure polio and malaria and influenza and pneumonia. In sufficient quantity it can even cure cancer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL_g5-6DCVQ).
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Vitamin C injections... I'm seeing a pattern here.
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What fruit should one eat to cure HIV?
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What fruit should one eat to cure HIV?
Fruits are what cause HIV. Without the fruits, God wouldn't punish man with this horrible disease.
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No, God is punishing people for pushing their penises into bottoms or sleeping with people who do.
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All diseases can be cured through natural means. Diabetes, Chrons, Arthritis, Lyme, Asthma, Ebola, Polio, and many more diseases which are thought to be "incurable" are easily cured by cleaning the body and providing the nutrients and vitamins it needs to combat the disease.
Ebola is easily curable?
There is an easy cure for Ebola as there is for any viral disease. Ebola can be easily cured via Vitamin C injections (http://exopolitics.blogs.com/ebolagate/2014/09/-vitamin-c-can-cure-ebola-so-why-are-the-who-and-cdc-creating-a-crisis.html).
The main reason we don't see the FDA and CDC descending on Africa with Vitamin C is because this single vitamin threatens trillion dollar empires. They would rather see people die than Vitamin C take off. Vitamin C, an acid natural to the body, is the ammunition the immune system uses to combat viruses, bacteria, and fungus which invade the body. The immune system identifies the disease the uses the vitamin acid to dissolve it from existence. By receiving mega-doses of the vitamin, a vitamin which cannot be created by the body, we can assist the immune system in its natural process of combating disease.
Have you ever noticed that dogs and other animals rarely get sick, except maybe right before they're about to die? We don't see many animals with chronic long-term diseases like we see in humans. That's because their bodies naturally create megadoses of Vitamin C in times of crisis. Humans and a few other species such as Guinea Pigs, are among the few who cannot create Vitamin C and must receive it from an outside source.
Vitamin C is the cure for many diseases. It has been studied for the last 60 years. There are few conditions it cannot help out with. This single vitamin has been suppressed by higher powers because they are afraid of it. It can cure tuberculosis. It can cure the common cold. It can cure pancreatis. It can cure polio and malaria and influenza and pneumonia. In sufficient quantity it can even cure cancer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL_g5-6DCVQ).
Cmon man. If you think curing every disease is curable by a Vitamin C injection, then you are an easy target for the billion dollar market: homeopathic cures which is for the most unsubstantiated wives tales with no science backing it up.
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No, God is punishing people for pushing their penises into bottoms or sleeping with people who do.
Why are you repeating what Duck Dodgers said.
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No, God is punishing people for pushing their penises into bottoms or sleeping with people who do.
Why are you repeating what Duck Dodgers said.
I missed the pun. I have been at work all day. I'm tired and susceptible to being outwitted. I should log off to preserve my reputation. :(
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Cmon man. If you think curing every disease is curable by a Vitamin C injection, then you are an easy target for the billion dollar market: homeopathic cures which is for the most unsubstantiated wives tales with no science backing it up.
This is when the medical conspiracies start getting involved..
"Vitamin C is considered quack cure because big pharma wants to make money off you by killing you"
It's circular reasoning. The only solution is to let Tom OD on Vitamin C then continue letting him claim that his kidney stones are curing his terminal illness.
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Vitamin C injections... I'm seeing a pattern here.
Vitamin Conspiracy?
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What fruit should one eat to cure HIV?
The treatment for HIV is Vitamin C.
See:
The Truth about HIV and Vitamin C
https://www.patrickholford.com/advice/the-truth-about-hiv-and-vitamin-c
A Cure For AIDS?
http://www.cqs.com/aidscure.htm
High Levels of Vitamin C Prove Toxic to HIV
http://www3.scienceblog.com/community/older/1997/A/199700701.html
What Doctors Don't Tell You: Vitamin C Cures AIDS
http://wwddtydty.com/2013/10/wddty-lies-vitamin-c-aids-cure/
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Vitamin C injections... I'm seeing a pattern here.
Vitamin Conspiracy?
Huge, overarching conspiracy. (http://www.whale.to/a/vit_c_cons.html) Completely legit news source.
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What fruit should one eat to cure HIV?
The treatment for HIV is Vitamin C.
See:
The Truth about HIV and Vitamin C
https://www.patrickholford.com/advice/the-truth-about-hiv-and-vitamin-c
A Cure For AIDS?
http://www.cqs.com/aidscure.htm
High Levels of Vitamin C Prove Toxic to HIV
http://www3.scienceblog.com/community/older/1997/A/199700701.html
What Doctors Don't Tell You: Vitamin C Cures AIDS
http://wwddtydty.com/2013/10/wddty-lies-vitamin-c-aids-cure/
From the conclusion paragraph of your own source, Tom
The claim that Vitamin C cures AIDS was at the centre of vitamin überquack Patrick Holford‘s attempts to silence Ben Goldacre. It is, needless to say, complete bollocks.
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What fruit should one eat to cure HIV?
The treatment for HIV is Vitamin C.
See:
The Truth about HIV and Vitamin C
https://www.patrickholford.com/advice/the-truth-about-hiv-and-vitamin-c
A Cure For AIDS?
http://www.cqs.com/aidscure.htm
High Levels of Vitamin C Prove Toxic to HIV
http://www3.scienceblog.com/community/older/1997/A/199700701.html
What Doctors Don't Tell You: Vitamin C Cures AIDS
http://wwddtydty.com/2013/10/wddty-lies-vitamin-c-aids-cure/
Although none of those sources say that Vitamin C cures AIDS or HIV, just that it outperforms AZT, the last link in particular says that that claim is untrue. Following some of the links contained therein you find a significant dissenting opinion, even among those who once supported Holford's claim.
http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2013/02/incurable-stupidity-and-irresponsibility-at-wddty.html
http://www.badscience.net/2007/02/patrick-holford-food-is-better-than-medicine-south-africa-tour/
I might recommend you do a bit more research before you completely abandon the medical mainstream. After all, not all countries allow Big Pharma in to the classroom or offices of doctor's, and modern medicine is responsible for a steady increase in people's life spans.
Happy hunting.
EDIT: Ninja'ed by Thork, so also: What Thork said.
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How much Vitamin C would I have to take to become immortal?
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How much Vitamin C would I have to take to become immortal?
You are confusing vitamin C with Vodka & Redbull.
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High Levels of Vitamin C Prove Toxic to HIV
http://www3.scienceblog.com/community/older/1997/A/199700701.html
If Vitamin C does nothing to HIV, and was complete bs, then what is this study doing here?
It proves that the HIV load was reduced with Vitamin C. It proves that the body uses Vitamin C to cure itself of disease.
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At the same time, however, extremely high levels of the vitamin are more toxic to the HIV-infected cells than to healthy immune cells, the investigators report in the Feb. 28 issue of the Journal of Biological Chemistry.
How does more toxic to HIV cells than healthy immune cells make it a cure for HIV? What dosage is required to completely cure someone of HIV. There is no indication. Maybe that is because:
The laboratory research provides the foundation to begin to understand the relationship among vitamin C, HIV infection, and cell metabolism, and may lead to new therapeutic targets to counter the AIDS virus, he added.
It looks like the connection you are claiming is not claimed by this clinic. Instead it was an interesting preliminary result that deserves further research. This is not a cure and to claim so is irresponsible.
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What fruit should one eat to cure HIV?
The treatment for HIV is Vitamin C.
See:
The Truth about HIV and Vitamin C
https://www.patrickholford.com/advice/the-truth-about-hiv-and-vitamin-c
A Cure For AIDS?
http://www.cqs.com/aidscure.htm
High Levels of Vitamin C Prove Toxic to HIV
http://www3.scienceblog.com/community/older/1997/A/199700701.html
What Doctors Don't Tell You: Vitamin C Cures AIDS
http://wwddtydty.com/2013/10/wddty-lies-vitamin-c-aids-cure/
From the conclusion paragraph of your own source, Tom
The claim that Vitamin C cures AIDS was at the centre of vitamin überquack Patrick Holford‘s attempts to silence Ben Goldacre. It is, needless to say, complete bollocks.
Read the What Doctors Don't Tell you link on that page. People were treated with Vitamin C with good results. The guy saying it's complete bollocks bases his opinion on an advertisement that appeared on that page in the banner area that picked up the keyword for Vitamin C and advertised Liposomal Vitamin C to him.
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What fruit should one eat to cure HIV?
The treatment for HIV is Vitamin C.
See:
The Truth about HIV and Vitamin C
https://www.patrickholford.com/advice/the-truth-about-hiv-and-vitamin-c
A Cure For AIDS?
http://www.cqs.com/aidscure.htm
High Levels of Vitamin C Prove Toxic to HIV
http://www3.scienceblog.com/community/older/1997/A/199700701.html
What Doctors Don't Tell You: Vitamin C Cures AIDS
http://wwddtydty.com/2013/10/wddty-lies-vitamin-c-aids-cure/
From the conclusion paragraph of your own source, Tom
The claim that Vitamin C cures AIDS was at the centre of vitamin überquack Patrick Holford‘s attempts to silence Ben Goldacre. It is, needless to say, complete bollocks.
Read the What Doctors Don't Tell you link on that page. People were treated with Vitamin C with good results. The guy saying it's complete bollocks bases his opinion on an advertisement that appeared on that page in the banner area that picked up the keyword for Vitamin C and advertised Liposomal Vitamin C to him.
No, the article finishes ...
The claim that Vitamin C cures AIDS was at the centre of vitamin überquack Patrick Holford‘s attempts to silence Ben Goldacre. It is, needless to say, complete bollocks.
Why don’t doctors tell you that Vitamin C cures AIDS?
Because it’s not true.
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At the same time, however, extremely high levels of the vitamin are more toxic to the HIV-infected cells than to healthy immune cells, the investigators report in the Feb. 28 issue of the Journal of Biological Chemistry.
How does more toxic to HIV cells than healthy immune cells make it a cure for HIV? What dosage is required to completely cure someone of HIV. There is no indication.
Maybe that is because:
The laboratory research provides the foundation to begin to understand the relationship among vitamin C, HIV infection, and cell metabolism, and may lead to new therapeutic targets to counter the AIDS virus, he added.
It looks like the connection you are claiming is not claimed by this clinic. Instead it was an interesting preliminary result that deserves further research. This is not a cure and to claim so is irresponsible.
It shows that Vitamin C to treat diseases is not bollocks. If it were bollocks it wouldn't have done anything.
Linus Pauling has treated AIDS and cancer patients in his clinic. His has published books about it. Other doctors are treating patients as well.
Another study: http://www4.dr-rath-foundation.org/pdf-files/hiv99percentreduced.pdf
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The claim that Vitamin C cures AIDS was at the centre of vitamin überquack Patrick Holford‘s attempts to silence Ben Goldacre. It is, needless to say, complete bollocks.
Why don’t doctors tell you that Vitamin C cures AIDS?
Because it’s not true.
The words "complete bollocks" are hyperlinked, and bring you to a page by that person describing that the Vitamin C claim is false because the WDDTY website had some banner advertisements which advertised Vitamin C.
The referenced What Doctors Don't Tell You link goes through the actual benefits of Vitamin C.
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Here is a doctor who has successfully treated HIV and AIDS patients with Vitamin C
http://www.doctoryourself.com/aids_cathcart.html
"My previous experience with the utilization of ascorbic acid in the treatment of viral diseases led me to hypothesize that ascorbate would be of value in the treatment of AIDS (acquired immune deficiency syndrome). Preliminary clinical evidence is that massive doses of ascorbate (50-200 grams per 24 hours) can suppress the symptoms of the disease and can markedly reduce the tendency for secondary infections. In combination with usual treatments for the secondary infections, large doses of ascorbate will often produce a clinical remission which shows every evidence of being prolonged if treatment is continued. This clinical remission is achieved despite continuing laboratory evidence of helper T-cell suppression. There may be a complete or partial destruction of the helper T-cells during an initial infection that does not necessitate a continuing toxicity from some source to maintain a permanent or prolonged helper T-cell suppression. However, it is possible ascorbate may prevent that destruction if used adequately during that prodrome period. Emphasis is put upon the recognition and treatment of the frequent intestinal parasites. Food and chemical sensitivities occur frequently in the AID syndrome and may aggravate symptoms considered to be part of the AID syndrome. A topical C-paste has been found very effective in the treatment of herpes simplex and, to a lesser extent, in the treatment of some Kaposi's lesions. Increasingly, clinical research on other methods of treating AIDS is being "contaminated" by patients taking ascorbate"
There you have it. People have been cured of AIDS with Vitamin C, and a tell-all paper on how to do it.
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The claim that Vitamin C cures AIDS was at the centre of vitamin überquack Patrick Holford‘s attempts to silence Ben Goldacre. It is, needless to say, complete bollocks.
Why don’t doctors tell you that Vitamin C cures AIDS?
Because it’s not true.
The words "complete bollocks" are hyperlinked, and bring you to a page by that person describing that the Vitamin C claim is false because the WDDTY website had some banner advertisements which advertised Vitamin C.
The referenced What Doctors Don't Tell You link goes through the actual benefits of Vitamin C.
It looks like you did not read the hyperlink you mentioned. When I follow it, it talks about the magazine version released to stores:
(http://i1323.photobucket.com/albums/u596/Gilshem/Capture_zps6ccecfdd.jpg) (http://s1323.photobucket.com/user/Gilshem/media/Capture_zps6ccecfdd.jpg.html)
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Here is a doctor who has successfully treated HIV and AIDS patients with Vitamin C
http://www.doctoryourself.com/aids_cathcart.html
"My previous experience with the utilization of ascorbic acid in the treatment of viral diseases led me to hypothesize that ascorbate would be of value in the treatment of AIDS (acquired immune deficiency syndrome). Preliminary clinical evidence is that massive doses of ascorbate (50-200 grams per 24 hours) can suppress the symptoms of the disease and can markedly reduce the tendency for secondary infections. In combination with usual treatments for the secondary infections, large doses of ascorbate will often produce a clinical remission which shows every evidence of being prolonged if treatment is continued. This clinical remission is achieved despite continuing laboratory evidence of helper T-cell suppression. There may be a complete or partial destruction of the helper T-cells during an initial infection that does not necessitate a continuing toxicity from some source to maintain a permanent or prolonged helper T-cell suppression. However, it is possible ascorbate may prevent that destruction if used adequately during that prodrome period. Emphasis is put upon the recognition and treatment of the frequent intestinal parasites. Food and chemical sensitivities occur frequently in the AID syndrome and may aggravate symptoms considered to be part of the AID syndrome. A topical C-paste has been found very effective in the treatment of herpes simplex and, to a lesser extent, in the treatment of some Kaposi's lesions. Increasingly, clinical research on other methods of treating AIDS is being "contaminated" by patients taking ascorbate"
There you have it. People have been cured of AIDS with Vitamin C, and a tell-all paper on how to do it.
One anecdote about one person being cured? You know how ridiculous that is?
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Funny that you claim people have been cured of HIV or AIDS when there has apparently only been one case of a person being cured and it was by accident.
http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/scientists-closer-understanding-how-berlin-patient-was-cured-hiv
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One anecdote about one person being cured? You know how ridiculous that is?
Where does it say he only cured one patient? In his paper he says that he worked with 12 of his own patients, and cites 90 others who have used Vitamin C.
Funny that you claim people have been cured of HIV or AIDS when there has apparently only been one case of a person being cured and it was by accident.
http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/scientists-closer-understanding-how-berlin-patient-was-cured-hiv
The allopathic pharmaceutical industry ignores and suppresses naturopathic research. This is no surprise.
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One anecdote about one person being cured? You know how ridiculous that is?
Where does it say he only cured one patient?
You are right. This one says "preliminary evidence" which is saying "not enough evidence to draw a sound conclusion from".
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You are right. This one says "preliminary evidence" which is saying "not enough evidence to draw a sound conclusion from".
The deck is stacked against people who try promoting natural alternatives to medicine. Legally, that's what he has to say. If he went around claiming that he could cure your AIDS, the FDA would be all over him.
To be FDA approved someone has to sponsor the treatment through FDA-approved clinical trials, which can take tens of millions of dollars to achieve. The for-profit medical industry is never going to do this for Vitamin C because it will put them out of business. They have very large billion dollar businesses to protect. Vitamin C cannot be patented. Anyone can make it. There is no propriety and no profit potential. These businesses would rather that people die than know about Vitamin C.
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You are right. This one says "preliminary evidence" which is saying "not enough evidence to draw a sound conclusion from".
The deck is stacked against people who try promoting natural alternatives to medicine. Legally, that's what he has to say.
Citation required.
If he went around claiming that he could cure your AIDS, the FDA would be all over him.
To be FDA approved someone has to sponsor the treatment through FDA-approved clinical trials, which can take tens of millions of dollars to achieve. The for-profit medical industry is never going to do this for Vitamin C because it will put them out of business. They have very large billion dollar businesses to protect. Vitamin C cannot be patented. Anyone can make it. There is no propriety and no profit potential. These businesses would rather that people die than know about Vitamin C.
Ok, ignoring that you are putting words in that doctor's mouth, the fact remains that there is not apparently a large statistical group to say definitively that Vitamin C does what you say it does. Couple that with there being evidence dissenting against your view, it seems like the responsible and logical thing to do is remain agnostic, doesn't it?
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Ok, ignoring that you are putting words in that doctor's mouth, the fact remains that there is not apparently a large statistical group to say definitively that Vitamin C does what you say it does. Couple that with there being evidence dissenting against your view, it seems like the responsible and logical thing to do is remain agnostic, doesn't it?
There are no large statistical studies because no pharmaceutical company is picking it up for the large clinical trials. Dr. Cathcart doesn't have the means to organize thousands of patients for prolonged clinical trials. He knows that he can treat AIDS and other diseases, and that's good enough for him.
There are plenty of testimonials for the effectiveness of Vitamin C:
http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1313858#
"Vitamin C infusions saved my life. My chemo treatment was killing me, putting me into the hospital and straining my heart. I was at deaths door, and one treatment, only one treatment before my next chemo, (the one I thought was going to be my last because I thought was sure I would be dead) and I was a whole new person. I am very angry that the doctors did not tell me about this therapy and I almost didn't make it because of that."
http://www.breastcancertreatment.co.nz/intravenous-vitamin-c.htm
Pam Stevens (New Zealand). "After just five months of twice weekly treatments together with a broad range of pharmaceutical grade nutritional supplements the patches of cancer in my bones had completely disappeared. I have survived very aggressive, invasive breast cancer without resorting to chemotherapy, radiotherapy or drugs. Instead my chosen treatment path has been surgery, intravenous vitamin C and pharmaceutical grade nutritional supplements. The dose of vitamin C I have been on is 82.5 grams - initially twice a week but now once every fortnight. This has been administered since September 2005 and tolerated without any side effects other than thirst while having the treatment."
http://www.maryclinic.com/about.html
"Charles C. Mary, Jr., A physician in New Orleans, Louisiana (was practicing IVC since the times of Pauling lectures) - Not only does he recommend it for his patients, he has personal experience with the healing properties of ascorbic acid. In 1990 he developed colon cancer. Not wanting to go the traditional route of "cut, poison and burn", he decided to treat himself with mega-doses of ascorbic acid. Every day, for three months, he took 100,000 milligrams (100 grams) intravenously. Upon the persistence of his family and colleagues he agreed to have a resection of his colon after the vitamin therapy. Much to the astonishment of the surgical team and pathologists, his cancer was gone- visibly and microscopically."
http://www.healingcancernaturally.com/vitamin-c-cancer-therapy-cure.html
"George received 30 grams (30,000 milligrams) of vitamin C twice a week for six weeks. X-rays six weeks later showed a marked decrease in the size of the tumors. George continued the injections. Six months later there was no evidence of cancer. Mr. Williams lived a relatively healthy life for another 14 years and died a few years ago of congestive heart failure at the age of 84."
http://www.topix.com/forum/health/cancer/T87R8EG2BCFCK2S4A/p2#lastPost
"Tricia Thompson, (Canada). He takes Morphine to numb the pain he experiences. After one round of chemo, and a bout in the hospital for illeus (bowel stopped working), he is now to sick to continue chemo at this time. He started on Int Vit C about 2 weeks ago, 50g 3x a week. He hasn't felt any improvement in his symptoms yet and said he actually feel a bit worse (Feb 21, 2007). My dad went for his blood work and although his white blood cell count was still up and his red was still low, his cancer marker count ca9-19 went fro 950 to 320. We understand this is still high, but it's definately a step in the right direction."
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060810/news_1c10patients.html
"Bill Nath (one of 3 in Levine's study)- Nath consulted experts at four major cancer centers from Wichita to New York. All recommended chemo, radiation, and removal of all or part of the bladder. Total removal would include the prostate, adding risks of incontinence and impotence.
One specialist "said if I didn't remove the whole bladder, I would die," said Nath. "It was pretty traumatic."
Nath ultimately made a choice that seemed suicidal to his wife, friends, and doctors: to keep part of his bladder and forgo chemo and radiation. Instead, he got 30 grams of C twice a week for three months, then every month or two for four years at the Center for the Improvement of Human Functioning in Wichita. It was founded by Hugh Riordan, a physician and friend of Pauling's, now deceased. Today, a decade after his diagnosis, Nath is cancer-free. Levine, in collaboration with National Cancer Institute pathologists, reexamined, then published Nath's case and two others from Riordan's center."
also, from http://www.maryclinic.com/about.html
"Countless cases of people told to go home and die by their doctors were treated and outlived their death sentences. Patients with all types of cancer - breast, lung, colon, prostate, pancreatic, kidney, leukemia, even metastatic cancer- can be helped with ascorbic acid. But it is not just the Vitamin C. At the clinic, we believe in a more wholistic philosophy. Medicine cannot be the only answer. We are complex organisms that require many different things to operate. What we eat, what we breathe, what we drink, how we feel, how we interact with each other, our spirituality- these things will not be separate. These are the core issues of health and wellness. There is no magic bullet. For those of us whose health is less than optimal, we need to remember that it took a while, occasionally many years, to reach the state of disrepair in which we reside. It may take some time to retrain the body- cell by cell- back into proper form and function."
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Testimonial evidence exists for alien abductions, bigfoot, flying bunny monster, and anything else that you can make up.
Testimonials are not evidence of anything.
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Here is a short three minute video which proves to me that Vitamin C is beneficial.
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/video/#!/news/health/Could-Vitamin-C-Help-Treat-Pancreatic-Cancer-/137546083
According to this video the majority of pancreatic cancer patients at this clinic showed regression after receiving Vitamin C IV therapy. A majority! As the doctor states in the video, pancreatic cancer is the most deadly type of cancer with a cruel 1% survival rate using traditional medicine.
It would be hard to say that these patients in this clinic regressed because of some reason other than Vitamin C.
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Testimonial evidence exists for alien abductions, bigfoot, flying bunny monster, and anything else that you can make up.
Testimonials are not evidence of anything.
This is incorrect. If multiple sources are claiming that a man was gunned down in a nearby neighborhood, it is evidence that a shooting took place and it gets reported in the newspaper.
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Testimonial evidence exists for alien abductions, bigfoot, flying bunny monster, and anything else that you can make up.
Testimonials are not evidence of anything.
This is incorrect. If multiple sources are claiming that a man was gunned down in a nearby neighborhood, it is evidence that a shooting took place and it gets reported in the newspaper.
Perhaps, but that isn't the case here. These are all separate people commenting on separate experiences. They cannot corroborate someone else's personal experience.
Eyewitness misidentification is the single greatest cause of wrongful convictions nationwide (in US, at least). Does that not tell you anything?
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There are no large statistical studies because no pharmaceutical company is picking it up for the large clinical trials.
That's a silly statement, why would a large pharmaceutical company run an expensive clinical trial for something that it doesn't produce/hold a patent on?
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This idea that Vitamin C cures all sounds an awful lot like the phosphorus tonic that Dr. Birley used to push back in the day.
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This idea that Vitamin C cures all sounds an awful lot like the phosphorus tonic that Dr. Birley used to push back in the day.
Or colloidal silver. Which literally turns users blue.
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This idea that Vitamin C cures all sounds an awful lot like the phosphorus tonic that Dr. Birley used to push back in the day.
Or colloidal silver. Which literally turns users blue.
Or radium water. One man drank 1400 doses and his jaw fell off.
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Testimonial evidence exists for alien abductions, bigfoot, flying bunny monster, and anything else that you can make up.
Testimonials are not evidence of anything.
This is incorrect. If multiple sources are claiming that a man was gunned down in a nearby neighborhood, it is evidence that a shooting took place and it gets reported in the newspaper.
Your analogy fails because we are not trying to determine if a single event occured, we are trying to determine if Vitamin C is actually a cure for... everything. Your testimony strikes me as something not unlike claims that faith healing works.
Here is a short three minute video which proves to me that Vitamin C is beneficial.
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/video/#!/news/health/Could-Vitamin-C-Help-Treat-Pancreatic-Cancer-/137546083
According to this video the majority of pancreatic cancer patients at this clinic showed regression after receiving Vitamin C IV therapy. A majority! As the doctor states in the video, pancreatic cancer is the most deadly type of cancer with a cruel 1% survival rate using traditional medicine.
It would be hard to say that these patients in this clinic regressed because of some reason other than Vitamin C.
Do those people still die of pancreatic cancer or not? If 100% of them lived, I would agree that it is a cure for pancreatic cancer.
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The only thing vitamin c cures is scurvy.
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The only thing vitamin c cures is scurvy.
And lightly coloured urine.
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Oh come on guys, are you really this bored/stupid? This is the single most obvious example of "hi I'm Tom Bishop and I have extreme views" threads I have ever seen.
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Oh come on guys, are you really this bored/stupid? This is the single most obvious example of "hi I'm Tom Bishop and I have extreme views" threads I have ever seen.
Yeah, but it was a nice impetus to research something I had never contemplated.
Also:
Tom Bishop is the foremost thinker of the FES. He does not even know who you are.
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Tim Bishop is one of the most esteemed zentics of this era. How dare you demand we ignore him?
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NaturalNews is a quality source.
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Tim Bisharp is a good man.
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I saw this on an episode of House once...
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I saw this on an episode of House once...
Doesn't House call them Tom an idiot in it?
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I saw this on an episode of House once...
Doesn't House call them Tom an idiot in it?
wut,\
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There is a conspiracy in the vitamin industry. I've learned a lot by reading some articles on the internet. I've come to the concision that 'naturalist healers' don't really know $h*#. They were taught by other naturalists with a twisted view of medicine designed to maximize profits. See, naturalists can get behind a substance like vitamin C because it's unpatentable, and they don't have to invest millions of dollars in research and development, not to mention FDA approval, to prove or support any of their claims about its ability to cure disease.
You see, naturalist healers have a huge financial incentive to keep you sick. Traditional medicine already has a strangle hold on the health care market. They control a multi-trillion dollar market. The only way for the vitamin industry to gain any market share at all is to convince customers that traditional medicine is unsafe. The most effective way to do this is to make your customers ill and convince them that only you posses the cure. The vitamin industry is a multi-billion dollar industry in its own right, so it has every incentive to do this. Even if they couldn't make you ill (and I'll demonstrate momentarily with an anecdote from a website that this is an indisputable fact), they still have a huge incentive to lie to you about the effectiveness of both their own products, and traditional medicine. As you well know, Tom, if someone has a motivation to lie, then you must assume that he or she is lying.
The 'testimonals' you've been reading online are obviously written and planted by the vitamin industry itself. It would be trivially easy to create hundreds and thousands of fake testimonials on dozens of different websites all established and run by the vitamin industry, and there's a massive financial incentive to do so.
If anything, evidence indicates that the vitamin industry may just be another arm of big pharma: customers dissatisfied with their traditional products can (unknowingly) purchase their 'alternative, natural' products. Those customers will either get better and continue to purchase those products, or they'll stay the same/get worse and go back to traditional medicine. This works especially well if the customer gets sicker; they'll come back to big pharma and spend even more money than they otherwise would have. Thus, there is a massive financial incentive for the 'vitamin' industry (big pharma) to make you sick.
Some anecdotes that prove my hypothesis to be indisputable fact:
The vitamin industry isn't 'natural': http://blog.healthkismet.com/an-insider-reveals-the-darkest-secrets-of-the-supplement-industry
Nearly all supplements are synthetic. A few, like Vitamin E, are isolated from refined soybean oil. They are not natural in any way. The big con is that people think if they get supplements from a health food store, a drug store, a naturopath, or a chiropractor, that they are getting different products. The only real difference is the fillers. The vitamin c from the drug store is no different than the vitamin c from the naturopath. Both are synthesized using the Reichstein Process.
[...]
Unfortunately, there is no real way for the consumer to be able to figure this out, because companies will lie and give people the run around. The people and practitioners who sell supplements are also no help because they have no real knowledge of what goes on behind the scenes; they only know what the companies tell them.
[...]
Vitamin companies are not little mom and pop companies. It is a huge, multi-billion dollar industry. All the green washing and pretending they care is just about making money. So, do not fall for it.
The vitamin industry is in collusion with corporate farming to covertly sell more GMO corn: http://www.undergroundhealth.com/the-10-worst-toxins-hidden-in-vitamins-supplements-and-health-foods/
Here’s another whopper that’s sure to open some eyes: Nearly all the “vitamin C” sold in vitamins across America right now is derived from GMO corn.
This means that many of the supplements sold at Whole Foods, the vitamins sold on Amazon.com, the pills at your local pharmacy, and especially the products at the grocery store are (nearly) all routinely made with genetically modified vitamin C. It’s typically called “ascorbic acid,” and nearly 100% of the ascorbic acid used in the natural products industry is derived from GMOs.
Sourcing non-GMO vitamin C requires you to go outside the United States. There is no existing supply chain of certified organic, non-GMO ascorbic acid available anywhere in America (at least not to my knowledge). You can’t even run batches of non-GMO ascorbic acid production in the USA because all the facilities are contaminated with residues of GM corn.
The vitamin industry is using our own ignorance to keep us sick from birth: http://www.mommypotamus.com/what-the-vitamin-industry-does-not-want-you-to-know/
Unless your child has been tested extensively for nutritional deficiencies (one or two broad tests do not represent a true picture), you’re effectively supplementing in the dark. Throwing random doses of things into the mix is not a good idea, because if you give your child too much of something they don’t need their body will use precious stores of other vitamins/minerals to metabolise and get rid of it.
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10/10
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This idea that Vitamin C cures all sounds an awful lot like the phosphorus tonic that Dr. Birley used to push back in the day.
I see no reason to believe that phosphorous cannot cure a disease. There are many substance you can fill your body with that can kill diseases.
A tiny bacterium can be killed in many ways. Radiation, included. Those stories of people curing themselves of chronic illnesses and cancers by sitting in radioactive mines is absolutely true. Many of the stories of people curing themselves by drinking "holy water" are also true. There is a spring in France and a fountain in Florida where thousands of people around the world flock to in hopes of curing themselves. People with bodies riddled with cancers can have their malignancy halted over a weekend. Followup tests on these water cures almost always show that the water is irradiated. These radioactive springs and wells were heavily promoted in early 1900's America and were very popular. Some of these people took in too much radiation and die of radiation poisoning, which caused the government to ban the therapy.
Things like Vitamin C, Colloidal Silver, Iodine are less harmful than radiation, and have communities around those substances to promote their effectiveness. It is my belief, however, that Vitamin C is the substance most natural to the body and therefore the least damaging. The body already uses Vitamin C to combat disease, and can better move it in concentration to the places it needs to be. The body can better handle the aftermath of an anti-oxidant coming through and wiping out diseases because it was built to handle that.
There is a cure-all to almost all diseases. It's called the Human Body. It is already universally agreed that the human body fights its own diseases. No one disputes that. Most believe that the Human Body fights cancer to the best of its ability. It follows, therefore, that if you boost the immune system, give it the ammunition it needs, that the body can cure itself. How many people are telling you to eat your fruits and vegetables? Everyone. It's good for you, it keeps you healthy, nourished, and will prevent diseases by giving the human body the resources it needs. If you believe that, then you already believe that vitamins can cure disease. It should come to no surprise that mega-doses of vitamins will have a positive effect on a body fighting for its life.
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We're just giving him more cannon fodder at this point.
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Your analogy fails because we are not trying to determine if a single event occured, we are trying to determine if Vitamin C is actually a cure for... everything. Your testimony strikes me as something not unlike claims that faith healing works.
It is agreed universally that the Human Body fights its own disease to the best of its ability. I've seen no dispute of that. Enhance the human body, give it the resources it needs, you're fighting any disease the human body can fight --which is all of them. There is no quackery. There is nothing new here.
The current Ebola outbreak has a 60% mortality rate (depending on who you talk to). 40% survives. But how did these 40%, or whatever percentage, of these people survive? What is the magic cure they used? The cure-all they used was their own healthy body. The body recognized the disease, despite never having encountered it before, and was able to fight it off. A cure for Ebola!! Magic faith healing quackery, right?
Do those people still die of pancreatic cancer or not? If 100% of them lived, I would agree that it is a cure for pancreatic cancer.
People most likely died. Not everyone follows the instructions of their physician to come in twice a week for their injections. Vitamin C IVs, not being FDA approved, is also not covered by insurance, meaning these people would have had to pay for the shots themselves, which can get costly and tempt them to skip treatments or go through some other alternative they read about to spread their chips.
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Things like Vitamin C, Colloidal Silver, Iodine are less harmful than radiation, and have communities around those substances to promote their effectiveness.
Just because a group of people vouch for the beneficial properties of these 'remedies' and 'cure-alls' doesn't mean they actually do anything. In fact, colloidal silver is more dangerous than helpful. Silver builds up in the body and can cause all sorts of adverse reactions, including permanent argyria (blue colored skin).
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This idea that Vitamin C cures all sounds an awful lot like the phosphorus tonic that Dr. Birley used to push back in the day.
(Very bad summation of the immune system's capabilities)
You are assuming, without good evidence, that there is no upper bound to the immune system's ability to fight off infection. What do you do about infection's that trick the immune system in to thinking that it is not an infection? What do you do about an infection that kills the immune system?
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Things like Vitamin C, Colloidal Silver, Iodine are less harmful than radiation, and have communities around those substances to promote their effectiveness.
Just because a group of people vouch for the beneficial properties of these 'remedies' and 'cure-alls' doesn't mean they actually do anything. In fact, colloidal silver is more dangerous than helpful. Silver builds up in the body and can cause all sorts of adverse reactions, including permanent argyria (blue colored skin).
Colloidal silver is not, and has never been dangerous. The old kind of Colloidal Silver with the larger particle sizes may have had a risk of turning skin blue if you drank gallons of it, as some people have. But it was never lethal. The modern kind of Colloidal Silver is made with nano-sized silver particles and can flow in and out of cells cleanly. There is no risk of silver building up in the skin. No one has gotten blue skin with modern silver products.
Did you know that Colloidal Silver was the antibiotic of choice before antibiotics were invented? The health benefits of silver had been known for centuries. Royalty and the rich ate and drank from silver utensils and were rarely sick. The Greeks and Romans used to store all of their perishable liquids in silver containers. Prior to the invention of refrigeration, it was common practice to drop a silver coin into a container of milk to retard spoilage. It was used during the Civil War for wound infections.
When the first commercially available antibiotics became available Colloidal Silver was dropped from the medical field like a bag of rocks. There is no profit in Colloidal Silver, and so no reason to give it to people when there is an alternative to profit from. The FDA, a tool of the pharmaceutical companies, engaged in a smear campaign, highlighting the few people who took Colloidal Silver in excess, in an effort to ban the substance from consumer use. But the campaign was too late. There was, and still is, a lot of demand in silver, by survivors of numerous incurable diseases, fueled by catalogs of miraculous survival stories dating hundreds of years, that the product remains on the shelf.
You are assuming, without good evidence, that there is no upper bound to the immune system's ability to fight off infection.
The upper bounds to the body's ability to fight off disease is unknown, but we know that people with Stage 4 cancer, on their deathbeds and given 2 weeks to live, have seen complete turn around via Vitamin C.
Some people at that stage, on the other hand, have not been cured. Whether their immune systems were too weak and crippled by any chemotherapy they had done, the disease, or whether they just didn't get enough Vitamin C, is unknown.
What do you do about infection's that trick the immune system in to thinking that it is not an infection? What do you do about an infection that kills the immune system?
Secondly, infections don't trick the immune system into thinking that it is not an infection. This is a falsity of the medical system, used to explain mysteries such as why women can have yeast infections but have normal blood white blood cell counts. If there was infection, white-blood cell counts should be elevated as the body fights off the disease, but this is not seen in a yeast infection.
The body doesn't go into overdrive when there is a yeast infection because it is not an infection, but an overgrowth due to a failing somewhere in the immune system. Yeast is not an opponent, but a friend. The body lives in symbiotic harmony with yeast, and needs it to survive, just like the other kinds of friendly bacteria that live within us. Something in the body which inhibits the yeast failed, usually because resources were diverted to combat another disease, and the yeast overgrew to cause the irritation. The body isn't going crazy to deploy killer T-cells with a fingerprint of the yeast stamped on the homing beacon, because yeast is a friend, there is some risk to doing that, and it has worse things to worry about than some easily reversed smelly irritation that will be resolved once the more dangerous secondary condition is dealt with. By taking Vitamin C, the secondary condition the body is fighting can be resolved and the body can then resort resources to ensure that everything is in balance again.
What do you do about an infection that kills the immune system?
If your immune system were killed off you would be dead within 20 minutes. Nothing can be done, because you are a gonner.
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Yeah, Tomothy - you're making it sound like nature was generous enough to provide every human with the means to defeat every ailment given that they supplement their bodies with enough vitamins. That simply isn't true. The body can always fight back in some way, but in some cases it's simply impossible for it to win.
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The healing properties of colloidal silver have never been documented in any reputable medical journal. Ever. The beneficial effects of silver, if there are any, are not known. In 1915 there was an article about the concoction being able to treat tumors, but even that is unconfirmed. Regardless of what you say, argyria has been reported recently, although it is not common. It is just a cosmetic side-effect, but there are other more serious side-effects associated with colloidal silver: like seizures and kidney failure.
Once again, the risks outweigh the reward.
Also, the FDA proposed to ban the use of colloidal silver or silver salts in over-the-counter products in October 1996 because of these reasons and others.
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You are assuming, without good evidence, that there is no upper bound to the immune system's ability to fight off infection.
The upper bounds to the body's ability to fight off disease is unknown, but we know that people with Stage 4 cancer, on the deathbeds and given 2 weeks to live, have seen complete turn around cures via Vitamin C.
Some people at that stage, on the other hand, have not been cured. Whether their immune systems were too weak and crippled by any chemotherapy they had done, the disease, or whether they just didn't get enough Vitamin C, is unknown.
Or whether you can even get enough Vitamin to significantly impact a serious disease, or whether Vitamin C even does what you claim it does. We don't know do we? Your reliance on anecdotes is not doing any favors either.
What do you do about infection's that trick the immune system in to thinking that it is not an infection? What do you do about an infection that kills the immune system?
Secondly, infections don't trick the immune system into thinking that it is not an infection.
Incorrect. Dengue Fever tricks the immune system. It is well studied and understood. (inb4bigpharmaisbehindthelies)
http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/host-response-to-the-dengue-virus-22402106
What do you do about an infection that kills the immune system?
If your immune system were killed off you would be dead within 20 minutes. Nothing can be done, because you are a gonner.
An exaggeration, but yes, and they do exist, like AIDS. You can live longer than 20 minutes, but you need to be in a clean room.
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If you have have questions about the FDA ban on colloidal silver, here's a great reference from the FDA themselves...
http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/98fr/081799a.txt
Here's a direct quote:
"The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is issuing a final rule establishing that all over-the-counter (OTC) drug products containing colloidal silver ingredients or silver salts for internal or external use are not generally recognized as safe and effective and are misbranded. FDA is issuing this final rule because many OTC drug products containing colloidal silver ingredients or silver salts are being marketed for numerous serious disease conditions and FDA is not aware of any substantial scientific evidence that supports the use of OTC colloidal silver ingredients or silver salts for these disease conditions."
What do you think about this, Tom?
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This idea that Vitamin C cures all sounds an awful lot like the phosphorus tonic that Dr. Birley used to push back in the day.
I see no reason to believe that phosphorous cannot cure a disease.
As I recall, Dr. Birley's claimed that phosphorous could cure pretty much every disease. In fact, countless snake oil salesmen pushed patent medicines that were hailed as cures for whatever ails you. Why should anyone trust your claims of vitamin c's almost magical curative abilities when there have been countless testimonials for these earlier cure-alls?
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The healing properties of colloidal silver have never been documented in any reputable medical journal. Ever. The beneficial effects of silver, if there are any, are not known. In 1915 there was an article about the concoction being able to treat tumors, but even that is unconfirmed. Regardless of what you say, argyria has been reported recently, although it is not common. It is just a cosmetic side-effect, but there are other more serious side-effects associated with colloidal silver: like seizures and kidney failure.
Once again, the risks outweigh the reward.
Also, the FDA proposed to ban the use of colloidal silver or silver salts in over-the-counter products in October 1996 because of these reasons and others.
That's funny. A simple google search of "collidial silver studies" shows that there are plenty of studies (http://www.thesilveredge.com/studies.shtml#.VCylzPldU1I). At the bottom of this article (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/02/07/new-guidelines-released-for-safe-usage-of-colloidal-silver-supplements.aspx) we see references to studies from universities showing that Collidial Silver can treat deadly antibiotic-resistant MSRA infections.
If you have have questions about the FDA ban on colloidal silver, here's a great reference from the FDA themselves...
http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/98fr/081799a.txt
Here's a direct quote:
"The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is issuing a final rule establishing that all over-the-counter (OTC) drug products containing colloidal silver ingredients or silver salts for internal or external use are not generally recognized as safe and effective and are misbranded. FDA is issuing this final rule because many OTC drug products containing colloidal silver ingredients or silver salts are being marketed for numerous serious disease conditions and FDA is not aware of any substantial scientific evidence that supports the use of OTC colloidal silver ingredients or silver salts for these disease conditions."
What do you think about this, Tom?
That the FDA means is that no modern studies have been published in the big pharmaceutical research journals. That is because, surprise surprise, pharmaceutical research is funded by the pharmaceutical companies. Conducting research on a substance that serves no profit, and results only in competition to their existing products would not get out of the gate.
See: http://www.thesilveredge.com/before1940.shtml#.VCysefldU1I
Medical bureaucrats and other colloidal silver naysayers routinely claim that the modern-day use of colloidal silver constitutes “risk without benefit.”
They go on to claim ad nauseum that there’s no modern medical or scientific evidence for the efficacy of colloidal silver.
What They Omit
What the naysayers always fail to state is that there’s a very good reason for the dearth of modern medical and scientific research on behalf of colloidal silver:
The medical community has simply refused to conduct any significant new large-scale research on colloidal silver since the first patented antibiotic drug (penicillin) came into widespread medical usage in 1940.
In fact, since the advent of prescription antibiotic drugs, the medical community has not conducted any significant medical research on any natural substances with infection-fighting qualities, except for those they could synthesize and turn into patentable drugs.
The bottom of that article lists some older studies which have appeared in reputable research journals.
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Also, remember that James has given us multiple firsthand accounts of the medical benefits of phosphorus.
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It seems that the colloidal silver cartel is just as greedy as big pharma:
Yes, that's right. It costs them about five cents to make four ounces worth of colloidal silver, yet greedy colloidal silver vendors charge you anywhere from $29 to $59 for that same tiny amount!
That's a whopping 60,000% mark-up on every bottle sold. No other nutritional supplement on earth is so cheap to make, yet so expensive to buy.
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Yeah, Tomothy - you're making it sound like nature was generous enough to provide every human with the means to defeat every ailment given that they supplement their bodies with enough vitamins. That simply isn't true. The body can always fight back in some way, but in some cases it's simply impossible for it to win.
Since the body always fights diseases in some way, as you claim, then it makes sense that if you can identify the ammunition the body uses to fight disease, which there would be a shortage of in a crisis, the body's disease-fighting capabilities can be enhanced.
Or whether you can even get enough Vitamin to significantly impact a serious disease, or whether Vitamin C even does what you claim it does. We don't know do we? Your reliance on anecdotes is not doing any favors either.
People have been cured of cancer. I've shown a video of a doctor who states that pancreatic cancer patients in his clinic who had a 1% survival rate were cured. Maybe they were actually cured by the yoga they've been doing in their spare time?
Here is a man who was told by his doctors to go home and die (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL_g5-6DCVQ). He was at Stage 4 and given a death sentence. After being put on Vitamin C IVs he recovered.
Incorrect. Dengue Fever tricks the immune system. It is well studied and understood. (inb4bigpharmaisbehindthelies)
http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/host-response-to-the-dengue-virus-22402106
That article does not state that the virus tricks the immune system into believing that it is not an infection. It clearly states that the immune system recognizes it as an infection:
How the Immune System Defeats the Dengue Virus
How can the body recover from a dengue infection? Although the dengue virus has tricked the immune system to infect cells and spread throughout the body, the immune system has additional defenses to fight the virus. The infected cells produce and release small proteins called interferons that are part of a large group of proteins called cytokines. Interferons have the ability to interfere with viral replication, and they activate both the innate and adaptive immune system defenses. They help the immune system recognize dengue-infected cells and help protect uninfected cells from infection. As the immune system fights the dengue infection, the person experiences a fever.
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It seems that the colloidal silver cartel is just as greedy as big pharma:
Yes, that's right. It costs them about five cents to make four ounces worth of colloidal silver, yet greedy colloidal silver vendors charge you anywhere from $29 to $59 for that same tiny amount!
That's a whopping 60,000% mark-up on every bottle sold. No other nutritional supplement on earth is so cheap to make, yet so expensive to buy.
The colloidal silver generators on the market which can make colloidal silver for pennies makes the old kind of colloidal silver which can make your skin blue. Most modern colloidal silver brands nave nano-sized particles and is worth the money if you intend on mega-dosing on the substance.
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This idea that Vitamin C cures all sounds an awful lot like the phosphorus tonic that Dr. Birley used to push back in the day.
I see no reason to believe that phosphorous cannot cure a disease.
As I recall, Dr. Birley's claimed that phosphorous could cure pretty much every disease. In fact, countless snake oil salesmen pushed patent medicines that were hailed as cures for whatever ails you. Why should anyone trust your claims of vitamin c's almost magical curative abilities when there have been countless testimonials for these earlier cure-alls?
As I said, there are a lot of things that can kill microscopic organisms like bacteria, fungus, and viruses. Magnets can. Radiation can. Colloidal Silver can. Iodine can. Lemon juice can - Lemon juice fasting is a thing. It's not really that hard to find something that can kill a disease. There are lots of things in nature that kill microscopic organisms. Some of those things in nature also fall under a natural human food source, which makes them safe for the body and dangerous for the disease.
Unfortunately nature cannot be patented. What is hard is to make a totally synthetic substance that can kill a disease, yet is safe for the host. Most synthetic substances are poisonous to both the host and disease. This is why many drugs have a list of possible side effects as long as your arm. It's poisoning both your body you and your disease. In order to make a profit, the medical industry must promote these types of substances. The profession seeks keep people stupid and uneducated about such things. The public is brainwashed into thinking that the doctor is the harbinger of all medical knowledge, when that is the furthest from the truth.
Doctors only provide solutions which involve filling you up with dangerous drugs and putting you through costly surgeries. They do not care to cleanse, detoxify, provide safe natural remedies, and educate patients on a healthy diet and lifestyle to avoid disease. That is not the business they're running.
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Damn. Where do you find such quack sites? I'm impressed.
Oh, and I fixed thesilveredge.com's banner...
(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/01/00f62e5cdc18704a424c8e82f5985b26.jpg)
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Those stories of people curing themselves of chronic illnesses and stage 4 cancers by sitting in radioactive mines is absolutely true. Many of the stories of people curing themselves by drinking "holy water" are also true. There is a spring in France and a fountain in Florida where thousands of people around the world flock to in hopes of curing themselves. People with bodies riddled with cancers can have their malignancy halted over a weekend. Followup tests on these water cures almost always show that the water is irradiated. These radioactive springs and wells were heavily promoted in early 1900's America and were very popular. Some of these people took in too much radiation and die of radiation poisoning, which caused the government to ban the therapy.
Things like Vitamin C, Colloidal Silver, Iodine are less harmful than radiation, and have communities around those substances to promote their effectiveness. It is my belief, however, that Vitamin C is the substance most natural to the body and therefore the least damaging. The body already uses Vitamin C to combat disease, and can better move it in concentration to the places it needs to be. The body can better handle the aftermath of an anti-oxidant coming through and wiping out diseases because it was built to handle that.
How do you know those stories to be absolutely true? Because you read them on the internet? Those stories could easily be fabrications. Which sounds simpler to you: that springs with magical healing properties are being completely overlooked by virtually everyone on the planet because doctors are somehow hiding them (although not very well, apparently); or, that these stories were fabricated by an industry with the means, opportunity, and billion-dollar motive to do so?
The vitamin industry is owned and operated by proven frauds and liars: http://www.justice.gov/atr/public/press_releases/1999/2450.htm
A Swiss pharmaceutical giant, F. Hoffmann-La Roche Ltd today agreed to plead guilty and pay a record $500 million criminal fine for leading a worldwide conspiracy to raise and fix prices and allocate market shares for certain vitamins sold in the United States and elsewhere, the Department of Justice announced. A German firm, BASF Aktiengesellschaft, also will plead guilty and pay a $225 million fine for its role in the same antitrust conspiracy, the Department said.
[...]
According to the charges, Hoffmann-La Roche and BASF agreed with the world's other major vitamin manufacturers to suppress and eliminate competition in the U.S. and elsewhere. The criminal cases charge that Hoffmann-La Roche, BASF, and Sommer, with unnamed co-conspirators:
Agreed to fix and raise prices on Vitamins A, B2, B5, C, E, Beta Carotene and vitamin premixes;
Agreed to allocate the volume of sales and market shares of such vitamins;
Agreed to divide contracts to supply vitamin premixes to customers in the U.S. by rigging the bids for those contracts; and,
Participated in meetings and conversations to monitor and enforce adherence to the agreed-upon prices and market shares.
Oh look, more vita-frauds admitting to price-fixing. These people are proven liars and cannot be trusted: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324392804578360762865474642
On Thursday, after less than a day of deliberations, it found Hebei Welcome Pharmaceutical Co. and affiliated company North China Pharmaceutical Group Corp. liable for fixing prices on vitamin C for several years[...]The vitamin C makers generally didn't dispute that they acted together to set prices.
Wake up, vitamin shrill. The vitamin C you're buying was industrially produced by Big Pharma. You're buying it from proven frauds and liars: http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2003732744_vitamins03.html
If you pop a vitamin C tablet in your mouth, it's a good bet it came from China. Indeed, many of the world's vitamins are now made in China.
In less than a decade, China has captured 90 percent of the U.S. market for vitamin C, driving almost everyone else out of business.
Chinese pharmaceutical companies also have taken over much of the world market in the production of antibiotics, analgesics, enzymes and primary amino acids. According to an industry group, China makes 70 percent of the world's penicillin, 50 percent of its aspirin and 35 percent of its acetaminophen (often sold under the brand name Tylenol), as well as the bulk of vitamins A, B12, C and E.
Oh, you get your vitamin C from Europe? Don't worry, DSM isn't a member of Big Pharma, and they have absolutely no connections to any of the liars and frauds in China: http://www.dsm.com/corporate/media/informationcenter-news/2014/07/27-14-dsm-to-acquire-aland-china.html
Royal DSM, the global Life Sciences and Materials Sciences company, announces today it has reached agreement to acquire Aland (HK) Holding Limited (“Aland”), a Hong Kong-based company producing vitamin C in mainland China[...]Acquiring Aland, one of the leading Vitamin C manufacturers in China, allows DSM to further strengthen its position in vitamin C. Aland increases DSM’s global footprint in vitamins for Human Nutrition & Health, Animal Nutrition & Health and Personal Care.
Big Pharma has two goals in the alternative medicine market: capture lost market share, and sell GMO corn (used for industrial vitamin C production). They stand to gain the most by using vitamins to make you sick and get you back into traditional medicine. That's why all of these vitamins are produced and sold by Big Pharma. These are inescapable facts.
Means, opportunity, and multi-billion dollar motivation to deceive? Check.
Proven track record of deception, lies, and fraud? Check.
Proven material connections between all of these fraudulent actors? Check, check, and check.
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Please wait while Tom loads a new quack theory to counter this ^
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How do you know those stories to be absolutely true? Because you read them on the internet? Those stories could easily be fabrications. Which sounds simpler to you: that springs with magical healing properties are being completely overlooked by virtually everyone on the planet because doctors are somehow hiding them (although not very well, apparently); or, that these stories were fabricated by an industry with the means, opportunity, and billion-dollar motive to do so?
Radiation isn't a magical healing property. Radiation is toxic to microscopic organisms. It is used in Chemotherapy to treat cancer. The area around Chernobyl is interesting in that the forests are not decaying properly (http://www.smithsonianmag.com/ist/?next=/science-nature/forests-around-chernobyl-arent-decaying-properly-180950075/) due to radiation in the area. Microscopic organisms can't live there.
Radiation is also damaging to humans, to a lesser degree. The trick is to kill the disease before the host. Treating yourself with radiation isn't really something I advise, and not really what is meant by natural in these discussions. Radiation is natural in nature, but not natural to humans like Vitamin C, iodine, lemon juice, various herbs like Oregano Oil, Coconut Oil, Cats Claw, Tumeric, etc, are.
The arguments like "Not everything that's natural is good for you. Rattlesnake poison is natural!" fall flat because what is meant when you hear that natural substances are better for you is that substances natural to the human body are better for you. Not star plasma, clearly. The body recognizes things like vitamins and plants and knows how to process them.
But, the stories of people curing themselves with radioactive water are generally true nonetheless. Water form radioactive springs was popular 100 years ago (http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2004-08/healthy-glow-drink-radiation), and touted to cure disease. There is water which flows from a spring in the Grotto of Massabielle in the Sanctuary of Our Lady of Lourdes, France, a historical site where thousands of people have traveled in search of a cure since the 1800's, and still do today. The internet is littered (http://listverse.com/2014/02/20/10-amazing-stories-of-supernatural-healing-at-lourdes/) with (http://savvytraveler.publicradio.org/show/features/1999/19990403/lourdes.shtml) stories (http://fathersforgood.typepad.com/fathersforgood/2009/02/a-miracle-at-lourdes.html) about Lourdes. It's also a topic of discussion on forums like curezone.com and others, where people claim to have seen benefit. It's a historical miracle spot maintained by the Vatican, which maintains a hospital near the spring to accommodate visitors in search of a cure.
When radiation was first discovered, it was quickly realized that the holy water from these springs was irradiated.
http://www.radiation-hormesis.com/
The major scientists working on radiation during the 1800s and early 1900s had already shown that low level radioactivity was beneficial for living things. Plants and animals grew bigger, reproduced better, had fewer cancers and infectious diseases and had a longer lifespan
...
J. J. Thompson, discoverer of the electron, found radioactivity in well water in 1903. Within a year scientists throughout the world discovered that all famous healing hot springs such as Lourdes in France or Bath in the UK were radioactive.
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The vitamin industry is owned and operated by proven frauds and liars: http://www.justice.gov/atr/public/press_releases/1999/2450.htm
A Swiss pharmaceutical giant, F. Hoffmann-La Roche Ltd today agreed to plead guilty and pay a record $500 million criminal fine for leading a worldwide conspiracy to raise and fix prices and allocate market shares for certain vitamins sold in the United States and elsewhere, the Department of Justice announced. A German firm, BASF Aktiengesellschaft, also will plead guilty and pay a $225 million fine for its role in the same antitrust conspiracy, the Department said.
[...]
According to the charges, Hoffmann-La Roche and BASF agreed with the world's other major vitamin manufacturers to suppress and eliminate competition in the U.S. and elsewhere. The criminal cases charge that Hoffmann-La Roche, BASF, and Sommer, with unnamed co-conspirators:
Agreed to fix and raise prices on Vitamins A, B2, B5, C, E, Beta Carotene and vitamin premixes;
Agreed to allocate the volume of sales and market shares of such vitamins;
Agreed to divide contracts to supply vitamin premixes to customers in the U.S. by rigging the bids for those contracts; and,
Participated in meetings and conversations to monitor and enforce adherence to the agreed-upon prices and market shares.
Oh look, more vita-frauds admitting to price-fixing. These people are proven liars and cannot be trusted: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324392804578360762865474642
On Thursday, after less than a day of deliberations, it found Hebei Welcome Pharmaceutical Co. and affiliated company North China Pharmaceutical Group Corp. liable for fixing prices on vitamin C for several years[...]The vitamin C makers generally didn't dispute that they acted together to set prices.
Wake up, vitamin shrill. The vitamin C you're buying was industrially produced by Big Pharma. You're buying it from proven frauds and liars: http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2003732744_vitamins03.html
If you pop a vitamin C tablet in your mouth, it's a good bet it came from China. Indeed, many of the world's vitamins are now made in China.
In less than a decade, China has captured 90 percent of the U.S. market for vitamin C, driving almost everyone else out of business.
Chinese pharmaceutical companies also have taken over much of the world market in the production of antibiotics, analgesics, enzymes and primary amino acids. According to an industry group, China makes 70 percent of the world's penicillin, 50 percent of its aspirin and 35 percent of its acetaminophen (often sold under the brand name Tylenol), as well as the bulk of vitamins A, B12, C and E.
Oh, you get your vitamin C from Europe? Don't worry, DSM isn't a member of Big Pharma, and they have absolutely no connections to any of the liars and frauds in China: http://www.dsm.com/corporate/media/informationcenter-news/2014/07/27-14-dsm-to-acquire-aland-china.html
Royal DSM, the global Life Sciences and Materials Sciences company, announces today it has reached agreement to acquire Aland (HK) Holding Limited (“Aland”), a Hong Kong-based company producing vitamin C in mainland China[...]Acquiring Aland, one of the leading Vitamin C manufacturers in China, allows DSM to further strengthen its position in vitamin C. Aland increases DSM’s global footprint in vitamins for Human Nutrition & Health, Animal Nutrition & Health and Personal Care.
Big Pharma has two goals in the alternative medicine market: capture lost market share, and sell GMO corn (used for industrial vitamin C production). They stand to gain the most by using vitamins to make you sick and get you back into traditional medicine. That's why all of these vitamins are produced and sold by Big Pharma. These are inescapable facts.
Means, opportunity, and multi-billion dollar motivation to deceive? Check.
Proven track record of deception, lies, and fraud? Check.
Proven material connections between all of these fraudulent actors? Check, check, and check.
Chinese pharmaceutical companies are not the authority on Vitamin C. The authorities on Vitamin C are the people who are writing the books and conducting studies. Vitamin C was first popularized by a Chemist named Linus Pauling, a Nobel Prize winner, who published books and studies on the benefits of Vitamin C, bringing the benefits into the public eye, campaigning for over 30 years for the substance to be recognized as a medical treatment.
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Tom, its 2014. People don't die of scurvy any more. You are very easily able to get all the vitamin C you need from your food assuming you just eat a few veggies now and again. A person needs about 40mg a day (Source) (http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/vitamins-minerals/Pages/Vitamin-C.aspx). An orange has about 45mg of vitamin C, so its pretty easy to get what you need.
Your kidneys begin to eliminate vitamin C that was absorbed, but not yet metabolized, as you consume more than 80 milligrams daily. Anything above 400mg a day is just peed straight out.
Taking above 1000mg a day increases your chances of getting kidney stones dramatically. It can also cause cramps and diarrhoea. Too much of anything will kill you, vitamin C included.
So instead of eating your way through a packet of pills, just eat normal healthy food to stay healthy and give yourself the best chance of fighting any disease you may have. Its pretty obvious.
Now the nutbars at the vitamin C foundation recommend you take 4000 to 12000mg in one dose to cure ebola. It will cure ebola. The virus will die once your body turns cold. Being as they sell vitamin C for $50 for 50000mg, I can see why they might suggest you take that much, but I don't think it has much to do with your health.
https://inteligentvitaminc.com//cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=29
Frankly this is like telling people they need more leeches.
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The RDA for Vitamin C is what a normal, healthy person needs for continued everyday survival. Eating an orange is fine, if you're healthy.
But when the body is sick and under a lot of stress, the RDA doesn't cut it. The amount of Vitamin C required rises dramatically.
Read this study by Dr. Cathcart:
http://www.doctoryourself.com/cathcart_thirdface.html
The Third Face of Vitamin C
Robert F. Cathcart, M.D.
Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine, 7:4;197-200, 1993.
ABSTRACT
Bowel tolerance to orally ingested ascorbic acid increases with the toxicity of diseases. Bowel tolerance with a disease such as mononucleosis may reach 200 or more grams per 24 hours without it producing diarrhea. A marked clinical amelioration or cure is achieved in many disease processes when threshold doses near bowel tolerance are given. In a sense, it is the reducing equivalents carried by free radical scavengers that quench free radicals, not the free radical scavengers themselves. Ascorbic acid can be dramatically useful in quenching free radicals because it is usually tolerated in amounts necessary to provide the reducing equivalents necessary to quench almost all the free radicals generated by severe disease processes. Vitamin C functions are incidental at these dose levels; the benefit is from the reducing equivalents carried. To the extent that free radicals are either essential to the perpetuation of a disease or just part of the cause of symptoms, the disease will be cured or just ameliorated. These effects are even more dramatic from intravenous sodium ascorbate.
...
Secondly, the claim that absorbic acid causes kidney stones is a scare. It really only happens under rare and special circumstances.
http://www.doctoryourself.com/klennerpaper.html
How concerned should we be about oxalic acid and kidney stones? A technical explanation.
One of the "scare" weapons used by the critics on high daily doses of ascorbic acid is the oxalic acid-kidney stone hypothesis. Meakins[36] states that the chief factors in the formation of renal calculi are perversions of metabolic processes, infection and stasis in the urinary tract. There are two schools of thought on stone formation: 1) That there is a central nucleus of colloids on which the crystalloids are precipitated; 2) That the crystalloids are deposited from the urine in which they are present in concentrated solution, in which salt and hydrogen ion concentrations are important factors. In all cases stasis and a concentrated urine appear to be the chief physiological factors. The only way that oxalic acid can be produced from ascorbic acid is through splitting of the lactone ring. This happens above pH5. The reaction of urine when 10 grams of vitamin C is taken daily is usually pH6. Oxalic acid precipitates out of solution only from a neutral or alkaline solution-pH7 to pH10. Kelli and Zilva[37] reported that "Nutrition experiments showed that dehydroascorbic acid is protected in vivo from rapid transformation to the antiscorbutically impotent diketogulonic acid from which oxalic acid is derived." Values reported in the literature for normal 24 hour urinary oxalate excretions for humans range from 14 mg to 56 mg. Lamden et al.[38] found in a group of volunteers that the ingestion of 9 grams ascorbic acid daily resulted in oxalate spills as high as 68 mg for 24 hours and in the controls without extra vitamin C the high was 64 mg for a 24 hour period.
These critics have overlooked the individual with diabetes mellitus. The amount of oxalic acid found in the diabetic patient approximates that found in the urine of a normal person taking 10 grams vitamin C each day. With the diabetic we find a paradox. Give this individual 10 grams ascorbic acid daily, by mouth, and the urinary oxalate excretion remains relatively unchanged. Diabetics are known for their diuresis. The individual who takes 10 or more grams of vitamin C each day will find that this organic compound is an excellent diuretic. No urinary stasis; no urine concentration.
The ascorbic acid kidney stone story is a myth. Methylene blue will dissolve calcium oxalate stones giving 65 mg orally 2 to 3 times a day. (Dr. M. J. Vernon Smith: Med. World News, Dec. 4, 1970)
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Also, the link you posted from the Vitamin C Foundation is actually a manufacturer called the "Inteligent Vitamin C Store". Supplement companies are not the authority on Vitamin C. The closest actual foundation is the Linus Pauling Institute, a non-profit research institution. They don't sell products.
Aside from the duplicity of using the name of Vitamin C Foundation and portraying itself as some official organization, the amount of Liposomal Vitamin C on that website is well worth $50. Liposomal Vitamin C is not regular absorbic acid. It's a new form of Vitamin C, bonded to Lecithin, which is much better absorbed into the bloodstream, and more effective. It's an alternative to Intravenous Vitamin C therapy, which can get costly.
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Tom, you had a bunch of parasites or something trying to kill you a short while ago. Why were you so ill for so long when all you needed was a bit of Vitamin C?
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What sort of medicine do you consider to be unnatural, Tom?
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Tom, you had a bunch of parasites or something trying to kill you a short while ago. Why were you so ill for so long when all you needed was a bit of Vitamin C?
I did just need a bit of Vitamin C for my condition. It took me a while to discover that my doctor was a fraudulent health practitioner and a shill of the pharmaceutical companies. That's why I'm here telling people about natural remedies like Vitamin C now. When you take a large amount of Vitamin C, especially Lipospheric Vitamin C or a Vitamin C IV, you can feel it get to work immediately. Whatever pains you have in your body literally melt away, and you become incredibly clear of mind. If the disease has been beating down on your energy levels, Vitamin C will bring a boost of energy unlike anything you've felt before. You feel as if you can run a marathon, and jump from jump roof top to roof top, that nothing can stop you.
Vitamin C isn't everything, admittedly. I also discovered MSM, an organic sulfur contained in brocolli and other vegetables, which aids in general detoxification. Parasites and bad microorganisms thrive in a toxic, acidic environment. This is often why the sickly complain of inflamed and aching bodies. The diseases have turned your body into an environment more of its liking. MSM is a natural compound the body uses to strip away acid, normalize pH, coat surfaces with a compound hostile to parasites, and make cells throughout the body more permeable for other substances like Vitamin C to come into the cells to do its business. It makes it less likely that the diseases will return and regrow.
All of this helped me where $30,000 in exploring traditional medicine did not. Natural medicine truly is incredible.
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How do you know those stories to be absolutely true? Because you read them on the internet? Those stories could easily be fabrications. Which sounds simpler to you: that springs with magical healing properties are being completely overlooked by virtually everyone on the planet because doctors are somehow hiding them (although not very well, apparently); or, that these stories were fabricated by an industry with the means, opportunity, and billion-dollar motive to do so?
But, the stories of people curing themselves with radioactive water are generally true nonetheless. Water form radioactive springs was popular 100 years ago (http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2004-08/healthy-glow-drink-radiation), and touted to cure disease. There is water which flows from a spring in the Grotto of Massabielle in the Sanctuary of Our Lady of Lourdes, France, a historical site where thousands of people have traveled in search of a cure since the 1800's, and still do today. The internet is littered (http://listverse.com/2014/02/20/10-amazing-stories-of-supernatural-healing-at-lourdes/) with (http://savvytraveler.publicradio.org/show/features/1999/19990403/lourdes.shtml) stories (http://fathersforgood.typepad.com/fathersforgood/2009/02/a-miracle-at-lourdes.html) about Lourdes. It's also a topic of discussion on forums like curezone.com and others, where people claim to have seen benefit. It's a historical miracle spot maintained by the Vatican, which maintains a hospital near the spring to accommodate visitors in search of a cure.
You didn't answer my questions. You claim that these wells cure diseases. You said these claims about radioactive springs and vitamin C and all that are "absolutely true." Can you prove that? How do you know that these stories are true? How do you know that they aren't fabrications?
Chinese pharmaceutical companies are not the authority on Vitamin C. The authorities on Vitamin C are the people who are writing the books and conducting studies. Vitamin C was first popularized by a Chemist named Linus Pauling, a Nobel Prize winner, who published books and studies on the benefits of Vitamin C, bringing the benefits into the public eye, campaigning for over 30 years for the substance to be recognized as a medical treatment.
Let's talk about Linus Pauling. Let's also talk about Hoffman-La Roche, the pharmaceutical company that used to dominate the vitamin C market until being convicted of leading a price-fixing cartel in the largest anti-trust case ever decided in the US. Guess what? They funded and reviewed Pauling work. Whoops.
Pauing's vitamin C research was funded by frauds and liars: http://worldtracker.org/media/library/Science/Science%20Magazine/science%20magazine%201981-1982/Science%201981-1982/root/data/Science_1981-1982/pdf/1981_v212_n4499/p4499_1126.pdf
Pauling - says, "We live a hand-to-mouth existence here." But despite the lack of NCI funding, his research in vitamin C has continued with money provided by private donations and the Hoffmann-La Roche Foundation. A spokeswoman from Hoffmann-La Roche says Pauling received a grant for his "interesting theories, but more data needs to be generated to support his ideas."
http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/pauling.html
The Linus Pauling Institute of Science and Medicine was founded in 1973 and operated under that name until 1995 [20]. The institute was dedicated to "orthomolecular medicine." For many years, its largest corporate donor was Hoffmann-La Roche, the pharmaceutical giant that produces most of the world's vitamin C.
http://scienceblogs.com/seed/2006/04/10/science-marches-on-over-linus/
The real trouble started when other researchers tried–and failed–to replicate his results. Despite exhaustive examination, today the efficacy of vitamin C as a cold and flu treatment remains questionable. Three successive studies by the prestigious Mayo Clinic testing orally administered vitamin C demonstrated no significant cancer-fighting effects. Additionally, it was revealed that Hoffman-La Roche, a company that at the time produced most of the world’s vitamin C supplements, extensively funded Pauling’s Institute.
Or maybe you'd like to hear it from Pauling himself. (http://www.casewatch.org/board/med/gerber/pauling_1984.pdf)
A. No. No. Well, $300,000.00 over what time period? They give us $100,000.00 per year. We have to sort of squeeze it out of them, but we've managed to get it for several years now.
Q. So you have donations of $100,000.00 per year from Hoffman-La Roche?
A. That's right.
These same liars and frauds are the ones who reviewed The Pauling Institute's research. That's super legit. You can totally trust Hoffmann-La Roche to be honest with you about how much of their vitamin C you should be buying.
Like this research paper: (http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/cognition.html)
Written in February 2011 by:
Victoria J. Drake, Ph.D.
Linus Pauling Institute
Oregon State University
Reviewed in February 2011 by:
Juerg Haller, Ph.D.
F. Hoffman-La Roche Ltd
Basel, Switzerland
The study was paid for by Bayer, though, so nbd. They're not a giant of big pharma or anything.
I wasn't saying that China is an authority on vitamin C. I was saying that if you're taking it, then you bought it from big pharma. There's a reason for that. You think you're abandoning traditional medicine for naturalist medicine. You aren't. You're just buying a different big pharma product, researched and marketed by convicted frauds.
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What sort of medicine do you consider to be unnatural, Tom?
Pharmaceutical drugs are unnatural. Chemotherapy is unnatural. Gallbladder removal surgery is unnatural. Basically everything a regular physcian does to teat disease is unnatural.
My Naturopathic Physician cures far more people of cancer with his Vitamin C IVs than a radiologist does, presuming his patients follow directions. He cures chronic conditions which are considered incurable in allopathic medicine. I would bet my life on it, as well as my family's.
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Pharmaceutical drugs are unnatural.
Most pharmaceutical drugs occur in nature. For example, one of the most prominent and well known antibiotics, Penicillin, naturally occurs as a mold.
Chemotherapy is unnatural.
See above.
Gallbladder removal surgery is unnatural.
That's not a type of medicine, Tom.
Basically everything a regular physcian does to teat disease is unnatural.
You must have a strange definition of the term natural.
My Naturopathic Physician cures 5 to 10 times more people of cancer with his Vitamin C IVs than a radiologist does, presuming his patients follow directions. He cures chronic conditions which are considered incurable in allopathic medicine. I would bet my life on natural medicine, as well as the life of my family
Why do I even bother? I told myself not to fall for this. God dammit.
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Most pharmaceutical drugs occur in nature. For example, one of the most prominent and well known antibiotics, Penicillin, naturally occurs as a mold.
Penicillin is not natural to the human body.
Please recall:
"The arguments like 'Not everything that's natural is good for you. Rattlesnake poison is natural!' fall flat because what is meant when you hear that natural substances are better for you is that substances natural to the human body are better for you. Not star plasma, clearly. The body recognizes things like vitamins and plants and knows how to process them."
Gallbladder removal surgery is unnatural.
That's not a type of medicine, Tom.
Western medicine is a concept that encompasses more than just drugs.
Medicine Definition
dictionary.search.yahoo.com
n. noun
- The science and art of diagnosing and treating disease or injury and maintaining health.
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Most pharmaceutical drugs occur in nature. For example, one of the most prominent and well known antibiotics, Penicillin, naturally occurs as a mold.
Penicillin is not natural to the human body.
That depends on how you define "natural to the human body". One could argue that since the human body does not make or store vitamin C, then it isn't "natural to the human body" either.
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Penicillin is not natural to the human body.
Please recall:
"The arguments like 'Not everything that's natural is good for you. Rattlesnake poison is natural!' fall flat because what is meant when you hear that natural substances are better for you is that substances natural to the human body are better for you. Not star plasma, clearly. The body recognizes things like vitamins and plants and knows how to process them."
But Tom, this isn't your argument. Your argument is that natural medicine is better, not medicine natural to the body is better. Furthermore, as Markjo pointed out, most substances aren't produced by the body, including protein.
Western medicine is a concept that encompasses more than just drugs.
Medicine Definition
dictionary.search.yahoo.com
n. noun
- The science and art of diagnosing and treating disease or injury and maintaining health.
Two can play this game, Tom:
med·i·cine
noun \ˈme-də-sən, British usually ˈmed-sən\
: a substance that is used in treating disease or relieving pain and that is usually in the form of a pill or a liquid
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My Naturopathic Physician cures 5 to 10 times more people of cancer with his Vitamin C IVs than a radiologist does, presuming his patients follow directions.
Citation required.
He cures chronic conditions which are considered incurable in allopathic medicine.
Citation required.
I would bet my life on natural medicine, as well as the life of my family
Yes, we know.
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You didn't answer my questions. You claim that these wells cure diseases. You said these claims about radioactive springs and vitamin C and all that are "absolutely true." Can you prove that? How do you know that these stories are true? How do you know that they aren't fabrications?
I've seen these people post on the health forums I frequent. There are stories littered all around the internet about these things, from multiple sources. News organizations have reported on this spring over the last 150 years, and Vitamin C over the last 60. Corroboration from multiple unconnected sources constitutes evidence.
Let's talk about Linus Pauling. Let's also talk about Hoffman-La Roche, the pharmaceutical company that used to dominate the vitamin C market until being convicted of leading a price-fixing cartel in the largest anti-trust case ever decided in the US. Guess what? They funded and reviewed Pauling work. Whoops.
So what? They may have thought that there was a chance that Vitamin C would become a standard treatment at the time and their domination of the Vitamin C market would become extremely valuable. That's good on them for supporting a natural substance.
http://scienceblogs.com/seed/2006/04/10/science-marches-on-over-linus/
The real trouble started when other researchers tried–and failed–to replicate his results. Despite exhaustive examination, today the efficacy of vitamin C as a cold and flu treatment remains questionable. Three successive studies by the prestigious Mayo Clinic testing orally administered vitamin C demonstrated no significant cancer-fighting effects. Additionally, it was revealed that Hoffman-La Roche, a company that at the time produced most of the world’s vitamin C supplements, extensively funded Pauling’s Institute.
The Mayo clinic used low oral doses in an attempt to refute Pauling's work, when the work clearly called for high dose Intravenous Vitamin C.
See this article: Vitamin C, Linus Pauling was right all along. A doctor's opinion (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/12154.php)
Pauling had performed a series of trials with Dr Ewan Cameron, a Scottish cancer specialist, showing that intravenous vitamin C allowed cancer patients to live much longer than expected. Numerous other studies confirmed this effect, particularly the work of Dr Abram Hoffer and Dr Hugh Riordan. The Mayo Clinic tried to refute this research but failed, as they used low, oral doses, making their results invalid. In their own cancer paper, the NIH researchers claimed that Pauling and Cameron's use of the IV route was "serendipitous", implying that Pauling did not know the difference between injected and oral doses. In fact, Pauling had written explicitly about this difference, so the NIH criticism was misplaced.
The study was paid for by Bayer, though, so nbd. They're not a giant of big pharma or anything.
I wasn't saying that China is an authority on vitamin C. I was saying that if you're taking it, then you bought it from big pharma. There's a reason for that. You think you're abandoning traditional medicine for naturalist medicine. You aren't. You're just buying a different big pharma product, researched and marketed by convicted frauds.[/list]
There's nothing wrong with buying natural substances from a pharmaceutical company running a supplement company on the side. Good on them. They need to refrain from fixing prices, however, and move more towards healthier natural solutions.
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Most pharmaceutical drugs occur in nature. For example, one of the most prominent and well known antibiotics, Penicillin, naturally occurs as a mold.
Penicillin is not natural to the human body.
That depends on how you define "natural to the human body". One could argue that since the human body does not make or store vitamin C, then it isn't "natural to the human body" either.
The body doesn't need to produce it, for a substance to be natural to it. Why would that be suggested at all? Is water not natural to a fish?
But Tom, this isn't your argument. Your argument is that natural medicine is better, not medicine natural to the body is better.
But that is my argument. When someone says that natural substances are better for the human body, what would make you think they are talking about substances natural to the stars, such as star plasma? Uranium is natural. But clearly, those people aren't talking about uranium.
In such conversations the discussions are about substances natural to the human body.
Western medicine is a concept that encompasses more than just drugs.
Medicine Definition
dictionary.search.yahoo.com
n. noun
- The science and art of diagnosing and treating disease or injury and maintaining health.
Two can play this game, Tom:
med·i·cine
noun \ˈme-də-sən, British usually ˈmed-sən\
: a substance that is used in treating disease or relieving pain and that is usually in the form of a pill or a liquid
Since I'm the one who first used the word medicine in the title of the thread, I'm the one setting the meaning. Maybe you should have asked what I meant. I believe I also mentioned some procedures and lifestyles when talking about natural medicines, such as liver flushing, implying that I'm talking about more than pills and liquids.
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Can you rigorously define what 'natural to the body' means? It seems to me like an unfixed goalpost of sorts. Anything you like can be arbitrarily defined as 'natural' while anything you dislike is 'unnatural'. What differentiates your definition from the No True Scotsman Fallacy?
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Corroboration from multiple unconnected sources constitutes evidence.
So then, Elvis is alive? Jesus and the Virgin Mary do appear to people all over the world? Aliens have landed on Earth?
You should rethink your standard of evidence, because it is not as strong as you think it is.
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You didn't answer my questions. You claim that these wells cure diseases. You said these claims about radioactive springs and vitamin C and all that are "absolutely true." Can you prove that? How do you know that these stories are true? How do you know that they aren't fabrications?
I've seen these people post on the health forums I frequent. There are stories littered all around the internet about these things, from multiple sources. News organizations have reported on this spring over the last 150 years, and Vitamin C over the last 60. Corroboration from multiple unconnected sources constitutes evidence.
So you believe random people on the interwebs who tell you that vitamin c cures cancer, but you won't believe the space man who tells you that the earth is round? Got it.
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Can you rigorously define what 'natural to the body' means? It seems to me like an unfixed goalpost of sorts. Anything you like can be arbitrarily defined as 'natural' while anything you dislike is 'unnatural'. What differentiates your definition from the No True Scotsman Fallacy?
I don't see what is difficult to understand. Humans and their ancestors have breathed air into their lungs for millions of years. Therefore air in the lungs is natural to humans.
Corroboration from multiple unconnected sources constitutes evidence.
So then, Elvis is alive? Jesus and the Virgin Mary do appear to people all over the world? Aliens have landed on Earth?
You should rethink your standard of evidence, because it is not as strong as you think it is.
Those stories often are not corroborated. Someone seeing the Virgin Mary appearing to them over a spring cannot be corroborated. However, someone dying of cancer, given months to live, and then being cured after drinking the water from a spring can be corroborated. The story is corroborated by the caretakers, family members, and reporters around them who witness the recovery.
Some of those corroborators are more unconnected than others, such as the reporters who interview the patient, their doctors, and write up their story about the spring.
When multiple events like these happen, it just strengthens the evidence that the spring has some sort of property to it that inhibits or kills disease.
So you believe random people on the interwebs who tell you that vitamin c cures cancer, but you won't believe the space man who tells you that the earth is round? Got it.
Multiple corroborating reports of the earth being round is evidence. If multiple sources are claiming that experience, with no contradicting evidence, it should be accepted as truth.
However, significant evidence of deception and fraud by the sources can call the claims into question.
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So you believe random people on the interwebs who tell you that vitamin c cures cancer, but you won't believe the space man who tells you that the earth is round? Got it.
Multiple corroborating reports of the earth being round is evidence. If multiple sources are claiming that experience, with no contradicting evidence, it should be accepted as truth.
However, significant evidence of deception and fraud by the sources can call the claims into question.
If only you were as skeptical of "natural medicine" as you are of NASA.
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Upper forum discussion belongs in the upper forums.
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Can you rigorously define what 'natural to the body' means? It seems to me like an unfixed goalpost of sorts. Anything you like can be arbitrarily defined as 'natural' while anything you dislike is 'unnatural'. What differentiates your definition from the No True Scotsman Fallacy?
I don't see what is difficult to understand. Humans and their ancestors have breathed air into their lungs for millions of years. Therefore air in the lungs is natural to humans.
Corroboration from multiple unconnected sources constitutes evidence.
So then, Elvis is alive? Jesus and the Virgin Mary do appear to people all over the world? Aliens have landed on Earth?
You should rethink your standard of evidence, because it is not as strong as you think it is.
Those stories often are not corroborated. Someone seeing the Virgin Mary appearing to them over a spring cannot be corroborated. However, someone dying of cancer, given months to live, and then being cured after drinking the water from a spring can be corroborated. The story is corroborated by the caretakers, family members, and reporters around them who witness the recovery.
Some of those corroborators are more unconnected than others, such as the reporters who interview the patient, their doctors, and write up their story about the spring.
When multiple events like these happen, it just strengthens the evidence that the spring has some sort of property to it that inhibits or kills disease.
So you believe random people on the interwebs who tell you that vitamin c cures cancer, but you won't believe the space man who tells you that the earth is round? Got it.
Multiple corroborating reports of the earth being round is evidence. If multiple sources are claiming that experience, with no contradicting evidence, it should be accepted as truth.
However, significant evidence of deception and fraud by the sources can call the claims into question.
What are the controls on the Vitamin C experiments? Sources please. Until I see those, the corroboration can be placed under the correlation != causation category.
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What are the controls on the Vitamin C experiments? Sources please. Until I see those, the corroboration can be placed under the correlation != causation category.
The controls at the clinic in the pancreatic cancer video I posted (http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/video/#!/news/health/Could-Vitamin-C-Help-Treat-Pancreatic-Cancer-/137546083) were the rest of the pancreatic cancer patients in the world who have a 1% survival rate through mainstream methods. The clinic need not recruit people to die. Allopathic medicine already does that. Pancreatic cancer is basically a death sentence, and is not something that spontaneously regresses on its own. Since a majority of the pancreatic cancer patients at the clinic who took Vitamin C IVs showed regression, it proved that Vitamin C cured the cancer.
The man who had Stage 4 liver cancer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL_g5-6DCVQ) is also controlled by the fact that basically all of the people at Stage 4 die. After being put on Vitamin C IVs he regressed, proving again that Vitamin C cured the cancer.
There are other studies for Vitamin C which do not involve sentencing people to die, which clinics are willing to conduct placebo-controlled. Case controlled studies show that Vitamin C aids in stroke recovery (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2684077/). Controlled studies have shown that Vitamin C reduces the frequency of colds (http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v60/n1/full/1602261a.html). A controlled study at Berkey study shows that Vitamin C reduces heart disease markers (http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2008/11/12_vitaminc.shtml). A study shows that Vitamin C reduces depression (http://www.nutritionj.com/content/12/1/31). Another study shows that Vitamin C prevents respiratory infections (http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/ejcn2014174a.html). There are also studies showing that Vitamin C reduces wrinkles and age spots (http://www.lef.org/magazine/2009/5/Revitalizing-Aging-Skin-with-Topical-Vitamin-C/Page-01). A placebo-controlled study shows that Vitamin C improves blood pressure (http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/95/5/1079.full).
Vitamin C also:
Reduces fatigue and increases one's desire for physical activity - http://www.fasebj.org/content/28/1_Supplement/828.3
Repairs the lungs of chronic smokers - http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/94/1/6.short
Reduces lead toxicity - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10204833?dopt=Abstract
Improves hypertension - http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/97/22/2222.short
Reduces general mortality - http://journals.lww.com/epidem/Abstract/1992/05000/Vitamin_C_Intake_and_Mortality_among_a_Sample_of.3.aspx
Prevents Coronary Heart Disease - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19674720 & http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10385496?dopt=Abstract
Puts the cancer of mice into remission - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18678913?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=1
Inhibits Diabetes - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10840986
Prevents exercise induced Asthma - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23794586
Reduces incidents of Cataracts - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17265171?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=4
Prevents Gout - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19273781?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=1
Improves the immune system - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/914459?dopt=Citation
And much more. There are plenty of things that Vitamin C helps with that haven't been studied, and which Naturopathic Physicians treat for. Your ignorance of this vitamin is by design. There is a conspiracy to keep you ignorant about vitamins and natural medicines. The human body is perfectly capable of repairing and curing itself. It simply needs a good supply of the ammunition it already uses.
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Before I read your links Tom. I'd like to make sure that all of these studies are done on people who have had normal levels of vitamin C and had a proper diet before taking these supplements.
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Before I read your links Tom. I'd like to make sure that all of these studies are done on people who have had normal levels of vitamin C and had a proper diet before taking these supplements.
The norm in controlled clinical studies are randomized trials. Selecting patients based on a particular diet would bias the study.
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Before I read your links Tom. I'd like to make sure that all of these studies are done on people who have had normal levels of vitamin C and had a proper diet before taking these supplements.
This. Like I said controls.
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Before I read your links Tom. I'd like to make sure that all of these studies are done on people who have had normal levels of vitamin C and had a proper diet before taking these supplements.
The norm in controlled clinical studies are randomized trials. Selecting patients based on a particular diet would bias the study.
I understand that, but demonstrating that someone who is nutrient deficient benefits from receiving adequate nutrition isn't really shocking. I'm assuming these specific studies show that individuals who are eating proper diets benefit from these supplements.
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Before I read your links Tom. I'd like to make sure that all of these studies are done on people who have had normal levels of vitamin C and had a proper diet before taking these supplements.
The norm in controlled clinical studies are randomized trials. Selecting patients based on a particular diet would bias the study.
This is not strictly true. You can have a randomized sample within a controlled group. I see advertisements all the time for trials involving "healthy, non-smokers".
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_fallacy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature
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I take 600mg of vitamin c a day in liquid form, because why the fuck not. The next time I get sick I'm going to try 5000mg a day in crystal form and see if it does anything.
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I take 600mg of vitamin c a day in liquid form, because why the fuck not. The next time I get sick I'm going to try 5000mg a day in crystal form and see if it does anything.
I snort a gram every 6 hours. Haven't gotten sick since I've started.
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Cocaine's a hell of a drug.
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Also Tom, there is a patented form of vitamin c. It has bioflavonoids in it.
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I understand that, but demonstrating that someone who is nutrient deficient benefits from receiving adequate nutrition isn't really shocking. I'm assuming these specific studies show that individuals who are eating proper diets benefit from these supplements.
The fallacy in that argument is that if these people all had the most perfect diets they wouldn't be sick in the first place. Few long time vegetarians have high cholesterol, for example. Many diseases can be helped to some degree by including more fruits and vegetables into your diet (although sometimes a disease has progressed so far that recovery is impossible through a diet adjustment alone)
This is why everyone is always telling you to eat your greens. The reason fruits and vegetables are good for you is that they are filled with vitamins and compounds which are anti-parasite in nature. Plants don't like to have bacteria, fungi and viruses living in them, so they create things which repel them. Herbal medicine is an extension of this, an attempt to find the most potent plants which repel bacteria/fungi/viruses.
Like humans and other animals, plants also have their own "good" bacteria on and in them, which help them out, and which they strive to protect and keep alive. Since animals are in symbiosis with the plants the vitamins and enzymes of a plant tend to help our good bacteria and repel the bad ones. This is why you will sometimes see cats eating grass. They find the most bitter ones they can. It keeps them healthy and disease free.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_fallacy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature
Why is it a fallacy to assume that things natural for the body are better than things unnatural to the body? Is there any artificial food that's better for us than natural food? Is there any drug with no listed long term side effects?
It is very rare for a natural medicine to have a side effect. The main side effects experienced come as a result of being too efficient in killing the disease. Sometimes when megadosing on Vitamin C IVs or other vitamins a particularly sick patient can become nauseous. But that is only because Vitamin C is so extraordinary at ending the life of diseases that it leaves too many dead bodies to filter out of the system. An answer is to ramp up dosage slowly, which most naturopathic physicians do. There are also other things, like Chollera, that one can take to bind to the debris and turn it inert for easier filtering.
Diarrhea with oral Vitamin C isn't really a side effect of the substance, since the body will go diarrhea if it detects an excess of most things natural to it, even strawberries. It's more of a gauging tool. The body knows how much it needs, and will absorb more or less as necessary before reaching bowel tolerance. This is not the case of pharmaceutical drugs alien to it. The body has a hard time filtering something it was not meant to filter, which is why so many people worsen after being on pharmaceuticals for a long period of time.
The difference in side effects is night and day.
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The biggest side effect of a lot of natural medicine is the disease keeps terrorizing your body.
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Is there any artificial food that's better for us than natural food?
Yes.
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The fallacy in that argument is that if these people all had the most perfect diets they wouldn't be sick in the first place.
What? This is hogwash. How can you possibly claim this as any sort of fact?
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I take multi-vitamins everyday because I have a terrible diet.
Tom, are you saying that if I take a handful of these multi-vitamins a day (isntead of just 3) that I'll have perfect health and could potentially live forever? Does Vitamin C counter aging as well? How many vitamins do I have to take per day to become immortal?
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I take multi-vitamins everyday because I have a terrible diet.
Tom, are you saying that if I take a handful of these multi-vitamins a day (isntead of just 3) that I'll have perfect health and could potentially live forever? Does Vitamin C counter aging as well? How many vitamins do I have to take per day to become immortal?
Vitamin C boosts telemerase production in adults and allows them to live indefinitely.
I take 600mg of vitamin c a day in liquid form, because why the fuck not. The next time I get sick I'm going to try 5000mg a day in crystal form and see if it does anything.
I snort a gram every 6 hours. Haven't gotten sick since I've started.
This is no longer true. Do not follow this advice.
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The fallacy in that argument is that if these people all had the most perfect diets they wouldn't be sick in the first place.
What? This is hogwash. How can you possibly claim this as any sort of fact?
It's absolutely a fact. Diet has a profound effect on the human condition. A good diet is the most important thing you can do for yourself. A good diet is nearly impossible to get these days, what with pesticides on vegetables and antibiotics in meat and eggs, but possible if one is willing to spend the money. Organic fruit and hormone and antibiotic-free food from places like Whole Foods are good. But even then, there are complex vitamins, flavanoids, and enzymes are so fragile that they start coming apart and degrading within minutes of being plucked from the stem, many of which are impossible to synthesize in pill or liquid form.
The absolute best diet is all but impossible for most people today, but it is to eat as naturally has humanly possible: how our ancestors did it. Meat must be fresh. Fruit and vegetables must be eaten from the vine, from the ground, and full of dirt and covered in important soil-based organisms which are also symbiotic to animals. People self-identifying themselves as "healthy" who have done this have reported feeling full of life, clarity, and an overall sense of being in prime health.
There are many reports of people on Curezone who have cured their Type II Diabetes, a condition considered incurable in medicine, by going on an entirely raw diet. There are reports of people who have resolved their Chrons Disease, another incurable condition, through soil-based organisms.
The benefits of megadosing Vitamin C is great and all, but no one should have gotten to that state to need that in the first place. Our immune system was evolved over billions of years to live in a healthy state in symbiosis with a primitive style of life in tune with nature. The closer we can get to that, the healthier we will be.
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The only objection I have to what you just wrote was that organic fruits and vegetables are almost certainly not pesticide/herbicide free. It's also not necessarily true that organic pesticides are any safer/better for you, or the environment.
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I had no idea that eating dirt was healthy. These are great tips, Tom. I'll make sure to eat a handful of dirt a day now.
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Our ancestors had such good diets from all those freshly picked veggies that they lived to be about 30 if they were lucky.
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Our ancestors had such good diets from all those freshly picked veggies that they lived to be about 30 if they were lucky.
30 years in their time was 200 years in our time.
I thought this was common knowledge.
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In the past humans lived to 800 years old, disease was unknown and sunlight came out of their eyes. All because of dirt covered kale and raw liver.
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I had no idea that eating dirt was healthy.
Where do you think plants get their nutrients? Checkmate!!
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Why do 3000 year old mummies show signs of cancer if diet prevents such disease?
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I take multi-vitamins everyday because I have a terrible diet.
I wouldn't take multivitamin tablets. Multivitamin tablets are full of binding agents and magnesium stearate, an artificial flow agent used to keep the substances from sticking to the equipment while in processing. I wouldn't put that in my body. Magneseum stearate has been shown to inhibit the body's killer t-cells. (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/06/23/whole-food-supplement-dangers.aspx)
In addition, the majority of the vitamins you find in the stores are not a good quality, and are often derived from synthetically generated substances. Synthetically derived iron and vitamin E have been shown to cause a number of issues if taken long term. The best vitamin supplements are what are called whole foods vitamins.
Read this article: Why Synthetic Supplements Are Terrible And Whole Food Supplements Are Way Better (http://blog.healthkismet.com/synthetic-vitamins-supplements-not-good-for)
Tom, are you saying that if I take a handful of these multi-vitamins a day (isntead of just 3) that I'll have perfect health and could potentially live forever? Does Vitamin C counter aging as well? How many vitamins do I have to take per day to become immortal?
You won't live forever, but you will live the full term of your natural life, until your body gets so old and worn with age and shortened telomers that it can't function and repair itself properly and properly use vitamins.
Linus Pauling, megadose vitamin C advocate, died in 1994 from prostate cancer. Mayo Clinic cancer researcher Charles G. Moertel, M.D., critic of Pauling and vitamin C, also died in 1994, and also from cancer (lymphoma). Dr. Moertel was 66 years old. Dr. Pauling was 93 years old. One needs to make up ones own mind as to whether this does or does not indicate benefit from vitamin C.
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Our ancestors had such good diets from all those freshly picked veggies that they lived to be about 30 if they were lucky.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LcHQ-Akm4g
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Why do 3000 year old mummies show signs of cancer if diet prevents such disease?
If those mummies were elderly then their bodies were so broken down with the natural process of aging that their bodies could not process the vitamins needed to protect them. Vitamins do not stop cell death and telomere shortening which preprograms our death. Also, it is readily admitted that finding signs of cancer in mummies and ancient remains is exceedingly rare.
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That number is an average life expectancy, which is skewed by the infant mortality rate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LcHQ-Akm4g
I watched about twenty seconds of this before turning it off. Do you have a better source for this information?
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I watched about twenty seconds of this before turning it off. Do you have a better source for this information?
It's a common myth and bad math. Just google it: http://paleoleap.com/why-cavemen-didnt-die-young/
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Tom is actually correct on this point. (http://www.anth.ucsb.edu/faculty/gurven/papers/GurvenKaplan2007pdr.pdf)Although life expectancy was much smaller for paleolithic peoples, this is largely due to infant mortality. Those who survived childhood had similar lifespans to modern humans.
Of course, the truth of this fact actually undermines Tom's larger argument: their 'natural' diets didn't extend their lifespans beyond that of a modern human. Eating whole foods didn't save them from disease or extend their lives beyond what one would expect from modern humans.
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Tom is actually correct on this point. (http://www.anth.ucsb.edu/faculty/gurven/papers/GurvenKaplan2007pdr.pdf)Although life expectancy was much smaller for paleolithic peoples, this is largely due to infant mortality. Those who survived childhood had similar lifespans to modern humans.
Of course, the truth of this fact actually undermines Tom's larger argument: their 'natural' diets didn't extend their lifespans beyond that of a modern human. Eating whole foods didn't save them from disease or extend their lives beyond what one would expect from modern humans.
Firstly, I never said that eating a good diet would allow you to live longer than your body's pre-programmed death. I claimed nothing of the sort. That's a fiction of your own imagination. A good diet simply allows you to live healthier with less disease.
Secondly, there are a lot of confounding factors when making direct comparisons between today and pre-society. War with other clans was probably a lot more common. Accidents, getting lost and injured, famine, cold winters, getting enslaved, and getting murdered for your pelts are things which would affect the life expectancy numbers. A lot of those people weren't living in peace, to the maximum possible they could. Averaging the average age of death for adults who survived childhood doesn't really tell us anything about the benefit of their diet.
Also, it was apparently common in very early times to send the elderly off to die.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senicide
Heruli
The Heruli were a Germanic tribe during the Migration Period (about 400 to 800 CE). Procopius states in his work The Wars, that the Heruli placed the sick and elderly on a tall stack of wood and stabbed them to death before setting the pyre alight.
India
Senicide is currently practiced in Tamil Nadu, a state of India. The traditional practice of senicide by the family members is called Thalaikoothal. In this custom, the elderly person is given an extensive oil-bath early in the morning and subsequently made to drink glasses of tender coconut water which results in renal failure, high fever, fits, and death within a day or two.
Inuit
A common belief is that the Inuit would leave their elderly on the ice to die
Japan
Ubasute (姥捨, abandoning an old woman), a custom allegedly performed in Japan in the distant past, whereby an infirm or elderly relative was carried to a mountain, or some other remote, desolate place, and left there to die. This custom has been vividly depicted in the The Ballad of Narayama (a 1956 novel by Shichirō Fukazawa, a 1958 film, and a 1983 film).
Serbia
Lapot [lapot] is the mythical practice of senicide in Serbia:[1][2][3] killing one's parents, or other elderly family members, once they become a financial burden on the family.
Sweden
Ättestupa (Swedish for: kin/clan precipice) is, according to tradition, a steep precipice where elderly people during Nordic prehistoric times are said to have thrown themselves, or were thrown, to their deaths. According to legend, this was done when the old people were unable to support themselves or assist in a household.
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For those of you who watch what you eat... Here's the final word on nutrition and health. It's a relief to know the truth after all those conflicting medical studies.
1. The Japanese eat very little fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than the British or Americans.
2. The Mexicans eat a lot of fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than the British or Americans.
3. The Japanese drink very little red wine and suffer fewer heart attacks than the British or Americans.
4. The Italians drink excessive amounts of red wine and suffer fewer heart attacks than the British or Americans.
5. The Germans drink a lot of beers and eat lots of sausages and fats and suffer fewer heart attacks than the British or Americans.
CONCLUSION: Eat and drink what you like. Speaking English is apparently what kills you.
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It might be all the copypasta in their diet.
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I had no idea that eating dirt was healthy. These are great tips, Tom. I'll make sure to eat a handful of dirt a day now.
Absolutely. Eating dirt every day is one of the best ways to stay healthy. It's a back to the basics approach to health where modern medicine is thrown out the window in favor of the solution nature has already provided us.
Dirt: The Superfood That Makes You Happier, Smarter & Healthier (http://www.mommypotamus.com/dirt-the-superfood-that-makes-you-happier-smarter-healthier/)
According to studies conducted at Bristol University and Sage Colleges concluded that soil-based organisms make us happier and smarter (http://www.healinglandscapes.org/blog/2011/01/its-in-the-dirt-bacteria-in-soil-makes-us-happier-smarter/), while other research shows they help regulate the immune system, reduce inflammation, break down our food for us, assist us with detoxification, and even bring out the best in use by influencing our genetic expression.
Plus, in this double-blind, placebo controlled study (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16117982) researchers found that IBS patients who took a soil-based probiotic experienced a significant reduction in symptoms after two weeks. A follow-up study found that the patients were still experiencing these benefits 1 year after discontinuing the probiotic, presumably because the beneficial bacteria stays in the gut and continues to function.
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Tom, they're talking about the organisms in the dirt, not the dirt itself. Literally eating handfuls of dirt would be terrible for you.
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Tom, they're talking about the organisms in the dirt, not the dirt itself. Literally eating handfuls of dirt would be terrible for you.
Eating dirt would only be bad for you if the land was contaminated. Children can play in dirt all day, with plenty of it ending up in their mouth, and end up just fine. The ones who ate dirt as children have better health in their lives than the ones who did not. It builds their immune system at a critical age and supplies them with healthy organisms.
But it's not just the organisms, the soil itself is also beneficial, and serves a purpose in the body. Soils and clays are absorbent materials which clean out the intestines of toxins, poisons, and undesirable substances.
http://wellnessmama.com/5915/benefits-of-healing-clays/
Though they have been largely forgotten in recent times, healing clays have been used by cultures throughout history for their nutrients and to help rid the body of toxins. Many animals will also turn to eating dirt and clay to help remove poisons from their systems or during times of illness or distress.
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The ones who ate dirt as children have better health in their lives than the ones who did not.
I would love to see a study on this one, Tom.
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The ones who ate dirt as children have better health in their lives than the ones who did not.
I would love to see a study on this one, Tom.
Why You Should Let Kids Eat Dirt (http://time.com/2828841/why-you-should-let-kids-eat-dirt/)
Kids who are exposed to more germs before age one are less likely to have allergies and asthma a new study shows
Infants who are exposed to unsavory things like rodent and pet dander, roach allergens and household bacteria during their first year are actually less likely to suffer from allergies and asthma, Johns Hopkins researchers say.
A new study published in the Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology shows that being exposed to allergens before a child turns one can benefit allergies. To reach these findings, the researchers studied 467 inner-city infants in Boston, New York and St. Louis. They tracked their health over three years, and visited their homes to calculate the levels of a variety of allergens. They also conducted allergy tests on the children and collected bacteria from dust gathered in their homes.
The kids who lived in homes with mouse and cat dander as well as cockroach droppings during their first year had lower rates of wheezing by age 3. The kids with a greater amount of bacteria in their homes were also less likely to wheeze and were less likely to have environmental allergies.
Kids who were completely free of allergies were also most likely to grow up in homes with the highest amount of allergens and bacteria in them. In contrast only 8% of kids with both allergies and asthma were exposed to the substances by the time they were 1.
It’s possible you’ve heard of the “hygiene hypothesis,” which is the speculation that the reason Americans have so many allergies is because we are, quite simply, too clean. Kids are kept in such sterile environments that they never build immunities to common allergens.
A significant amount of research has shown that kids who grow up living on farms with livestock, or with a pet are less likely to develop asthma or allergies. Prior research has also suggested that it’s not necessarily dust that provides a protective benefit, but the microbes that are in our guts that influence our immune system and ability to fight off infections.
NU study: Dirt's good for kids (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010-03-24/features/ct-x-n-health-dirt-20100324_1_nu-professor-northwestern-study-immune-system)
Analyzing data collected from thousands of children over two decades in the Philippines, researchers have concluded that a healthy dose of germs and pathogens during infancy reduced cardiovascular inflammation in adulthood — a precursor to heart attacks and strokes.
"It raises the intriguing possibility that higher levels of exposure to infectious microbes early in life may, in some way, protect you against cardiovascular disease," said Thom McDade, 41, an associate professor of anthropology at Northwestern University who co-wrote the study.
Conducted in 2005, the study measured the level of C-reactive protein (CRP) in some 1,700 Filipinos, whose health history had been carefully charted from birth to 21 years of age. A byproduct of arterial inflammation, CRP is a predictive biomarker of cardiovascular heart disease and stroke.
Set for April publication in Proceedings of the Royal Society, a London-based scientific journal, the study draws a conclusion sure to confuse "germophobic" parents everywhere.
"We found that kids who had higher levels of exposure to infectious microbes — kids who had more diarrhea and higher levels of exposure to animal feces as an infant — those individuals had lower levels of CRP as young adults," he said.
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Once again, they're talking about the organisms in the dirt, not the dirt itself. Furthermore, it clearly demonstrates that eating dirt makes you sick, which is the literal opposite of healthy. Thus, dirt is unhealthy. Whether it strengthens the immune system or not is irrelevant.
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The organisms are the primary benefit. But as I said, the dirt itself also serves a beneficial purpose. It keeps you healthy and protected.
Dirty Truth: Humans Eat Dirt to Shield the Stomach (http://www.livescience.com/14463-humans-eating-dirt-stomachs.html)
If you crave a snack of dirt and clay, you may be pregnant. New research shows that eating dirt, also called geophagy, is most common during the early stages of pregnancy and in young children, where the clay has a soothing effect on the stomach and can protect the individual from viruses and bacteria.
"This clay can either bind to harmful things, like microbes, pathogens and viruses, that we are eating or can make a barrier, like a mud mask for our gut," said study researcher Sera Young, at Cornell University in Ithaca, N.Y. "Contextualizing this, making it clear to people that its not such a weird behavior, will help women come forth and not feel so alone."
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Well now you're making contradicting statements. Does the dirt protect you from organisms or does it give them to you and make your immune system stronger? It can't be both.
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Well now you're making contradicting statements. Does the dirt protect you from organisms or does it give them to you and make your immune system stronger? It can't be both.
It is both.
The benefits are due to soil having a negative charge and bad bacteria having a positive charge. Soils and clays will attract and absorb the bad bacteria, viruses, fungi, without harming anything good or beneficial.
As per why this is, that is how nature has divided the kingdoms of life. We exist on the more negative and neutral side of the spectrum, with the Lactobacillus, supporter organisms, and soil, while fungus, viruses, and hostile bacteria and other parasites bad for life exists on the other side.
The video on this page (http://diatomaceous.net/tag/de-has-a-negative-charge-and-bad-bacteria-has-a-positive-charge/) sort of explains it.
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When did native Americans stop eating well?
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It is both.
No, it isn't. You can't say something cures you of disease while simultaneously killing you. It does one or the other, not both.
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It is both.
No, it isn't. You can't say something cures you of disease while simultaneously killing you. It does one or the other, not both.
Yes you can. Chemotherapy can cure cancer and kill you at the same time.
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Yes you can. Chemotherapy can cure cancer and kill you at the same time.
It does one or the other. No one has ever had their cancer cured and then died solely due to chemotherapy. Either the chemo cured them of cancer and they lived or the cancer killed them regardless.
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I had no idea that eating dirt was healthy. These are great tips, Tom. I'll make sure to eat a handful of dirt a day now.
Absolutely. Eating dirt every day is one of the best ways to stay healthy. It's a back to the basics approach to health where modern medicine is thrown out the window in favor of the solution nature has already provided us.
How much vitamin c is in dirt?
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I'm so confused. So is eating dirt good or bad? Because I've been eating a handful a day since Tom dropped this little gem of knowledge.
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No one has ever had their cancer cured and then died solely due to chemotherapy.
I presume you have evidence to support this outlandish claim.
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Yes you can. Chemotherapy can cure cancer and kill you at the same time.
It does one or the other. No one has ever had their cancer cured and then died solely due to chemotherapy. Either the chemo cured them of cancer and they lived or the cancer killed them regardless.
Soil-Based Organisms aren't bad for you. They don't kill you. They're good for you. They're on our side. The top ten inches of soil are teeming with an incredible number of organisms which are beneficial to plants and animals, and live in harmony with higher life forms to help each other out in exchange for survival. When you eat dirt you are supplying your system with powerful organisms which will help you out in many ways.
On the opposite spectrum of life we have bad organisms which feed off of dead and decaying matter, some of which actively try to kill the host as a food source. They are commonly referred to as parasites and disease.
Life tends to exist in favor with its environment. If dirt is negatively charged, it makes sense that plants, good bacteria, animals, would be negatively charged as well, or at least neutral. Bad organisms, which are positively charged, do not live in abundance in the dirt of a vegetable garden. They primarily spread through contact and infection. If you put a drop of Tuberculosis into your garden, it will not grow and spread to contaminate the soil with its copies. It would just die and get trapped in the dirt. This is because dirt is not its natural home. It would be positively charged Tuberculosis bacteria in negatively charged soil. But if you put the contents of a healthy bowel movement full of the good bacteria in the gut into the garden, that good bacteria will be in favor with the soil and spread all over the place.
Nature has framed life in this way for a many number of reasons, such as an easier identification of friend and foe, the ability to take advantages of shared nutrients, and the ability to create poisons which do not destroy things friendly to it.
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I presume you have evidence to support this outlandish claim.
I'm sure you spent at least five minutes googling for evidence to the contrary and after finding none, came here to make this statement. That's all the evidence you or I will ever need.
Tom, you just got done posting articles about how dirt makes you sick. Now you're telling me it is 100% good for me. I wish you'd make up your mind on what your opinion on dirt is.
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I presume you have evidence to support this outlandish claim.
I'm sure you spent at least five minutes googling for evidence to the contrary and after finding none, came here to make this statement. That's all the evidence you or I will ever need.
Tom, you just got done posting articles about how dirt makes you sick. Now you're telling me it is 100% good for me. I wish you'd make up your mind on what your opinion on dirt is.
The articles don't say that dirt makes you sick. I never claimed that. When I say that it builds up your immune system, the implications are that it does so by giving it powerful soil-based organisms which protect the body.
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The articles don't say that dirt makes you sick. I never claimed that. When I say that it builds up your immune system, the implications are that it does so by giving it powerful soil-based organisms which protect the body.
You might want to read those articles again.
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The articles don't say that dirt makes you sick. I never claimed that. When I say that it builds up your immune system, the implications are that it does so by giving it powerful soil-based organisms which protect the body.
You might want to read those articles again.
Well, some of those comments in the articles may entertain the idea that feces and dirt are full of bad organisms, under their interpretation of the mechanisms involved. The party line is that feces is bad for you, which is why the call it bad. The opposite is true. The dirt and dander helped the children because it was good for them.
Why do you think dogs eat feces they find laying on the ground? This behavior is seen in almost all dogs. If feces was so bad, you would think that trait would have been weeded out eons ago. Dogs eat feces because it's great for them. The gut is the bulk of the immune system, which has wide ranging effects. If you have a healthy gut, you have a healthy body. A sickly dog can replace his immune system with the feces of a healthier dog. A feat far beyond what modern medicine can even dream of. They even sniff it out for the best candidates.
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Why do you think dogs eat feces they find laying on the ground? This behavior is seen in almost all dogs. If feces was so bad, you would think that trait would have been weeded out eons ago. Dogs eat feces because it's great for them. The gut is the bulk of the immune system, which has wide ranging effects. If you have a healthy gut, you have a healthy body. A sickly dog can replace his immune system with the feces of a healthier dog. They even sniff it out for the best candidates.
Actually, this was shown to be done by dogs when they have a serious diet deficiency or eating disorder.
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Actually, this was shown to be done by dogs when they have a serious diet deficiency or eating disorder.
So evolution has decided that if a dog is having a diet deficiency that he should then go and eat feces full of bad terrible diseases?
No. Think for yourself. That's not what would happen.
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So evolution has decided that if a dog is having a diet deficiency that he should then go and eat feces full of bad terrible diseases?
Evolution hasn't guided dogs for a long time. Good ol' human artificial selection is what has turned dogs into poop eaters. Pretty much all dog varieties have horrific genetic disorders and that includes eating disorders.
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Dogs eat poop because their ancestors did it often during early domestication. Its not necessarily good for them, but it doesn't cause much damage. Regardless, there are other things that are much better for dogs to eat, and dogs don't need feces to survive. A dog could eat no feces and live to ripe old age. It makes no difference.
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Evolution hasn't guided dogs for a long time. Good ol' human artificial selection is what has turned dogs into poop eaters. Pretty much all dog varieties have horrific genetic disorders and that includes eating disorders.
Dogs eat poop because their ancestors did it often during early domestication. Its not necessarily good for them, but it doesn't cause much damage. Regardless, there are other things that are much better for dogs to eat, and dogs don't need feces to survive. A dog could eat no feces and live to ripe old age. It makes no difference.
That's the party line again: Feces is bad and full of disease so it must be some kind of disorder bred into them by humans. Also incorrect. This does not explain why lots of animals eat feces, not just dogs. Everything including gorillas, rabbits, and elephants.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coprophagia#In_animals
Coprophagia /kɒp.rə.ˈfeɪ.dʒi.ə/[1] or coprophagy /kəˈprɒfədʒiː/ is the consumption of feces. The word is derived from the Greek κόπρος copros, "feces" and φαγεῖν phagein, "to eat". Many animal species eat feces as a normal behavior; other species may not normally consume feces but do so under unusual conditions. Coprophagy refers to many kinds of feces eating including eating feces of other species (heterospecifics), of other individuals (allocoprophagy), or its own (autocoprophagy), those once deposited or taken directly from the anus.
Many animals are listed. If feces were full of terrible things which can cause illness, animals wouldn't be doing it left and right. Searching for a study isn't even required for this, simply thinking for ones own self.
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I never claimed it would cause disease or infection. I just said its not necessarily beneficial.
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Many animals are listed. If feces were full of terrible things which can cause illness, animals wouldn't be doing it left and right. Searching for a study isn't even required for this, simply thinking for ones own self.
"Animals do it in nature, therefore it is good" is a fallacious appeal to nature. You can do better than that, Tom. Where are your studies and sources?
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If feces were full of terrible things which can cause illness, animals wouldn't be doing it left and right.
If feces is so good, then why are punji sticks coated with it? Is it supposed to ward off infection?
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Many animals are listed. If feces were full of terrible things which can cause illness, animals wouldn't be doing it left and right. Searching for a study isn't even required for this, simply thinking for ones own self.
"Animals do it in nature, therefore it is good" is a fallacious appeal to nature. You can do better than that, Tom. Where are your studies and sources?
Studies are not required, just your brain. If feces was dangerous to eat then evolution would have weeded out the animals who made a habit of eating feces, and that trait would not exist. This is not an appeal to nature. It is an appeal to intelligence. The behavior of wild animals is directly shaped by evolution. Therefore if they are eating feces, it must not be so risky and dangerous.
The concept that you are healthier when you stay away from dirt and feces is little more than media hype.
If feces were full of terrible things which can cause illness, animals wouldn't be doing it left and right.
If feces is so good, then why are punji sticks coated with it? Is it supposed to ward off infection?
There is a big difference between eating things and putting them into your bloodstream. If you drink coffee it is fine. But if you injected a small amount of coffee into your bloodstream it would kill you. Some of the bacteria in the gut doesn't belong in other parts of your body. For example, e coli lives naturally in the lower bowels, but when it overgrows in the stomach it causes a lot of problems.
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Some people fuck trees but that doesn't mean it's a good thing to do.
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Some people fuck trees but that doesn't mean it's a good thing to do.
Weren't you just telling me that the conscious actions of man had nothing to do with evolution?
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It was dogs, Tom. We were talking about dogs.
And no I never said that.
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Well, when I brought up evolution you brought up domestication, implying that the conscious actions of man can run contrary to nature. It doesn't make your tree antecdote very strong.
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Many animals are listed. If feces were full of terrible things which can cause illness, animals wouldn't be doing it left and right. Searching for a study isn't even required for this, simply thinking for ones own self.
"Animals do it in nature, therefore it is good" is a fallacious appeal to nature. You can do better than that, Tom. Where are your studies and sources?
Studies are not required, just your brain. If feces was dangerous to eat then evolution would have weeded out the animals who made a habit of eating feces, and that trait would not exist. This is not an appeal to nature. It is an appeal to intelligence. The behavior of wild animals is directly shaped by evolution. Therefore if they are eating feces, it must not be so risky and dangerous.
How much vitamin c is there in feces?
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http://zidbits.com/2011/06/why-do-animals-eat-their-own-poop/
Poop. It's good for you.
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Studies are not required, just your brain. If feces was dangerous to eat then evolution would have weeded out the animals who made a habit of eating feces, and that trait would not exist. This is not an appeal to nature. It is an appeal to intelligence. The behavior of wild animals is directly shaped by evolution. Therefore if they are eating feces, it must not be so risky and dangerous.
But Tom, you were so happy to post studies before, where are they now? I'm very disappointed Tom. I expect a higher quality exchange when I grace this thread again.
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You didn't answer my questions. You claim that these wells cure diseases. You said these claims about radioactive springs and vitamin C and all that are "absolutely true." Can you prove that? How do you know that these stories are true? How do you know that they aren't fabrications?
I've seen these people post on the health forums I frequent. There are stories littered all around the internet about these things, from multiple sources. News organizations have reported on this spring over the last 150 years, and Vitamin C over the last 60. Corroboration from multiple unconnected sources constitutes evidence.
That doesn't answer my question. I asked how you know these stories to be true and not fabrications. How can you verify them? How have you confirmed that these reports are true? This seems important given how easy it would be for a multi-billion-dollar industry to generate a bunch of fake websites and testimonials to sell their products. And since those firms have a demonstrable track record as thieves, frauds, and liars, this point isn't irrelevant.
You appear to be saying that there stories must be true because there are a lot of them on the internet. There are lots of Yeti and UFO stories on the internet. Do you believe in those? What about all of the multiple sources and testimony on the internet that disputes your vitamin C claims? Don't those count as evidence?
Let's talk about Linus Pauling. Let's also talk about Hoffman-La Roche, the pharmaceutical company that used to dominate the vitamin C market until being convicted of leading a price-fixing cartel in the largest anti-trust case ever decided in the US. Guess what? They funded and reviewed Pauling work. Whoops.
So what? They may have thought that there was a chance that Vitamin C would become a standard treatment at the time and their domination of the Vitamin C market would become extremely valuable. That's good on them for supporting a natural substance.
So what? Are you serious? Maybe that would be a reasonable way to think about it if the very same company that funded the studies hadn't been convicted of fraud. Not just fraud. Price fixing. They have overtly displayed a willingness to be deceptive in order to make more money. Nothing that comes from the Linus Pauling Institute or any affiliated institution can be trusted. They are proven frauds.
And aren't you the one that says that big pharma never spends money to research "natural" cures because they can't make any money off of it? Isn't that what your whole narrative against traditional medicine? They "can't patent nature" or whatever, so they suppress natural cures?
The Mayo clinic used low oral doses in an attempt to refute Pauling's work, when the work clearly called for high dose Intravenous Vitamin C.
See this article: Vitamin C, Linus Pauling was right all along. A doctor's opinion (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/12154.php)
So if I found peer-reviewed medical literature refuting the efficacy of high dose, intravenous vitamin c, would you take it seriously? Why or why not?
There's nothing wrong with buying natural substances from a pharmaceutical company running a supplement company on the side. Good on them. They need to refrain from fixing prices, however, and move more towards healthier natural solutions.
I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with it. I'm talking about its implications. You're missing my point completely. Let me try and better explain:
To my knowledge, your indictment of traditional medicine begins and ends with "Big pharma can't patent the natural things that make you better, so they make unnatural things they can patent to make their money; to that end, they suppress knowledge of natural cures and maybe even go as far as trying to make you sick to keep you in the system." Correct me if I'm wrong.
The problem is that this doesn't explain the facts. Big pharma funds the research on natural cures. Big pharma has a near-monopoly on the sale of natural cures. It's so lucrative, and their monopoly is so thorough, that they were even able to run a price-fixing vitamin cartel. It didn't even break up. It just moved to China. You're a sucker and a shill.
Big pharma doesn't need to suppress anything. They're selling the things you say they don't sell and are trying to suppress. If vitamin C cured cancer, big pharma would be all over that. As I've demonstrated, big pharma already tried and succeeded to convince people that vitamin C cures cancer. You're one of those people. They are not trying to suppress vitamin C research. They're the ones doing the research.
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Well, when I brought up evolution you brought up domestication, implying that the conscious actions of man can run contrary to nature. It doesn't make your tree antecdote very strong.
Would you say that tree fuckers were created via evolution?
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Just make sure you sprinkle some vitamin c on your poop before you eat it.
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Many animals are listed. If feces were full of terrible things which can cause illness, animals wouldn't be doing it left and right. Searching for a study isn't even required for this, simply thinking for ones own self.
"Animals do it in nature, therefore it is good" is a fallacious appeal to nature. You can do better than that, Tom. Where are your studies and sources?
Studies are not required, just your brain. If feces was dangerous to eat then evolution would have weeded out the animals who made a habit of eating feces, and that trait would not exist. This is not an appeal to nature. It is an appeal to intelligence. The behavior of wild animals is directly shaped by evolution. Therefore if they are eating feces, it must not be so risky and dangerous.
How much vitamin c is there in feces?
markjo just mix yours in a glass of oj, and stop asking this idiotic question.
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Let's talk about Linus Pauling. Let's also talk about Hoffman-La Roche, the pharmaceutical company that used to dominate the vitamin C market until being convicted of leading a price-fixing cartel in the largest anti-trust case ever decided in the US. Guess what? They funded and reviewed Pauling work. Whoops.
So what?
If you were working for the Army and gave us a study proving that there was no corruption in Army finances, your work would absolutely be invalid.
Legitimate evidence comes from an outside source - external auditors, peer review by unconnected persons, etc. This should not be difficult to understand.
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As I stated, legitimate evidence comes from outside sources. Pauling's work is vindicated by other people who are not Pauling. There is not just one single man showing benefits from Vitamin C.
Was the NBC segment showing that people have been cured of cancer with Vitamin C IV therapy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL_g5-6DCVQ&ab_channel=EsunaHealth) funded by the Vitamin C industry? Are the many people claiming benefit from Vitamin C little more than shills?
What about all of those university and clinical research papers I linked? Were those institutions paid off by the Chinese Vitamin C industry to write those papers?