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Irish reunification
« on: May 30, 2021, 08:32:35 PM »
There have been renewed calls for a referendum on Irish unity following Britain's recent self-immolation. Until recently, broaching the subject at all would have been utterly futile, but the introduction of the Irish Sea border is starting to change that, as Euronews reports.

While the appetite for unification may not yet be hungry enough to push for constitutional change, there is a growing urgency at least in increasing cross-border cooperation, given the two countries' shared geography and history.

A working group has produced a report on the matter with some recommendations, according to the Irish Sun.

The final report by the Working Group on Unification Referendums on the Island of Ireland states: “It would be highly unwise for referendums to be called without a clear plan for the processes of decision-making that would follow.

“Such a plan would need to be agreed by the governments, working closely with the full range of actors in Northern Ireland, across the island of Ireland, and in the UK.”

So there is some work to be done, but headway is being made, which is nice to see. Given the obstacles, we probably won't see a referendum take place this year, but it seems within the realm of possibility to happen within the next couple of years.
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Re: Irish reunification
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2021, 10:04:43 PM »
No one gives a fuck.

Thank you for illustrating why there is increasing support for a united Ireland.
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Re: Irish reunification
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2021, 10:22:22 PM »
Thank you for illustrating why there is increasing support for a united Ireland.
What has it got to do with you?
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Re: Irish reunification
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2021, 10:48:42 PM »
No one gives a fuck.

Thank you for illustrating why there is increasing support for a united Ireland.


Concurred.   

Being a Northern Ireland resident, I'd vote for unification with anywhere that would have us, but only if its somewhere that Thork isn't; eg Ireland, Iceland, USA, North Korea. 

And if we do get a referendum, for f*ck's sake ask us a proper question that has 2 answers.  Unlike Brexit, where the choice was;

   1.  Stay in the EU.
   2.  Do something else, but we don't know what those choices are yet. 

(incidentally, I voted 2.).

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Re: Irish reunification
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2021, 08:03:50 AM »
(incidentally, I voted 2.).
Do you think it might be time for a "lessons learned" session before a hypothetical reunification vote, or do you intend to just keep on keeping on?
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
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Re: Irish reunification
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2021, 08:30:33 AM »
What has it got to do with you?

A united Ireland could have great benefits for the EU. For one thing, it would open up the possibility of Ireland leaving the CTA in the future and joining Schengen instead.

Besides, not that it's any of your business, I found out last year that I qualify for Irish citizenship through having a parent born in Northern Ireland. It seems I may qualify for UK citizenship that way too, but the UK has shown great determination in making its citizenship as useless as possible over the past few years. I've just been waiting out the pandemic so I can arrange the documentation I need for an Irish passport.

So, as an Irish citizen and an EU resident, I have plenty of reason to want the British kicked out from where they don't belong.
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Re: Irish reunification
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2021, 08:47:35 AM »
(incidentally, I voted 2.).
Do you think it might be time for a "lessons learned" session before a hypothetical reunification vote, or do you intend to just keep on keeping on?


In retrospect I don't always make smart decisions, but I will defend to the death my right to keep on making stupid choices. 

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Re: Irish reunification
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2021, 10:06:34 AM »
I support the Irish and Northern Irish right to self-determination on this point, as I do the Scottish people on the point of their independence. The only way to know if either is good or not is to do it, I just hope that in both cases they do it better than our circus of a government has.

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Re: Irish reunification
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2021, 12:11:15 PM »
In retrospect I don't always make smart decisions, but I will defend to the death my right to keep on making stupid choices.
And I would defend your right to carry on making stupid choices. Not with my life. But maybe with a strongly worded Facebook post or a cynical Tweet instead.

I support the Irish and Northern Irish right to self-determination on this point, as I do the Scottish people on the point of their independence.
No. The Scottish is different. They had a vote only 6 years ago. Supposedly once in a generation. You can't keep having referendums until you get the result you want. 25 years is a generation. In Parliament, set the date of the next referendum to be 18 September 2039 and we can forget about it until then.

A united Ireland could have great benefits for the EU. For one thing, it would open up the possibility of Ireland leaving the CTA in the future and joining Schengen instead.
How does poor border control benefit the EU?

Besides, not that it's any of your business, I found out last year that I qualify for Irish citizenship through having a parent born in Northern Ireland.
Ahhh, tracing your roots. A popular past time amongst the culturally bereft descendants of colonialists.

It seems I may qualify for UK citizenship that way too, but the UK has shown great determination in making its citizenship as useless as possible over the past few years.

It is every bit as good as an Australian passport and significantly more utilitarian than a US passport.
https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php

Pray tell me, what is it you hope to do with an Irish passport, that could not be achieved with a British passport?

I have plenty of reason to want the British kicked out from where they don't belong.
The Northern Irish are British, you dumb ass.  ::)
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Re: Irish reunification
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2021, 01:34:56 PM »
No. The Scottish is different. They had a vote only 6 years ago. Supposedly once in a generation. You can't keep having referendums until you get the result you want. 25 years is a generation. In Parliament, set the date of the next referendum to be 18 September 2039 and we can forget about it until then.

At the risk of veering further off topic, that was before your people dragged them through the most pointless shake-up in Britain since 1066 and put a border between the Scots in Scotland and their Ulster Scots brethren. You have changed the situation, and they are entitled to voice their opinion on the new status quo.

A united Ireland could have great benefits for the EU. For one thing, it would open up the possibility of Ireland leaving the CTA in the future and joining Schengen instead.
How does poor border control benefit the EU?

Nice loaded question.

Besides, not that it's any of your business, I found out last year that I qualify for Irish citizenship through having a parent born in Northern Ireland.
Ahhh, tracing your roots. A popular past time amongst the culturally bereft descendants of colonialists.

I don't quite know how you got that from what I said, but whatever floats your boat.

It seems I may qualify for UK citizenship that way too, but the UK has shown great determination in making its citizenship as useless as possible over the past few years.

It is every bit as good as an Australian passport and significantly more utilitarian than a US passport.
https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php

And yet, significantly less utilitarian than it was 2 years ago.

Pray tell me, what is it you hope to do with an Irish passport, that could not be achieved with a British passport?

You... do know where I live, right? You know I am a resident of the EU, but not an EU citizen? Do you understand that that means I need to maintain a valid visa in order to not get deported and have limited access to public services? Do I really need to explain how EU citizenship would benefit me?

I have plenty of reason to want the British kicked out from where they don't belong.
The Northern Irish are British, you dumb ass.  ::)

Some of them identify that way, yes, just the same as some residents of the UK identify as Indian and hold Indian nationality. Are you saying you would support Indian rule in Britain?
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Re: Irish reunification
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2021, 02:12:27 PM »
At the risk of veering further off topic, that was before your people dragged them through the most pointless shake-up in Britain since 1066 and put a border between the Scots in Scotland and their Ulster Scots brethren. You have changed the situation, and they are entitled to voice their opinion on the new status quo.
There is no them and us. It is just us. we all had a vote on Brexit. We don't just shatter the nation to bits every time parts of it vote another way. Democracy means we agree to the majority vote and we live with it. Not pick up our ball and go home. Should the Shetland islands be independent because they voted Liberal Democrats last time around? Play that game and you end up a land of thousand villages ... each one more juicy than the last for any marauding Vikings. We have strength in unity. By themselves, Scotland would be picked apart by large trading blocks.

You... do know where I live, right? You know I am a resident of the EU, but not an EU citizen? Do you understand that that means I need to maintain a valid visa in order to not get deported and have limited access to public services? Do I really need to explain how EU citizenship would benefit me?
Why should we give a fuck what benefits you? You don't get a vote. And you aren't supposed to stay in Europe. You have a VISA because you are supposed to go home. That's the deal. You come on a temporary basis for education or work and once knowledge and skills have been exchanged ... you fuck off home. Why should you get access to public services? You've only been here 5 minutes. You haven't paid for them. Europe doesn't owe you a living. What a vile sense of entitlement. This is precisely why the UK voted out. We aren't there to provide welfare for any creature that washes up on our shores.

Some of them identify that way, yes, just the same as some residents of the UK identify as Indian and hold Indian nationality. Are you saying you would support Indian rule in Britain?
No no no. You don't get to self-identify your way out of your situation. We have British residents who may have an Indian heritage. But they are here because the state has identified them as British. This stupid notion you get to identify yourself is laughable. From the same nutcases that bring you preferred pronouns. If I identify as a dog, does that mean I can go about fucking other dogs. Would it be legal to fuck your dog in the park right in front of you? I mean, I'm just a dog ... that's how I identify. What if I identify as a little girl? Am I not entitled to a state education with all the other little girls, including gym class? What if I identify as your brother? Will I get a share of your inheritance when our parents die? The Northern Irish are British ... and that's how they are legally identified ... end of story.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2021, 02:16:40 PM by Toddler Thork »
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Re: Irish reunification
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2021, 02:22:14 PM »
In retrospect I don't always make smart decisions, but I will defend to the death my right to keep on making stupid choices.
Ah, shit, I absolutely did not mean to suggest that you shouldn't make your choices. Just that perhaps past mistakes might help with future decisions.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
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Re: Irish reunification
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2021, 02:29:19 PM »
We have strength in unity.

Well, we did.

By themselves, Scotland would be picked apart by large trading blocks.

This is probably about as much Scotland discussion as is warranted in a thread about Ireland.

Why should we give a fuck what benefits you?

Well, for starters, you asked me...

And you aren't supposed to stay in Europe. You have a VISA because you are supposed to go home. That's the deal. You come on a temporary basis for education or work and once knowledge and skills have been exchanged ... you fuck off home.

If that's the deal, why is there a naturalisation process?

Why should you get access to public services? You've only been here 5 minutes. You haven't paid for them. Europe doesn't owe you a living. What a vile sense of entitlement.

I never said anything about whether I should get access to public services. I accepted the fact that I wouldn't be treated as a citizen when I moved here. But the answer to your question is, in part, that an Irish passport would allow me to access public services in the EU sooner than waiting until I can naturalise. Don't complain about the question you asked just because you don't like the answer.

This is precisely why the UK voted out. We aren't there to provide welfare for any creature that washes up on our shores.

I am quite happy to accept none of your tax money, don't you worry about that.

The Northern Irish are British ... and that's how they are legally identified ... end of story.

They are also legally identified, by the Irish government, as Irish. Perhaps there is a sequel?
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Re: Irish reunification
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2021, 02:45:58 PM »
They are also legally identified, by the Irish government, as Irish. Perhaps there is a sequel?
Oh, well then we legally identify the USA as a colony. We never gave them permission to leave. Please send taxes, America.  ::)
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Re: Irish reunification
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2021, 02:54:12 PM »
Oh, well then we legally identify the USA as a colony. We never gave them permission to leave. Please send taxes, America.  ::)

As you are no doubt aware, recognising a person as a national of your country is not at all the same thing as claiming jurisdiction over them, although some countries blur the lines somewhat. I'm assuming this means you have no sound arguments to make.
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Re: Irish reunification
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2021, 03:48:33 PM »
The USA is no longer a colony because might is right. Hong Kong no longer belongs to the UK because might is right. Northern Ireland does still belong to the UK as does the Falklands. If Argentina had been stronger ... that would not be the case. We'll wait until the Republic of Ireland is capable of wrestling territories from us before we hand over Northern Ireland, thanks very much.

In the mean time, your support of sedition is not welcome. That is how we had The Troubles in the first place. Mind your own business.
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Re: Irish reunification
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2021, 03:51:35 PM »
It’s pretty peak Thork to tell people they should accept the results of a democratic process since that is the opposite of what he wanted during Brexit.

“The legally elected government of Britain made a decision I didn’t like and they sToLe My SoVeReIgNtY!!  Baaaaaaw!”
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Re: Irish reunification
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2021, 03:57:33 PM »
We'll wait until the Republic of Ireland is capable of wrestling territories from us before we hand over Northern Ireland, thanks very much.

Do you know what you're saying? Because I don't think you know what you're saying.

In the mean time, your support of sedition is not welcome.

I wasn't aware referenda qualified as sedition.
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Re: Irish reunification
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2021, 04:14:02 PM »
I wasn't aware referenda qualified as sedition.
If you have a referendum without permission ... that's a crime.
https://english.elpais.com/elpais/2019/10/04/inenglish/1570178504_315132.html

Westminster hasn't given permission. You are advocating sedition.
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