Offline Blanko

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Re: Interstellar
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2015, 02:38:38 PM »
I'm trying to get better at critique and Interstellar is one of the things I decided to write one for because it's still in fairly recent memory. So whatever!

The main problem I have with Interstellar is that everything that happens in it feels really contrived. It feels like a film written in sequences which simply had to be in it, with the connecting pieces added later. This often means that the film tries to feel smart in expense of the characters being stupid.

Now, I don't mean that characters lacking in valuable insight or intelligence is necessarily a character flaw, but in this film in particular it seems that characters act simply according to what the audience should see next. For instance, Cooper had to be shot into space on a mission without formal training or even basic briefing, despite the inevitability of the mission taking over a decade at minimum to complete. It's not because the people at NASA didn't deem any of that to be necessary for such an important mission, it's just so the audience would be treated with the hammy emotionally loaded leaving scene and establish the bitter relationship Murphy has towards her father for most of the rest of the story. It also leaves open the opportunity to have all the technobabble that makes this film ”scientific” be explained in plain exposition later when the mission is actually briefed. In space!

Then the crew gets to Miller's planet, and something fascinating happens. There's been a seemingly promising consistent transmission coming from it, so the crew decides to check it out. And then it's explained that time is extremely dilated on the planet, so it's going to take years just to go there briefly. So, when the whole thing expectedly ends in disaster, Cooper asks why the wreckage of Miller's ship was still on the surface despite the huge waves, and Amelia doesn't hesitate to answer the obvious: Miller would have only just landed there herself in her frame of reference due to the time dilation. Yet this simple notion is completely ignored by having the crew as well as everyone in NASA think the transmission is indicative of any eligibility of the planet, despite every character knowing fully well how time dilation works, except when it actually matters. They had all the knowledge and tools at their disposal to find out why the transmitter isn't worth retrieving, and they could have easily found out about the planet's enormous tidal waves from orbit if they had just taken a moment to study it. But this doesn't happen, because we need to show the audience a cool setpiece and age the characters on Earth to where we want them to be in the plot. Again, it's not so much that the characters are acting stupidly that is the issue, but that it's contrived for the sake of plot convenience and neat-looking visual backdrops.

The technology in this film feels really contrived as well. You can see there was a deliberate effort to make the film grounded in reality when the crew leaves the Earth. It's realistic and easy for the audience to accept that space technology wouldn't be hugely improved from the present day, so it's immediately established that it hasn't gotten Star Trek levels of convenient – at least not at this part of the story. They take off in a multi-stage rocket and take two years to get to Saturn and it establishes a notion that space travel is still really difficult and interstellar travel by normal means is still virtually impossible.

But then they go through the wormhole and everything changes. Nolan seems to have decided that different rules apply to different places, because as soon as we leave the frame of reference of our solar system, the film takes a dramatic turn from science fiction to space fantasy. Travelling between planets seems immediately much more effortless, and taking off from a planet on a shuttle is something they can actually do all along. So much for grounded in reality. Maybe they had a legitimate reason for taking so long to get through the wormhole and use such an antiquated process for it, but to me it just feels really contrived that they create an expectation for one thing and then proceed to immediately drop it when plot convenience deems it necessary.

Eventually the tesseract happens, which is a nice visually stimulating image to serve as a backdrop to Cooper's exhausting delivery of exposition that conveniently explains everything that is happening in the scene. And then Murphy makes the bizarre assumption for no reason at all that her father is the ghost in the bookshelf and happens to be completely right about it. Everything wraps up perfectly, and that's just great. But also really, really contrived.

I respect Nolan as a director, because he goes to enormous lengths to achieve his vision. The amount of practical effects used in this film where CGI would have sufficed is insane, and it's great that he's willing to go through the effort. It's just a shame that his vision seems to only be limited to visual imagery, and how we get to see his visual setpieces isn't as important to him as simply having us see them. Perhaps he would benefit from having a screenwriter to closely work with and iron out all the weird contrivances and trim the heavy-handed exposition that stop his pretty good films from being great films.

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Offline Particle Person

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Re: Interstellar
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2015, 02:50:52 PM »
Then the crew gets to Miller's planet, and something fascinating happens. There's been a seemingly promising consistent transmission coming from it, so the crew decides to check it out. And then it's explained that time is extremely dilated on the planet, so it's going to take years just to go there briefly. So, when the whole thing expectedly ends in disaster, Cooper asks why the wreckage of Miller's ship was still on the surface despite the huge waves, and Amelia doesn't hesitate to answer the obvious: Miller would have only just landed there herself in her frame of reference due to the time dilation. Yet this simple notion is completely ignored by having the crew as well as everyone in NASA think the transmission is indicative of any eligibility of the planet, despite every character knowing fully well how time dilation works, except when it actually matters. They had all the knowledge and tools at their disposal to find out why the transmitter isn't worth retrieving, and they could have easily found out about the planet's enormous tidal waves from orbit if they had just taken a moment to study it. But this doesn't happen, because we need to show the audience a cool setpiece and age the characters on Earth to where we want them to be in the plot. Again, it's not so much that the characters are acting stupidly that is the issue, but that it's contrived for the sake of plot convenience and neat-looking visual backdrops.

I believe they say something about Miller's planet being much closer to Gargantua than they (those back home at NASA) originally thought it was when they first arrive in the system.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 03:09:12 PM by Particle Person »
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Re: Interstellar
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2015, 01:47:15 AM »
I watched this movie.  It had its moments, but overall, I agree with Blanko and Vindictus.  It's like Nolan started out this movie wanting to be very realistic and details-oriented, but later just dropped that in favor of corny fantastical ideals, like black holes being magical time-travel stations and the power of love conquering all.  And another thing, what was up with that ending with the huge self-sustaining space stations that humanity now lives on?  Wasn't the whole point of the expedition to find hospitable planets?  Since when were the space stations an option?

Rama Set

Re: Interstellar
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2015, 02:06:58 AM »
I watched this movie.  It had its moments, but overall, I agree with Blanko and Vindictus.  It's like Nolan started out this movie wanting to be very realistic and details-oriented, but later just dropped that in favor of corny fantastical ideals, like black holes being magical time-travel stations and the power of love conquering all.  And another thing, what was up with that ending with the huge self-sustaining space stations that humanity now lives on?  Wasn't the whole point of the expedition to find hospitable planets?  Since when were the space stations an option?

Since Jessica Chastain figured out the secret of gravity because of Matthew McConaughey.

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Offline Particle Person

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Re: Interstellar
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2015, 02:21:16 AM »
I watched this movie.  It had its moments, but overall, I agree with Blanko and Vindictus.  It's like Nolan started out this movie wanting to be very realistic and details-oriented, but later just dropped that in favor of corny fantastical ideals, like black holes being magical time-travel stations and the power of love conquering all.  And another thing, what was up with that ending with the huge self-sustaining space stations that humanity now lives on?  Wasn't the whole point of the expedition to find hospitable planets?  Since when were the space stations an option?

The black hole was not a time travel station. Cooper used the Tesseract, which was built within the black hole, to travel time. If you had been paying attention you would know that the power of love didn't conquer anything. The Tesseract was built specifically so that Cooper could communicate two things to himself and Murph: the coordinates of the NASA base, and the "quantum data" gathered in the singularity of the black hole, which is what was missing from Brand's equation. You know, the frequently mentioned equation that needs to be solved in order to launch the enormous stations? Were you only awake for the first and last 30 minutes of this movie? Anyway, Cooper communicates this information in binary to Murph, and she solves the problem. 50 years later, when Cooper is rescued, the stations have been launched.
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Re: Interstellar
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2015, 02:47:37 AM »
The black hole was not a time travel station. Cooper used the Tesseract, which was built within the black hole, to travel time.

A magical time travel station somehow being built inside a black hole isn't much less stupid than the black hole itself being the magical time travel station.  The point is that if you go into a black hole, you die.  You don't get to go on an amazing journey of psychedelic whimsy and wonder.  You just die.

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If you had been paying attention you would know that the power of love didn't conquer anything. The Tesseract was built specifically so that Cooper could communicate two things to himself and Murph

I'm pretty sure Cooper says something about being able to cross time and space to communicate with Murphy through the power of love, the only truly transcendent force in the universe.  Yes, the Tesseract was involved, but it was love that brought him to Murphy in particular.  Speaking of Murphy, the movie's treatment of Murphy's Law as some kind of serious scientific principle about the inevitability of any and all possible events eventually occurring was amusing.  Murphy's Law is actually just a joke, a tongue-in-cheek adage that specifically refers to things going wrong.  In real life, naming a kid after it would be a cruel way to constantly remind them that they were a mistake.

Quote
You know, the frequently mentioned equation that needs to be solved in order to launch the enormous stations? Were you only awake for the first and last 30 minutes of this movie? Anyway, Cooper communicates this information in binary to Murph, and she solves the problem. 50 years later, when Cooper is rescued, the stations have been launched.Anyway, Cooper communicates this information in binary to Murph, and she solves the problem. 50 years later, when Cooper is rescued, the stations have been launched.

No, it wasn't to launch the space stations, it was to transport large amounts of people at once; people who would be transported to the hospitable planets that the expedition found.  That was the whole point of the expedition, to find hospitable planets.  If living on giant space stations had always been an option, then there would have been no reason to bother with the expedition at all.  Everyone would have just waited around for Michael Caine to finish the equation - admittedly, he thought that it could never be solved, and that they'd ultimately need to go with Plan B, but Cooper and the others didn't know that, and Cooper made it clear that he wasn't impressed with Plan B as the future of the human race.  He wasn't spending all that time traveling around the galaxy for the sake of some anonymous embryos that might be sent there one day, he was doing it to find a home for the people who were already alive, including his family.  For the day to be saved at the last minute by those space stations renders the bulk of the story - the search for habitable planets - completely pointless.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2015, 03:50:43 PM by Saddam Hussein »

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Interstellar
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2015, 03:25:00 AM »
Well, if you want to get super technical, the leading theory on what happens after the event horizon of a black hole is that you don't die, but rather become stuck in time. At such extreme gravity, time would appear to stand still, at least to an outside observer were they able to actually observe the inside of a black hole's event horizon.

Rama Set

Re: Interstellar
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2015, 03:34:40 AM »
The person appears to get smeared over the surface of the event horizon I think. The person falling in though is supposed to go through hell before getting spaghettified.

Ghost of V

Re: Interstellar
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2015, 03:05:01 AM »
Well, if you want to get super technical, the leading theory on what happens after the event horizon of a black hole is that you don't die, but rather become stuck in time. At such extreme gravity, time would appear to stand still, at least to an outside observer were they able to actually observe the inside of a black hole's event horizon.

You still die. Even if you're in some sort of protective suit you're still trapped and you would eventually die.  In truth, the gravitational pull of a black hole would probably tear you to pieces, so suit or no suit you still die.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Interstellar
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2015, 04:15:34 AM »
You still die. Even if you're in some sort of protective suit you're still trapped and you would eventually die.  In truth, the gravitational pull of a black hole would probably tear you to pieces, so suit or no suit you still die.

No.

Ghost of V

Re: Interstellar
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2015, 04:19:51 AM »
You still die. Even if you're in some sort of protective suit you're still trapped and you would eventually die.  In truth, the gravitational pull of a black hole would probably tear you to pieces, so suit or no suit you still die.

No.

Please tell us about how you escaped a black hole since you apparently have first hand knowledge of their workings.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Interstellar
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2015, 04:32:14 AM »
Please tell us about how you escaped a black hole since you apparently have first hand knowledge of their workings.

If you were even remotely aware how any form of academic theory works then you'd realize why this is one of the dumbest demands you could possibly make in this argument.

Ghost of V

Re: Interstellar
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2015, 04:35:44 AM »
That's what I thought

Re: Interstellar
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2015, 07:59:38 AM »
You still die. Even if you're in some sort of protective suit you're still trapped and you would eventually die.  In truth, the gravitational pull of a black hole would probably tear you to pieces, so suit or no suit you still die.

No.

I don't see how that is wrong. It would be similar to standing on the sun, if you could do it without being vaporized. The gravity would crush you.

Ghost of V

Re: Interstellar
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2015, 09:05:05 AM »
It's called spaghettification. Really.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Interstellar
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2015, 05:20:19 PM »
I don't see how that is wrong. It would be similar to standing on the sun, if you could do it without being vaporized. The gravity would crush you.

The Sun's gravity is not strong enough to break pretty much every law of physics. Beyond the event horizon of a black hole time stands still. It would take a time limit of infinity to actually kill you, meaning it never does.

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Offline Shane

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Re: Interstellar
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2015, 05:45:23 PM »
But wouldnt you already be dead before you got there?
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Ghost of V

Re: Interstellar
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2015, 06:30:57 PM »
I don't see how that is wrong. It would be similar to standing on the sun, if you could do it without being vaporized. The gravity would crush you.

The Sun's gravity is not strong enough to break pretty much every law of physics. Beyond the event horizon of a black hole time stands still. It would take a time limit of infinity to actually kill you, meaning it never does.

No.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Interstellar
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2015, 07:13:17 PM »
But wouldnt you already be dead before you got there?

That depends on how you arrived there. You could probably use a decaying orbit to get stuck in the event horizon without having your vehicle get torn apart. Black holes aren't anything special outside the event horizon, they behave in the same manner as any other gravitational body.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 07:15:41 PM by Irushwithscvs »

Rama Set

Re: Interstellar
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2015, 07:26:58 PM »
I don't see how that is wrong. It would be similar to standing on the sun, if you could do it without being vaporized. The gravity would crush you.

The Sun's gravity is not strong enough to break pretty much every law of physics. Beyond the event horizon of a black hole time stands still. It would take a time limit of infinity to actually kill you, meaning it never does.

I think for an observer outside the Event Horizon looking in, time stands still.  For the observer looking out from beyond the event horizon would see the entire history of the universe play out, but inside they would continue their inexorable journey towards spaghettification.

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