[geckothegeek]

If you really want to get down to reality, there is really no debate about the shape of the earth being the sphere that it is and has been known for centuries." The Scope of Conspiracy Seems Implausible" because it would have to include just about every person on the earth.

[juner]

If you really want to get down to reality, there is really no debate about the shape of the earth being the sphere that it is and has been known for centuries." The Scope of Conspiracy Seems Implausible" because it would have to include just about every person on the earth.

False.

[geckothegeek]

If you really want to get down to reality, there is really no debate about the shape of the earth being the sphere that it is and has been known for centuries." The Scope of Conspiracy Seems Implausible" because it would have to include just about every person on the earth.

False.

Or possibly a large percentage of those who work in areas where a globular earth is concerned. Oceanic and aeronautical navigation, astronomy, and many others that depend on maps for commerce for just one group . And discounting those who say they believe in a flat earth would result in a large percentage of others would have to include a majority at least who might be considered a part of a Round Earth Conspiracy.

[geckothegeek]

Your very own Sandokhan is responsible for this tidbit of information.

There's your problem. Nobody takes sandokhan seriously, but you chose to.

I don't particularly take him seriously, but enough of your own community seem to:

Answer me this without a dissertation and 38 links back to your own forum. Use plain English and don't go off on a tangent...

You must be new around here... Sandokhan/levee offers the very best proofs in the business and you will get all of them, every time, regardless how loosely related they may be.

The fractured nature of your entire community is starting to lead me to believe this entire thing is a sham. I debate a member and get told 'he's the best.' I refer to the same member in another thread and get told 'he's crazy.'

Aside from the vast, unsubstantiated assumptions made by the entire flat-earth theory, there is no unity behind any of the 'logic' or 'science.' As a round-earther here, I'm not debating a flat-earth idea, I'm debating a collective of varied ideas, each seems to rely on another one to say 'that isn't valid' whenever I get close to unraveling it.

I have seen many comments on the Internet that the Flat Earth Society Forum websites are:
 -quote-"One big hoax or one big joke."-unquote

[Pete Svarrior]

As a round-earther here, I'm not debating a flat-earth idea, I'm debating a collective of varied ideas, each seems to rely on another one to say 'that isn't valid' whenever I get close to unraveling it.

There's nothing to "unravel". There are plenty of good books on the subject (many of which can be found in our Library), not to mention the wiki. It's not our fault that you fail to differentiate obvious trolls from serious posters. If anything, it reflects poorly on you.

[Disgraced_Shield]

As a round-earther here, I'm not debating a flat-earth idea, I'm debating a collective of varied ideas, each seems to rely on another one to say 'that isn't valid' whenever I get close to unraveling it.

There's nothing to "unravel". There are plenty of good books on the subject (many of which can be found in our Library), not to mention the wiki. It's not our fault that you fail to differentiate obvious trolls from serious posters. If anything, it reflects poorly on you.

Fascinating how 'your' trolls are shrugged off and kept around for shits and giggles apparently. Either that, or they're kept around as patsies for when someone gets close to shoveling through the drek that some of you consider science.

Dissenting opinion, however, religiously gets handed the often unfair moniker of 'troll' and gets run roughshod over.

Your stone-throwing is amazing.

You talk about reflection, yet have no idea what your backpedaling, personal attacks, and self-admitted trolling does for your very own community.

That, is even more amazing.

[Charming Anarchist]

The Scope of Conspiracy Seems Implausible" because it would have to include just about every person on the earth.

How is that a problem???

[Disgraced_Shield]

The Scope of Conspiracy Seems Implausible" because it would have to include just about every person on the earth.

How is that a problem???

Then....it ceases to be a conspiracy, and starts to become the entire world trying to play a trick on a few dozen people on an internet forum.

Damn. You got us.

[Charming Anarchist]

Damn. You got us.

No.  Somebody else has you and my guess is that you walked right into him. 

[Pete Svarrior]

Fascinating how 'your' trolls are shrugged off and kept around for shits and giggles apparently. Either that, or they're kept around as patsies for when someone gets close to shoveling through the drek that some of you consider science.

Dissenting opinion, however, religiously gets handed the often unfair moniker of 'troll' and gets run roughshod over.

I'm sorry, do you have any evidence to back up your claims? In what way have dissenters been "run roughshod over"? Are you suggesting that they have been banned? We can easily verify that. Are you suggesting that their posts were removed or otherwise suppressed? If so, why is no one complaining?

No. This is quite simple. You fell for the tricks of a troll, and you're upset that you became the butt of a practical joke. I already told you where to go to "unravel" all of our securely kept (read: widely advertised) secrets. Instead of doing so, you chose to go on an angry rant.

Your stone-throwing is amazing.

Son, you seem to have found yourself in a glass house. Moreover, you're projecting.

Take a deep breath and read this thread once more, calmly. If by the end of it you still don't understand that you shouldn't have listened to sandokhan in the first place, then you might just need to take the others' word for it. Note that even geckothegeek, possibly the most annoying and ignorant round earther on this forum, managed to get his head around this one. You're better than that. I believe in you.

You talk about reflection, yet have no idea what your backpedaling, personal attacks, and self-admitted trolling does for your very own community.

Backpedaling? Self-admitted trolling? You've got to be making this up. Yeah, I tend to be quite blunt with people who only come here to complain and who display absolutely no will to read our sources or engage in an honest debate - if you consider criticising your decisions to constitute a personal attack, then so be it. But, pray tell, could you provide any quotes of:

• Me backpedaling out of something I had claimed regarding FET?
• Me claiming (or "admitting") to be a troll?

You seem horribly confused about how the Web works. Every online forum in existence has its trolls. Most everyone on the Internet knows how to recognise them, and knows better than to feed them. I'm really sorry that you didn't get the memo, but since you seem to have completely ignored my advice regarding how to "unravel" FET, I doubt there's much I can do to help.

[Disgraced_Shield]

{yadda yadda yadda} ....Instead of doing so, you chose to go on an angry rant.

r u 4 srsly?

-Listen friend. Your voluminous retort to my post places you much more comfortably within the confines of a 'rant' than I was to begin with.
I've combed your sources, checked your links, read your FAQ, your wiki....all of it, yet here I still am, debating away. Why? Because it's genuinely interesting when I'm not fending off bush-league stabs at my intellect or trying to wade through convoluted indicators of how things seem to be done around here.

You tell me to read back. Now I'm going to ask you to do the same thing. You never said YOU were a troll, but you plainly said Sandhokan was. My question still stands- If he's a troll and not to be taken seriously, why is he allowed to run amok, further tattering the credibility of this entire community?

Perhaps his presence here is an indicator that yes, there IS a joke being played...and I fell for it. A lot of us did.

[Pete Svarrior]

Your voluminous retort to my post places you much more comfortably within the confines of a 'rant' than I was to begin with.

If it helps you sleep at night, sure, feel free to believe that. However, back here in the real world, there is a clear distinction between a long and thorough response, and a rant: a long, passionate tirade about how difficult it is to "unravel" our theory caused by nothing more than a single troll playing a joke on you is definitely a rant.

I've combed your sources, checked your links, read your FAQ, your wiki....all of it, yet here I still am, debating away. Why?

I dunno, but you must have done a poor job at reading up if you've managed to convince yourself that there's a RE conspiracy is part of FET (and thus that it has a scope, which may in turn "seem implausible").

You tell me to read back. Now I'm going to ask you to do the same thing. You never said YOU were a troll, but you plainly said Sandhokan was.

Yes. Well done.

My question still stands- If he's a troll and not to be taken seriously, why is he allowed to run amok, further tattering the credibility of this entire community?

Because this community is based around the principle of largely unrestricted free speech. Contrary to your claims, we do not "run roughshod over" people who disagree with us, so long as they follow the rules. They're welcome to play devil's advocate, or claim that we're wrong about things, or rant about "unravelling" and "voluminous retorts". They can discuss the Earth being round, flat, "dual", hollow; they can start a discussion on whether or not religious discrimination has its merits, talk about the finer points of equality/inequality in the United States, or speculate about whether or not cancer can be cured with lots and lots of garlic. Provided that they do so in the right forum and follow the other rules, their views will not be suppressed.

I appreciate that this might be a foreign concept, but them's the breaks.

Perhaps his presence here is an indicator that yes, there IS a joke being played...and I fell for it. A lot of us did.

Yeah, yeah, someone on Reddit explained to you what Poe's Law is and now you feel very smart. Well done. We definitely haven't heard this one before, especially not so many times that it's now the first question of our FAQ.

If you really struggle so much to tell apart serious posters from those who are having a cheap laugh at your expense, you're going to have a very bad time around here.

[Disgraced_Shield]

I'm not going to further the pissing contest. You think I'm an idiot, and I think you're a moron. Agree to disagree, now lets move on.

I've combed your sources, checked your links, read your FAQ, your wiki....all of it, yet here I still am, debating away. Why?

I dunno, but you must have done a poor job at reading up if you've managed to convince yourself that there's a RE conspiracy is part of FET (and thus that it has a scope, which may in turn "seem implausible").

Actually I've done a bit of reading beyond your own articles and material. That's how research works. I haven't concluded that there's a conspiracy in the least. However, the very nature of your community suggests that YOU (Perhaps not you personally, but the flat earth community in general) is convinced there is a conspiracy.

How exactly do you explain the conventional science of a round earth when the 'truth' is something only you and a couple of other people happen to know if there isn't a conspiracy to pass along false data or hide the truth? Without a conspiracy on some level, this entire thing comes unglued. If there's nobody keeping a secret, there's no secret. If there's no secret, there's no alternate truth.

_____

And for the record, I don't frequent reddit, and I'm not familiar with Poe's law. I am perfectly capable of drawing conclusions based on evidence presented to me.

[Pete Svarrior]

I'm not going to further the pissing contest. You think I'm an idiot, and I think you're a moron. Agree to disagree, now lets move on.

I'm actually giving you the benefit of the doubt - that's why we're still talking, despite your extreme unwillingness to participate. But anyway:

I haven't concluded that there's a conspiracy in the least. However, the very nature of your community suggests that YOU (Perhaps not you personally, but the flat earth community in general) is convinced there is a conspiracy.

How exactly do you explain the conventional science of a round earth when the 'truth' is something only you and a couple of other people happen to know if there isn't a conspiracy to pass along false data or hide the truth? Without a conspiracy on some level, this entire thing comes unglued. If there's nobody keeping a secret, there's no secret. If there's no secret, there's no alternate truth.

I already answered your question. You ignored it because, again, you were too busy screaming about your hurt feelings.

[Disgraced_Shield]

I'm not going to further the pissing contest. You think I'm an idiot, and I think you're a moron. Agree to disagree, now lets move on.

I'm actually giving you the benefit of the doubt - that's why we're still talking, despite your extreme unwillingness to participate. But anyway:

I haven't concluded that there's a conspiracy in the least. However, the very nature of your community suggests that YOU (Perhaps not you personally, but the flat earth community in general) is convinced there is a conspiracy.

How exactly do you explain the conventional science of a round earth when the 'truth' is something only you and a couple of other people happen to know if there isn't a conspiracy to pass along false data or hide the truth? Without a conspiracy on some level, this entire thing comes unglued. If there's nobody keeping a secret, there's no secret. If there's no secret, there's no alternate truth.

I already answered your question. You ignored it because, again, you were too busy screaming about your hurt feelings.

Friend, you haven't got a prayer of even being remotely able to hurt my feelings, don't flatter yourself. In my real life I deal with people who do their best to get under my skin with some of the most vile personal insults you can possibly dream of (and some you couldn't. They're very creative sometimes.) You saying I can't read or don't understand a link doesn't even tweak the needle on my feelings-o-meter.

Moving onward:

I don't like the link you supplied. I know you're going to pick that apart- but seriously. Condensed into a few short sentences here's what it says:

"NASA pretended to have a space program for political/military reasons. As for the shape of the earth, everyone already thought it was round, so NASA said 'yeah, screw it. It's round. Why not?'"

The link you reference essentially states that there's been NO scientific validation of a round earth, but this is based on the theory that the space program was a hoax.
So then. As time goes on, and the saviors of the intellectual world (flat earthers) start to emerge with whatever 'data' they're championing, NASA would have to do one of three things:

1. Come out and say "Hold the phone, it turns out the world IS flat!" 
2. Stay quiet
3. Lie.

They're not going to come out and admit the world is flat, since that would be an admission of a falsified space program.

They're not staying quiet, so let's kick that right out the door, since they supply photographs and other data which supports a round earth. (Legitimate, falsified, it doesn't matter, they're handing it out.)

If they're lying....brother, that's a conspiracy.

Essentially, if NASA is hiding a faked space program, they're hiding the shape of the earth IF it is indeed not round. It's a string of logic. By now, NASA doesn't THINK anything about the shape of the earth. They know what shape it is.

And if THEY don't, then you saying you do is completely preposterous.

Lets say though for a moment that EVERYTHING about NASA is a sham. That it isn't science at all, but a group of actors or whatever. Wouldn't THEIR silence be conspiracy?

So in conclusion:

A: NASA knows the shape of the earth. In which case either:
     1. They're lying about it. or:
     2. It's round.
B. NASA is a sham and made up of phony scientists, and has no idea what shape the world is. In this case:
     1. Someone's lying to the world.

If either A1 or B1 is the case, then you have a conspiracy, which in my book would quickly grow out of hand and beyond control, bringing us back to my original statements and questions.

If A2 is the case.......

[Pete Svarrior]

Friend, you haven't got a prayer of even being remotely able to hurt my feelings, don't flatter yourself. In my real life I deal with people who do their best to get under my skin with some of the most vile personal insults you can possibly dream of (and some you couldn't. They're very creative sometimes.) You saying I can't read or don't understand a link doesn't even tweak the needle on my feelings-o-meter.

"N-no, really, I'm calm. Allow me to explain just how calm I am. You see, I'm very calm. S-seriously."

Look, it's not even that I don't believe you, but it's absolutely hilarious how inexperienced you are at online discussions. Well, that is assuming you're not doing this deliberately.

I don't like the link you supplied.

Boo-hoo.

I know you're going to pick that apart-

At least you're prepared!

So then. As time goes on, and the saviors of the intellectual world (flat earthers) start to emerge with whatever 'data' they're championing, NASA would have to do one of three things:

1. Come out and say "Hold the phone, it turns out the world IS flat!" 
2. Stay quiet
3. Lie.

The answer you're looking for is 2 with a little pinch of 3 added for taste.

They're not staying quiet, so let's kick that right out the door, since they supply photographs and other data which supports a round earth. (Legitimate, falsified, it doesn't matter, they're handing it out.)

No, let's not kick that right out the door. Kicking it right out the door would be very silly. I already presented my case for it in the post you're responding to - NASA's funding is slowly, but steadily, being taken away. The whole operation is becoming quieter and quieter over time. They want out, but they can't quit cold turkey or people will start asking questions. This will be a slow process.

Essentially, if NASA is hiding a faked space program, they're hiding the shape of the earth IF it is indeed not round. It's a string of logic. By now, NASA doesn't THINK anything about the shape of the earth. They know what shape it is.

Your "string of logic" does not follow at all. There is no reason to conclude that they know what the shape is. Your logic therefore relies on a false assumption, and, as I'm sure you know, falsity implies all statements.

And if THEY don't, then you saying you do is completely preposterous.

Oh my. Perhaps you shouldn't have used the word "logic". You can at best say that you don't feel that we'd know if NASA doesn't know. I strongly doubt you can present any logical inference to back up your claim, but feel free to prove me wrong.

Lets say though for a moment that EVERYTHING about NASA is a sham. That it isn't science at all, but a group of actors or whatever. Wouldn't THEIR silence be conspiracy?

Yes. The Wiki article I've linked you to says this much. You could have just read it, you know.

A: NASA knows the shape of the earth. In which case either:
     1. They're lying about it. or:
     2. It's round.
B. NASA is a sham and made up of phony scientists, and has no idea what shape the world is. In this case:
     1. Someone's lying to the world.

Again, as per the Wiki article which you claim to have read (but obviously haven't), B1 is the case. There was no need for elaborate mental gymnastics to establish that - we state it explicitly.

If either A1 or B1 is the case, then you have a conspiracy, which in my book would quickly grow out of hand and beyond control, bringing us back to my original statements and questions.

And why would it grow out of hand and beyond control? Again, you present your feelings and not, as you claim, logic. Lying in show-business is hardly uncommon, and usually fairly easy. There are already multiple sectors of the entertainment industry which aren't exactly transparent about what they're doing. What is now known as WWE didn't publicly acknowledge its falsities for some 40 years of existence.

[Disgraced_Shield]

Personal attacks again. FE debate 101.
I sincerely hope I'm not the only one to realize how silly you're making yourself look. Keep picking at me though, if it'll make you feel better.

Your conclusion that there is no conspiracy regarding the shape of the earth is simply disregarding rational conclusions based on the data you're presenting.

Especially when you consider that a large portion of the FE community DOES believe there's a conspiracy to hide the shape of the earth. You alone reference the article above, whereas virtually every other flat-earth community member who responded to my initial questions offered debate supporting the idea of such a conspiracy that you deny exists. Consider too the OTHER flat earth communities on the web that speak openly about the academic conspiracy that predates NASA.
Plus the article itself is misleading, saying that there is no conspiracy to hide the shape of the earth, only the nature of the space program. It doesn't take very much effort to link the two, as I had before.

However, you can't bear to admit that there might be a gaping hole in your theory or precious article, and thus continue to run rings around me barking at my presentation and demeanor rather than my rebuttals to your argument. Thus, my assumptions are dismissed by you (and ONLY you) as being the result of a feeble mind and inability to read.

You sir, are arguing against me, the rest of the round earthers, a good portion of your OWN people, and the rational and logical conclusions which can be drawn from your precious link.

All I'm doing is reading said link, and interpreting what it says.

[Pete Svarrior]

Personal attacks again. FE debate 101.

Please back up your claims - point out at least one instance in which I attacked you as a person, rather than criticised your decisions, actions, or logic. If you can't do that, please take your claim back.

It's easily done when the tables are turned - you've outright called me a "moron" in this thread. Perhaps you're projecting again?

Your conclusion that there is no conspiracy regarding the shape of the earth is simply disregarding rational conclusions based on the data you're presenting.

Please back up your claims. Name your premises, and demonstrate logical inference between these premises and conclusions.

Especially when you consider that a large portion of the FE community DOES believe there's a conspiracy to hide the shape of the earth. You alone reference the article above, whereas virtually every other flat-earth community member who responded to my initial questions offered debate supporting the idea of such a conspiracy that you deny exists. Consider too the OTHER flat earth communities on the web that speak openly about the academic conspiracy that predates NASA.

I'm afraid it's entirely your prerogative if you choose to trust people you shouldn't trust. You haven't received all that many responses from regulars - most aren't as patient as I am.

Plus the article itself is misleading, saying that there is no conspiracy to hide the shape of the earth, only the nature of the space program. It doesn't take very much effort to link the two, as I had before.

You keep claiming that there's a link. You also keep doing absolutely nothing to substantiate it. Until you do, it won't be taken very seriously.

However, you can't bear to admit that there might be a gaping hole in your theory or precious article, and thus continue to run rings around me barking at my presentation and demeanor rather than my rebuttals to your argument. Thus, my assumptions are dismissed by you (and ONLY you) as being the result of a feeble mind and inability to read.

I'm happy to admit gaping holes when they're pointed out. Again, you've put no effort whatsoever into substantiating your claims. Your demeanour is the only substantial part of your posts thus far.

You sir, are arguing against me, the rest of the round earthers, a good portion of your OWN people, and the rational and logical conclusions which can be drawn from your precious link.

All I'm doing is reading said link, and interpreting what it says.

Once again - as soon as you're able to back your claims up, I'll be happy to entertain them. Stating them over and over and claiming that they're just "logical conclusions" is insufficient. The logical process needs to be demonstrated. Until then, I have better things to do than try and construct your arguments for you.

[spyderweb]

Good day. This is my first post, and I came here because I ran into a flat-earther (what do you call yourselves?) in another corner of the web. He claimed to have a truth that the rest of us didn't, and when I asked him a few questions, he vanished. He truly was not a great representative of your community. So, I came here to ask my question in the hopes that I can get a legitimate answer for what I think is the biggest piece of the puzzle.

Apologies if this is covered somewhere else- I did a cursory check before I posted this. If it is, please feel free to redirect me.

Let's say that the science you're citing holds water. I cannot debate any of that, as I am not well versed in science. I was a history teacher- which is where my question derives from.

If I am reading this right, The entire theory hinges on a global conspiracy. The world's governments have known your truth for centuries, yet it is kept from us. The 'why' is much less relevant than the 'how.'

Human nature has demonstrated itself to be fickle and unreliable any number of times. Entire generations have been devastated by wars started over minor political, religious, and social ideologies. Governments of many global powers have been toppled time and again by coups and revolutions. (Russian, French, American Revolutions to name a few) With the ebb and flow of governmental control, how do you think it is possible for such a conspiracy to have been protected from the masses for so long? How is it possible that an overthrown government which has caused much malice with its populace- able to convince an incoming power to keep such a secret?

The mere scope of the conspiracy alone seems implausible. Far too much seems to rely on far too many people for there to have not been (by now) some sort of massive leak- a major player in the global community coming forth to decree that everything we know is wrong.

In the age where we are starting to turn an eye to privatized space flights, why would these companies not be shut down immediately by governments for fear of exposure of such a secret? Instead of having them killed off, private companies seeking to go to space for commercial or tourist purposes are flourishing.

It is for THIS reason that I remain skeptical of the idea that the earth is a flat plane. There might be others- again if I were of a scientific mind- but I am not, so I focus on what I know, and I know that throughout the course of history millions of people have been killed simply for the name by which they call God...yet there is a global political conspiracy to hide the shape of the very planet these problems exist on?

I just have yet to be convinced.

Thank you.

The whole world truth is hidden from the masses. If you were part of a ruling minority then everything must be done in secret to keep in power. Once you show your hand you lose the control base. The statement 'Everything you know is wrong' is true because the truth has been hidden, continues to be hidden with lies that are repeatedly pushed at the general public through the media which are controlled by the 'elite'. This goes for the military, the 'health' profession and the armed forces. The earth is governed by the witches from 10,000 years ago by forming religions. The earth's population is controlled by the power behind the apparent power. The witches [poisoners] control the cabals, who control the cartels, who control the banks, who control the governments, who control the goyim. The goyim are the human slave work units, the so called people. So when you doubt that a global conspiracy exists you are playing into the hands of the hidden power. Traditional teaching of history is written by the hidden powers, the winners of wars that were engineered by the hidden powers. New science is also a form of religion unless everything stated as true is questioned. In my opinion, there is no room for belief, make your own mind up based on real evidence that is thoroughly researched personally. In my experience 95% of the information on the internet is misinformation created by the hidden powers. We are deep in the rabbit hole and need to dig our way back out.