481

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Amateur radio shows the earth is round

« on: October 30, 2018, 05:15:34 PM »

In the Merchant Marines we had a moto   "Acta Non Verba".   Catch you later. 

482

Flat Earth Theory / Re: What is actually the definition of this "zetetic method" Flat-Earthers use?

« on: October 29, 2018, 04:56:30 PM »

The problem is you can learn more & more about less & less until you understand everything about nothing, or you can learn less & less about more & more until you understand  nothing about everything.  The caveman could understand just about everything that was needed to know about the club that was used to obtain supper for him & his family.  These days people understand a lower & lower percentage of the technology of the everyday things in your life. There's nothing wrong having a healthy degree of skepticism, but mostly you just have to go with the opinions of the specialists who do a particular thing day in and day out.  To me it's almost like slavery, because I've always tried to 'know everything'.  These days I just know that I can't.  If you really want to dig into it, there are some reasonably priced MEMS accelerometers out there that you can buy that will allow you to measure the rotation of the earth.  Sure, the actual reading will be hidden in some noise, but after some filtering will be reasonably accurate.  Can you trust it?  You won't be able to see the actual insides of the chip.  You won't be able to understand a lot of the technology in it's construction.  You might not understand a lot of the math behind the filtering algorithm.  But does all this mean that the results are wrong?  There's nothing at all wrong with using some simple 'duct tape' and 'bees wax' tests where you can see and understand most everything.  I've certainly used that approach myself countless times for certain things, but you also have to believe in the serious limitations they impose as well.

483

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Distance to the Moon?

« on: October 28, 2018, 07:32:59 PM »

At the speed of light and with a distance to the moon of about 238855 miles you would expect a radio signal to return in about 2.5 seconds.  You don't really need a pulse, just a regular radio and an antenna with plenty of gain.  It doesn't have to be mounted on a big tower, you just have to point it at the moon.  If the moon is only 3000 miles away then the delay will only be about 30 milliseconds.  You would be able to hear with your own ears the difference in those two times and you would know for sure.

484

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Amateur radio shows the earth is round

« on: October 28, 2018, 07:20:49 PM »

It sounds like you have the longitudinal wave technology down pat.  Again, make use of that technology.  Design some microwave equipment, but don't try to sell it in the US.  As you said, only the military is allowed to use it.  Instead go to China, or better yet meet a Chinese agent in Thailand.  Don't let them steal your technology but get them to manufacture the equipment in Vietnam.  Then those items can be sold in places like Sim Lim Tower in Singapore.  I can then get a new longitudinal wave radio made by Baofeng in a shop there.  A few years ago I bought some radio equipment there that I still have. I just don't think I can reveal what it was.  Don't get left out in the cold.  Think like an international entrepreneur and put your ideas in motion.  Don't let the US government tell you what you can and can't do.  The power is in your hands and the time is wasting away.

485

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Distance to the Moon?

« on: October 28, 2018, 03:45:29 PM »

Using any reflectors on the moon would presume that there was actually a mission to the moon that has been deemed 'fake' by many on this site.  You don't actually have to use those reflectors at all.  Radio waves can be bounced off the moon.  Amateur radio operators have been using the moon as a reflector for a long time.  It's a straight forward process to send a pulse to the moon, then measure the time it takes to come back.  Since the speed of radio waves is well known, you can calculate the distance. Radars can also measure the range to the moon as well.   

486

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Amateur radio shows the earth is round

« on: October 28, 2018, 03:37:00 PM »

Well, it seems that lot's of folks have knowledge of things that could help mankind advance if only the government would let them.  Funny, I worked on navy ships for several years, and even held a secret clearance, but never ran across any of the kind of equipment you say exists.  Maybe I should just state that 'I can neither confirm nor deny that longitudinal wave equipment exists'.  I don't want to spill the beans.  Since the DOE is the only ones that can make use of longitudinal wave equipment, maybe the FET folks should start a political movement to get that changed.  You can count me out of that effort, however, I don't want to see a bunch of black SUV's with 10 antennas on the roof spooking around my neighborhood.

487

Science & Alternative Science / Re: The beliefs on this board...

« on: October 28, 2018, 03:07:03 PM »

See Tom Campbell's videos on the double slit experiment.  That's how I got started with his stuff in the first place.  His arguments are compelling.  It certainly appears that mankind can't have simultaneous knowledge about certain things because the software of the virtual world we exist in wasn't written that way.  I don't know whether to be afraid or comforted.  It seems that we all have free will, but everything is probabilistic and it's impossible to know 100% about anything.  I find the possibility of a virtual reality very interesting.  I've never been much of a video game player because it was addicting to me.  I started playing video games once and didn't do some important things that had to be done on time.  After learning my lesson I put the games away and never went back.  My only thoughts now are time spans.  Allegedly, mankind has existed for millions of years and has had a natural progression toward better and better things over that time.  If we are in a virtual reality the time perception of whose video game we are in must be a lot shorter, or they just can exist for an infinite amount to time.  One of the first video games out there was Kingdom.  I played that on one of the first commercial personal computers out there.  You set up all the variable about your 'Kingdom'.  Planted so many acres of corn, dug so many wells, spent some of your gold for weapons, and took some of your concubines out of the field and gave them certain other duties.  After you had all your variables set up the game would generate a random number and that would effect the outcome of your kingdom.  I remember something like 'the Huns would attack, a herd of locusts would eat half your field crop, wells would go dry, concubines would run off, ect.  You then had to analyze the new situation and reallocate all your resources.  Isn't that about what's happening on a continuous basis in the real world? 

488

Science & Alternative Science / Re: Do you trust your senses?

« on: October 28, 2018, 02:22:50 PM »

Yes, you have hit the nail on the head, so to speak.  If you ever played football and took a big hit you tend to 'see stars' and your hear 'ringing' in your ears.  That is exactly the 'woozie' feeling that I get much of the time.  The sounds in my ears clearly aren't real and my balance even on a flat earth is compromised.  I can't trust that I am level and have some difficulty standing up straight in a completely dark room.  Fortunately,  in my last years before retirement, I was at sea.  In 15 meter seas, no one on the ship could stand up straight.  See Psalm 107:23-30. 

489

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Amateur radio shows the earth is round

« on: October 28, 2018, 02:11:38 PM »

The possible problem with the UNKNOWN ether wind was solved by Michelson & Morley long ago, or so I thought.  Why would you ever mention anything about longitudinal e/m waves to anyone?  If the phenomenon exists then I'm sure that you can develop some radio equipment that uses it.  Long, long ago I borrowed money from my parents and started an electronics business.  Business was good and I paid my parents back and continued to operate that business for 23 years until I sold out to a much larger corporation.  I had the courage of my convictions and used my knowledge of radios to my advantage in business.  You can do the same with your knowledge of longitudinal e/m waves.  Clearly the majority don't believe that they exist.  That's a HUGE advantage in business.  You could develop equipment and get some patents.  Now is the time to have the courage of YOUR convictions.  Get out there and take advantage of what you know.  Don't let the ignorance of others hold you back.

490

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Amateur radio shows the earth is round

« on: October 28, 2018, 01:16:53 PM »

After reading the last post and all the technical literature, the FET folks should be well educated in the theory of microwave on the flat earth.  After working with that kind of equipment for 50 years I still believe that microwaves are limited by the curvature of the earth.  So do designers and manufacturers of equipment.   If the earth were flat then a microwave communications company could be started, equipment bought, bids won, and links set up and would be at a HUGE advantage over the existing old companies that insist that the earth is a sphere.   By all means, take that superior knowledge about the real form of the earth, and go out and make your fortune using that knowledge.  That is the dream of many.  Please, make it a reality. 

491

Flat Earth Community / Re: RE believers - why are you here?

« on: October 28, 2018, 05:33:29 AM »

In the case of microwave links, that are said to be limited by the curvature of the earth, you can have many radio amateurs (like I am) that will just try a link for the fun of it.  There isn't any money involved.  Many work for large companies in their technical department.  Many are owners of small businesses (like I used to be) and would gladly try something if they thought some money could be made.  There were a lot of people who thought that the V-8 engine wasn't a very practical idea until they were 'schooled' by Henry Ford.  Look at the controversy between AC and DC electricity.  DC was the accepted model and had Edison behind it.  Tesla thought that AC had outstanding advantages.  Guess who won over the long haul?  I can personally attest that even a small businessman can get the attention of a large corporation if he has a viable idea and can produce a working prototype.  Again, if the flat earth theory is viable, you don't really need a whole bunch of proof or scientific evidence.  What you need is a working prototype.  Turn it over to a large corporation and let them test it.  Of course you will have to protect yourself from them if they decide to steal your idea, but then, who can steal the idea that the earth is actually flat?   

492

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Amateur radio shows the earth is round

« on: October 28, 2018, 05:13:22 AM »

There are equations out there that show the effects of the environment and show the effects of the curvature of the earth on a microwave signal.  Other effects are the topology of the earth.  Inland, the earth is not anywhere near flat.  There are lots of hills, valleys, trees and tall buildings that will obstruct a microwave signal.  If you are putting up an expensive microwave link you always start off with a path survey.  It involves looking at the path with a topographic map and you won't even see the curvature of the earth on it.  The curvature is usually built into the software that used to calculate the estimate of the total path loss that you should experience.   Of course things change during the seasons of the year, you can have storms or foggy days, ect.  The amount of signal strength margin you have can then be used to get an estimate of the percentage of time you may actually loose the path due to all the variables.  Curvature of the earth is only one of many variables to be considered.  At least it is known and doesn't change.  Many of the other variables can change a lot.  There are university papers available in the internet that outline all the theoretical equations that apply to microwave signals.  Some equipment manufactures also have a certain amount of that kind of information in their manuals that are sometimes available on line for anyone to look at.  I know that I'm poking the bear again, but take a look at Exalt Microwave.  They have installed a microwave link with a total length of 146 miles.  Certainly, that is possible and an actual system is said to exist.  There are flat earth videos claiming that this link proves their theory.  Exalt is a known company and has equipment installed all over the US.  The link I mentioned is between Cyprus and Lebanon.  Both countries have some small mountains on the coast and the distance between the countries is mostly the Mediterranean Sea.   I haven't found anything that tells me just where the link antennas are located, but that distance still could be doable even with a curved earth if the antennas were high enough.  The videos said that the antennas were on 50 foot towers, but didn't exactly say just where the towers were located.  I did take a quick look at Cyprus and found a 600+ meter hill on Cyprus.  There is a communications company in that location and a 50 foot tower at that distance above sea level could work out fine, if there was another site on the Lebanon side that was about the same.  Anyone that's interested can easily see all the same stuff that I have.  You could even call Exalt and tell them about the Flat Earth theory, and get them to install a system for you between Chicago and Des Moines.  It would probably be a money maker if you could get it to work.

493

Flat Earth Community / Re: RE believers - why are you here?

« on: October 28, 2018, 04:23:13 AM »

I came across this site in my quest for learning more about quantum mechanics.  That lead me to a bunch of on-line videos.  Somewhere a long the way I came up with a link to this site.  The thinking here is interesting.  It has made me take a look at some of my old math and physics books that are still in my bookcase.  All I can say is that I will never be able to 'prove' anything to a biased jury.  I would never be able to prove to my wife, with just words, that I went to the grocery store.  If I produce that quart of milk and a receipt, that's the 'game changer'.  The game changer for the round earth folks is the engineering, products, and services that are in everyday use that were developed using the theories of the round earth.  If the flat earth folks want to make a real impression, then just use that theory to better what's being done using the round earth model.  There are things out there that are limited by the 'curvature of the earth'.  If that theory is actually false, don't try to prove that it's false, just develop a product or service that is demonstratively better because of it.  Put your theory into action and produce something of value.  Then you will get the attention of everyone and most of the arguments will go away and the believers will be flocking towards FET.

494

Science & Alternative Science / Re: There is no such 'thing' as energy.

« on: October 28, 2018, 03:57:39 AM »

I believe that mass and energy are just two different phases of the same thing.  You can turn ice into water and then water into steam.  You can turn energy into mass and mass into energy.  The equivalence equation is well known and has been verified.  Light is interesting, it's said to have no mass, but does have momentum.  It obviously carries energy.  I get sunburned and a solar panel generates electricity.  What I don't get on this site is the avoidance of the earth having any mass.  I can pick up a part of that earth (a rock) and throw it thru a window.  I impart a certain amount of kinetic energy to that rock and it then imparts a certain amount of that energy into the window upon contact.  Since a tiny part of the earth (the rock) has a tiny mass, then the whole earth should have a big mass.  That big mass should be convertible into a tremendous amount of energy.  All that happens in a fusion reaction.  Mass converted to energy.   Are there different forms of mass and the energy that it can be converted into?  Since the gravitation equation has only mass and distance in the equation something must be different about the mass of the earth vs mass of the stars for instance.  The stars are said to be responsible for the tides.  You have the mass of the stars effecting the mass of the water on the earth causing tides.  Why doesn't the mass of my body get attracted to the mass of the earth, that has the capability of carrying kinetic energy and can be converted to pure energy?  You should be able to dispense with UA and just go with gravity to keep us all on the earth.       

495

Science & Alternative Science / Re: Do you trust your senses?

« on: October 28, 2018, 03:19:47 AM »

I don't trust my hearing at all.  After an inner ear hemorrhage many years ago, I hear auditory hallucinations on a daily basis.  All my research on the subject, and confirmed by the doctors that checked me out, say that all the strange sounds are being generated by my brain.  My ear doesn't respond to sounds at all anymore and since all the normal auditory inputs are now gone the brain just generates random sounds.  It's maybe kind of like the process of interpolation where the brain is trying to make some sense out of nothing.  Kind of like I try to do here.  At least my 'disability' can be useful when communicating with my wife.  It's easy to claim that I didn't hear her say to 'take out the garbage'. 

496

Science & Alternative Science / Re: Chemtrails

« on: October 28, 2018, 03:06:12 AM »

Short wave length radars can see water droplets in the atmosphere.  On the last ship I was on, we had two X-Band radars and a S-Band radar.  The X-Band radars were very good at picking up rain showers.  They were also very good at separating out a large fleet of small fishing boats.  If a rain shower came between us and that fleet of small fishing boats, we could loose sight of them on the X-Band radar, but could usually switch to the S-Band radar and see them because you could often see thru rain with that radar.  Unfortunately,  the fleet of small fishing vessels would often just look like a large blob on the screen.  Both types of radars had their strengths and weaknesses, that's why we had both types installed.  I didn't know anyone actually still believed in chemtrails anymore.  Recently I saw a video of a formation of B-17 WWII bombers.  Guess what?  They also were generating the same 'chemtrails'.  I mentioned what I saw to an old WWII veteran who flew bombers in the Pacific theater in WWII and wasn't surprised.  Just think vapor trails. 

497

Flat Earth Projects / Re: Wiki - The Flat Earth Theory

« on: October 27, 2018, 02:42:22 AM »

The round earth theory provides for the gravitational attraction between the moon and the earth.  The wiki on this site shows the moon orbiting above the flat earth in a big circle.  I can see how the moon might keep it's distance constant by the UA force flowing around the sides of the flat earth.  That force couldn't be used to keep the moon in it's constant orbit.  To do that would require a vector component that was at a constant right angle to the surface of the moon and always pointed at the center of rotation.  You could also postulate some kind of force of attraction that could do the job as well.  In any event for FET to be believable you will need some theory that keeps the moon, as well as the sun, in orbit over the Earth.  It looks like the Sun would be an even bigger job because that orbit must vary in radius to account for the seasons. 

498

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Amateur radio shows the earth is round

« on: October 26, 2018, 09:34:21 PM »

It is known and has been observed by me that microwave signals arrive at the antenna on the ship I was on.  Since we were out in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, it was safe to say that there wasn't much else around.  I had a dish antenna pointed at a satellite that was believed to be in synchronous earth orbit.  That means that the path length was thousands of miles.  I could receive a strong microwave signal that was usable 24 hours a day.  Some attenuation was accounted for the atmosphere in the path.  Now the ship travels further away from that same satellite and the dish has to move further and further towards the horizon.  Eventually the signal strength falls off and becomes unusable.  At that point the microwave signal is going thru the maximum length of the Earth's atmosphere.  It isn't until the satellite disappears below the horizon that the signal is totally lost.  Transfer the whole thing to a land based system.  If the earth was flat you could easily postulate that the range of a typical microwave could be a whole lot farther than what is observed in the real world.  The average loss to atmospheric effects wouldn't be even close to what occurs when the signal has to dip over the curvature of the earth.  There are equations available that describe the sight horizon and the radio horizon. This can vary some due to the dynamic effects of the Earth's atmosphere.  If you could get everything to hold steady for a while you could get everything down to a 'gnats ass', but Mother Nature isn't so accommodating .  You can bet that there has been extensive research into the effect by both the microwave equipment manufacturers and universities.  If there was some way to get around the curvature of the earth problem other than building higher and higher towers the microwave businessmen would be all over it.  The accepted way is to use satellites, which is the only alternative for use at sea, but you have to hold on to your wallet, it's expensive.

499

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Heliocentric Speed Change Problem

« on: October 26, 2018, 07:11:44 PM »

It looks like everybody here as an education on Newton's 2nd law.  It really doesn't apply to the earth at all if, according to FET, the earth is not spinning.  You should feel the vertical acceleration force at your feet and that's about it.  It looks to me that Newton's 2nd law would be a critical factor for the moon under FET.   Acceleration is a change in velocity. Velocity is also a vector so acceleration could be either a change in speed or a change in direction, or it could be both at the same time.   Keeping the moon stationary over the flat earth requires a constant acceleration upwards (vertical relative to the surface of the earth).  Keeping the moon in a circular path would require a force sideways (horizontal relative to the surface of the earth).  What is the provider of that force?  The force must be there because you can see a constant change in the moon's velocity, AKA a circular motion. 

500

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Moons - How?

« on: October 26, 2018, 06:33:06 PM »

In getting back to the first post on this tread, I made a 'back of the envelope' calculation.  I assumed a 5 meter sphere with a mass of 2,887,881 kg, and a pebble of 0.005 meters radius with a mass of 0.00288 kg.  I came out with a force of gravity deflection of less than a millionth of a newton.  That would mean that you would never be able to see or measure anything given the conditions of your experiment.  In order to see the force of gravity you will need much bigger masses and more sensitive measurement instruments.