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Messages - JHelzer

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Flat Earth Theory / Re: Fake Photo Fest
« on: July 17, 2017, 09:41:04 PM »
Started this topic 5 days ago and only nunya has posted anything close to what I'm asking for, so let's talk about that.
I watched the posted video with the caption -NASA Confesses all images of the Earth are fake-

The video actually shows real images from the Apollo 17 mission that are unaltered single shot photos of the earth.  It also explains how the Blue Marble 2.0 image was created by Rob Simmons.  The video does a good job of explaining that this particular image was not created from light onto film, but from real data translated into an image.  I argue that it counts as a true representation of Earth base on the information given in the video.  I don't count that as fake.  It is a true representation of real data.

NASA videos like this, disclosing the the method of the presentation of the data, give me more confidence in the image, not less.  On the other-hand, the caption on this video gives me less confidence in the Flat Earth argument.  Is there a Flat Earth believer who watched the video and can share a counter point to my argument?  The Blue Marble 2.0 is not a real photo, but it is a true representation of real data. It is a true image.

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Fake Photo Fest
« on: July 14, 2017, 04:44:52 AM »
A word about composite photos...
Here is an example of a composite photo that I created today.

In this set of images I took the same picture twice; once with the ball focused and once with the background focused.  Neither picture captures a clear image of the ball and the surroundings.  But when I make a composite of the two photos I get a focused background and ball.  In some places around the ball I left a bit of a fuzzy halo and a little transparency on one of the fingertips.

To me this demonstrates that a composite picture doesn't have to be fake, or an invalid representation of reality.  In some ways it is a better representation of reality than what my camera can do in one picture.  Even though it is modified, it isn't a deception; it is an enhancement.  It is still a true representation even if it isn't raw. 

This is what I believe to be the case with the NASA composite photos of the Earth.  They are a collage of real photos, made composite with the edges smoothed out or sharpened, or the colors adjusted.  Yes, NASA altered the end image, but they didn't change the Earth from a flat disc to a globe.  The composite image still show a good representation of reality.

Flat Earth Community / Re: Satellites
« on: July 13, 2017, 10:14:32 PM »
I do not believe the NASA narrative, too many faked vids and pictures.

I've started a new topic to discuss the fake pics and vids.

Flat Earth Theory / Fake Photo Fest
« on: July 13, 2017, 10:04:22 PM »
I keep hearing about all the fake NASA photos and videos, but I've never seen one.
Please take this opportunity to post some official NASA photos and videos that you claim are fake.
Please post the pictures one at a time with the source and the reason for claiming that it is fake.
Let's talk about each one.

Flat Earth Community / Re: Satellites
« on: July 13, 2017, 09:34:57 PM »
Here's my theory on satellites:
I think that they are above us, BUT they orbit around the top of FE like the sun and moon.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on it and feel free to say your opinion on satellites

This image shows a problem with the theory that satellites move around like the sun and moon [and stars].  In this long exposure photo, you can see the stars "moving" all together, all the same speed, the man-made satellite moves much faster and at a different angle from the rest of the universe.

Here is an image showing that the moon also appears to move in line with the stars.

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Antarctic 24-hour sun cycle
« on: July 13, 2017, 04:57:15 PM »
Eh - no, it doesn't.   Some of the distances are better - but no, it doesn't reproduce real world distances to anywhere near a reasonable accuracy.

Agreed.  The only way to make physics work is if the Earth is a globe.  (Which it is).
That's still my favorite Flat Earth Map.

Flat Earth Community / Re: Satellites
« on: July 13, 2017, 04:53:05 PM »
  • I have tracked the ISS on and gone out in my back yard to watch it orbit over head.  (A bright dot moving across the entire sky)
  • I have watched the Space Shuttle launch on TV and then gone out at night and seen the ISS and Shuttle move across the sky.  (Two bright dots)
  • I have been to Edward's Air-force base and watched the Space Shuttle land with my own two eyes.[\li]
By the way the Shuttle landing was amazing.  Vapor clouds; sonic booms;  the Shuttle falls like a brick until if lifts its nose at the last second.  That thing can't fly, it was definitely in space for the week previous to landing.  This stuff isn't faked, I was there and saw it come in.

Now we have SpaceX delivering payloads to orbit and returning the first stage rocket 9 minutes after launch.  All with people watching with telescopes and live video.  Again, not faked.

Flat Earth Theory must adjust for the commercial space program being real.  It is too obvious that satellites are functional.  And as commercial spacecraft start seeing the same things out there that NASA saw, it also becomes apparent that the NASA space program wasn't faked either.

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Antarctic 24-hour sun cycle
« on: July 11, 2017, 10:47:08 PM »
How in the world does that map work? It seems like you could only use up to two adjacent single square sections at any one time. What goes on at the intersections of what I presume is the equator?

You are exactly right.  We have to use our imagination a little bit to make it work.
But that's the same with every FE map.

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Antarctic 24-hour sun cycle
« on: July 11, 2017, 09:54:11 PM »
So, the answer to my question on whether there is a decent map is apparently no.

This is my favorite map.  It makes the southern hemisphere flight times work.

It seems to me that you [Tom Bishop] enjoy a certain degree of authority among the flat earth believers on this forum, so it is remarkable if you and the wiki disagree in such an important question.
It seems to me that the flatness of the Earth is only a secondary concern to Tom - or rather it is merely a consequence of his primary belief.  What I have observed Tom's primary argument to be is... The Earth is not a globe.  Not exactly sure what it is, but it definitely is not a globe.
(Tom, please correct me where I am wrong)

Flat Earth Community / Re: The Wall
« on: July 11, 2017, 09:09:02 PM »

Flat Earth Community / Re: Moon and Sun Angles Don't Line Up
« on: July 11, 2017, 08:43:15 PM »
Nobulart, your shadows on the 3rd (woman on the beach far right) and 4th pictures (awning shadow far left portion of the house on the right) do not line up with the sun, how can we trust that the lens distortion ... or whatever... isn't so bad that drawing a line from point a to point b on any of them are true to life representations?

I printed out the picture and bent it into a semi-circle.  Bam!  The sun and the woman's shadow lined right up.  I also domed the sky and cut up a line of sticky notes. Bam!  The sun and the moon's shadow line right up. 

Following the horizon from the moon to the sun isn't the only straight line between them.  The one that bisects the moon is the true straight line in 3D space.  The rest are illusions.

Here's a pic...   (my dome cutting was off a little, but it's really close  ;))

Flat Earth Community / Unsouled -Will Wight
« on: July 08, 2017, 03:36:44 AM »
Dear Flat Earth Society,
I just started reading Unsouled (Cradle Book 1) by Will Wight and found a quote that I thought you all could appreciate...

Quote from: Will Wight
The foundation of any Path is learning to accept the world as it is, not as you wish or even observe it to be.

I thought of you when I read it.  Enjoy.

Flat Earth Community / Re: I Made a 1:1 Scale Model of flat earth
« on: July 06, 2017, 10:52:31 PM »
I'd like to see what the sun and moon look like when they travel overhead or nearly overhead and then away from the observer on your model.

I'd like to see an attempt at this too.  As I imagine the moving of the Sun on the Flat Earth model, I can never figure out how it could possibly work.  This 3D rendering shows how it doesn't work.  It is possible to make a model that actually looks like the real Sun on a typical day?

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Easy proof of a round earth
« on: July 06, 2017, 10:43:24 PM »
The space program climate has changed since the Flat Earth movement started.  It isn't just NASA anymore.  Low Earth and Geosynchronous orbiting vehicles are now dominated by commercial satellites.  The function and use of these satellites are not controlled by NASA.  Rocket launches are becoming more frequent and more publicized.  SpaceX has succeeded in changing the rules for access to space and I believe they are just getting started. 

GPS systems are on our phones while they sit in our pockets.  The Flat Earth Society is fascinating, but the NASA (and now multi-national governments) conspiracy theory aspect of it is collapsing. 

The globe-based technologies surrounding us actually work.  When rockets, satellites, dishes, and phones are designed to work as if the Earth is a globe, and they start working, it means the Earth is indeed a globe.

Doesn't your criticism then apply also to all flat earth theories? ... Aren't you in the same boat as the astronomers when you offer flat earth explanations?

I have to agree with Nirmala on this.  Tom Bishop has done an excellent job condemning the basis of Flat Earth Theory.  Namely that the bulk of Flat Earth thought is based on observations and thought experiments, not on actual Zetetic laboratory experimentation.

Flat Earth Theory / Re: How do flat Earth-ers deal with this issue?
« on: July 06, 2017, 01:56:07 AM »
At the exact moment that the sun sets in the West horizon for person A, it also rises on the East horizon for person B.   This is an endless chain that occurs throughout the planet.   

With a spherical earth model, the reason this happens is obvious.  However, (unless I am misunderstanding your theory), the spinning pancake model definitely does not explain this.   

How does the spinning pancake flat earth model, (or any other flat earth model), explain this?

To answer your question directly, look at the picture below. 
Imagine Person A is standing in New Zealand and sees the sun setting as it moves away to the West.  At the same time, Person B could be in Egypt and the Sun is rising as it approaches from the East.

Flat Earth Community / Re: Mind = Blown
« on: July 06, 2017, 01:22:54 AM »
I'm brand new too, but have been reading for a while.  I am fascinated by the whole Flat Earth idea even though I can't make any of it work out for me in real life.  I am definitely in the round-earth camp, but have found this forum to be a ton of fun.  I'm here to share my genuine observations with a goal to keep it respectful and polite.  Good-day to you all.

Flat Earth Theory / Re: For the love of all that is holy, read this.
« on: July 06, 2017, 01:03:16 AM »
I'd just like to point out that the true curvature of the Earth is visible in all the weather balloon videos out there on YouTube.  It is true that the camera lens is distorting the horizon across the screen from left to right, but that isn't the only curving of the Earth in these pictures.  In all the videos you can see that the Earth curves away from us into the distance.  If the Earth was flat, we should be able to see hundreds or thousands of miles away into the distance as we rise higher.  Instead we always see the edge of the Earth in a sharp line as it curves away from us.

This screen shot at 6:16 from the video posted above shows the horizon from left to right looking as if the Earth's curve is concave.  We all know that is not correct, it is a lens distortion.  However in this same image, we can see that the Earth curves away from us into the distance.  It is very clear that anything moving away from you would fly out and down around the bend and out of sight as the Earth curves away.  Every balloon video that I've ever watched on YouTube shows this same thing; even the ones claiming 100% proof that the Earth is flat.  As I look at them, they all show camera lenses distorting a picture of a spherical Earth curving away out of sight.

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