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Messages - Tron

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Flat Earth Investigations / Re: The Blatant Lies of National Geographic
« on: September 14, 2022, 09:37:34 AM »
So far photographing objects in the distance are beginning to look unreliable as to whether its physical in nature or a refracted image.

Leaving waves and perspective aside, its clear that sometimes depending on the weather ships and other objects will sink beneath the horizon or in front of it as is the case with the Nat Geo experiment.
 Objects will also remain level with the horizon or even float above it as is the case with "Superior Mirages"!

When the air is hotter at the surface and cooler above it, it can bend images down and produce a sinking ship effect.  When the air is cool at the surface and gets hotter going up, then images can be bent upwards and appear to float above the horizon.

I suppose the real disagreement is about the nature and affects of refraction. 

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Evidence of the firmament
« on: September 13, 2022, 09:32:52 AM »
Hi Jonny,

Here's a few links to the Wiki which might help you get started....

Gernerally speaking, the atmosphere on a flat earth is made of the same layers of gases as seen on a round earth (troposphere, mesosphere, stratosphere) etc... These all stack on top of one another and form domes within domes as there edges curve towards the ground near the edges of earth.  Each of these domes has a "firmament" or boundry layer called Tropopause, Mesopause, Stratopause, etc...) 

I'm not sure what contains all of these layers to earth generally speaking, except perhaps ice.  Space is freezing cold, and that would naturally form a layer of Ice along the edge of the outer atmosphere to hold it in. 

Technology & Information / Re: T minus 30 minutes - Artemis Mission to Moon
« on: September 03, 2022, 06:42:24 PM »
 :P  it'll happen

Lol,  ;D

Nevermind... The launch was scrubbed because of cooling issues in the tank or something.  Friday might be the next window, i'll try to update.

Technology & Information / T-minus 10 hours - Artemis Mission to Moon
« on: August 29, 2022, 11:58:09 AM »

Edit:. This video explains the mission, flight path, and duration etc.  17,000mph and crazy altitude gains in the first few minutes.

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: Automatic Logout while submitting a post
« on: August 03, 2022, 04:40:35 PM »
Stack your right...  The Back button will retrieve your draft before and after you login again.

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: Automatic Logout while submitting a post
« on: August 03, 2022, 04:09:30 PM »
Edit:  I made sure spell checker is on for windows 10 by going to Settings - Devices - Typing - and clicking on the spell check options.  I can get a small box with recommended words but only if you scroll over each word and its not helpful. 

Stack - the back button doesn't help me either :(

It's okay though, I have other options as you guys pointed out.

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: Automatic Logout while submitting a post
« on: August 03, 2022, 11:12:31 AM »
 I do that to.  It also helps with spell check, which I don't think Is a feature here? 

I just read Job again after a few years.  The first time I read it was very comforting in a difficult time.  The friends that visit Job are very kind.  I would just take Gods original conversation with Satan at face value - the point that Job is faithful no matter what.

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: Automatic Logout while submitting a post
« on: July 31, 2022, 09:04:11 PM »
Okay, that sounds good thank you.

Suggestions & Concerns / Automatic Logout while submitting a post
« on: July 31, 2022, 08:51:01 PM »
Is there any way we can dely the sign-out process while someone is writing a post?   Or at least save the post as a draft once a person signs back in?

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Theory that Black Holes are Land Mass
« on: July 31, 2022, 12:15:06 AM »
Stack I'll try to make a visual sometime later to clarify..

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Theory that Black Holes are Land Mass
« on: July 30, 2022, 08:31:41 PM »
When looking at earth from space, the southern hemisphere will look almost twice as big and the upper northern hemisphere small compared to the visual you'd have of earth if you removed the atmosphere.  But, because RE measurements add miles to the south and subtract them from the north, total area I don't think is too different so earth is still a reasonable reference point from space.

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Theory that Black Holes are Land Mass
« on: July 30, 2022, 05:47:17 PM »
If an area is difficult to directly measure, then maps and everything that goes into making maps are the next best thing.   And earth itself is probably the best frame of reference from space because its dimensions are generally understood.

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Theory that Black Holes are Land Mass
« on: July 30, 2022, 03:00:19 PM »
You accept that the JWST is real, is making observations of the cosmos and was launched from earth into space.  But everything about that process like all space launches was calculated on the standard (RE) model of the solar system which you claim is completely and radical wrong.   If JWST is real then the earth is round.  You can't have it both ways.

I acknowledge within the "flat earth" system many of the distances are different then in the standard RE model.  But many of these distances are measured without a good frame of reference.  Planes see lots of snow when going fast around the world. The ISS sees lots of water going around the equator.  And spacecraft see a lot of space.

I accept the standard RE model is adequate for day to day travel needs.  But considering new ideas I have faith will lead to greater understanding and will benefit society. 

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Theory that Black Holes are Land Mass
« on: July 28, 2022, 07:54:44 PM »
I'll try to answer a few of your questions sincerely.

I honestly think over time as observations become better along with telescopes like the James Webb, then we will see our orbit and position around the Milky Way is similar to Dwarf Galaxies.

I'm not sure why we measure stars and galaxies larger than I believe they are.  I just don't believe we can see objects light years away.  Or that light can travel that far... 

As to my claim "earth sits beneath the sun" it is misleading.  I was trying to seperate earth from the sun and its orbiting celestials.  My rendering is not to scale.  The best pictures of our solar system are obviously from space.  The earth and planets look so small from satellite images far away it's not worth me posting them but here is a link from the Voyager 1 spacecraft looking at the solar system from VERY far away. 

What's interesting is how small the earth looks!   But when you remember only a certain portion of  earth is illuminated during the day and the atmosphere literally halves the image it looks like every other planet.  Another reason other large land masses like earth aren't detected in neighboring galaxies, until black holes came along.

I can try to offer you my FE Theory on Celestial Orbits.  I went into this before during our moon orbit and Apollo landing conversation, but basically objects orbit around the sun (besides earth) because the sun creates powerful winds that circle it in upwards of a million miles an hour.  And obviously the large mass in the middle of galaxies is the large world. 

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Theory that Black Holes are Land Mass
« on: July 28, 2022, 04:49:15 PM »
Hi All,

I've updated the image at the top of this thread to better explain my theory. 

I'm aware traditional science holds we are living in a small solar system within the milky way.  One of trillions of stars.  I'm suggesting that even though our world developed in the milky way, eventually we branched off and became a dwarf galaxy like our neighbors.  

Then what are the stars?   I don't believe galaxies or stars are as big as everyone says they are.  Like my image suggests, I think earth is relatively big and sits below the sun.  Planets and asteroids all orbit the sun and account for everything we see in the sky.  The Sun is the only "nuclear" object in the sky for which everything rotates around - except earth.  Other Galaxies have their own primary sun or bi-nary star system in the center which has planets, asteroids, and accreditation disks orbiting them as well.  

We are an "Island Universe" to ourselves.... stars included.

I think this answers most questions about earth's location. the size of stars, galaxies, etc...  Some asked what compelling data do you have that explains your model to observations?

First, Flat Earth Theory...   Over the years, many people have developed an earth model which matches observations....  I don't need to go into that.

Second, Other phenomena within galaxies that I think our own "system" can explain are Fermi Bubbles.  Huge plumbs of hot gas above and below a galactic plane as seen in purple.  I think these are what we on earth call the "Heliosphere" created by the sun emitting heat.  
Third, Relativistic Jets are another phenomena earth could explain.  Huge rays of light sometimes shine from the center of galaxies above and below the plane.  I believe Earth's Rotation can twist magnetic field lines up into space and the Sun's light illuminates it.  I don't think we can observe this from earth but Earth has the mechanisms to explain them.

Fourth, obviously Galaxies spin.  Earth and our Solar system also spin. 
Fifth, the first images of Black Holes show in my opinion the Radio Signature of an Aurora...  Very powerful electrical and magnetic events that fit well in the model above - even the twisty magnetic lines are shared between earth Auroras and Black Hole "aura's".  OhPlease - if the Chandra x ray radio telescope imaged earth's auroras I think you'd see the same images as a black hole almost exactly in size and shape. 

Lastly, scientists have speculated there is a large mass at the center of each galaxy holding everything into its orbit.   Naturally they assumed it was a traditional star system with a massive star in the middle.  However, flat earth theory can also explain celestial orbit and account for the large mass in the middle.

I could go on, but I would rather answer any specific questions if you have them.  

Flat Earth Theory / Re: HF Radio Signals, Propagation and DX.
« on: July 28, 2022, 11:59:56 AM »
Years ago, while living in the USA I could occasionally hear Russian stations using CW (morse code) with a definite echo in their signal.  If you used your beam antenna and turned it to the North the signal would peak up.  You could also rotate the antenna 180 degrees and again it would peak up.  Clearly there was a short path signal and a long path signal.  One signal coming in via the shortest path on a globe earth and another signal from the same station but coming in from the opposite direction from the longer path around the globe.  One signal would be delayed from the other because of the difference in distances and would produce an echo.  This kind of phenomena wouldn’t be possible on a flat earth. 
The sunspot cycle doesn’t make it easy to observe this kind of thing these days but will improve in the future.  Unless the FET can show how electro-magnetic waves can be bent around in a circle in the horizontal plane the theory is deficient.   

Ron - I mapped out your location in the US when you heard transmissions from Russia (see map in previous post). Keep in mind this is a South Centered FE Map.

I can't explain why you heard transmissions from the north facing antenna faster and without an echo.  I'd think a more direct signal would be received from the south?   :'(

I also don't assume that signals on a FE would bounce off the Ionosphere and into space.  All the layers of the atmosphere are curved with higher altitudes as you approach the equator (that's RE confirmed).  So, maybe the Russian transmission took a different bouncy path to your location?  Not sure if they can follow circular paths around the dome or what not. 

Flat Earth Theory / Re: HF Radio Signals, Propagation and DX.
« on: July 28, 2022, 11:41:10 AM »
Hey JCM, thanks for the reply.

So, my thoughts are :

1. I don't see why on a FE the bounce would make more sense? On a FE you wouldnt need to, you could aim your signal at the "horizon" and your away, no need for angle of attack at all.

2. Bouncing around the globe is based on the fact the layers within the atmosphere are also round, and thats where the bouncing occurs. (Read : " ), 

3. Bouncing generally only affects HF and below. Satellite signals are generally in the GHZ range and require line of sight to work. 1575.42 MHz for GPS for example. Those signals, if sent from the ground would simply penetrate straight into space.

So here's another example of how we know this happens. When working modes like FT8 on HF, i'm in the UK and my signal was being received in Australia, and Iran, all sorts. But people in Scotland cant hear me. Neither can those in London, and the signal passes directly over them (in the F or E regions of the atmosphere, not at ground level). Hence the curve :)



Edit : So here's a quick propagation report based on stations receiving my signal this morning.

Signals again received in Australia... but shot directly over everyone else?

Kev I made this map which represents the signals received from your UK transmission.   It looks spherical like what you might expect from line of sight transmission on a flat earth, but i'm not sure why they didn't pick up your signal further north.   

The US/Russia Station transmissions on this map are to address Ron J's observations..

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